₦airaland Forum

ThatWriterBoy:
- I believe the future Antichrist will be Muslim.

Can we discuss this please?

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I believe all antichrists are those who do not love their neighbours and their enemies moreso. They will say "Lord, Lord" but will be teeth gnashers.

shadeyinka:
It's impossible to convince you.

The experience is Taylor made and subjective.

Seek the Lord when He may be found, call Him when He's near is a personal thing.

Let me try to explain:
If you've never had a dream while sleeping, how can you understand when I tell you that I ate dinner with Joe Biden at the White House in my dream. You will be looking for that elusive seed of intellegence to comprehend how me who didn't leave my house in Abuja could eat with Joe Biden!

If you don't call my experience craziness, you'll say it's none existent. I can understand if you can't understand.

Even if I've never dreamed you would hardly be telling me you were full and have no need to eat after eating dinner with Biden anywhere now would you, and you would not expect me to believe you who didn't leave your house in Abuja ended up in the White House. That said, there are many who believe such stuff and that their pastor raised the dead etc, just that buda is insufficiently gullible and says, show me.

Please see the following threads for the sort of people who might agree with you, and let me know if I overestimated your intelligence.

https://www.nairaland.com/5981755/us-politics-today

https://www.nairaland.com/6236938/joe-biden-not-president

https://www.nairaland.com/5458081/been-lied-earth-flat-not

shadeyinka:
Whenever you call someone a gnostic atheist or an agnostic atheist does it cause any confusion?
Do you have to go to the term "agnostic Christians" of the first century Christians?

I don't think I can take you seriously when you make up your own definitions after the fact, a point I illustrated with the random arrangement of letters below.

budaatum:
As in, if I ragrnae lstetr yb ggljuing eyht lwoud eamn thimgsone ot oyu in English, French or Dutch language?

Perhaps tell me your definitions of 'gnostic atheist', 'agnostic atheist' and "agnostic Christians" of any century, and their relevance to the topic at hand, then we might have a basis for discourse if that interests you.

shadeyinka:
Na!!!

When you know, you know!
It's not sold in the market!

I am not surprised at you and Honestly, I can understand if you don't understand!

Yeah. That's what they say just before begging for their daily bread.

I do understand Shade, and I disagree with you. There is no amount of time for what you say here to make any sense unless you seed intelligence behind it.

shadeyinka:
I use the word gnostic not as in gnosticism as practiced by the early "gnostic Christians"! But as one who knows His God rather than one who just believes!

So, you are simply making up meanings for words that already have meanings and expect, given an infinite amount of time, that intelligence will result out of your meaninglessness?

I wonder what the probability of that is but I guess we'll have to wait an infinite amount of time to find out.

shadeyinka:
What is the probability given

1. Infinite sets of 30 Alphabets, symbols and punctuation Characters
2. A means of throwing/juggling them
3. Infinite amount of time to repeat the above that

1. Intelligence can result
By intellegence I mean Logic acting on data and producing results consistent with the logic.
Or
2. A meaningful book can result


Some professors are of the opinion that given enough time, without any seed of intellegence behind it, a computer can write a love letter or a chemistry textbook!

And I agree with them!

ono:
Darkness and light are incompatible. The rule of darkness will only last a very short time. Mark my words, Truth will prevail over evil. This Biden evil regime is doomed for failure of epic proportion. We have already started witnessing it. It's coming down!

I happen to think 4 years is a very short time and Biden's truth appears to have cut short trumps darkness, but I guess as far as you are concerned trump is the current President of the United States of America, you poor sod.

shadeyinka:
Why not Him?
Should I have used Her?

God isn't biologically male, but because He relates to us as a Father, we use the masculine pronoun for Him.

I know not just because of the Bible which of cause is a guide. I know because I have my subjective experiences of Him. This knowledge produces Faith (active trust in a personality).

I know Him. It will be untrue for me to say anything contrary to this!

You make it sound like God appeared to you as a man when the truth is you are simply parroting what you've been told to believe.

You would be advised to stop telling lies to yourself and seek knowledge instead.

shadeyinka:
You have no evidence for the authors of the bible making a speculation about the events they write about. No one ever accuses Shakespeare or Plato or any of the Greek philosophers and writers of speculation: why pick out the authors of the bible.

Really? So the authors of Genesis 1 were witnesses to what they wrote about, in your own opinion? I wonder if you believe everything you read or if it just applies to what you read in this one book.

For your information, those who reason and know their Shakespeare and Plato and all of the Greek philosophers know they were were speculating, and that understanding has empowered us to speculate too instead of making out our opinions are facts and the truth. If you read enough you too will know this.

shadeyinka:
I have not used the word "believe" . I have used the word/phrase "know Him". Knowledge is gnostic, believe isnt

You may have claimed to know, but just like Ihe, you merely believe what you've read in one single book. If you know, you would not have used the word "Him", especially if you were a gnostic.

