MarkMiwerds: Actually, BroCab, tithing was not for the remission of sins. Tithing was for the sustenance of the Levites, the widows, orphans, and Gentiles living in Israel.
One can never convince me that tithing to Levites would cause one's sins to be remitted. One can never convince me that tithing to widows would cause one's sins to be remitted. One can never convince me that tithing to orphans would cause one's sins to be remitted. One can never convince me that tithing to Gentiles would cause one's sins to be remitted.
The only thing that brought about remission of sin was the sacrificial blood of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.
Again, the purpose of the tithe was to feed the Levites, the widows, the orphans and the Gentiles living in Israel.
Image123: Aren't you twisting my words a bit, did i say "increase of all things"? Increase and maybe savings is what is used to buy new clothing, new furniture etc. Once tithe is given of your INCOME which is your INCREASE, that is already settled. 'believe-ability' is relative. Let's stick with what the Bible says, not what you choose as believable. ALSO, God didn't say anywhere that His holy tithe was ONLY agricultural. He never had any qualms with non-agricultural tithes in the Bible, that's the point.
As born again Christians you would think we would follow the same doctrines. Some still believe in the OT laws, and non-tithers such as myself, believe other wise, Jesus said: In Galatians 3:10-11-12 For as many as are under the works of the law are under the curse. Cursed is everyone who does not continue in all things which are written in the book of the law. Yet the law is not of faith. Why would anyone want to follow one old law, and not follow the other. Wasn't Tithing, sacrificing and offerings part of that OT law. So why obey one law and not the other. Matthew 5:20, For I say to you, that unless your righteousness exceeds the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, you will by no-means enter the kingdom of heaven. Matthew 23:23, "Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, Hypocrites, For you pay tithe of mint and anise and cumin, and have neglected the weightier matters of the law: Justice and mercy and faith. {These you ought to have done}, without leaving the others undone. So even the scribes and Pharisees obeyed the one law which was the tithe, but not the other. And since we have tithing in place with most churches today, Then you need to follow all the laws. Do what your fore-fathers did in the OT. Tithing, sacrificing, and offerings.
Image123: This is likely my last reply to you for now. i've satisfied and given you the needed explanations. i'm not here to convince you, encourage you or force you to tithe. If you or anyone has genuine questions about tithes and tithing, i'd answer as much as God permits and as much as i'm available. Meaningless back and forths with stereotyping bigots and extremists remains a great waste of time and resource for me. i've given you the benefit of doubt in replying you as genuine, where you seek to engage in rudderless circles is where i leave you to yourself. No bi by force.
Luk 18:12 I fast twice in the week, I give tithes of all that I possess.
That scripture is a valid history evidence that shows jews tithed of more than just agric produce. If that one would not be enough for you, i know that ten more would not suffice. If a professing christian would not believe the Bible, i do not have any other evidence to waste my time showing him. Abraham also gave tithes of more than agric produce but what does that matter to you. Again, i would yet waste one more scripture on you for posterity. 2Ch 31:6 And concerning the children of Israel and Judah, that dwelt in the cities of Judah, they also brought in the tithe of oxen and sheep, and the tithe of holy things which were consecrated unto the LORD their God, and laid them by heaps. (CEV) The people from the other towns of Judah brought a tenth of their herds and flocks, as well as a tenth of anything they had dedicated to the LORD.
Jews offered tithes of holy things. holy things simply refer to dedicated, sanctified or devoted things. Holy things have a large variation as you may probably learn from Leviticus 27, they are not ONLY agricultural produce. There is NO Bible verse that says non agricultural tithes cannot be given or is unacceptable before the Lord. This ASSERTION remain a figment of the antitiher's imagination. It does not exist in reality.
i will say it again. Our posts are available for perusal. i do not know how many of them including me, that you can point to or show that they proclaim curses on antitithers. You don't know me or know my church as to make any assertive statements on what we do or do not do. Learn to drop your bigotry and extremism when interacting with others.
What you have written here is as meaningless as it gets. lemme look at it to pick some sense out of it yet again so that i can at least reply it. It's either you are diverting issues way off course or you are just not making sense. What is the relevance of these group of sentences? What do i pretend(whatever that means)? 1Jo 2:6 He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked.
