₦airaland Forum

Yup Clinton is beginning to panic because she can see that a lot more people are waking up and turning away from the vast disinformation cabal that is the western media.

Lets hope more and more people continue to desert the corporate media in droves and start to rely on alternative news sources for the truth.

Libya Operation: Foreign Oil Interests Prompt Invasion
by grtv
Mideast expert Mahdi Darius Nazemroaya says that US wants to appropriate Libyan oil, and that operations have already begun.

"Foreign intervention can only exasperate the problem in Libya. It cannot help it in any way," he declared. "As a matter of fact, the foreign intervention has already begun. The French, the US and the British have already sent so-called humanitarian aid to Benghazi, but they have also sent military advisers and Special Forces. This means that the operation has already begun."

Mahdi Darius Nazemroaya is a Research Associate at the Centre for Research on Globalization.

http://tv.globalresearch.ca/2011/03/libya-operation-foreign-oil-interests-prompt-invasion

Bastage:
Water is a necessity. It is not a luxury as you seem to believe.

water is a luxury if you live in an arid region at such close proximity to the sahara desert.
in your own country your own leaders are incapable of providign its citizenry with something as basic as constant electricity.
Isnt it funny how you dont hold your own leaders to the very high standard of accountability that you hold leaders of other countries?

So what? The US has a higher rate still yet they're bad guys according to you.

Just in case you werent aware the US is a developed industrialised nation, Libya is a developing nation just recovering from almost 15 years of US imposed economic sanctions - and to think this is the person calling someone unintelligent 

Not really that suprising when Libya is sitting on the biggest oil reserves in the whole of Africa. But why don't you tell the truth and admit that the GDP is a pittance to what the people should really be getting. Libyans should be far, far richer than they actually are. They should be up there with the Gulf Arabs. But they're not, are they.

but in your own country (which is the 8th largest exporter of crude oil) your leaders choose to divert billions of dollars in oil revenues into their personal bank accounts while the majority of nigerians live in squalor, Gadaffi at least provides his people with affordable housing, social services and builds useful infrastructure.  do you see why i think you might be one sandwich short of a picnic?

The vast majority of Libyan expenditure goes to the West of the country. Now and again, a bone is thrown to the East. Why do you think that it is the East where the revolt is centered, you slowpoke?

Mumu, keep crying more than the bereaved, your own country is like a cesspit and you have the guts to stand in judgement on a leader of a country who did more for his people than your own leaders could ever do in 10 lifetimes,  look at what your own "leaders" do with your own oil revenue :

Toward the end of 2008, about $30 billion sat in Nigeria’s Excess Crude Account, a government fund of extra revenue that exceeds what the government has budgeted from the projected price of oil.

When oil prices are high, money flows into the account, and it becomes an irresistible, unaccounted — for jackpot, especially for the largely autonomous governors of Nigeria’s 36 states, according to financial analysts and good-government groups.

From $30 billion, the fund had trickled down to about $450 million by mid-2010, according to Veronica Kalema of Fitch Ratings, which late last year downgraded Nigeria’s outlook from “stable” to “negative” partly because of the vast and largely unaccounted outflow from the Excess Crude Account.

By the beginning of this year, the fund had trickled down to about $300 million, according to reports in the Nigerian media. Officials with the Finance Ministry did not respond to calls for comment this month, but about $15 billion was spent in 2010 alone, Ms. Kalema said.

Some of the vast pile of cash, perhaps $5 billion to $8 billion, has been spent on so-far unfruitful efforts to upgrade Nigeria’s feeble power output, which remains no better than that of a mid-size American city for a nation of over 150 million people, Africa’s most populous.

But the rest, some $22 billion or more, remains largely unaccounted for.

“Where the hell did the remaining $22 billion-plus go?” asked a foreign-based adviser to the Nigerian government who asked to remain anonymous because of his continuing relationship with it. “Most of the remaining $22 billion was drawn down by the state governments without any particular projects to spend it on, just on the basis of, there’s money sitting in the accounts, let’s draw it down.”

It is entirely possible that nobody has a clear picture of what has become of this vast sum after it was parceled out at meetings of the state governors.

“It’s basically free money,” said another financial consultant who has advised the Nigerian government. “Once you get it, there are no checks and balances on what happens to it.” The results, or lack of them, are visible in places like this steamy state capital at Nigeria’s southern edge. Empty grandiose shells — the unfinished hotel looks like a giant waffle cone -tower over swamps, near brand-new poured-concrete government buildings alongside ramshackle corrugated-metal-roofed shacks.

http://www.vanguardngr.com/2011/02/of-nigeria%E2%80%99s-oil-money-and-misapplication/#

The same sort of sanctions that were placed upon Mugabe? Yet you say that the West never acted on African cases. Also, the sanctions are not on "Libya". They are targetted against the regime. There's a huge difference, although I wouldn't expect someone so poorly educated to know that.

YOu really do have a problem with basic comprehension, i said the west failed to intervene in Rwanda to stop the genocide of 1 millions tutsis in a space of 2 months - twit.

Total and utter dithering. So badly prepared that they were picked up the second that they landed. But that's besides the point. It wasn't even a military mission (as you claim). It was diplomatic. Not only incorrect on your part but also irrelevant. You're not doing very well are you?

So diplomatic missions are now undertaken by special forces officers?
So these "diplomats" preferred to arrive by helicopter and land in the middle of the libyan desert  in the dead of night?  I thought diplomats used airports like everybody else?
Also are diplomats in the habit of carrying multiple passports together with espionage and reconnaissance equipment and WEAPONS?

Here is how these "diplomats" were described in the independent press:

The bungling bunch, are thought to have been assembled by the "Secret Intelligence Service",
The"SIS collects secret intelligence and mounts covert operations overseas in support of British Government objectives", states their website.

YOU'RE not doing very well are you?

http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=23660

LOL. You not-so-smart person. You not only believe a conspiracy website but you misread it. The Black Watch are not in Malta. And do you know what "being on stand-by" means. It means someone said "We may have to go to Libya one day". Nothing more. As for the aircraft in Malta, again you show no knowledge of the subject. They are transport planes and are/were being used to removed foreign nationals

mumu here is the main source from the daily mail:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1363187/Libya-unrest-UK-spies-SAS-troops-poised-help-Libyan-rebels.html

The fact of the matter is that british troops are on standby - hardly the actions of a govt who are dithering dont you think?
Transport planes lol - do transport planes conduct air surveillance:

It is understood that the UK is more likely to supply air-to-air refuelling planes and AWACS spy-in-the-sky aircraft to any No Fly Zone operation.
These planes are already flying around Libya's air space monitoring Colonel Gaddafi's use of his air force and helicopter gunships.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1363187/Libya-unrest-UK-spies-SAS-troops-poised-help-Libyan-rebels.html#ixzz1GQ2Qy7D7

LMAO. As one who supports dictatorships over democracy, I'd say you have a problem with hypocrisy. You'll need to get over your bigger problem of lack of intelligence before you can address that though.

