₦airaland Forum

Krayola:
Its a pointless exercise.

Blow-hard? how did you get that impression? You seem to be the one on a mission. . .

He is on a mission to let you know that his own religion is not man made when all he has as evidence to show that his religion is not man made is a book that was written by men(his god did not write any part of the bible), redacted and edited by men, put together by men who chose what was the word of god and what was not the word of god through votes and yet this same religion is not man made .

KAG:
Well, let's first start with the assertion that A can analyse and define her beliefs within the concepts of scientific knowledge, etc. I honestly doubt that's an accurate assessment of the theist's position in regards to gods. The allure - and flaw - of gods is that when scientific evidence that is falsifiable (c.f. empirical evidence) is asked of or for them, the theist is able to reside or hide behind the claim that his or her god is beyond the scope of humanity; essentially, that the god or gods are transcendental - sometimes, even impossibly beyond transcendent. It all belies what you claim.

In any case, on to B. What is the scientific evidence for the non-existence of gods? There isn't any per se. What can be pointed to instead is the existence of alternative, empirically based theories and concepts that could help us understand the existence of humans sans gods. With that B doesn't need to accept "Goddidit" as a viable reason for her existence.

As far as the intellectual goes, though, there are several arguments - some more satisfactory than others. The problem of evil is a firm favourite for many when informed of the supposed existence of an omni-max deity like the Christian one, thus one can present the argument so neatly summed up by Archibald McLeish in JB: "If God is God, he is not good/ If God is good, he is not God/ Take the even, take the odd"

For me, since simply pointing out I just don't believe any gods exist is enough for most people, I'm more content with just pointing out the glaring contradictions in the characteristics and actions of their gods, and the inanity in the dogmas they espouse. For instance, then, to use the Christian god again, the inherent philosophical contradiction in presenting YHVH as both immediately immanent and transcendental is one to which I may point.

KAG. Are you a hermaphrodite . You are now a male? Excellent post by the way.

Mad_Max:
You must have been devastated. "Things became clearer to you"? How? You don't have to answer that, of course. Did you leave Christianity for the same reasons you left Islam? Why did you convert to Christianity in the first place? What did you want,while you practiced it, from that religion? What did you want it to do for you? Obviously, it failed you in this regard.

Things became clearer to me when I realized that all religions are just an assumption and part of man's quest in providing answers to the unknown. Life is very complex, so man in his quest to find answers decided to create a divine entity or divine entities (usually in his own image) to help him provide answers for that which he does not know or can not comprehend. I converted to Christianity becaue my Mum convinced me that Jesus was God while Allah was the devil. . Her and her sisters will prayed for me, went with me through biblical verses that talk about Jesus being the greatest source of love and kindness and juxtaposed it with koranic verses where Allah talks about kill, kill and kill the unbelievers(Now I know it was all a charade because Allah is even better than the OT God if you think I am lying then read the Koran and read the OT, by the way there are other parts of the koran that talk about love too). I never really wanted Islam to do anything for me, all I wanted was for Allah to protect my family, and friends and to protect me from the powers of Shaitan and it never really failed me. I got what ever I "prayed" for and Allah really "protected" me. I was a lucky child because my dad was very much "blessed" by Allah and Allah "made" a him very rich man. So Islam had never failed me at all. I was convinced that Islam was not the way to eternal glory and happiness. My mum and her sisters tried to make me see things their own way which I did and it made perfect sense to me at that time. The only thing I wanted God to do for me as a Christian was to reveal himself more and more to me, protect me, my family and friends and try to give me the joy/happiness the bible talks about that is found in Jesus.

I know you know religion has two kinds of adherents: those who chose it because it reflected their true spiritual identity, because it spoke deeply to something hidden in them. And those who had religion thrust upon them; it was the family religion and they believed what everyone else believed. Most of us fall into the last category,and many are accepting of this and continue to be blind,indoctrinated mice to the end of their lives. At some point we should question what has been thrust upon us,reject it, and then seek our true spiritual identity and the religious philosophy within which it flourishes. It might turn out to be the religion of our parents after all, but this time we would know what we believe; it would be our choice. It might be another religion entirely. If one religion has failed you,does it mean ALL religion has failed?NO. If a segment of a religion has failed,has that religion failed?NO.

This depends on how you define religion. Religion is mostly a tradition, you can only asses every religion based on what it teaches and how its adherants practice that which it teaches. You can asses if Christianity to see if it is a failure by going through the bible which is what the religion is all about to know if it's teaching and assertions are true. The same to can be said of all religions. If you want to know if any religion is true all you need to do is examine the scripture it presents as the backbone of the religion and see if its assertions are true.

