₦airaland Forum

@Louis007

Dont worry cos this too shall pass.like someone said earlier,see life as a marathon not a sprint.stop focusing on your mates who have made it cos life isn't a competition.keep your focus and make up your mind to succeed and you shall.dont be ashamed to ask for help from your friends or associates.however avoid begging for money....instead ask for opprotunities.nobody likes a beggar.

Pls I'm a christian and i will advice you not to start looking for prophets or MOG's.many wolves abound and they're waiting to entrap someone.you have a direct line to God too so pray to him.the bible says the hands of the diligent maketh rich which is why even non Christians make it big as long as they are focused,its not a function of how hard you pray or fast.i can talk like this because i was at your position once upon a time but thank God it's history now.i can assure you it'll surely pass if you make up your mind to fight.

i wish you all the best as you resolve to dust yourself up and always remember....there is light at the end of this tunnel.

God bless you

Heavenly102: Solomon was rich, why can't my Pastor be rich also?

Just like an atheist(Logicboy03) answered you above.Your pastor shouldn't forget that in addition to 700 wives,he's at liberty to take 300 concubines also.

what is wrong with us christians that we have become the champions of the decadent trait of CONSPICUOUS CONSUMPTION? must you have everything? do you need everything? Every living thing in nigeria knows this is at the heart of our corruption problem and it's sad that so called children of God are the promoters.

You know,i have a cousin who is a very senior police officer.He is an epitome of honesty,selflessness,contentment and morals that you dont find readily in our police force.infact i started staying with him in our BQ because my parents believed he would be a good influence on me.

They almost had cardiac arrest when they learnt he was a confirmed member of Eckanker.in their prejudice,they were shocked to learn that a non christian had a better manner of living than plenty 'brothers' and 'sisters' in the lord around us.

My dear brother in christ, your pastor's jet wont draw people to our Christ, your life which mirrors Jesus Christ is what will do the job.

God bless you

Beautiful piece!!!

This i believe is one of the absolutes in scripture.

Thanks for sharing

MostHigh: looks like this is a sensitive topic

Is there no one willing enough to take the bait?

Dont get ahead of yourself.This your write up makes little sense which explains the low traffic.

Are you evangelizing for Judaism or what?

I personally am willing to learn more about the bible but all you've written so far does not hold any promise in this regard.

Dear brother,pls do more.peradventure you might enlighten us

God bless you

Joagbaje: It's amazing the way many Christians exercise faith for mundane things. I wonder why their faith is not exercised like that for SOUL-WINNING . Why can't a man who is shy to preach in a bus begin to make confessions of faith and declare. " I have boldness to preach " but rather its on phones and plasma 3d television!

Welcome to the world of CONSPICUOUS CONSUMPTION so rampant in Charismatic Christianity which most of us are part of.We must realize how ephemeral 'things' really are.

Christ said ''....take heed, and beware of covetousness:for a man's life consisteth not in the abundance of the things which he possesseth.''(luke 12:15).Also John the beloved admonished us in 1john 2:15 thus ''love not the world,neither the things that are in the world.if any man love the world,the love of the father is not in him''

The craving for things deny a lot of people of their peace of mind.This is what all humans irrespective of religion know but their seems to be no let up in the craze.Contentment is great treasure if only humanity can stop and think.

Logicboy03: I'm an atheist but God bless you.

Modesty,contentment and reason-ability have no religion so i applaud wherever i find them.

Atheist or not,God bless you too my brother

Heavenly102: Jesus might not have been mega rich but if ever he needed anything he would get it if he needed money he would get it from the mouths of fishes, poverty comes when one is not able to get what he wants, Jesus truly was not poor cause he got everything he wanted when He wanted it.

