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 Christianity Etc › Re: The truth your pastor would not tell you about tithes by brocab: 7:03am On Sep 29, 2017*. Modified: 8:16am On Sep 29, 2017 |
Thanks brother, yes when tithing began it caused a lot of problems, and its causing problems now, but a tither won't ever read the scriptures that proves otherwise. {Matthew 23} says it all, in {Matthew 23:23} a tithers greed towards man kind. When we read the Word of God Jesus always had problems against the pharisee tithers, and again we have the same problems with them today, nothing had changed. No wonder God didn't tell Jesus to preach on tithing. People come in all sizes, from all walks of life 'claiming they are Christian, some by good works, others became born again. I don't call myself a Christian, as I did when I first came to Christ, I just followed the Church, It was when I found myself studying the Word of God, I found there is a large gap between the believers and Christians, no-one needs to be saved and still be called a Christian, we just need to look at religion to know that. In every Church I could only find a small group of believers that loved the Lord, while the rest of the Church didn't, every Church I found had a price tag to it, some 30 fold, others 60, and most 100 fold money back guarantee. I am sure we had spoken with many Christians over the years, I found with more then the few, none of them, born again Christians had ever heard a whisper from God, never had a dream, nor a vision, most of them never knew God speaks through the bible, many have never touch their bibles, nor had they read their bibles, many are afraid of their bibles, and what I found more shameful the Church relies on the pastor to read it for them. No-one test the spirit, nor test the Word the pastor gives them, pastors are knowing to be wrong, this is a big risk to take, many are called but few are chosen, most Christians don't realise most of them won't even see the Lord, and if the pastor told the Church to jump of the bridge I suppose some people may realise it isn't the right thing to do, but most had already jumped. This is where we come into the picture-we just need to keep spreading the Word out there, it only takes one man/woman to know the truth, and that truth could spread like wild fire through a multitude of tithers. MrPristine: |
| Christianity Etc › Re: Higher Everyday — Making Wrong Right by brocab: 4:54am On Sep 28, 2017*. Modified: 6:00am On Sep 28, 2017 |
No I don't call myself a Christian, these days people from all walks of life call themselves Christians, it doesn't prove they are. I myself am a believer in Christ-but you wouldn't recognise me, as one like you? We don't have to beat around the bush but we both know we preach two different doctrines. And if this man is your pastor-as you boast, than I suppose you wouldn't feel you need to read the scriptures, since you have this man on your team, It amazes me, why nearly every Church around the globe refuses {1 Timothy 6:3-5} that say's "Men of corrupt minds destitute of the truth, who suppose that godliness is their means to Financial gain. Jesus then said: From such withdraw yourselves.. "Don't Christians ever read their bibles anymore, we believers do-God never preaches about tithing, God had always preached on giving. {Matthew 6:21} Where your treasure is, there your heart will be also. OLAADEGBU: |
| Christianity Etc › Re: Higher Everyday — Making Wrong Right by brocab: 7:55am On Sep 27, 2017*. Modified: 8:41am On Sep 27, 2017 |
This is a interesting subject to go along with: Let us be truthful, and allow me to say, "There are more Christians these days who claim they have never had a encounter with the Lord? Many Christians are either confused by their own mistakes, or confused by the Churches mistakes, how God operates, and how God reaches out to His own people.. I believe becoming a born again believer, is a manger key to open up our hearts towards the Lord, automatically we have a spirit filled connection between God and man, everything the Lord uses to connect, we are connected.. Christians that claim they have never heard from God, are like Christians caught up in a flood. The floods came and was beating on their house-and God see's the raging floods beating against that house. Then the Christians called out to God, saying God save us, "and God responded to their call, "as God had always promised He would." And God sends out a helicopter nearby, the Christians refused God's rescue, the helicopter leaves to save others, the Christians called out again' God save us, God's sends them a boat, and the Christians refused that too. Later the floods came and took them all away, and as they entered into heaven, they said to God, why didn't you save us, God said: I did, I sent you a helicopter, and a boat, and both times you didn't hear "My voice". God said: Seek and you will find, knock and it will be open, everyone that ask, God will be there..God can reach out every-way possible, a Television, a movie, a radio, a sign on the side of a road, God's Word is the bible, God used a donkey, even a burning bush. God will never leave us, Many Christians haven't the faith to believe God will never leave us, or believe in us, Many are called, but few are chosen, pray unto the Lord, because every encounter with the lord, is the lords. God is the living God, everything God does, and everything God says, believe it.. And Christ will believe in you.. Just going to a Church, helping a little old lady cross the road won't help you into heaven, to be a believer in Christ, is a lot more to just dream you have made it? Jesus may even say to some of the Christians , He never knew them. Try it sometime... OLAADEGBU: |
