₦airaland Forum

haddeylium:
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The Bible shows the event that will occur to show that we're in the last days or the end of the conclusion of things

Consider
War on a large scale.​—Matthew 24:7; Revelation 6:4.

Famine.​—Matthew 24:7; Revelation 6:​5, 6.

Great earthquakes.​—Luke 21:11.

Pestilences, or epidemics of “terrible diseases.”​—Luke 21:11

Increase of crime.​—Matthew 24:12.

Ruining of the earth by mankind.​—Revelation 11:18.

Love of God growing cold in most people.​—Matthew 24:12.

displays of religious hypocrisy and false religion on large scale.​—2 Timothy 3:5.

*Global preaching of the good news of the Kingdom.​—Matthew 24:14.*

There will simultaneous fulfillment of all these prophecies
Matthew 24:33 [b"Likewise also you, when you see all these things, know that he is near at the doors."][/b]

Wow! I love the fact that you use scriptures to back you stance up.
Haddeylium sir, you said we are in the last days, right?

shadeyinka:
The questions may be rhetoric but illogical and senseless.

God is the Uncaused First-cause of everything.

Your question is like a car asking a fellow car how many litters of Engine oil and Petrol a human being consume per annum and at what mileage do they do their turn around service/maintenance.

Alright. I just posted something, is it consistent with the Word of God?

haddeylium:
Is that how you define 'not forsaking meeting/assembling together'-
You can meet and assemble : just only on social medias
How about people that don't have access to this platform?

My examples were sufficient enough to cover every situation and every cases.

How did Jesus' apostles and early christain understood this instructions?
The disciples of Christ associate with fellow believers. They're organized into congregations that meet regularly for worship. (1 Corinthians 16:19) and they form a world-wide brotherhood (1 pet 2:17)

One of my examples covered this.

Yunno, it's hilarious when you mentioned you congregate with others denomination with different doctrines.
Would Jesus that teach that his disciples to have this same line of thought be happy about this?
"that you should all speak in agreement and that there should be no divisions among you, but that you may be completely united in the same mind and in the same line of thought."(1 cor 1:10)
How comfortable are you with people that worship the truine God?(which you attest to be unscriptural)

only religion that is based on truth leads people to God. This truth is found in the Bible. (John 4:​24; 17:17)
Religions whose teachings conflict with the Bible is not from God and it steer people away from him.
Teaching like the Trinity, immortality or eternal toment.
So,Worship that promotes such teachings is “in vain,” or useless, because it replaces God’s requirements with religious traditions.​—Mark 7:​7, 8.
Yunno, I commend people that change their religion in search for truth. It shows how undogmatic they are.
But, what if the search of the truth is not over yet?(like Apollo that needs more teaching)
How can you recognize the true religion?
What fruits does the true religion and false produce?

Sir, we will discuss this in detail in a jiffy. Please answer my question
Are we really in the last days?

MuttleyLaff:
I sense you aren't after any answers if you are asking rhetorical questions then, but I'll indulge you

1/ God is the first and last cause. He is the Alpha and Omega, the Beginning and the End. There is. nothing ever created, that is not created by Him. God is Self Existent, meaning nothing and no one created God

2/God is Omni know everything. There is nothing hidden from God's know or knowledge. You seem to be trapped in the trinity box, that is why you are asking all these incongruous discordant or irreconcilable questions

3/ God is trinity and more. God is infinity. God is unknown number of persons. Now watch this Blabbermouth, as God has infinite power, if God should create a being higher and greater than Himself, instantly God becomes a being higher and greater than the being He's just created higher and greater than Himself, and we are back to square one and an endless loop