Exactly the point.If Jesus had a need,it was met promptly.He didn't need to store up in a massive warehouse or a bank.Whether from the mouth of a fish or the lunch of a boy,his needs and that of countless others with him were met.The bible said blessed be God almighty who daily loadeth us with benefits.No one said a preacher shouldn't have the good things of life,but struggling to match Dangote naira for naira just for the kicks is not a way to let your life so shine before men that they'll see your good works and glorify your father who is in heaven.Dangote is in business to make money and money alone.Are MOG's saying they have the same mandate as Dangote?

Even atheists who we say are Godless know how fleeting and vain riches are.It's sad we children of the kingdom can't see this life beyond our bank balances or the designer suits in our closets.

We really need a reminder of why christ came.

wordthots: @ image 123 guess ur right

@ candour thanks, great stuff bro

Back then I was made to believe that the manifestations on earth was goin to happen before the rapture. Manifesting at the workplace, manifesting in ur neighbourhood, manifesting with wealth n all that (that's what I meant by future manifestations on earth) until I read the scripture properly about 2years ago and realized it was talking about redemption from our vile bodies (the rapture and the reign on earth).

you are welcome brother.

I read a book by a prominent nigerian MOG propagating the same thing and i swallowed it hook,line and sinker as it promised mega riches and powers.However when i started studying the bible on my own,the whole doctrine of christians TAKING OVER THE WORLD through miraculous manifestations came tumbling down.i finally stumbled on JOEL'S ARMY THEOLOGY and DOMINION THEOLOGY on the internet and this made me understand the focus of our MOG's on building visible business and religious empires.They truly believe they're conquering the world physically for Christ.We truly need a reminder of why Christ came.

wordthots: As a young christian I remember having favorite preachers. For quite a number of years the interpretation I gave to certain scriptures was the same my "Favorite preachers" gave to them. Back then whatever my "favorite preachers" said was right and at some point I even preached whatever they said word for word (without referring back to the Word).

As the years passed by I started questioning some of these interpretations and I Iearnt to wait on the Holy spirit to reveal the right interpretations. I'm still doing study around some of these questions though but I just thot to share them.

I believe revelational knowledge is progressive and I think its very important for believers to always check the word for themselves regardless (doesn't matter who said it).

I didn't put this up to discredit anyone or ministry, this is js an avenue for a honest discussion, where we can all learn the truth.

These are some of the questions I asked myself

Is Romans 8:19-24 talking about some future manifestations of saints on earth or the rapture?


Thanks

These are questions that had always pushed me to study my bible more and though I've learnt a lot in the process,i am still a bible student exploring the unsearchable riches of Christ.I'll attempt the highlighted while i leave other brethren to attend to others.Also i will not put all the contents of the verses here for brevity sake.try and pick up your bible and read through.

I'll start from 2 verses before @verse 17.
Rom 8:17 says if we suffer with him,we'll be glorified together.Now verse 18 talks about a future glory to be revealed in us and which is greater than any suffering of the present time(see also 2cor4:17-18).Coming to verse 19 which says

''For the earnest expectation of the creature(ie all God's creation,humans,animals,plants in short all living things) waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God''.Verse 20 tells us why all living things are waiting

''For the creature(God's creation;all living things) was made subject to vanity,not willingly,but by reason of him who had subjected the same in hope'' how were they made subject to vanity we ask? Gen 3:19c answers

''.....for dust thou(Adam who was head of all living things on earth) art and unto dust shalt thou return''The vanity talked about is death which came through Adam.We all know the story of the fall.nothing lives for ever on this earth.every living thing owes the debt of physical death but there will be a deliverance from this curse as verse 21 shows

''Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption(susceptibility to pain,sickness,old age,misery and of course death)into the glorious liberty of the children of God''.The glorious liberty is the freedom from the failings associated with the human body housing our soul and spirit.

Phil 3:21 tells us our vile body will be changed to become like Christ's glorious body and that is the body that will go in the rapture of the church and the coming kingdom of God on earth.in Romans 8:23,the end part reads thus ''.....waiting for the adoption,to wit,the redemption of our body which reiterates the changing of our vile body which is subject to the elements of this world into a body like Christ's.see also Eph 1:13-14.

