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Christianity Etc › Re: The truth your pastor would not tell you about tithes by brocab: 10:32pm On Sep 18, 2018*

As usual you blame me, because I retrieve my information from the net-someone is wrong-and somehow I don't believe it's the stories you produce! Catholic's are more focus upon defending Rome, then they are defending Christ!
I retrieve my information of line, I search the net over and over, to see if the stories are true, sadly for you, everybody seems to have the same pinon about their searches, they spend a lot of time for nothing-wasting time-if you were always right uben.

Ubenedictus:
Yet the abuse was dealt with, what are you guys doing about your own

Uben the above statement is not dealt with-the Catholic Church holds some pretty unsafe matters still to arise out of its hidden darkest ages. Catholic's are knowing as law breakers-they were always hidden under Romes agenda's, Rome has a long journey still-this will take some time before this is completely dealt with-you blame outside of Rome-how can that be, since you believe everything started with Rome from the beginning.
The Catholic Church isn't right-they have a lot to answer for, and it doesn't matter where I go to search the net, credits are everywhere..

Ubenedictus:
as usual your story veers from the truth, sins were never attached to specific sums as you claim and the abuse of overexagerating the monetary aspect was confined to Germany not the entire church.

Yet the abuse was dealt with, what are you guys doing about your own

Christianity Etc › Re: The truth your pastor would not tell you about tithes by brocab: 5:52am On Sep 18, 2018

Is Petro1 you? Having two names on this forum? It seems you know him to well, non tithers, know tithing doesn't make you rich, and yet you aren't sure if this is true or not, "tithing was never used to make anybody rich, tithing was used to help feed the needy.
If God steps on the Seine, then everything God said and done is for the needy-not for greedy men and women who caste of their first fruits.
Becoming rich through the process, defrauding the Church, "Sadly tithing these days isn't used the way God wanted it to be used..
Pastor's that defraud money of the Church-are lazy gluttons "criminals, to lazy to work, expecting a handout-expecting the Church to bless their evil thoughts.
But it seems petro1 is rich to your knowledge-but to my knowledge he is poor, in bible knowledge-if he knew the bible, he would obey the Word of God, he would know tithing and the rest of the other 612 laws was given to the Jews.
{Galatians 3:10} For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.
One law is as good as the other, but sadly the other 612 laws are the forgotten laws-do we stone our Children-and yet, the Church chooses which of the laws, that they should play it's part into their kingdom come, that should be done on their earth, and their rich heaven, "Give us this day our daily wage, and forgive us our sin..

MuttleyLaff:
Maybe his tithing to his pastor is supporting him. I dont know.
I however do believe, he earns a livelihood, asides regularly remits accrued tithes to Christ Embassy Headquarters at Oregun, in Lagos.

Christianity Etc › Re: The truth your pastor would not tell you about tithes by brocab: 12:51am On Sep 16, 2018

Then do you believe his tithing to his pastor is supporting him?

MuttleyLaff:
Looks can be deceiving.

Were you expecting him putting on draping and flowing agbada or babaringa?

Nothing in the pic tells a hardship or poverty story
He looked every inch rich, clean and well groomed to me in the pic.
He had neat hair, chic clothes on, as in the high street branded pair of jeans and jacket, that fitted him well.
The beaming smile on his face showed, a satisfied and contented person, at peace with himself and God.

Petra1 will be LOL reading your comments
He'll probably admit to the "I am a Small structure, with a big God" sanitised version expression.
Some might look small, but dont be deceived by that structure or appearance,
because unbeknownst to you, they're actually are big in terms of financial power and philanthropy

Christianity Etc › Re: The truth your pastor would not tell you about tithes by brocab: 12:22am On Sep 16, 2018*

THE CATHOLIC CHURCH AND INDULGENCES -- 4/08/15
Today's selection -- from God's Bankers by Gerald Posner. One of the scandalous practices of the Catholic church was the sale of "indulgences" to raise money. Indulgences allowed Catholics to buy forgiveness for their sins with cold, hard cash.
Most remember that indulgences were one of the primary reasons Martin Luther made the cataclysmic decision to leave the Catholic church and start the "Protestant" movement.
However, few realize that indulgences were used by the Catholic church as a primary source of revenue for over a thousand years, and that the practice did not end as a result of Luther's protests:
The cost of running the church's kingdom while maintaining the profligate lifestyle of one of Europe's grandest courts pressured the Vatican always to look for ways to bring in more money.
Taxes and fees levied on the Papal States paid most of the empire's basic expenses. The sales of produce from its agriculturally rich northern land as well as rents collected from its properties throughout Europe brought in extra cash.
But over time that was not enough to fuel the lavish lifestyles of the Pope and his top clerics.
The church found the money it needed in the selling of so-called indulgences, a sixth-century invention whereby the faithful paid for a piece of paper that promised that God would forgo any earthly punishment for the buyer's sins.
The early church's penances were often severe, including flogging, imprisonment, or even death. Although some indulgences were free, the best ones -- promising the most redemption for the gravest sins -- were expensive.
The Vatican set prices according to the severity of the sin and they were initially available only to those who made a pilgrimage to Rome.
So they did sell indulgence to the people-with hard earned cash! They may not be selling indulgence any longer, but I am sure they are selling something else to match up the differences..Uben try to understand your Church is on the firing line-your Church had been pushing out the rubbish for so long, it is not the Church itself, it's Catholic's that can't handle the feed backs it really deserves. It's not the Church-its people-that brought the Church on it's knee's, religious people that steals kills and destroys God's chosen..

Ubenedictus:
The problem was solved, you guys should begin solving yours

I did solve it, I left the Church-just like Martin Luther did leaving the Catholic Church, Martin Luther and I know since man had bowed down before Satan-the doors opened for corruption to begin-and the money became gods refusing the truth.

Ubenedictus:
you still don't make sense.

No one pays money for forgiveness of sins, no one pays for indulgence no more. Indulgence has nothing to do with money, its about prayer and good works, some time ago giving alms to the church was considered indulgenced and some bishops in Germany decided to overemphasized the monetary part. The church removed the whole alms issue because of that abuse.

The problem was solved, you guys should begin solving yours

Christianity Etc › Re: The truth your pastor would not tell you about tithes by brocab: 2:47am On Sep 15, 2018

Ok thanks for the input-next time I will read his pages more clearly-interesting, thanks-another one on the hit list, well by his photo's he isn't one that carries a pocket full of money. So if tithing isn't really working for anybody then they need to stop tithing!.
Looking at petra1 photo he doesn't look like a rich man, if tithing is his main goals, then he needs to prove this by his structure 'looking at him he smiles like a poor man-his cheap clothing tells the story!
Have you ever seen a rich man's structure, everything about a rich man, his pride, a rich man is all about money, and what fits in with money "Everything without God..
This is one of the reasons I know tithing doesn't support a poor man's theories.
We see rich men and women always, and we see the middle class men and women always-but sadly tithing had made Petro1 to poor to recognise he even exist.

MuttleyLaff:
Thats the thing, Petra1 is a staunch advocate of tithing
and he is one for that matter, who strongly supports & endorses monetary/monetized tithing up to the hilt
He regularly remits accrued tithes to Christ Embassy Headquarters at Oregun, in Lagos.

Christianity Etc › Re: The truth your pastor would not tell you about tithes by brocab: 11:06pm On Sep 14, 2018

Thank's-so petra1 is a Christ Embassy-I had always believed he was Catholic "right" another megachurch that's found by pastor Chris Oyakhilome then what's all the big fuss about tithing-the tithing system should be common to him..

