₦airaland Forum

Je soul, nothing spoil. I know you don't mean any harm.

When i criticise america i direct my crticisms towards the US govt but lets agree to disagree about america.

Thanx for the cake though it was delicious

hilli666:
Nigerians are passive cowards that's why we have steadily condoned a system mired by corruption, coup and endemic poverty. If any of these thing were to happen in other countries they would have revolted a long time ago. We are so ethnically divided it would be hard for any one to coordinate the effort. The Igbo man will pursue his own agenda, like wise the Yoruba and Hausa. Not to mention religious divisions, the christian would refuse to revolt with the Muslims e.t.c. A revolution can only occur when there is concensus amongst all denizens. Sadly enough the same divisive principles that allowed colonialism to violation us in the rare end without lubrication, is what our leaders are now using to exploit us again. Fela summed it up best in lyrics of his song " I no wan die, papa dey for house, mama dey for house, so soldier go dey whip you u go dey look like monkey" and that was how many years ago, situations has deteriorated even more since fela's time, and we are still doing the exact same thing -- waiting for God to come down from heaven and fix our problem.

I totally agree, but it will be interesting to see what will happen in nigeria after Jonathan is sworn in and the standard of living of the average nigerian starts to rapidly plummet downwards following the implementation of the coming austerity measures. Will nigerians continue to suffer and smile as usual , or will we finally wake up from our delusional slumber and realise that if we dont fight for whats ours we will remain slaves in our own land until we die?

Pot calling kettle black - i wonder what the FGN would do if protesters were to converge in Eagle Square and start chanting away and demanding for Jonathan to step down - im sure they would come out with tea and biscuits and sit down with them for a friendly chat.

ROSSIKE:
ideylaff said:




No you DON'T know, and are simply talking through your asss.

How a nation of 6 million like Libya, 97% of which is desert, can be said to have ''more infrastructure than Nigeria'', is a total mystery to me.

Tunisia is barely the size of Lagos, as are Yemen and Bahrain. So where are the ''most of these countries with more infrastructure'' occurring apart from in your dull brain?

The fact is that Nigeria has more infrastructure than Libya, Bahrain, Tunisia and Yemen combined.

Our road network alone dwarfs that of those nations:


World rankings: Road network

Nigeria ranked: 27th

Libya 43rd

Yemen 67th

Tunisia 111th

https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/rankorder/2085rank.html?countryName=Nigeria&countryCode=ni®ionCode=af&rank=26#ni

I dont know which is more nauseating your clueless sycophancy or your pig ignorance.

9ijaMan:
Abeg go siddon. I've travelled across some of the countries you mention and the only country Nigeria is better than infrastructure-wise is Yemen. So shut it and stop peddling falsehood. So the only infrastructure that comes to you pint sized brain is road. Apparently the backward 12 years of PDP misrule has made you to lose your sense of reasoning.

Egypt is light years ahead of Nigeria when it comes to infrastructures, yet the citizens took to the street and you are here quoting CIA's world fact book haphazardly only referencing the aspect that supports your warped reasoning.

Whenever you went to make posts on online forums, always ensure you cover you tracks properly. Quoting out of context will simply expose your level of ignorance.

Thank you my brother, dont mind this fo.ol that goes into overdrive anytime you point out the glaringly obvious sorry state that nigeria is in, this individual was having a nervous breakdown the other day when i compared the sorry state of nigeria to libya saying that nigeria shoudl not be compared to Nigeria because - wait for it ! Nigeria's high population prevents nigeria's huge oil wealth from trickling down to the ordinary man on the street, i really dont know why nigeria is full of these type of st.upi.d and useless sycophants.

owobokiri:
Call me names as much as you can, at the end of the day, majority of Libyans are with Muammar. That is what the western press that most of us depend for our daily news won't tell you. It is a tribal war going on in Libya as we speak and not really a revolution as some of you are desperate to paint it. You may call it a counter revolution if you like! I know that if there is a riot in China today, some of you will take a cue from the almighty western press and call Chinese leaders all sorts of names. Yet the same Chinese leaders have produced the most robust economy on earth as we speak, they have taken hundreds of millions of people out of poverty. In fact the number of people in China who have found jobs within the last decade maybe bigger than the total population of USA with her high unemployment rate.