So I'll say its talking about both manifestations and rapture.

i sincerely hope I'm not derailing the thread.

God bless us all

wordthots: I have a sincere question to ask candour,frosbel,stryklimi n everyoda person who has placed a post on this thread.

what's the reason behind restitution?
Is it to justify us before God or to justify us before man?

I think the answer to ds question would point us in the right direction.

Nothing justifies you before the almighty God except the atoning blood of Christ.we are admonished to live peaceably with, not justify ourselves before men.

MostHigh: In response to candour please read math 5 with emphasis on verse 17-19 these are the words of christ
1. The whole sermon on the mount (math 5-7) is pure law (deutronomy) repeated for your benefit Yashua son of joseph quoted from deutronomy more than any other book in the torah.
2. The future kingdom of christ will be based on this same constitution (Law)
3. With the change of the priesthood came the change in the accepted sacrifice which in the spirit of christ should be yourself (selfsacrifice)Heb 7:12 ceremonial law. What happens to the moral and civil guidance in the kingdom age do you plan to write your own law?
4. Yashua son of joseph fufilled the law to the letter john 8:46, just so you could do the same as a desciple and not come 2000yrs later and say there is no need?
5.When James was saked to give a final settlement to the question of fufilling torah law as regarding the gentiles acts 15: 19-20 the book of deutronomy (book of the law) was still his reference (abstain from things strangled,from blood,from fornication and pollutions of idols) why are you trying to fufill otherwise
6. From within the 613 instances of though shalt not and thou shalt within the old testament which one you wan remove or keep. Is this what Yashua ben joseph has taught you presonally or what the the devil is trying to push on the world.
7.Paul speaks of the lawless man in 2nd thess chapter 2 what makes him lawless what laws has he abandond still knowing the truth.The debate between “law versus grace,” is actually a debate between “law versus lawlessness. Are you a lawless man?

Finally please endevour to quote christ on this issue as much as possible if he is truly your master.

Peace and love!

Christ said he came to fulfill the law and he did exactly dead by shedding his blood on the cross of Calvary with the proclamation ''it is finished'' John 19:30.Gal 3:13-14 re-echoes it ''Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us:for it is written, cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:That the blessing of Abraham might come on the gentiles through Jesus Christ;that we might receive the promise through faith''.

responding to your post point by point

1.You are right he quoted from the torah and I'm happy you used his Hebrew name because until he went to the cross,shed his blood and resurrected, Jesus Christ could not be an object of faith for your salvation(as a gentile) as in Eph 2:11-13.on the mount,he was addressing people(Jews) who had lived all their lives under the reading of the law of Moses so they clearly understood him.
2.i agree with your assertion here until then,there is no temple in Jerusalem to handle the full complement of the law.i am also happy u called it constitution because the law given to Moses was in reality a constitution for the Jews(Deut 12:1) much like the Nigerian constitution and totally inapplicable to a roman for example.
3.why not wait till the kingdom age before bringing back the law? where are the levites to handle the temple services?
4.i didn't see any connection in john 8:46.If you too have to fulfill the law,pls dont cherry pick.read Luke 2:22-24 and ensure your wife or sister does likewise.
5.James & co wrote a letter to the gentiles.here is the crux of it in Acts 15:28-29 ''For it seemed good to the holy Ghost and to us to lay upon you NO GREATER BURDEN THAN THESE NECESSARY THINGS:That ye abstain from meats offered to idols,and from blood,and from things strangled and from fornication:from which if ye keep yourselves,ye shall do well'' .nothing more.
6.Dear brother, if you are not a sabatharian, the law says i should stone you to death(exodus 31:15), what do you think? it also says when you have a son,your wife should take 2 turtle doves or pigeons when she's ready to dedicate a man child to the temple,do you do this in your church?
7.I disagree on this point with you dear Brother.the debate between law and grace is a debate between hagar & sarah,its a debate between ishmael and isaac,a debate between moses and Jesus,It's a debate between bondage and Liberty in Christ which does not permit us to sin.Gal 5:13-14.YOU CAN NEVER BE SAVED BY THE LAW.with temple destruction by Gen Titus in AD70,the heart was ripped out of judaism hence even for the Jew salvation by the law is IMPOSSIBLE.