You could hardly refute what i said, or discuss intelligently. you cannot resist the wisdom of what i have written to you by God's grace. Repeating your ignorance like a religious person repeats his prayers is a total waste of time and life. NO SCRIPTURE says anyone is ineligible to tithe. When Jesus told the rich young ruler to go and sell his possessions among other things, i'm sure the devil did not deceive you enough to think extremely and foolishly that those possessions were his kids or wives. The same Jesus and the same Bible talks of what the jewish pharisee possesses and all the devil could pump into you was an extremist view devoid of common sense. That is not logic. We do need discernment, and we are not told that tithing is only from agriculture. The scriptures records and accepts tithes of both agricultural and non agricultural produce. You folks are so full of hypocrisy and reminiscent of your mentors. Mat 23:4 For they bind heavy burdens and grievous to be borne, and lay them on men's shoulders; but they themselves will not move them with one of their fingers.
You would not tithe, and you would spend so much time telling others what and how to tithe in the most ridiculous of ways. You have your reward like your fathers.
I'm just asking-You say: you believe there is no being anywhere in any universe that answers prayers? And then you say: on the bottom of your page Thank you for your prayers? Well are you sure about what you believe? Let me say: Some prayers we hear from other people say: the lord had blessed them 100 fold in cash, some more? Some say after they had given or receiving tithes to and fro. Those prayers sounds a bit over the top, {Sample-sometimes when we pray it don't always turn out the way we accept it. Many who pray' usually pray for finances, more then they could possibly handle. Everyone needs Money, but do we always use it the way we plan to use it. Or do we spend it' like their's no tomorrow? Other prayers we hear are for material items such as-homes, cars, bikes, aeroplanes etc., receiving something free is always a bonus. But does it always mean it suits our needs. When one {Works} labours-we seem to appreciate the material items we buy, more then the free gift we had received. Praying was meant to be simple-{Sample-praying for your family, friends, enemies, church, people, thanking the lord we are alive today, the lord already knows our needs, he already supplies us those needs-to the believers and to the non-believers. Everything comes from above.
cyrexx: Thank you, debeloved. but i am sure there is no being anywhere in any universe that answers prayers. people just enjoy the comfort of having "someone up there" who listens to them even though their prayers dont get answers. i have prayed to this god (God in Jesus name) many times thinking i am talking to someone only to realise that i was talking to myself all the while. if such a being exists and answers prayers, you dont have to convince anybody of what you have been telling me since, your prayers should do the job easily. even now i am sure your prayers for will fall on deaf ears of a non-existent religious concept of a being up there. nevertheless, thank you for your prayers, good day.
The lord warns us, Matthew 7:15. Beware of false prophets. He also warns us about hungry preachers 1 Timothy 6. men of corrupt minds destitute of the truth who suppose the godliness is a mean of Gain {Money} the lord tells us the get away from them. But like most of us do we listen? Many of these false wolves in sheep clothing's will always be close to us some-where. The lord say"s: Luke 21-Mark 13, watch, like you are doing, your being a watcher, many Christians don't take any notice' they cant see through their blindness, this shows clearly the lord had open a door up for you, the lord is always looking for his people to spread the news. The lord said: he's coming back, No-one knows accept the Father. The lord say's: old men shall have dreams, young men shall have visions. I'm also one that has many dreams about the end times, In a dream' I believe I had seen the beginning of the rapture, what I seen was; I'm standing in amongst buildings, where I don't know? I looked towards the sky, and what I had seen-a large around hole in the sky-inside that hole was like I was looking into a different de-mention-another sky, but with brighter colours and our earthly clouds were entering into this hole. I had other dreams, The world is at war fighter planes are ready for battle-soldiers jumping out of aeroplanes around mid-night ready to capture the innocent. Many who are watchers, have an awareness to these warnings. stay tuned with the lord, when the lord say's: move, you move. You will "know" when its time...
Debeloved87: So many People have had dreams concerning the coming rapture of the saints to be this year 2012, but how true is it....we heard that the mayan calendar ends this year dec 21 2012 and after that trouble for the world because their demon god is to be release on earth, and so many other demon gods too to be release by that time, and we also heard that the chinese nation called this year 2012 as the "YEAR OF THE DRAGON"...are these not ringing bell...as if not enough one of the most respected rabbi in israel, rabbi kaduri before he died in 2006 had a dream where the messiah said HE is coming in the month of Av 5772 which is 19th july-19th august 2012. And here we have someone said he was told to count some numbers 1335 in his dream in september 2008 and he arrive at july 24 2012,can this be true, all this look like a puzzle, however the current situation of the world is at its worst....so what do u tink about this please contribute.
natureblack: Then my pastor was like "turn your bible to the book of Malachi 1 vs 8.Will a man rob God ?Yet ye have robbed me.But ye say,Wherein have we robbed thee? IN TITHES AND OFFERINGS"
Deep inside me am like "keep robbing my Dadda and Momma,the thunder that would straighten ya is in the gym"
PastorKun: Well I don't see any difference btw sports betting/gambling and the type of tithing thought in most churches today. Most tithers tithe in anticipation of a thousand fold return (just like gamblers) and 99.9% of them never get this result yet they continue to tithe like chronic gamblers.