4/ God knows there is no other being stronger, mightier and wiser than Him

Thank God, we are one here.
Many people will agree that God is Omnipotent, Omniscient, Omnipresent and all. While that is true, there is something we must put aright or else, we might Cross that Line.
God is cannot be limited by Trinity, no! In fact, He cannot be limited to a person. Nothing except 1 thing can limit God, the only thing that Limits God himself is God's nature.
God is omnipotent but he cannot Lie! (the scripture says so!)
God is omnipotent but he cannot be unfaithful (the scripture says so!)
God is Omnipotent but he cannot fornicate! (No believer will say otherwise!)
Humans however, even though we are nothing close to being omnipotent can easily Lie, easily be unfaithful and fornication na smalls.
God's omnipotence cannot exceed his nature! Therefore God is omnipotent as long as it is within the confines of WHO HE IS, beyond His nature, God is not omnipotent!
So the popular atheistic question of - "If God is omnipotent, can He create a being greater than him" is answered automatically without any loophole. Who is God? God is the Most High! Creating a being Higher than him will mean we now have a new Most High, and thus, God is no longer who he is (God forbid!). Like I said, God is omnipotent but only within the confines of his own nature (Who He is!)...
Maximus69, ShadeYinka and Sir MuttleyLaff, do you believe this true and consistent with the word of God?
Now, let's talk about Omniscience and knowing the future.

ShadeYinka and MuttleyLaff, I will like to ask a set of rhetorical questions:
1. Does God know who created him?
2. Does God know who can kill him?
3. Can God create a being higher and greater than himself?
4. Does God know any being stronger, mightier and wiser than him?
I know my answer is the same as yours but I don't want to be too forward.

shadeyinka:
No sir, you are the one not seeing your logical errors

Your claims:
1. God CANNOT see the future BUT He can Only Predestine and Make things to be.
2. The apparent Foreknowledge of God is based on this Predestination.

Where did I make this claims?! Hey sir, I've not claimed ANYTHING since the beginning of the thread.

My claims:
1. God IS ABLE to see the future (in real time) AND He Only Predestine and on the basis of what He has seen the person do.
2. The Foreknowledge of God is INDEPENDENT of His Predestination.

Example Inevitable Consequence of YOUR CLAIMS:

The summary of what you've said is that
1. God predestined you to commit fornication so that He can claim a foreknowledge of it and there is nothing you could have done to change it.
2. God gave a command "don't commit fornication" even though He knows that he has compelled you by predestination to commit fornication.
3. God is waiting with his rod of judgement to you for doing exactly what he has predestined you to do.

Does the three points above paint the picture of your God?

Example Inevitable Consequence of MY CLAIMS:

The summary of what I've said is that
1. God foreknew that you commited fornication BUT you could have changed what God would have seen by your present Choices. (If you chose NOT to commit fornication, that exactly is what God would have seen)
2. God gave a command "don't commit fornication" because He knows that you Determine what you'll Do with your life.
3. God is waiting with his rod of judgement to you for going against His words to do what you've been told not to do.

Does the three points above paint the picture of your God?

The above sounds a little like my God. My God is just. If I have been created to go to hell, my rough life is just what I've been programmed to do by God AND I am in fact living perfectly according to His will for me.

There is a line no one must cross when it comes to scriptural and spiritual things in general, this line is also a line that God himself does not cross... That's the line of "WHO GOD IS".. If God says He is JUST, even if Peter comes down from heaven and paints God as an UNJUST God, then Peter himself just said something that is 100% False. If God says He CANNOT LIE.. If you hear anyone, even if he is apostle Paul, claiming that God at one point or the other Lied to someone, then that person (Apostle or no Apostle) just said something that is 100% false.
I'm not bothered about doctrines of tithe, trinity, grace and the likes... As long as you don't cross the line, then I can accommodate your stance.
Your answer to my question crossed that line. You tried salvaging it to accommodate who God is but I showed you without bias that your answer will make God Unjust and His Judgement Untrue.
When God says that He created Lucifer perfect, know for sure that God actually created Lucifer perfect.
Have you heard many people ask this troubling question - Why did God create Lucifer knowing that will fall and cause so much Kasala?
Nobody will be able to answer this question perfectly without a very vital piece info. Without that piece, no matter your answer, you will cross that line.

