₦airaland Forum

zoelife: @Goshen: God bless you for making it easier.
I decide, therefore, to give OF MY FREEWILL 10% (tithe, old english for 'tenth part) of every income I receive, to my local assembly, where I worship and am groomed in the Word. As my forefathers Abraham, Jacob (note God is often tagged with these names) did without any direct commandment, but of their freewill and revelation of God and His Eternal will.

@Christembassey: Don't u think u sound a bit mixed up here? Please refer back to @frosbel's post at the beginning of dis topic. Its because of His emphasis on the tithe dat we have come this far.

how did i miss this post since morning?

@the bolded.FREEWILL! FREEWILL!! FREEWILL!!! That's what grace is all about.Nothing dogmatic about it
God bless you dear sister.

None i humbly submit.

The Blood of Christ alone saves you from sin and makes you righteous with God.However,you can't claim to be saved and not share your worldly goods with those who need it which is what Christ brought out in Matt 25:34-40.Also Matt 22:37-40 tells us what Jesus calls the greatest commandments and all the law hang on them.

you can also read up on 1 Cor 13:1-end to know more about love.

God bless you

alexleo: Neither did i threaten anybody. what i dont like is people assuming the responsibility of the Holy Spirit by trying to enforce their stand on others like some of you anti-tithers(especially the ones who believe they now know the scriptures more than others) are doing. Also some tithers are displaying such foolishness and am not in support of that too. I only read your anti tithe submissions and decided not to swallow it rather to subject it to the leading of the Holy spirit who has always guided me into all truths. I dont get carried away by wind of doctrines because we are in the last days and the bible already told us that false prophets will arise thats why i resort to the Holy Spirit. Even in my church i dont swallow whatever anybody preaches just like that. At the end of every sermon or teaching i pray God for proper and true guidance and he has never failed me. My dear i ve come a long way in my walk with Christ and i ve seen so many things on this heavenly way so am not a small boy that gets carried away by sweet talks. Am not ready for whatever reason to miss heaven. Whatever that will make me to miss heaven i dont need it. The Holy Spirit remains my best guide and not any nairalander or anybody.

you have a right to your opinion brother and i respect that fully.When we appear on an anonymous public forum however,it becomes a different matter but i STRONGLY believe decorum should guide each write up or response.I ignore a lot of offensive posts which i feel lack any insight or relevance even on this thread except when it's a response to something i said.I'll advise you do same.

I see this forum as an opportunity to study my bible more and learn even from people opposed to my view but who discuss responsibly and i have really been blessed.

The aim is to be with the Lord at the end as you said not in counting the interest God pays on 'financial investments' we supposedly make to him.

Thank you

alexleo: You people have your reasons for being against tithe and as far as am concerned it remains your personal opinion and understanding. You dont have any right to claim that it is God-approved because we too have our own biblical quotes to support our stand. If you dont want to give tithe thats your own business but we will continue to give ours. You believe your stand is right and i believe mine is right. While you claim that tithe preachers Lord it over their members by repeatedly preaching it, you also are trying to Lord people into non-tithing. The issue of tithing is quite controversial and when and issue becomes this controversial i resort to the Holy Spirit for guidance. I refuse to be guided by whatever argument that is going on here and choose to be guided by the Holy Spirit.

It would have really been nice if you had been this courteous before.we could disagree without being disagreeable.

No one is trying to lord it over you but it becomes a problem when you quote Mal 3:8-10 to tell me devourers will deal with my finances and forgetting Ex 31:15 that instructs me to stone you to death for not keeping the sabbath.

Tithe was not explained in Mal 3:8-10.The details are in Deut 14:22-29 and the question has always been ''do you practice it as detailed as it's spelt out there? considering the admonition in Deut 27:26 about not missing a step in keeping of the law.

The holy spirit guides me but he doesn't threaten me with failure,death or doom for not keeping a law of Moses.

I don't think we should humour the poster.If only you hear all the do's and don'ts that christians have been threatened to keep,you'll understand.i was asked to pray and fast for 3 days after my wedding in my own case so we can be fruitful.i didn't mind them o.exactly 9 months 1 week after wedding,my lovely wife put to bed our first child.infact my elders in church jokingly called me quick action afterwards

@OP, pls there is no admonition like that in the bible never mind law.these are what Christ refered to as traditions of men.it has no single bearing on your spirituality.If you do it,God wont punish you and if you don't,he still wont punish you.

