₦airaland Forum

shadeyinka:
Job is saying there is nothing to do to wake up a corpse till heavens be no more(end of the world)!

Is this interpretation correct?

100% correct.

That means Samuel could not have been the one who appeared to Saul and the witch.

Another False story from Atheists.

shadeyinka:
In other words when I say you are my BOSOM FRIEND, I mean you are my "Breast Friend"?

Abraham's Bosom is a figurative phrase that appears to have been drawn from a popular belief that the righteous would rest by Abraham's side in the world to come, an opinion described in Jewish literature at the time of Christ.


https://www.biblestudytools.com/dictionary/abrahams-bosom/

The Lake of Fire is empty as of now while Hell is not empty.
1. If the "good Thief" is in paradise, is he there in an unconscious state?
2. Is the "evil Thief" also in paradise? And if not, what's the difference between the destinations of the two thieves?

Stop quoting confused authors who don't know what they are saying.

The Nature of Death
If death is the cessation of life, what does the Bible say about a
person's condition in death? What makes it important that
Christians understand this Biblical teaching?
352
Death Is a Sleep. Death is not complete annihilation; it is only a
state of temporary unconsciousness while the person awaits the
resurrection. The Bible repeatedly calls this intermediate state a
sleep.
Referring to their deaths, the Old Testament describes David,
Solomon, and the other kings of Israel and Judah as sleeping with
their forefathers (1 Kings 2:10; 11:43; 14:20, 31; 15:8; 2 Chron. 21:1;
26:23; etc.). Job called death a sleep (Job 14:10-12), as did David
(Ps. 13:3), Jeremiah (Jer. 51:39, 57), and Daniel (Dan. 12:2).
The New Testament uses the same imagery. In describing the
condition of Jairus' daughter, who was dead, Christ said that she
was sleeping (Matt. 9:24; Mark 5:39). He referred to the deceased
Lazarus in a similar manner (John 11:11-14). Matthew wrote that
many "saints who had fallen asleep were raised" after Christ's
resurrection (Matt. 27:52), and in recording Stephen's martyrdom,
Luke wrote that "he fell asleep" (Acts 7:60). Both Paul and Peter
also called death a sleep (1 Cor. 15:51, 52; 1 Thess. 4:13-17; 2
Peter 3:4). The Biblical representation of death as a sleep clearly
fits its nature, as the following comparisons demonstrate: 1. Those
who sleep are unconscious. "The dead know nothing" (Eccl. 9:5). 2.
In sleep conscious thinking ceases. "His breath goeth forth, . . . in
that very day his thoughts perish" (Ps. 146:4, KJV). 3. Sleep brings
an end to all the days activities. "There is no work or device or
knowledge or wisdom in the grave where you are going" (Eccl. 9:10)
. 4. Sleep disassociates us from those who are awake, and from
their activities. "Nevermore will they have a share in anything done
under the sun" (verse 6). 5. Normal sleep renders the emotions
inactive. "Their love, their hatred, and their envy have now
perished" (verse 6). 6. In sleep men do not praise God. "The dead
do not praise the Lord" (Ps. 115:17). 7. Sleep presupposes an
awakening. "'The hour is coming in which all who are in the graves
will hear His voice and come forth'" (John 5:28, 29). 3
The Person Returns to Dust. To understand what happens to a
person at death, one must understand what makes up his or her
nature. The Bible portrays a person as an organic unity (see chapter
7 of this book). At times it uses the word soul to refer to the whole
person, and at other times to the affections and emotions. But it
does not teach that man comprises two separate parts. Body and
soul only exist together; they form an indivisible union.
At humanity's creation, the union of the dust of the ground (earth's
elements) and the breath of life produced a living being or soul.
Adam did not receive a soul as a separate entity; he became a
living soul (Gen. 2:7: see also chapter 7 of this book). At death the
inverse takes place: the dust of the ground minus the breath of life
yields a dead person or dead soul without any consciousness (Ps.
146:4). The elements that made up the body return to the earth
from which they came (Gen. 3:19).
353
The soul has no conscious existence apart from the body, and no
scripture indicates that at death the soul survives as a conscious
entity. Indeed, "'the soul who sins shall die'" (Eze. 18:20)

Maximus69:
OK oooooo.

So there is different between Mosaic laws and ten commandments!

I hear you, please continue teaching your misinformed churchgoer friends what you want jare, you no get problem!

https://www.christiantruthcenter.com/difference-between-god-laws-and-mosaic-law/

There are 6 differences between God laws and Mosaic Law.
If a person fails to differentiate these laws, s/he gets confused with
which part of the law applies to him/her.
God laws are the Ten Commandments found in Exodus 20 while Mosaic
Law are all other Old Testament laws found in the Torah or Pentateuch
books (first five books of the bible).
6 Differences between God laws and Mosaic Law
The 6 differences are; –
1. God laws were audibly spoken by God at Mount Sinai Ex 19:9, 20:1
And the LORD said to Moses, Lo, I come to you in a thick cloud, that
the people may hear when I speak with you, and believe you for
ever. And God spoke all these words, saying… While Moses laws
were not given audibly but given to Moses privately.
2. God laws were directly written by the figure of God on table stones
Ex 31:18: And he gave to Moses, when he had made an end of
communing with him upon mount Sinai, two tables of testimony,
tables of stone, written with the finger of God, while the Law of
Moses was not written by God but by Moses inspired by God Deut
31:9 And Moses wrote this law.
3. It is God who commanded His laws in Mount. Sinai Deut 4:13-14:
And he declared unto you his covenant, which he commanded you to
perform, even ten commandments; and he wrote them upon two
tables of stone. And the LORD commanded me at that time to teach
you statutes and judgments, that you might do them in the land
which you go over to possess it. While Moses commanded his laws
(the statutes and judgments) to the children of Israel. Notice the
two different commanders of the two laws.
4. The law of God was preserved uniquely inside the ark of covenant
Ex 25:16: And you shall put into the ark the testimony which I shall
give you, while the Law of Moses was place on the side of the ark
Deut 31:24-26: And it came to pass, when Moses had made an end
of writing the words of this law in a book, until they were finished,
that Moses commanded the Levites, which bear the ark of the
covenant of the LORD, saying, take this book of the law, and put it in
the side of the ark of the covenant of the LORD your God, that it
may be there for a witness against you.
5. 2Ki 21:8: Neither will I make the feet of Israel move any more out
of the land which I gave their fathers; only if they will observe to do
according to all that I have commanded them, and according to all
the law that my servant Moses commanded them . From this verse
we see also that there are two different laws. God uses the words ‘ I
have commanded them ’ meaning the Ten Commandments while
‘ The laws that my servant Moses commanded them ’ meaning the
laws of Moses.
6. Daniel revealed this difference between these laws. Dan 9:11: Yea,
all Israel have transgressed your law, even by departing, that they
might not obey you voice; therefore the curse is poured upon us, and
the oath that is written in the law of Moses the servant of God,
because we have sinned against him. ‘Your law’ referring to God
laws; the Ten Commandments while ‘the law of Moses’ referring to
the Mosaic Law.
A Christian has to differentiate these two laws because God’s law (the
Ten Commandments) applies to all people at all times while the Law of
Moses is specifically for the Jewish people.

shadeyinka:
Why are you acting so myopic. I have said the spirit of Samuel will appear to Saul in a form recognisable by Saul. It has nothing to do with age nor ageing.

