₦airaland Forum

Yes I agree" I do reach out to many people who don't know the truth about Endtimes, I also reach out to our many believers, who are not watching. But still following that same old church preaching, where wolves in sheep clothing preach every Sunday as they do, and the well knowing prosperity preachers as we know, have joined up with the one world religion about to come. Many free Masons are leading our churches, scramming for Christians to believe their blessings come from tithing. On this same forum, their are many who have been reaching out to non-believers and believers about these lies. Quote the Pope preached to the people" and said: Jesus is not the only way into heaven. Many also have believed this lie. We need our Christian followers to support us, and if given a chance preach to the nations that the Endtime prophesy's have began. I have witness to many of our believers in Christ, about these events about to happen, and many had pushed me away because many fear Revelation prophesy. Too many Christians today are in their comfort zone? Many don't read the bible, but only listen to their Pastors as the spiritual heads of the church, not testing the spirit, not asking questions, but allowing the flow of Satan to enter into their lives, they can't recognize what is truth, and what is not truth. Many don't recognize the person sitting beside them in church, because these many don't walk with the lord as they should. Like the Pharisees who tithed, they too didn't believe. Christians are entering HELL everyday. The world is turning, and there's only two roads to take, you either stay on the highway's or walk the Narrow road. it don't matter which road you take, because Jesus will meet you either way. You fear prophesy now? Fear the lord" because its his say" where you will end up for eternity. Don't be fooled by these prosperity preachers. The lord say's in 1 Timothy 6 men of corrupt minds destitute of the truth, who suppose that godliness is the means of gain {MONEY} From such with draw yourselves. If the lord wanted us to be rich, and we are to imitate Jesus, then Jesus would have lived in mansions as well. Jesus said: birds have nest, foxes have holes, but I have no place to rest my head. I wouldn't be telling you all this, if it wasn't for the lord in my life. This is real" and prophesy has began.

oldtimepreacher:
read the scriptures of the bible and see what it has to say about the Endtimes. you are all aware of what is going on around. reach out to people who don't yet know the truth and discuss it with them. God is a God of mercy but one must take advantage off His loving grace He has given to us don't say you haven't been warned.

Could you tell us your stories" with the blessings you had received, over the years of ministry. Could you share with us about your financial blessings. Do all tithers live rich, or is it just those few Thanks I cant wait to hear your story..

Gombs:
[size=20pt]Understand Why and How You Should Tithe[/size]

About fifty years ago, I was pastoring a church in the oil fields of east Texas. One of the deacons of the church had a good job working for Humble Oil Company. And he was always faithful in his support of the church.
One day he said to me, "Brother Hagin, can you explain something to me? I 've been a Christian for thirteen years, and
I 've been faithful in paying my tithes and giving offerings."

I knew that was true. He was a regular tither whose support really blessed the church. "What is it you want to know?" I
asked.

He said, "Well, I don't know why I'm doing it. I've never heard any teaching or preaching about tithing. When I got saved, they told me I was supposed to do it, so I did. But I don't know of anything that's ever come of it in thirteen years. If I've ever gotten any blessing out of it, I don't know it."

I was amazed. Here was a good man who had been tithing strictly from the standpoint of slavish duty, and it hadn't worked for him. So I took a few minutes and told him a little bit of what I'm sharing with you in this chapter.

Then I said to him, "The next time you get your tithe envelope out, say, 'Lord, I'm doing this by faith. I'm giving for the purpose of keeping this local church going, which is benefiting the Body of Christ by helping people. I'm helping spread the Gospel so that people can be saved. Thank You, God, for making it possible for me to be part of Your work. I am giving in faith and expectancy to be blessed according to Your Word.'"

"I'll sure give that a try," he said. And he did.

About thirty days later, he came back to me with a big grin on his face. "I've been doing what you said, Brother Hagin. Every week I've been praying when I get ready to pay my tithes. And boy," he declared, "it's really working. I can definitely tell a difference in my finances!"

Another time, in another east Texas church, a man came to me and said, "Brother Hagin, my wife and I have been paying tithes ever since we got saved, nearly twenty-five years. But we've never heard any teaching from the Bible about it. Many of our friends in the church are farmers. They borrow money to buy seed to plant, and when the cotton is ready, they hire people to pick it. How do they pay tithes?

"I talked to one or two of the deacons," he said. "And they don't know much about it, either. They said they had thought about asking you to preach about it, but they didn't want you to think they were trying to tell you what to preach. So I wanted to see if you thought you would be talking about it anytime soon?"

I said to the man, "Brother Williams, I'm glad you brought this up. God has been dealing with me about this before you ever said anything. So I'm going to do it right away."

In those days, the biggest crowd we had at our church was on Sunday night. The building was usually full, and if the weather was good, sometimes there would be people standing outside. Because I wanted the most people possible to hear what the Bible says about tithing and giving, I took a Sunday night and spent about an hour on the subject, going into great detail.

I had always tried to preach a balanced message to the church. I had preached about salvation, the baptism of the Holy Ghost, and the gifts of the Spirit. I had preached about healing, faith, and living a life of love and service to others. So the people knew I wasn't trying to cram something down their throats when I preached about finances; it was something they needed and wanted to know.

After the service, many of the folks told me how glad they were that I had preached about tithing and giving—that I had helped them understand what the Bible said and the purpose for giving to God. I could tell they had taken it to heart.

[size=20pt]Tithing Brings the Promised Blessings of God[/size]

Well, immediately the income of the church tripled! Without any special emphasis or pull, there was a generous response when we passed the offering plate. Even sinners started paying their tithes. There were two ladies in the church who were married to unsaved men. These two men would come to church with their families on Sunday night.

The very next day after I preached on tithing, one of these men stopped by the parsonage. "Brother Hagin," he said. "My wife and I talked about your sermon on the way home last night. We believe that God will bless us if we obey His Word. I just got off my first bales of cotton so I wanted to stop by and pay out tithes."

Well, those unsaved fellows kept on paying their tithes. And it wasn't long until both of them got saved and filled with the Spirit. Their families were blessed too. Later, one of the wives was called to preach, and the family went out on the field to minister. The last account I had of them, they were traveling about and evangelizing.

In my more than sixty-five years of ministry, I've heard thousands of testimonies from people who have practiced God's biblical plan of returning a tenth of their income to Him through the local church. A great many of them, in the beginning, weren't sure how they could get by on the remaining ninety percent of their income when they had been barely making it beforehand. But somehow they did. Oh, it wasn't always easy. It required patience, determination, faith, and some time.

But if they persisted, the promised blessings came. Sometimes they noticed that God had "rebuked the devourer" in their lives—the car or the appliances didn't break down as often or the kids weren't sick as much, resulting in fewer medical bills.
If they worked in construction or as farmers, bad weather didn't keep them off the job. Then many times, extra income would come from totally unexpected sources. Perhaps they would get a raise, some overtime hours, or maybe even a bonus! Others reported that they got an insurance settlement, collected on an old debt, or received an inheritance. ***Some folks will think Hagin is lying or it was God just being fair

The bottom line was that when they paid their tithes, they had more financially and did better. And most people were also blessed spiritually with a closet walk with God, physically with better health, and mentally and emotionally with a greater sense of joy and well-being. The Bible says, "The blessing of the Lord, it maketh rich, and he addeth no sorrow with it" (Prov. 10:22).


*** the blessing aren't necessarily monetary, for me, i get less expenses in ALL things and crazy gifts, including cash . Oya, food don done, where are shedemidemi and Goshen and others ? Lobeez, vooks are somewhat lost. Come give you theories

Matthew 23-23, Jesus was having ago at the Pharisees, the story is not just about tithing, but about not following the lords commandments. You need to read more then just' one verse at a time, but read above and below, every chapter has a story. Jesus had seen, and witnessed, what these so called priesthood tithers were doing, they weren't obeying the commandments. But receiving' not only the tithes, the old testament tithes were to feed the priesthood who couldn't own land, the lord said: bring your tithes into the storehouse, That their maybe food in my house. Not only the priesthood received the food, but it was for the poor, the needy, for strangers, the widows, and fatherless. The tithing is not like that now is it? Today tithing's are totally different, they take the tithes from all walks of life, such as the needy, poor, widows, strangers, and the fatherless. So who collects the tithes now? The Pharisees allowed business men to sell merchandise in the temple, so the Pharisees also will make a profit from them. it was Jesus who turned over the tables, and said: this is the lords house, a house of prayer. The Pharisees were visiting widows, who were loaded down with sins, making long prayers so everyone can hear, not caring for the needy, wouldn't eat with the poor, pray against even the tax collector, saying I thank you God I'm not one of these. Would sit in the best places. And shut up the kingdom of heaven against men: for they don't go in themselves. For they would lay heavy burdens' hard to bear, laying them on men's shoulders. And it reads on, Yes they say that Christians and Judaism stood side by side, only because we both believe in the some God, but the different's between the Judaism' they didn't believe in Jesus as the Messiah, they believed the Messiah would come as a human king, as the son of David who were to build a kingdom here on earth. freeing them from the Romans rule. The Pharisees murdered Jesus as they did with their fathers who murdered the prophets. After you read this, you can see its pretty much like the churches today.. You can do this study below and believe, these half-truth messages about tithing, all maybe you can seek the lords kingdom, reading the word, asking the lord in prayer, for the truth to be reviled to you. Don't be fooled by these false prophets. We are already blessed, you don't need to buy your blessings with "MONEY" And for those who are teaching? REPENT. You can save yourselves and your house hold. The truth will set you free.