MuttleyLaff:
petra1: Is Christ Embassy and not Catholic brocab

Ubenedictus who quoted your comment is a self-proclaimed Catholic
and reason why he responded to your post with:
"Catholics don't pay for indulgence no more. you guys show correct your own poo"

I've asked Ubenedictus, for examples, of the sh!t, he knows, that should be corrected

Christianity Etc › Re: The truth your pastor would not tell you about tithes by brocab: 10:46pm On Sep 14, 2018*

Thanks bro, l see things-about man a little different then some, "Man is, by nature, a depraved being who does not seek God in any way.
Until his heart is changed by the Spirit of God, he will not seek God, nor can he. God’s Word is incomprehensible to him.
{I always wondered how does one choose to stay off track, when God had called him/her into His kingdom, does this mean a tithers heart has not been changed in the Spirit to even try to understand the Spirit of God is trying to teach them scripture?}
It is a knowing fact that the unregenerate man is unrighteous, worthless, and deceitful. His heart and mind-his mouth is full of bitterness and cursing, his heart is inclined toward bloodshed, he has no peace, and there is no “fear of God before his eyes” {Romans 3:10-18}.
It is only after he has been made a new creation in Christ that his heart and mind are changed toward God, man now sees truth and understands spiritual things. {1 Corinthians 2:14; 2 Corinthians 5:17}.
{"Not God-but Man decides-a tithing system to gain what is unbiblical" Is it worth the risk-is this man' a man of God-does this mean corruption begins at the door of man.}

OkaiCorne:
It's nauseating how people tell lies and twist the scriptures just for money...

1) They'll say Abraham is their role model on tithing ...but they downplay the part where Abram tithed only once in his lifetime, which was from the spoils of war.

2) Then they try to refer to Matthew 23 v 23 as their shield of defense ... but will never agree that Jesus was referring to tithing done in line with the Mosaic Laws... When you ask if they as Christians are under the Mosaic Law...then they say they're no longer under the Law, but yet still insist tithing ought to be done

up till now... they have not shown any evidence from the Bible or church history where the Apostles and early church leaders asked the Christians to tithe...

1 Like

Christianity Etc › Re: The truth your pastor would not tell you about tithes by brocab: 10:45pm On Sep 14, 2018*

Really it doesn't matter-Uben again you are flying of the handle-indulgence purgatory, is the same as tithing, it's about the Church needing more money every week, and what better way is to lie' that money can save lives? Catholic's believed Indulgence can stop you from burning in hell for eternity, it is good news to hear the Catholic's had stop portraying lies for the Money-but the damage had already began, it will take years before the Catholic's would know any truth-most Catholic's haven't seen a bible, let alone reading one!
I don't believe the Church would back down if someone confessed there sins to a priest, and paid: that extra cash of indulgence and purgatory. The priest would accept it with flying colours-he wouldn't even mention it, he would keep his mouth shut-instead of saying-keep your money the Church was wrong for teaching that lie, he would put your money into the treasury and your sins are forgiven..

Ubenedictus:
I didn't say there are no indulgence, I said Catholics pay for indulgence no more. some bishops were using it to make money. the church reform such practices and made sure nobody was made to pay for indulgence.

as I said it is time you guys handle your own poo.

Christianity Etc › Re: The truth your pastor would not tell you about tithes by brocab: 4:15pm On Sep 14, 2018

The Spirit that is in me, is alive and well! Since you believe you are dead-try asking God, for the same Spirit..

Image123:
Eeyah, sorry about that. Me, I'm already dead. You should try to be.

Christianity Etc › Re: The truth your pastor would not tell you about tithes by brocab: 4:02pm On Sep 14, 2018

I couldn't live with myself, if I had to give God such a small percentage, I couldn't live with myself if I had to convince myself that tithing is biblical.

Image123:
Good. Seeing you agree that everything one gives is a percentage of something, we should all give our percentages in peace and faith, shouldn't we?

I couldn't live with myself, if I lied to God about your message above, It's even more difficult if I had to stand on a pulpit, lying to the Church, how God expects them to pay the Pastor a rich salary every week, while the poor retrieves none.
How do I live with myself if I had told the Church, the more they tithe abundantly to God, the more blessings they receive-God blesses only those who pay tithes. I couldn't live with myself, if I had told the Church God blesses some 30 fold, some 60 fold, and a 100 fold money back guarantee.

Image123:
Good. Seeing you agree that everything one gives is a percentage of something, we should all give our percentages in peace and faith, shouldn't we?

Christianity Etc › Re: The truth your pastor would not tell you about tithes by brocab: 3:40pm On Sep 14, 2018

Maybe you don't believe-but if indulgence doesn't exist, then Wikipedia must be lying to the public. Selling Forgiveness: How Money Sparked the Protestant Reformation-if indulgence doesn't exist then this video of a priest below is lying to the public..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1YxWzxnk1KY
It's the money that had destroyed the kingdom of God, "man would love Mammon more then they Love God..Why do we have so many verses in the bible that was against Mammon, Satan said: bow down before me, and I will give you everything you ask..

Ubenedictus:
Catholics don't pay for indulgence no more. you guys show correct your own shit

Christianity Etc › Re: The truth your pastor would not tell you about tithes by brocab: 8:51am On Sep 14, 2018

petra1: Is Catholic, they don't call their giving a tithe, because there main focus is on purgatory and indulgence, they believe paying into there treasury, saves them abundantly, it's a get out of Hell card, it saves them from burning.
But I suppose tithers, believe tithing blesses them, the more they tithe, God's building their mansions in heaven..

OkaiCorne:
You're not an advocate of the law....but you missed the part of the question where image123 mentioned WEIGHTIER MATTER OF THE LAW & LESS WEIGHTIER MATTER OF THE LAW... and you still see that as an intelligent question? And yet you are not an advocate of the Law?

How is tithing a principle in the kingdom of God?

Was this what Paul and the Apostles taught the early church? I know of freewill giving... But tithing?

If tithing was an eternal principle... can you point out any of the early Christians (both Jewish and Gentile) that gave tithes either in the Bible or church history?

Image123 is yet to give evidence of any of the Apostles or early church leaders preaching about tithing or collecting tithes from the early Christians... Do you have proof that tithing was practiced in the early church?

It is very clear that the Roman Catholic church smuggled in tithing... Sufficient historical evidence abounds to support this...

Christianity Etc › Re: The truth your pastor would not tell you about tithes by brocab: 7:42am On Sep 14, 2018*

It must be hard to "Lie" in wait-when lying about tithes..Did Melchizedek heal the sick, did he save the world, did he die for us-Melchizedek gathered tithes, Christ gathered none-tithers believe Melchizedek is Christ-do we pray to Melchizedek or do we pray to Christ?
I suppose more tithes to Melchizedek are more blessings, if you don't tithe to Melchizedek this week do it double the next week!
Jesus said: give to your brother in need, I just can't find the verse to say give to your RICH PASTORS..
{Deuteronomy 15:7-11}
“If among you, one of your brothers should become poor, in any of your towns within your land that the Lord your God is giving you, you shall not harden your heart or shut your hand against your poor brother, but you shall open your hand to him and lend him sufficient for his need, whatever it may be. Take care lest there be an unworthy thought in your heart and you say, ‘The seventh year, the year of release is near,’ and your eye look grudgingly on your poor brother, and you give him nothing, and he cry to the Lord against you, and you be guilty of sin. You shall give to him freely, and your heart shall not be grudging when you give to him, because for this the Lord your God will bless you in all your work and in all that you undertake. For there will never cease to be poor in the land. Therefore I command you, ‘You shall open wide your hand to your brother, to the needy and to the poor, in your land.’
So if tithing is giving, then give it to the poor, that is what giving is all about isn't it? Giving: to God's people, not actually trying to create a giving tactic to give to a rich Pastor who feeds of your tithes in the proceeds. Claiming he/she stands for God.
We all stand for God-where's my wager-born again Christians come in one accord with different gifts, preaching the same Gospel!
But if your heart is elsewhere and the gospel of prosperity of riches is on your heart then the gospel you preach is not the gospel in the bible..
{Matthew 6:1-4}
“Beware of practicing your righteousness before other people in order to be seen by them, for then you will have no reward from your Father who is in heaven. “Thus, when you give to the needy, sound no trumpet before you, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and in the streets, that they may be praised by others. Truly, I say to you, they have received their reward. But when you give to the needy, do not let your left hand know what your right hand is doing, so that your giving may be in secret. And your Father who sees in secret will reward you.
And yet tithers sound a trumpet, they let the people know they are coming to tithe..