I would say that if there is anyone who is lacking in the intelligence department it is clearly you, like the fool you are you open your gob and spew pure gibberish before even attempting to put your "brain" into gear  - word of advice - learn to read and UNDERSTAND english before displaying your below average iq on a public forum.

Bastage:
LOL. The Russians monitoring from space have a better take on it than actual eye witness videos taken as the attacks came in?
These aren't videos just from media, they've also been taken by locals.


Do you realise how silly you sound?

You're still not getting it are you dimwit?

did these locals confirm that AIRSTRIKES against UNARMED PROTESTERS took place on the day that the western media said they did?

if yes can you substantiate this with clear evidence as opposed to hearsay?

if not, kindly buzz off.

Bastage:
What is this cap28 character burbling about?

There have clearly been airstrikes. There is no doubt of that.

What an oaf .

Illiterate , reading, writing and comprehension in basic english are clearly not your forte, read the excerpt below again and this time try and understand that it is referring to airstrikes on a PARTICULAR DAY on UNARMED CIVILLIANS:

"All war is based on Deception" - "in war, the first casualty is truth"; Sun Tzu's Art of War

The reports of Libya mobilizing its air force against its own people spread quickly around the world. However, Russia's military chiefs say they have been monitoring from space - and the pictures tell a different story.

According to Al Jazeera and BBC, on February 22 Libyan government inflicted airstrikes on Benghazi -- the country's largest city -- and on the capital Tripoli. However, the Russian military, monitoring the unrest via satellite from the very beginning, says nothing of the sort was going on on the ground.

At this point, the Russian military is saying that, as far as they are concerned, the attacks some media were reporting have never occurred. The same sources in Russia's military establishment say they are also monitoring the situation around Libya's oil pumping facilities.

Twit!!

Bastage:
cap 28. I've read some drivel here on nairaland but your inane ramblings are really up there with the best of them.
You have no clue whatsover how politics work and you have a very, very tenuous grasp on facts. Those "facts" that you are in possession of you have twisted to fit your ignorant conspiracy theorist agenda.

Let's look at some of them shall we?

No he hasn't. He has spent money on keeping those who prop up his government happy. For example, his tribal home of Sirte has received immense funding whilst the East of the country receives very little. He is a typicval dictator in this respect as he pays to keep his power base whilst weakening his opponents through poverty.

I suppose the construction of the Great Manmade river was spent "on keeping those who prop up his govt happy":

The Great Man-Made River (GMR, النهر الصناعي العظيم) is a network of pipes that supplies water to the Sahara Desert in Libya, from the Nubian Sandstone Aquifer System fossil aquifer. It is the world's largest irrigation project.[1]

According to its website, it is the largest underground network of pipes and aqueducts in the world. It consists of more than 1,300 wells, most more than 500 m deep, and supplies 6,500,000 m³ of fresh water per day to the cities of Tripoli, Benghazi, Sirt and elsewhere.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Manmade_River

Now lets have a look at some of the towns that receive fresh water supply from this structure:  Adjabiya (north eastern Libya), Benghazi (north eastern Libya) Tobruk, Jaghoub (north eastern Libya) Kufra (north eastern libya)

is it me or are all these towns in the east of libya?

Now lets see what the western press had to say about this great acheivement in 2006 when they were still on good terms with gadaffi:

In August 1984, Muammar Al Qadhafi laid the foundation stone for the pipe production plant at Brega. The Great Man-Made River Project had begun.


Click here to see a map of the pipeline network
Libya had oil money to pay for the project, but it did not have the technical or engineering expertise for such a massive undertaking.

Foreign companies from South Korea, Turkey, Germany, Japan, the Philippines and the UK were invited to help.


It is impossible not to be impressed with the scale of the project
In September 1993, Phase I water from eastern well-fields at Sarir and Tazerbo reached Benghazi. Three years later, Phase II, bringing water to Tripoli from western well-fields at Jebel Hassouna, was completed.

Phase III which links the first two Phases is still under construction.

Adam Kuwairi, a senior figure in the Great Man-Made River Authority (GMRA), vividly remembers the impact the fresh water had on him and his family.

"The water changed lives. For the first time in our history, there was water in the tap for washing, shaving and showering," he told the BBC World Service's Discovery programme.

"The quality of life is better now, and it's impacting on the whole country."
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/4814988.stm

Also Libya has the lowest infant mortality rate and the highest life expectancy in the whole of Africa.

It also has the highest gross domestic product (GDP) per capita in the whole of Africa.

Now are you going to turn around and tell me that the only beneficiaries of all this development are tribes in the west where  his  "power base" is located ?

"Unbelievable speed"? You're joking, right? The US and UK have done nothing but dither and hesitate through the whole Middle East crisis (let alone the Libyan one). What "intervention" has actually taken place? The answer is - none. Even their diplomatic rhetoric is hesitant. One day it is No Fly Zones and the next day they are saying that they can't put No Fly Zones in place without UN approval. For you to suggest that the West has had any major input into the crisis on the ground in Libya at the moment shows breath-taking ignoarance. About the only thing that they've done is removed their own nationals.

Lets restrict the discussion to the Libyan situation, shall we? You say the west have dithered and hesitated since the supposed revolution in Libya.  Would  you call the imposition of immediate economic sanctions on Libya, cutting off cash flows to Libyan central banks , stepping up NATO surveillance on the coast of Libya dithering ?

How about the SAS forces that were sent by the UK (who were subsequently captured by Libyan rebels in the desert)  would you call that dithering on the part of the UK?

How about the fact that the UK frigate Westminster and the Royal Fleet Auxiliary ship Argus have been sent to the area

How about the fact that as we speak briitish aircraft  and 600 troops  are on 24-hour standby in Malta  - do you call that dithering and hesitant behaviour?

http://www.wsws.org/articles/2011/mar2011/huma-m11.shtml

What? Which planet do you live on? On the one I live on there is no US involvement in Libya. They haven't gone into Libya and have stated that they have no intention of doing so. Again this is a breath-takingly ignorant statement and the complete opposite of the actual truth.