Gombs:
alright folks, i have been busier today, would upload tonight ... and a little change, our next topic is Chapter 4: THE PURPOSE OF PROSPERITY

it has wonderful topic such as;

God's People Must Prosper To Fulfill the Great Commission

Tithing—God's Plan for Financing The Church and Its Outreaches

Understand Why and How You Should Tithe

Tithing Brings the Promised Blessings of God

To Tithe or Not To Tithe

More Money Results in More Ministry

etc

from the above bold, let me put a little excerpt:

From time to time over the years, people have asked me if the practice of tithing is still valid for the Church today. "The New Testament really says very little about it," they say. "Should pastors and other ministers preach and encourage tithing with so little New Testament information on the subject. Should Christians be bound by the Old Testament Law?"
It is true that there is very little mention of tithing in the New Testament. Two of the Gospels, Matthew and Luke, report the only recorded incident of Jesus saying anything about it. But in this instance, Jesus clearly affirmed His belief in the practice of tithing:


"Yes, woe upon you, Pharisees, and you other religious leaders—hypocrites'. For you time down to the last mint leaf in your garden, but ignore the important things— justice and mercy and faith. Yes, you should tithe, but you shouldn't leave the more important things undone."
—Matthew 23:23 (TLB)


Jesus upbraided the hypocritical religious leaders of His day who ignored vitally important parts of the Law such a justice, mercy, and faith, while meticulously paying the tithe they owed down to the last leaf in their garden. He was saying that giving money doesn't take the place of living right. God is not as interested in a person's money as He is in his heart. But Jesus did say that a person should tithe.

Although the majority of biblical references to the tithe are clearly part of the Old Covenant, the fact of the matter is that tithing was not introduced under the Law. It was merely regulated under the Law. Tithing originated as an act of faith, and faith transcends both the Old and New Covenants! And "by faith" is how we should tithe today—not as an act of legalism, but as an act of faith.

Genesis chapter 14 tells us how Abram paid tithes to Melchizedek, king of Salem and a priest of the Most High God, four hundred years before the time of Moses and the Law. Obviously, he did not pay tithes by legalistic requirement because he lived before the Law. Isaac and Jacob also lived before the Law and paid tithes (Gen. 18:19,20;28:22).

By faith, Abraham paid tithes to Melchizedek, the priest of the Most High God, who was a type of Christ. We see this in the Book of Hebrews, which also tells us that, "... Jesus has become the guarantee of a better covenant" (Heb. 7:22 NIV).
Galatians chapter 3 makes some crucially important statements.

But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith. And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them. Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree: That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.
—Galatians 3:11-14

So should we pay tithes today? Absolutely! But we pay them like Abraham paid them—not by the Law, but by faith. And besides that, if the people of God paid ten percent before the Law and ten percent under the Law, should we, who live by grace, be doing any less when we have a better covenant? *** Wow, Good question***

Abraham paid tithes to Melchizedek, the priest of the Most High God, who was a type of Christ. And he received the blessing, which was threefold—spiritual, physical, and material or financial. Because we are redeemed from the curse of the Law by the sacrifice of Christ, we have received the blessing of Abraham—spiritually, physically, and financially.

We, then, by faith follow the example of Abraham in paying tithes. We pay our tithes unto Christ! The Bible says in Ephesians that when God raised Jesus from the dead, He gave Him to be the Head over all things to the Church, which is His Body (Eph. 1:22,23). So when we pay tithes to Christ, the Head, they flow to His Body, the Church. Do you see it? Through the Church, we have the great privilege of giving to Jesus to do His will and work.

I believe if every Christian would be faithful in tithing and giving, there would be more than enough funds for the Church to carry out its mission in the world. Researchers have found that amazingly few born-again Americans tithe regularly, and a surprisingly large number give nothing! Imagine what could be accomplished if all Christians were faithful in their tithing and giving!


on second thought.. should i still put up chapter 4? Hagin explained Understand Why and How You Should Tithe ...it was a masterpiece.

Matthew 23-23, Jesus was having ago at the Pharisees, the story is not just about tithing, but about not following the lords commandments. You need to read more then just' one verse at a time, but read above and below, every chapter has a story. Jesus had seen, and witnessed, what these so called priesthood tithers were doing, they weren't obeying the commandments. But receiving' not only the tithes, but allowing business men to sell merchandise in the temple, it was Jesus who turned over the tables, and said: this is the lords house, a house of prayer. The Pharisees were visiting widows,who were loaded down with sins, not caring for the needy, wouldn't eat with the poor, pray against the tax collector, saying I thank you God I'm not one of these. "LISTEN" you need to come out of her my people' say's the lord. Its time you start watching, you have discernment when summer is near, but you have no discernment, when all these things are happening around you. Preaches-Pastors twisting the word of God, only to receive Monies." Listen people, the churches you maybe involved in" had signed up with the one world religion. Many of our beloved churches are preaching more on the monies, living it up, then preaching on salvation. Many who follow these churches, will find your Pastors are free masons. Free masons are into science, money and power. Hill song. as well as Kenneth Copeland. and many of our prosperity preachers, are now in our churches preaching that Muslims and Christians worship the same God. These Pastors-Preachers have change the music industry in our churches today. Many Pastors show hand signs of Satan. This is happening before your eye's. Don;t allow the blind to lead the blind. they are taking the tithing messages from the old testament, twisting it around so you become poorer, they want you to think Prosperity is the way to pay for your salvation, this is one of the biggest scrams there is on the planet. Wolves in sheep clothing are out of the wood-works, many of these non-believers are now running churches" that many of you are involved in. The lord's coming back. "Soon" Don't let these false prophets, take you to HELL...

Gombs:
alright folks, i have been busier today, would upload tonight ... and a little change, our next topic is Chapter 4: THE PURPOSE OF PROSPERITY

it has wonderful topic such as;

God's People Must Prosper To Fulfill the Great Commission

Tithing—God's Plan for Financing The Church and Its Outreaches

Understand Why and How You Should Tithe

Tithing Brings the Promised Blessings of God

To Tithe or Not To Tithe

More Money Results in More Ministry

etc

from the above bold, let me put a little excerpt:

From time to time over the years, people have asked me if the practice of tithing is still valid for the Church today. "The New Testament really says very little about it," they say. "Should pastors and other ministers preach and encourage tithing with so little New Testament information on the subject. Should Christians be bound by the Old Testament Law?"
It is true that there is very little mention of tithing in the New Testament. Two of the Gospels, Matthew and Luke, report the only recorded incident of Jesus saying anything about it. But in this instance, Jesus clearly affirmed His belief in the practice of tithing:


"Yes, woe upon you, Pharisees, and you other religious leaders—hypocrites'. For you time down to the last mint leaf in your garden, but ignore the important things— justice and mercy and faith. Yes, you should tithe, but you shouldn't leave the more important things undone."
—Matthew 23:23 (TLB)


Jesus upbraided the hypocritical religious leaders of His day who ignored vitally important parts of the Law such a justice, mercy, and faith, while meticulously paying the tithe they owed down to the last leaf in their garden. He was saying that giving money doesn't take the place of living right. God is not as interested in a person's money as He is in his heart. But Jesus did say that a person should tithe.

Although the majority of biblical references to the tithe are clearly part of the Old Covenant, the fact of the matter is that tithing was not introduced under the Law. It was merely regulated under the Law. Tithing originated as an act of faith, and faith transcends both the Old and New Covenants! And "by faith" is how we should tithe today—not as an act of legalism, but as an act of faith.

Genesis chapter 14 tells us how Abram paid tithes to Melchizedek, king of Salem and a priest of the Most High God, four hundred years before the time of Moses and the Law. Obviously, he did not pay tithes by legalistic requirement because he lived before the Law. Isaac and Jacob also lived before the Law and paid tithes (Gen. 18:19,20;28:22).