| Christianity Etc › Re: Higher Everyday — Making Wrong Right by brocab: 3:19am On Sep 27, 2017*. Modified: 3:34am On Sep 27, 2017 |
I don't know? Are you the preacher, or are you not? It was just a simple ask, but hey, if you feel it is to much for you answer, then don't... But I wouldn't like to be a pastor, these days pastors are taught to take all the enjoyment out from preaching the word of God..  OLAADEGBU: |
| Christianity Etc › Re: Higher Everyday — Making Wrong Right by brocab: 11:29pm On Sep 25, 2017*. Modified: 3:31am On Sep 26, 2017 |
Is this your pastor, or is this you in person?.. OLAADEGBU: |
| Christianity Etc › Re: Higher Everyday — Making Wrong Right by brocab: 5:25am On Sep 22, 2017*. Modified: 4:07am On Sep 26, 2017 |
Great message, and it sounds easy, but have you ever been out there in the streets to see it done, have you witnessed on the street corners yelling out the gospel of Christ so people will hear you? Have you Evangelised around the neighbourhood, sharing with friends and family, have you ever seen what the latest news brings forward across the globe, the Word of God is now classed as discrimination, no-one tolerates discrimination in the schools, nor the work place, not even the public, haven't you heard, people are harassed and arrested by police over street preaching, charged with discrimination in a public place. And Jesus did say we must obey the law of the land. {Romans 13:1-14} Haven't you seen it, in some countries people are slaughtered, I can't see the rapture story coming our way very soon. You ask what kind of messages do we send? I may ask, what sort of messages do you send to the people, didn't we just have a discussion about tithing. I hope tithing won't be your message? OLAADEGBU: |
| Christianity Etc › Re: Tithes And Offerings by brocab: 3:09am On Sep 22, 2017*. Modified: 8:39am On Sep 22, 2017 |
If you are going to bring in the armor, at least bring it with some truth. Is {Malachi 3:8-10} the bible way of explaining, You tithe because God's blessing you with rain, so your herds and your crops a flourishing every year? Or is {Malachi 3:8-10} the tithers way of explaining, you tithe because God's blessing you with money, so your mansions and your bank accounts are flourishing every year. Obedience only comes to the people when they choose it rightly. OLAADEGBU: |
| Christianity Etc › Re: Tithes And Offerings by brocab: 6:21am On Sep 21, 2017*. Modified: 9:09am On Sep 22, 2017 |
{Genesis 28:20-22} There isn't any record to say Jacob actually tithed, we have all made our vows to God promising something in our lives and haven't kept them, many of us have walked away from God? {Genesis 14:18-20} There isn't any proof Melchisedec was a representative Jesus, plus we all know it was a pagan Arab custom to tithe, and Abraham said: he did not want King Soldom to boast for making him rich, {And in our day's the pastors boast how they are rich} Abraham tithed from the spoils of war, everything that didn't belong to him, but there's no record of him tithing everything that did belong to him, after that. Faithful children of Abraham you say-so do I tithe the way Abraham tithed, since none of the goods belonged to him, so do I go to war and fight the battle, and tithe his way? Would this make me more faithful like you? All maybe if I was to tithe with my own spoils of war, would I be a blesser person than Abraham was towards God.. {I had spoken to many tithers over the years, and this is what many of them believe, tithers a more blessed, then a non tither} But Jesus said: we are all equally blessed.{Romans 2:11} For God does not show favouritism. And there's no-record of anybody paying Jesus a tithe, nor is there any record God told Jesus to tithe, and if Jesus was Melchisedec back then, as you believe he is, then one would think, Jesus would have kept up His good works to collect more tithes, and gave it out to the people-just as God wanted the Livites to do, instead they preferred to rip Him off in tithes and offerings... {Matthew 23:23} Do tithers actually read this verse, there's no where written that Jesus said we must keep the tithing laws still. If we were to study the bible, {Matthew 23} Jesus wasn't pleased about anything the Pharisees done, so verse 23 wouldn't have made a difference to Jesus anyway, the Pharisees weren't collecting tithes of mint cummin and anise, the Pharisees were devouring widows houses and with their long prayers, they expected the two mites story to be put into the treasury. "{This is why tithers tithe they believe they are blessed each week after they pay God their weekly 10% wage?} Tithers know the Jews don't pay tithes, If the Church paid more attention on the Word of God, then they would take note what is going on around this planet, they will put their money in the best places, people wouldn't be dying of starvation, and where else it is needed. If Jesus wanted us to tithe money-He Himself would have made a point of it, but instead He spoke more against it. I am so glad I have made my choice-my decision is don't do anything, Jesus wouldn't do. Did God tell you to tithe when you ask Him, or are you just guessing He may of told you in word.  OLAADEGBU: |