I was born Catholic and practiced that impressively solemn,futile horror of empty religious ritual until I couldn't stand it anymore and hated religion. It was easy to conclude that was the Christian experience, and abandon that religion. I did. But after a while I started searching again. Did Catholism fail me, that beautiful,utterly lifeless,ritualistic,pseudo-religious monster?YES!!! It has failed many and turned them from God,like it did me. It's very good at that.Did that mean Christ, and by extension Christianity has failed? Absolutely not. Religious institutions are human institutions, and sometimes when men fail we think it is God that's failed. Er, NO.

Are you trying to tell me that Catholics who are the greatest sect(in terms of number) in Christianity are not Christians? They believe in the bible don't they? They also believe in the trinity, heaven and hell, and most of the teachings of Jesus. The bible was put together by Catholic bishops so what are you saying? The Catholics have done much more to preseve Christianity more than any other sect of Christianity. They fought wars and killed so many to make sure that Christianty gained dominance. The fact that you do not agree with their teachings does not mean that they are not Christians are adhering to the teachings of the bible. They use the bible to defend their religious practices. The basic problems here is that Christianity like every other man made endervour has evolved but the Catholic church(like Islam) is still stuck in the past.

And yet Catholism has many indoctrinated devotees: I can't comment on the genuineness of their religious experience because I don't know it, I only know mine,which was empty,zero,nothingness. I do know that God is merciful and ignores many of the artificial human constructs,like 'denomination'', that separate us. In spite of the fact that I had different experiences with different segments of Christianity, Christianity is one. The divisions of which much is made, are mostly unimportant differences in biblical interpretation. In the essentials,all of Christianity is in agreement: Christ is the way, the truth and the life. All else is plain silliness.

Christianity is not one and it has never been. Even the bible is not one, there are different types of the bible with different translations and different messages. I will advice you to visit Syria, Ethopia, Israel, Marcedonia, Greece and see the very different type of Christianity they practice. I have been to Greece and i was SHOCKED when I saw the type of Christianty they practiced over there.(Greek Othordox Church). It was really an eye opener for me. There is no universally acceptable Christian doctorine and there never was, a little history about the faith will show you that. It has alway been conqure and destroy, Those who had the power pushed their own theology forward and destroy the theology of those who they had defeted. Either through war or through the strength of ideas.

And yet,and yet:dead emptiness while practicing Catholism,which is within Christianity, the emptiness going away when I departed from it. And aliveness and wholeness now, and within the same Christianity I was so eager to give up after being let down by a segment of it.

OK, nice to know that your new found faith gives you happiness.

Perhaps something similar happened when you were a Christian.

I was very comfortable with my sect of Christianty(I was a protestant), I left Christianty only after going through the bible which is the back bone of the faith itself and realizing that most of what it asserts or says is not true. For example most of the authors who we believe wrote the books of the bible were not the people that wrote them. Most of the stories were transfered from generation to generation through oral tradition until they were later written down by scribes and assinged names to them. A lot of actual history was changed to make the Jews look good that is why their accounts differ greatly from other historical accounts that we have. They Jews wrote down their own history from a very baised point of view. I left Christianity after going through the bible, knowing its history and how it came about amongst other things.

If the bible is truly the word of an all knowing God then all what it says must be true, it should not contain historical accounts that are inaccurate. It should not contain scienctific accounts that are inaccurate and all its assertions (like miracles) should be demonstrable for ALL to see, not for some hidden few like pastor adeboye who claim to have travelled for more than 300km on an empty tank, because when Jesus and the prophets in the bible were doing their miracles they did it for every body to see. Is that what we see in the world around us. NO. Last year I was in Nigeria and my Mum's younger sister had Ovarian Cyst. 2 days to her surgery we were all adviced to fast and pray for her. On the day of the surgery they spent about 30 mins praying for her as she was about to be operated upon inside the operating room before the doctors came and told us to go out and let them do their work. I looked at all the very sophisticated machines inside the surgery room and inside the hosiptal in general (national hospital in abuja) and said to myself, if any body in this world truly believes that there is a God that heals people when they pray to him for healing when they are sick non of those machines will ever be there. If there is ever a God that heals people when you pray to him my aunt(who is a born again Christian) will not go to the hospital to undergo that painful experince, she will sit at home and pray to Jesus to heal her. If there is ever a God that protects those he loves who pray to him for protection against harm she will not even be infected with ovarian cyst in the first place. Religious reality is very different from the reality we see happening around us.