Really so what was this about:

Also today, Secretary of State Hillary Rodham Clinton said the U.S. is "reaching out" to Libyans trying to organize a post-Qaddafi government and is "ready and prepared to offer any type of assistance."

Clinton told reporters traveling with her to Geneva for a U.N. meeting Monday on Libya that "we are just at the beginning of what will follow Qaddafi."

Also today, Secretary of State Hillary Rodham Clinton said the U.S. is "reaching out" to Libyans trying to organize a post-Qaddafi government and is "ready and prepared to offer any type of assistance."
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2011/02/27/politics/main20036923.shtml

and this:

Speaking in Cairo today, Senator John McCain, R-Ariz., and Senator Joe Lieberman, I-Conn., said that the U.S. should do more to help Libyans fighting to overthrow Qaddafi.


In an interview Sunday on CNN's "State of the Union," Lieberman pushed for more forceful action, including imposing a no-fly zone and arming Libyan rebels.

"The world has to do more," he said.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2011/02/27/politics/main20036923.shtml

I know what you're going to say - but the US have not physically put boots on the ground.  Fine BUT the UK has because as i said above british SAS soldiers were captured in the libyan desert only last week, furthermore one of them even had a note on him from David Cameron to the rebel leaders!!!!!:

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/top-stories/2011/03/08/spy-held-in-botched-sas-mission-in-libya-had-a-signed-note-from-david-cameron-115875-22973769/

the only breathtaking ignorance being displayed here is yours , you definitely can not be living on the same planet as everyone else.

Elsewhere you claim that Gaddafi has not used his airforce and airstrikes. Again, there is so much evidence that he has, you look like a fool. Videos of Libyan jets dropping bombs on Libyan targets are very hard to refute, yes?

Again you demonstrate that you have problems wiht basic comprehension, here is what i said:

did Gadaffi launch airstrikes against UNARMED PROTESTERS? the answer is no, this has since been corroborated by the Russian military who were monitoring all air activity over libya on the day that these alleged attacks were supposed to have taken place.
In addition even the US Department of Defense was forced to concede that such attacks could not be confirmed.

Secretary of Defense Robert Gates was asked recently "Do you see any evidence that he [Qaddafi] actually has fired on his own people from the air?" to which he responded by saying, "We’ve seen the press reports, but we have no confirmation of that." Admiral Mullen added, "That’s correct. We’ve seen no confirmation whatsoever."

http://www.defense.gov/transcripts/transcript.aspx?transcriptid=4777

second issue:

did gadaffi SUBSEQUENTLY launch attacks on ARMED REBELS: yes, why?  because at this point the libyan govt were no longer dealign with unarmed protesters but an armed insurrection which is classified as treason.

i know english is not our first language but read things thoroughly, let the words sink in and think before opening that giant trap you call a mouth before vomitting crap

It seems your hatred of the West clouds your judgement. Very ironic when your location shows that you are living in their house and eating from their dinner table.

What is ironic about exercising freedom of speech? every civilised nation on the earth recognises the right of freedom of speech, do you have a problem with people expressing their views? if you dont like hearing views which dont conform to your primitive and backward perspective why don't you f.ck off to some totalitarian backwater or stay in nigeria where censorship, intimidation and murder are the order of the day

Mariory:
cap28 being schooled!

morpheus24 gotta say I admire your patience.

kodewrita:
about time. enough of listening to the poor misguided troll.

In the country of the blind, a one eyed man is king!!!
Two blind mice following a one eyed fool, no wonder many of you never progress in your lives.

^^^^^
sorry mate but i dont debate with schizophrenics, i take my mental well being very seriously, but feel free to carry on this debate with the voices in your head

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

YAWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWN!!!!!

now get back to picking up some passengers schizo

morpheus24:
Oh sorry you a HISTORY PROFESSOR, . Limitations of your subject expertise, can't apply any other discipline to your discussions. ITS CALLED CRITICAL THINKING. Once it is tasking for you to decipher the questions posed to you, it is immediately written of as schizo rantings. My dear fellow I can weave every single example I have posed to you into the subject matter you so well claim to be fully versed on.

The real problem is with people like you who can't really think outside the box past your "fact gathering" prowess and finger pointing antics. You come on here and flaunt yourself as a master of subject matters and label everyone else who do not share your anxieties as blind and mental when in reality the rigorous effort involved in fully analyzing a situation in its broadest scope is taxing for you.

Right right, rubbish it is then.


Oh by the way, speaking of "other subject matters". Did you know there is a strong correlation between Schizophrenics and highly gifted/intelligent people?


Something to ponder outside the sphere of your expertise.

Hahahahaaha so you're an "intelligent" schizo eh hahahahhahaha

you are something else you know - do you know where the vast majority of schizos like yourself are? In prison or mental institutions and im beginning to think that might be where you might be typing all of this your junk from.

Its either that or you are probably one of those broken down nigerian men in america who ended up working as cab drivers after collecting a pile of worthless "qualifications" from some backwater colleges and now out of frustration you spend your time tapping out junk on your computers from the comfort of a mini cab office.

"right right" hahahahhahahaha!!!! pal you're a comedian you know, i can tell from your spelling, and poor grammar that you have never held down a job which involves the application of written or speaking skills, no right thinking employer in the west would hire you, this is why you sound so frustrated, you cant understand why despite your vast "knowledge" nobody bothers with you.

Keep deluding yourself that anything you have said up there makes sense, keep regurgitating junk you learnt on your long distance correspondence courses, keep pretending as if you have any idea whatsoever about america's foreign policy, focus on doing what you do best carry on being the grateful uncle tom who works a 24 hour backbreaking shift as a cab driver and bends over backwards kissing whitey's ar.se for being allowed to live in his country as a member of his underclass.

^^^^
keep tying yourself into knots discussing issues that have nothing to do with this thread, you are one of those people who are so insecure that when a discussion is not going your way you veer off into talking about rubbish which has nothing to do with the original topic, good luck with that, you definitely have the personality traits of a schizophrenic.

morpheus24:
First you wouldn't know what a schizophrenic looked like if you were standing right next to one so don't use terms you are not familiar with.

Second they are "skewed and biased" because you present one particular view point in relation to the issue without exploring other complex factors that go into such western stances.

If you are not a schizophrenic why expend so much energy disagreeing with me, only to later agree with the very points that you had earlier described as "skewed and biased" ?

