₦airaland Forum

Pray tell why you guys did not move to Libya then to enjoy this wonderful paradise. Someone above mentioned democracy as being a bad thing. Please tell me you don't live in any western country because if you do then that would be most hypocritical of you.

You give the example of Nigerian democracy having achieved nothing for 50 yrs but then neglect to mention that in that period we have had only about 6 yrs of true democracy. We have had military dictatorships and have had supposedly "civilian" rulers who rigged themselves into power.

I would also love you to explain the success of scandinavian countries who have the highest standard of living in the world. When you talk of Free education I have a friend who just went back to her native Sweden to go to medical school for free because she couldn't afford the cost of studying in the US. Are you going to say that Sweden is not a democracy?

Your arguments are better directed at Capitalism as an economic system not democracy as a political one. Libya can be the utopia you all claim it is without one man and his family terrorising the whole country like it is his personal property. If Libya was such a paradise there would not be such a popular uprising. People deserve not to live in fear.

logic101:
@cap 28
i just observed something interesting
libya has been omited from the economic indexes of countries .In that way one cant examine the standard of living in libya here are a few sitess

http://www.economywatch.com/economic-statistics/economic-indicators/GDP_Per_Capita_PPP_US_Dollars/2011/

all4naija:
I don't care about what people think about somebody ruling for life, all I care about is to see human rights enforced, freedom uphold and justice and equity become the order of the day and Gaddafi leave that country for the people.

People should stop coming here with backward talks as if Libya is the only country in the world that produces petroleum while defending a killer and tyrant like Gaddafi. It is surprising to know that somebody is saying Libya was poor during 1960s that he turns the country around and give the people basic needs and move the things forward. Sorry to say such person only read about Libyan history and forget to touch how much oil was discovered in during the 60s.

Meanwhile, the people asked for a change and it must be given to them. They can't condone being enslaved - many Libyans are fed up of living the way there are under Gaddafi. I hear some Libyans saying this is the best thing that has happened to them, that they have been looking forward to this change and not matter what happens they just want a change.

Before people start defending Gaddafi and his govt the the people say they don't want him and who are you to say they don't know what they are getting into. Come on you guys are addressing this issue as if Libya is the only oil producing country without foreign interference. Country like Quatar, Bahrain, Omar,etc are Arab nations that has made giant stride in providing for their citizens under different forms of govt more or less the type of govt which Gaddafi dethroned.

We should stop making dictators look like they are good or genuine. They are myopic and good at imprison, killing and brainwashing of their citizens which the present generation of youths are against.

The citizenry can't trade their freedom for mere dictator who blindfolded them with what I would called 'fools paradise', where their needs are based on what the govt. offer not what they can do with what they have. I hear that an average Libyans lack any form of skills in work places, that foreigners do everything for them. They must be spoiled under a leader who only cares to stay in power forever through the use of deceitful tools which blind them from reality.

Above all, I think average Libyans will disagree with those of you defending Gaddafi, if not threaten by his tyranny.

milehigh06:
simple question,if a man has been ruling Nigeria for 40 yrs,how many of you will be happy,abacha ruled for for common 5yrs and there was riot all over naija,obasanjo was looking for extra yrs and people almost went crazy,if you as Nigerians cant stand that happening in Nigeria,why would u wish same for Libyans.frankly,i don't care who got Gaddafi out of office,just glad he is gone for regardless of what he has done for his country,no country should be turned into your personal family,no leader has ruled Nigeria for half as long as Gaddafi ruled Libya,America has their faults don't get me wrong and i have not stated my support for the acts of the country but at the same time,when you have all these corrupt African leaders who never call their members to order,it only leaves a vacuum which someone else will fill
like the saying"if you do not act like a parent to your child,he/she will find a parent outside and just pray that the parent found will have a positive influence on your child"
any person offended by earlier comments,i tender my apology for i feel we should be able to get our points across without bitterness

nolongTing:
[size=15pt]It has just been confirmed that Saif Al Islam was not captured! he plans to tour Tripoli and has appeared on TV its all lies and propaganda![/size]

https://img198.imageshack.us/img198/2639/screenshot20110823at012.png

Uploaded with ImageShack.us

nolongTing:
The rebels are NOT in control of Tripoli its all porpaganda! NATO is using phycological warfare to demoralise Gadaffi and his soldiers. They have bombed Libya for 2 days continuously! - they are desperate for victory before their money and mandate runs out.