haddeylium:
Thank you so much
You're right ...Jesus didn't teach that all religion or ways leads to salvation...Rather, he said it's just one and it's even narrow and just few point walk it.
The Bible only teach one true form of Christianity

Jesus said that he taught “the truth,” and early Christians referred to their religion as “the truth.” (John 8:​32it shows that those who promote doctrines that conflict with Jesus’ teachings(like Trinity you mentioned) are not practicing a true form of Christianity.

Didn't christ said true Christain will speak in a angreement.(1 Corinthians 1:​10) However, many Christian denominations disagree on teachings that are so basic. Could that denomination be alright?

And Don't forget that Christ prophesied that **many** will claim to be Christain and he reject them(more than 42,000 denomination now, Didn't Christ see foretold this? (Matthew 7:​21-​23; Luke 6:​46) Some people would be misled by religious leaders who corrupt true worship to further their own interests(act -20;29)

Withstanding all these
There will always be dinstinction between true christainity and false...How clear it is.

You're are yet to reply me on how I can apply the Hebrew text 'of not forsaking meeting together tho'

This nairaland religion section is a kind of "meeting together".
I still had an edifying Word Study with some Christian brothers Last Sunday, that is a kind of " meeting together".
Sometimes, I attend church programs (yea, even the traditional Sunday program) and fellowship with my God, that is a kind of "meeting together". Been to and still attend C.A.C, Redeem, MFM, Living Faith and many many denomination's services.
A whatsapp platform for regimented chain prayers, or one for Word study, and co. Is another form of " meeting together"...
It's not about where we "meet together" it's more about the system on which the "meeting together" is built.
The biggest issue with a denomination-based system of Christianity is producing one-sided baked Christians.... To be continued.
While we are at this, let me ask you a quick question.
Are we actually in the last Days?

MuttleyLaff:
[size=5pt]Wow, but Blabbermouth doesn't like responding to diagnostic questions such as the above three. He didnt give responses to my similar much earlier set of questions too[/size]

Many times sir, I so much prefer to be at the learning end than the teaching(actually, more of argumentative) end. However though, I will answer y'all questions soon...

shadeyinka:
That is why it is impossible for you to answer the questions I posed to you even though it was harmlessly hypothetical. In the realm of man, time machines DO NOT exist. But in the realm of God, this is NOT an impossibility. It is not difficult to objectively answer the questions.

It violates the character of God, for God is JUST.

If God made you incapable of righteousness is it then just for him to judge you?

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

All these indicates that something very essential is missing, that's why things are not adding up.

But you have deliberately ignored the fact that God created time and as such cannot be subject to time.
This made you also ignore the existence of freewill. God can move anywhere in time: in human language, we'll call it time travel
Why would God give laws and commandments when he has already cast our future in stone?

For starters, many have a wrong perception about TIME itself... Like I said, a vital piece of information is missing.

I suspect you are a JW; in such manners they argue.

Far from it, more of a slave of Christ and of the LORD God.

The summary of what you've said is that
1. God predestined you to commit fornication so that He can claim a foreknowledge of it and there is nothing you could have done to change it.
2. God gave a command "don't commit fornication" even though He knows that he has compelled you by predestination to commit fornication.
3. God is waiting with his rod of judgement to you for doing exactly what he has predestined you to do.

Does the three points above paint the picture of your God?

God forbid!
These 3 above are inevitable consequences one must deal with if your answer was 100% true. All I did was force them out of their hiding place and made them show their ugly heads and the kind of pain they can be in the ass.
Sometimes you see, we must diverge in order to converge. We sometimes have no choice to disagree in order to agree.