As an exercise, after resurrection, how old do you think Father Abraham will look?

Spirit or Soul?

shadeyinka:
If I was to use your method of interpretation of this same book of Job, I will say
"THERE IS NOTHING LIKE RESURRECTION!"

Job 14:12
So man lieth down, and riseth not: till the heavens be no
more, they shall not awake, nor be raised out of their sleep.

Proper interpretation:
Job is saying there is nothing to do to wake up a corpse till heavens be no more(end of the world)!
This is perfectly correct.

And end of the World is when Christ comes when the ressurection takes place.

Job just proved that it was not Samuel that appeared to Saul and the Witch.

shadeyinka:
In other words when I say you are my BOSOM FRIEND, I mean you are my "Breast Friend"?

Abraham's Bosom is a figurative phrase that appears to have been drawn from a popular belief that the righteous would rest by Abraham's side in the world to come, an opinion described in Jewish literature at the time of Christ.


https://www.biblestudytools.com/dictionary/abrahams-bosom/

The Lake of Fire is empty as of now while Hell is not empty.
1. If the "good Thief" is in paradise, is he there in an unconscious state?
2. Is the "evil Thief" also in paradise? And if not, what's the difference between the destinations of the two thieves?

You are confused.

Why ask me?
You are the one claiming that the thief is in paradise so answer the question yourself.

Useless man

shadeyinka:
Who do you think Saul knew as Samuel? Was it Samuel as a teenager? Wouldn't Samuel be presented in a form recognisable for Saul?

Where is the geographical location of heaven? For the person at the North and South pole of the earth will point at exactly different locations.

So Souls age?

I thought souls were immaterial like you said.

shadeyinka:
Didn't you read in the first paragraph of my mention you responded to that


Then you still went ahead to ask an ignorant question! SMH!

You are deeply confused.

Job 14:12 So man lieth down, and riseth not: till the heavens be no
more, they shall not awake, nor be raised out of their sleep.


Job is saying that ones a man sleeps or dies he cannot awake or do anything till the Heavens pass away.


How come Samuel and your Lazarus were busy?

shadeyinka:
Luk 16:22:
"And it happened that the beggar died and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom . The rich one also died and was buried."


Reward takes place after Resurrection. Lazarus was not rewarded yet. He was just in the place made for the dead to rest and wait for their fellow brethren to be harvested from the earth.



There is difference between Hell and the Lake of Fire. The lake of fire is also called the Second death. The lake of fire comes only after the resurrection.


Corpse know nothing is the context.



Time will tell.

You are deeply confused.

So were is Abraham's Bosom?
Do you even know the meaning of Bosom?

https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/bosom

If Lazarus and the rich man were not rewarded, why was the rich man tormented in Fire?



In your own Bible Hell is different from Lake of fire?

shadeyinka:
Sleep connote the notion that after the physical death, there is a resurrection. When a person sleeps, does he not wake up?

Sleep is the comforting terminology that the separation through death is NOT permanent.



A human being is designed by God to be a Trinity of his body, soul and spirit. At death, the body goes to the earth while the soul/spirit goes to Sheol/Paradise or Hades.

Resurrection is simply a recombining of the Soul/Spirit of Man with his body. All the saints gone before had to be recombined with a physical body.






Abraham's Bossom is a description of where Abraham is. This is made plane when you read the whole passage.


I am sure you are looking at the way humans on earth would have to stretch their vocal cords in shouting across the gulf hoping that the wind will be kind enough to carry their sound over the great chasm!
If following your logic:
Prayer to God will require some big microphone and amplifier to reach up to heaven. LOL


You are locked into your one single definition again. If Angels are spirit beings, don't they have forms? Do they not have eyes, hands etc. Don't angels sometimes carry swords or pen and scroll?

Haven't you heard that the physical is just a copy of what exist in the spirit realm?


Jesus succeeded in convincing us that Hades is not a pleasant place to be. It is a place of torment.


The lesson of the message of Jesus with the story of Lazarus and the Rich man are these
1. People should care about how they live their lives hear on earth for there is judgement afterwards
2. There is consciousness after death
3. Hades is the place of torment where ungodly people went after death on earth
4. The dead are separated into two compartments depending on how godly their lives had been while alive on earth. It's either Hades or the Abode of Abraham
5. Repentance may not be possible after death. The Rich man did not even intercede for himself
6. Denial of the existence of life after death ceases completely at death and it is impossible to send someone from the dead to preach/correct the errors of the living
7. Let the living listen to the preachers and prophets sent to them.
8. Humans will not obey God simply because someone from the dead was told to try to convince them.

Is better you write your own Bible.
There is no evidence of Abraham's Bososm existing in the Bible.


People are rewarded when Christ comes not before.

People are resurrected before been rewarded.


Hell fire will occur at the end of this World not before.

The bible says the dead know nothing.






I can go on and on to prove that your writeup is just wish full thinking.

shadeyinka:
Sleep connote the notion that after the physical death, there is a resurrection. When a person sleeps, does he not wake up?

Sleep is the comforting terminology that the separation through death is NOT permanent.



A human being is designed by God to be a Trinity of his body, soul and spirit. At death, the body goes to the earth while the soul/spirit goes to Sheol/Paradise or Hades.

Resurrection is simply a recombining of the Soul/Spirit of Man with his body. All the saints gone before had to be recombined with a physical body.






Abraham's Bossom is a description of where Abraham is. This is made plane when you read the whole passage.


I am sure you are looking at the way humans on earth would have to stretch their vocal cords in shouting across the gulf hoping that the wind will be kind enough to carry their sound over the great chasm!
If following your logic:
Prayer to God will require some big microphone and amplifier to reach up to heaven. LOL


You are locked into your one single definition again. If Angels are spirit beings, don't they have forms? Do they not have eyes, hands etc. Don't angels sometimes carry swords or pen and scroll?

Haven't you heard that the physical is just a copy of what exist in the spirit realm?


Jesus succeeded in convincing us that Hades is not a pleasant place to be. It is a place of torment.


The lesson of the message of Jesus with the story of Lazarus and the Rich man are these
1. People should care about how they live their lives hear on earth for there is judgement afterwards
2. There is consciousness after death
3. Hades is the place of torment where ungodly people went after death on earth
4. The dead are separated into two compartments depending on how godly their lives had been while alive on earth. It's either Hades or the Abode of Abraham
5. Repentance may not be possible after death. The Rich man did not even intercede for himself
6. Denial of the existence of life after death ceases completely at death and it is impossible to send someone from the dead to preach/correct the errors of the living
7. Let the living listen to the preachers and prophets sent to them.
8. Humans will not obey God simply because someone from the dead was told to try to convince them.