| Christianity Etc › Re: Tithes And Offerings by brocab: 9:30am On Sep 20, 2017 |
As I have mentioned before hand, my prayer to the Lord was about tithing, and yes God told me in Word not to tithe-if God wanted me to tithe, God would have given me a scripture telling me to tithe, but God didn't 'He gave me the opposite-birds don't sow nor reap nor put into barns-and yet the Lord feeds them-how much more am I. This verse is not telling me to tithe.. I just find it strange why people believe God told them to tithe, everybody knows tithing became a problem from the start-Abraham tithed once from the spoils of war, the Levites were ripping of God, and the Pharisees devoured widows to pay more.. Why would God tell people to tithe when all it did was caused heaps of problems. OLAADEGBU: |
| Christianity Etc › Re: Tithes And Offerings by brocab: 9:11am On Sep 20, 2017 |
I did answer it as clear as I could-Now I will ask the same question did God tell you to tithe? OLAADEGBU: |
| Christianity Etc › Re: Tithes And Offerings by brocab: 12:53am On Sep 20, 2017 |
Are you expecting me to add to another lie, you believe all Christians should tithe? All are you ready for the truth-God didn't tell Jesus to tithe, so why would God tell you to tithe. OLAADEGBU: |
| Christianity Etc › Re: Tithes And Offerings by brocab: 3:23pm On Sep 18, 2017*. Modified: 2:00am On Sep 19, 2017 |
I had tested God about tithing, only because it was never on my heart to tithe-it made no sense, God calls us freely to give us life, and the Church demands 10%. I have heard people say to me, God told them to tithe-Well He never told me to tithe, matter of fact God told me the opposite, after I cried out to God, praying, the Spirit of the Lord gave me this verse {Matthew 6:26} Look at the birds of the air, they neither sow, nor do they reap, nor put into barns, and yet the Lord feeds them, how much more valuable are you. The birds neither sow a tithe, and we are more valuable then they-so why should we, the birds never reaped tithes, again we are more valuable then birds, the birds don't put into barns, neither are we to put into barns, and yet God feeds both birds and people for the same reasons. As you can see I don't tithe, and God never told me to tithe-I am equally blessed just as much as the next person, I give just as good as anybody else. If God told people to tithe-then why has tithing got such a bad name to it, why didn't Abraham continual to tithe, why did the Levites feel they had to rip of God in tithes, and why did the Pharisees devour widows to tithe. |
| Christianity Etc › Re: Tithes And Offerings by brocab: 3:22pm On Sep 18, 2017 |
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| Christianity Etc › Re: Tithes And Offerings by brocab: 1:08pm On Sep 18, 2017*. Modified: 2:29am On Sep 19, 2017 |
Why didn't Jesus tithe? Not because He was disobeying His Father, the truth is nothing good came out of tithing. Abraham tithed from the spoils of war "Once" {Genesis 14} The Levites were ripping of God {Malachi 3} And the pharisees greed devoured widows {Matthew 23} This is the many reasons why Jesus didn't tithe, because nothing good came out of tithing.. Tithing is nothing to be proud off-it isn't a law-and God never gave us a command to tithe-Jesus didn't tithe because God didn't tell Him to tithe. "Tithers would argue tithes are taxes, taxes is the law-and a tax is not a tithe giving to a Church. Tithing causes deputes, arguments, evil suspicion, envy strife, it causes men of corrupt minds destitute of the truth who suppose that godliness is their means to financial gain. Jesus said: from such withdraw yourselves. {1 Timothy 6:3-5} Today's preachers collect tithes from criminals, The Church ripping of God. And the TV preaches are devouring widows. We have heard TV preachers say something on these lines, "They had a vision-and they can see-there are widows out there that needs to be blessed, just send in a $1000 and the Lord will bless you with these needs. This is our daily Church of men and women the bible warns us about, men of corrupt minds destitute of the truth who suppose that godliness is the means of tithing financial gain. BlueAngel444: |
| Christianity Etc › Re: The truth your pastor would not tell you about tithes by brocab: 5:30am On Sep 16, 2017*. Modified: 3:50am On Sep 22, 2017 |