You sure underestimated we left. I can't believe you thought we'd sit by and let trump and yourselves undermine democracy and steal the Presidency.

ono:
There you go guys! Very long one - but worth the read. Please note how far the DemonRats can go to subvert democracy!

https://time.com/5936036/secret-2020-election-campaign/?utm_source=twitter&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=editorial&utm_term=politics_2020-election&linkId=110717147

shadeyinka:
But, he is mainly bothered by my gnostic state of mind

You cannot have a gnostic state of mind and believe at the same time, Shade. What is bothering is you think you can.

shadeyinka:
Science did tell us that everything in the universe used to be a singleton (infinitesimally small but infinity dense) which suddenly expanded/inflated 14.6billion years ago. Interestingly, it is consistent with Genesis. " In the beginning (from nothing) appeared through God the universe. The bible isn't a scientific book hence, it didn't explain how.

Unfortunately, I am speaking from a gnostic position based on my subjective experience of God and the little scientific knowledge I have.

An atheist have no basis of gnosticism except through an outright rejection of God. We have probably the same physical and logical data but different conclusions: the difference is this subjective experience!!

I think your knowledge of atheism is the same as your knowledge of the existence of the universe, but that is beside the point because you are showing that your knowledge, or rather, understanding of your Bible is equally deficient.

To start with, Science did not tell you "that everything in the universe used to be a singleton (infinitesimally small but infinity dense) which suddenly expanded/inflated 14.6billion years ago". Scientists merely speculated just as the authors of the book you believe also did, and intelligence should make you ask what they both mean.

Secondly, Bible reading, or rather, understanding, should make one evolve from committing the error of "thank you Lord that one is not like that atheist over there", but I guess evolution is difficult for believers.

shadeyinka:
Honestly, scientifically and logically I have concluded that
1. The universe had a beginning
2. The universe will end
3. If the Universe had always existed,then it will always be (a constant)
4. But since the Universe will not exist indefinitely, The universe must therefore be initiated by Something/Someone outside the universe.

I call that Something/Someone the UNCAUSED FIRST CAUSE of everything: aka God.

From the Spiritual Perspective,
1. I was taught of the idea of the existence of God
2. As I grew up, I got to logically comprehend the Christian faith and have God a trial in my life
3. This resulted in my own subjective experiences of God in my life so that I can say truely that "I know Him and relate with Him".
4. This knowledge and experience of God gave meaning to life and existence. Everything visible and invisible was created not because of man but because of Himself(like a garden)


Everybody (at adulthood) must come to a point of either logically and emotionally accepting or rejecting the possibility of a higher force in charge of man. This is why many will manufacture how they think the supreme being should look like.

This is my honest opinion.

And to be honest, you are free to have an opinion, and as long as you do no harm with your opinion, as in, to the Glory of God, why should I or anyone be overly concerned? However, things get murky when one starts claiming one's opinion must be everyone else's opinion especially when no evidence is provided for such opinions.

Anyway, my opinion is, no one knows if and when the universe began or whether it will end. In fact, just thinking about its supposed end should make one wonder if that means the entire universe would disappear in a puff of smoke or something and all the planets and stars and mountains and seas and living things will just not exist anymore. If there's a God doing that its a silly God, creating all that exists for billions of years just to annihilate it one day. Sensible beings should endeavour to oppose such a God with all their might and being, while stupid evil people would be working day and night for such a destructive God.

As to your spiritual perspective, I would suggest you continue to learn instead of manufactur[ing] how you think the supreme being should look like, because the Christian Supreme Being you were taught about does not exactly like you manufacturing graven images for a very good reason.

Ihedinobi3:
But I do know what the mechanism is, buda. Simply reading the Bible shows me what the mechanism is.

Fact is, no one knows what I know or don't know.

Humans who live by one book alone will become malnourished. Matthew 4:4

Its probably why the Bible does not waste much time on the mechanism of universe formation but on what one must do about one's enemies and neighbours. Matthew 25:40

shadeyinka:
You get me wrong.

I didn't say entropy (measure of disorderliness of a system) is reducing: It is actually increasing. (All stars are dying, the Universe is expanding etc)
However just immediately after the big bang/inflation entropy somehow miraculously began to reduce and order began to form from disorder.

In layman's term, an EXPLOSION created all the order we are seeing in the Universe. I ask how?

Who told you an explosion created all the order we are seeing in the universe? On the flip side, is it impossible to conceive that when God is written to have said, "Let there be Light", there was a big bang of light?

Fact is, you want to argue your beliefs against the beliefs of others without recognising both sides are ignorant and neither of you actually know.

Ihedinobi3:
You assume that I don't know what that mechanism is, buda. You do not actually know that I don't.

But I do know that you do not know, ihe. Simply reading what you believe shows that you do not know even though you would claim your beliefs are knowledge which they are not.

Fact is, no one knows how the universe came into being billions of years ago.

LordReed:
I think he just harvested some straw and was eager to make something of it.