I'm sure many of us have all seen and been to those kinds of churches. For many of us, It had taken its toll' by seeking the lords kingdom we have found that truth. And wanting to share our good findings to other believers, with those who are still searching are not ready to accept the good news, who can't see past this finance tithing lie, choosing to live in slavery, bondage, carrying their own burdens as far as one can go." While the prosperity preacher-preaches these doctrines from Satan, picking out curtain people from the crown, to put on these shows, so many who believe, pay out more monies so these preachers get paid.
cap28: Another fake Nigerian pastor exposed by a black british journalist. This fake id.iot is made to look like the lying thief that he is courtesy of this brilliant documentary , but brain dead Nigerians continue to give this theif their paltry tithes, enabling him to live a life of luxury while they continue to wallow in abject poverty:
Abraham made his own decision to pay a tithe to the priesthood from the spoils of war, not because God told him too. plus the goods didn't belong to Abraham anyway. So if we are to follow Abraham's footsteps {"as many say"} does that mean we are to pay a tithe through stolen goods? Do you think we all should become like a Robin-hood, robbing the rich and tithe to the poor? "No." And yet Thur shall not steal.
Later God had made a covenant law with his people as part of the tithing system {from the spoils of war} we now have hard working farmers tithe at least 23% on a yearly or three years Percentage of food bringing the {crops} into the storehouse so the Levi priesthood and the hungry shall be fed. Yet this Old testament covenant God had made with his people, tithing to the Levi priesthood being faulty- Jesus later had to change it' to a new covenant. Hebrews 7: 11 Therefore, if perfection were through the Levitical priesthood {for under it the people received the law}. what further need was there that another priest should rise according to the order of Melchizedek, and not called according to the Order of Aaron? For the priesthood being changed, of necessity there is also a change of the law. Hebrews 8:7-10 As he say: For if that first covenant Had been Faultless, then no place would have been sought for a second. Because finding fault with them, he say's:"Behold, the days are coming." say's the Lord, "when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and the house of Judah, not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them out of the land of Egypt. V's 10, "After those days "say's the lord, "I will write My laws in their mind and write them on their hearts; and I will be their God and they will be my people. Hebrews 7: 27-28 Aaron's received offerings,{tithes} and sacrifices first for his own sins and then for the people's. Jesus then said: He sacrificed himself "Once" for all when he offered up himself. For the law appoints as high priests men who have weakness, but the word of the oath, which came after the law. Jesus had made a new covenant' Jesus had changed that old testament covenant priesthood days, finding "fault" as it's written.
You say no-one should use the tithe argument to avoid giving to God. I say, no-one should use the tithe messages at all. Tithe is a percentage, and given can mean less or more.
I find with most forums such as this one, those who tithe seem to create a more argumentative situation against those who don't tithe. Many of those who tithe believe that "all" should be equal to tithe as they do? "bringing their hard earned wagers into the storehouse. Not scripture d in the NT' but someone other then "God" himself, had made these demands.
Revelation 22:18-19. For I testify to everyone who hears the words of the prophesy of this book. If anyone adds to these things, God will add. "and if anyone takes away from the words of this book of this prophesy, God shall take away his part from the book of life.
Such as it was in the old covenant, this had caused, arguments, disputes, envy, strife, reviling, evil suspicions, Jealousy, causing men to have corrupt minds, Selling, buying, in the lords house. There's no difference with today's {churches}-storehouses. 1 Timothy 6. Men of corrupt minds destitute of the truth, who suppose that godliness is the means of Gain. {Money} The Lord then say's-From such withdraw yourselves. Who do you think the lord is talking about? This same tithing system is still playing its roll.
KLand: Titheing preceded the law in that Abraham paid tithe even before the law was given. It is true that Jesus came to fulfil the law, but you know Jesus never outlawed titheing? I know that anyone that loves the Lord with all his heart will not find it hard to give 10% of his income to God. Even if you don't call it tithe, just give to the Lord. That's the bottom line. No one should use the tithe argument to avoid giving to God.