Brainwashing is one of the biggest things the Church rely upon. I remember the days when I was ready to become a believer in Christ, the days the Lord accepted me into His Kingdom-the day's I wanted to learn about Him-and the day's I studied the bible, I remember the day's I started going to a Church-not knowing what to expect. The first thing I was told by the Church was I must pay 10% tithes-I never understood the logic-why God calls people into His kingdom-to give us life, and then the Church "Not God" demands us to pay a weekly wage. I would cry out to the Lord-and say to Him, Lord show me in Word where it says I need to pay tithes? As a young Christian I never understood the answer, but I pushed myself to know why the Lord called me into His Kingdom freely, and why His Church demands tithes unfreely, it took me some time to learn the scriptures, and it took me sometime to learn how God speaks to us, I retrieved the answer-God never said we were to pay tithes in the first place. No where could I find that the Gentiles "Christians" paid tithes back then, nor do they today, Christians would give me {Malachi, Genesis and Matthew} to study, which tells us some Jews paid tithes, either from the spoils of war-or the Pharisees deceiving widows, or the Levites ripping of God, as the scriptures shows us-tithing causes disputes and arguments, evil suspicion-wrangling of men of corrupt minds who suppose the godliness is a means of financial gain. "So why would God continual with the tithing system in this day and age, when it hadn't changed from the past? If we were to ask a Jew today if they still pay tithes-their answer is "No, they say, it was a thing from the past. But the question is, why do Christians believe tithing still stands, Jesus didn't pay tithes, because God never told Him to pay tithes. Churches demanding money is actually doing us a lot of damages, people need God-they don't need pastors that teach this unbiblical money back guarantee. {Matthew 6:26} Look at the birds of the air, they neither sow, nor do they reap-nor do they put into barns, and yet your Heavenly Father feeds them, are you not more valuable then these. How much more valuable are people, and yet we don't sow, nor reap, nor put into barns and yet the Lord feeds us, He takes care of us, He said; ask and it shall be given you, seek and you shall find, knock and it will be open unto you, for "Everyone" that ask will receive. Many Christians believe giving their first fruits tithe is a type of works that God will honor it 'with more Blessings then a none tither, do you not know the Lord Blesses us equally-No-one is Blessed more then the other. 1 Like |
| Christianity Etc › Re: The truth your pastor would not tell you about tithes by brocab: 3:37am On Sep 15, 2017*. Modified: 4:38am On Sep 15, 2017 |
Many are called-but few are chosen-we are all starting to see this verse more clearly everyday, Your friend and many others are led by the blind that leads the blind. Christ warned us about these times to come, You sat with your friend-and gave him the scriptures, and word from word he agreed-and still your friend had turned his back on Christ, the world also turns its back on Christ, "these are Christians who belong to the world, and the world loves its own, and the world hears them. We see this all the time so called Christians half believing and never coming to the truth-Jesus says we will know them by their fruit, many will be deceived by evil men, who are proud knowing nothing, causing disputes and arguments over words from which comes envy strife, reviling evil suspicions, useless wrangling of men of corrupt minds destitute of the truth who suppose that godliness is the means of financial gain, Jesus said: from such withdraw from them. {1 Timothy 6:3-5} "But does anybody listen? Its sad about your friend-bro-but we are now in these last days-not only our closes friends, but families are turning against the Word of God. To be honest it is a lonely walk to be a believer in Christ-the numbers are climbing higher each day-Christians are falling away from Christ by the thousands-If I was to lay a number down on the table-I would say 87% out of a 100 Christians don't read their bibles, it is rare to hear people talk about Christ after a sermon, I have found Christians are more favourable about the worlds activities, than they are towards God. Christians believe God is so far away, He can't hear us-Christians believe asking God for repentance and forgiveness is a sin, Christians are more lovers of themselves-rather then love one another, the world acts as Christians act. I don't know Adeboye-but I have read little about him-he isn't any different to the other prosperity preachers on the raise-these men and women are just doing what Satan had told them to do, everyone has a choice bro-it doesn't matter what lies these people have said-and how they twist the bible-its up to those who are listening to them-and if people aren't reading their bibles-they will be deceived by evil men and impostors like these. You and I don't follow-because we had a choice-we chose Christ "Your friend in the other hand chose the cash before Christ, he aren't any different to the next person who follows after these wolves in sheep clothing, and that's a fact bro' "We have choices-we are either to lazy to accept our responsibilities and read the Word of God-or we can go after the money, your friend chose the cash-nearly every Church I have walked into are all doing the same. "Mammon comes before God... By their fruit we will know them.. MrPristine: 1 Like |
| Christianity Etc › Re: The truth your pastor would not tell you about tithes by brocab: 4:16am On Sep 12, 2017*. Modified: 11:46am On Sep 14, 2017 |
