₦airaland Forum

@ diddy4

i am getting sick of all this , are people suffering from amnesia or what? Israel this Israel that, what have they done? How long will they allow themselve be target training for every terrorist network? Please, in my opinion Israel is not doing enough, They should do us all a fav and wipe them off the face of the earth. No fuking apologies to anybody for this comment at all.

Innocent lives as you call it, yes, is that not what they swines said when they were slaying Aid workers in Iraq? they said'' they are just casualties of war'' ok Lebanon can go bury their casualities. had enough of all this political correctness, let play happy people, hippie loving, aww poor lebanon, awww poor iran, iraq, afghans, etc please Israel is not sending foot soldiers on their buses , trains, aeroplanes in the name of war. They are responding rightly

No one is arguing against your point mi amigo! But I am throwing out the qustion about concern for innocent deaths anyway. In summary it seems you are not the least concerned.

Thanks for your commentery.

The subject of which day is the sabbath is really not the issue as most christians already know which day that is. The real issue lies with whether or not the sabbath is still applicable to christians.

If you are searching for a reference that says that the Seventh-day sabbath was changed to Sunday upon the authority of Christ, or any of His disciples/apostles, in order to reflect the importance of Christ raising on a Sunday, you will not find it. No Sunday-supporting christians has been able to honestly show from scripture such a change.

So where did the change come from? How did Sunday happen to slide its way into the christian culture? Well, are you aware that Daniel spoke about the beast power that would actually attempt to change God's set laws and times. The four beast mentioned in Daniel chapter 7, were 4 kingdoms that would have ruled one after the other beginning with Babylon the Great. daniel saw a:

1) a lion with two wings which represented Babylon

2) a bear being rasied up on one side which represented the twin kingdom of Media & Persia

3) a leapord with 4 heads and 4 wings which represented Greece

4) a non-descript beast (meaning a beast that was not seen by Daniel as belonging to the known animal kingdom) which represented Rome. This beast had 10 horns which in themselves would represent the initial european kingdoms that would follow Rome after its demise.

If you read what happens after after Daniel introduced the 4th kingdom of Rome, you'd have noticed that he paid particular attention to a little horn that grew out from the 10 horns of the 4th beast. It is this little horn that woulld later up-root three of the 10 horns.

Most bible scholars agree, including famous pastors who lead Sunday churches, that that little horn no doubt represented the Roman Catholic church. No one has yet to refute that. Notice what Daniel said about this little horn:


23 "He gave me this explanation: 'The fourth beast is a fourth kingdom that will appear on earth. It will be different from all the other kingdoms and will devour the whole earth, trampling it down and crushing it. 24 The ten horns are ten kings who will come from this kingdom.

After them another king will arise, different from the earlier ones; he will subdue three kings. 25 He will speak against the Most High and oppress his saints and try to change the set times and the laws. The saints will be handed over to him for a time, times and half a time.

This little horn is referred to as another king among the 10 kings that came after Rome fell. It would eventually strike off the map three of these 10 kingdoms namely the Heruleans, the Astrogoths, and the vandals.

The little horn would speak against the Most High God

The little horn would oppress or persecute God's saints

The little horn would try to change the set(established) times, and the laws

The little horn would have dominion over the saints for 3 1/2 prophetic years = 1260 days = 1260yrs.

This little horn no doubt represents the Roman Catholic church that has become a very powerful religio-political power. From AD538 - AD1798 she ruled europe with an iron fist. She used the state to kill millions of bible-believing christians who refused to either accept the mass, or acknowledge the pope as the Vicar of the Son of God.

It is this same power that has introduced pagan religious festivals with a christian flavour including Sunday worship, Easter, Christmas, etc. All these day have pagan connection.

St. Paul started to see the signs in the first century when he spoke of the man of sin that would sit in the temple of God calling himself God.

The only way that our christian brothers from the Sunday-gathering churches can argue is to try and knock the law of God, ie 10 commandment law, because they know that if they uphold the 10 commandments, which they do anyway, and which includes the seventh-day, they would have to confess that Saturday is the Lord's day. In their attempt to support Sunday they show no distinction between the eternal and the transcient. They group the ceremonial laws with God's moral law, and from which Paul obviously makes a distinction. ( Compare Romans 7 with Galations 3,4)

Of the 7 or 8 bible references that make mention of the first day of the week, none have directly said that Sunday is the new Lord's day.