read Matt 22:37-40 and see what Christ said so you wont accuse me of not quoting Christ enough.

its a learning process and your points made me stumble on some verses I'd not seen before,for this i say thanks.
i guess i'm derailing the thread, pls my apologies to all especially Bro Goshen the OP.

God bless you

[quote author=striktlymi]Dear Brother, you and i can't legislate righteousness.Christians are not subject to the laws of Moses not because of good reasons but simply because ''Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth'' Rom 10:4.we can't start cherry picking some laws and leaving some with ''good reasons'' because i can easily direct you to the curse placed in Deut 27:26 for those who do so.Rom 15:4 tells us why we should study the Pentateuch and other books of the old testament.For instance if you are not a sabatharian, you're in direct contravention of Exodus 20:8-11,Exodus 23:12 and exodus 31:15 in fact with penalty of death.According to Menachem Begin(an Israeli leader of their fight for nationhood),a jew is a person who abides by the 613 laws contained in the torah.he said this in 1947 i think.Brother you can't keep it all i tell u.just read from Deut chapter 12 to chapter 27 for a summary and you'll understand why Apostle Peter called it bondage in Acts 15:10

If the Spirit directs a christian to do restitution no matter how injurious then by all means go ahead.this is because ''it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure''Phil 2:13 and his leading will surely not lead to chaos.A denomination shouldn't make life a living hell for members because a G.O had the leading to do a major restitution.It becomes a case of you're not spiritual that's why u can't do it like me,fast like me,pray like me and give like me.Let God who works in us all lead them pls.

If the killing of Stephen is what made Christ tell Paul he'll suffer for his name,then what Sin did Stephen himself commit to be killed by Saul and his fellow zealots? bringing the gospel to the gentiles was going to be costly and dangerous and that is the truth Christ revealed to Paul.My bible appendix contains the graphic accounts of how the 12 apostles were martyred except John the beloved.I'm sure you agree this can't be some restitution agenda.

Pls let us allow God to lead us by his Spirit.

I might have left out some points i do not like to monopolize the space and that's why i also did not type out the contents of some references.

God bless us all

frosbel: As the Spirit leads indeed, but we cannot hold unto stolen property and refuse to return them or we cannot owe debts and refuse to pay back or we cannot defraud someone and refuse to make it right.

Getting these things right is actually part and parcel of our testimony , that could potentially attract them to Jesus Christ.

@frosbel, i didn't want to take up space with expatiating my point but you got the gist.If the spirit directs you to do it,you might even win a soul in the process because returning stolen goods to the owner who isn't a christian would sure make him want to hear what came over you in the process learning about the work done on the cross.However destroying the lives of 5 children because their mom had to leave their father after 20 years of marriage by the leading of their pastor is very cruel i think.Like you mentioned your own experience,i've seen it happen and bros,it wasn't nice.

@Bella3, pls don't instigate thread closure lest you be tagged a dictator

Goshen360: ^ Okay. Honestly I don't really know how to start this particular teaching/topic but it has been on my mind for a while so I decided to make it open and participatory. Okay. Let me start with a scripture from the Gospel.

New International Version (©1984)
But Zacchaeus stood up and said to the Lord, "Look, Lord! Here and now I give half of my possessions to the poor, and if I have cheated anybody out of anything, I will pay back four times the amount." Jesus said to him, "Today salvation has come to this house, because this man, too, is a son of Abraham. For the Son of Man came to seek and to save what was lost." - Luke 19:8-10

This is one of the scriptures used by those who teach restitution for Christians. What say ye of this scriptures?