Cause they are not as dumb as you are. they've had over200 years of practice

hahaha - why do you keep on contradicting yourself - on the one hand you say everything i have said about the US is skewed anti imperialist propaganda -now once again you confirm what i said earlier about them acting covertly and actually agree with me concluding that "they have had over 200 years of practice".  hahahaha you're funny you know.

f it serves the intended purpose. the answer is yes. What's strange to you about that? Oh yeah its the holier than tough utopia mentality.
Those questions can be framed and discussed around what a people deem to be moraly just, ethical and responsible as determined by numerous factors and historical contexts tha influence and shape these moral principles they choose to adopt. Too complex? it might help to take a philosophy class that deals with the ideas of Morality,  western origins of utililatrism, egosim and the likes.

Oh and here i was thinking that human beings all over the world  operate a  code of conduct which is universal to all peoples irrespective of race or culture, for example all peoples of every culture and racial background regard murder, theft, and r.a.pe as immoral.

now if i am to go by your warped way of reasoning the above acts may be deemed immoral to some people but moral to others "if they serve the intended purpose", so i take it you woudl have no qualms about letting your wife or daughter embark on a career in por.nogra.phy provided it served the intended purpose of making money?
pray tell are you a sociopath by any chance?

Holding the US to ethical standards is easier for you as a sideliner. In practicality you would stand puzzled if given the power and responsibility to make those decisions without facing subsequent adverse effects.

Not at all i would weigh the pros and the cons and if my decision would lead to the unecessary loss of human lives i woudl definitely not go ahead with that particual decision.
The US have been involved in numerous situations in which the loss of lives could very well have been avoided but they chose instead to disregard human lives for financial gain.

I am glad I am past these trivial racial references and childish rantings of Whitey vs blacky. They are so immature and again are sentimentality steering. They usually hold no water at the end.  You obviously want me to jump up and down and scream mother Africa and death to the non Africans as air headed dummys like you do as a consequence of your mispalced youthful anger and vigour. A more matured mind is practical and sensible in their analysis of situations involving interference and interpretation of soverign rights.

But you are still an oppressed black african man who will never be accorded the same respect or opportunities as your white counterparts, you can pretend not to be african all you want but the minute you step out of your bubble into the white man's world you are kicked back into touch with reality.

If the whiteman never stepped his foot in Africa for the next 20 years. it would not make a friggin difference what the people would do to themselves.  I could bet you a million bucks on that? Why because they haven't addressed the fundamental questions plagueing each of their societies in terms of how best to lay foundations of governance in terms of fiduciary resonsibilites to the people, settling grievances interms of power structures and establishing evolutionary progressive thinking.  The white man is not the sole owner of open minded thinking and education.

Why do you refer to africans as "they" you are african yourself, why are you ashamed of who you are, whitey laughs in your face when you try to mimic him and distance yourself from your own people, he laughs at your tragic self hatred, he will never accept you.

It is elementary to blame Whitey, don't you think?

It is tragic to hate your african self don't you think?

I dabble in many subject matters my dear fellow, history being one of them. You on the other hand cannot seem to seperate your anxieties and misguided emotional tendencies from practicall matters other than accusations of amoral attitude. You really do need that philosophy class to put your HISTORY reading in perspective.

"Dabble" being the operative word, jack of all trades but master of none, if you had an indepth knowledge of history i wouldnt need to be having this conversation with you.

In terms of the civil rights movement. An admirable achievement by the AA's but inconsequential to me as it would never make a difference to me if i never ate in a restuarant right next to White people. I would be fine sitting on a mat in a hut enjoying a meal with livestock round me if that were my reality.

But im sure it would make a huge difference to you if youd had to endure the humiliation of being told to stand up for a white person on a bus or banned from going into a white neigbourhood or white school.

Right right as so was Greece, Rome, Arabia, England. The point is?

The point is your dumb a.s.s didnt know that america is an imperialist nation.

Yawn History lesson 101. Oh yeah we silly and cap28 is enlightening us. Please continue without a point!! Why do you think? cause they hate black people cause we are inferior monkeys. Really Cap28, in this day and age you are still simplifying these issues

History 101 which your dumb a.s.s knew nothing about, learn to be grateful when your betters provide you with free tuitition.

UHHHH, is it cause they are IMPERIALIST?

You should become a history teacher, get paid to REGURGITATE what is already out there in multipy books and study materials. Maybe you can win over some simple minded 18-25 year olds like you do on this forum who simply nod their heads in agreement with you.

GROW UP!!

Dummy do  you see how stu.pid  you are, you never knew any of this did you, you never knew that america had such an appalling track record  in terms of its foreign policy thats why you stupidly concluded that america isnt an imperialist nation and has never invaded and destroyed the political and economic soveriegny of foreign nations, now that i give you one example of country which was destroyed by america, instead of showing gratitude for the knowledge i have imparted into your pea brain you PRETEND as if you knew it before.

You are a sad sad man - a typical example of a backward, ignorant nigerian full of delusions of grandeur and empty self importance, i wish i could tell you to grow a brain but its obviously too late for that, dont procreate because the less we have of your ilk on this planet the better for the world.

morpheus24:
Right right! a response attempt to legitimize your premise which is flawed at best. Your premise proposes that the West have hidden agendas regarding their interests in the middle east with particular emphasis on controlling economic activities within these countries that benefit them. Whats new about that? What  new strategies are you presenting that have not been used already and continue to be used only in different formats. You supporters call this enlightenment. I call it Hollow and a waste of time. If your mission is to INFORM, that is all well and good. If it is to INCITE and win compadres over to your thought process without a throough examination of

first of all you called my comments "anti imperialist propaganda" which were according to you  "skewed and biased" and you claimed that all the facts id come up with were flawed but then you went on to contradict this statement by  AGREEING that the US are in the middle east to further their agenda of penetrating and destabilising the region??  Do you suffer from schizophrenia?  

Because it furthers their agenda of penetrating and destabilizing the region as a means of effecting change they wish to see in those regions that would further their grip on economic control of resources they deem necessary to their survival and continued power status.( is that hard to deduce even by a comon uneducated man?)

why hide under the cloak of a fake revolution? why not topple  leaders you dont like using the old method of coup detats as was the case with mossadek of iran in 1953 and numerous other coup detats in the region?

surely the only time you use a fake revolution is when you are actually hiding your true intentions ie acting covertly?

Because oppositions(which exist by the way within countries) are willing participants in these unholy alliances as a necessary evil to gaining ground in the furtherance of their fight for power rights within their nations. You fail to mention nor analyze this relevant factor( is this harder to deduce?)