There are no direct reference for such an important change to which they speak, neither from Christ nor from His representatives.

The argument about not being under the law must be taken in context. I am prepared to listen as well as give reasons from the bible why God's seventh-day sabbath is very much alive and well, both from a historical and biblical pint of view.

Shalom.

Terrorist organisations are an exception since Hizbollah and Hamas have no scruples about strapping a bomb to 16 year old boys and girls to blow up themselves and other Israelis then you must get rid of them anyhow Hizbollah is to blame if they want to fight Israel they should come out into the battle field and fight like men not hide under the skirts of women and children launch rockets and go to hide under their wifes bed so inevitably Israel kill civilians. Negotiate with terrorists that is commited solely to the total anhiliation of Israel as their charters state so Israel should destroy all Hizbollah and their supporters

One thing is certain is that the Hizbollahs are defeating their own cause. They should have known that Israel would out arm them, yet they initiated a provacation.

Can you imagine that these people are cousins? They are both descendants of Abraham. You see what happens when people act outside of God's will and plan. If Abraham hadn't gone and lay with Hagar probably all this would n't be happening now.

Imagine how God must feel when he looks down and see what His creation has become. Sad isn't it?

@ eurimoor

Ok my friend I have decided to take a different approach since my style of presentation seems to have people, especially on this board reacting in different ways.

Ok what I would like for you to do for me is to give in simple language what exactly is the secret rapture and all the relevant texts to go with it.

What I will do is simply ask about what confuses me, instead of simply just saying "no sir that can't be" so that you will provide some answers to solve that problem. Fair enough?

Shalom!

People say they love each other yet ending up hurting each other. Why do you think that happens?

What kind of preventative measures did you have in mind? Care to share some?

No I am for Israel! I just wanted to know how people felt about the bombings as it affects civilians, and especially children.

I realize that Israel is in a sticky situation, but do you want to tell me that nations like the US and others who have a stake in the Middle East can't help both countries to reach a settlement as yet?

, or do you think that Israel has no choice but to send a message? What do you think?

I grow more and mre concerned as I view the news about innocent children being killed by aerial bombings.

Under18 really sorry to hear about your situation. Only God knows what your family is going through right now. The truth is your sister needs to test for HIV real soon, and the sooner the better. The chances of her beating the odds will depend on her starting medication as soon as possible.

I know Nairaland family members will be praying for you, and so will I. I am health consultant and I'd like for you to contact me. You can go to my profile and look up my email so that we can talk about the matter. I have some suggestions I'd like to make.

God bless.

@ zebudaya

if its coming from the colon, then your breath would smell like $hit?

In some cases it does smell that way! Unfortunately, I have met some like that.

Also add John 15:13,14

13 Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends.14 Ye are my friends, if ye do whatsoever I command you.

@ nferyn

Bobbyaf,

In that case, I'm basically spiritual (most of the time), but without a belief in God. I just wonder what sets a spiritual person apart from a good, selfless person?

Only you can answer this yourself. Are you at the point where you're striving to be at peace with yourself? The spirituality of which I speak makes you at peace with yourself and all those around you. Until we desire to reach that point of loving all people with whom we come in contact, then our spiritual quest will be short circuited.

So from what I have said you might have picked up that it is all about sacrificing self for the well being of others because you love them. In this life with its limited resources its all about self and what you can gain.

Listen to a familiar passage of scripture:

John 13:35
By this shall all men know that ye are my disciples, if ye have love one to another.

Ok goodly people l have given much thought to my two last responses and realised that I have allowed my self to get the better of me. It really shouldn't have gotten this far regardless of how provoked the situation might have appeared to me.

Whatever mis-understanding that might have come from my responses that may have caused any hurt or frustration, my regret and sincere apologies are quite in order. As adults I believe we can do better, and should do better, and I hope that no hard feelings will continue as we seek to share what we understand re God's word.

Shalom.

I read some of the refutations from the first website.

Did you see the streaming video? What are your views concerning the polonium halos.

@Bhola

In light of this development, I think we should all join hands and pray for Bobbyaf. I mean, that is a big and offensive thing to say or think or type. In the process of trying to drive home his point, he has committed a big no-no.

I appreciate the jesture, but trust me you'd be praying for the wrong reason. Pray for me yes because everyone over here needs prayer, but if your prayer is going to be based on what you thought I did that was so evil then forget it. Please pray that the good Lord will give you a spirit of discernment to see prejudice and provocation commited by your friends, Ok? They are the ones you need to pray for with their spirit of judgemental attitude.