Go ahead bro and make that woman happy after the wedding i mean o.

peace

alexleo: NOT ONLY DID HE BACKSLIDE, HE ALSO DEVELOPED ANTI-TITHE MADNESS THATS WHY HIS VOMIT IS EVERYWHERE IN NAIRALAND. CHECK ALL HIS THREAD RECENTLY. I PITY THOSE HE AND HIS COHORTS HAVE AFFECTED WITH THEIR LEPROUS MESSAGE.

I wish i could understand the reason for your aggression.but calm down pls.it'll do you a lot of good.

Godseagle: . Now i must admit that you are doomed cos you cant keep one part of the Bible and Ignore the Other.

Is that meant to scare me?

I hope you keep the Sabbath too otherwise you should be stoned to death.I didn't say so Exodus 31:15 said it.

Bidam: he tithed for 2 years expecting returns on investment..when it didn't materialise...he backslidded.

It will really be good if you decide to grow up.must you get personal on this forum? you should know by now i don't do personal attacks because it's beneath me.You should learn the art of reasonable discussion from zoelife:we've disagreed without being disagreeable

I'll leave you to your childish vituperation.i hope they make you happy

cheers

Bidam: sorry bro.. i dnt need to read those trash called wikipedia..the bible and other edifying christian literature are good enouf for me..God's Word is infallible

no problem then bro,if that puts you at peace

cheers

zoelife: @candour: true talk. We are in the hour of grace. But may I ask, grace for merely getting by or grace for reigning and winning? Rom 5:17.
Also, tithing didn't begin with the law, brother. We can trace its principle back from Eden when God gave Adam all trees but one to enjoy. Till the devil came and attacked(and is now also doing). Its an act of circumcision of our resources, a proof of our reverence for the God who has given us all we enjoy. It is the distinguishing mark between the believer's finance and dat of the rest. Dats y he says he wld rebuke the devourer for a tither. And the devil knows dis too well. He don't fight the wrong battles.

@the bolded.My sister Nairaland is an anonymous forum and no person's status can be verified but believe me if i tell u i'm not just getting by.However stop seeing wealth or status as anything sister.It's empty,void and the richest of the rich will tell you.No matter how much you Tithe,you and your pastor will never be as rich as Bill Gates.and even if you're lucky to be as rich as Bill Gates or as powerful as Obama,what will it profit you? bragging rights? The day you die,you'll bring out a worse odour than a dog if you're not put in a mortuary fast.

Now you say tithing started in Eden,which bible verse tells you that? You know when pastors come up with this 'principle' thing,it hides a lot of things.You call tithe circumcision of resources,a proof of reverence for God.hmm.....my sister,God owns me and everything he has given me.He can have us both not just 10%.

Since you imply a good Christian is measured with the availability of resources @ his disposal,doesn't it worry you that the recent Forbes rich list of the richest 100 contains no name of a known Christian? i mean if Tithes is the criterion,then our MOG's who have been collecting it for upwards of 30 years now should have featured or you don't think so?

Christ said ''as you do to these needy ones,you do to me''.so helping the needy is the surest way of giving to God not by contributing to empires of which there are many variants.

My dear sister,i dont want to repeat the thread all over again that's why i didn't give you bible verses.If you wish for a lengthy discussion,Pls lets meet here tomorrow as i'll be leaving my location in a few minutes to get back to base.

God bless you

zoelife: @candour: u stopped tithing and ur actually bragging about it? OMG
Please retrace ur steps. There is a way that seemeth right to a man but....
Much more after u had tasted of His goodness once and are now rejecting His Word. Bro, pls rethink.

i'm not bragging sister,i'm just letting you know i live by the grace of God.If i take all my possesions to the gate of heaven,it wont by me salvation, wont buy me the air i breathe freely, wont buy me good health and surely will not save from inevitability of death so all the worldly goods i have means absolutely nothing to me and surely means nothing to my God.

what Gladdens the heart of our Christ is explicitly stated in Matthew 25:34-40.Kindly read it up and learn how to utilise the resources God has put in your custody.

Even my mum threatens me with Mal 3:8-10 and i tell her i'm under GRACE not the LAW of Moses.Gal 3:10-18

God bless you

zoelife: @Candour: not at all. I want to prove its efficacy. That paying your tithes to the church brings u all promised blessings and more. While not obeying is one quick and sure way to financial doom.

If you've been paying your tithes regularly which i assume you have and Mal 3:8-10 works for you,don't you think i should have known you before now? or are you one of the silent moneybags we have in this country? and since i stopped paying tithes 2 years ago,should i have still been able to afford access to a workstation if devourers are always on the prowl against non tithers

zoelife: Hmmm. Very long and heated topic. So many points and arguments raised. Guess the only way to reveal the truth is to throw up a challenge.

Convinced tithe payers to the Church vs Non tithers. Given a 5-year time frame, let's see who turns out better beginning from present estates.
Who's in?
I am.