Right so i take it that you think it is perfectly fine for the US to spend millions of dollars of US tax payers money to form "unholy alliances" with opposition groups in foreign countries?
again,  despite claiming that my ealrier comments were skewed, biased anti imperialist propaganda  you are agreeing that the US govt is acting with an ulterior motive.  

Because Rwanda had nothing of economic interest to the US that would warrant a speedy intervention in saving the lifes of black Africans who PLEASE NOTE started the war by their own making in the same pursuit of power. ( Much hardest to deduce I am guessing)

So let me get this right - its okay for the US to do absolutely nothing when black africans are being killed in millions if the US have no economic interests to protect but absolutely fine to intervene with the speed of light where their economic interests are threatened.  wow you sound like you have a lot of love and respect for your fellow africans!!!

National interest dictates primary targets who are not allies of a nation. Saudi Arabia is an ally of the US as the US provides indirect protection to the mornachy from external regional aggression despite the Kingdoms atrocities. Whats new about that. ?

I am well aware that Saudi Arabia is the US's ally but my point is if the US are hypocritically claiming that they are going in to Libya on humanitarian grounds in order to remove a dictator who oppresses his own people, then they need to apply that standard across the board to all dictatorships whether they have economic interests in those countries or not, its either the US openly agrees that they prop up and support brutal dictatorships or they make a distinction and state that they only support dictatorships in which they have economic interests and which completely kow tow to their economic policies like saudi arabia.

This holier than though attitude you take in terms of governments and societies is what is baffling to me. I suggest running a country of your own and see how you would fair. I bet the world would be a utopia to you where we all shake hands and greet "Salam' to each other while we wipe each others azzes. You like to sit on the side lines and B.I.T.C.H. don't ya. What organization are you a member of? What issues to you address and on what platforms apart from opinionated forums.?

What baffles you is the fact that i am not an amoral ar.se hole like you who bows and scrapes before the white man like a bi.tch.  Your lack of self pride and dignity has reduced you to a level where you think its normal for an imperialist racist nation like the US to invade a soveriegn state under the false pretext of humanitarianism.  It is because of immoral arse.holes like you who dont give a damn about their own people that africa is in the shi.t state that its in.  Ive got news for you whitey will still treat you like a mon.key and only give you the jobs he doesnt want no matter how far you force your tongue up his ar.se.
 

If your accusations are that the US is not "fair and just" in its exercise of promoting fundamental human and democratic rights it so aspouses then thats a legitimate grievance if thats the case say so. However to continue to misguide people into perceptions that paint the US as some IMPERIALIST machine that covertly tramples on the free choice of soverign nations to choose their destiny is FOOLISH and uneducated thinking for one who appoints themselves as truth tellers.

Be quiet - it is obvious to everyone except you that the US's foreign policy stinks to high heavens, you are fortunate that african americans fought to allow the likes of you the right to eat in the same restaurant as a white person or you woudlnt even have the mouth to come on here regurgitating this nonsense.

Are  you so dumb as to say that im misguiding people?  
I know you have never picked up a history book in your life because if you had this statement would never have come out of  your hole:

"However to continue to misguide people into perceptions that paint the US as some IMPERIALIST machine that covertly tramples on the free choice of soverign nations to choose their destiny is FOOLISH and uneducated thinking for one who appoints themselves as truth tellers".

what a dumbass you are, america IS an imperialist machine dummy, why do you think its got over 700 military bases in more than 150 countries? when are you going to wake the f.ck up

Who do you think invaded vietnam, haiti, grenada, guatemala, venezuela, iraq
Who do you think sold arms and surveillance equipment to the racist regime of south africa to continue the oppression of blacks in that country?

There are several larger factors that contirbute to the overall problem each of these countries face and even if you remove the "intervention" of the US in terms of its national interests these countries problems still remain unsolvable and before you know it they are calling BIGBROTHER to come help them out in the name of HUMANITY.

Really so how come countries like haiti were destroyed by america the minute they emancipated themselves from slavery? Why did the US invade the country moret than 5 times and impose a brutal dictator on the haitian people (papa doc)?  why did the US and europe impose a 60 year trade embargoe on haiti causing its economy to collapse?  

Why did the US REMOVE democratically elected Haitian president Arisitide and DEPORT him to the democratic republic of congo because they didnt like his minimum wage and land reform programmes?

YOu think everyone is as dumb as you are dont you?

Do yourself a favour go and pick up a history book, because your ignorance is so glaring.

[quote author=21-05-2011 link=topic=612935.msg7885527#msg7885527 date=1299769908]Col. Muammar Qaddafi told the celebrants: ``After this achievement, American threats against Libya will double, The United States will make excuses, [but] the real reason is to stop this achievement, to keep the people of Libya oppressed.'' Qaddafi presented the project to the cheering crowd as a gift to the Third World.

Over the last 20 years, the water improvement projects envisioned for Egypt, which could provide more water and more hectares of agricultural and residential land, have been repeatedly sabotaged by the International Monetary Fund and World Bank, and the Anglo-American financial interests behind them.


Over 95% of Libya is desert, and the new water sources can open up thousands of hectares of irrigated farmland. At present over 80% of the country's agriculture production comes from the coastal regions, where local aquifers have been overpumped, and salt water intrusion is taking place.

The Great Man-Made River will relieve this. The water now flowing will immediately supplement supplies for domestic and industrial needs in Benghazi and Sirte. But Libyan officials plan for 80% of the overall project's flow to eventually be used for irrigating old farms, and reclaiming some desert lands.

[b]Since 20% of Libya's imports are foodstuffs, expanded water supplies are a means to greater self-sufficiency. The Great Man-Made River project and its objectives fly in the face of the water-control schemes sanctioned by the World Bank and the International Monetary Fund. These institutions have blocked work on other ``great projects'' such as the Jonglei Canal--the huge ditch that was designed as a straight channel on the upper White Nile in southern Sudan. The Jonglei Canal, which stands half-finished and abandoned at present, would have drained swamplands, aided agriculture, transportation, power resources, and health, and provided expanded flow to the Nile River all the way down to Egypt. The World Bank and the U.S. State Department are backing a ``Middle East Water Summit'' in Turkey this November, which is intended to promote only politically favored projects such as desalination plants in Saudi Arabia, and water shortages elsewhere.