@ Baricade

I can't believe what I'm reading. In trying to prove a point one has to call God "stupid", and even emphatically state that 'It must be'? This is a very serious matter, and God Himself will deal with the one who calls Him stupid.

I didn't say God is stupid Baricade, and I certainly didn't mean it to come out the way you guys are thinking. First I asked a question and followed up stating that it must be, based on what I thought to be mis-information being said about God's word, and obviously since it is God's words he is using to prove a point. In other words if God says something in one section of the bible that is an accepted truth, and comes again somewhere else to say the opposite, based on someone's misunderstanding, then the person presenting the untruth is actually making out God to be stupid. My intent was that the person debating me made God look stupid, by mis-representing God.

How can anyone read the context of the argument and come up with a silly conclusion that Bobby said that God is stupid and He must be, and how evil Bobby's remarks must have been? I find the whole thing so hilarious the way you guys carry on. Wha are you trying to prove?

Why didn't you guys who are casting aspersions take it from a different angle and ask me to explain such a sarcastic expression? Instead you guys have ganged up against this Nairaland newly-crowned enemy with every intention to embarrass by making me look as if I am the antagonist.

Did you think that by creating alarm that that was the Christ-like approach to take?

All I am asking is that we move on and let bygones be bygones. Don't allow the devil to win another battle.

@ kenshin

If i worship God on Sunday He Hears me, if I worship Him on Saturday He's There, so what does it matter?

Thats true my brother, but the issue is a much larger one. I don't think anyone is saying that God doesn't hear people who gather both on Sundays or the sabbath.

What the thread seeks to prove, I assume, is whether the bible as said by some, teaches that Sunday is now the Lord's day which is a reflection of the New Covenant.

Moves were made by some to argue that the seventh-day sabbath from creation, and which has been embedded in the 10 commandments and given to Moses, is no longer applicable to us as christians. It is argued that the same seventh-day sabbath was apart of the Mosaic laws, and hence was nailed to the cross. This is where I disagree.

My argument continues to be the opposite, based on certain unchanging principles found in the word of God. I have attempted to make a distinction between God's eternal law of 10 commandments, and the ceremonial laws that were written by Moses, and which were meant to be temporary.

It is seemingly logical to those who oppose my argument to think that if the sabbath was abolished then Sunday was now the new day for NT christians. Unfortunately, for my friends, they have not been able to find any scripture that clearly shows an authority for such a change by Christ or His disciples.

Their only approach is to downplay the 10 commandments law by misreading Paul's writings. Of course I am not saying that Paul's writings are all that easy to understand anyway, but until a christian prayerfully studies he cannot percieve the things of God. This calls for fasting and prayer.

If you are prepared and willing you can check out this website called:

www.amazingfacts.org

You can either browse through the storacle lessons or study guides.

If you choose not to thats ok, but

Shalom.

Just to make something abundantly clear to you guys who are on a smear campagne, that God knows your motives. Be careful how you go about trying to make others look bad soley on the basis that we don't see eey to eye.

Clearly this got out of control because of how some of you chose to word your responses to me, and I am honest enough to absorb some of the blame for responding similarly. Don't decieve yourself into thinking that any of you are saints on this religious board. Some of you in your little clique/club are so self-absorbed, that instead of reading through the posts and see where things got messed up by your own friends and sympathisers, you instead chose to take sides unfairly without knowing the facts.

Instead of continuing this childish behaviour why not move on, and start afresh. If you all choose not to dialogue with me any further well say so, and stop playing the religious hypocrites you're obviously making out yourselves to be.

Can you challenge youselves not to continue adding fuel to the fire, and let us move on as christians. Is that too hard a request?

@ Tayod

I will appreciate if you do not second-guess my intentions. If I choose not to believe the best of you, I could accuse you of calling me dubious and conceited, but I wont go that route. It seems to me you have a problem with accepting things that people say. Could it be that you place that much little value on words as you seem to believe others do? How would you like me to relate with you with sceptism, believing you mean something else when you are telling me another? Maybe you do not understand that you are passing such a message across, but that is exactly what I am getting from your contribution. If you care to read my intro, I gave the reason why I started the thread and the person involved never contributed to the Chris Okotie discussion, and he has been here to contribute his 2 cents. So, while I can't help your reviling of that Man of God, I can at least defend my stancce which I believe is biblically based, and this I shall do in parts.