DrLiveLogic:
Sorry bro. You just don't know the truth. While Emusan is doing a good job on his thread rubbishing the popular JW Johannine comma refutation, the whole scripture is replete with the message of a triune God. Before I even take you further, let me ask what your stance on the Triune Godhead is in explicit terms. Plus, you seem to have a really hard time with foreknowledge and predestination which shouldn't be that complicated actually. Maybe we'd look into that since I'm planning on a related thread soon.

To start with, you said I'm having a hard time understanding predestination and foreknowledge. Well thanks to our reliable big brothers in the house, in persons of, Shade, Muttley, Maximus, Dappa, Haddey and so on, it seems things are finally falling in place. Sadly, their answers have not been without some issh so the floor is still open for you to give a perfect answer with no loopholes.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
I don't know the truth? Well, kosi problem. If I were to be in a face-to-face conversation, I will rather say "the Trinity doctrine needs to be rechecked/perfectly put aright" than say "the Trinity doctrine is false"...
I know of a God who is not actually a person, Far complicated in structure, and calling him a person is synonymous to technically limiting him.
I know of a man who was born of a virgin. He was not fashioned after Adam but After God himself. Such man I know of who being Divine in essence (yet not a person) became a Human and by merit became a Divine being and held an office that achieved (or say, completed) what God so desired and principally purposed to achieve when He smite the anvil of his omnipotence to begin creation.
I know of a spirit though not like mine but still is a spirit of an infinite higher complexity. This spirit is the spirit of the entity (not a person, Something much more higher and complex) called God.

haddeylium:
Your background really help in better grasp of it but I must commend you for how intelligent and open-minded you sound?
You might be right...God does not teach that a person can please God by just being a member of a religion.
To be approved, someone's religion must affect is everyday life; clean, undefiled, free of man-made doctrines (as you stated) and paganism as rampant it is today.

But, while we are at this
As someone not belonging to an organized religion..
How can I apply these God's word
Hebrews 10:24, 25- let us consider one another so as to motivate to love and fine works, not forsaking our meeting together.[/b]”​—
And didn't tell his followers to to form and an organized group which other can emulate as being unique?
By this all will know that you are my disciples​—if you have love among yourselves.” (John 13:35)
'Having love for the whole 'association' of brotherhood nko(1pet2:17)

If you want to bold a text, use the "[b]" to preceed the texts (the way an open bracket works) then use the "[/b]" to close the texts (the way a close bracket works)...
Jesus does not belong to any church or denomination. Peter, paul, apollos, James, and them all never were JW nor Reedemers, Catholics and what have you... If only everyone were like this (not pledging allegiance to any sect or denomination), you would have seen how glorious and infallible christianity will be today.
Back to the theme of the discussion, i'm more concerned as to how Jesus is the same as Angel Michael.

Haddeylium, I thought you were going to do me the honor of explaining how Jesus is the same with Angel Michael?

haddeylium:
If I may?
Have you always known from the beginning that trinity is unbiblical or you've held the view for some extent?

I was an Xmuslim. False doctrines stem from the church system that enforces believers to belong to a particular sect and pledge allegiance to whatever doctrine the sect you belong to feed you with. Luckily, I belong to no denomination and belong to no sect, thus, I've been Liberal and open to the truth of Christ with the humility to Unlearn and relearn as childish as necessary. From the beginning, I knew Trinity was unbiblical.

It's a bitter truth to some but at the end of the day, it is what it is - Trinity is unbiblical.
The only issue I have with JW's stand in the Trinity or No Trinity doctrine is them falsely equating Jesus with Angel Michael.
That's outrageously false!!!

shadeyinka:

My Answer:
God knows the future of the Foetus because God can see (in real time) his sets of choices and events surrounding him well before he was conceived.