By faith, Abraham paid tithes to Melchizedek, the priest of the Most High God, who was a type of Christ. We see this in the Book of Hebrews, which also tells us that, "... Jesus has become the guarantee of a better covenant" (Heb. 7:22 NIV).
Galatians chapter 3 makes some crucially important statements.

But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith. And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them. Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree: That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.
—Galatians 3:11-14

So should we pay tithes today? Absolutely! But we pay them like Abraham paid them—not by the Law, but by faith. And besides that, if the people of God paid ten percent before the Law and ten percent under the Law, should we, who live by grace, be doing any less when we have a better covenant? *** Wow, Good question***

Abraham paid tithes to Melchizedek, the priest of the Most High God, who was a type of Christ. And he received the blessing, which was threefold—spiritual, physical, and material or financial. Because we are redeemed from the curse of the Law by the sacrifice of Christ, we have received the blessing of Abraham—spiritually, physically, and financially.

We, then, by faith follow the example of Abraham in paying tithes. We pay our tithes unto Christ! The Bible says in Ephesians that when God raised Jesus from the dead, He gave Him to be the Head over all things to the Church, which is His Body (Eph. 1:22,23). So when we pay tithes to Christ, the Head, they flow to His Body, the Church. Do you see it? Through the Church, we have the great privilege of giving to Jesus to do His will and work.

I believe if every Christian would be faithful in tithing and giving, there would be more than enough funds for the Church to carry out its mission in the world. Researchers have found that amazingly few born-again Americans tithe regularly, and a surprisingly large number give nothing! Imagine what could be accomplished if all Christians were faithful in their tithing and giving!


on second thought.. should i still put up chapter 4? Hagin explained Understand Why and How You Should Tithe ...it was a masterpiece.

Yeh that will be interesting?

MarkMiwerds:
any tithe that is given contrary to the tithe that God decreed in His Word is a pagan tithe.

God said His tithes were to go to Levites, widows, orphans & strangers in Israel. He said that it was to be observed as He had declared.

So, Image & company are only fooling themselves if they think their form of tithing is pleasing God.

Preachers should prosper in word. Seek the kingdom and his righteous. and all things shall be added to you. And it don't matter what column I write into, because even the prosperity preachers preach on the tithe. "Money" So what do you think, should Preachers prosper? quote author=Gombs post=27369957]

please move your tithe lectures somewhere else like the thread for tithes and offerings. Ummmm...please, next time, employ paragraphs.

Next up is Chapter 5: Should preachers prosper? [/quote]

Yes." Jesus said: Birds have nest, foxes have holes, but I have no place to rest my head. If Jesus was rich as some believe he was, Then with common sense. since the world began, never had the rich associated with the poor. So Jesus was poor. But rich in wisdom & knowledge..Jesus was the greatest possibility thinker their ever was on this planet, but he had chosen to be poor.

Gombs:
Ok...I'm putting up chapter 3 - Was Jesus poor?

My quote wasn't set out to be idiotic as you say. It was meant so you can see how the truth, today has been twisted. We have got to remember the old testament tithing was set up for the priesthood who couldn't own land, also to help feed the "poor" and the "needy. It was the Pharisees who had chosen to change Gods Mosaic law, they tithe, but they didn't follow any other commandments. Matthew 23, V's 13 Woe to you, Scribes and Pharisees, Hypocrites. For you shut up the kingdom of heaven against men:for you never go in yourselves. V's 14,Woe to you, Scribes and Pharisees, For you devour widows' houses, V's 15 for you travel land and sea to win one proselyte, and when he is won, you make him twice as much a son of hell as yourselves. V's 16-Woe to you, blind guides, who say, "whoever swears by the temple, it is nothing; but whoever swears by the gold of the temple, he is obliged to perform it". V's 23 Woe to you Scribes and Pharisees, pretenders {hypocrites}for you give a tithe of your mint and anise and cumin,and have neglected the weightier matters of the law; Justice, and mercy and faith. These you ought to have done, with out leaving the others undone. These are the same Scribes, Pharisees and lawyers who paid tithes but didn't follow any of God's commandments" But abuse it. Jesus had to change the old covenant. And when we see in today's churches, again our priesthood, will tithe, but neglected the weightier matters of the law; Justice,and mercy and faith. Jesus had good reason to change that old covenant, he had seen the damaging side to it. The lord said: you cant worship Mammon and God at the same time, you will either hate one or love the other. That is why the old covenant was changed...

Gombs:
I must say your post is idiotic. No offense intended please.

Don’t derail, this is not a tithe discussion thread. If Jesus had access to flights during his time, or if he were around today, he'd have trekked with a donkey from Nazareth to Jerusalem, then down to Judea, Samaria etc. Go get a world map and check the distances. He'd have used a donkey or ship, shey?

See you all in 3hrs time. Chapter 7 in the pipeline

In the old testament, Tithing was put in place, because the priesthood and the poor will be fed. These day's tithing is put in place to feed the priesthood but not the poor. But demanding tithes from all sorts of life, such as the needy, the poor, the strangers, the fatherless. Tithing was never money. But bring your tithes into the storehouse Malachi 3 That there maybe food in my house. So if I brought into your house a tin of soup would you accept it? All would you prefer' I sell that tin of soup, so you can receive the monies? You may say, I cant travel with just a tin of soup, but with the cash I can do the lords work. We seem to always look at a MUCH LARGER picture, usually though lack of understanding:The lord said: I have been knocking but no-one is answering I have sent my servant to you, but no-one has opened. I'm calling your name but your not listening. I have sent the hungry to you, but they walked away empty handed. All would you prefer to sell the soup, so you can collect, and retrieve that prosperous life. Matthew 7:21-23 Not everyone who says to me, lord, lord," shall enter the kingdom of heaven. But he who does the will of my father in heaven. Many will say to me in that day "lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in your name, cast out demons in your name, and done many wonders in your name? and then he will declare to them I never knew you. [quote author=chysam post=27343458][/quote]

The tithe was set up in the old testament. Bring your food into the storehouse so the priesthood and the the poor can be fed. These day's the tithing messages had changed, now they are taking the tithe from all walks of life such as the needy and the poor. Tithing was never monies, 1 Timothy 6-5 tells us clearly priest-pastors men of corrupt minds who suppose that godliness is the means of gain. From such withdraw yourselves. When did we hear of Jesus catching a plane, or should I say buying one.

Gombs:
my friend, try quoting things in full context. Now note what Papa Hagin thoght:

We shouldn't be so concerned about getting sinners' money transferred into our hands. Our concern should be getting their hearts transferred into the Kingdom. We should be focused on their receiving what we have (eternal life), not on our receiving what they have (material goods).

notice i highlighted it in the book as posted on this thread. I was not concerned or waiting to receive their wealth, or praying it to come to me.

you quoted me half way, ignoring your question and the latter part of my post.

you wrote:



there my friend is why i told you from scriptures "they are not efficacious than anything Godly, for they will always store up for the righteous "

this is no way meaning i am praying for Dangote or Gates or etc wealth to come to me. I was not taught so. Interestingly, you for some reasons skipped the latter part of my post;



I stand by these words, and my post is in no way in support of End-time transfer of wealth. Meanwhile in that post you quoted form the book, why on earth did you not see this?




any comments?

Firstly I don't recall sharing with you anything I had mentioned, Christ asking the Pharisees to tithe. The Pharisees, first appeared in the second century B.C. They appear to have originated from a group called the "Hasidim" { God's loyal ones} By about 135 B.C. they were known as Pharisees {the separated ones} The Pharisees were the keepers of the mosaic law, {the Torah} they believed that having guardianship of this law was proof they were God's chosen people. To whom the Messiah would come, they believed the Messiah would be an earthly King. A son of David whom God would raise up, and establish an earthly kingdom, freeing them from the Roman rule. They also believed in order to remain in favour with God, by keeping the Torah. Second" Christian & Judaism do they stand side by side? Jesus Christ belongs, and is intelligible, only in his Jewish & biblical context, while at the same time an adequate assessment of who he is ,sheds a radical new light on that context, causes to be viewed differently, but does not destroy or negate it. it was the interest of the evangelist not to destroy or negate Judaism, but to remain dialogue with it. Thus although the Jews have a deadly hostility towards Jesus. The first fruits offering started with Abel, then later Abram gave "all" a tithe from the spoils of war. But it still don't answer your questions, why you believe tithing is for today? Birds they neither sow, and they neither reap, nor put into barns, but yet the lords feeds them. How much more are you. A few questions I have for you to answer, did the disciples pay customs or taxes, tithes to Jesus? And why did Jesus say in Matthew 17-24 when the a question was asked to peter, does not your teacher not pay the temple tax? he said yes, after walking into the house, Jesus asked him saying what do you think Simon? From whom do the Kings of the Earth take customs or taxes, from their own sons or from strangers. Peter answered from strangers. Jesus then said the sons are free. Tithing back then was use to feed the priest-hood, as well as the poor, the needy. the strangers, the widows. The law on tithing was to bring foods into the store house. If The tithing was set up so their will be food in the storehouse to feed the priest-hood, and the poor? Then why do the churches today, ask for the tithe from all walks of life, such as the needy, the poor, the widows, and the fatherless, the rich and the middle class people? And what storehouse can hold massive large numbers of financial gain. for whom? And why does the lord say in 1 Timothy 6-5 unless wranglings of men of corrupt minds and destitute of the truth, who suppose the godliness is the means of gain. From such withdraw yourselves.