So does benevolent dictatorship work? The answer is YES. Gadaffi is the ONLY leader of any oil producing nation that shares MOST of all oil earnings with his people DIRECTLY . It is a fact and I bet most of you don't know this. . Libya has the most decentralized system of administration in the Arab world. It is a fact, google that. Gadaffi has ensured water security for all his people through the construction of the "man made river" which is the biggest irrigation project in the world. It is a fact , check it. He could have spent these millions fighting in support of American "cold wars" efforts like the Saudi kings and the Americans will be behind him today. But he refused and he has always been a marked man. He bombed the PAN AM flight. That is bad. But can we discuss that while mentioning numerous American attacks on Libyan ships and other interests that precipitated that?

I am not swayed by the extremely one sided reports of events in Libya. It is western propaganda at its best. Don't call me names, rather compare the number of hospitals, houses and the literacy level in Libya with either what was obtained before him or what we have in Nigeria today, then you explain to me how this "roaches and rats" in Benghazi streets can be called a revolutionaries while they fly King Idris flags. I am starting to think that Libya is the main target of these cooked up uprisings, Has Gadaffi stayed too long? Yes. Should he hand over to a new face? Maybe. But I am not ready to join you guys to kill the only man in the continent that has really fought for his people. That is the attitude of the brainwashed. When you show me a dictator or a so called democratically elected president in Africa that has distributed his countrys wealth and services to his people more than Gadaffi, I will shut up. Until then I will continue say that these youths are making a big mistake because they may end up with either a Maliki or a Karzai soon.

Thank you bro, i was having a similar debate with someone on this forum about how Gadaffi had utilised his nations oil revenues resources for his people and the individual i was debating with dismissed this on the grounds that Libya's tiny population of 6 million and vast oil wealth meant that it was easier for wealth to be distributed throughout the nation and that Nigeria a similar oil producing nation could not be compared with Libya on the basis that nigeria's population far exceeded Libya's making it harder for wealth to trickle down to the ordinary man on the street!!!!!

You are 1000% correct, Gadaffi is the only african leader who uses his nation's oil revenue for the development of his own nation, Libya is also i beleive the only african nation that has not had its economy restructured in accordance with the dictates of the IMF and this is why his people enjoy a much higher standard of living than the average nigerian living in nigeria.

If Gadaffi is toppled (and i hope he isnt) i can assure the Libyan people that what they will get in his place will be a western puppet govt which will now be controlled and dictated to by washington and london, if the Libyan people think Gadaffi is a demon, they should wait and see what life will be like under a western puppet, they should ask nigerian people how fantastic life is in our own nation.

Algerian:
Sorry bro, but I still have a hard time to imagine that there is people who are willing to absolve everything for someone just because he "CLAIMS" being against "The big Satan"!
Let's take him for his words :
[list]
[li]How can he be an anti-imperialist and be the mentor of the former Tunisia's president Ben Ali, while that same Ben Ali was the best ally of Israel, France and the USA in the region? [/li]
[li]How can he be an anti-imperialist and steal the wealth of his people?[/li]
[li]How can he be an anti-imperialist and befriend such a dispicable guy like Berlusconi?[/li]
[li]How can he talk about muslim union when he's insulting what it's the most holy for muslims (Prophets, sunna, etc.)? (By the way, Kadhafi was declared apostate by muslim scholars in various coutries)[/li]
[li]How can he claim being a revolutionary guide when he destroyed the tomb of the greatest hero of the lybian resistance against colonialism, Omar al Mokhtar?[/li]
[/list]

[center]https://i3.makcdn.com/userFiles/n/a/najwa94/images/1221592872.jpg[/center]

His people aren't that ignorant and know him better than I do or you do, so pls don't insult their intelligence!

I honestly do not beleive that you are an arab you know why?  arabs unlike black africans recognise and understand that america and europe are their mortal enemies, black africans live in blissful ignorance and look upon the white man as their friend.

Your utterances demonstrate that you belong to the latter group.

Gaddafi's problems with the west did not start today, the minute he refused to bow down before the west and allow them in to Libya to do what they wanted with his oil reserves he became public enemy no 1 and had to be dealt with.

Whether you want to accept it or not america is indeed a satanic nation intent on retaining its position in the world as an  empire, it doesnt care who it has to kill, topple or enslave in order to hold on to that position, this is why the americans are now talking about a military intervention in Libya on "humanitarian grounds". 

Do you know how many UN troops they sent to Rwanda when the genocide therer went into overdrive?  5,000 - can you beleive that the US controlled UN would only send 5,000 men to protect the rwandan tutsis despite the severe danger these people were in , as if that wasnt bad enough these troops were instructed not to take part in defending tutsis but to only secure the area!!!  Contrast that with whats happening in Libya, see how quickly they are talking about imposing a no fly zone and deploying troops to the area.