mobiyina537:
your tithes.There's no need to beat around the bush.Hebrews compares
Christ to Melchizedek and says he is greater than the Levites.So today we pay
our tithes to Christ and don't have to send it to Shiloh temple or to some
Isreali rabbi[color=#F5F5F5].[/color]

2 Likes

Christianity Etc › Re: The truth your pastor would not tell you about tithes by brocab: 7:31am On Sep 14, 2018

Abraham gave tithes because it was a custom to tithe-he gave because he didn't need stolen goods, he was to honest enough to return it, and to repay his respects, he gave to their custom..
Which you don't, you give to receive back, your giving is not from the desires of your heart, you have made it into your own law, that Gentile's should tithe..
Which isn't God's law.

Image123:
i did my research. Guess what? i found out that Abraham gave tithes before the law. He gave a tenth before any early church doctrine. He is referred to by Paul as the father of them that believe. There is no sin in emulating his beautiful example. The faith walk is a personal walk based on God and His Word, and not based on academic research so called.

2 Likes

Christianity Etc › Re: The truth your pastor would not tell you about tithes by brocab: 7:25am On Sep 14, 2018

The Word say's it clearly, the tenth of the spoils of stolen goods..So if I was to win a war and retrieved everything that didn't belong to me, isn't right for me to give it back to it's rightful owner.
Abraham done just that, and you call it a gentile tithe..

Image123:
Oga, get a Bible and stop all these poster color nonsense.
Heb_7:2 To whom also Abraham gave a tenth part of all; first being by interpretation King of righteousness, and after that also King of Salem, which is, King of peace;
Heb_7:4 Now consider how great this man was, unto whom even the patriarch Abraham gave the tenth of the spoils.

A tenth is 10%, there is no way you can or should twist it to 100%

1 Like

Christianity Etc › Re: The truth your pastor would not tell you about tithes by brocab: 9:04pm On Sep 10, 2018

Is this the only verse that backs up your madness of lies and wonders? Isn't there another verse you can use, that would line up with what you believe is the Word of God..
{Matthew 23:23}
“Woe to you, [self-righteous] scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you give a tenth (tithe) of your mint and dill and cumin [focusing on minor matters], and have neglected the weightier [more important moral and spiritual] provisions of the Law: justice and mercy and faithfulness; but these are the [primary] things you ought to have done without neglecting the others.
{Does this mean Jesus is calling tithers hypocrites?}

Image123:
Forget your excuses, Jesus Christ said it ought to be done. QED

Christianity Etc › Re: The truth your pastor would not tell you about tithes by brocab: 8:58pm On Sep 10, 2018*

He wouldn't be their God if Jesus didn't support His people, He was also under the Mosaic law, but it wasn't His custom to tithe, nor did He teach His disciples to tithe. Everything about Jesus is giving-He gave His life to save ours, He taught His disciples to give freely, they died for Jesus, "And it is our custom to do like wise!

Peacefullove:
The same Jesus ask Lepers to go appear before the priest according to Custom , He support the Jewish religion ?

Christianity Etc › Re: The truth your pastor would not tell you about tithes by brocab: 8:29pm On Sep 10, 2018*

You shall know the truth and the truth shall set you free! First fruits, tithes and offerings
The bible in the Old Testament speaks of both the first-fruits….and firstborn frequently. It also speaks of tithes in other places.
It is claimed by many preachers that because the bible refers to the first-fruits and firstborn as belonging to God…..that this supports their claim that even today people’s tithes of their income also belong to God….and as such should be given to God by being brought to the local ‘church’ (which is the storehouse where you are fed) where they are to be administered by the ‘pastor’ for the work of the kingdom of God. "As Quote?

This is not the teaching of the New Testament scriptures. One could be justified in concluding that this teaching, with its convoluted support, is no more than the covetous invention of greedy shepherds of whom the scriptures warn us as sheep to be aware in many passages.
It is propagated only because those who know the truth will not speak up and silence the mouths as instructed by Paul in the following scripture..

{Titus 1:10-14}
For there are many insubordinate, both idle talkers and deceivers, especially those of the circumcision, whose mouths must be stopped, who subvert whole households, teaching things which they ought not, for the sake of dishonest gain……….Therefore rebuke them sharply, that they may be sound in the faith, not giving heed to Jewish fables and commandments of men who turn from the truth.

{2 Thessalonians 3:6-9}
But we command you, brethren, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that you withdraw from every brother who walks disorderly and not according to the tradition which he received from us. For you yourselves know how you ought to follow us, for we were not disorderly among you; nor did we eat anyone's bread free of charge, but worked with labor and toil night and day, that we might not be a burden to any of you, not because we do not have authority, but to make ourselves an example of how you should follow us.

There are many reasons why so few preachers and the church leaders are speaking up to refute this heresy. These reasons include 1) self interest 2) loyalty agreements 3) false ‘honor’ doctrines 4) ignorance 5) fear of challenging the ‘anointed man of God’.

Located ‘pastors’ who are no more than elders scripturally refuse to follow the scriptural pattern, which requires that they either work or rely on freewill offerings from the saints they minister to when they travel.
They teach this deception because they believe that it is the only way they can raise sufficient funds to finance their visions and lifestyles. The teaching of this doctrine is a demonstration either of their lack of faith….or their lack of knowledge…or their lack of integrity. For these they will answer to God.

I have decided however, that I will not be one who is responsible for failing to speak out against the deception. {Titus 1:11}

{Ephesians 5:11}
And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather expose them.
This deception needs to be dismantled step by step and exposed to be such for anyone who can read the bible…and has ears to hear the what the Spirit says to the churches.

The Spirit of Truth, which is the anointing that abides in ALL God’s children, {1 John 2:20 &27} will NEVER contradict the Word of Truth.

Christianity Etc › Re: The truth your pastor would not tell you about tithes by brocab: 5:31am On Sep 10, 2018*

God was impressed that Solomon did NOT make wealth a priority in his life.
{Luke 12:33} Sell your possessions and give to the poor. Provide purses for yourselves that will not wear out, a treasure in heaven that will never fail, where no thief comes near and no moth destroys.
Wouldn't be nice-if the Church believed God, the command is give to the poor, not given to rich Pastor's, wouldn't be nice if the Church followed these examples, I suppose it would be something to look forward too in the future, when the world turns upside down, when all the wealth they purchase can't save them, and many will turn from God-saying where is our health, and where is our wealth, the Pastor promised us abundance, he promised us if we tithe 30 fold we receive double, if we tithe 60 fold we receive triple, and most of all 100 fold we receive a money back guarantee in full.
Just as Jesus died, the temple split in two from top to bottom, then the Spirit of the Lord had left the seine, "so if there's no God in the shadows of darkness in the temple, and the temple is no-longer needed-then sacrificing, tithes and offerings are also no longer exist.
Tithers don't believe the temple of God in the body of believers-the Jews didn't believe, after Jesus split the temple in two-the Jews rebuilt their temple, and again it was torn down, again Israel is planning to build the temple the third time, and God said: as soon as they say peace and safety then destruction will come upon the earth...
The temple is not the Church-nor is it the storehouse-practicing old Jewish laws is a curse-neither do we need to sacrifice animals for the forgiveness of our sins, nor do we stone our children-Jesus paid the price-it's finished, the lamb had finalised it..
If I was to tithe to your temple, and you tithed to the next person's temple, and they tithed back to me, what then?