Are u saying you want to test the workability or not of Mal 3:8-10?

christemmbassey: yes the thread has explained so much, pls avail urself. @Candour wasap child of God, i de hail o.

I hail you too my brother.Thank God for his mercies

Godseagle: . Are you trying to say that we are no longer expected to pay Tithes because Christ has come to fulfil the Law? Explanations pls

That is the crux of the whole matter my brother.explanations abound when you go through the thread.If there are specific concerns,just post and explanations will follow.

I trust i speak on behalf of everybody.

Cheers

OLAADEGBU: You say Non? Now you see how you and your blind guides often shoot over the bar when it comes to simple things in the Scriptures.

Let me give you a clue and see whether you can locate where this verse in your Bible and that's if you even have it in your bible. You said Abraham didn't keep any law:

()

When you are done you can then try to answer my original kweshion.

OLADEEGBU, see the bolded. I'm sure you know you are permitted to reply without being condescending or uncivil? i'm an adult and i trust you are one too so please lets act like adults.

the Verse you quoted is Gen 26:5.

lets agree he was asked to keep laws,which laws were those? are they the same laws God gave moses almost 500 years after or which ones?

Also i asked you a question on the laws of God which you keep as a mark of obedience to Matthew 5:17-19.

I still await your reply and pls keep it civil.

Thank you

Bidam: since when did wikipedia becomes our guide? this guy no be CHRISTIAN SHA..friendship with the world of wikipedia is ENEMITY WITH GOD.

Dear bro Bidam,you and i engaged in a discussion on this same thread some 3 weeks ago and it was very civil and mature.Pls lets keep it that way.if reading Wikipedia makes me UNCHRISTIAN,what about you opening threads on a site owned by a confirmed Atheist(Seun Osewa)? Lets keep our eyes on the ball and not derail.Thank you

You know a lot of christians remain ignorant because they forget there were cultures that existed before Abraham was born.Not every culture was covered by the bible.What will you say if i told you that the bible even refered to Jacob as a SYRIAN?(Deut 26:5) and to Abraham son of terah as an idol worshipper before God called him(Joshua 24:2)?

Read up on HISTORY OF CULTURES IN THE MIDDLE EAST and you'll know Tithes didn't originate with Abraham.He was practicing a culture well known and accepted in the middle east even before he was born.You think he was the first to have his wife encourage him to sleep with his maid? also read up the history of the Church and you'll find out Tithes did not surface until the 5th century AD when the established ROMAN CATHOLIC CHURCH made it a law to support a theocracy.

Don't quarell with wikipedia or google.they are your friends and are very useful

Now enough of derailing,lets get back to the issue

Thank you

I guess i'll be content to get a reply from OLADEEGBU tommorow if he'll be gracious enough to do so.
have to leave my location now and go back to my camp.militant guys around

@OLADEEGBU, Please and Please brother,Reply

brainpulse: How did He know He had to pay One tenth of the spoils, and what law was He obeying, since you guys called it Law?

Abraham was obeying a custom of the middle east.my brother,read up wikipedia article on tithe and you'll understand.however pls don't derail the flow here.OLADEEGBU asked me a question which i replied.i'm still waiting for a reply over 40 mins after.

Kindly let him reply pls.If you want a discourse with me,let me know so we can arrange it

thanks

brainpulse: How did He know He had to pay One tenth of the spoils, and what law was He obeying, since you guys called it Law?

my dear Brother,read all my posts.I'm not in the tithe business camp

@OLADEEGBU, I answered your question which was a response to my own question 4 mins after you posted.

I still await your answer my Brother

OLAADEGBU: Before I answer your sanctimonious question can you help your brothers out in answering the kweshun I asked them? The kweshun was:

What laws, commandments and statutes did Abraham keep?

Non.All his righteousness was based on faith. Gen 15:6

Now will you answer mine?

esere826: ahahahaahahah

and for those that want to divide God into 3 persons by force
or the others that want to force him by fire by fire to be one

It means nothing to him, only to you
We speak with words and imagery of men, which are not yet perfected
(For example is God a man with a pipi? )

Common guys, just relax and have a glass of SPIRIT
We've got a long journey ahead of us

I think i like this brother and his posts

OLAADEGBU: You can only pull wool over your blind followers. Why didn't you quote the whole context before running away with your private interpretation?

Here is the context in which our Lord Jesus was speaking and you will do well to read it.

"Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven"

(Matthew 5:17-19).

The underlined verses are what you deliberately left out so as to bamboozle folks who would not or cannot read it for themselves. Would you care to elucidate on these?