2 Samuel 7:12 And when thy days be fulfilled, and thou shalt sleep with thy fathers, I will set up thy seed after thee, which shall proceed out of thy bowels, and I will establish his kingdom.

Job 14:12 So man lieth down, and riseth not: till the heavens be no more, they shall not awake, nor be raised out of their sleep.


Daniel 12:2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.

So why is David, Daniel and Job still sleeping?

shadeyinka:
Sleep connote the notion that after the physical death, there is a resurrection. When a person sleeps, does he not wake up?

Sleep is the comforting terminology that the separation through death is NOT permanent.



A human being is designed by God to be a Trinity of his body, soul and spirit. At death, the body goes to the earth while the soul/spirit goes to Sheol/Paradise or Hades.

Resurrection is simply a recombining of the Soul/Spirit of Man with his body. All the saints gone before had to be recombined with a physical body.






Abraham's Bossom is a description of where Abraham is. This is made plane when you read the whole passage.


I am sure you are looking at the way humans on earth would have to stretch their vocal cords in shouting across the gulf hoping that the wind will be kind enough to carry their sound over the great chasm!
If following your logic:
Prayer to God will require some big microphone and amplifier to reach up to heaven. LOL


You are locked into your one single definition again. If Angels are spirit beings, don't they have forms? Do they not have eyes, hands etc. Don't angels sometimes carry swords or pen and scroll?

Haven't you heard that the physical is just a copy of what exist in the spirit realm?


Jesus succeeded in convincing us that Hades is not a pleasant place to be. It is a place of torment.


The lesson of the message of Jesus with the story of Lazarus and the Rich man are these
1. People should care about how they live their lives hear on earth for there is judgement afterwards
2. There is consciousness after death
3. Hades is the place of torment where ungodly people went after death on earth
4. The dead are separated into two compartments depending on how godly their lives had been while alive on earth. It's either Hades or the Abode of Abraham
5. Repentance may not be possible after death. The Rich man did not even intercede for himself
6. Denial of the existence of life after death ceases completely at death and it is impossible to send someone from the dead to preach/correct the errors of the living
7. Let the living listen to the preachers and prophets sent to them.
8. Humans will not obey God simply because someone from the dead was told to try to convince them.

See Bible skills.


You are confused.

Maximus69:
See mumu o!

So at last Jesus the TEACHER actually came to TEACH as part of his assignments?

Then Abimelech has qualified for God's Kingdom even without learning the rules Jesus introduced to the first century Jews!

When Moses clearly taught his people that all the laws God gave them through him will only guide them until the coming of another prophet who will teach them how to gain everlasting life! Deuteronomy 18:15-19 compare to Genesis 49:10

My friend keep teaching your misinformed churchgoer friends what you feel on Nairaland, Jesus came to fulfill the law and nobody is required to continue with what Jesus has come to teach us it's practical applications in form of principles, WE TRUE CHRISTIANS ARE NO LONGER UNDER THE MOSAIC LAWS! Galatians 3:19-25

Moreover if Abimelech lived by conscience and it was counted as righteousness for him (according to you though not found in the scriptures) then why do people need the laws instead of their conscience?

After all Abimelech never lived by Mosaic laws but BY CONSCIENCE!

Òpònú Olódo (Confused Dullard)

I can stop laughing at you.

Its God's word vs your false teachers and occult Church.
The evidence is clear.

Those who had no opportunity to know God's law will be judged by there conscience thats what the Bible says.
Everyone instinctively knows what is right or wrong we only have the incapacity to do the right one.


Romans 2:13 (For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified. 2:14 For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:

2:15 Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another

2:16 In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel.


Blind leading blind.

Tell Me what false teachers with record of false prophecies will teach?

I guess more lies and delusion.


You are so dumb you cannot differentiate between Moisac laws and the ten commandments.

JMAN05:
So, I conclude that there is none. Thanks.

But you claimed they are one law, that were all done away with.

Yet you cannot show proof that they are one and the same law and were all abolished.

JMAN05:
So you view Isaiah as a Christian?

Who is a Christian?

If Isaiah is not a Christian than Abraham is not also a Christian.
and that means you are not a Christian either because your right to Christianity is bore from Abraham's covenant with God which extends to everyone that believes.

JMAN05:
James 2:8 about the royal law is what? Part of the ten commandments?

The Royal law is the ten commandments.

JMAN05:
I see the picture you want to paint. It is true that Daniel was judged from a law orchestrated by his enemies. Christ did die unjustly. however, there are differences that made the point not remarkable for me.

1. Daniel did not die for humans nor for his fellow Israelites. He was not even thrown into the den for the sin of anybody.

2. Daniel did sin against the Law of Persia that was newly enacted, although it was a witch-hunt. Christ did not sin against the law of God.

3. The law God gave the Israelites was changed.The Persian does not change. True, you say that the one that ended was the Mosaic law. Even at that, it was God that gave that law.

The purpose of that article was to demonstrate God's justice and mercy.

The Mede's do not change their law, so also God could not change his law to save man or his son.

How was the 10commandments or law given to the Isaeralites changed?

Is auldtery,stealing,killing,liaring, using the name of God in vain, bowing to Idols, and all other 10laws no longer sin?

If the law was changed can we now kill others?

shadeyinka:
Samuel and Samuel's corpse are different. Samuel's corpse may know nothing and is probably decayed up. But Samuel (Soul and Spirit) is very much alive and conscious!

I can stop laughing at you?

So his Soul was an old man?

So His Soul came out from the ground instead of the Altar or Heaven were other saved Souls are?

shadeyinka:
Cc: orisa37

Man was designed and fashioned to be a Trinity consisting of His Physical Body, His Spirit and His Soul.

Death is a disconnection! Physical death occurs when a Man's body is disconnected/separated from the union of his Soul and Spirit.

Resurrection recombines a man's physical body with the union of his Soul and Spirit. Man was not designed to live for eternity in heaven but on the new earth with his physical body.

Where is the trinity here?

Genesis 2:7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

In that Bible verse above where is the Soul in man?

shadeyinka:
If angels can have emotions and personality, then humans can have emotions and personalities without their bodies. A man can only fulfill this when he is absent from his body in physical death. Or what do you think this scripture mean:

2Cor 5:6-8:
"Then being always confident, knowing that while we are at home in the body, we are away from home from the Lord; for we walk by faith, not by sight; then we are confident and we are pleased rather to go away from home out of the body, and to come home to the Lord."

Angels are living beings so they can have emotions.

Since we agree that Soul can mean ones intellect,emotions

or Breathe of life
or a person which consists of body and life.

Show me how any of this I mentioned above will have emotions outside the body?

Are emotions living being?

shadeyinka:
If angels can have emotions and personality, then humans can have emotions and personalities without their bodies. A man can only fulfill this when he is absent from his body in physical death. Or what do you think this scripture mean:

2Cor 5:6-8:
"Then being always confident, knowing that while we are at home in the body, we are away from home from the Lord; for we walk by faith, not by sight; then we are confident and we are pleased rather to go away from home out of the body, and to come home to the Lord."