chysam:
Bros your write up is lenghty but I tried to see exactly how tithing in 21century has corrolation with judaism practices. You mentioned christ asking the Pharisees to tithe. Could you please tell us to which religion they belonged. Again bros,while christ was talking to the Pharisees,where were his followers at that same moment?.When he turned back to his followers,did he ask them just like the pharisees to tithe?. Please give us reason for any answer you may have. I think the best way to understand this tithe issue clearly is to find out if christianity and judaism existed side by side.To my mind,they did.Do you believe this sir?.I want to assume you do just like me. Now help us answer this question too." Since Judaism and Chrisianity existed simultaenously.where was tithing taking place and where was it not taking place and why?". If you have a counter opinion about the existence of these two groups at the same time,please let us know. However if you agree,then bros we will now look into the reasons why on one side some people were tithing and receiving it,while just nearby a different group disobeyed. It is only from this point of view that people can reason with each other clearly.

Tithing May be for you, because "you" and many don't see reason? The bible shows us clearly on truth. And Jesus has been reaching out showing this in scripture. And why? Before myself their has been many quoting bible truths, on this forum. Because its those few who have found the truth, trying to share the word to our brothers and sisters in Christ, quoting scriptures verse after verse-given you all the guide lines so you can "find" what Jesus found in word for us, in truth. You can believe the lie? But when the time comes meeting up with the lord, I pray you have a good testimony why you believe by choosing to support these many Churches who are involved in quoting and believing and teaching another doctrine {tithing}. Think about it' pastors-preachers, talk more on tithing and offerings, more then the actual call out for the salvation prayer. Less preaching, music, and tithing, is the man's translation. Not the lords. Before I came to the lord, I too was a Robin Hood, brought up in the broncs,{The streets I "lived" was my Kingdom} Ripping off the rich, the needy and the poor. Just to feel satisfied, patting myself on my back, "saying" well done good and faithful servant. And today I see" in our many churches, no different with the life of crime I had lived. I walked in those torments, and carried the heavy burdens" I believed, and walked in the lies. As many of our believers do today? And many refuse to believe the truth, Listen you have nothing to loose. Give yourselves entirely to the lord. He promised in word he will never leave you nor forsake you. He is the way to all truth & the life.

asuustrike1:
Whether the tithe is only for Old Testament
or if it is also included in the New
Testament is probably the most debated
issue. The scripture most frequently
referenced regarding the tithe is indeed in
the Old Testament ( Malachi 3:10-12 ), but
the tithe is also referenced in the New
Testament. In Matthew 23:23 , Jesus talks to
the Pharisees, condemning them for tithing
to the penny but neglecting the more
important issues of justice, mercy and faith .
He then goes on to tell them that they
should in fact tithe, but that they shouldn't
neglect the more important things. Jesus
recognized the importance of keeping the
tithe and we should, too.
There are many practices in the Old
Testament that don't make sense to us
today, yet many of these ancient ways carry
over to the New Testament law of grace as
part of Christ's promise to not abolish the
law, but to fulfill it ( Matthew 5:17 ). For
instance we no longer sacrifice animals but
as believers we are called to offer ourselves
up as a living sacrifice (Rom 12:1 ). Men no
longer are required to be circumcised, but
we all have a circumcision of the heart
through the Holy Spirit (Rom 2:29 ). Most of
us don't have grain and produce to bring to
the storehouse, but we do have incomes
that we can bring the first tenth of into the
church. In other words, just because
something is written in the Old Testament
doesn't mean it lacks application to us
today in some way or another.
When I think of Christians asking themselves
whether "tithing" is commanded in the Bible,
is an Old Testament or New Testament
teaching, I wonder how many of these
Christians "send back" the many scriptural
blessings God has given His people in the
Old Testament. How many people when they
are blessed and given hope through the
mention of God's works, words etc. through
the Old Testament Scriptures say ‘I don't
receive this or that blessing or confirmation
because it's in the Old Testament'?"
While it is true that we are no longer under
the old law, that we are under grace, we
must not forget the purpose of grace: to
help us live for God and do the things He
wants us to do. Romans 8:4 tells us that
Jesus came that the righteous requirement
of the law might be fully met in us, not so
that we could altogether dismiss it.
And Romans 3:21-31 talks about how we
have righteousness through faith and not
through following the law, but verse 31 adds
"Do we, then, nullify the law by this faith?
Not at all! Rather, we uphold the law." God's
grace gives us the power and ability to
tithe!

Remember the day's when we first came to Christ, the time when we had no idea what to do with our callings. We would listen what others would say" our question was' what is a evangelist or what is our callings, and what do they do?. Later after learning a few words from our bibles, we would get all hooked up, "how and where" and when do I start. We dream of a over rated picture in our mines-seeing crowns in large stadiums, all coming to the lord. We pray" asking the lord to support our missionaries to happen over night. Giving us the finances so we could spend it on our travel's around the Globe, working for the lord. Being young Christians, not yet knowing the lord' or even the bible, we become over excited, believing the lord will fill us up with so much knowledge & wisdom" that no-one could stop us if they had tried. Like super hero's, with out the instruction book to learn how to fly. My calling is an evangelist. As I have become more in knowledge, reading my bible over the years, I found" to be an evangelist is not that big picture I seen in my mind years before. After I started seeking the word more deeply finding the bible open up to me much more, that picture of old started to vanish away. I would listen to my pastor and watch how he receives his blessing's of tithes and offerings. He would talk as to say if one don't tithe, they will never receive any blessings from the lord. I believed and I started to tithe? My heart wasn't their, but I wanted so much to do the work for the lord. And I couldn't understand why the lord called me into his kingdom, and not tell me about the tithing messages., I argue'd with many believers, over this topic, but some how some-one got the better of me. But I didn't stop their, I studied more, and later again, I prayed to the lord and asked him for truth. I said I'm sick of the lies, and I'm sick of these false doctrines, I wanted the truth. WOW" now I know? and I haven't looked back since. Yes I fell into that same dream many of us have, believing we are doing it right. I didn't know the churches were scamming, monies in tithing and offerings, I really believed, our tithes were feeding the poor and widows. Until I seen it myself, I needed a thing and I knew the church had, I would ring to see if I could retrieve it. I was poor and just barely living on little monies I had. The church turned me down, and they wanted money up front, I couldn't afford it, the pastor was having a sale, and he told me, I had to come up with cash'. Well that was a bit of bad luck and I missed out, but the lord sent in a non-believer, I then' was blessed with my needs. So this big picture I had, I was believing and praying for the wrong motives. I soon learnt my great big dream saving hundreds of lost souls in stadiums was gone, wanting the lord to give me finances so I could be like those other preachers' preaching around our globe, eating in the best places, driving in the best cars, flying around to and fro country too country. Was all a lie. The point is don't look at the bigger picture, but live with the lord every-day, and he will give you the right souls to help save.. And below with my page don't take it to heart, I was just adding, to your quote..

ichidodo:
[color=#1980BC] I've given my life to Christ....As an evangelist i would like to minister to you in a bid start collecting tithes to fund my nairabet account... [/color]

We are no longer under Moses laws, But Christ we follow. It is written in Matthew 17-24, Those collecting the temple taxes, came up to Peter and said, does not your teacher pay the temple tax, Peter said yes, after walking into the house, Jesus said to Peter, tell me, What do you think Simon? From whom do the Kings of the earth, take customs or taxes, from their own sons or from strangers? Peter said from strangers," Jesus said to him, "Then the sons are free..That is so clear, to understand, we are no longer under the tithing law. Jesus then said, we don't want to offend them, go to the sea, cast in a hook, and take the fish that comes up first. And when you have opened its mouth, you will find a piece of money, take that and give it to them. Jesus had no monies of his own, but sent Peter to collect, the coin. As you can read Jesus didn't want to offend the tax collectors. The old testament law was under custom, that is a tithe, paid as the temple tax.