I agree with you-but we just need one person at a time, I don't have a Church I can call home-I don't need a reason, but Churches these days are boring, Churches remind me of night clubs, both places aren't any different to the other, they both share in the cost. The Churches are businesses-they aren't any different to the worldly businesses, everyone makes the buck, the Church these days are more focused on the numbers of people that bring in the cash flow every week, every Churches these day's are signed up with Government funding's, without them' the Church wouldn't support their schooling's nor studies, and other activities the Church brings forward. People are lazy they believe everything the Pastors tell them-Christians have a lazy attitude to study their bibles, none test the word-nor the spirit behind it-the tithing lie isn't biblical, but it doesn't stop the pastors to be dishonest and collect a wager every week, "While the rest of the Church struggles to make ends meat. Preachers are rising the stakes high-Pastors need money and plenty of it-there's a war going on between the rich and the poor, people believe Mammon will save the unsaved, Mammon has a completely wrong attitude towards God, it believes, one is saved under the health and wealth act, "While the poor believes Jesus saves.. Mammon is the Word faith movement of prosperity preachers, that caused the Churches to fall under the multi million dollar businesses, using God's Word for their own financial gain.{1 Timothy 6:3-5} And many Christian have falling because of it. {Matthew 8:20} "Jesus said: Foxes have holes, birds have nest, but I have no place to rest my head. I had entered into "a" Church the other week, and I had asked, if they preach tithing, the lady at the door spoke to me and said yes, I told her it wasn't biblical-she told me it is biblical-I then said to her "What is biblical" you need to read your bible" she stopped for a second, put her head down to the side-and nodded up and down-without saying a word.. "The biblical message got through to her.. This is one of the biggest problems the Church has today, the preachers preach-the money, and every Sunday they preach again, if tithers read their bibles well enough to know the know, we wouldn't be sharing the truth to them, but instead the tithers are shown scriptures that sounds like-without testing the scriptures it is impossible for them to know, we can't worship God and mammon at the same time. MrPristine: |
| Christianity Etc › Re: Why Do Catholics Pray With The Rosary, And Bow To Mary's Statue? by brocab: 10:26pm On Sep 08, 2017*. Modified: 11:08pm On Aug 08, 2019 |
The world had changed people from all walks of life, who are now focused more about their Church beliefs-than they are preaching about Christ. The times are here-the Lord spoke to us about these end times, before His coming-everyone who knows Jesus believe these are the times to be watching, our world is changing at a faster rate. Rumors of wars-it is told that Nth Korea is begging for war, a young Nth Korean man played computer games all his life had finely laid the world at his feet, that the US claims it will be finish in just 45 minutes. "But is this true? Times such as these will be so terrifying just the thought of war fear's everybody-our future plans had ended just in a flash, just as the bible had describe it to be, after being slaughtered by our enemies in war, our terrifying savage experiences on Earth-just came to an end-, Judgement day had began-standing in front of God-knowing in your hearts, you didn't truly believe Christ ever existed-you had been playing the fool-, claiming you know God, living a life style like kings on earth-and yet your heart deceives you. If fear is not your problem on earth-then fear in Hell for eternity!! Fearing God, lifting up Holy hands and praying always, pray to repent-asking the lord to save us from these terrible times to come, tribulation and persecution had began, Children, parents are slaughtered every day by Isis' and other malicious groups that hate our Christian faith, Jesus had warn us these times are already here. The Lord will separate the tares from the wheat, the wolves from the sheep. Our Christian families and friends, our Children, will stand before us-saving themselves-we will be cast in prison cells in camps to be slaughtered, millions will die, we will hate one another, betray one another, denying the Word of God to one another, we will be hated by "All Nations. Every Church that claims to be a friend of Christ, will suffer persecution .. The bible teaches us, one must be born again before one can enter into the Kingdom of God, If this is to much to ask-we must believe to be saved, then obviously you don't understand the scriptures, Jesus had given you life for eternity, we will stand before Him on judgement day, there's no other way" Jesus is the door, asking the Lord into your hearts and receiving the Holy spirit will save you, He will change you' for Him. Jesus is coming, and He spoke about these end of days event's-{Danial, Matthew, Mark, Luke, Revelation} Matthew-the days of Noah' "Is now. Are we the Church walking with God-Is the Church reading the Word of God, Is the Church seeking fellowship with God, does the Church know God, are you the few, God calls? {Acts 2:17} In the last days, "God says" I will pour out My Spirit on all people, your sons and daughters will prophesy. your young men will see visions, your old men will dream dreams. And sure enough, the end time news are flying in all directions. {Matthew 24} Two men will be in the field, one will be taken the other one left-two women will be in the mill-one will be taken and the other one left. Many are called but few are chosen-it isn't a hard decision, don't hold back, test yourselves-it only takes a spilt second to die, You may not be sure, if you are walking with Christ, just ask the Lord into your hearts now-repent and forgive, trust in Him and believe. |