OkaiCorne:
It's disgusting when someone sees a straightforward truth but still wants to twist it.

In Matthew, Mark, Luke and John...had Jesus fulfilled the Mosaic Law when He spoke of tithing?

After His death and ressurection....move on to the other gospels written from Acts to Revelation...

Show us where tithing was mentioned in any of the letters addressed to the gentile churches!

After doing this... Research on the origin of tithing in the church, and you'll see that it is not an early church doctrine... unlike what we see in the church now.

Very simple question I've asked you... you're yet to address it.

Christianity Etc › Re: The truth your pastor would not tell you about tithes by brocab: 4:53am On Sep 10, 2018

Image123:
What has fasting got to do with anything? i quoted those scriptures IN BOLD showing you that people GAVE tithes, contrary to your attempt to separate tithe from giving. Learn to read to understand, not just like a robot that wants to argue. Again, if what i give is not tithe, you should have no problem with it or even comment on this thread again.

i did not realise we had jumped to discussions on justification. Justification is by faith, not by reading Bible, or going to church, or giving to the poor, or water baptism, or tithes. By your logic, should we stop all that i just mentioned?

This should cut as the definition of balderdash, i have no idea of what you are ranting about here.

You should have practiced the latter without leaving the former undone. Do you practice justice and the love of God?

Christianity Etc › Re: The truth your pastor would not tell you about tithes by brocab: 12:04am On Sep 10, 2018*

Most tithers claim giving means give only a small 10% to God. Giving means everything-Abraham gave everything..
Abraham gave and tithed all-100% is never a tithers dream, a tither tithes only 10%-which doesn't follow the story of Abraham.
Abraham didn't need the worldly kings say they made Abraham rich, "Why because Abraham believed God-God had already made Abraham rich-in blessings through belief-God rewarded Abraham with abundance of land, crops and stocks. God gave Abraham everything, the desires of Abraham's heart was to seek God for wisdom and knowledge, Solomon also seeked God for wisdom and knowledge..
How else did Abraham win the war-Abraham didn't need the spoils of war to make him rich-Abraham didn't need man to say they made him rich-God had already made Abraham rich because the riches that was given to him were from a supernatural being spirituality from above, Abraham would seek after God, it was God's wisdom, that made Abraham blessed 100 fold abundantly.

Image123:
This are the kind of baseless and ridiculous research OkaiCorne expects me to follow. For the first time in my life, i am hearing that Abraham's tithe is not 10% but 100%

For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse; for it is written, “Cursed is everyone who does not continue in all things which are written in the book of the law, to do them.” {Galatians 3:10}
"Do yourself a favour, ask the Spirit of the Lord to help you study your bible, Image123 the riches you seek, are not the riches Abraham seek, your riches are carnal, worldly, riches that can only be taught by man, your desires are your Pastor's desires, you want what your Pastor want's.
God sends in men and women of prosperity, preachers that love money more then they love God, God also sends in the army of people who also love money that fills their Churches, Churches full of dead man's bones of health and wreath. "Your desires are with your congregation, which are your Pastors desires, his dreams are your dreams, 10% of $10 every week, from a 1000 people is $10,000.
Abundantly building Mega Churches-fancy homes and wearing costly clothing, driving expensive vehicles, Churches competing against the other-having large amounts of cash sitting in personal bank accounts, it takes the world to recognise it's own kind.
"Seeking after God's riches is completely the opposite, it changes our lives, those who seek after God are blessed abundantly-just like Abraham and Solomon's story both were blessed abundantly, God filled their house with wisdom and knowledge-because both obeyed God.
First seek the kingdom of God and all things shall be added to you.
His riches will overshadow you, your giving will increase, once you decide to give to God-giving everything to God is easy, it sets us free from believing that God needs only your 10% of Mammon every-week.

Image123:
This are the kind of baseless and ridiculous research OkaiCorne expects me to follow. For the first time in my life, i am hearing that Abraham's tithe is not 10% but 100%

Yet another round of fallacies, assumptions mixed with some general Bible knowledge.

Christianity Etc › Re: The truth your pastor would not tell you about tithes by brocab: 3:34am On Sep 06, 2018*

Abraham tithed because of a law made by the kings, it was their custom to tithe into the Kings house, Abraham tithed everything-you only tithe 10% and still you can't get it right? You don't tithe under God's law, In "Deuteronomy" you tithe under man's law, bring all your tithes into the Church of unbiblical teachings, "so my Pastor's will be fed in Riches of Gold and Silver and precious stones.

Image123:
The tithing which people say is of the law is not the tithe being practicd today, that is what most of the people aginst tithe say here..

The Law of the Tithe {Deuteronomy 14:22-26}
“Set aside a tithe—a tenth of all that your fields produce each year.
{If we were to obey the Law, no-one would stave}
Then go to the one place where the Lord your God has chosen to be worshiped; and there in his presence eat the tithes of your grain, wine, and olive oil, and the first-born of your cattle and sheep.
{Some Churches says if you don't tithe into the Church one week, you pay double the tithe the next week, God say" it's alright, sell your tithe and buy anything you wish to do with it}
Do this so that you may learn to honor the Lord your God always.
{How do we learn to honor anybody If the Church keeps on harassing us to give money}
If the place of worship is too far from your home for you to carry there the tithe of the produce that the Lord has blessed you with, then do this: Sell your produce and take the money with you to the one place of worship. "Spend it on whatever you want—beef, lamb, wine, beer—and there, in the presence of the Lord your God, you and your families are to eat and enjoy yourselves.
{What this means is, pay your bills, feed your family, this is your blessing the Lord have given us}
“Do not neglect the Levites who live in your towns; they have no property of their own. At the end of every third year bring the tithe of all your crops and store it in your towns.
{Tithes is equally shared with everybody, tithes are not to build Church buildings, nor is it for just Pastors}
This food is for the Levites, since they own no property, and for the foreigners, orphans, and widows who live in your towns. They are to come and get all they need. Do this, and the Lord your God will bless you in everything you do.
If Churches would respond to giving the tithes to the People, as the Lord had told us to do, giving them the cash would allow everybody to be equally satisfied, we wouldn't find so many pastors wanting the job to lead the Church, instead of air-conditioners, and expecting their easy wage in envelops every Sunday, just like the disciples, we all need to earn a hard day's work sweating in the Sun to feed our own.

Image123:
Tithing is not subject to the law as it was before the law, that is the point. The tithing which people say is of the law is not the tithe being practicd today, that is what most of the people aginst tithe say here. So there is absolutely no problem with the tithe given today as it is not even the definition of "tithe under the law".