Minlax:
I love it when people can defend their opinions with the scriptures but I also hate it when people make a bold statement to swallow up the gullible. If you are a professional you would understand that every law/principle if applied would always yield results, you can only prove the law of gravity wrong by not breaking yourself when you lift from the ground. TITHING is a principle which is not my business if you chose not to obey but its dividends are ever manifest. Even before Malachi's account, that of Abraham was there, now Christ is the head of the body and anyone who belongs to that body is under the head. Use a Tape and measure your body, your head is one tenth of your whole body. Christ came to fulfill the law, Matt. 5:17

"Jesus" is a name we believe, but not just a name, but a man, who we know as the son of God. who died for us shedding his blood so we can have life eternity, Jesus say's he will never leave you, he will never for sake you, in our troubles he warns us and promised us he won't abandon you, Jesus loves you, and he protects you. And while reading your bible he speaks to you in word, and sometimes out of word, you hear a soft gentle "voice" teaching you his truth & showing you his ways. So as we walk through the shadows of death, we fear no evil? But if you really believe, above, if you really believe Jesus, if you really believe he had died for you. Then you need to really believe Jesus is the bread of life, the light of the world, the gate, the good shepherd, the resurrection & the life, the way & the truth & the life, the true vine, I tell you the truth," Jesus answered, "before Abraham was born, I AM.
Then ask Jesus to show you truth, their are to different doctrines, you either believe in truth, or you believe in the lie. Listen brothers & sisters. The lord say's seek his kingdom and his righteous-and all these things shall be added to you. Ask and it will be given, seek you will find. You either follow the old laws on Tithing giving a small percentage? Or you follow the truth on giving all? Jesus is worth much more then a tithe.Give him all you have....The truth will set you free.

So you believe tithing is in place for today. you need to read your bible? Could you show me in the New testament where Jesus said: we are to tithe to receive our blessings today? or maybe I can show you in the New testament where Jesus said: we are free from temple taxes {tithes}.

nannymcphee:
[size=14pt]Firstfruits[/size]

Many years ago, there was a teaching on firstfruits, which went back to the Old Covenant under the Levitical Law. It focused on the fact that the firstfruits were brought to the priests personally, and that these Old Covenant priests represented a type of present-day fivefold ministers because they were anointed. A serious problem develops when we begin referring to fivefold ministers as priests.

Making a New Testament application of Old Testament technicalities violates every principle of Bible interpretation, especially when there isn't a single New Testament usage of the word "firstfruits" in the context in which it is being preached by some ministers.
The concept of firstfruits is not used in the New Testament in reference to financial giving. There is not even the vaguest hint of it by any New Testament writer in reference to money or the support of ministers.

[size=14pt]
Tithes[/size]

I've heard preachers try to hammer Christians by quoting from Malachi chapter 3 saying that they are cursed if they don't pay tithes and give offerings. Obviously, this is not correct. While the people of Malachi's day were under the Law of Moses, the New Testament plainly declares that Christ has redeemed us from the curse of the Law (Gal. 3:13).

Does that mean that tithing is no longer valid? Not at all. As I said in the last chapter, God's people were tithers four hundred years before the Law, and Jesus reaffirmed the validity of tithing in His teaching. In the only recorded instance of Jesus' referring to tithing, He said it should be done!

But there is no curse today for not tithing. We are free from the legalistic requirements of the Mosaic Law. Is there any other consequence? Yes, if we don't tithe, we limit ourselves from receiving the blessings God has promised those who pay tithes and give offerings by faith.

everyone needs to know the truth. And its good to hear it from others, to share it around our globe.

Image123:
Am i expected to respond to this, or why exactly did you mentionquote me?

everyone needs to know the truth.

Image123:
Am i expected to respond to this, or why exactly did you mentionquote me?

Can anyone Amazon. If one said: to the church we don't have to tithe any more, can anyone picture it? Many would be over excited if we say the requirements to tithe is not for the church, many will say the church will go "broke" in a week if people are told that they don't have to tithe. I would remind them, telling them the churches that God wants to exist would continue to be supported by freewill offerings of the people. God said: Seek my Kingdom and my Righteousness and all these things will be added to you. If a church will preach and teach God's truth and not man's tradition then she will "never" lack for the monies she needs. Churches today exist because they have convinced many to tithe, when in reality the church itself is not teaching the truths of the bible. For many pastors, it is easier to teach people to tithe, than to be holy people of God who would then give from their hearts, because of their deep love they have for their savior... Can you Amazon, pastor's and preachers running around like chickens with their heads cut off. Not knowing what's next? Some will try that old system picking up the bible trying to bring the church in order-twisting verses like the old days so one can have full control again. Those who preach on the tithing messages for the gain of monies. will surely be left behind with their followers who believe. You Tithers who tithe. listen to the spirit of God, don't be fooled the truth will set you free.

PastorKun:
20 Reasons You Should Stop Tithing
Among pastors there is a terrible abuse of using law tithing to place the church back under the condemnation of the law. This must be stopped (Titus 1:11). Jesus taught the church of Paul’s dispensation a better way of giving without the law.
Below are some reasons you should stop law tithing.
DOWNLOAD THIS LIST: PDF
We are not under the law of tithing
Tithing was part of the law. We are no longer under it. (Rom 6:14)
The law of tithing is weak
A required tithe does not change the heart or the action. (Mat 23:23, Gal 4:9, Rom 8:3)
The law tithe is beggarly
Law tithing always requests more. It is not a gift. It is merely fulfilling an obligation (Gal 4:9)
The church is not God’s covenant people
The old and new covenants were made with Israel and Judah and so the requirements were never intended for Gentiles (Heb 8:. Gentiles could be blessed by honoring Israel, and worshipping Israel’s God.
There is no Levitical priesthood today
The most popular tithe today is the tithe that went to the Levitical priesthood (Num 18:21). There is no Levitical priesthood today.
The pastor does not replace the priest
Preachers and teachers in the body of Christ church are not priests. Christ is the only mediator (1 Tim 2:5).
We do not inherit Israel’s land
The tithe given to the Levites was because they had no land inheritance (Numbers 18:21).
There are no more temple sacrifices
Since Christ paid it all there is no need to pay (tithe) someone else to do this service.
The local church does not replace the temple
Know ye not that you are the temple of God not your building! ( 1 Cor 3:16)
The church does not observe required feast day celebrations
It was three times a year in Deut 16:16. At certain feast days is where the tithes would be offered. One tithe even allowed you to stay home and spend it on what you desired (Deut 14:26).
Law tithing requirements were greater than 10 percent
Deut 14:28 is one example of the tithe on the increase every 3 years that was above the regular Levitical tithe. There are other required offerings also according to Mal 3:9.
Physical blessings are no longer granted
The law tithe taught physical blessings to Israel from God for tithing (Mal 3:10). Without a covenant with God, a priesthood, a promise, or a temple tithing for profit will not work.
Christ has given the church all spiritual blessings
Those blessings are in heavenly places in Christ (Eph 1:3)
God provides all our needs without tithing
Phil 4:19 says your needs are supplied according to his riches in glory in Christ. What you need is not physical it is spiritual.
Law tithing obligates the doer to the entire law – Gal 5:3, James 2:10
Peace with God is attained without tithing - Romans 5:1
We work to provide for our needs in this dispensation
Paul makes it clear that if we don’t work we don’t eat (2 Thess 3:10). Mat 6:11 and Mal 3:10 are not effective today. If we do not provide for our own today we are “worse than an infidel (1 Tim 5:
The tithe was required
Giving today is not “of necessity” (2 Cor 9:7). This is an important distinction between generosity and obligation.
The law tithe places you under a curse
If you do not continue tithing then you can be cursed (Gal 3:10)
Christ has redeemed you from the law of tithing
Law tithing represents ignorance or negligence of Christ’s cross (Gal 3:13, 1 Cor 1:17, Gal 2:21).
“I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain. ” – Gal 2:21

Editor’s note:
This resource is not intended to dissuade giving generously to the Lord’s causes. God loves generosity as a reflection of your thanksgiving to Him. While this resource explains why Paul’s doctrine teaches you to stop law tithing, God does not teach lesser generosity.
“Every man according as he purposeth in his heart, so let him give; not grudgingly, or of necessity: for God loveth a cheerful giver.” – 2 Cor 9:7

Source: http://graceambassadors.com/prophecy/law/reasons-to-stop-tithing

The truth is any pastor from any church who preach on tithes, is not preaching or teaching the bible. Jesus said in Matthew 17-24, Those who receive the temple tax came up to peter and said: Does your teacher{jesus} not pay the temple tax? Peter said: yes, And when he had come into the house Jesus asked him saying: What do you think Simon? From whom do the kings of the earth take customs or taxes, Jesus said: from their own SON'S or from strangers? Peter said: to Jesus, From strangers," JESUS SAID:" THEN THE SON'S ARE FREE. If we are god's son's then we are free from tithing.