The Fourth Question:
What does Paul mean by in the body or out of the body
in 2 Corinthians 12:2-3?
Let's read the text and a few other verses:
1. It is doubtless not profitable for me to boast. I will come to
visions and revelations of the Lord:
2. I know a man in Christ who fourteen years ago-- whether in the
body I do not know, or whether out of the body I do not know, God
knows -- such a one was caught up to the third heaven .
3. And I know such a man -- whether in the body or out of the body
I do not know, God knows --
4. how he was caught up into Paradise and heard inexpressible
words, which it is not lawful for a man to utter.
5. Of such a one I will boast; yet of myself I will not boast, except
in my infirmities.
6. For though I might desire to boast, I will not be a fool; for I will
speak the truth. But I refrain, lest anyone should think of me above
what he sees me to be or hears from me.
7. And lest I should be exalted above measure by the abundance
of the revelations, a thorn in the flesh was given to me, a
messenger of Satan to buffet me, lest I be exalted above measure.
2 Corinthians 12:1-7
This text is usually used to prove the doctrine of an immortal soul.
However it does not talk about that at all. Most commentators concede
that Paul was describing his own experience, because he spoke in context
of his own revelations or dreams.
Paul was concerned that no one should think he was glorying or boasting
about his visions. For this reason, he ascribed the experience to a man he
knew.
Paul's soul did not leave his body, in spite of claims to the contrary. He
was not puzzled over whether he had died or not. He was merely
uncertain as to whether he dreamt it or if he went there in person, in real
life.
Although it seemed that he was bodily taken to heaven, yet he felt it
possible that he was taken there only in a dream or vision. He confessed
to complete ignorance as to what actually happened.
The physical impressions seemed as though he were "out of the body," in
a way of speaking. In the same way, Paul wrote to the Colossian church,
"For though I be absent in the flesh, yet am I with you in the spirit."
Colossians 2:5 . No one interprets this to mean that some immortal soul
left Paul's body to be with his friends. He was only saying he was thinking
of them.
The Fifth Question:
Doesn't Paul teach "to be absent from the body is to be
present with the Lord?"
In the text below, we can see that in the first four verses, Paul is
contrasting the mortal state that we find ourselves in with immortal life in
heaven.
1. Now we know that if the earthly tent we live in is destroyed, we
have a building from God, an eternal house in heaven, not built by
human hands.
2. Meanwhile we groan, longing to be clothed with our heavenly
dwelling ,
3. because when we are clothed , we will not be found naked .
4. For while we are in this tent, we groan and are burdened,
because we do not wish to be unclothed but to be clothed with our
heavenly dwelling, so that what is mortal may be swallowed up by
life .
5. Now it is God who has made us for this very purpose and has
given us the Spirit as a deposit, guaranteeing what is to come.
6. Therefore we are always confident and know that as long as
we are at home in the body we are away from the Lord.
7. We live by faith, not by sight.
8. We are confident, I say, and would prefer to be away from the
body and at home with the Lord.
9. So we make it our goal to please him, whether we are at home
in the body or away from it .
10. For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ,
that each one may receive what is due to him for the things done
while in the body, whether good or bad.
11. Since, then, we know what it is to fear the Lord, we try to
persuade men. What we are is plain to God, and I hope it is also
plain to your conscience. 2 Corinthians 5:1-11 NIV
Clearly, in verse 3, to be naked or unclothed is death. It is not being
mortal nor immortal because Paul clearly describes two sets of clothes.
The first is mortality, the earthly tent that we groan in while we long to
be clothed with our heavenly dwelling, a building from God, an eternal
house in heaven, not built by human hands, which is immortality.
In Verse 5 Paul says that we were made for the very purpose of having
immortality and we have been given the Holy Spirit as a guarantee of
what is to come.
In verse 6 and 7 we are told that we live by faith, not by sight because
we are in this mortal body and we cannot see God directly. This is what
we all experience.
Verse 8 and 9 is what gives problems. What does Paul mean by saying
we would be prefer to be away from the body and be at home with the
Lord? Having no body does not match any of the three conditions
described in verses 1-4 (1. mortality-the earthly tent, 2. death-being
naked, 3. immortality-clothed with our heavenly dwelling).
This could be a reference to visions and dreams as Paul does in 2
Corinthians 12:2-4. He would rather be with God in vision rather than be in
his mortal body on earth. See the discussion above.
In the first letter to the Corinthians, Paul had already told them WHEN we
would all receive immortality,
51. Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we
shall all be changed,
52. In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for
the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible,
and we shall be changed .
53. For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal
must put on immortality.
54. So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and
this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to
pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory . 1
Corinthians 15:51-54.
Paul also wrote in his closing testimony:
6. For I am now ready to be offered, and the time of my departure
is at hand.
7. I have fought a good fight, I have finished my course, I have
kept the faith:
8. Henceforth there is laid up for me a crown of righteousness,
which the Lord, the righteous judge, shall give me at that day: and
not to me only, but unto all them also that love his appearing . 2
Timothy 4:6-8.
It should be clear that Paul believed he would be with the Lord when
Jesus appears again.

shadeyinka:
A person's soul is his personal identity and this include his intellect, emotion and will. It is the "I", "Me", "Myself". It is different from the physical body for if surgically your limbs, heart, lungs and liver is replaced with another man's organs, your identity remains with you. Except if you are of those who believe that the soul is just your brain.

A man's soul can exist in his spirit body just as his soul can exist in his physical body.

Where is it written that we have a spirit body?

If we have a spirit body why is Paul teaching that the just will be resurrected and there bodies transformed?

shadeyinka:
I wish you first answer my questions rather than evading it by asking other questions. When you do, I promise to answer all these new questions

Which question?

shadeyinka:
I checked my quotation leading to this response and it looks like it was meant for someone else for I didn't speak anywhere of any "STATE"!

You may confirm

I used the word State as an example.

The same way the word Soul can mean 3different things in the Bible depending on the context it is used so also the same way the word State can mean 3 different things.

shadeyinka:
Jesus did not go to heaven. And He didn't tell the "good thief" he'll be going to heaven but Paradise!



1. 1Sam 28:12: "And the woman saw Samuel, and cried with a loud voice. And the woman spoke to Saul, saying, Why have you deceived me? For you [are] Saul!"

2. 1Sam 28:14: "And he said to her, What [is] his form? And she said, An old man comes up, and he is covered with a cloak. And Saul saw that it was Samuel, and [he] bowed [his] face to the ground, and prostrated himself.

3. 1Sam 28:15: "And Samuel said to Saul, Why have you disturbed me, to bring me up?
And Saul answered, I am grievously distressed, for the Philistines are warring against me. And God has left me and does not answer me any more, neither by prophets nor by dreams. And I have called you so that you may make known to me what I should do."

4. 1Sam 28:16: "And Samuel said, Why then do you ask me, since the LORD has left you and has become your enemy?"