| Christianity Etc › Re: Why Do Catholics Pray With The Rosary, And Bow To Mary's Statue? by brocab: 9:01am On Aug 29, 2017 |
Interesting...You believe the Angel spoke to John in 1:12 It must of been the angel that John seen too in all his glory.Good bye johnw74: |
| Christianity Etc › Re: Why Do Catholics Pray With The Rosary, And Bow To Mary's Statue? by brocab: 8:54am On Aug 29, 2017 |
I haven't replied these things to try and help you, because you are lost and beyond help i have told you to show you once again how you have been blinded, although i'm sure you cannot see it So you would rather use the Word of God as your tool to attack the believers. Finely you have told the truth. End of story-I have finished trying to get the Word of God from you, All I have learn from you is insults bullying and abuse. johnw74: |
| Christianity Etc › Re: Why Do Catholics Pray With The Rosary, And Bow To Mary's Statue? by brocab: 8:39am On Aug 29, 2017 |
No-one is interested in your bad language-just answer the question who spoke to John and when? johnw74: |
| Christianity Etc › Re: Why Do Catholics Pray With The Rosary, And Bow To Mary's Statue? by brocab: 8:03am On Aug 29, 2017 |
I am not understanding how you read your bible? And who is Jesus angel? {Revelation 1:1} Are you saying the angel didn't speak a word to John, and the first Word spoken was only in 1:12?[/color] And if you think God is in your picture calling me names of insults and abuse of bullying-then think again. johnw74: |
| Christianity Etc › Re: Why Do Catholics Pray With The Rosary, And Bow To Mary's Statue? by brocab: 7:16am On Aug 29, 2017*. Modified: 7:51am On Aug 29, 2017 |
Are you now trying to hide behind God after you insulted and abuse me-Do you actually believe God is involved with you, after you keep on ripping down one of His children, you don't really believe God is actually in this picture? "Who are you trying to fool, I already know why you couldn't give a direct answer to 1:12 because you didn't know it? You kept on repeating yourself, giving me [Revelation 1:1, 22:16} these verses were your answer-and giving me these verses shows you believed John seen the angel when he turned around-and this is why you went over the top insulting and abusing me-because you wanted me to see, what you had seen. Praise the Lord for His Word, you aren't fooling Him, and you aren't fooling me neither. I myself have learnt a lot more about the word of God by others on this forum-but sadly I didn't learn from you.. After everyone who had read your pages-I am sure they wouldn't want me too... johnw74: |
| Christianity Etc › Re: Why Do Catholics Pray With The Rosary, And Bow To Mary's Statue? by brocab: 3:37am On Aug 29, 2017 |
Men will be lovers of themselves He is Proud knowing nothing but is absessed with deputes and arguments over words, from which comes envy. strife, reviling evil suspicions, useless men of corrupt minds, and destitute of the truth... No-one is interested in your lies and wonders... johnw74: |
| Christianity Etc › Re: Why Do Catholics Pray With The Rosary, And Bow To Mary's Statue? by brocab: 3:33am On Aug 29, 2017 |
God is our Father-He teaches us His love for us, as we are to love one another. kandywandy23: |
| Christianity Etc › Re: Why Do Catholics Pray With The Rosary, And Bow To Mary's Statue? by brocab: 10:25pm On Aug 28, 2017 |
End of argument finely you have come to your senses-finely you have read the scriptures and you have admitted John was talking with Jesus in 1:12. How long had It taken you to write such, and how long did I have to wait-for your answer-you didn't know the answer-until you read the scriptures, Just in your own words-Your argument was your own-end of story. Now kept your abusive nature to yourself-since you love bringing people down-without a reason-don't write to me anymore-don't engage on whom I write to on this forum..I am not interested with your insults and with your lies you like to spread around without a cause.. johnw74: |
| Christianity Etc › Re: Why Do Catholics Pray With The Rosary, And Bow To Mary's Statue? by brocab: 2:57am On Aug 28, 2017 |
| And you haven't explained anything to me yet, I can't wait until you do..Did John seen Christ, or did he see an Angel? |
| Christianity Etc › Re: Why Do Catholics Pray With The Rosary, And Bow To Mary's Statue? by brocab: 2:56am On Aug 28, 2017 |
You are telling me-John was with the Angel-and he never heard a voice behind him that sounded like a trumpet-and when he turned he never seen Christ in all His glory? johnw74: |