1. why did the rebels not release a picture of Saif?

2. Insert Quote
  ALJAZEERA
23 min 21 sec ago - Libya
Reports say Mohammad Gaddafi, son of the Libyan leader has escaped from custoday after being captured by opposition fighters yesterday. He was aided by Gaddafi loyalists.

The second son escaped! and no one is talking about it! pure hypocrisy, I got it from an aljazeera blog.

nolongTing:
Yes dumb Africans with an inferiority complex and think europeans are Gods.  Why else would you stand up for people who killed, rapped, robbed and enslaved your people for 480 years? Then had the nerve to repeat those attrocities in the name of Colonialism? Did they compensate Africa after the crimes? How must Africa recover then tell me?

Yes! Mugabe was the original Mandela, he forgave white people and thats why they settled in his country. He simply wanted to take back some of the 70% of land stolen by whites who were around 3% of the population.  He did so in a hostile manner because they were plotting to topple him politically so they could take over the country.  Now if you remember all that happened was they were evicted and a few of them had a bloody nose – thats it.

As a result the west took revenge on him and imposed economic sanctions.  Now surely you know that economic sanctions cripple countries dont you? If he was so bad why did the Queen of England give him a Knighthood, the highest honour in England and invite hom to her palace? Zimbabwe is not resource rich so he must have been a pleasant fellow. South Africa is currently carrying out land reform; by taking land back from white farmers who STOLE it, why have the west not imposed economic sanctions?

Libya had the highest living standards in Africa before the invasion! The man had an alternative system of government – it was all in his green book; Tony blair even stole the idea from him and called it “the Third Way”. Do you think western democracy is the only form of government? Is china democratic? Has china changed leadership?  He has not spent half of what the frivolous saudis spend in a month! Why not bomb them? Because they give US and England defence contracts worth tens of billions.

martinosi:
Emmatok you need to crawl back under the rock where u were sleeping.

You are just talking ignorantly.

AND BY THE WAY WHO TOLD U THAT CHANGING LEADERS = IMPROVING A COUNTRY, GO AND CHECK U.A.E

emmatok:
Look i don't believe in your Anti-west sentiments.

The problem with Africa is from Africans.

Do you also want to blame the West for Zimbabwe crisis.

If Gaddafi is actually the good man that you preach .

How come Libya has no other leader for the past 40 years, instead him and his Son were ruling.

emmatok:
90% of those fighters are Libyans,  most of decamped from the Libyan.

It  is easy to come here and blame the West for the problem in Africa.

Yet we African easy run to the West for refuge.

Even the Almighty Muammar Gadaffi cannot keep his stolen fund in Libya, instead he went to the west

logic101:
@ cap happy sunday hope you doing good.
1. Nigerians are not thought their history, I remember as a kid in history and social studies classes was more of a lesson of white bravery and humanism,The nigerian history i learnt was that lord lugard almagamated the south and north to form one country.Was told how mongo park discovered river niger and how mary slessor stoped the killing of twins in crossriver.
The result , u loose your history and get conditioned with a new one and it has a pattern, i>e nigerians were savages who killed children, africans had no history prior to the arrival of the european, the european was always there to save us like superman, This creates a subconscious mind that equates black== useless,
this is so obvious in companies in nigeria todayyy,