3 Likes

Christianity Etc › Re: The truth your pastor would not tell you about tithes by brocab: 1:35am On Aug 29, 2018*

It's even safer if we study the Word of God-and find what is truth! If your brother said: to you, I will jump off this bridge, because the Church told him too, would you follow and obey the order the Church told your brother to jump of the bridge-all would you test against the Church-and study the reasons why it isn't safe to jump of the bridge?
This is why it is not wise to chase after everything we hear especially if the information came out of a Church-it is best to test it, wisdom and knowledge from God gives us a better understanding how to live a better life!

atinuke1985:
well am not exactly clear on this, but I think its safer to pay so if it was required its all well and gd …if it wan’t all well and good

Christianity Etc › Re: The truth your pastor would not tell you about tithes by brocab: 4:53pm On Aug 28, 2018*

Yeh bro, I can see it, the Word of God is freely given to those who seek, not everybody seeks after the Word of God! Satan said to Jesus bow down before me and I will give you all the kingdoms on earth-Jesus said: get behind Me Satan you shall worship God and Him only you shall serve.
Satan said: bow down before me, and he will give you the desires of the heart.
{Ephesians 4:11} He gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers; For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:
Should we say tithing talks while the innocent walks, Will tithing set us free-can tithing bring life, will tithing protect the saints, can tithing edify the body of Christ, can it deliver us from evil, can tithing save us? "What does tithing bring "prosperity of health and wealth, does it not cause disputes and arguments over words, from which come envy, strife, reviling, evil suspicions, tithing causes men of corrupt minds and destitute of the truth, who suppose that godliness is their means to financial gain!
And yet Jesus said: foxes have holes, birds have nest, while He had no place to rest His head: and the apostles laid amongst the thorns.
Image 123 drives fancy car's, the highways is his home, his life style is his riches, his dreams and his visions are focus on worldly luxuries!

OkaiCorne:
@brocab...you can see how image123 is interpreting the scriptures deceitfully...

What did Abram give a tithe of? Or did the whole story end at Genesis 14 v 20?

For goodness sake from verse 21 onwards...it was very clear what was tithed were from the spoils of war...and NOT ALL THAT ABRAM POSSESSED!

Now should a one-time transaction from war spoils become a basis for giving a tenth of one's monthly income to the church purse? What's the connection here?

The only part of the Bible where tithing became regular (annually) was with the introduction of the Mosaic Law to the Jews...if the Mosaic Law is obsolete...then what's the point tithing regularly?

Christianity Etc › Re: The truth your pastor would not tell you about tithes by brocab: 4:43pm On Aug 28, 2018*

I don't believe you-fast twice a week, and then bring your tenth of all you earn to the Church you attend, I know you don't obey God's rules, you deafeningly don't obey the law on tithing, not the way God commanded the Jewish farmers to tithe.
The Pharisees were lairs too!
{Luke 18:10-12} Two men went up to the temple to pray, one a Pharisee and the other a tax collector. The Pharisee stood by himself and prayed: ‘God, I thank you that I am not like other people—robbers, evildoers, adulterers—or even like this tax collector. I fast twice a week and give a tenth of all I get.’ {A tenth is pretty little when giving is more or less}
“But the tax collector stood at a distance. He would not even look up to heaven, but beat his breast and said, ‘God, have mercy on me, a sinner.’ “I tell you that this man, rather than the other, went home justified before God.
It's obvious which one is justified, the one that didn't tithe at all, let alone a tenth?
Giving is free will-Giving is not told every week one must tithe into the Church they are attending, "A tither would say-I tithe 10% every week because the Church demands I give 10% to build it's kingdom on earth. "I give my pastor riches-to support his dreams, "not my dreams" to build his kingdom, not my kingdom of mega homes, fancy cars, aeroplanes, Motor bikes, and monies that burns with the wind..
The differences between tithing and giving is this: from my heart I give-but from a Churches prospective, it isn't from my heart I give, I give on demand-its the Churches custom to say-I must give my tithe of just 10% to God every week, while the rest is mine!
{Luke 11:42} "Woe to you Pharisees, because you give God a tenth of your mint, rue and all other kinds of garden herbs, but you neglect justice and the love of God. You should have practiced the latter without leaving the former undone.
Tithing 10% to God once a week, is like sending somebody away without food in the bellies, and saying to them be blessed and warm for the winter, without giving them the things that is needed-giving more or less then 10% to God is giving the things that is needed everyday, Giving is not focused on just money, tithing is, Free will-Giving is from the heart-if you see your brother in need, "give.
I am not complete until I give something to somebody-I say in my heart-bless is he who comes in the name of the Lord, the kingdom of God had come near to you.
And Abraham gave the tenth from the spoils of war-stolen goods, if we tithe from stolen goods once and for all, like Abraham's story-then we can say in our hearts I have given everything to the kings in the Church-so the kings couldn't say they had made me rich, through tithes.

Image123:
Which one is give and which one is tithe? Tithing is a form of giving, what is your problem with words?
Luk_18:12 I fast twice in the week, I give tithes of all that I possess.
Heb_7:4 Now consider how great this man was, unto whom even the patriarch Abraham gave the tenth of the spoils.

Like i have said several times. If what we are giving is not tithes, why are you having headaches again?

Christianity Etc › Re: The truth your pastor would not tell you about tithes by brocab: 7:53am On Aug 25, 2018