Is berlusconi the worst european politician you can think of - do you think cameron, sarkozy and other european leaders do not have skeletons in their cupboard?

Gadaffi was able to make berlusconi pay Libya billions of dollars in reparations as compensation for italy's brutal occupation of Libya in the 1920s:

Now, in an unprecedented act of contrition by a former European colonial power, Italy has formally apologized for its past injustices during its 30-year reign in Libya early last century, and agreed to pay $5 billion in reparations to Tripoli. Gaddafi promptly declared Aug 30 — the day the deal was inked in — Libyan-Italian Friendship Day.

Read more: http://www.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,1838014,00.html#ixzz1EtwtQvsJ

How many african nations have succeeded in getting their former colonials masters to pay compensation to them for years of looting of their natural resources?

JeSoul:
With all this chatter you have not said much.

Castro is an angel.

Coming from someone who argued with me for 2 pages that Abacha is hero . . .

I was going to ignore your underhanded attempt to take my words out of context in the post about Abacha but i thought it best to put you straight - first of all when quoting people always refer to the context in which those words were made - Did i start off the topic declaring Abacha a hero or did i say that Abacha was  a hero in refusing to give in to the IMF's demand that he take on crippling loans with draconian repayment conditionalities attached to them?

Please refer back to that topic and you will find that the discussion was about how Abacha refused to go along with the well known scam perpetrated by international financial institutions in which foreign countries are coerced into borrowing more money than they need in order to enrich the donor nation (the united states) whilst simultaneously leaving the recipient nation and its people with the crippling prospect of picking up the tab which continues to grow larger and larger each year because of the never ending interest repayments.  

Please can you stop misquoting me and taking my words out of context.

With regard to your comments about Castro - his achievements and assistance to all oppressed people the world over speak for themselves and there is nothing you can do to change who he is and what he represents.

It is your prerogative to educate yourself about what is really going on in the world or remain in the dark and accept the lies, distortions, ommissions and half truths fed to you courtesy of the western corporate media, i refuse to allow my mind to be hijacked by people with a hidden agenda.

America that you think is the bastion of democracy is a country that refused to allow people who look like you the right to vote, eat in the same restaurant ,use the same restroom, attend the same schools and sit down on a seat in a bus beside a white person UNTIL 1968 !!!!!!

To date all people of african descent in america suffer higher unemployment, poorer quality healthcare,education and housing than their white counterparts - so my advice to you is direct some of that hypocritical outrage towards the united states and stop demonising a man and a nation whose history you know very little about.

The fact that the nigerian govt can even release a statement in which they pompously declare that a revolution can not happen in nigeria shows just how secure they feel.

These people are well aware that the majority of nigerians have been cowed into submission and would rather run away to live as second class citizens in a foreign land than stand up and demand what is rightfully theirs in their own land.

This is why this buffoon can open his mouth and talk about a constitution and about democracy when he knows fully well that those concepts are merely meaningless buzzwords used to bamboozle and confuse weak minded people who are too afraid (or too st.upid) to confront the truth.

Of what use is it to have a constitiution which pays nothing but lip service to the tenets of a proper democracy?

Isnt it shameful and even embarrassing to say that you live in a democracy when a tiny but powerful political elite and their cronies live in opulent wealth while the vast majority of your people live in squalor, isnt it ridiculous to even consider that you are better off than nations which effectively cater for their own citizens whilst in your own case your own citizens continue to leave your country en masse to look for menial jobs in the very countries that you claim you are ahead of in terms of democracy?

Since nigeria is a democratic nation with all the attendant virtues of democracy in place what are nigerians doing running all the way from democratic nigeria to go and live and work in autocratic libya, tunisia, algeria or egypt?

People are talking about the fact that nigeria is not run by dictoators because we have elections in which we can choose to vote out people who are not performing - First of all the fact that one person has not been running nigerian since 1960 does not mean that it is not a dictatorship.  

the fact remains that nigeria has been run for 43 out of 50 years of its so called independence by the northern oligarchy, never mind about obasanjo and GEJ they are mere errand boys for the north.

Jonathan is even weaker than obasanjo and has no real power, having said that both jonathan and obasanjo have nothing positive to offer nigerians and along with their northern godfathers are mere agents of western imperialism.