To start, I think you should define for us, what the Bible means by "civilian affairs". If I understand what you are driving at, you seem to equate "civilian afairs" to politics, or better still democracy. Please correct me if I'm wrong. While you are on that quest, please try and tell us also how 1 John 2:15-16 which you quoted relates to politics. What is the "world" as described within that scripture? And if I may throw this in, why does the Bible say for God so loved the world, and yet we are not to love the world? Doesn't that make you think that we need to balance scripture with scripture before we make conclusions?

I never insinuated that Jesus encouraged mixing church and politics together. Do you understand what I wrote at all? If anything, I tried to bring a balance to that quote by saying that the general context probably suggests that Jesus could as well be refering only to financial matters.

So now, Jesus no longer issues "commands' but only suggestions!!! Your lame effort to attach your meaning to that verse is evidenced by saying Jesus was talking about order. If that is so, why would he mention Ceasar ahead of God? So are we to give first to Ceasar before we think about God? You need to think deeper about the implications of your statements before you make them.

I hope to respond to your other posts subsequently, but in the mean time, please try and use the scriptures "scripturally". I have told you this several times but it seems your emotions and prejudice just takes the better of you.

And by the way, you know I love you, so be careful with me when responding as i can't handle kayuta rockets like Isreal is doing with Hezbollah.

Well said my friend!

My goodly brother might just be misunderstanding you from the get-go!

As I said before I agree with you 1000%. Christ knew that not everything about Caesar's kingdom was evil. Kings, emperors, were no exception to the plan of salvation. He came to die for all, and that is why "God so loved the world, "

If we had more practising christians in our parliaments our countries would be far better. Joseph, Daniel served dynasties as Prime Ministers that were at large against God's rule. It witnessed some of those kings and emperors acknowledging the God of heaven.

The only problem I have with the state is when it gets too eager to regulate one's conscience. As long as it stays clear of that I find no problem following the command of Jesus to render what is due to the state.

@ Tayod

I wouldn't want to disagree with you two (Drusilla and TV01), just for the sake of keeping this conversation going, but I want to point out one important fact that I think you both missed in your write-ups. Jesus wasn't offering us a suggestion when He made that statement, it was actually a command. To make matters more serious, He actually asked us to give unto Ceasar as much as we will give unto God. Our dedication to Ceasar must be total as much as our dedication to God is total. This is actually something that was difficult for me to swallow until God revealed to me from the scriptures that the secular Government is actually an extension of God's authority on earth, and you all know how much God frowns at violation of constituted authority.

I agree with you on this point. Romans 13 gives credence to what you are saying.

I am of the opinion that Jesus wanted to leave in the minds of the disciples the matter of showing respect even to a governing power that had no respect for other beliefs. In other words intolerance should be met with love and respect, and humilty, and not with resistance.

I am also seeing the bigger lesson that the real kingdom is to come soon, so don't worry about how powerful this present kingdom appears to be, and especially how subdued the disciples felt under Roman sway. They were encouraged to become submissive which will go a far way in expanding the work of ministry later on.

So Oracle are you saying that the OT doesn't deal with grace?

And in that light can you define grace for me?

I wouldn't know. I have no idea what spiritual things are.

Ok. Let me see If I can make it a little easier. As you know everything needs a frame of reference so as to separate things into good or bad, right? Being spiritual means being good, kind, caring, unselfsih, etc.

Obviously. Isn't that the essence of being human?

Not necessarily. Humans in general are basically selfish. Just take a look around and you will see that. Some people only do good because they desire good in return. A spiritual person does it just for doing it, but with pure motives. Their only source of joy is service.

Its only as God comes into the heart and changes us that we are able to become spiritual, or better yet commence the spiritual journey.

How so? I don't understand

Because part of the reason for being spiritual is standing for that which is right. Standing for sound principles. Today we are bombarded with all sorts of values. The choice we make helps others to see the kind of spiritual development that is taking place in each and every one.

Hence a spiritual person will not do harm to himself/herself or do harm to others because of the values that such a person has come to accept.

Hi everyone I have read with interest what some have said, but I want to address Darkchild re his question about the trinity.

The word Trinity as you might be aware doesn't exist in the bible as a word, but it implies a tri-une God. If you see the word God as a title you are closer home to understanding why there are three persons that make up this Deity.