"Gold, Money and The Mark of the Beast 666!
One of the most convincing characteristics that suggests that the Mark of the Beast is a physical object is its requirement to buy and sell.
In contrast, it's very difficult to imagine how a spiritual symbol could be used for such purposes, "There's an important verse in the Old Testament that supports the Mark of the Beast's close connection to money and 666.
{Now the weight of gold that came to Solomon in one year was six hundred threescore and six talents of gold, 1 Kings 10:14}
The law of first mention gives a special significance to the first use of a word or symbol, a significance that is carried throughout the entire Bible [1].
This is the first occurrence of the number 666 in the Bible-"Many scholars have attempted to link 666 to Solomon or the Queen of Sheba but the plain fact is that the direct context of 666 in this verse is gold, six hundred threescore and six talents of gold to be exact.
Another verse directly related to gold is found in the book of Daniel. This verse describes an idol that represents a succession of worldly powers, the first of which is described as a head of gold. The last kingdom, represented by the idol's feet, will rise in the last days to be ultimately destroyed by Jesus Christ Daniel's Statue, head of gold (the stone that was cut without hands.)
{Daniel 2} Thou, O king, sawest, and behold a great image. This great image, whose brightness was excellent, stood before thee; and the form thereof was terrible. This image's head was of fine gold, his breast and his arms of silver, his belly and his thighs of brass, His legs of iron, his feet part of iron and part of clay, "Thou sawest till that a stone was cut out without hands, which smote the image upon his feet that were of iron and clay, and brake them to pieces.
The chapter goes on to explain that the head of gold belongs to the then current king, Nebuchadnezzar {Daniel 2:37-38}
Nebuchadnezzar was later transformed into something of a beast to graze in the field (Daniel 4:15-16)
Not only do we have a link to gold but also to a kingdom and a beast. {For more info on Nebuchadnezzar and idolatry see Lucifer Has Fallen}
There's also another "image" in Daniel that's made of gold and shares similar characteristics with the Mark of the Beast and 666. These characteristics include the numbers six and sixty as well as idolatry and punishment for those that refuse to worship the image {Revelation 13:15}
Nebuchadnezzar the king made an image of gold, whose height was threescore cubits, and the breadth thereof six cubits: he set it up in the plain of Dura, in the province of Babylon. {Daniel 3:1}
Nebuchadnezzar spake and said unto them, Is it true, O Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego, do not ye serve my gods, nor worship the golden image which I have set up? {Daniel 3:14}
But if not, be it known unto thee, O king, that we will not serve thy gods, nor worship the golden image which thou hast set up. {Daniel 3:18}
And he commanded the most mighty men that were in his army to bind Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego, and to cast them into the burning fiery furnace. [color=#990000]{Daniel 3:20}
The New Testament also contains a verse that hints at the Mark of the Beast's close relationship to gold. [/color]
Acts is the only other book that uses the word charagma, the same Greek word translated as mark in Revelation. It's only used once, translated as "graven," and like 1 Kings is used in the same context as gold.
Forasmuch then as we are the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the Godhead is like unto gold, or silver, or stone, graven by art and man's device. {Acts 17:29}
The Church is fallen down this very same road, everything about the Church it's focused on money..
Gold as a Modern Currency-gold bars Gold is looked at as the de-facto standard for money.
It's been used for millenia in trade and is what many currencies have been weighed against to hold their value. When a currency is backed by gold its called a gold standard [2]. The economy of the United States was based on a gold standard from 1944 until 1971.
During the last few decades an interesting phenomenon has taken root in Digital Gold [3]. e-Gold and e-Bullion, among others, had gained ground as popular currencies before being shut down by the US Treasury due to their criminal adoption [4].
The touted benefits of such a currency include security, stability, anonymity, and low fees. Altogether Digital Gold is an attractive form of payment and a logical alternative for paper money, but it will never succeed widely until it can overcome the same problems of cash - accountability and traceability. It needs to be tied to identity. Bitcoin shares the same problems.
Started in 1996, e-Gold was the first provider of Digital Gold, a full four years prior to any of its competitors [5]. e-Dinar was later founded in 2000 and is unique in its support of an Islamic gold standard.
Islamic gold DinarIslamic law strictly forbids the use of paper money like the American dollar to pay zakat [6], "which is similar to the Christian tithe. This has caused some Muslim leaders to encourage the exclusive use of Islamic currency to pay zakat.
An Islamic gold standard calls Muslims to use an Islamic based currency such as the gold Dinar not just for zakat but whenever and wherever possible.
When the US gave up it's gold standard it needed to ensure that the dollar would continue to hold value. "They did this by striking a deal with Saudi Arabia to trade oil (black gold) exclusively for American dollars.
In exchange the US would provide weapons and military backing. Other oil producers soon followed. To this day most countries must first buy dollars in order to purchase oil. This system is collectively known as the petrodollar.
It has been theorized that a switch from the petrodollar to the gold Dinar would cause the US economy to collapse. Whether or not that theory actually holds weight is anyone's guess, but it's been suggested that Gaddafi was killed for pushing that exact agenda [7].
Saddam Hussein had also started accepting the Euro for oil before being captured, tried, and hanged for crimes against humanity. Iran and Russia have recently abandoned the petrodollar and the US is no position to attack either by conventional means.
A Euro w/ 666 on back and a Greek 2 Euro coin w/ a woman on a bull (a beast)The Euro could completely replace the exclusive use of the dollar to purchase oil. If you take a look at any Euro coin there's a distinct 666 on the back, blazened right across Europe. It's also very interesting that the Greek two Euro coin depicts a woman riding a beast (Revelation 17:3).
The Euro will continue to grow stronger and could very well play a supporting role for the Mark of the Beast.
If there was ever a stable world-wide currency, gold is it. If digital currencies continue growing in popularity they could easily become the backing for microchip payment formats like the Verichip. The number 666 and the Mark of the Beast do hold spiritual significance, but held alone such interpretations do not support a requirement to buy and sell. The physical associations with gold, money, and 666 are very clear.
It is quite scary when we know the Churches main menu is focused only on money!

Christianity Etc › Re: The truth your pastor would not tell you about tithes by brocab: 2:01pm On Aug 23, 2018*

It doesn't matter how many times the Lord had told us we can't worship Mammon and God at the same time-I have read page after page on this forum from you-and by your fruit it clearly shows your heart is where your treasure is, 6 threescore and 6 in Gold..Solomon's wisdom how to gain large amounts of finances, quickly! {1 Kings 10:1-13; 2 Chronicles 9:1-12}. .
Your arguments is about how you were taught, not by scripture-you are taught to use scriptures like {Matthew 23:23} this doesn't concern your argument, nor does it concern the way the Church nowadays tithe.
If {Matthew 23:23} had any meaning to the Church today, and you were reading your bible then you would know that tithing is not for the gentiles-nor for the Jew's today!
And if you choose to tithe, and not give as Jesus commanded us-then you would know the scriptures, and you will bring your tithes just as the Pharisees brought their tithes of herbs into the storehouse, God granted the farmers with plenty of rain each year, blessing them abundantly, in return-their duty was to feed the poor!
If the Church had focused their thoughts on looking after the poor-as expected-instead of relying on money to build Church buildings, from the four corners of the earth-everybody would know how to accept God-and accept God's Church!
"There wouldn't be starvation, the poorest countries around the world would live for God, We wouldn't need to rely on government support, nor any other support that stands outside the Church-because we will have each other-we would come together and pray in one accord and know God-just the way God had planned us to know Him!
{Matthew 4:8-10} Again, the devil took Him to a very high mountain and showed Him all the kingdoms of the world and their glory. “All this I will give You, he said, “if You will fall down and worship me.” “Away from me, Satan!” Jesus declared. “For it is written: ‘Worship the Lord your God and serve Him only.’”…

Image123:
The point clearly made was simply that Abraham gave tithes of more than just vegetables and mangoes(agro-produce) that you hitherto assumed that tithes must be." Whether it is recorded once or hundred times is besides the point. Your point was that tithe has to be agro-produce, and i show you someone who gave tithe of non-agroproduce and the Bible calls it TITHE. The Holy Spirit calls it TITHES both in Genesis and in the Hebrews. But you say it cannot be tithe.

Christianity Etc › Re: The truth your pastor would not tell you about tithes by brocab: 6:31am On Aug 19, 2018*

This video is a great example how far the Church had lost it's way!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bNlgEg8TL14
From what was once the Church of God-Man had given the Pastors the authority to stand alone up in the pulpit, expecting the Church to pay and listen!
{Ephesians 4:11-16} And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers; For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ: Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ: that we should no longer be children, tossed to and fro and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the trickery of men, in the cunning craftiness of deceitful plotting, but, speaking the truth in love, may grow up in all things into Him who is the head—Christ—from whom the whole body, joined and knit together by what every joint supplies, according to the effective working by which every part does its share, causes growth of the body for the edifying of itself in love.
Sadly we don't use our gifts to edify the body, we are not allowed to use our gifts to edify each other in Church, unless it is
orchestrated with tradition rules and regulations, order in the court room, traditions had separated themselves from the body of Christ, just around the corner, and around the next corner, and the next.
Rule number one, thru shalt sit while Pastors have full authority over Church building!
Rule number two thru shalt not speak up preaching nor sharing the Word of God to others, while Pastor is in pursuit!
Rule number three, thru shalt pay amounts of money before Pastor speaks in Church!
Do people really expect the Church to be this simple, when we ourselves don't take care of it, I suppose asking somebody other then God, would make life a little easier-who really cares as long as the Pastor tells me I am going to heaven, as long as he reads my bible, he prays for me, he preaches to me, as long as I follow Church traditions every week and pay tithes, as long as my Pastor feeds the hungry, cloths the poor and the needy, as long as my Pastor serves and love the Church I attend, as long as I believe God-I have nothing to worry about-I am going to heaven!