| Christianity Etc › Re: Why Do Catholics Pray With The Rosary, And Bow To Mary's Statue? by brocab: 1:48am On Aug 28, 2017*. Modified: 2:54am On Aug 28, 2017 |
johnw74:Like if you could explain yourself more clearly-which you had refuse to do-then maybe we could understand how you see {Revelation 1:12} Whom do you say John seen? And because you have refused to say it in your own words, then by the scriptures you have giving me {Revelation 1:1, 22:16} Then through guessing-I believe, you believe, John seen an Angel instead of Christ, in verse 1:12? If this isn't true, than I expect you to correct me, if I am wrong.. |
| Christianity Etc › Re: Why Do Catholics Pray With The Rosary, And Bow To Mary's Statue? by brocab: 4:37am On Aug 25, 2017 |
I suppose everyone is a lair to you-because you believe John seen the angel of the Lord instead of Jesus in verse 1:12 Some mothers do have them-man how confused you really are-you can't see it. I couldn't believe how disappointed I was to listen to your bad mouthing-you have a bad attitude, and after everything we had gone through-and you have the cheek to call yourself a Christian? To be honest your mouth is like a dirty rage, a lair everything you have accused me off isn't true-I had given you the Word of God as it's written-I suppose you deny this too. Your lies-your insults and abuse towards a brother in Christ-and your denial against John's vision in verse 1:12, You had accused others who have other beliefs of the very same thing, denying the Word of God-you hypocrite-you told the JW's and the Catholic's off for not believing in the truth, and now look at you-you are doing the same thing as they had done. Pull yourself together man-get back to the program-the Word of God is so clear, how it is written-you couldn't explain yourself to me Johno because you knew John didn't see the angel of the Lord, John seen Jesus as it is written in bible knowledge..... johnw74: |
| Christianity Etc › Re: Why Do Catholics Pray With The Rosary, And Bow To Mary's Statue? by brocab: 3:54am On Aug 25, 2017 |
No but you did say John seen the angel of the lord in {Revelation 1:12} And why don't you try reading it-he is showing the same scriptures you have put across to me. johnw74: |
| Christianity Etc › Re: Why Do Catholics Pray With The Rosary, And Bow To Mary's Statue? by brocab: 3:30am On Aug 25, 2017 |
I think this fellow can explain it better than I can. Jesus Was Not An Angel Commentary for January 10, 2004 — Presupposition Versus Biblical Consistency I recently came across a scholarly article abstract that proposed that Jesus Christ was an angel. It said that He was introduced as an angel in the beginning and presented again at the end of the book of Revelation. This caught my interest because, if true, this would seem to contradict a passage that says the direct opposite. Look at the first passage: “The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him [Jesus], to show unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John: Who bore record of the word of God, and of the testimony of Jesus Christ, and of all things that he saw.” • Revelation 1:1–2 The author of this paper presumably identifies Jesus Christ with the angel, claiming them to be the same person. However, John presents in the gospel of John chapter 1 (and reminds us in Revelation 1:1) that Jesus is the Word of God. The Word of God is the Creator, the direct agent of God the Father, which is distinct from being angel or a carrier of a message from God. The text of verse 1:1 says that there are three beings involved in the transmission of the Revelation to John. First is Jesus Christ who is “unveiled.” Second is God the Father who gave it to Jesus Christ. Jesus Christ then “sent and signified it by his angel.” The angel bore record of the Word of God. The angel was the means from whom John received the direct message, just like the angels were sent to deliver messages to the churches of Revelation and elsewhere (Revelation 2:1, 8, 12, 18; 3:1, 7, 14; 22:16). It is always important to note in the book of Revelation WHO is speaking and WHAT is seen by John. If you keep those two elements in mind, your understanding the book of Revelation will be easier. What John saw and heard was the Revelation of Jesus Christ from God the Father. The angel assisted (1) by taking it to John, (2) by commenting on what John saw and heard and (3) by answering questions direct to John. There are elements of close similarity and even identical phrases between Revelation 1:1 and Revelation 22:6. This is well known to scholars. If you diagram the sentences (keeping in mind that word order in Greek is somewhat flexible) the identity is even stronger. It is not too difficult to see how someone could identify Jesus with the angel. “And he [the angel] said unto me, ‘These sayings are faithful and true: and the Lord God of the holy prophets sent his angel to show unto his servants the things which must shortly [Greek, same as quickly below] be done. Behold, I come quickly: blessed is he that keeps the sayings of the prophecy of this book.’ And I John saw these things, and heard them. And when I had heard and seen, I fell down to worship ...” • Revelation 22:6–8 In Revelation 1:1 John is writing and describing the process of transmission. In Revelation 22:6 the angel is speaking and John is writing down his words. The angel is quoting Jesus Christ, but this might not be clear on first reading. For example, who is speaking, who is hearing and viewing in Revelation 22:6–8? The angel is not coming, but Jesus is coming quickly and without delay as is shown in Revelation 2:5, 2:16, 3:11, 22:12, 20 (as well as 1:1 and 22:7 where the same Greek word meaning “quickly” is used). The rest of Revelation 22:8 and the next verse helps: “And I John saw these things, and heard them. And when I had heard and seen, I fell down to worship before the feet of the angel which showed me these things. Then said he [the angel] unto me, ‘See you do it not: for I am your fellowservant, and of thy brethren the prophets, and of them which keep the sayings of this book: worship God.’” • Revelation 22:8–9 If Jesus were the angel, John would not have been denied worship of Him. John knew Jesus. He grew up in his neighborhood. He lived in very close contact with Jesus for at least 2½ years with the other disciples. Jesus appeared to Thomas and the other apostles after the resurrection. In John 20:28, when John was present, Thomas exclaimed when Jesus appeared, “My Lord and my God!” Thomas was not rebuked or corrected for that expression of joy. But in Revelation 22:8–9, the angel was not Jesus. He was not worthy of worship and he corrected John. Finally, Revelation 22:16 shows that there is a distinction between the Jesus Christ and the angel, that they are different personalities. Strongest Evidence The passage that completely denies Jesus was an angel of any kind is found in Hebrews chapter 1. This analysis is unique: “Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high; Being made so much better than the angels, as he hath by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they. For unto which of the angels said he at any time, [1] ‘You are my Son, this day have I begotten thee’? [2] And again, ‘I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son’? [3] And again, when he brings in the firstbegotten into the world, he says, ‘And let all the angels of God worship him.’ And of the angels he says, ‘Who makes his angels spirits, and his ministers a flame of fire.’ But unto the Son he says, Your throne, O God, is for ever and ever [literally, the age of the age or the greatest age]: a scepter of righteousness is the scepter of thy kingdom.” • Hebrews 1:3–8 Three times Paul cites Old Testament references that distinguish Jesus Christ from angels: [1] Psalm 2:7; [2] 2 Samuel 7:14, 1 Chronicles 17:13, 22:10, 28:6; and [3] Psalm 97:7. The passage that says, “But unto the Son ...” is directly from Psalm 45:6-7. Jesus is described as the Son of God in Revelation 2:18, “And unto the angel of the church in Thyatira write; These things saith the Son of God ...” In other words three direct proofs, and more, are given that Jesus was not and could not be an angel, but that he was a son. Note also that all the angels are to worship Him. As far as I have found, this unique and obvious understanding of these verses in Hebrews chapter 1 is unique to Dr. Martin and no one has followed up on the implications to other passages in the Bible in the correct manner like he has done. See the articles “How God Uses Angels to Govern the Universe,” “Do You Have a Guardian Angel?,” and “The Philosophy of Christianity.” And there are other articles on the ASK Website that deal obliquely with this subject. The Chief Messenger Is not Jesus as Lord described as an archangel in Thessalonians? No, he is not. “For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first.” • 1 Thessalonians 4:16 The Lord is described as shouting with the voice of an archangel; the text does not say that he is an archangel. If Jesus is an archangel from this passage, then He must also be a trumpet from the same usage in that verse. By the way, did you ever notice that Paul received the Gospel through the “revelation of Jesus Christ” (Galatians 1:12)? John received the “revelation of Jesus Christ” (Revelation 1:1). Conclusion If a person considers the Bible to be a slap-together collection of documents then one could begin to think in terms of such contradictions. But if a person looks upon the Bible as a carefully and divinely planned, produced and protected composition as a whole, then one can see elements of the design throughout. One of the best presentations of that design is in Dr. Martin’s Restoring the Original Bible (Portland, OR: ASK, 1994). In this book Dr. Martin discusses at length the probable double-revealing of the book of Revelation to the apostle John. It is a remarkable story, every bit as remarkable as the design and development of the Holy Scriptures themselves. You will find more about the Bible from that one book than you ever thought possible. David Sielaff david@askelm.com |
But the truth is that our several pastorpreneurs out there are not relenting on entrenching the tithe lie. It's just too lucrative for them to give it up even when it has been proven beyond any iota of doubt that the tithe doctrine as it is preached and practiced today has no sound basis in true Christianity.
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