If we examine the verse quoted above,you'll notice he wasn't prompted by the lord but he willingly activated the law of Moses because he was a Jew keeping the law of Moses.Jesus said salvation is come to this house because this man was a son of Abraham not because of the restitution which he did.

Acts 15 talks about the Jerusalem council.i wont quote all the verses here,pls read up the entire chapter yourself but see verse 10 which goes thus ''Now therefore why tempt ye God,to put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples,which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear?'' this was in response to the requirement that gentile Christians which includes you and i, must observe all the laws in the torah.If Apostle Peter called the law a yoke why pick out a part of it(ignoring other equally important parts) and ask Christians to observe it or be damned? Let the spirit of God lead us as Romans 8:14 shows.

I ask honestly for someone to show me a verse expressly where Christ asked for it to be done or even a place in the all the new testament where it was raised.

We should really allow the Spirit to lead us.That is the only way we can enjoy the liberty for which Jesus died and resurrected.

God bless us all

@Bidam and @wordthots,you are welcome.

we can discuss any day you choose. Just let me know.u are older on this site so i'll follow ur lead.

till then,God bless u richly

[quote author=frosbel]@Candour

It is important to expose these false prophets for the following reasons :

1. This is a media tool that can be used to reach a sizable portion of Christians who in turn can reach others, and by multiplication reach larger numbers than individual effort on a physical basis.

2. I have met a sizable number of disillusioned Christians who have been let down by the institutions they once trusted and are now utterly confused , including family members.

3. Some of us are victims of this system and almost had our faith derailed by the falsehoods they preached.

4. New convert in Christ MUST be pointed back to Christ and not to MEN who have ruined the faith of thousands.

5. To keep quiet on these critical matters is almost becoming complicit in the deception.

6. It is a duty and our duty for that matter , to rescue not only ourselves , but those who are tinkering with false prophesies, visions and dreams , using such to form the foundation of their faith and not the word of GOD

[b]7. To preach 5% lies and 95% truth is even more dangerous than preaching 100% LIE.
[/b]
8. Atheists and those of other or no faith , previously had the impression that all Christians believed in this madness, many were once Christian and left because of the increased lies been told in the name of Christ.


@frosbel, i see your point particularly about point 7 above but i just think we should be careful not to uproot the tender wheat plants when our aim is to eliminate the tares.

God bless you brother

Bidam: @ the emboldened freewill and subject to debate.

you're right dear brother.its a conviction i arrived at based on my own study of the bible.i won't impose it on you.we could have a discussion(not argument) on it at a time convenient for both of us.

till then pray God keeps and bless u richly

@wordthots, i loved all your mature and sincere write ups.

I must confess when God first opened my eyes to the bondage i was under in the WOF movement.i was livid with rage and started enjoying forums where the MOG's of these ministries were bashed verbally of course continually.It was thrilling to show off my knowledge of the bible but the truth is i too had started serving myself and not God.most times when we engage in these discussions,we're more keen to show how biblically aware we are than to help Christians discover the truth and this makes us no different than the MOG's we castigate.

@frosbel,i have always been a fan of your threads since i discovered the tithe and seed faith fraud before i registered on nairaland but lately,i honestly feel you're doing damage to the body of Christ.You can still pass the message across without the know it all posture.I don't agree with a lot of the things joagbaje expounds on nairaland but i can't fault his respectful manner of approach.pls the aim should be getting christians to know the truth,not bringing down a 'MOG'.The lies we see in Christendom are thing we should weep over not gloat.

I will never defend a denomination or MOG because there are no titles like that in the kingdom of God according to the bible.

God bless us all.

It's sad seeing people being led astray and you can't do anything about it.i was there before too but i had to tell myself the truth.the truth being that i was desperately in need of a breakthrough and then just wanting everything my eyes could see that i could have accepted from satan himself if he had showed up.i saw myself for what i was:greedy and covetous and that wasn't the new creature Jesus died for me to be.