The witch saw Samuel
Saul saw that it was Samuel
Samuel spoke to Saul
Samuel judged Saul




You've entered into the error of assuming soul means just one definition instead of three
i. Person, People
ii. Will, Emotion and Intellect
iii. Self Identity.
In context, I saw the people who were beheaded (past tense)

Rev 6:9-11:
"And when He had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of those who had been slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held. And they cried with a loud voice, saying, Until when, Master, holy and true, do You not judge and avenge our blood on those who dwell on the earth? And white robes were given to each one of them. And it was said to them that they should rest yet for a little time, until both their fellow servants and their brothers (those about to be killed as they [were] ) should have their number made complete."

Even though physically dead, they were regarded as living (souls, people) for they were not unconscious and had their will, emotion and intellect complete. They were even told to have a little more patience untill their fellow brothers be also killed.


I've answered this before. Yes a person's personality, faculty exist with either his Spirit body or his Physical body. While Jesus body was in the tomb, was he unconscious? Was Jesus unconscious before his resurrection on the third day?


Even you know that death could mean
1. Physical death
2. Spiritual death
3. Second death.
Does a physically dead person's corpse feel or know anything? Isn't this the context?
Has my argument ever been that corpse are alive and know or feel things?

Eccl 9:5:
"At least the living know they will die, but the dead know nothing; they no longer have a reward, since memory about them has been forgotten."
If I decide to argue in your typical fashion, I'll ask
1. If the dead no longer have a reward, why then is there resurrection and judgement of the dead.
Rev 20:12: "And I saw the dead , the small and the great, stand before God. And books were opened, and another book was opened, [which is] the Book of Life. And the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works."
2. If the memory of the dead are forgotten, how come we still remembers hero's of Faith like Abraham, Gideon, Enoch, etc?


That has been done check my previous posts to you. I will not repeat myself.

4. His breath goeth forth, he returneth to his earth; in that very
day his thoughts perish . Psalms 146:4.
5. For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not
any thing Ecclesiastes 9:5 (part)

How did Samuel know Saul?



www.creation-science-prophecy.com/dead.htm

shadeyinka:
Jesus did not go to heaven. And He didn't tell the "good thief" he'll be going to heaven but Paradise!



1. 1Sam 28:12: "And the woman saw Samuel, and cried with a loud voice. And the woman spoke to Saul, saying, Why have you deceived me? For you [are] Saul!"

2. 1Sam 28:14: "And he said to her, What [is] his form? And she said, An old man comes up, and he is covered with a cloak. And Saul saw that it was Samuel, and [he] bowed [his] face to the ground, and prostrated himself.

3. 1Sam 28:15: "And Samuel said to Saul, Why have you disturbed me, to bring me up?
And Saul answered, I am grievously distressed, for the Philistines are warring against me. And God has left me and does not answer me any more, neither by prophets nor by dreams. And I have called you so that you may make known to me what I should do."

4. 1Sam 28:16: "And Samuel said, Why then do you ask me, since the LORD has left you and has become your enemy?"

The witch saw Samuel
Saul saw that it was Samuel
Samuel spoke to Saul
Samuel judged Saul




You've entered into the error of assuming soul means just one definition instead of three
i. Person, People
ii. Will, Emotion and Intellect
iii. Self Identity.
In context, I saw the people who were beheaded (past tense)

Rev 6:9-11:
"And when He had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of those who had been slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held. And they cried with a loud voice, saying, Until when, Master, holy and true, do You not judge and avenge our blood on those who dwell on the earth? And white robes were given to each one of them. And it was said to them that they should rest yet for a little time, until both their fellow servants and their brothers (those about to be killed as they [were] ) should have their number made complete."

Even though physically dead, they were regarded as living (souls, people) for they were not unconscious and had their will, emotion and intellect complete. They were even told to have a little more patience untill their fellow brothers be also killed.


I've answered this before. Yes a person's personality, faculty exist with either his Spirit body or his Physical body. While Jesus body was in the tomb, was he unconscious? Was Jesus unconscious before his resurrection on the third day?


Even you know that death could mean
1. Physical death
2. Spiritual death
3. Second death.
Does a physically dead person's corpse feel or know anything? Isn't this the context?
Has my argument ever been that corpse are alive and know or feel things?

Eccl 9:5:
"At least the living know they will die, but the dead know nothing; they no longer have a reward, since memory about them has been forgotten."
If I decide to argue in your typical fashion, I'll ask
1. If the dead no longer have a reward, why then is there resurrection and judgement of the dead.
Rev 20:12: "And I saw the dead , the small and the great, stand before God. And books were opened, and another book was opened, [which is] the Book of Life. And the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works."
2. If the memory of the dead are forgotten, how come we still remembers hero's of Faith like Abraham, Gideon, Enoch, etc?


That has been done check my previous posts to you. I will not repeat myself.

The Sixth Question:
What about the rich man and Lazarus?
All through the Bible, it talks about death as a sleep. Jesus Himself, when
He heard of Lazarus's death, mentioned that he fell asleep.
11. These things He said, and after that He said to them, " Our
friend Lazarus sleeps , but I go that I may wake him up ."
12. Then His disciples said, "Lord, if he sleeps he will get well."
13. However, Jesus spoke of his death, but they thought that He
was speaking about taking rest in sleep.
14. Then Jesus said to them plainly , "Lazarus is dead ". John
11:11-14. NIV
So it should be clear that Jesus knew that dead people are as if they
were asleep. Also since the whole Bible, over and over, refers to the dead
as sleeping (over 60 times); If we took the Rich Man and Lazarus story of
Luke 16:19-31 literally, It would go against all the rest of the Bible. We
would be making one part of the Bible go against all the other parts of
scripture. It doesn't make sense that Jesus would say one day that the
dead sleep, and in another time, He says they think and do things. Since
the Rich man and lazarus story seems to go against the rest of the Bible,
it would seem that there is something wrong with our interpretation of
the story.
There is another point that the story does not fit with the rest of the
Bible (if we take a literal point of view of the story). At the second
coming of Jesus, He will sound the trumpet, and all the dead will rise.
15. According to the Lord's own word, we tell you that we who are
still alive, who are left till the coming of the Lord, will certainly not
precede those who have fallen asleep.
16. For the Lord himself will come down from heaven , with a loud
command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet
call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first .
17. After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up
together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air . And
so we will be with the Lord for ever .
18. Therefore encourage each other with these words. 1
Thessalonians 4:15-18
If the righteous dead are already alive and doing things, why does Jesus
have to wake them up when He comes the second time? They would
already be awake.
Lets look at the Rich Man and Lazarus story itself.
19. There was a certain rich man who was clothed in purple and
fine linen and fared sumptuously every day.
20. But there was a certain beggar named Lazarus, full of sores,
who was laid at his gate,
21. desiring to be fed with the crumbs which fell from the rich
man's table. Moreover the dogs came and licked his sores.
22. So it was that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels
to Abraham's bosom. The rich man also died and was buried.
23. And being in torments in Hades, he lifted up his eyes and saw
Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.
24. Then he cried and said, 'Father Abraham, have mercy on me,
and send Lazarus that he may dip the tip of his finger in water and
cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.'
25. But Abraham said, 'Son, remember that in your lifetime you
received your good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things; but now
he is comforted and you are tormented.
26. And besides all this, between us and you there is a great gulf
fixed, so that those who want to pass from here to you cannot, nor
can those from there pass to us.'
27. Then he said, 'I beg you therefore, father, that you would send
him to my father's house,
28. for I have five brothers, that he may testify to them, lest they
also come to this place of torment.'
29. Abraham said to him, 'They have Moses and the prophets; let
them hear them.'
30. And he said, 'No, father Abraham; but if one goes to them
from the dead, they will repent.'
31. But he said to him, 'If they do not hear Moses and the
prophets, neither will they be persuaded though one rise from the
dead.' Luke 16:19-31.
The story that Jesus gave about the rich man and Lazarus is either a
literally description or it is just a story or a parable.
Here are 4 reasons why it could not possibly be literalistic:
1. The beggar died and was taken by the angels to Abraham's
bosom. No one believes that Abraham's literal bosom is the abode
of the righteous dead. It is a figurative or parabolic expression. By
the way, the angels will gather the saints, but according to
Matthew 24:31, this will take place at the coming of Jesus, not at
a person's death.
30. Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven,
and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will
see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with
power and great glory.
31. And He will send His angels with a great sound of a
trumpet, and they will gather together His elect from the
four winds, from one end of heaven to the other . Matthew
24:30-31.
2. Heaven and hell were separated by a gulf, and yet the persons in
each could converse with each other. There are probably few
individuals in the world who believe that this will be literally true of
the saved and the lost (Luke 16:26).
3. The rich man was in hell with a body. He had eyes, a tongue, etc.
(Luke 16:24). How did his body get into hellfire instead of into the
grave? I know of no one who teaches that the bodies of the wicked
go into hell as soon as they die. This story could not be literal.
4. The request for Lazarus to dip the tip of his finger in water and
come through the flames to cool the rich man's tongue is obviously
not literal. How much moisture would be left and how much relief
would it give? The whole story is unrealistic and parabolic.
Jesus told this story to make a point. That even if people came back
from the dead, it would not convince anyone! (Luke 16:31) Sure enough,
when the real Lazarus was raised from the dead, they still did not believe.
The Jews only wanted to kill him to hide the evidence.