Image123:
This is my position updated, hehehe.

Everyone seems to blame God, it was God that made a beautiful garden, he then made man' Adam, then a woman eve, both not satisfied, but walked away from God's creation. Because man met the Devil, the Devil made an offer to man, he couldn't refuse. The Devil said: to the man I will give you all the kingdoms and it's glory of the earth' if you will bow down and worship me. Well of course you know the answer to that. Some years ago, I met a old soldier, he said: to me if God was so good, why then does he allow children who play in mine-fields, loosing there life's. My answer to his question was, it was man that buried those land-mines, and its man that are to lazy to dig them out, for the children to play. So you can blame God? When you know the truth "yourself". Man had made his choice and it was man that murdered innocent people. And it's man that blame God because man can't accept his own responsibility's. Plus have you yourself prayed to God.

Ymodulus:
God Permitted Murderous Despots to Kill Millions

[img]http://thechurchoftruth.files./2012/08/why-do-you-love-1-genocide.jpg[/img]

God Allowed six million of the Children of Israel, his “chosen” people, to be slaughtered by Hitler

https://www.shamash.org/holocaust/photos/images/Belsen01.jpg



God Permits Young Virgin Girls To Become Sex Slaves

[img]http://thechurchoftruth.files./2011/12/nepalese-young-girl-sex-slave.jpg[/img]

[size=18pt]God Intentionally Causes Children To Be Born With Birth Defects;[/size]

Exodus 4:11 And the LORD said unto him, Who hath made man’s mouth? or who maketh the dumb, or deaf, or the seeing, or the blind? have not I the LORD?


[img]http://thechurchoftruth.files./2011/12/child-with-severe-clef-palatte.png[/img]
allows millions of children (and adults) to starve to death;

[img]http://thechurchoftruth.files./2011/12/boy-dying-of-starvation-in-somalia.jpg[/img]
intentionally visits cruel, debilitating chronic diseases like cholera, measles, typhoid, malaria, Aids, Parkinsons and Huntingtons upon unlucky individuals

[img]http://thechurchoftruth.files./2011/12/child-covered-with-flies.jpg[/img]
periodically causes the earth to shift causing bloodshed, death and years of suffering
[img]http://thechurchoftruth.files./2011/12/abject-poverty.jpg[/img]




Ruthebaby,

You may believe in “God” but why do you even speak to Him after all his indifference to human suffering?
[size=20pt]Would you speak to me if I watched and allowed your daughter to be tortured and raped?[/size]
God fails as a “Good Samaritan” and is guilty of depraved indifference.
What good is He if he doesn’t help us in these cases?

In short, how do you reconcile the claims of faith with the facts of life?




***crying and typing****

Only a wicked person will do this and be happy. At the end the Atheist are the one who help these poor lads while the God followers stay at one corner collecting tithe

It's funny how' everyone seems to play the blame game, and it's always God that receives this blame, I was asked a question some years ago,by an old Soldier, His question was: if God's so good? Then why does God allow all the children walk into a mine-field to be blowing up. My answer to that question was, people blame God, because it was man that put them their in the first place, and it's man who are to lazy to dig those mines out, so the children can walk.

Oduduwaboy:
.....hmm. this is a modified post because the initial comment got hidden! anyway...

Well God's old covenant was broking by Jesus, Jesus made a New covenant.

Dan1cole:
A covenant is a legal agreement between two or more persons with terms and benefits. And tithing is a covenant in the sense that God said bring ye all the tithes into my house and let there be meat in mine house (term) and see if I will not open the windows of heaven and pour you a blessing you wouldn't be able to occupy (benefit).
It is written in the Bible, which make it legal agreement between God and man. And as I said before, in God's standard, a covenant is a covenant, He'll never break it.
Now am not saying its a must to tithe or its a sin not to tithe or you wouldn't make Heaven if you dont tithe. No! But you rob God when you don't do it. Malachi 3:8

From the beginning Abel gave his first fruits offerings to God. After Abram saving his brother Lot, and his goods as well as the women and the people from the war, he went to the valley of Shaveh { that is the King's valley} Then Melchizedek King of Salem brought out bread and wine and blessed Abram on return. Abram gave Melchizedek a tithe of all"once. King Sodom said" to Abram give me the persons and take the goods for yourself, Abram said: I have lifted up my hands to the lord-God Most high- still speaking with King Sodom that I will take nothing that is yours, lest you can say you had made Abram rich. So really Abram had nothing to give..Old testament, Jacob had made his own vow to God. Later God made the tithing system into a law. but as I said this law was not made for every tribe. In the bible where he say's give to Caesar what is caesar's and give to God what is God's. And the other verse In Matthew 17:24 Those who receive the Temple tax, came to Peter And said: does your teacher not pay the temple tax, Peter said "yes". And when he had come into the house, Jesus anticipated him, saying, "What do you think, Simon? From whom do the kings of the earth take customs or taxes, from their own sons or from strangers? Peter said: to him "from strangers." Jesus said to him, then the sons are "free." So with the tithing system to God, we are now son's, so Jesus said, the son's a free from temple tithes-taxes." The tithing system were the temple taxes. Tithing is an old testament command. That was for the Jews and was in reality their taxation" system", The tithe consisted of the temple tax. The land Sabbath tax, and the special profit-sharing tax,{ leaving the corners unharvested for the poor } The required giving for the Jew was approximately 25 % per-year. In addition to all of this there was voluntary giving in the old testament which included first-fruit giving and freewill offerings. The emphasis here was not on a percentage. But on the attitude of the giver and the quality of the gift. The point is that "tithing" is an old testament practice that was equivalent to our modern day tax structure. Tithes were not gifts at all, but were required giving. In the New testament things really have not changed, for the Christian is still required to pay taxes to support the Government. The taxation is the new testament equivalent of tithing. But the tithe is no longer apart of the "religious" system of a theocracy, rather our "tithe" today is simply the taxation system of a democracy. The only references in the New testament to tithing is to Jews and their requirement to support their religious system of Government. The new testament does teach that a Christian should give to God, but only in the sense that it's a freewill giving from the heart. While no specific percentage is given. We are to give: In response to need-Acts 4:35.Act 11:27-29. In a systematic and purposeful manner-2 Cor 9:7. 1 Cor 16;2-3. In a sacrificial way that 'cost' us. Mark 12:41-44. Luke 19:8. In secret and a humble way. Matthew 6: 1-4. In a cheerful manner, now some will get all excited if we say that the requirements to tithe is not for the church. They will say that the church will go "broke" in a week if the people are told they don't have to tithe. I would remind them that the churches that God wants to exist would continue to be supported by freewill offerings of the people. God said: "seek my kingdom and my righteousness and all these things shall be added to you. Just think" if a church will preach and teach God's truth and not man's tradition then she will "never" lack for the monies needed. God's work is done, God's way's will "never" lack God's provision. The churches today only exist because they have convinced many believers to tithe, when in reality the churches itself is not teaching the truth's of the bible. For many pastors, it is easier to teach people to tithe, than to teach them to be holy people of God who would then give from their hearts, because of their deep love of their savior. The truth will set you free-praise the lord.

mko2005:
Tithing was first out of a man's freewill(GRACE)-Genesis 14:20''And blessed be the most high God, which hath delivered thine enemies into thy hand. And he gave him tithes of all.''
Tithing was second as a covenant- Genesis 28:22 Jacob said...''And this memorial pillar I have set up will become a place for worshiping God, and I will present to God a tenth of everything he gives me." and in verse 20 of the same book and chapter,see what Jacob said: Then Jacob made a vow, saying, “If God will be with me and will keep me in this way that I go, and will give me bread to eat and clothing to wear, But before these statements of Jacob to God,see below God's promises to God to show you the covenant they both entered:

Gen 28:13-15-''At the top of the stairway stood the LORD, and he said, “I am the LORD, the God of your grandfather Abraham, and the God of your father, Isaac. The ground you are lying on belongs to you. I am giving it to you and your descendants.Your descendants will be as numerous as the dust of the earth! They will spread out in all directions—to the west and the east, to the north and the south. And all the families of the earth will be blessed through you and your descendants.What’s more, I am with you, and I will protect you wherever you go. One day I will bring you back to this land. I will not leave you until I have finished giving you everything I have promised you.”
Tithing lastly copied as a Law and this is where you hear in the book of Malachi God speaking concerning tithing as a Law Just as it was given to Moses in the book of Exodus practiced through leveticus,deuteronomy and the rest. But the bible says that the Law isn't the real deal but a shadow of that which is to come. And what is that which is to come ? It is that which was before the coming of the Law. Jesus has been in existent before the Law was introduced. Remember Christ telling his apostles that in the begining there was no Law of divorce until it was given by Moses. In the begining people were not commanded to give their tithes as Abraham,Isaac andJ acob id because there was no Law then but they gave their tithes.
THE BIG QUESTION FOR ALL OF US WHICH IF ANYONE CAN ANSWER ME NOW,THEN I WILL QUIT THIS TITHING ENLIGHTENMENT CAMPAIGN: Since there was no Law in the days of Abraham,Isaac and Jacob because the law came only in Exodus with Moses,who then commanded them to tithe? Where did they learn tithing from? Who did they tithe or vowed to tithe to because there were no levites then?