2. in religion classes, they told us that our Gods were pagans , evil blood suckers, that we shouldn't look at them or even find out the history, We were thought to pray for everything and wait for Gods(chrisitanity) time. I was thought that the white man brought his religion and it was a priviledge for us to be converted cause our souls were dammed.

the result, A group of people who have no spirituality and only go to church because they have been conditioned too, our customs have also been lost because our traditional religions were also our libraries, we have no military knwoledge.have lost our sciences. A group of people who think its africans lot to suffer on earth , The indians still have their own religions.
e.g the dogon ethnic group found in mali today have know the existence of siruis long before the europeans knew it but it was preserved because their religion remains intact . they refused to be converted to islam,

i didnt know all these until i began to ask questions (in africa a young man asking questions is attributed to madness ), i have read the works of john henrik clark,, ivan sertima,, frantz fannon and many moree,
i have also realised that we had great kingdoms in nigeria,, ife,benin,aro,oyo,nok,

in regards to libya, it pains me when i see fellow africans being happy that nato is bombing the hell out of libya to get kaddaffi out, they refuse to acknowledge that he is a threat to certain people who want to have a field day in africa. they also refuse to think globally and think africa exists only in nigeria, (we dont know it all and so we have to seek for knowledge) but sme people never get it,

Cap that quote sums it al upp. know thyselfffff and know thy enemyyyy,
would add some
learn your history because your history tells you your present and plan for your future,

So it is said that if you know your enemies and know yourself, you can win a hundred battles without a single loss.
If you only know yourself, but not your opponent, you may win or may lose.
If you know neither yourself nor your enemy, you will always endanger yourself.

Johnpaul2k2:
is GEJ the first person or President to talk about subsidy? Why can't we appreciate good thing for one day. Is this the only aspect you lay from freaking emphasis? Fine another time to do with friend's computer instead of writing trash. No offense also

Nigeria and White Supremacy

"If you don't understand white supremacy--what it is, and how it works -- everything else that you understand will only confuse you."

The picture painted by Franklyn, though illuminating as far as it goes, does not go far enough. It is like a picture of a train that leaves out the engine. To complete the picture we need to add the role of the white supremacy institutions of the new imperialism in initiating and maintaining the disaster that is Nigeria.

If we understood the devious ways of white supremacy, in this stage of what Nkrumah called "Neo-colonialism", we would see that my account and Franklyn's are not contradictory or alternative accounts, but are complementary. Franklyn describes the body of the snake, I pointed at its head [albeit in passing, in the context of our discussion of white supremacy.] [b]The combined and fuller picture allows us to see how the mess in Nigeria serves a white supremacy which manipulates Nigeria through institutions like the IMF, the World Bank, the UN agencies, The (British) Commonwealth, which link Nigeria to the global system of white supremacy.

Nigeria, like other black African countries, has been misruled by local Black Comprador Colonialists whose paramount interest is to preserve the subordination of their countries to the imperialist interests of their "former" colonial masters. It is that subordination that permits them to loot their own people for their imperialist masters, and allows them, as the junior partners and agents of imperialism, to keep a share of the loot, which is their own consuming interest. Of course, to that end they have frustrated, in their own local interests, any attempt to develop an autonomous polity that is answerable to its own people, that responds to the will/desires of its own people. A Nigerian polity that responds to its own people would have less to hand over to the imperialist masters, and would come under imperialist pressure and attacks. A current example is Mugabe's Zimbabwe. For so long as Mugabe did not try to take back the land stolen by the whites, he was okay. But when he began to respond to his people's land hunger, he became a pariah and came under sanctions and destabilization from the white supremacist powers like the UK, the USA and the EU. In contrast, Nigeria, under Obasanjo, handed to the foreign creditors a whopping $12bn to allegedly get Nigeria debt-free (which it did not) while leaving Nigeria with badly decayed roads, power supply, education, etc that still need massive capital injection to refurbish them. Needless to say, the debt-free mirage was just a scam. Nigeria is still not debt free and still goes aborrowing. But since Obasanjo was a loyal servant to the white imperialist powers, he had a free hand to rig elections, sack villages that contested his misrule (e.g Odi in the Niger Delta was sacked by Obasanjo's soldiers), and to loot to his greed's content. By the way, the bulk of the loot from what is misnamed "corruption" gets stashed away in the banks of Europe and America, thus adding to the total plunder that the imperialists extract. In that way, even the much decried corruption of the Nigerian elite ends up serving the white powers. It also bribes the Black compradors with part of the imperialist loot so they don’t buck the system.