Christianity(and all other religions) is good because it makes people happy and gives them hope and comfort. Personal religious experince are good as long as it is personal. What I do not like is when religious people go around disparaging others for not believing in what they believe to be the truth through FAITH. That which they can not even defend of provide any evidence for.

JIL:
@bindex
The funny thing about atheists is that they donot have the capacity to understand deep spiritual matters. Giving you an answer to the above is like forcing an ant to understand the answer to the Poincaré Conjecture. The answer that is within your capacity to understand is that my God created you, your parents and all your relatives.


WORD OF THE DAY: Save the world from insanity, convert an atheist today.

You call it deep spritual matters and I say it is a deep delusion. OK I agree that your god created me anything more?

duduspace:
It is you who need to put a book of psalms on your chest and ask someone to fire at you to see if you can recreate that unique set of circumstances that led to the deflected bullet. We attribute his survival to luck and chance but you attribute it to god.

The guy was just plain lucky, did you see the guy a derailed train ran over in Turkey about 2 months ago?

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/us_world/2009/03/05/2009-03-05_turkish_man_survives_freak_collision_bet.html

He had no bible on him and that happened in a muslim country.

When good things happen every body is quick to point out that jesus did it, but when bad things happen it is either the devil or something else. I know a Chinese man(atheist) that was shoot in the chest and survived, was it jesus that protected him too? . What about the countless numbers of christians that were killed in road accidents on their way to evangelize? does jesus not love them?

JIL:
Atheism is not only the greatest of evils, atheists are the most foolish of mind. Even a common fool realises that everything has a maker or creator. Look around and see if you can point out at anything that is not produced or made by somebody. According to atheist, simple and everyday things like coke, toothpaste, omo, cigarettes, guilder, clothes, shoes etc are made by someone or a group of people represented by a company but the majesty of the heavens, the stars, sky, planets, sun, beauty of the sea appeared from nowhere. BULLSHIT. There is something these guys are smoking that we don't know of yet.

OK if every thing has a creator then your god should also have a creator, no?

@ dalaman

This only shows that the bible is very contradictory. It says one thing in one part and says something else in another. In one part is says that the knowledge of god and how he operates can not be understood by man and then turns around and say that come let us reason together says the lord in another different part. The book was never peer reviewed to make sure that it had a consistent message, that is why we have every body creating his/her own god using the bible and each person that creates a god and doctorine out of the bible uses the same bible to defend his own position.

davidylan:
Oh my my . . . this dude is seriously confused.

did not that same bible say - occupy till i come?

So you mean the bible simply wanted us to just sit down fixing our gaze on the sky, refuse to go to school or earn a living?

But Paul and even simon Peter had jobs that they did on the sides apart from their evangelising. Paul's friends were wealthy businessmen and women . . . remember Lydia?

lol Dalaman makes me laugh . . . he's probably going to accuse me of "trying too hard". I wonder why many of these clueless "christians" dont try understanding the scriptures first before launching into meaningless tirades.

You weren't able to refute any of his the arguments he presented all you did was just do your usual dance around and claim victory by declearing that he does not understand the scriptures, without even showing him how he doesn't understand. Wasn't it the same paul that was busy telling people that the end was immenent and very close? In the espitle of peter it is written that "the end of all things is upon us" Paul in his letter to the Corinthians, talks about"time we live in will not last long,For the whole frame of this world is passing away."

What kind of Job did paul have? Was he trying to know anything about gravity and the distance of the earth from the sun? Was he encouraging people to know more about the origin of life or how to get to the moon? So because paul had a Job that means the bible encourages people to find out more about the cure to diseases and how to prevent natural disasters like tsunamis and earth quakes eh? Does the passage in colossian that tells Christians to aspire to the realm above, where Christ is, seated at the right hand of God, and let their thoughts dwell on that higher realm, not on this earthly life. Sound like anything that encourages the research and the need to know the origin of life or the component of the rainbow and how the sun operates? does your bible not claim that knowledge comes from god alone?

The bible teaches people to distrust and renounce their reasoning powers. This is seen in both the Old and New Testaments. As dalaman has stated in describing the vast superiority of divine thinking over human thinking, the bible proclaims that the thoughts of the bible god are not the thoughts of humans and neither are his ways the ways of humans,For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are his ways higher than that of humans ways, the bible says the bible god's thoughts  are not the same with human thought thoughts. Hence people are NOT expect to understand God's methods by such declaration. Now I know you are going to come and tell me that this also encourages man to seek for the origin of life and know how the forces of nature function.

The bottom line is that the bible is against secular knowledge and claims that the bible god is the only giver of knowledge.