God help us

Yes they did rob God, in the old covenant law. The lord found the tithing system faulty. Malachi 3 clearly shows some people didn't pay the tithes, they didn't bring the food into the storehouse. Tithing was an uncertain system. And tithing was not for everyone to follow, So Jesus had changed that same covenant. I am no tither, but I give" mostly all my time to the lord, Seeking his word' learning more on truth. We need to follow Abram seed, he gave all of the spoils of war, not just a tithe 10%, but all. Mark 13, Jesus said: this poor old widow has given all", while the tithers gave a percentage. And Jesus gave her the glory, she was remembered, blessed, as it is written. If tithing was for today, then Jesus would have mention it clearly, but he said: give. and if we are Abraham's seed then we need to follow his giving, all" ONCE. If I took a can of soup into the storehouse would they accept it? "No", because tithers are only seeking to receive a pay back money guarantee. Jesus preached to us to follow his commandments. Lets get real, tithing don't make you more blessed then I. So who's under the curse?

Dan1cole:
A covenant is a legal agreement between two or more persons with terms and benefits. And tithing is a covenant in the sense that God said bring ye all the tithes into my house and let there be meat in mine house (term) and see if I will not open the windows of heaven and pour you a blessing you wouldn't be able to occupy (benefit).
It is written in the Bible, which make it legal agreement between God and man. And as I said before, in God's standard, a covenant is a covenant, He'll never break it.
Now am not saying its a must to tithe or its a sin not to tithe or you wouldn't make Heaven if you dont tithe. No! But you rob God when you don't do it. Malachi 3:8

Thanks

WinsomeX:
^^^

I agree with you. On the the matter of tithing, conversion, following older believers and being taught by the Spirit, I can testify to this too. Indeed winning the lost, not money making gospel preaching, is our calling.

Bidam, I read your response. I have nothing else to say. I believe what has been said to you is sufficient.

We are to live by faith not tithes. By faith Abel offered to God a more excellent sacrifice than Cain. By faith Enoch was translated so that he did not see death. But without faith it is impossible to please him, for he who comes to God must believe that he is. By faith Noah being divinely warned of things not yet seen, moved with Godly fear. By faith Abraham obeyed when he was called to go out to a place which he would after ward receive an inheritance, not knowing where he was going. By faith Sarah herself also received strength to conceive seed. Verse 13,These all died in faith, not having received the promises.verse 14, For those who say such things declare plainly that they seek an homeland. 15, And truly if they had called to mind that country from which they had come out,they would have had opportunity to return. 16, But now they desire a better, that is a heavenly country. Therefore God, is not ashamed to be called their God, for he has prepared a city for them..All these were faithful men and women to God, all who obeyed the lord's commandments, with Faith. The Pharisees would pay tithes, but didn't have enough faith to follow the lord's commandments. Love your neighbour as yourself. But big note themselves, in the synagogue, sitting in the best seats, praying to God, saying thank you lord I'm not like one of these Tax collectors. and yet the Tax collector prayed with his head down asking for forgiveness, which one came to the lord in faith? The lord had to change the law, and a new covenant the lord seen the damages it was causing, between the people, Malachi 3 reads that clearly, will a man rob God? Yet you have robbed me. But you say, in what way have we robbed you, in tithes and offerings. it shows clearly the tithing law was Faulty, It was the Pharisees who had changed the laws of God. Love not that neighbour. It was the Pharisees who not only killed the prophets' but Jesus. And today the Pharisees in the Roman Catholic Church are changing the laws not only do you have to tithe but pay taxes bring all your cash into the storehouse. So now the commandments have changed for a one world religion.. And its a shame to see even our beloved prosperity preaches have signed up-and made an agreement with these modern day Pharisees for this to happen.

clemzo101:
why are u talking as if we are quarreling? I only said I wanted to learn, dis is an open discussion.
Pls how is tithe a convenant?

The one thing I have asked is discernment. The tithing message shouldn't be preached in churches, it was a law made so the levities can be fed, the lord said: give. Its best to give, then to receive. Tithers are looking for a blessing, prosperity pay-back," we already are blessed. Jesus didn't condemn the tithe, but he didn't preach on it either, but changed that old covenant to a new one, Again in Hebrews 8-8 Because finding {FAULT} with them, he say's: behold the day's are coming," say's the lord," when I will make a new covenant with the house of ISRAEL and the house of JUDAH. Was not Israel the place where the levites were paid tithes? Are we seeds of Abram,{Abraham} and Abram gave all from the spoils of war, goods that didn't belong to him, so this clearly shows we need to follow Abram seed, he gave all, Luke 21, the poor widow gave all what she had, not a tithe which means a tenth which is a percentage. Is that all the lord's worth to you? Jesus would quote every other commandment we must follow, but not tithing, but giving as Abram gave all. And as you say, How can Jesus take tithes the way the levities did? when he is not from that order, Then if Jesus is of the order of Melchizedek, then as Abram gave all, we must give all, not the tithe. Luke 11-42. This is why the lord" changed the law. {Covenant} The pharisees were tithing, but they weren't following the commandments. So Jesus had to change the covenant. And today's tithers,{preachers} are much the same as the pharisees for they love to sit in the best seats in the churches same as the Pharisees in the synagogues, wouldn't eat with sinners, neither tax collectors, or be that good Samaritan, but leaving a beating up man laying in the street to die. Jesus had to change the laws and covenant..

mko2005:
How can Jesus take tithe the way the levites did when he is not from that order(levetical order) ! He is of the order of melchizedek and that same order DOES NOT COMMAND TITHE but receives it when presented freely ! Jesus never in anyway or part of the scripture condemned tithe,rather he approves it but said they shouldn't see it as the all in all ! When Jesus talked about the widow who gave the highest in the synagogue in Luke 21:3 just as he talked about the tithers in luke 11:42''..... You should tithe, yes, but do not neglect the more important things.'' Did you hear him again after that saying we should give offerings in church to support the offering we take to church today ? Ask God for wisdom and discernment then you will receive from the Lord.

God help us

God help you

mko2005:
How can Jesus take tithe the way the levites did when he is not from that order(levetical order) ! He is of the order of melchizedek and that same order DOES NOT COMMAND TITHE but receives it when presented freely ! Jesus never in anyway or part of the scripture condemned tithe,rather he approves it but said they shouldn't see it as the all in all ! When Jesus talked about the widow who gave the highest in the synagogue in Luke 21:3 just as he talked about the tithers in luke 11:42''..... You should tithe, yes, but do not neglect the more important things.'' Did you hear him again after that saying we should give offerings in church to support the offering we take to church today ? Ask God for wisdom and discernment then you will receive from the Lord.

God help us

Asked the lord for truth, clearly the lord say's, give all, seek his kingdom, reading the bible is a good start. ask and it will be given to you, seek and you will find, birds they neither sow,{Money} and they neither reap,{Money}and neither do they put into barns, and yet the lord feeds them, how much more are you? If Jesus wanted us to tithe, after he had changed the old to the new covenant, then Jesus being high priest, would have received tithes while preaching. like the levities did. And if tithing was in place today, in Luke 21-Mark 13 talks about the destruction of the temple where the tithers tithe into; the temple was torn in two from top to bottom. And every time the temple was re-built it was torn down again? No longer the holy-spirit meets Aaron in the temple made with hands. but now because of Jesus the Holy-spirit lives in us, Hebrews 9-8 The Holy-spirit indicating this, the way into the Holiest of all was not yet made manifest while the first tabernacle was still standing. verse 9 It was symbolic for the present time in which both gifts and sacrifices are offered. Hebrews 8,7-9. For if that first covenant had been Faultless, then no place would have been sought for a second. Because finding Fault with them, he say's: Behold the days are coming," say's: the Lord. when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah. " Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they did not continue in my covenant, and I disregarded them" say's:the lord. In Hebrews 7-8 Here mortal men receive tithes. And if Melchizedek wasn't human as some say, then he never really received a tithe of 10%. Because Abram gave all he collected from the spoils of war" and a tithe means a percentage. Genesis 14-23. Abram tithe once from the spoils of war, it didn't belong to him, Abram gave him a tithe of {ALL}. king of Sodom said give me the persons and take the goods for yourself." But Abram." said to the King of Sodom, I have lifted my hand to the Lord God Most High, the possessor of Heaven and Earth, that I will take nothing, from a thread to a sandal strap, and that I will not take anything that is yours, lest you should say 'I have made Abram rich.. So this clearly say's: Abram gave all. not a tithe.10%. And in the new testament Jesus said: give, he don't say tithe, in Mark 13- Luke 21 he seen a poor old lady give all what she had, to the temple while the tithers tithe there percentage, and she was remembered blessed more then the tithers.Abram gave all what he had from the spoils of war..

mko2005:
Still on the matter !