London and Washington circles were apoplectic about the opening of the new Libyan water project. The London Financial Times ran criticisms of the project from Angus Henley of the London-based Middle East Economic Digest. The pipeline, he said, was ``Qaddafi's pet project. He wants to be seen as something other than the scourge of the West.'' The Financial Times called the project Qaddafi's ``pipedream,'' stating that critics may be awed by the engineering involved, [/b]``[/quote]thanks for posting this, this excerpt further highlights the reason Gadaffi has been singled out as public enemy no 1 by the west

Unlike the agents of western imperialism who run nigeria, Gadaffi is actually using the monies he generates from oil revenues to build useful infrastucture projects within Libya which actually benefit the people of Libya.

I wonder if brainwashed dimwits like morpheus who claim that any criticism of the west is merely "anti imperialist   propaganda"  will be able to work out now that the west is not actually his friend.  I wonder if a light will go on in his brain and enable him to understand that these people who he pathetically looks up to look at him with nothing but contempt and seek his downfall at every turn?

Something tells me that the answer is no.

morpheus24:
If you call regurgitation of propaganda to semi literates who have brains that are able to deduce without your help "education of clueless massess to the truth" I think you should start from primary one and learn the tenants of a well rounded learning exercise.

A learning process requires rigourous COGNITIVE CRITICAL THINKING and analysis of causes, effects, root causes, constructive criticism and solutions to issues with an ability to present and understand all the facts that are relevant to the issue. What you are offering to your "ignorant" masses  are skewed biased versions of what you want them to think they should know.

You  are simply an individual stuck in  the revolutionary "time warp" of colonial mentality and anti imperalist propagandaism. Your reasoning and methods is past its time. You would do better to beam yourself back to  the 60's when people were less informed about these "secret CIA" covert operations and underground government conspiracies you like to allude to.


Stop the MESSIAH/ Town crier mentality. THE US and CIA position is not so "covert" anymore. We know where they stand and what their usual tactics are or at least can deduce this from numerous sources of information.

WHAT"S YOUR POINT?

Your rantings confirm my worst suspicions about you - you are one of those pseudo wanna be intellectuals who mask their vast ignorance with meaningless buzzwords and empty rhetorical statements, pal i have told you before you are fooling no one but yourself.

Answer this if you can:

if the lies and deception of the western media are now out in the open and common knowledge to all and sundry - why the attempt to portray the uprisings in the middle east as a genuine revolution?

why has the US govt funnelled millions of dollars in american tax payer funds into NGO's like  freedom house, alliance of youth movement and national endowment for democracy which aided and abetted these "colour revolutions".

why the unbeleivable speed on the part of the US/UK govt to intervene in Libya on supposed humanitarian grounds when they failed to do the same thing in the case of rwanda where 1 million tutsis were barbarically massacred in a space of just one month by hutu militias?

why the demonisation of some dictators (Gadaffi) and the complete silence or ambivalence  with regard to others (the Saudi royal family, Mubarak of egypt, Ben Ali of Tunisia and the king of bahrain?)

DEMONSTRATE TO ME THAT THE WEST'S MOTIVES ARE NOW OUT IN THE OPEN FOR ALL TO SEE.

DEMONSTRATE TO ME THAT THE CIA NO LONGER OPERATES COVERTLY.

DEMONSTRATE TO ME IN PLAIN ENGLISH (not meaningless incomprehensible rhetorical statements) that "it is now common knowledge to all and sundry as to where the UK/US stand in relation to the ongoing crisis in the middle east.

In June 2010, the EU Commission and Libya signed a Memorandum of Understanding undertaking to provide EU technical assistance and cooperation for the period from 2011 to 2013. The Migration Cooperation Agenda agreed in October with Libya aims to jointly address the challenge of managing migration and protecting refugees by offering 50 million Euros in aid to stop migrants and would-be refugees transiting through Libya on their way to Europe.

Meanwhile, with the full support of the EU, Italy boasts a well-established relationship with Libya consecrated by two Protocols of technical and police cooperation dating back to December 2007 and aimed at combatting criminal organizations involved in the trafficking of human beings. A Partnership Treaty to strengthen mutual cooperation in various fields, signed on August 2008, and providing for a $5 billion compensation package putting an end to the dispute on claims arising from Italian colonialism, was made conditional upon a reinforcement of Libya's commitment to the containment of illegal immigration by sea.

so in a nutshell, Libya was promised 5 billion dollar compensation package by Italy  for past atrocities committed by italian colonialists against the libyan people on the condition that the Libyan govt continue to CONTAIN illegal african immigration by sea.

I dont blame Gadaffi - he put the interests of his people and his nation first, but as we can see from the current unfolding events was betrayed by the west who do not have permanent friends just permanent interests.

So get it right - europe merely used Gadaffi to carry out their dirty work - keeping africans out of europe, now they want to bamboozle and lie to you and pretend as if he is a deranged lunatic playing the only card he has left, no - read between the lines and you will understand how they use and dump people when they feel they are no longer of any use to them.

http://www.isn.ethz.ch/isn/Current-Affairs/ISN-Insights/Detail?lng=en&id=127134&contextid734=127134&contextid735=127131&tabid=127131127134

For those of you who didnt know, Gadaffi was PAID by the EU to arrest and imprison illegal african immigrants caught trying to cross the meditteranean in order to get into europe. 

The Europeans do not want africans in europe and they were prepared to pay Gadaffi to keep us out,  therefore i dont understand why all the venom is being reserved for him alone, many of you seem to have given the paymasters an automatic pass and concentrated all of your venom on the person who was paid to do a job - why?

While you are busy condemning him and thinking that the west are your saviours, try and remember why they are desperate to oust him, Libya is the only african oil producing nation which uses its oil revenues for the benefit of its own people as opposed to diverting huge chunks of it into the coffers of the IMF and western multinationals (like nigeria).

Meanwhile as we speak the UK is already planning on how it can get its hands on Libya's vast oil revenues:

William Hague, the Foreign Secretary, has told MPs that he is considering the case for international action to divert oil revenues into an escrow account that would be administered by the UN on behalf of the Libyan people.

The plan, similar to the oil-for-food system imposed on Saddam Hussein's Iraq after the first Gulf War, would require the UN Security Council to invoke its powers under Chapter VII of the UN charter.

Mr Hague said he was looking at the plan as part of efforts to "reduce the financial flows to the Gaddafi regime" amid fears that state oil revenues are helping to fund violence against opposition groups and civilian protesters.