"Yes" I agree. The one world order is ready to persecute those who believe. We strongly need our prayers for our Children believers to bring us through to the promise land, young mighty men and women who are willing to serve our God, and our saviour Jesus Christ.
breathless: Every reasonable, caring, disciplined and loving parent that seeks the success of his/her child/children in this endtimes cannot take the importance of prayers for granted. We should pray more fervently without ceasing than ever before as we have so many forces contending for their attention as well. The children of this generation are exposed to many stuffs that makes them question a lot. The new world order does not seek your permission to live in. It does not ask for your input. It simply makes you live by its rules. Lets pray for our children all the time so that they will know and live in the way of our lord and saviour, Jesus Christ. I hope those of us who viewed this thread and those who will still do, can refer to any of the prayer point as a guide anytime. God bless our "seeds" in Jesus name.
adeshola1: Matthew 22:21....Give to Cesar what belongs to Cesar & give to God want belongs to God..... Hmm....why are some of u robbing God because of greed and wrong interpretation of Scriptures.
The Bible isn't a book we have to interprete with our head as some of us as doing here but we need guidance of the Holy Spirit..
Remember... 1day..All of us will give account.of our lives & don't say someone didn't warn you about this..
If that's the case you feel you need to pay tithes' because you believe your prayers and paying tithes may save your souls through your pastor, then I "ask" when will Jesus come into the picture.
thegoodone2: actualy I dont support tithing but the way things is going in Nigeria we christain need to pay tith. I pray our leader (pastors) should not disappoint us when we need them. If war start in Nigeria to day and is bw us and 2faith who will finance that war? 2faith has b saving toward that. Abuja 1989 if i may right.
I would like to say: pastors don't force you "Physically, Mentally" they do. By twisting scriptures around to suit their own tithing budgets. When the spirit of the lord speaks, he mainly speaks though the bible' though our dreams and visions, sometimes we hear his voice. And because you say non-tithers are only listening to their own understanding-and not the spirit. Then I say: do you"test"the spirits? 1 John 4, Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits, whether they are of God; because many false prophets have gone out into the world. So everyone who believes Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is of God. Jesus says many false prophets have gone out into the world, and by the scripture written in 1 Timothy 6:5 Men of corrupt minds and destitute of the truth, who suppose that godliness is the means of Gain {Money} From such with draw yourselves..Who do you think the lord's talking about? So the question "is" are you being deceived?
comrChris: just bear it in mind that you will account for any soul you are able to deceive concerning tithe with this your post
Actually you need the spirit of God if truelly you are a christian
Remember no pastor has ever forced his/her members to pay tithe,it is a things of the spirit,so therefor if you see it as afraud from your pastor to you then stop giving but stop deceiving peoples here but remember the bible instructed us not lean on our own understanding,your arguement here has been on your own understanding instead of the spirit
Joseph Smith, the founder of the Mormons. 200 years ago. also teaches it's good to have more then one wife. while he was on a crime spree and shot dead by police. "Great."
Saved2Serve: The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, known as the Mormons, believes and teaches that God the Father used to be a man on another planet, that he became a God by following the laws and ordinances of that God on that planet and came to this world with his wife (she became a goddess), and that they produce a spirit offspring in heaven. These spirit offspring, which includes Jesus, the devil, and you and me, are all brothers and sisters born in the preexistence. These preexistence spirits come down and inhabit babies at the time of birth, and their memories of the preexistence are lost at the time. Furthermore, faithful Mormons, who pay a full 10% tithe of their income to the Mormon church through Mormon temples, have the potential of becoming gods of their own planets and are then able to start the procedure over again. Is Mormonism Christian? No.
If you were to go to any Christian bookstore and look in the non-Christian cult section, you will see numerous books on Mormonism that document Mormon beliefs as aberrant and un-Biblical. The Mormon Church is not considered a Christian church.
Jesus warned us about such groups when he said in Matthew 24:24 that in the last days many false christs and false prophets will arise and deceive many. Mormonism is exactly that--a manifestation of a false prophet: Joseph Smith, who taught all these things.