Ecclesiastes says that "God giveth to a man that is good in his sight wisdom, and knowledge
Proverbs conveys a similar lesson by saying "the Lord bestows wisdom and teaches knowledge and understanding."
James assertsthat "If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God, that giveth to all men liberally, and upbraideth not; and it shall be given him. But let him ask in faith, nothing wavering."
Proverbs says that "The first step to wisdom is the fear of the Lord, and knowledge of the Holy One is understanding."
The Psalmist writes that God's "commandments are mine for ever; through them I am wiser than my enemies. I have more insight than all my teachers, for thy instruction is my study; I have more wisdom than the old, because I have kept thy precepts." The writer also says the "Lord's instruction never fails, and makes the simple wise."

So instead of using science to gain wisdom, people are encouraged to rely on and depend soley on god to provide and give them wisdom and knowledge.

ThiefOfHearts:
Cant be bothered to read thru the thread however

Did bindex ever reply to David's rebuttal?

Yes i did.

Tùdor:
''Who cares''
classic response of an intoxicated man. . . .even in face of the lies and contradictions of your religion,you choose to remain drunk.
Sweet dreamzzz dude. . . .

Paul said that Timothy should take medication for his stomach ache, Jesus said that people should pray with faith and he will heal them if they believe. I thought the message of Jesus is all what davidylan says is in the bible? Why is he now talking about Paul?

noetic2:
I have noticed the new trend now: You ask the atheist/naturalist/humanist/disbelievers/muslims to defend their belief and they start running from pillar to post . . , . .bringing up irrelevant postulations, . . . . . pathetic.

How have you defended your own faith?

davidylan:
=
But that is your own opinion. you dont know what was of utmost priority in the mind of the bible writers. If they had to write down EVERYTHING you expect to find in the bible we'd probably need a truck to carry it to church on sunday.

Wasn't it men that sat down and choose what they believe was the word of god that should be included and what was not through votes?

JeSoul:
No it doesn't, thou speakest of what thou knowest not.

Read the bible, again. When God told people to have faith, whenever Jesus taught about belief in God, whenever we see a declaration of faith, it is always accompanied by an action.
 
 Christianity & the bible teaches to pray and act. Not just pray as some falsely insinuate.

JeSoul my best Christian on Niaraland.  . I knoweth very much what I speak. I don't believe that you have put it correctly when you say when ever there is a declaration of faith in the bible it is always accompanied by action.

I tell you the truth, if you have[b] faith and do not doubt[/b], not only can you do what was done to the fig tree, but also you can say to this mountain, 'Go, throw yourself into the sea,' and it will be done. If you believe, you will receive whatever you ask for in prayer. Matthew 21:21:

Therefore I tell you, whatever you ask for in prayer, believe that you have received it, and it will be yours. Mark 11:24:

"Truly, truly, I say to you, he who believes in me will also do the works that I do; and greater works than these will he do, because I go to the Father. Whatever you ask in my name, I will do it, that the Father may be glorified in the Son; if you ask anything in my name, I will do it.

These verses do not talk about any action at all, all it says is that Christians should have faith, believe and whatever they ask for through prayers, it shall be given to them.

JeSoul:
Tragic waste of life due to ignorance and a misunderstanding of scripture.

The bible is so much more than black and white and religious superstition. They should have[b] prayed and given the girl a transfusion[/b]. Its cases like this that gives non-religious heads the stones to insult religion.

If prayer works I don't think you would have ever advised them to pray and give the girl a blood transfusion. Why give her blood transfusion when prayers is supposed to "work wonders"? doesn't the bible say that prayer alone is enough?

ugo_2u:
@davidylan

you have tried to best, waste not your energy on these sceince cowards, they say the universe was as a result of the big bang, what caused the big bang? You say evolution is the key why hasnt giraffe,lion, tiger and others learned to build mobile phones, cook food and wear clothes, where did they say the sun moved in the bible? Read it well ok, the king wanted the sun to move some degrees back, but did he know how it happened? Joshua commanded the sun to keep still and it did, did it say how? Man must kill himself to know what is, why,  Blah,blah,blah,

Here we go again with the senseless rants of another wannabe descendant of Abraham. I am sorry to tell you that most of the Christians i know here in Europe believe more in the big bang that in the creation accounts of genesis. The creation accounts is only believed by the mostly ignorant Christians who do not know much about how the forces of nature operate. Sorry but more Christians believe in evolution than atheist, go figure it out. You wannabe descendants of Abraham never read your bible at all.

Ecc 1:5 The sun rises and the sun sets, and hurries back to where it rises.

What is this nonsense drivel about Joshua commanding the sun to keep still?