The prosperity message can fit any mould.infact i had a muslim lecturer who told me he always attends a popular church on oregun road because the MOG is sound on business and motivational principles.


When i discovered the tithe and seed faith fraud for what they were,i got so angry that i thought of destroying these institutions in anyway i could but i realised i might also destroy the faith of fragile believers in the process.So i rather focus on getting the truth of the gospel to every one i come across rather than focus on the 'MOG's and this thread shows people are getting the truth.

God will help us.

I'm new to nairaland and must confess this is one of the most matured thread i've ever come across.Pls let's keep it this way.kudos to Mr Anony for this idea.

I was born into a religious home and my family moved into the 'strict holiness' arena when i was 9(TV left our house when i was 12)I got born again when i was 12 and was really serious with the lord but i was really bothered thinking all the good Christians i knew but who wore jewelries permed their hair would go to hell according to my church doctrine.it just didn't seem right to me.Then after 9 years there, dear mum took the family into the witchcraft and principality killing zone and i started killing demons everyday but i was wondering how long it took them to die.infact it led to serious frustration and sadness for me as i was thrown into a state of paranoia with fear of sleeping and dreaming bad drems etc.meanwhile my Dad stayed put in the holiness zone.

Then i got into University and forgot about church except when i go back home on holidays.i still pretended interest anyway to keep the peace.When i graduated,i decided to go back to God since i figured I'll need his help in getting on in life.i signed up again in the demon killing zone,got a good job,got married and was seemingly at ease until a tragedy in 2010 made me do a rethink.why should a faithful tither,seed sower and good christian who always fasted and kill demons go through such.Then a month after my own personal tragedy, a nice brother who was head of our prayer warrior team died of kidney or liver disease(of course at the time,we attributed it to the powers of his father's house) and i was totally disillusioned.

I found my way into the Faith and positive confession system and signed up for one of the most visible denominations.i started flowing seriously in it and got my tragedy reversed and all seemed to be going well for about a year.However i was bothered by the greed i saw in the name of faith.i was bothered about the sheer arrogance on display in the name of the lord's anointed and i was like,could this be what Jesus suffered on the cross and died for.Then the sheer idolatry in the name of honour to the MOG really rankled.I kept silent so as not to 'offend' God until a discussion on the GRACE OF GOD with my friend's mother had me sit down and really decide to study the bible and not just digest and parrot what our overall MOG and other pastors said.I discovered i was saved by grace and not by adherence to the law of moses.i discovered my salvation by grace coupled with the love of God shed abroad in my heart enabled me to live a life of good works including giving.I picked all my MOG's books that dotted my library and placed them side by side with the whole bible and not the cherry picked verses and i saw i had signed away the liberty Christ's finished work on the cross got for me and was slowly going back to the burden that even Apostle Peter complained they and their father's couldn't bear.the more i learnt,the more my bible made sense to me and became more of a friend.

My brethren, i was led to the realization that no denomination existed in heaven and God had no retail offices on earth to transact business on his behalf.you and i are God's ambassadors,God's temple and God's building:we who are saved by grace are members of the body of Christ.we are recipients of the gift of righteousness and abundance of grace.I had no business with the devil as I'm already translated into the kingdom of God's dear son just waiting for the redemption of my body.

Freedom Freedom at last.since then,i stopped giving heed to men and denomination promoters.instead i listen to bible teachers and student alike and I'm so happy i found some on nairaland.wont mention names for now lest i be termed a man worshipper but a lot of you here have been helpful.i say thank you.

I apologize for my long and maybe boring treatise here.i am just thrilled to share.

hmmm....feelings of nostalgia..Greatest Ife
in addition to all above,

ro ra e jo.... trying to checkmate someone exaggerating
oyato fo...... hailing a friend on an 'achievement'
omo lanwa iwe labi.... used to describe a brilliant and studious person

these were in use uptil 2001.don't know if they're still operational

so many more but i wont monopolize the space

just relax @ home.....and plan not to be duped next year
cheers bro