The Bible does not teach that God came from another planet; or that he has a goddess wife, or that we can become gods. In fact, the Bible clearly and definitely contradicts those teachings. But, the Mormon Church responds by saying that the Bible is not really trustworthy, that the true faith was lost, and that its leader, Joseph Smith, restored the so-called "true" Christian faith: god from another world, becoming gods, goddess mother, etc. Of course, the Mormon Church's claim is not true. Mormon Beliefs documented
Please note that these teachings are documented from Mormon writers--not anti-Mormon writers:
Book of Mormon The book of Mormon is more correct than the Bible, (History of the Church, vol. 4, p. 461). Devil, the The Devil was born as a spirit after Jesus "in the morning of pre-existence," (Mormon Doctrine, p. 192). Jesus and Satan are spirit brothers and we were all born as siblings in heaven to them both, (Mormon Doctrine, p. 163). God God used to be a man on another planet (Mormon Doctrine, p. 321; Joseph Smith, Times and Seasons, vol. 5, p. 613-614; Orson Pratt, Journal of Discourses, vol. 2, p. 345; Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses, vol. 7, p. 333). "The Father has a body of flesh and bones as tangible as mans . . . " (D&C 130:22). God, becoming a god After you become a good Mormon, you have the potential of becoming a god (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p. 345-347, 354). "Then shall they be gods, because they have no end; therefore shall they be from everlasting to everlasting, because they continue; then shall they be above all, because all things are subject unto them. Then shall they be gods, because they have all power, and the angels are subject unto them," (DC 132:20). God, many gods There are many gods (Mormon Doctrine, p. 163). "And they (the Gods) said: Let there be light: and there was light," (Book of Abraham 4:3). God, mother goddess There is a mother god (Articles of Faith, by James Talmage, p. 443). God is married to his goddess wife and has spirit children (Mormon Doctrine, p. 516). God, Trinity The trinity is three separate Gods: The Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost. "That these three are separate individuals, physically distinct from each other, is demonstrated by the accepted records of divine dealings with man," (Articles of Faith, by James Talmage, p. 35). Heaven There are three levels of heaven: telestial, terrestrial, and celestial (Mormon Doctrine, p. 348). Holy Ghost, the The Holy Ghost is a male personage (A Marvelous Work and a Wonder, Le Grand Richards, Salt Lake City, 1956, p. 118; Journal of Discources, vol. 5, p. 179). Jesus "Therefore we know that both the Father and the Son are in form and stature perfect men; each of them possesses a tangible body . . . of flesh and bones," (Articles of Faith, by James Talmage, p. 38). "The birth of the Saviour was as natural as are the births of our children; it was the result of natural action. He partook of flesh and blood--was begotten of his Father, as we were of our fathers," (Journal of Discourses, vol. 8, p. 115). "Elohim is literally the Father of the spirit of Jesus Christ and also of the body in which Jesus Christ performed His mission in the flesh . . . " (First Presidency and Council of the Twelve, 1916, God the Father, compiled by Gordon Allred, p. 150). Joseph Smith If it had not been for Joseph Smith and the restoration, there would be no salvation. There is no salvation [the context is the full gospel including exaltation to Godhood] outside the church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (Mormon Doctrine, p. 670). Pre-existence We were first begotten as spirit children in heaven and then born naturally on earth (Journal of Discourse, vol. 4, p. 218). The first spirit to be born in heaven was Jesus (Mormon Doctrine, p. 129). The Devil was born as a spirit after Jesus "in the morning of pre-existence," (Mormon Doctrine, p. 192). Salvation "One of the most fallacious doctrines originated by Satan and propounded by man is that man is saved alone by the grace of God; that belief in Jesus Christ alone is all that is needed for salvation," (Miracle of Forgiveness, by Spencer W. Kimball, p. 206). A plan of salvation was needed for the people of earth so Jesus offered a plan to the Father and Satan offered a plan to the father but Jesus' plan was accepted. In effect the Devil wanted to be the Savior of all Mankind and to "deny men their agency and to dethrone god," (Mormon Doctrine, p. 193; Journal of Discourses, vol. 6, p. . Jesus' sacrifice was not able to cleanse us from all our sins, (murder and repeated adultery are exceptions), (Journal of Discourses, vol. 3, 1856, p. 247). Good works are necessary for salvation (Articles of Faith, p. 92). There is no salvation without accepting Joseph Smith as a prophet of God (Doctrines of Salvation, vol. 1, p. 188). "The first effect [of the atonement] is to secure to all mankind alike, exemption from the penalty of the fall, thus providing a plan of General Salvation. The second effect is to open a way for Individual Salvation whereby mankind may secure remission of personal sins (Articles of Faith, by James Talmage, p. 78-79). "As these sins are the result of individual acts it is just that forgiveness for them should be conditioned on individual compliance with prescribed requirements--'obedience to the laws and ordinances of the Gospel,'" (Articles of Faith, p. 79). "This grace is an enabling power that allows men and women to lay hold on eternal life and exaltation after they have expended their own best efforts," (LDS Bible Dictionary, p. 697). "We know that it is by grace that we are saved, after all we can do," (2 Nephi 25:23). Trinity, the The trinity is three separate Gods: The Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost. "That these three are separate individuals, physically distinct from each other, is demonstrated by the accepted records of divine dealings with man," (Articles of Faith, by James Talmage, p. 35).