Having established the above facts, I think it is necessary we go back to Genesis 14:18-20
''And Melchizedek, the king of Salem and a priest of God Most High, brought Abram some bread and wine.Melchizedek blessed Abram with this blessing:“Blessed be Abram by God Most High, Creator of heaven and earth. And blessed be God Most High, who has defeated your enemies for you.”Then Abram gave Melchizedek a tenth of all the goods he had recovered.''

Who is Melchizedek? We will know who this 'being' is when we get to the book of Hebrews but keep in mind the meaning of Christophany!
Genesis 28:20-22 is the second time tithing was actually mentioned and this again happened when there was no LAW commanding anyone to tithe! '' Then Jacob made this vow: “If God will indeed be with me and protect me on this journey, and if he will provide me with food and clothing,and if I return safely to my father’s home, then the Lord will certainly be my God.And this memorial pillar I have set up will become a place for worshiping God, and I will present to God a tenth of everything he gives me.”
From the above two scriptures, it has been established that Abraham who is the father of all nations also whom we(Gentiles) MUST receive his blessing through Christ Jesus (Galatians 3:14)-tithed and his son Jacob tithed as well before the law ! The Law came after the exodus from Egypt, Exodus 19:3-8 and Abraham had already tithed to 'Melchizedek' before this time(640yrs before the law)And his son Jacob tithed about some 445yrs before the law and this brings us to the conclusion that tithing never started with the Law and why should it end with the law?

Let us see Hebrews 7 and what revelation there is concerning tithing! But before then,see what the writer says expecially to the spiritually dull !
Hebrews 5:11-14’’There is much more we would like to say about this, but it is difficult to explain, especially since you are spiritually dull and don’t seem to listen. You have been believers so long now that you ought to be teaching others. Instead, you need someone to teach you again the basic things about God’s word. You are like babies who need milk and cannot eat solid food. For someone who lives on milk is still an infant and doesn’t know how to do what is right.Solid food is for those who are mature, who through training have the skill to recognize the difference between right and wrong.’’

Tithing is absolutely and positively supported by the book of Hebrews in the New Testament!
Hebrews 7:1-19
''This Melchizedek was king of the city of Salem and also a priest of God Most High. When Abraham was returning home after winning a great battle against the kings, Melchizedek met him and blessed him.Then Abraham took a tenth of all he had captured in battle and gave it to Melchizedek. The name Melchizedek means “king of justice,” and king of Salem means “king of peace.” There is no record of his father or mother or any of his ancestors—no beginning or end to his life. He remains a priest forever, resembling the Son of God.
Consider then how great this Melchizedek was. Even Abraham, the great patriarch of Israel, recognized this by giving him a tenth of what he had taken in battle. Now the law of Moses required that the priests, who are descendants of Levi, must collect a tithe from the rest of the people of Israel, who are also descendants of Abraham. But Melchizedek, who was not a descendant of Levi, collected a tenth from Abraham. And Melchizedek placed a blessing upon Abraham, the one who had already received the promises of God. And without question, the person who has the power to give a blessing is greater than the one who is blessed.
The priests who collect tithes are men who die, so Melchizedek is greater than they are, because we are told that he lives on. In addition, we might even say that these Levites—the ones who collect the tithe—paid a tithe to Melchizedek when their ancestor Abraham paid a tithe to him. For although Levi wasn’t born yet, the seed from which he came was in Abraham’s body when Melchizedek collected the tithe from him.
So if the priesthood of Levi, on which the law was based, could have achieved the perfection God intended, why did God need to establish a different priesthood, with a priest in the order of Melchizedek instead of the order of Levi and Aaron?
And if the priesthood is changed, the law must also be changed to permit it. For the priest we are talking about belongs to a different tribe, whose members have never served at the altar as priests.What I mean is, our Lord came from the tribe of Judah, and Moses never mentioned priests coming from that tribe.
This change has been made very clear since a different priest, who is like Melchizedek, has appeared. Jesus became a priest, not by meeting the physical requirement of belonging to the tribe of Levi, but by the power of a life that cannot be destroyed. And the psalmist pointed this out when he prophesied, “You are a priest forever in the order of Melchizedek.”
Yes, the old requirement about the priesthood was set aside because it was weak and useless. For the law never made anything perfect. But now we have confidence in a better hope, through which we draw near to God.''

I intentionally gave the whole of Hebrews 7:1-19 for us to see for ourselves what the writer of Hebrew is saying concerning Christ, keeping in mind what Christophany means!
Melchizedek never appeared anywhere in the bible until Genesis 14:18-20 and immediately after that HE went into thin air until the book Hebrew brought us to the proper understanding of who this BEING Melchizedek truly is!
Before we carefully examine who Melchizedek is, let us dissect the meeting between Abraham and Melchizedek first!
In Hebrews 7:1-2, Abraham met with this Melchizedek and without anyone giving him any instructions, he gave a tenth of all the spoils he recovered from war ! Verse 4 made it very clear that even as great as the patriarch Abraham, he recognized that Melchizedek is greater than he is hence the giving of tithe. And without question, verse 7 says,......’’ the person who has the power to give a blessing is greater than the one who is blessed’’, because Melchizedek blessed Abraham after receiving the tithe from him! Verse 5 & 6 made it clear that the law required all the people of Israel who are also of the descendants of Abraham to compulsorily give tithe to the priests of the descendants of Levi,but certainly not to Melchizedek because he is not of the tribe of Levi but of the TRIBE OF JUDAH ! Verse 8 says that the levetical priests who collects tithes according to the Law are men who die and Melchizedek is greater than they all for HE collected tithe and NEVER DIED but lives on !

still Reverting....

I agree that mega churches who own other bussiness, beside the church buildings should be taxed. The lord say's we need to obey the law of the land. Paying taxes is the law, and every labour pays taxes. We need to see this on a much larger scale, and read between the lines. Taxing the churches could and will close many of them down, but those mega churches who recieve tithes will be still standing, because many of the well knowing prosperity preachers had signed up with the pope' pushing for the one world religion. The lord said many are called, but few are choosing-many believers who belong to these false doctrine churches will be left behind. Already it has showing us' we are now in the endtimes' and the lord is standing' on our doors calling his people to come out of her. These mega Churches, are not preaching what the spirit is saying to his church.

thehomer:
No one says it is the case that he has that money stacked up somewhere but they're saying that his assets are worth $150 million.
No government input? Is that how we decide whether or not something is to be taxed? He has begun speaking like the rich man in the parable of Lazarus and the rich man. How quickly he forgets Jesus' wise saying of giving to Caesar's what is Caesar's. Maybe he needs to educate himself on what taxes are and why they're supposed to be paid. People pay him tithes of 10% and he buys jets and builds businesses but doesn't think he needs to pay taxes. That is the classic thought pattern of the wealthy man.

Well said....

optimumprimus:
Furthermore,I think Religion should be banned as it is clearly a fraud . I think the society should be built on philosophy . for example , all religions have just one theme which is love for your fellow human beings and God.so why then are there so many religions and sects with the notion that theirs is the one and only truth?
The rest of the doctrines such as Lent,ash wednesday,Tithe,pray on friday at 6pm,Jihad,behad unbelievers, do not eat meat or drink water on saturday evenings,etc. are meaningless man made doctrines .
God's religion is LOVE ,not Islam,Baptist,Lutheran,Hinduism or Buddhism.
my main philosophy on life that I think all humans should live by and society should be built on .
1. there is a God (we decide just one name to call him ).yes there's ample evidence which suggest that there's a God .
2. you are going to die within the next 100 years. you are spirit being living in your physical body and when you die in body ,you continue in spirit . (there lots of evidence to prove this )
3. the main purpose why you are on this earth is to love your fellow human beings ,to live in harmony with nature. you are here to enjoy and take care of the nature and learn about your existence and the creator in the process.
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8........