From this answer, I hope you have been able to convince yourself and not confuse yourself that Foreknowledge and predestination cannot be 100% untangled or separated. Simply put, foreknowledge is a function of predetermination.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
We both agree to the fact that an unconscious foetus cannot CHOOSE for itself. You then said God (even before the foetus became conscious of its existence) foreknows already where the foetus will end.
1. From the case study of God and an unconscious foetus, in all extremities only the two of them have the ability to predestine where the foetus will end
2. Unfortunately, the foetus is unconscious and unable to CHOOSE and that leaves us with only two option
I. Where the future of the foetus is blank- God knows not if he will end up in hell or heaven
II. Where the other subject I.e. God, using his predetermining ability to choose for the foetus itself.
3. In a twist of Complication, God(at every point in time) is omniscient and thus know where the foetus must end
4. Again, the foetus cannot choose for itself yet, but somehow the omniscient God knows where it will end
5. We are left with II as the only possible way for God knowing a foetus' future to be plausible
6. The omniscient God himself predestined the foetus' eternal abode.

Now, before your response, answer these questions. It will surely help your next question or objection.

Let's assume you own a time machine and you can be present and see anything up to 20 years in the future.

Will you be able to describe the president of Nigeria come 2023 and even the one that will take over in 2028?
Will you be able to say if the new President in 2023 will have a baby girl (with his new wife), the name of the baby and if the baby will drown (but rescued in the nick of time) in the Aso villa swimming pool at the age of three?

Can it then be said that you know the future of the yet to be formed foetus of the yet to be president and his yet to be married wife?

Unfortunately, "time machine" does not exist, can not exist, and can never be applicable to real life or imaginary scenarios.
So, the question is invalid to me.

Squillaci:
He lets humans by not interfering.
But He clearly can't see the future.

Why can't God see the future?

Squillaci:
He know what will happen because He can make it happen at that time without any hindrance.

You are 100% right here.

shadeyinka:
Okay!
But when he feels my response isn't direct enough.

Yes sir, it's not direct at all.

shadeyinka:
I don't know if you are feigning ignorance or pretending to be unintelligent.

I'll put it simply again:
1. The foetus CANNOT choose anything for itself before it has an opportunity to LIVE.
2. The future is NOT cast in stone. The future is changed by our present ACTIONS
3. Since God created TIME, God can "travel in time" and thus KNOW how the variable future has played out.

Your question was based on a wrong presmise that an unconscious foetus can choose and you want to force an impossible answer.

Your question is just like me asking you that
"How did a car choose for itself that it will be owned by a female driver"?
Your question may make sense only if I have told you that cars can choose!


Did anyone tell you that a foetus can choose?
Did anyone tell you that an unconscious person can choose?

Ohhh... I now understand you.
Then I should ask, [b]Does God know the future of a foetus (this includes foreknowing where the foetus will end) before it was born?

Damnn Nigarrrr
Isoright
By the way, I still saw him spitting (spiritual) bars against BBN threads on front-page.

shadeyinka:
Haven't I repeated this answer more than twice within this thread!?

Not even once, you've not answered the question correctly.

Do you think it is fair if God sends a foetus to hell because God said that He knows (Foreknowledge) that the foetus will grow up to be a murderer and a serial rapist?
Even if Gods Foreknowledge was perfectly correct, there is no justice in punishing a man for a crime he hasn't commited.

Hmmmm.

In other words, the foetus choose hell for itself AFTER he was born and grew up to the age of accountability AND then chose to live his life devoid of God (even though he could have chosen otherwise)

BEFORE it was born, God already knows if the foetus will end up in hell or in heaven. You are saying the Foetus chose hell AFTER it was born, this is a weak attempt at using the forward button to push the foetus to a stage of consciousness and accountability.
I'm not talking about the Foetus choosing hell after it was born and grew up to accountability (you said this yourself) , I'm asking How the foetus chose hell for itself (since God already knew before it was born) BEFORE it was born and grew to accountability ...
HOW, HOW, HOW, HOW! DID AN UNCONSCIOUS FOETUS CHOSE HELL FOR ITSELF BEFORE IT WAS BORN?
With your answer to this, I will be able to fully grasp your answer to the question of the thread.