Everyone is not God's own so you dont expect everyone to believe in Him, but if you do, treasure it and leave them to their science, after all God never bothered Himself about scientist and atheist, so why argue?

OK we don hear anything more?  

in their hearts there is a vacuum that is meant for God and deep down they know it but try miserably to explain it with sciene but the fail because God is a spirit and only a recreated spirit can understand Him.

Can you use your recreated spirit to help us understand the science behind the Jacobs genetic engineering model or the science behind the bible which says that the sun moves from place to place?  

Tùdor:
If you feel you're the type who likes fairy tales and loves to subscribe to delusional/psychotic bullshit, in addition to being a professional HYPOCRITE then christianity is the religion for you. . . . .
On the other hand,if your sexual fantasy is to sleep with four women at once, fancy pedophilia,are hot blooded/bloodthirsty and your life ambition is to become a living F-16 bomber JET, look unto islam.
Whatever tickles your fancy dude. . .

Nicely put.

davidylan:
Whence did these sons of belial start using science to camouflage their own ignorance? Exactly what science is toneyb talking about?

What do these wannabe descendants of Abraham actually know about science. Toneyb is talking about the science that has advanced the world to the extent that you and him can communicate over thousand of miles through a wireless network. 

What does he know about science? How has science explained the miracle of the sun, moon, stars and earth? How has science explained how chance could have so intricately designed the eye with its complex ability to focus to objects of varying distance at the speed of light?

Can you see how blind faith is making you sound very desperate and stupid? How is the sun a miracle? Science has more than explained what the Sun is, how it functions and what it consists of. Science has explained the size of the sun, its distance from the earth and other planets, and the gases that make up and constitute the Sun. What is your biblical explanation for the sun? A miracle that moves from place to place? Is that not what your bible says? . The bible says that there is nothing in the heavens that does not feel the heat of the sun but thanks to science we know that this is wrong becaue there are so many parts of our universe that do not feel the heat of the sun.

What about the Moon? The eyes, how it functions and what it is made up of. What is the biblical explanation for how the eye is able to focus on objects of varying distance and speed? How did you get to know that the eye has these abilities, did you know it through science or through reading the book of Jonah? through science we have come to know that there are different types of eyes(Pit eyes, Simple eyes, Pinhole eye etc ) We also came to know how images are formed in the eyes, eye defects and how to cure them. What are the biblical explanations for eye defects? The bible shamelessly says that evil spirits cause blindness.

How has science explained how chance could have given us a brain that allows me to type on my keyboard without making an ounce of effort to lift my fingers? how does science explain how a tiny organ like the hypothalamus could control almost all my involuntary activities?

The reason you got to know about the hypothalamus and how it functions is because science has told you that. What does your bible say about the brain and how it functions. Do the writers of the bible know how the brain functions? If they did why then did they say that people reason and think with their hearts? Is there any such word as brain in the bible, do the writers of the bible even know that humans have a brain? Do they know that all the complex activities of reasoning and function is controlled by the brain? Why are they always referring to people reasoning with their hearts? Do people reason with their hearts as the bible puts it?

Has the fool ever wondered how you can lift a leg simply by thinking about it? Does this fool ever wonder why the sun didnt fall out of the sky just by chance or the moon failed to show up for an entire yr because it got stuck on another planet?

In your haste to display that you have some little knowledge of science you ended up discrediting your self entirely. Has the bible ever explained to you the action behind motor neurones? What does your bible have to say about the sun and how it is positioned in the sky? I will urge you to read the book of psalms in your bible to see how the "divinely inspired" writer displayed his ignorance of how the sun operates. Everything you know about the moon you know through your knowledge of science not through the bible.The bible says that God makes two lights "the greater light (the sun) to rule the day, and the lesser light (the moon) to rule the night." But the moon is not a light as science has shown, but only reflects light from the sun. And why, if God made the moon to "rule the night", does it spend half of its time moving through the daytime sky?

How has the planet survived for billions of yrs and essentially remained the same BY CHANCE? How did chance engineer homologous genes in yeast and as well in man? How can we knock out a gene and then put it back into a cell and have it function just as normally? why did chance give us 2 eyes, ears, and nostrils ALL PERFECTLY DESIGNED IN THE EXACT SAME WAY? How did chance give us the power to walk on two feet but denied that right to the cow?