We need to keep this fuller picture in view if we are to understand the so-called "failed state" of Nigeria. Nigeria, from the viewpoint of its population, is a failed state, has always been a failed state, i.e. a state that has failed to serve them or address their interests. And it has been that way right from its founding by the British a century ago. But it is not yet a failed state from the standpoint of its British and other imperialist masters. It has always served the white power interest, and consistently, at the expense of the interests of its population, during both the period of White Expatriate colonialism which ended in 1960, and the period of Black Comprador colonialism that began in 1960. We need to be ever mindful of these two senses of the phrase “failed state”.

Incidentally, though Nigeria is financially in a position to give free education to all its citizens--lets leave aside the matter of the damaging white supremacist content of that education-- part of why it does not do so is that much of its resources is pumped abroad to the coffers of the white supremacists through "debt" repayments and the routine looting by the foreign companies and their Nigerian comprador agents. If Obasanjo had chosen to apply to Nigeria's needs the $12bn he eagerly handed over to the white shylocks, there would be more than enough funds for the free education Franklyn is talking about, and for much else. Nigeria could become like Kuwait, Dubai etc, or even like Cuba, if it organized to use its oil earnings in the interest of its population. But for 50 years, the Black comprador colonialists have not seen fit to organize that. With their Eurocentric education and blancophile brainwashing and their mental allegiance to White supremacy, they have fallen for every conman advice that the white supremacists gave them on "development", especially through the IMF and the World Bank and the foreign aid outfits like Britain's ODA and America's USAID.[/b]

The ways of white supremacy are comprehensively devious. In fact one of its uses for the "independence" imperialism granted its colonies was to enable it deny responsibility for what its Black comprador agents do to their own people, even though it is all part of what they are prompted and encouraged to do for the continuing imperialist plunder of these "ex-colonies". These black misgovernments are serving as monkey's paws and fall guys for the plundering of Black Africa by and for the white powers.

Like the Black Slavers in the era of the Chattelization Wars, a.k.a. the Slave Trade, and like the plantation overseers and house niggers of ante-bellum USA, the Black colonialists of today operate within the framework and mandate given them by white supremacy, but they add their own peculiar twists to the master's mandate. The executive anarchism of the Nigerian comprador elite just happens to be, perhaps, the most abominable of these local twists to the basic mandate given by white supremacy to its local black agents.

We all need to continually deepen and update our understanding of white supremacy and its manifold and morphing ways if we are to see its dominant and directing roles in our condition. We also need to understand the roles of its black colonialist agents among us, and their own special contributions to the mess. If you want more insights into the Nigerian case, I can send you "Black Colonialists"-- an interview I did two years ago on the roots of the trouble with Nigeria. You could also read The West and the Rest of Us, for insights on the ways and means of white supremacy especially during the post WWII transition to Black colonialism in Africa.

-- Chinweizu
http://nigeriantimes..com/2008/03/nigeria-white-supremacy-criminal-or.html

martinosi:
lol! what a joke, the prison jails or rooms in america are resembling
Nigerian boarding school Hotels lol!!!

But they most of the guys being locked up in the USA are being put their for minor offensess. Well its all cheap labour that the
elite in the USA are looking for as they are building new Private prisions faster than Federal/State Prisons.

Whoa! USA is really turning into a prison planet State.