shadeyinka:
Jesus did not go to heaven. And He didn't tell the "good thief" he'll be going to heaven but Paradise!



1. 1Sam 28:12: "And the woman saw Samuel, and cried with a loud voice. And the woman spoke to Saul, saying, Why have you deceived me? For you [are] Saul!"

2. 1Sam 28:14: "And he said to her, What [is] his form? And she said, An old man comes up, and he is covered with a cloak. And Saul saw that it was Samuel, and [he] bowed [his] face to the ground, and prostrated himself.

3. 1Sam 28:15: "And Samuel said to Saul, Why have you disturbed me, to bring me up?
And Saul answered, I am grievously distressed, for the Philistines are warring against me. And God has left me and does not answer me any more, neither by prophets nor by dreams. And I have called you so that you may make known to me what I should do."

4. 1Sam 28:16: "And Samuel said, Why then do you ask me, since the LORD has left you and has become your enemy?"

The witch saw Samuel
Saul saw that it was Samuel
Samuel spoke to Saul
Samuel judged Saul




You've entered into the error of assuming soul means just one definition instead of three
i. Person, People
ii. Will, Emotion and Intellect
iii. Self Identity.
In context, I saw the people who were beheaded (past tense)

Rev 6:9-11:
"And when He had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of those who had been slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held. And they cried with a loud voice, saying, Until when, Master, holy and true, do You not judge and avenge our blood on those who dwell on the earth? And white robes were given to each one of them. And it was said to them that they should rest yet for a little time, until both their fellow servants and their brothers (those about to be killed as they [were] ) should have their number made complete."

Even though physically dead, they were regarded as living (souls, people) for they were not unconscious and had their will, emotion and intellect complete. They were even told to have a little more patience untill their fellow brothers be also killed.


I've answered this before. Yes a person's personality, faculty exist with either his Spirit body or his Physical body. While Jesus body was in the tomb, was he unconscious? Was Jesus unconscious before his resurrection on the third day?


Even you know that death could mean
1. Physical death
2. Spiritual death
3. Second death.
Does a physically dead person's corpse feel or know anything? Isn't this the context?
Has my argument ever been that corpse are alive and know or feel things?

Eccl 9:5:
"At least the living know they will die, but the dead know nothing; they no longer have a reward, since memory about them has been forgotten."
If I decide to argue in your typical fashion, I'll ask
1. If the dead no longer have a reward, why then is there resurrection and judgement of the dead.
Rev 20:12: "And I saw the dead , the small and the great, stand before God. And books were opened, and another book was opened, [which is] the Book of Life. And the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works."
2. If the memory of the dead are forgotten, how come we still remembers hero's of Faith like Abraham, Gideon, Enoch, etc?


That has been done check my previous posts to you. I will not repeat myself.

How did Samuel reconginze Saul? since the memory of the dead is perished.

5. For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not
any thing , neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of
them is forgotten.
6. Also their love, and their hatred, and their envy, is now
perished; neither have they any more a portion for ever in any thing
that is done under the sun. Ecclesiastes 9:5-6.

shadeyinka:
Jesus did not go to heaven. And He didn't tell the "good thief" he'll be going to heaven but Paradise!



1. 1Sam 28:12: "And the woman saw Samuel, and cried with a loud voice. And the woman spoke to Saul, saying, Why have you deceived me? For you [are] Saul!"

2. 1Sam 28:14: "And he said to her, What [is] his form? And she said, An old man comes up, and he is covered with a cloak. And Saul saw that it was Samuel, and [he] bowed [his] face to the ground, and prostrated himself.

3. 1Sam 28:15: "And Samuel said to Saul, Why have you disturbed me, to bring me up?
And Saul answered, I am grievously distressed, for the Philistines are warring against me. And God has left me and does not answer me any more, neither by prophets nor by dreams. And I have called you so that you may make known to me what I should do."

4. 1Sam 28:16: "And Samuel said, Why then do you ask me, since the LORD has left you and has become your enemy?"

The witch saw Samuel
Saul saw that it was Samuel
Samuel spoke to Saul
Samuel judged Saul




You've entered into the error of assuming soul means just one definition instead of three
i. Person, People
ii. Will, Emotion and Intellect
iii. Self Identity.
In context, I saw the people who were beheaded (past tense)

Rev 6:9-11:
"And when He had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of those who had been slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held. And they cried with a loud voice, saying, Until when, Master, holy and true, do You not judge and avenge our blood on those who dwell on the earth? And white robes were given to each one of them. And it was said to them that they should rest yet for a little time, until both their fellow servants and their brothers (those about to be killed as they [were] ) should have their number made complete."

Even though physically dead, they were regarded as living (souls, people) for they were not unconscious and had their will, emotion and intellect complete. They were even told to have a little more patience untill their fellow brothers be also killed.