Christianity Etc › Re: The truth your pastor would not tell you about tithes by brocab: 12:45pm On Aug 17, 2018*

I find it strange with most organisations, different denominations, it's never complete-tithers believe tithe's came before the law, because of Abraham tithed once of stolen goods-Jacob made a promise, I wonder 'while they are reading the Word of God, are they really seeking the truth, or do they skip through the pages-expecting their priest, pastors to fill in the gaps between the lines on money.
It's a matter of training ourselves, setting a goal to finish our race, asking God into our lives, asking Him to teach us all truth-concerning the Word of God as protestants do.
It's a matter of believing-its simple to the believer, non believers don't believe, and yet so called believers refuse to believe!
Everything I hear about God, I test it, we won't learn if we don't try to learn, how can anybody understand anything if we don't ask God first!
{Matthew 7:7} Seek and you will find, knock and it will be open, ask and it will be given.
How many times have we asked somebody other then God to fill in the gaps we wanted to hear? How many times have we refused to hear the truth, and how many times have we walked away from God, because we find ourselves lazy to ask Him for anything concerning any truth that actually concerns the Word of God.
All is needed, test the Word, it's a matter of truth 'find your answers through it-forget tradition-don't rely on Church rules and regulations-rely on bible truth's, the Word of God, and nothing but the truth, it's the truth that set's us free.
Many are called but few are chosen-"Ask yourselves is your lives changing for God, does the Word of God flow out of your mouths like milk and honey, is the anointing pouring through you 'like a wine glass filling it to the brim, is God's blessings supplying you abundantly, and are you saved to know the above?.

1 Like

Christianity Etc › Re: The truth your pastor would not tell you about tithes by brocab: 8:08am On Aug 17, 2018*

I quoted the scripture the right way, but you refuse to acknowledge it!
How you interpret the verse has a completely different meaning to {Matthew 23:23}

Image123:
If your church preaches tithing every week, mine does not. So stop using your church to make hasty generalisations. The Word of God does not say that we should not tithe, so i do not refuse it. You are not the Word of God or are you?

{1-This is a strange question to ask-If I am preaching against tithing-then I wouldn't be involved in any unbiblical Church that tithes.
You preach on tithing every week-while your Church don't preach on tithing every week, are you not disciplined enough to follow suit with your Church huh

{2-And then you ask am I the Word of God-do I sound to you I am the Word of God-or does it sound I bring to you the Word of God? {3- And the Word of God does not say we should not tithe, where does it say in Word we the Gentiles should tithe? It doesn't say it at all..
You are not tithing {Matthew 23:23} this verse is to the Pharisees-are you now a Pharisee-do you tithe spices, just like the Pharisees done-which again, just like you, you refused to tithed the way God commanded the farmers to tithe.
Hypocrites! For you pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have neglected the weightier matters of the law: justice and mercy and faith. These you ought to have done, without leaving the others undone!
Jesus was not talking to His disciples-He was talking to the scribes and Pharisees these were the ones sitting in Moses’ seat, not his disciples. They were the ones interpreting the Law, not his disciples. The scribes and Pharisees are the hypocrites, not Jesus’ disciples. They were the ones who had exaggerated the Law to make it a burden. Not the disciples! And they were ones who refused to obey the laws they had exaggerated! {Jesus is not disciplining his disciples!}
“For you pay tithe of mint and anise and cumin” woe is you scribes and Pharisees”! As interpreters of the Law they had exaggerated it to include ordinary garden spices which the Law had never included.
The Pharisees prided themselves with scrupulous obedience to circumcision, Sabbath-keeping and tithing. They wanted the Jews to think that they could observe these three rites even better than what was expected of the Law. Meticulously counting micro-small spice seeds was their way of boasting. Just like the Church today-you boast how well you are blessed, through forced giving, while in the mean time, it rips off the poor..
While quoting this very text to prove that Jesus taught tithing to the Church, there is probably no church on earth which tells its members to literally bring tithes of garden spices. Instead you prefer to demand money from those who find it hard to survive.
“And [you] have omitted the weightier matters of the law -- judgment, mercy, and faith.”
Jesus is telling the scribes and Pharisees that judgment, mercy and faith” are more important “matters of the law” than is tithing.
It is incredible how often Christian tithe-teachers quote this verse and omit “of the law.” Then you tell us that Jesus taught tithing and omit the historical context of the verse, the chapter and the covenant. In fact, ALL of {Matthew 22 and 23} is in the context of “matters of the law.” The Herodians had asked, "Is it lawful to give tribute to Caesar, or not?" {Matt. 22:17}
In the next discussion Jesus rebuked the Sadducees by quoting from the law {Matt. 22:32, Exod. 3:6} next, one of the Pharisees asked, "Master, which is the great commandment in the law?" {Matt. 22:36}
{Matthew 23}" continues the discussion of “matters of the law. “These you ought to have done, without leaving the other undone.” Again I have never heard of a church which required its tithers to bring tithes “of mint and anise and cumin” and demand that they “ought to have done” so in obedience to Jesus’ command in {Matthew 23:23}
If this verse is supposed to be interpreted as Jesus’ command for Christians to tithe money (which the text does not state) then it should also be interpreted as Jesus’ command for the church to tithe garden spices according to the Law (which the text does clearly state).

Image123:
1Jn 2:6 He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked.

In fact, Jesus could not have told Gentile Christians to tithe-when Jesus didn't tithe, so without reason the Gentile Christians are walking just as Jesus walked. Jewish tithers walk on the other side of the road..
“These you ought to have done” because Gentiles were not allowed to bring tithes and tithes would not have been accepted even it they attempted to bring them! In order to be legitimate, tithes must only come from Israelites and only from inside Israel!
Jesus only commanded Jews to observe the Mosaic Law and present themselves to the priests. He did not command non-Jews to do this because their lives were not governed by the Mosaic Law. It was not possible under the Law for non-Jews to be circumcised or tithe.

Image123:
You know the scripture and you already quoted it. Why are you asking for it again? Do you think that the many times it is quoted is what matters or knowing the truth? Well, it is Matthew 23:23 in case you somehow do not still get it.

How is tithing Mosaic and not existing when Jesus clearly said that mercy and faith are weightier parts of that said law? If you say that tithes today is not Mosaic in pattern, what exactly is your problem when people give it? Your confusions are indeed profound.

Can we do same today, or it is only pharisees and hypocrites that should?

If your church preaches tithing every week, mine does not. So stop using your church to make hasty generalisations. The Word of God does not say that we should not tithe, so i do not refuse it. You are not the Word of God or are you?

i wish you would listen attentively to the verse you just quoted. It says to "consent to wholesome words, even the words of our Lord Jesus Christ". i clearly remember Him saying that tithes OUGHT TO BE DONE, and that faith, mercy and judgement should not be left undone. i folow Him, not you. Hear another one, maybe you may change.
1Jn 2:6 He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked.

It does not have to cause disputes for you, just follow Jesus and please Him more by living a victorious life would be a better option. If you have a problem with your church or with some denominations, don't hang it on the tithes. Asides tithes, i want to guess that those denominations also preach prosperity and healing. Why not react by deciding to live in penury and sickness, why is it only tithe you choose to abstain from? Because of convenience i guess. Think it through and face the message, not the messenger.