Thanks to science we now know that the planet is billions of years old, your fellow bible trumpeters are all over the place telling us that the planet is only about 10,000 years old based on their calculations from the bible. All we know about genes and how they function we know through science. What have your own bible got to say about genes? Your bible says that showing striped sticks to goats while they mate help them produce multicoloured offspring? What kind of nonsense is this? Care to explain how this genetic engineering feat can be archived? You haven't explained how your own god has given us two eyes and nostrils. By the way the eye is not perfectly designed. The Genesis 1 creation account conflicts with the order of events that are known to science. In Genesis, the earth is created before light and stars, birds and whales before reptiles and insects, and flowering plants before any animals. The order of events known from science is just the opposite.

Do these fools who love to trumpet the goodness of science (even though they probably only managed a D in their science classes) understand what they are talking about?

Do you retarded wannabe descendants of the mythical Abraham have any science that really works in you so called "holy book of knowledge"? Thanks to science and how it operates we now know that the entire creation narrative in Genesis is just a senseless drivel. How has you" God did it" hypothesis ever explained anything. If were were to go by your" god did it" delusion, would we have been able to provide cure for diseases, protect our selves from some natural disasters  and know more about how the forces of nature operate? As some other poster has pointed out there is very little science in the bible and all of the little science it talks about has been discredited by the conventional science. In your haste to defend the indefensible you only helped in totally discrediting your self.

No2Atheism:
1. What do you believe, since you do not believe in big band and evolution.

2. Please try and answer the questions that you have answers for, unless you do not answer for any of the questions listed.

3. Your adequate response is awaited.

I believe in naturalism and by that I believe  that the world is a closed system where nothing out side of the world life super natural forces affects it. I believe in secularism, and I also believe that all gods were created by men to help them solve the pesky probelms that is associated with life and all its vagaries. Toneyb said and I agree that religion is the outcome of man’s struggle with natural phenomenon that is why there are so many religions all over the place. I might not know how we got hear but I KNOW for sure that I did not get here because a Jewish deity created this world with all the people in it as vegetarians initially before Adam and Eve ate the friut of knowledge. I do not know how we got here but I know that the entire creation account in genesis 1 and 2 are not true.

davidylan:
science of the bible? How can the science of the supernatural be the same as the science of the natural?

Science of the supernatural or science of the ignorant? Was it your all supernatural who said breeding animals by striped sticks produced striped offsprings ? supernatural science indeed. Or was it your supernatural science that says that evil sprits cause diseases?

Pls have you responded to no2atheism or is this the usual "dodge anything that forces us to acknowledge our own illogicality"?

No2atheism has not asked me any question, I have already told him my position, I do not believe in the big bang or in evolution if he has questions he can ask those that believe in them and are defending them I am not one of them.

davidylan:
But you have no scientific evidence for your own claims. Dont we all get bored of illiterates talking up "science" all the time?

What are my own claims? We are tired of illetrates that claim to know how science works but when you ask them a simple question about the science the bible they are defending asserts they shout its a miracle. deluded goons

No2Atheism:
@bindex

1. Please explain the big bang theory to us in simple english.

2. What principles does the big bang entail.

3. What is evolution, please define.

4. Which evolution are you talking about. (is it Cosmic Evolution, Biological Evolution, Macro Evolution, Micro Evolution or Geologic Evolution).

5. Since you know so much about Genesis 1 and 2 can you please describe to us which World it is the those verses was talking about.

6. What is a Narrative.

7. What is a Fact.

8. What is Speculation.

9. What is repeatable Science.

Your simple and non-insulting response is highly appreciated

Thank you.

Why are you asking me all this? Aren't you on the internet? There are a lot of materials about evolution and the big bang on the internet. I said they are more plausible than the drivel we have in genesis 1 and 2 which makes absolute no sense and which you have NO scientific evidence for.

davidylan:
You dont know how nature works either. The best you seem to be able to do is scoff, we cant seem to get any tangible stuff from many of you blowhards.

Of course I don't but i have never asserted something about nature that is completely false the way the bible did. The bible claims to know how nature works but says things that are naturally incorrect.

davidylan:
i never hear you demand "scientific evidence" of the ridiculous claims of how the earth appeared here. Even if you were to get these evidence i doubt you'd be able to process it. Many of you have no idea what science is all about . . .

The reason is that all the claims are all ridiculous to me as you have said (both religious and scientfic claims). But if I am to choose i will rather choose the scientific explanation than to choose the explanation of ancient people who thought that the god they created in their own image lived up in the clouds and is afraid of men building a tower that will reach him up in the sky. When we ask you to explain to us using your knowledge of science some of the biblical assertions you begin to shout that it is a miracle as if that explains anything.

davidylan:
this is pure bogus grammar. It makes absolutely no shred of scientific sense. What "design of natural regularity" is this? Why did nature create just one sun for the entire earth and multiple suns for others? How did nature just "design" the earth such that it is JUST right for man:

1. Why do we have an oxygen concentration of 21% in the air but not 100%?
2. How has the moon maintained one single course over billions of yrs?
3. Why hasnt nature gone berserk and made drastic changes to the earth such as would place man in serious peril?