I've answered this before. Yes a person's personality, faculty exist with either his Spirit body or his Physical body. While Jesus body was in the tomb, was he unconscious? Was Jesus unconscious before his resurrection on the third day?


Even you know that death could mean
1. Physical death
2. Spiritual death
3. Second death.
Does a physically dead person's corpse feel or know anything? Isn't this the context?
Has my argument ever been that corpse are alive and know or feel things?

Eccl 9:5:
"At least the living know they will die, but the dead know nothing; they no longer have a reward, since memory about them has been forgotten."
If I decide to argue in your typical fashion, I'll ask
1. If the dead no longer have a reward, why then is there resurrection and judgement of the dead.
Rev 20:12: "And I saw the dead , the small and the great, stand before God. And books were opened, and another book was opened, [which is] the Book of Life. And the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works."
2. If the memory of the dead are forgotten, how come we still remembers hero's of Faith like Abraham, Gideon, Enoch, etc?


That has been done check my previous posts to you. I will not repeat myself.

Samuel or was it an impostor?
Was Samuel actually raised up from the dead? Many believe that Samuel
really came down from heaven. But did either of these things happen?
13. And the king said to her, "Do not be afraid. What did you see?"
And the woman said to Saul, " I saw a spirit ascending out of the
earth ."
14. So he said to her, ÒWhat is his form?Ó And she said, "An old
man is coming up, and he is covered with a mantle." And Saul
perceived that it was Samuel, and he stooped with his face to the
ground and bowed down.
15. Now Samuel said to Saul, "Why have you disturbed me by
bringing me up? " . . . 1 Samuel 28:13-15
If Samuel was truly righteous, many people would think that he would be
in heaven. If he came from heaven, why would he still be an old man. Are
not the righteous given new bodies when they go to heaven? Yet this
Samuel is said to be a spirit without a body. Why then is he still looking
old?
In the verses above we find that both the witch and the person, said to
be Samuel, both indicated that he came up from the earth and not down
from heaven. That must mean from the dead. This raises another
question: Can a witch or even Satan raise a dead person to life from their
grave? Only God can raise people to life. That is why we wait for the last
day when Jesus comes to raise up the righteous people.
The spirit that looked and sounded like Samuel, was not Samuel at all.
But it was an imposter, probably Satan. By asking questions the following
verses say we should seek God and not the dead:
19. And when they say to you, "Seek those who are mediums and
wizards, who whisper and mutter," should not a people seek their
God? Should they seek the dead on behalf of the living?
20. To the law and to the testimony! If they do not speak
according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.
Isaiah 8:19-20
We must not seek questions from the dead, but rather we should seek
our God that we can ask Him questions! He is the one who made us and
He will give us straight answers found in the Bible!
The dead that speak is a lie from the beginning since they are really
demons in disguise.
Manassah was an extremely wicked king of Israel:
2. And he did evil in the sight of the LORD, according to the
abominations of the nations whom the LORD had cast out before
the children of Israel. 2 Kings 21:2
After a full list of the evil things he did, the following is included:
6. Also he made his son pass through the fire, practiced
soothsaying, used witchcraft, and consulted spiritists and mediums .
He did much evil in the sight of the LORD, to provoke Him to
anger. 2 Kings 21:6
In the Bible, the act of going to a medium or wizard was considered an
extremely evil thing to do. What it is, you are actually going to the
enemy! It is Satan and/or his evil angels or demons that you are getting
information from. It is no wonder that God calls it an abomination. All
throughout the Bible, it is condemned. Look at the following Scripture:
31. 'Give no regard to mediums and familiar spirits ; do not seek
after them, to be defiled by them: I am the LORD your God.
Leviticus 19:31
6. 'And the person who turns to mediums and familiar spirits , to
prostitute himself with them, I will set My face against that person
and cut him off from his people . Leviticus 20:6
This is very serious! God will turn His back on you and you will be lost
when you seek mediums and familiar spirits. It is witchcraft!
27. 'A man or a woman who is a medium, or who has familiar
spirits , shall surely be put to death; they shall stone them with
stones . Their blood shall be upon them.'" Leviticus 20:27
10. "There shall not be found among you anyone who makes his
son or his daughter pass through the fire, or one who practices
witchcraft, or a soothsayer, or one who interprets omens, or a
sorcerer,
11. "or one who conjures spells, or a medium, or a spiritist, or one
who calls up the dead .
12. "For all who do these things are an abomination to the LORD,
and because of these abominations the LORD your God drives
them out from before you. Deuteronomy 18:10-12
18. "You shall not permit a sorceress to live . Exodus 22:18
In the New Testament we see that an evil spirit came out of the person
who did fortune-telling:
16. Now it happened, as we went to prayer, that a certain slave
girl possessed with a spirit of divination met us, who brought her
masters much profit by fortune-telling.
17. This girl followed Paul and us, and cried out, saying, "These
men are the servants of the Most High God, who proclaim to us
the way of salvation."
18. And this she did for many days. But Paul, greatly annoyed,
turned and said to the spirit, " I command you in the name of Jesus
Christ to come out of her ." And he came out that very hour. Acts
16:16-18

shadeyinka:
Jesus did not go to heaven. And He didn't tell the "good thief" he'll be going to heaven but Paradise!



1. 1Sam 28:12: "And the woman saw Samuel, and cried with a loud voice. And the woman spoke to Saul, saying, Why have you deceived me? For you [are] Saul!"

2. 1Sam 28:14: "And he said to her, What [is] his form? And she said, An old man comes up, and he is covered with a cloak. And Saul saw that it was Samuel, and [he] bowed [his] face to the ground, and prostrated himself.

3. 1Sam 28:15: "And Samuel said to Saul, Why have you disturbed me, to bring me up?
And Saul answered, I am grievously distressed, for the Philistines are warring against me. And God has left me and does not answer me any more, neither by prophets nor by dreams. And I have called you so that you may make known to me what I should do."

4. 1Sam 28:16: "And Samuel said, Why then do you ask me, since the LORD has left you and has become your enemy?"

The witch saw Samuel
Saul saw that it was Samuel
Samuel spoke to Saul
Samuel judged Saul




You've entered into the error of assuming soul means just one definition instead of three
i. Person, People
ii. Will, Emotion and Intellect
iii. Self Identity.
In context, I saw the people who were beheaded (past tense)

Rev 6:9-11:
"And when He had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of those who had been slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held. And they cried with a loud voice, saying, Until when, Master, holy and true, do You not judge and avenge our blood on those who dwell on the earth? And white robes were given to each one of them. And it was said to them that they should rest yet for a little time, until both their fellow servants and their brothers (those about to be killed as they [were] ) should have their number made complete."

Even though physically dead, they were regarded as living (souls, people) for they were not unconscious and had their will, emotion and intellect complete. They were even told to have a little more patience untill their fellow brothers be also killed.


I've answered this before. Yes a person's personality, faculty exist with either his Spirit body or his Physical body. While Jesus body was in the tomb, was he unconscious? Was Jesus unconscious before his resurrection on the third day?