I guess the UK govt couldnt even be bothered to keep up the pretense any longer,  anyone who still thinks this whole charade has anything to do with protecting the human rights of the libyan people needs to have their brain examined.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/africaandindianocean/libya/8369240/Libya-British-plans-to-strip-Gaddafi-of-oil-revenue.html

morpheus24:
@ mandingo

All throughout this entire thread, I really don't see what is NEW information regarding western powers and their dealings with Arab oil rich countries. Aint nothing being HIDDEN.

WHAT IS THE POINT if not to spew and regurgitate known facts and opinions that are in a billion text books world wide as an excercise to incite and steer emotional/sentimentalities.

After a couple of hours we are back to our old selves again engaging in the dictates of natures playground we call life,

Sssh you are not making sense as usual.

The point of threads like this is to educate and inform numerous clueless people like yourself who pretend to know whats going on but are just as clueless as mariory, shotster and other ignoramuses who actually think a genuine revolution is taking place in the middle east.

If you think that its better for people to wallow in ignorance and be misled by a duplicitous western media that sums up your level of reasoning.

The idea that telling people the truth will according to you "incite and steer emotional sensibilities" makes it clear to me that you prefer to live in blissful ignorance rather than be an educated, enlightened and informed individual, if thats the way you want to live be my guest but do not attempt to stand in the way of other people who seek to know the truth.

[quote author=pres-elect link=topic=327288.msg7879448#msg7879448 date=1299690360]@cap28, racism doesnt necessarily mean the inclusive power to execute prejudice. the mere possession of such an ideaology of racial prejudice with hatred and malice is enough to make someone a racist. wether such maliciousness is executed at all or not.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/racism

1. a belief or doctrine that inherent differences among the various human races determine cultural or individual achievement, usually involving the idea that one's own race is superior and has the right to rule others.
2. a policy, system of government, etc., based upon or fostering such a doctrine; discrimination.
3. hatred or intolerance of another race or other races.[/quote]Definition 3 applies in different ways to black and white people.  With white people it usually applies based on an inherent feeling of superiority towards black people, with black people it usually applies based on numerous bad experiences at the hands of whites.   Therefore racism can not be analysed properly without looking at the whole picture as opposed to looking at it as a concept.

The fact that a black person dislikes a white person means nothing if the white person is still able to get on with his life and not be affected by the black person's dislike .

However if the black person's dislike prevents the white person from getting a job, gaining a good education, being able to live wherever they want THEN it becomes a problem, how people feel about you is irrelevant - its what they do with their feelings that count.

Historically whites have used racism in a very harmful way towards blacks   - that is what racism is about.  It is a method of hatred backed up by the state apparatus to curtail the economic, political and psychological progression of black  people - this system is possible because of the economic and political power that whites have over blacks worldwide.

This is the crucial difference, personal dislike does not destroy peoples lives but a system of hatred implemented and institutionalised by a govt system does destroy lives.

Black people are only capable of personal dislike which is actually in reaction to years of abuse suffered at the hands of racist people,  black people are not naturally racist as we have never been in a dominant position with regard to other races of people.   You have to understand that racism is linked to power, a dominant race imposes its cultures and value ssytems on an oppressed race, in doing so the dominant race cultivates feelings of superiority towards the person he dominates, this feeling of superiority is justified by saying that he is merely "civilising" the oppressed race -which is the common justification used by europreans with regard to their oppression of blacks.

Black people are not naturally pre disposed to hate people of other races for no reason because we have historically always been oppressed by others, if you are powerless you are not in a position to imbibe feelings of superiority towards a race which exerts power over you.

the 4 stages are illustrated here again by Yuri Bezmenov in more detail:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ibTbcEAqppg

I think america and europe are at stage 3 ( crisis) -eg  2008 financial crisis, ongoing rise in unemployment, revocation of civil liberties, legalisation of surveillance on private citizens, suspension of parts of the american constitution, introduction of compulsory ID cards in the UK, creation of national DNA database (UK) and now in america an ongoing case in wisconsin where the state governor wants to abolish collective bargaining rights for  union workers - a right which was created more than 100 years ago.

you can see a gradual movement towards revocation of civil rights and a gradual move towards a totalitarian state.

^^^^^^

^^^^

just to add to that - he also says that "normalisation" is used in an ironic sense , things dont actually become normal they actually become abnormal, he says at the normalisation stage all freedoms are curtailed or completey revoked, people are stripped of their humanity and become zombies who are not allowed to think as individuals but as part of a collective - he also says dissenters are not tolerated at that stage, therefore anyone suspected or perceived as a critic of state policy is "disappeared".

^^^^^

i agree with the examples you've given, in the clip the guy goes on to mention that in the normalisation stage corporate america ie the multinational businesses merge with the state (the US govt) to form a fascist state similar to what obtained in russia after the revolution, he says at that stage dissent is completely outlawed and rights such as freedom of speech, union rights, women's rights and rights of minorities are revoked. In its place you have a fascist system.

martinosi:
Hmm hello cAP28 i been a way for a while, so are the Doubters now being converted!!! nice to see you still analysing strong as usual, !

Hey bro - good to hear from you.

no am afraid its too late to convert them they are too far gone, by the time they wake up it will be too late.

here is how a former KGB agent explains the different stages of brainwashing and their far reaching consequences:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zeMZGGQ0ERk

MandingoII:
I agree with Cap 28.

His reasoning is well document/analyzed and clearly communicated within an objective framework.

Furthermore,

It is what is HIDDEN FROM YOU that is most important.

Why is iT being hidden?

&

Who stands to gain?

moreover, why is it that America and Europe SUPPORTS DICTATORS AND HATES COUNTRIES WITH (oil/resourses) (iran/venezelua)

you may want to ask yourself is it COOL for people to SUFFER under a THIEVING Dictator for Westerns interest. If you agree that it is cool for people to suffer for your western standard of living then YOU CANNOT ARGUE on the MERIT.

Why? Because you are biased. Moreover, you are desensitized to LIFE!

and if you are desenisizted to LIFE, FUGG yours and all those of your ILK.

thanks Mandingo, but i fear that everything you have said will go over the collective heads of mariory, shotster, kobojunkie and co, you see these people can not see further than their noses.

^^^^^^
glad you can see it

Jon Bee no mind Mrs Junkie - confessions of an economic hitman IS a best selling book, the "documentary" that Mrs Junkie is referring to is actually an interview in which the author John Perkins discusses the book.

[quote author=dell_net link=topic=615127.msg7869807#msg7869807 date=1299583514]@cap28. the fact that there are some age group that have the same ideology from influence of TV.