Otem is right and his action is justified. Sulele perhaps is a chest beater or someone not used to e-mail kind of messaging. He should drop his contact so Item can send it to him through telegram or WhatsApp.

iLegendd:
Elon Musk added some B too. This is a year of exponential growth for smart business men. You lose small, you gain a lot is the game.

2 years ago, I said to someone that Elon Musk will be richest (or 2nd richest) man in the world by 2025.

shadeyinka:
@Blabbermouth:

You are a secondary school teacher. You teach mathematics. You need to leave your students alone in the class while you go to the principals office for a few minutes.

You foreknow that your students will begin to make noise after you leave the class. You infact can predict the ring leaders of the noise makers.

Now, you leave the class for 5minuites and your student begin to make noise.

Will it be correct to accuse YOU of making the noise makers to make noise?

Even if this analogy is weak, I will settle with it.
In that illustration, the students can decide to keep quiet and read for an impromptu test the headmaster has promised to give, do you know why? The power to either make noise or keep quiet is in their hands, in this case, the teacher's foreknowledge (more of glorified guesswork) was wrong. In God's case, whether the students like it or not, the student will/must make noise, if they don't, God's foreknowledge will be wrong.
Please answer this...
According to God's foreknowledge, "in the next 10 years I bought a buggati veyron for my daughter..." Can I with the power of freewill decide not to buy a Bugatti veyron and buy her a mansion instead?

shadeyinka:
...

Shadeyinka: God already foreknows that a foetus will go to hell.
How did the 95% unconscious foetus choose hell for itself?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

MuttleyLaff:
....

Honestly, I understand you completely. However my question still stands and I will prefer a binary YES or NO answer.
According to God's foreknowledge, "in the next 10 years I bought a buggati veyron for my daughter"... Can I with the power of freewill decide not to buy a Bugatti veyron and buy her a mansion instead?

linearity:
...

To you, does God know the future?

linearity:
Interesting topic and logic here....

Let’s use your analog of the James Bond movie for a second here.

Your knowledge of the movie is finite and as such not as near as that of God, therefore your foreknowledge of how the movie will end does not equate to a predestination.

Let’s step back and look at that movie again, from the perspective of the Movie Director, just like you he have a foreknowledge that James Bond will survive, his foreknowledge also equates his predestination, because he was the one that wrote the script and predestined James Bond not to die, nothing James Bond would do will make him die, because the all knowing Movie Director has predestined him to survive against all odds.

Unlike you, the Movie Director’s knowledge about the movie is infinite, just like the knowledge of God about the universe, everything and everybody.

It seems you are the only person that understands (at least, you are not pretending not to know) what I've been saying since.

FatherOfJesus:
What does his comment have to do with relative motion?

Hahahahahahaha hahahahahahaha hahahahahahaha... Since you are the FatherOfJesus, you should have the divine ability to know.

illicit:
shut up

so u know physics more than Galileo

Yes.

illicit:
The same Bible thought that the sun revolves around the earth until Galileo came

Do you know anything about "Relative Motion" from high school physics? If you do, you won't be making this ignorant comment.

Maximus69:
No literal name was written otherwise that would have meant partiality!

It simply means the good plans of God to make the earth a Paradise stands and remain unshakable, names of all obedient people is in essence WRITTEN already because that's the criteria for getting there!

JW read the scripture with the lens of Who God is (I.e. Holy, Love, Just and the likes... ), so every doctrine and belief is dependent on this system of scripture studying. This is why you are hell-bent on not believing that a lake of fire is the portion of those found wanting (despite it being boldly written and claimed by Jesus himself). That's great I must say.
You saying that there are "no literal names" is also a function of using that lens to interprete the scripture.
I will take this page of your playbook (or say, truth book) and use this lens where necessary.
C'ya