We must remember the lessons we learnt. Trump will be President on March 4.

Ihedinobi3:
My point is that as long as there is a mechanism by which outcomes result, the notion that there is no intelligent, personal creator is demonstrably false.

You assume what that mechanism is, Ihe. You do not actually know what it is.

shadeyinka:
The subject was GOD!
Who CREATED/MADE/FORMED the Universe.

Depends how honest you wish to be. Fact is you don't know if the universe was created or just is. It's like you look at a river and cannot imagine its course was determined by the natural forces that carved it into being, which is what you should call a creator, if anything, if you must athromorphise.

Basically, the poverty of human thought makes one create a creator because it can not reason otherwise.

shadeyinka:
My problem with this evolution of the solar system (even though I was describing evolution of living things) is that somehow, ENTROPY just seem to be reducing immediately after the big bang/inflation of the universe.

I have the feeling that you think randomly peppering with big words gives meaning to what you write even though it does not. Take Entropy. You claim it seems to be reducing but I bet you can not provide evidence for its reduction.

I am afraid non-comprehende. But I expect you'd blame me instead of the meaninglessness of your random use of words.

shadeyinka:
You quoted Genesis!

In the beginning, GOD created the heavens and the earth!

Yes I quoted Genesis, or rather, what some smart individual(s) wrote in the Book of Genesis. It describes a chaos out of which order arose, and is a indication of evolution.

shadeyinka:
And that is because there is an INTELLIGENCE behind it to make it happen.

What is this "INTELLIGENCE" you refer to?

shadeyinka:
Evolution is a late description where life has already been formed only that it increased in complexity through survival of the fittest.

The situation of evolution is like having instead of basic characters, you are given whole words and phrases to juggle about.

Evolution is nothing like you seem to understand it to be.

Consider the following.

shadeyinka:
Simple!
Can order come out of chaos?

The answer is yes. It was observed to be so and was described in Genesis 1 and in most creation myths, and it is observant in actuality as evolution.

shadeyinka:
The description wouldn't be evolution except you start the story from the point of the big bang/inflation. Then the real statistics will be glaring

It is Ihe who tied it to evolution to which you seemed to agree. I think you are just talking randomly and I do not know what you mean.

shadeyinka:
It will be a tall order first to decode the language of instruction for it would take an intellegence to understand what was created

Secondly, you will have to decode the purpose and the intent of the random characters for a purposeless array of characters would be meaningless. Is it possible to have a message without a background intent?

Thirdly, you need to know the rules on which such communication is based on without which order and coherence will be absent.

Of course, you'll have to decode the message.

You would have noted all the above by the first responses your thread received.

LordReed:
Your point being?

Ihedinobi3:
I'm afraid I don't understand. What would be the means if there is no intelligence behind the whole thing?

And to be honest, I still do not get your point.

shadeyinka:
What you've written sounds Congolese!
But I am sure it is meaningless
LOL!!

Happy new year long time.

It's not congolese but gibberish, albeit an arrangement of letters in meaningful English words. It is what you described too, but is not a description of evolution which Ihe is tying it to and claiming is illogical.

LordReed:
Ah well good luck with your strawman.

I think they think evolution is some random arrangement, lol.

shadeyinka:
I think the challenge can be made simpler.

Let's garther ALL the alphabets, punctuation marks and symbols used in the make of a large book: say 869,000 characters. If we are to throw them on large papers infinite numbers of time: could an intelligent paragraph or a short story compile itself?

No, since no intelligence nor rules would have been involved in their arrangement.

But if you disagree, just randomly arrange the few letters you used in your's quoted above and tell what meaning what you come up with would have.

shadeyinka:
Let's just imagine that the juggling is possible. Wouldn't it produce a meaningful paragraph of English, French or Dutch language?

As in, if I ragrnae lstetr yb ggljuing eyht lwoud eamn thimgsone ot oyu in English, French or Dutch language?

I wonder.

Kobojunkie:
So the God who told you that He is the same always- He never changes - lied?

God never told me anything, junkie. I did read the book though and understand God changed, or evolved, as I like to see it. But I understand if you don't. It's a big book, and people understand differently.

Kobojunkie:
I believe in God... I believe the Spirit of God is of God and I believe Jesus Christ is God's human Avatar. I dont believe that in anyway suggests that God changes His ways or His mind.

Merry Xmas to you too.

So do demons.

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I just never found the need to emulate them and find understanding to be far more superior. It's what Christ did, understand instead of merely believe, or he would have just been another Pharisee or Sadduccee who believed so much they forgot to love their fellow human beings.

Happy New Year.

DCatt:
I just saw your comment now when I went through my post, it's also the first one but for some reason it didn't show in my mentions

Anyway, it's not for me, it's just an idea for people who are in betting business. I feel it's the best time to make liberals pay owo mugu since they believe Biden is the president now when he will NEVER be.

So, how many of you took dcatt advise, or did you work out he was magaing you?


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