@kodewrita who is the bogeyman?[/quote]you're right, tv is the main instrument of mass brainwashing, notice how nigerian tv is full of meaningless crap which serve merely to entertain rather than educate eg nigerian idol - copied from american idol and the british x factor, koko mansion - copied from big brother - the list goes on.

you also have nigerian modelling shows which are exact replicas of the american ones, plus numerous nigerian music channels which are immitations of mtv, bet and various other western versions - all low on intellectual content and high on entertainment.

Notice how nollywood movies are promoted because very few of them tackle real issues that nigerians should be concerned about ie high unemployment, poverty, abuse of power by politicians, injustice rather the emphasis is on pursuit of wealth or love stories, also religion is used as a safety net to cushion people's feelings of hopelessness, thats why its big business in nigeria.

The idea is to keep people blind so that they remain obedient followers.

kodewrita:
reverse propaganda by anti-american crackpots who get so riled up in hate that they ignore the local issues at stake and perpetually chase the bogeyman like adults stuck at pre-puberty. what do you expect?

instead of reverting to abuse why not come up with a coherent argument as to why you beleive this is "reverse propaganda by anti-american crackpots"?

don't keep me waiting as im dying to hear your rebuttal.

debosky:
@ cap28

Let's not get distracted, but this is simple math - 1.5 million barrels per day for 6m people compared with 2.4 million barrels per day for 120m people.

There is no chance the Libyans won't have a higher standard of living, even much more than they do at the moment.

this well worn argument is one used continuously by nigerian politicians to try and justify why the nigerian govt has failed to provide decent housing, social services, constant electricity, health care facilities and other basic amenities to its citizens despite being the world's eighth largest oil exporter.

http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0922041.html

Are you aware that in 2008 nigeria recorded a surplus of $30 billion in its excess crude account?

what did it do with all this money?

perhaps this story might throw some light on this issue:

Toward the end of 2008, about $30 billion sat in Nigeria’s Excess Crude Account, a government fund of extra revenue that exceeds what the government has budgeted from the projected price of oil.

When oil prices are high, money flows into the account, and it becomes an irresistible, unaccounted — for jackpot, especially for the largely autonomous governors of Nigeria’s 36 states, according to financial analysts and good-government groups.

[b]From $30 billion, the fund had trickled down to about $450 million by mid-2010, according to Veronica Kalema of Fitch Ratings, which late last year downgraded Nigeria’s outlook from “stable” to “negative” partly because of the vast and largely unaccounted outflow from the Excess Crude Account.

By the beginning of this year, the fund had trickled down to about $300 million, according to reports in the Nigerian media. Officials with the Finance Ministry did not respond to calls for comment this month, but about $15 billion was spent in 2010 alone, Ms. Kalema said.

Some of the vast pile of cash, perhaps $5 billion to $8 billion, has been spent on so-far unfruitful efforts to upgrade Nigeria’s feeble power output, which remains no better than that of a mid-size American city for a nation of over 150 million people, Africa’s most populous.

But the rest, some $22 billion or more, remains largely unaccounted for.

“Where the hell did the remaining $22 billion-plus go?” asked a foreign-based adviser to the Nigerian government who asked to remain anonymous because of his continuing relationship with it. “Most of the remaining $22 billion was drawn down by the state governments without any particular projects to spend it on, just on the basis of, there’s money sitting in the accounts, let’s draw it down.”

It is entirely possible that nobody has a clear picture of what has become of this vast sum after it was parceled out at meetings of the state governors.

“It’s basically free money,” said another financial consultant who has advised the Nigerian government. “Once you get it, there are no checks and balances on what happens to it.” The results, or lack of them, are visible in places like this steamy state capital at Nigeria’s southern edge. Empty grandiose shells — the unfinished hotel looks like a giant waffle cone -tower over swamps, near brand-new poured-concrete government buildings alongside ramshackle corrugated-metal-roofed shacks.

http://www.vanguardngr.com/2011/02/of-nigeria%E2%80%99s-oil-money-and-misapplication/#

so the various nigerian state govts have been unable to account for a whopping $22 billion dollars - are you still going to insist that nigeria's lack of development is due to its "huge" population?

At least Gadaffi actually used his oil revenues to provide housing, decent healthcare and various other social services.  Is it any wonder that you have nigerians escaping nigeria to go and live in Libya.

The Saudis united the disparate tribes of Arabia into a united country - taking over by force and continuing your reign by terror and killing is not my idea of a legitimate government. That they are tolerated by outsiders does not make them legitimate.

Really, how do you think the military juntas that misruled nigeria for over 27 years came to power?

Didnt OBJ, IBB and abacha operate a reign of terror? didnt they kill anyone who opposed them? 
Do you have any evidence of Gadaffi subjecting his people to a "reign of terror"?  If he were such a tyrant why did he provide funding to the ANC, the black panthers and other anti imperialist  groups?
Unlike the failed nigerian leadership he modernised Libya and improved the standard of living of his people, what did the nigerian leadership do for their people?

There is no debate about the airstrikes taking place - even the Libyans did not deny making those very airstrikes. All they have contested are the[i] targets[/i], not the timing. If you have information to the contrary, please share it.

Again, I don't buy a claim by alleged Russian satellite systems when even the Libyans have accepted they have attacked the 'rebels'

Note - the Libyan authorities make no distinction between 'unarmed' and 'armed' rebels as you think - any opposition to Ghaddafi's rule is considered a rebel.[color=Black][/color]

there are two issues here:

did Gadaffi launch airstrikes against UNARMED PROTESTERS? the answer is no, this has since been corroborated by the Russian military who were monitoring all air activity over libya on the day that these alleged attacks were supposed to have taken place.
In addition even the US Department of Defense was forced to concede that such attacks could not be confirmed.

Secretary of Defense Robert Gates was asked recently "Do you see any evidence that he [Qaddafi] actually has fired on his own people from the air?" to which he responded by saying, "We’ve seen the press reports, but we have no confirmation of that." Admiral Mullen added, "That’s correct. We’ve seen no confirmation whatsoever."

http://www.defense.gov/transcripts/transcript.aspx?transcriptid=4777

second issue:

did gadaffi SUBSEQUENTLY launch attacks on ARMED REBELS: yes, why?  because at this point the libyan govt were no longer dealign with unarmed protesters but an armed insurrection which is classified as treason.  I asked you previoulsly what would happen if armed rebels tried to overthrow the govt of the US or UK and you have not yet given me an answer.