The word "God" in the OT writings of Moses always exist in the plural. When he declared that the "Lord thy God is one God" the word Elohim was used as a plural noun from the hebrew.

There are a few instances in the OT that tend to point to a government that is headed by more than one absolute beings. In Genesis it says "let us make man in our image, " It also says in the same book that when God was about to confuse the language of men for building a forbidden tower it suggested a plurality of consensus. "let us go down and confound their language"

Why would Moses write in such a language if there were not more than one personality? But the question still lingers about the "One God, "

The word One means united. If we are to accept that when a man and his wife become one that it doesn't mean a literal oneness in flesh, then it shouldn't be that difficult to see what the "One" means when used by Moses.

When Jesus who was introduced as the Son of God said that "I and the Father are One" did He mean that they were the same or was it that He meant that they were in unity?

Listen to Paul as he describes the status of Jesus before He incarnated as a man:

Philipian 2:5,6
5 Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus: 6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:

Why would Paul make such a statement about equality between who we call Christ and the Father? In other words before Christ came to bring about salvation, He shared the same title as His Father, and that title is what we call God. Both shared the same title, because they both possess the same substance previously, and they both shared the same authority.

However when Christ took on the submissive role and became a man He had to go through the rudiments of understanding what we would go through as humans. He wasn't forced to come. He who made us became one of us to save us. Our Creator became his own creation in order to redeem us.

Now here comes the mystery part, and that is the Holy Spirit. Not much has been said about this personality, but one thing we know is that He has a function,a nd it would seem that He is seperate from both God and the Son. Some belieev that both the Father and Son share the same Holy Spirit, while others belieev that the Spirit is just God's active force.

Whatever the case may be one thing is sure is that the bible makes reference to three distinct beings with distinct functions.

If you're interested there are biblical references to confirm.

Viper, Hahahahaha you are so amusing.

Seriously now, have you ever sat down and did a good study of whom the beast or anti-christ is? Where do you think would be the best place to start in terms of bible reference?

@ Viper

I am an Igbo-jew

Explain for the benefit of the board please!

You never had an interest in spritual things before? Have you ever felt sympathetic towards someone who is suffering? Once you show concern for good principle then thats apart of being spiritual.

@jagunlabi

Just wondering,do christians really need that part of the bible?Afterall the old testament is for "JUDAISM" and the new testament better serves the christians.
What do you christians need OT for?

Just wanted to point out that Jesus and His disciples never had a NT set of books as we have them today. Christ's character was shaped by his parents' guidance from the OT books.

All scripture the good book says are important for our instruction and correction.

You still haven't showed from any of the texts in Acts that the apostle Paul introduced a new day. The same texts in the book of Acta are shared by us to prove a point, but when you stop to look at those texts and what they are saying, anyone can pick a message of what they think the text is saying.

I have no problem with that because more than one messages or points can be had from one text, but to tell me that Paul only mentioned the sabbath because he went in unto the Jews is pointless. That in itself doesn't say that Paul wasn't a sabbath keeper. How do you expain this text:

"And on the sabbath we went out of the city by a river side, where prayer was wont to be made; and we sat down, and spake unto the women which resorted thither." (Act 16:13).

Clearly there was no Jewish synagogue around, and Paul resorted to pray at a river on the sabbath.

Just keep studying and praying ,

@ topic

what's the different?

Religion is really a set of rules that guide you towards becoming spiritual. Religion is the journey so to speak, but being spiritual is the final destination. I hope that made sense.

There are some problems that are associated with religion and these are:

1) its source

2) how one interprets the rules of the religion

As it pertains to (1) everyone makes a claim to being apart of the only true religion or faith

As it pertains to (2) personal ways of looking at how these rules should be carried out also poses a problem.

In this life there are always two great forces to contend with, which are: truth and error.

Our job is to make sure that whatever we are apart of belongs to truth and not error. Truth leads to freedom, but deceit leads to pain and sorrow.

@ lordimpaq

the arguments so far seen on this thread end up confusing me the more

I understand your position and would encourage you not to become confused about whether to honour the Lord's creation-based sabbath. There can be no confusion as to which sabbath you had in mind when the thread started. Where the problem lies is how people view the sabbath in general. They tend to group all laws under Moses, including the seventh-day sabbath, and since the bible says that the Mosaic laws were a shadow of things to come, you begin to see whty it becomes so natural a thinking.