Mormon beliefs are not in line with biblical truth because they teach things that are opposed to the word of God. It is clear that Mormonism is not Christian.
Actually" those who write on this forum, are learning from each other. And between us all, we are connecting, we are doing what we love most reaching out. We are spending quality time discussing the more important issues too each other. I suppose those who know Christ {Truth} nothing else matters. Heaven and Hell will past away, but my word will always stay.
dein77: This tithe issue has been over-flogged. When shall we spend quality time to discuss more important matters like giving, love, mercy, etc?
Nobody will ever make it to heaven or hell because they paid or didn't pay their tithes!
openmine: do you understand what the word "fulfil" meant in the scripture matthew 5:17?
i suggest you check up the greek word for "fulfil"...but let me help you...the greek word for the word "fulfil" is teleó: which means to bring to an end , complete .... came to complete the law of moses in order to bring it to a conclusive end.... Romans 10:4 was clear about this...lets find out;
4 Christ ended the law so that everyone who believes in him is made right with God.
furthermore,Galatians 3:21-29 further affirms how christ "fulfilled" the law of moses by putting it to an end once he was revealed; pay close attention to the bolded.. 21 Does this mean that the law works against God’s promises? Of course not. The law was never God’s way of giving new life to people. If it were, then we could be made right with God by following the law. 22 But this is not possible. The Scriptures put the whole world in prison under the control of sin, so that the only way for people to get what God promised would be through faith in Jesus Christ. It is given to those who believe in him.
again focus on the bolded.... 23 Before this faith came, the law held us as prisoners. We had no freedom until God showed us the way of faith that was coming. 24 I mean the law was the guardian in charge of us until Christ came. After he came, we could be made right with God through faith. 25 Now that the way of faith has come, we no longer need the LAW to be our GUARDIAN. (REALLY?? YES INDEED )
26-27 You were all baptized into Christ, and so you were all clothed with Christ. This shows that you are all children of God through faith in Christ Jesus. 28 Now, in Christ, it doesn’t matter if you are a Jew or a Greek, a slave or free, male or female. You are all the same in Christ Jesus. 29 You belong to Christ, so you are Abraham’s descendants. You get all of God’s blessings because of the promise that God made to Abraham. Galatians 3:21-29
you might ask,if the laws of moses has been abolished,are we NOW free to commit adultery or to kill or to commit evil? far from it? Galatians 5:1-6 says 5 We have freedom now, because Christ made us free. So stand strong in that freedom. Don’t go back into slavery(under the law) again. 2 Listen! I, Paul, tell you that if you start following the law by being circumcised, then Christ cannot help you. 3 Again, I warn everyone: If you allow yourselves to be circumcised, then you must follow the whole law. 4 If you try to be made right with God through the law, your life with Christ is finished—you have left God’s grace. 5 I say this because our hope of being right with God comes through faith. And the Spirit helps us feel sure as we wait for that hope. 6 When someone belongs to Christ Jesus, it is not important if they are circumcised or not. The important thing is faith—the kind of faith that works through love.
Galatians 5:13-14 (Pay close attention to 14) 13 My brothers and sisters, God chose you to be free. But don’t use your freedom as an excuse to do what pleases your sinful selves. Instead, serve each other with love. 14 The whole law is made complete(fulfilled or brought to an end) in this ONE COMMAND: “Love your neighbor the same as you love yourself.”
So my question to you should be..who is your neighbor?
I only went back for the sake of not having an argument. And theirs no fault found. It don't really matter who's at fault-There's no-argument in Christ, And maybe Mr self righteous you don't read it' you just flip the page, and judge.
openmine: ....maybe its urs....ok oga i hear you MR NAIRALAND
I had gone back through my pages, and I can't see where I said I supported tithing. So you may have flipped through the page, and sounds.
openmine: i think you are at fault not to have declared your position before now and your previous post showed that your were in support of tithes.... and according to you,didnt finish your post...so how can i know if you have finished post or not.... like i said before,since we are in agreement on the issue of GIVING,i said FAIR ENOUGH...