@OLADEEGBU, since you brought this up it will be righteous of you to tell us if you keep 4,only 4 out of the 613 commadments contained in the old testament.when you tell us maybe we can proceed from there.the commandments are

1.SABBATH Ex 20:8-11.see punishment for disobeying in Ex 31:15
2.Bodily discharge e.g seminal fluid Lev 15:16
3.One fruit per farm Deut 22:9
4.One material per garment Deut 22:11

Since you believe we are meant to keep all the 613 laws,do you keep these 4?

devour129: i have been sending my tithe to the east to my mum to use for evangelism instead of the church for years.this is the reason-mi mum goes to this fellowship they call sfi and what they do is to go to the villages to spread the gospel.everytime i see my mum struggling to raise money with other women so they can work.this is what they do every Thursday,they raise money among themselves,cook food and buy CLEAN water and chill it and take it to the village.so i asked her one day that must they cook and take gifts all the time and she said i should follow her one day and i went and my thinking has changed.my mum says why should you go to preach to these women(cos when a woman believes,she can change her family thus the world)without feeding them first and bringing medicine for the sick.some of these villagers are tired of all the crusaders.these pastors go to preach and still collect offerings and tithes from these poor people which is wicked.so what my mum and her friends dd is they go,share food first(COS ITS NOT A BRIBE) and preach after words.they don't take any kobo from them and don't collect gifts.they preach in a particular villager for a while and pick a leader amongst them whom will continue when they move to another village.to cut story short,i rather send mi TITHE there than give it to church since all of you here are already giving the church so i doubt the church needs mine

May God bless you and your Mum and her group a billion fold.

As you have done it to those poor ones,you have done it to the Lord.So says Matt 25:34-40

Goshen360: @ the bold.

Do you know why I fight that deliverance stuffs for 'christians'? It's based on your second paragraph - I've also been once deceived doing deliverance for 'christians' and attaching a little thing that happens to demon and satan but it was because of tradition passed down to me from our church leaders then. My brother, when I sat myself down to study the word, one verse at a time. It's like a veil is taken away from my eyes. I began to see myself how God sees me and this blessedness and riches are only found IN CHRIST AND REVEALED IN THE EPISTLES. I love the word bro.

no be small thing o my brother

JIL: I think the way this has been adopted in some churches is that satellite churches represent the levites while the HQ represent the priest where all affiliated churches are expected to in turn pay their tithes to.

Can you imagine the bastardisation and convolution?

God will help us

kramer: Just to add to what i mentioned previously... In 1 Corithians 9, I believe (but please correct me if i'm wrong, i'm here to learn not dictate ) that Paul talks about gospel preachers having the right to live off "offerings" (not tithe i believe) given by the recipients of the "Good News". But Note that Paul was more satisfied with preaching the Good News than collecting offerings (If only most preachers were like this). So that i do not quote out of context I have pasted most of the chapter.

1 Am I not free? Am I not an apostle? Have I not seen Jesus our Lord? Are you not the result of my work in the Lord?

2 Even though I may not be an apostle to others, surely I am to you! For you are the seal of my apostleship in the Lord.

3 This is my defense to those who sit in judgment on me.

4 Don’t we have the right to food and drink?

5 Don’t we have the right to take a believing wife along with us, as do the other apostles and the Lord’s brothers and Cephas (Peter)?

6 Or is it only I and Barnabas who lack the right to not work for a living?

7 Who serves as a soldier at his own expense? Who plants a vineyard and does not eat its grapes? Who tends a flock and does not drink the milk?

8 Do I say this merely on human authority? Doesn’t the Law say the same thing?

9 For it is written in the Law of Moses: “Do not muzzle an ox while it is treading out the grain.” Is it about oxen that God is concerned?

10 Surely he says this for us, doesn’t he? Yes, this was written for us, because whoever plows and threshes should be able to do so in the hope of sharing in the harvest.

11 If we have sown spiritual seed among you, is it too much if we reap a material harvest from you?

12 If others have this right of support from you, shouldn’t we have it all the more? But we did not use this right. On the contrary, we put up with anything rather than hinder the gospel of Christ.

13 Don’t you know that those who serve in the temple get their food from the temple, and that those who serve at the altar share in what is offered on the altar?

14 In the same way, the Lord has commanded that those who preach the gospel should receive their living from the gospel.

15 But I have not used any of these rights. And I am not writing this in the hope that you will do such things for me, for I would rather die than allow anyone to deprive me of this boast.

16 For when I preach the gospel, I cannot boast, since I am compelled to preach. Woe to me if I do not preach the gospel!