Why do you tell me to go to nature to learn then call me absurd when i ask you to go to the bible to learn? Is nature not a more abstract term?

Who is nature? where is she? Can you prove that she exists?

Does the bible really know how nature works? What is there about nature than can be learned from the bible? . Do the writers of the bible know that the oxygen concentration is 21% in the air? What is there to learn about nature in a book that says the sun moves from place to place or that evil spirits cause diseases?  

No2Atheism:
LMAO some people would not kill me with the logic process,

@bindex

1. Please explain the big bang theory to us in simple english.

2. What principles does the big bang entail.

3. What is evolution, please define.

4. Which evolution are you talking about. (is it Cosmic Evolution, Biological Evolution, Macro Evolution, Micro Evolution or Geologic Evolution).

5. Since you know so much about Genesis 1 and 2 can you please describe to us which World it is the those verses was talking about.

6. What is a Narrative.

7. What is a Fact.

8. What is Speculation.

9. What is repeatable Science.

Your simple and non-insulting response is highly appreciated.

If you bother to read my post you will see that I clearly stated that the theories are more plausible than the creation accounts we have in genesis 1 and 2 that have NO evidence to support them and go against what we see in the natural universe. I do not believe in the big bang or all the types of evolution that you have listed, but their assertions are much more plausible than the ridiculous drivel you have in your bible. The bible creation accounts should have some scientific evidence at least don't you think so?

JeSoul:
Wisdom in the most simple of statements. Let he who has ears listen.

You should expect the creator of the sun, the clouds and the oceans to tell the people that wrote about how he created them to know to also tell them correctly how they function but instead we have the bible saying that the sun moves from place to place. Which is factually wrong.

BlueDiva:
I don't know how people can say there is no GOD.

Just thinking of the clouds, the sun, the stars, the ocean is enough to know there is a supreme being.

Its that simple, how did this things come to be?
Forget the evolutionary theories, the big bang stories.

It could only have been the hand work of a supreme being.

Have you ever bothered to read about the big bang and all the principles it entails? The evloutionary theory is much more plausible than the creationist drivel that is written in genesis 1 and 2 which Christians do not even agree with and are always providing one excuse or another for it, because it stands contrary to the facts of what we see around us. The fact still remains that the world in which we live in was not created according to the narrative in genesis 1 and 2. The bible was talking about a different world not the one we find our selves in.

Duduspace, How are you doing out there? Hope you are good.

davidylan:
Infact the bible makes a bold prediction - Daniel 12:4 But thou, O Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book, even to the time of the end: many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased.

We more of an explosion of knowledge in the last 100 yrs alone compared to the entire 5900yrs prior.

In the last 100 yrs we learnt to fly, went to the moon, pitched our tents with the stars, developed digital warfare, high tech medicine, computers and robotics. We developed electricity, harnessed the power of the winds and waves and have developed weapons capable of wiping out entire mankind in less than 10 minutes.

This deluded apologist goes into his bible picks a passage that has nothing to do with our present world or society and says here here, the bible made a prediction. . its a shame that our dear apologist is reaching out to the already discredited book of daniel that has ALOT of wrong predictions, a book that is FULL of historical errors to try to say that his bible had already made a prediction.   .

C-NOETIC:
false. what science doesnt know it calls "big bang".  it uses "may" "could" "might" to describe its short fallings.

Science is man's approach to answering pertinent questions about every day life. It does not contradict the existence of GOD.
At least no one has been able to scientifically establish the non-existence of GOD.

have/can you?

Where is the evidence for the existence of the god you are talking about? Where is your scientfic evidence for the existence of your god?

this "issue" has been addressed on several occassions on nairaland. ur disdain for superior argument is depriving u from learning.  

what are the genetic contradictions of genesis?
how can u acsertain that the sky will not fall when Jesus returns?

Haven't you read about the Jacobs genetic engeneering model in the book of genesis? Do you really believe that the stars can fall into the earth? Are you for real?

OLAADEGBU:
See these atheists (especially Huxley and bindex) quoting Scriptures and interpreting them, do you want to read what Peter said about such futile exercise?

"As also in all his epistles speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction." -- 2 Peter 3:16

Peter did not write 2nd peter, the epsitle is a 2nd centuary forgery but that is for another discussion, You do not know the context in which the writer of the verse you posted wrote what ever he wrote.