boxer022: What you are saying is that since Christ came to do away with the laws his father gave to His people. Which means that God and His Son Jesus are in enemity or they do not agree. God said inm the Bible that before he says any word, that word is refined seven times by him. God also that instead of any of his words which He spoke not to be fulfilled, Heaven and Earth should pass away. Talking of Sabbath, the same bible said that Jesus Christ is the Lord of Sabbath. All of the laws which God gave in the Bible, He said that they will be to the end of time. Christ been the Son of God cannot come and or do away with His Father's laws, as Christ and his Father are at peace
It don't matter who's at fault, we have finely come to an agreement. I didn't know I had to declare my position. And if you did read my post clearly I have never supported tithing. Give "Yes", I will go over my pages, and find where it says I supported tithing. Maybe you had reading wrong, but I assure you, it wasn't meant to sound, that I tithe. So for give me , if I had made a mistake. Is Nairaland your home town?
openmine: i think you are at fault not to have declared your position before now and your previous post showed that your were in support of tithes.... and according to you,didnt finish your post...so how can i know if you have finished post or not.... like i said before,since we are in agreement on the issue of GIVING,i said FAIR ENOUGH...
No one is stopping you tithe, that"s your choice, all we are doing on this page is sharing the truth. I love hearing tithers stories, 'none I hear how God blessed them' the same as God blesses the preachers.
daniwealth: My Dear been Abraham seed by faith,we should do,the same as he did, His wealth and greatness were all traceable to Tithing.I dont care,what people say about Tithing,i will always give it...10% from my Income to give in God Work wont make me Poor.No pastor taught me how to Tithe,it was a revalation from the scripture and is Working for me.
quoted... jesus was never wrong because he actually came to 'fulfill' the laws of moses which he did by completing the sacrificial system that became necessary because of sin. In the Old Testament, men lived under the condemnation of the Law. Sacrifices were needed to continually atone for their sins (Leviticus 4:35, 5:10). However, since Jesus gave Himself as the ultimate sacrifice, we are no longer condemned same for other laws...
finally,if i had known your position on tithe before now,we wouldnt have had this argument.... but since you said YOU GIVE BUT DON'T TITHE ,i'll say FAIR ENOUGH[/quote]
-Sounds more like you are full of pride. Not from any denomination, Maybe over religious, that you feel you don't need any input from any other resources, Like you said you are a son of God. So one reading and studying the bible don't make himself a old Jewish solar. You can win as much as you can on Nairaland price? if you felt you want to teach me anything, just ask" but with your pages its more like you are in some kind of your own competition. if you read my last page I had finished, you will find I had pretty much answered and given you answers to you questions. But if you still aren't satisfied, only God can help you.
openmine: Amazing!!! its obvious you didnt bother reading the scriptures i provided for you.... it simply means you are not willing or ready to learn or communicate..
you said i used other sources apart from the bible to find out the meaning of 'fulfilled'... if you really read my post you quoted,you would have seen the hebrew word and link for 'fulfilled' which i provided for you... i hope you are aware the scriptures were initially in hebrew words before it was interpreted in english or other translations...
you asked if am a JW.....am not a JW, i am a son of God...i am a co-heir of God's inheritance...denominations are not my thing...may be they are for you...
And one more thing,you said am in a competition with you...hahahahahahahahaha .....that sound too LOW my brother.....if you look through my posts especially the ones you quoted,there has been absolutely NO instances where i made it look like am competing with you....what for? are we going to win a nairaland price?? or will there be a statue made for the best debater on nairaland??
we are all here to learn,that why i did my best to provide scriptures as evidence that christ ended the law... if you think otherwise,the scripture Romans 14:5-9 provides the answer...
Actually I didn't finish writing my page, you got the page un finished
openmine: Amazing!!! its obvious you didnt bother reading the scriptures i provided for you.... it simply means you are not willing or ready to learn or communicate..
you said i used other sources apart from the bible to find out the meaning of 'fulfilled'... if you really read my post you quoted,you would have seen the hebrew word and link for 'fulfilled' which i provided for you... i hope you are aware the scriptures were initially in hebrew words before it was interpreted in english or other translations...
you asked if am a JW.....am not a JW, i am a son of God...i am a co-heir of God's inheritance...denominations are not my thing...may be they are for you...
And one more thing,you said am in a competition with you...hahahahahahahahaha .....that sound too LOW my brother.....if you look through my posts especially the ones you quoted,there has been absolutely NO instances where i made it look like am competing with you....what for? are we going to win a nairaland price?? or will there be a statue made for the best debater on nairaland??
we are all here to learn,that why i did my best to provide scriptures as evidence that christ ended the law... if you think otherwise,the scripture Romans 14:5-9 provides the answer...