17 If I preach voluntarily, I have a reward; if not voluntarily, I am simply discharging the trust committed to me. --- (This makes me wonder, are most preachers today voluntary preachers who are in it for the reward or are they God sent?)

18 What then is my reward? Just this: that in preaching the gospel I may offer it free of charge, and so not make full use of my rights as a preacher of the gospel.

You are not wrong also.from 1 Cor 9 that you quoted,it's obvious Paul approved of ministers being taken care of by the church.See the example Christ set for us in the following references.
Matt 10:11
''And into whatsoever city or town ye shall enter,inquire who in it is worthy:and there abide till ye go thence''

see also Luke 10:4-7 but i'll reproduce verse only verse 7 here
Luke 10:7
''And in the same house remain, eating and drinking such things as the give:for the labourer is worthy of his hire.Go not from house to house''

However we can see that Paul refused to exercise this right because he didn't want a stumbling block to the gospel.therefore he concentrated on his tent making in Acts 18:2-3.Infact he admonished the Ephesian elders(ministers) to work hard so they can give members of their congregations who were in need like he did in Acts 20:33-35.

A true minister who loves his people should work for his own upkeep like Paul did.If needs be that his congregation should cater for him,then they should be informed and resources pulled for that purpose.The primary purpose of the collections requested in 1Cor 16:1 and 2Cor 9:1 was to cater for poor saints @ Jerusalem(Acts 11:28-30 and Rom 15:25-28).If a pastor falls into this same category of poor saints then he should tell so his people will know.

Bless you brother

initiate: In just one day this thread has received so many posts, so I wonder- Why are our pple so passionately interested in the topic?

I can understand the passion if you support tithing, but if you dont why not just ignore and use your energy for some issue that will benefit Nigeria, eg preaching against Boko Haram, or corruption, or kidnapping

My dear brother,have you ever heard of the Jonestown tragedy? if you have not,pls google it up and read.That is what happens when false doctrine is not challenged.You might also want to check up 'Movement for the Restoration of the Ten Commandments of God' church massacre in Uganda in 2000

Also the Tithe scam is @ the heart of the corruption bedeviling the church and by extension the nation which in turn robs the people of their collective resources giving birth to social vices like Boko haram.

Kill greed,covetousness and conspicuous consumption in Christendom and you will see a drastic reduction in crimes in Nigeria.

ojiefi: CHAPTER WHAT VERSE WHAT??

Deut 14:22-29.special emphasis on verse 28 & 29

God bless you

kramer: Took me two days to go through the whole thread and I have to say it was worth it.

From my understanding I believe tithes are meant for the Levites, Orphans and Widows as mentioned.

I believe it is wrong for anyone else outside this group to receive tithes. For it is like claiming someone else's inheritance from God

Number 18:25-26 25 The Lord said to Moses, 26 “Speak to the Levites and say to them: ‘When you receive from the Israelites the tithe I give you as your inheritance, you must present a tenth of that tithe as the Lord’s offering.

Claiming tithes is as unjust as claiming someone else's property. It is not meant for anyone besides the owner!... dont claim what is not yours

Tithes belong to those mentioned by God in the bible.. And it is wrong to twist Levites to mean Pastors so as to claim the inheritance of the Levites.

Please feel free to correct me if I am wrong... we are all learning here

God bless you my brother for taking your time to go through the thread and arriving @ your conclusion.

You are not wrong child of God.The levites are no more and even if we have to adopt the law of moses,the equivalent of priests today would be pastors and equivalent of levites would be ushers,choir,sanctuary keepers,secretaries,children teachers,cleaners in the church.Numbers 18:25-26 you quoted tells us the levites and NOT the priests collect the Tithes.The levites only give 10% of the tithes they receive to the priests.

The Mal 3:8-10 tithe collectors and payers quote was actually talking to levites and priests.start reading from Mal 1:6 to get all the story

If only Christians would realise that the Tithing they practice today is a horribly corrupted version of the one Moses gave the children of isreal.

God bless you once again

@Wordthots

Dear brother,Calvary greetings.i'm so much blessed by your answers proffered above.You know our African culture steeped in so much idolatry and superstition has been incorporated into the Christianity we practice today.That's why you hear some prayer points in church today and you have to check again if you're before a Sango priest or still in a church.

I remember when i was deep in this deliverance thing and had to take a tree branch and a big broom to a pastor to pray on to ward of demonic influences from my compound.i think back to that episode and wonder how could i have been so gullible with all my supposed excellent education?

we have to keep opening the bible to point out the riches of the God's Grace spread abroad when Christ shed his blood on Calvary.Through this alone will God's children conquer the fear of the Devil and demons that plague on every side.

God bless you richly