My arguments up to now were designed to show that until one makes a distinction between God's eternal law of 10 commandments, and the temporary Mosaic laws, then the truth will be obscured.

What puzzles me though is the teaching that naturally follows, that if the original sabbath had been abolished by the disciples, or apostles later on, then how is it that something as important as that was not even mentioned by Christ to His disciples? When you look at the following texts below and the appropriate explanation, you will definitely see that the seventh-day sabbath was very much alive, and that all the first-day texts brought forward as proof to suggest a switch, have been mis-understood as such.

The two most imortant texts used by the supporters of Sunday gathering are as follows:

Acts 20:7-12

Before I begin let me lay down a principle about how the Jews and early jewish christians viewed the day in terms of when it started and finished. Its important for my explanation.

The bible teaches that each day begins at sundown . (Genesis 1:15, 8, 13, 19, 23, 31); Leviticus 23:32) The dark part of the day naturally began the day. The sabbath for them began Friday night sundown and would end on what we call Saturday night. In fact using their reckoning, our Saturday night would have really been their Sunday evening or the dark part of Sunday. The meeting recorded in ACts 20 was held on the dark part of Sunday, seeing that the dark part of a day begins the day, and what we call today Saturday night.

Proof of that lies in this version of the New English bible whose opening line says:

Acts 20:7-12 NEB
"On the Saturday night in our assembly , "

Every indication points to a late night meeting by Paul which lasted till 12 midnight. Paul was on a farewell tour and knew he would not see these peopel again before his death (see verse 25). No wonder he preached so long and normally no weekly service would have lasted so long in those days, anyway. Paul was ready to depart on the morrow.

So what about the breaking of bread you might ask. Was this any indication that that occassion was a special and normal customary gathering? Absolutely not, because the breaking of bread was never confined to a day for they broke bread every day (see Acts 2:6) With that being the case the breaking of bread has no "Lord's day" significance whatsoever. In fact there is no scriptural indication in this passage that the first day was the norm or customary gathering for early christians. Nor is there the remotest clue of a change from sabbath to the first day of the week.

1 Cor. 16:1,2
1 Now concerning the collection for the saints, as I have given order to the churches of Galatia, even so do ye. 2 Upon the first day of the week let every one of you lay by him in store, as God hath prospered him, that there be no gatherings when I come.

I find it funny how people see what isn't there. Anyway there is no reference here about a customary gathering or church meeting. In fact the expression "lay by him in store" literally means form the Greek store at your house/home

In other words each christian was to save up something for the poor so that Paul woudn't waste time having to do all that when he passed through. They were written a letter from before telling them to store the stuff at home, and not at church as some would have us believe. These christiasn were sabbath keepers and that is why Paul suggested that they do some work on Sunday and make the necessary preparation. Its as simple as that. The raging famine that prevailed would no doubt have affected the poor brethren in Asia Minor. All bills and accounts were normally settled on a Sunday. Both the french and spanish bibles say the same thing about storing the stuff at home. In French it says:

" doit mettre de cote chez lui" which means "place by your side at home"

Thats the solid truth my friend. Sooner or later the inevitable will unfold. If you search the entire New Testament you will not find any suggestion of the early christians either keeping Sunday or instructing to do it. Its just not there, and since they can't find any, what they now attempt to do is to pool the creation seventh-day sabbath under the Mosaic law.

That is why I attempted to show a difference between God's etrnal law of 10 commandments that demands the seventh-day sabbath observance, and the temporary Mosaic laws and other types of ceremonial sabbaths.

I know at times that when one attempts to read Paul's writings about the law it can be a confusing matter. I went through all that. To overcome all that one has to read Paul's writings in their context.

I hope I was able to help on the matter.

Shalom.

Can you imagine a city floating through space? I recently read some material that estimated that this city would be able to hold close to 39 billion people, based on the measurement of it in Rev. 21

"The city lieth foursquare, and the length is as large as the breadth: and he measured the city with the reed, twelve thousand furlongs." Revelation 21:16. The city is perfectly square. Its perimeter is 12,000 furlongs, or 1,500 miles (a furlong is 1/8 mile). It is 375 miles long on each side.

https://www.bibleuniversity.com/images/CourseID2/afsg4-3a.jpg

Notice the city's size compared to several states in the diagram above.

Just kidding myself. I guess its a great feeling when you find family support huh?