First question I would like to ask you, are you a JW? Second question is yours: Like myself" those who study-seek the word of God, and will always find other resources to study, new and old findings of bible meanings. Same as you-What is your argument? Are you trying to be my teacher? This sounds like a war, are you trying to prove to yourself, you are the better person for the job. And if we are to focus on the bible and not the dictionary, then why are you using Greek words. "Teleo" meaning from dictionary, Definitional to bring to a close, passed, finished, to perform, execute, complete, Fulfil. Now "Vocab" Definitional productive and receptive, degree, depth of knowledge, reading, listening, speaking, writing, again from a dictionary. "Kataluo" The NAS NT Greek lexicon, Definitional destroy, demolish, other translated words found in a dictionary from bible study tools? So that shows your information is also from other sources, not your own. You say "one' cant use the dictionary, but you have used the dictionary, and other sources from other links? Sounds "hypocritical." Of course, their are different ways of meanings, in words found. but no-one told me" this was suppose to be a competition. When we read different bibles, we find words that don't follow up with others-but all in sound, people buy bibles and bible dictionaries and other, so one can understand. Your last page said: {Christ "ended the law" so that everyone who believes in him is made right with God} "Teleo" to an end- complete, other words, finished no more. The KJV-Romans 10:4 Christ is the end of the law, and Christ fulfilled and ended some old testament laws. Matthew 5:17 Do "Not" think that I come here to destroy the law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to "Fulfil". he fulfilled it. If the law had ended, continued in Matthew 5:19, whoever therefore breaks one of these commandments, and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever does and teaches them,{Commandments} he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven. V's 21, You have heard that it is said to those of "Old" You shall not murder. ever who murders will be in danger of judgement. V's 22 whoever is angry at his brother, calling him "Raca" or "you fool" shall be in danger of Hell fire. V's 25 Agree with your adversary quickly, lest your adversary deliver you up to the judge, the judge then hand you over to the officer and put you in prison. V's 27, You have heard that those of old shall not commit adultery, but Jesus says: whoever looks at a woman to lust after her has committed adultery. In the old testament people were put to death, Jesus came not to destroy but to fulfil the laws, but now with these crimes people won't be put to death, so this shows Jesus never "Teleo" all the laws. we now live under Grace. As to {"Teleo sounds"} then there will be no sin, but since sin is still in place, there's a law. Romans 3: Jesus came to fulfil all the laws. As written. Your argument is with "Jesus." Tell him he's wrong. Galatians 3:2 Have "you" received the spirit from the law, and not by faith? You don"t need to show me anything about the tithing laws. I give' but don't tithe.
openmine: with all due respect,you are the one that obviously did not understand what you wrote and by that failed to understand my own point of view...i will take your recent points one after the other... most of the meanings of vocabs in the bible are not the same as what is found in your advanced dictionary...i mean to say that the writer or author of the bible, using the word 'fulfilled' may have a different meaning from what the dictionary says...take for instance,the tithe definition in advanced dictionary is completely different from what is written in the scriptures....
so the meaning of words in the scripture should be focused on the bible and not dictionary meaning. i wud like you to go tru the hebrew meaning of 'fulfill' by using dis link; http://biblehub.com/hebrew/5487.htm
now you said i am deviating from the tithe discussion,in actual sense am only trying to show you that since tithe was part of the laws of moses, its stands abolished along with other laws that were made then...
unfortunately or unintentionally,you 'ignored' this part in your writeup....
Of special significance in this study is the word rendered “abolish.” It translates the Greek term kataluo, literally meaning “to loosen down.” The word is found seventeen times in the New Testament. It is used, for example, of the destruction of the Jewish temple by the Romans (Matthew 26:61; 27:40; Acts 6:14), and of the dissolving of the human body at death (2 Corinthians 5:1). The term can carry the extended meaning of “to overthrow,” i.e., “to render vain, deprive of success.” In classical Greek, it was used in connection with institutions, LAWS , etc., to convey the idea of “TO INVALIDATE.”
i would suggest that you study more ARTICLES on how christ fulfilled or brought the law to an end like the bible said to get a wholistic view on this suject.... i will suggest and pray your study dese scriptures; ephesians 2:14-15 colossians 2:6-23 1 timothy 1:8-11 galatians 3:2-5 galatians 3:10-13 galatians 3:21-25 galatians 4:4 hebrews 7:11-28 hebrews 8,9 and 10
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