Even you know that death could mean
1. Physical death
2. Spiritual death
3. Second death.
Does a physically dead person's corpse feel or know anything? Isn't this the context?
Has my argument ever been that corpse are alive and know or feel things?

Eccl 9:5:
"At least the living know they will die, but the dead know nothing; they no longer have a reward, since memory about them has been forgotten."
If I decide to argue in your typical fashion, I'll ask
1. If the dead no longer have a reward, why then is there resurrection and judgement of the dead.
Rev 20:12: "And I saw the dead , the small and the great, stand before God. And books were opened, and another book was opened, [which is] the Book of Life. And the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works."
2. If the memory of the dead are forgotten, how come we still remembers hero's of Faith like Abraham, Gideon, Enoch, etc?


That has been done check my previous posts to you. I will not repeat myself.

Yes death could mean spiritual or physical how does it prove that the dead can speak or think?


Yes Jesus was 100% uncouncious in the tomb.

Which one is spirit body?

You are getting more deillusioned by the day.


Since you take it literally the question is do Souls have physical bodies to wear white robes?

Its is the dead who their memories are forgetten not the living.

shadeyinka:
Jesus did not go to heaven. And He didn't tell the "good thief" he'll be going to heaven but Paradise!



1. 1Sam 28:12: "And the woman saw Samuel, and cried with a loud voice. And the woman spoke to Saul, saying, Why have you deceived me? For you [are] Saul!"

2. 1Sam 28:14: "And he said to her, What [is] his form? And she said, An old man comes up, and he is covered with a cloak. And Saul saw that it was Samuel, and [he] bowed [his] face to the ground, and prostrated himself.

3. 1Sam 28:15: "And Samuel said to Saul, Why have you disturbed me, to bring me up?
And Saul answered, I am grievously distressed, for the Philistines are warring against me. And God has left me and does not answer me any more, neither by prophets nor by dreams. And I have called you so that you may make known to me what I should do."

4. 1Sam 28:16: "And Samuel said, Why then do you ask me, since the LORD has left you and has become your enemy?"

The witch saw Samuel
Saul saw that it was Samuel
Samuel spoke to Saul
Samuel judged Saul




You've entered into the error of assuming soul means just one definition instead of three
i. Person, People
ii. Will, Emotion and Intellect
iii. Self Identity.
In context, I saw the people who were beheaded (past tense)

Rev 6:9-11:
"And when He had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of those who had been slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held. And they cried with a loud voice, saying, Until when, Master, holy and true, do You not judge and avenge our blood on those who dwell on the earth? And white robes were given to each one of them. And it was said to them that they should rest yet for a little time, until both their fellow servants and their brothers (those about to be killed as they [were] ) should have their number made complete."

Even though physically dead, they were regarded as living (souls, people) for they were not unconscious and had their will, emotion and intellect complete. They were even told to have a little more patience untill their fellow brothers be also killed.


I've answered this before. Yes a person's personality, faculty exist with either his Spirit body or his Physical body. While Jesus body was in the tomb, was he unconscious? Was Jesus unconscious before his resurrection on the third day?


Even you know that death could mean
1. Physical death
2. Spiritual death
3. Second death.
Does a physically dead person's corpse feel or know anything? Isn't this the context?
Has my argument ever been that corpse are alive and know or feel things?

Eccl 9:5:
"At least the living know they will die, but the dead know nothing; they no longer have a reward, since memory about them has been forgotten."
If I decide to argue in your typical fashion, I'll ask
1. If the dead no longer have a reward, why then is there resurrection and judgement of the dead.
Rev 20:12: "And I saw the dead , the small and the great, stand before God. And books were opened, and another book was opened, [which is] the Book of Life. And the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works."
2. If the memory of the dead are forgotten, how come we still remembers hero's of Faith like Abraham, Gideon, Enoch, etc?


That has been done check my previous posts to you. I will not repeat myself.

So Paradise is different from Heaven?

The Bible cannot contradict itself. God word says that the dead know nothing neither do they eat, talk or praise God. so it will be impossible for Samuel to know anything or say anything to Saul.

That implies That a Demon impersonated Samuel and deceived the Witch woman and Saul.


The Dead do not Know Anything
The Bible is very plain. It says the dead do not know anything. Look at
this text:
5. For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not
any thing , neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of
them is forgotten.
6. Also their love, and their hatred, and their envy, is now
perished; neither have they any more a portion for ever in any thing
that is done under the sun.
10. Whatsoever thy hand findeth to do, do it with thy might; for
there is no work, nor device, nor knowledge, nor wisdom, in the
grave , whither thou goest. Ecclesiastes 9:5-6,10.
Now for the first time we see death described. "The dead know not any
thing!" Everything about them is gone, their memory, their love, their
hatred, their envy, and they no longer act. They are asleep. They are
nonexistent.
4. His breath goeth forth, he returneth to his earth; in that very
day his thoughts perish . Psalms 146:4.
Again we see that when the breath of life goes back to God and the body
returns to dust, that their thoughts perish. It should be clear that the dead
cannot talk, or think or do anything. They essentially no longer exist as a
living thinking person.
This agrees with what we saw before. Adam became a living person. He
became a living soul. So now, when we die, we cease from being a living
person. We cease from being a living soul. We no longer exist because
our thoughts perish.
This also agrees with Jesus' description of death. He called it sleep as
we saw earlier.
There is more.
17. The dead praise not the LORD, neither any that go down into
silence .
18. But we will bless the LORD from this time forth and for
evermore. Praise the LORD. Psalms 115:17-18.
So a major difference is made. The dead cannot praise God at all but
those who live can.
4. Return, O LORD, deliver my soul: oh save me for thy mercies'
sake.
5. For in death there is no remembrance of thee: in the grave who
shall give thee thanks ? Psalms 6:4-5.
17. Behold, for peace I had great bitterness: but thou hast in love
to my soul delivered it from the pit of corruption: for thou hast cast
all my sins behind thy back.
18. For the grave cannot praise thee, death can not celebrate
thee: they that go down into the pit cannot hope for thy truth .
19. The living, the living, he shall praise thee, as I do this day: the
father to the children shall make known thy truth. Job 38:17-19.
Apparently a few of the writers in Psalms and also Job, are pleading to
be delivered by God. They are saying to God that they can praise Him if
they are alive but if they die they can no longer give God thanks.
31. Who shall declare his way to his face? And who shall repay
him what he hath done?
32. Yet shall he be brought to the grave , and shall remain in the
tomb. Job 21:31-32.
9. As the cloud is consumed and vanisheth away: so he that goeth
down to the grave shall come up no more.
10. He shall return no more to his house, neither shall his place
know him any more.
11. Therefore I will not refrain my mouth; I will speak in the
anguish of my spirit; I will complain in the bitterness of my soul.
Job 7:9-11
Job sees that his only future is the grave and death. Job sees this fate of
his as depressing to the point that he is anguishing in bitterness over his
death and does not stop complaining to God.
However, as we will see in the next few sections that there is indeed a
promise of a bright future for God's people who descend into the sleep of
the grave.