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Christianity Etc › Re: The truth your pastor would not tell you about tithes by brocab: 2:32am On Aug 15, 2018*

You keep on talking that tithing ought to be done, but you haven't produce the scripture to back up your theory.
The law on tithing, was the Mosaic law! Which today it doesn't exist, not in Israel..nor does the old tithing law-exist with you, not your Church, in this day and age name any Church that actually tithes Old testament of herbs, stocks crops, and mechanise yearly..
The Pharisees asked Jesus do we pay taxes, Jesus said to them, “give back to Caesar what is Caesar’s, and to God what is God’s.
This is simple enough to understand-Render your tax money to the Government, render our flesh back to God..
You claim you are not under the law to tithe-you are deafeningly under Church law every week, they preach tithing, they practice tithing, you sit under them and tithe, practicing tithing the way they teach tithing!
I don't care if you refuse the Word of God-it's your choice, {The Word of God is not against tithing itself' it's against the corruption the Church brings against tithing for financial gain}
And sadly you are in amongst them, joining in their craftiness against the Word of God. Against God's people-preaching the unbiblical doctrines, praying you will become richer, then you already are through the greed you and your Church have.
{1 Timothy 6:3-5} "If anyone teaches otherwise and does not consent to wholesome words, even the words of our Lord Jesus Christ, and to the doctrine which accords with godliness, he is proud, knowing nothing, but is obsessed with disputes and arguments over words, from which come envy, strife, reviling, evil suspicions, useless wranglings of men of corrupt minds and destitute of the truth, who suppose that godliness is a means of gain. From such withdraw yourself.
I think this say's it all, Churches asking for money each week in tithes, it is this that causes disputes amongst us, and uses godliness for their means to gain.
{This is enough for me, to realise the Church isn't interested what God said: their focus is all about the cash, time and time again more evidence is flying in all direction, the Church is not old news, it continual's its rampage all over the world}
God's people are sick, they are sick of Churches ripping them off, the Church is no-longer a safe haven for the lost sheep, the broken hearted, the poor, the hungry. Sad isn't it?
{Ezekiel 34:1-6} ‘Thus says the Lord God to the shepherds: “Woe to the shepherds of Israel who feed themselves! Should not the shepherds feed the flocks?
They eat the fat and clothe themselves with the wool; they slaughter the fatlings, but they do not feed the flock. The weak they have not strengthened, nor have they healed those who were sick, nor bound up the broken, nor brought back what was driven away, nor sought what was lost; but with force and cruelty they have ruled them. So they were scattered because there was no shepherd; and they became food for all the beasts of the field when they were scattered.
My sheep wandered through all the mountains, and on every high hill; yes, My flock was scattered over the whole face of the earth, and no one was seeking or searching for them.
Even thru Jesus said: withdraw ourselves-obviously He is warning us-and I take this into account the tares among the wheat are plenty, and the Word of God is known to the believers that realise-many are called, but few are chosen..I don't know about you, but I seek the Lord as much as I can, and I believe His Word, well enough to obey His commands, there is no way do I want to believe anything I hear without testing the Word of God..

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i am not under the law, neither are you. So stop this obsession about the law. The Bible does not in any place talk about or divide tithe into law, it simply calls/qualifies it tithe, both before and during the law. And all your talk about hypocrites makes no sense because many of Jesus important messages were equally addressed to Pharisees and their likes like John 3v16 and Render to God the things that are God's. It will be ignorant if not myopic to think in this way you are attempting to and say it does not apply to all. Jesus never said it ought to be done by hypocrites, He simply stated that it ought to be done.

You have just opined that judgment, mercy, and faith are of the law all in your bid to dissuade people from tithing. i will continue to do justice, mercy, faith and to tithe as long as God grants me life. He has in no place said it should stop. People gave tithes of all that they possessed. i will give tithes of what i possess too. If God does not like it, He will say. Your opinions are inconsequential.

i guess you would have personally gone to stop them if they did. A centurion built a synagogue, you think they would stop him from giving tithe. smh.

Glory be to God, i am not under the law. Your point is mute.

i was not taught the way you were, sorry. The Word of God says tithing ought to be done, i do it. Simples. It does not bring the condemnation of God for i am justified by faith not by works.

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Christianity Etc › Re: The truth your pastor would not tell you about tithes by brocab: 6:49am On Aug 14, 2018*

Where did Jesus say tithes ought be done..
{Matthew 23:23} Hypocrites! For you pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have neglected the weightier matters of the law: justice and mercy and faith. These you ought to have done, without leaving the others undone!
So does this mean tithers are hypocrites?
It is absolutely clear that {Matthew 23:23} is the “scribes and Pharisees”! “You” neither refers to Jesus’ disciples nor to the church! The scribes and Pharisees were the ones sitting in Moses’ seat –not his disciples. They were the ones interpreting the Law –not his disciples.
“Hypocrites”: The scribes and Pharisees are the hypocrites --not Jesus’ disciples. They were the ones who had exaggerated the Law to make it a burden. And they were ones who refused to obey the laws they had exaggerated! Jesus is not disciplining his disciples!
“For you pay tithe of mint and anise and cumin …” The “you” is still the scribes and Pharisees from “woe is you scribes and Pharisees”! As interpreters of the Law they had exaggerated it to include ordinary garden spices which the Law had never included.
The Mishnah and Talmud, not the Bible, defined tithes as "everything eatable, everything that was stored up or that grew out of the earth.”
The Pharisees prided themselves with scrupulous obedience to circumcision, Sabbath-keeping and tithing. They wanted the Jews to think that they could observe these three rites even better than what was expected of the Law. Meticulously counting micro-small spice seeds was their way of boasting.
While quoting this very text to prove that Jesus taught tithing to the Church, there is probably no church on earth which tells its members to literally bring tithes of garden spices.

“And [you] have omitted the weightier matters of the law -- judgment, mercy, and faith.”
Jesus is telling the scribes and Pharisees that judgment, mercy and faith” are more important “matters of the law” than is tithing.
It is incredible how often Christian tithe-teachers quote this verse and omit “of the law.” They then tell us that Jesus taught tithing and omit the historical context of the verse, the chapter and the covenant.
In fact, ALL of Matthew 22 and 23 is in the context of “matters of the law.” The Herodians had asked, "Is it lawful to give tribute to Caesar, or not?" {Matt. 22:17}
In the next discussion Jesus rebuked the Sadducees by quoting from the law {Matt. 22:32, Exod. 3:6} next, one of the Pharisees asked, "Master, which is the great commandment in the law?" {Matt. 22:36}
{Matthew 23}" continues the discussion of “matters of the law.”
“These you ought to have done, without leaving the other undone.” Again I have never heard of a church which required its tithers to bring tithes “of mint and anise and cumin” and demand that they “ought to have done” so in obedience to Jesus’ command in {Matthew 23:23}
If this verse is supposed to be interpreted as Jesus’ command for Christians to tithe money (which the text does not clearly state) then it should also be interpreted as Jesus’ command for the church to tithe garden spices according to the Law (which the text does clearly state).
When Jesus said in {verse 23}"You should have practiced the latter, without neglecting the former," he was re-enforcing for Jews, not the moral law which is eternal, but the current interpretation of the ordinances of the ceremonial law of the Old Covenant.
In fact, Jesus could not have told Gentile Christians “These you ought to have done” because Gentiles were not allowed to bring tithes and tithes would not have been accepted even it they attempted to bring them! In order to be legitimate, tithes must only come from Israelites and only from inside Israel!
Jesus only commanded Jews to observe the Mosaic Law and present themselves to the priests. He did not command non-Jews to do this because their lives were not governed by the Mosaic Law.
It was not possible under the Law for non-Jews to be circumcised or tithe.
Again I am not expecting you to study the truth-I am not expecting you to believe in the truth-but if you are willing the truth is here if you need it..
I understand-we were all taught about tithing, we were deceived too, but don't worry we are brothers supporting brothers, we have nothing against you personally, but the Word of God's there if you are seeking.

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In the Bible.

i give more than 10percent. You are supposing yet again, don't be presumptuous.

What makes you think that you are wasting your life?

Are you here to discuss the church? What church, your own or mine or Christ's?

Sincerely, you lost me here, i don't understand what you are saying.

Well, i am not guided by what anyone told you personally. i am guided by Jesus who said that tithes ought to be done. There are many roads to being blessed BTW. And there are many definitions of BLESSED too.

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