What was toneyb's simple question? His question about blaming God for every disaster that has happened has been answered by the link I suggested. And for those whose computers have the problem of linking up I will endeavour to answer it in another way here.

I don't know if you answered toneyb' questions but I asked you if it was your all knowing god who said breeding animals by striped sticks produced striped offspring but you didn't even bother to answer it.

Hurricanes, tornadoes, floods, droughts and earthquakes kill tens of thousands of people each year. A lot of people endure debilitating diseases, endless suffering and pain. Some of you atheists credit Mother Nature for giving us all this grief but you fail to remember that the so called Mother Nature has a[b] Senior Partner who is the Father God.[/b]

If you look at the bible you will see that jews wrote the old testament and 'god did' (baby murder, wars, famine, natural disaters etc) was what they thought. Back then, jewish philosophy did not take into account secondary causes, in other words, anything that happens, good or bad, happens because 'god did it.' Human free will is not taken into account- one does something evil, he did it because god wanted him to do it and that was how they wrote most of the old testament. They een have god hardening people's hearts to make them do evil or go against his will so that he will punish them.

That is how they wrote their book- god did it. The old testament spans roughly 4000 years. now all the horrible things that are listed in the bible that supposedly 'god did', are spanned across 4000 years, meaning that those 'horrible deeds' were scarce and far apart, on top of that, take into account the aforementioned 'secondary causes' and the notion that alot of those things probably were just as natural as the many horrible things that can happen today.thankfully, today we know that everything that happens has a natural cause and reason for its happening. do you think that for some odd reason 3000 years ago, god had more control, more of an impact on the human world? no,Things were the same then as it is today, same wars, same horrible things like earth quakes, floods, and hurricanes that happened then are still happening today, even if not in the same sense or scale. We just now understand more and know more that things have a reason and natural explanation for their being. Ancient jews wrote the old testament. They narrated it in such a manner that places god as the head ventriloquist of the whole human scheme but their narration is terribly flawed

However, if God is an all loving Father figure, as we are told, we seem to have three choices:

[list]
[li]God blew it when He made everything[/li]
[/list]
[list]
[li]God is a tyrant, who gets His kicks from seeing kids die of leukemia[/li]
[/list]

[list]
[li]Something between God and man is radically wrong.[/li]
[/list]

Those who take time to consider the evidence will choose option three. Which is something between God and man is radically wrong, and the Bible tells us what it is. There is a war going on. We are told that mankind is an enemy of God in his mind through wicked works:

What evidence are you talking about here? So mankind is the enemy of God in his mind through wicked works? Why do you keep saying all this nonsense? Has any god ever told you that or did you read it from some where? We are told by who? your fellow men who thought that the sun moves from place to place?

"And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath He reconcilled" -- Colossians 1:21

This is not too difficult to see. Man is continually committing violent acts such as murder and rape, lying, stealing, etc., as the daily news confirms. He uses God's name as a curse word, while Mother Nature gets the credit for His creation unless there is a horrible disaster, it is only after this that they would call it the Act of God.

You have forgotten that your own god told his chosen men to, rape, lie, steal and murder others. Do you guys read the bible at all? or do you read it without your sense of reasoning?

An applicable acronym for WAR is We Are Right. If civil war breaks out in the Niger-Delta region today it will be because every faction has the belief that they are right. However, a quick look at God's Moral Law shows us who is right and who is wrong. We, not God, are the guilty party. If we want His blessings back in our nation and in our lives, we must make peace with Him, and that is possible through faith in Jesus Christ.

Do you know what faith is? Faith= "Mental acceptance of and confidence in a claim as truth without proof supporting the claim." I rest my case.

mazaje:
how do you know this? the other time you once labelled wirinet's relatives as "not truly saved" without ever knowing any one of them, now you are falsely asserting that my man bindex was never really a christian. What connection do you have with the father that other christians do not? davidylan is the only guy that knows christianity and is connected with the father eh? deluded goon

Davidylan believes that he alone knows what it means or takes to be a Christian. As far as "really being a Christian", that is such a cliche argument that it is almost unbearable to hear it. he believes that his view on Christianity is the only true one, and he believes that he very right that there is no way you could understand Christianity as it was meant to be understood and change your mind. 

toneyb:
@ Bindex

Theist are very funny people . I have a friend who left Islam about a year ago, All what her Muslim friends had to tell her was that she was never truly a Muslim because if she was one she would never had left the faith. The same rubbish davidylan is throwing at you is the same thing they were throwing at hear when she came out. Why is it hard for theist to accept that people no longer believe in all the make belief,feel good and lalala tales of their faiths?

Lalala tales indeed. Tales by moonlight.