Secondly what is the point of having elections when they are constantly rigged, has there ever been a time in nigeria's history that any genuine sincere person has emerged as a front runner for the presidential elections?  Hasnt it always been the same rogues gallery, wheeled out time and time again jostling with each other to see who will win the coveted prize of sinking their  paws into nigeria's oil wealth?

What good is a democracy when each year you keep living from hand to mouth?  Each year unemployment rises, standard of living plummets, schools and health services become more decrepit,  security becomes more precarious and life becomes worthless.

I just find it really hilarious that these nigerian officials can talk about the need to evacuate nigerians resident in some of these arab countries when these evacuees may probably enjoy a higher standard of living as second class citizens in those countries than they would had they remained in nigeria.

My beleif is that if the nigerian people rise up against the govt they may not be successul in removing the northern oligarchy because:

nigeria is divided along ethnic lines and no northerner will fight alongside a southerner to oust his fellow northerner no matter how corrupt.

the rebellion will not be supported by the west, our leaders have already handed nigeria lock stock and barell to the IMFand the western multinationals , if it were that nigeria was opposed to any IMF reforms or western multinational appropriating wealth from nigeria, by now a revolution would have taken off and it would have been engineered and financed from behind the scenes by america and britain, but there is no need for the west to do that, nigeria is already in the pocket of the west, any nigerians who doubt me should try and rise up in protest once Jonathan implements the coming devaluation of the naira.  You will see that any attempt by nigerians to resist the coming hardship that will follow the devalauaion of the naira will be met with a defeaning silence from the west.

Another thing that struck me about this story is the fact that the nigerian govt issued a statement saying that they deplore the disproportionate use of force to disperse protesters in the middle east - isnt that a case of the pot calling the kettle black?  Is this not the same nigerian govt that not too long ago were shooting at unarmed protesters in the niger delta region from helicopter gunships, shelling and bombing civilian homes and carrying out indiscriminate extra judicial killings, did the nigerian govt use dialogue to reason with these innocent citizens during that period?

Two weeks ago Gadaffi is said to have advised the dispossessed Palestinians to capitalise on the current revolts spreading through the middle east by massing peacefully on the borders of Israel until it (Israel) gives in to their demands.

Apparently this was his first speech since Hosni Mubarak was ousted. 

He also said:


"Fleets of boats should take Palestinians ,  and wait by the Palestinian shores until the problem is resolved," Gaddafi was shown saying on state television. "This is a time of popular revolutions."

"We need to create a problem for the world. This is not a declaration of war. This is a call for peace," he said in a speech given to mark the birthday of the Prophet Mohamed, a holy day in the Islamic calendar.

He also said: "All Arab states which have relations with Israel are cowardly regimes."

Has his call for justice for the Palestinians proved to be the catalyst that has set in motion the attempt to  topple his regime?

Did Israel fear that the Palestinians might want to capitalise on the current situation raging through the middle east and end up on the receiving end of it?

An article detailing his speech says:

[b]Gaddafi also issued a call to Muslim countries to join forces against Western powers. He said the world was divided into white, denoting the United States, Europe and their allies, and green for the Muslim world.

"The white colour has decided to get rid of the green colour," Gaddafi said. "These countries should be united against the white colour because all of these white countries are the enemies of Islam."

He said violent acts committed by Osama Bin Laden's al Qaeda network went against Islam because they killed innocent people. But he said there was a political explanation for the emergence of militant Islamists.

"Why did this movement emerge? Regardless of its behaviour, in my analysis this movement appeared in response to the American arrogance towards the Islamic nation and in response to its hegemony of the Islamic world," Gaddafi said.

"It was a response to ,  the submission of rulers in the Islamic world, the subservience of rulers in the Islamic world to this arrogance from Europe and the United States," he said.

Gaddafi has for decades challenged what he describes as Western imperialism. His oil exporting country spent years under international sanctions for seeking banned weapons and sponsoring militant groups.

These were lifted in 2004 when Gaddafi renounced his previous activities, though he still frequently deploys his colourful rhetoric against the West.[/b]


Is Gadaffi now paying the price for inciting the Palestinians to rise up against Israel as well as rallying Islamic countries to unite against their common enemy the US, britain and europe?

There are people on here ignorantly demonising him - many are blissfully unaware that he provided financial assistance to groups fighting for self-determination (such as the Palestinian Liberation Organization (PLO), the Irish Republican Army (IRA), and the African National Congress (ANC).

Mandela never forgot his generosity and helped to broker peace between him and the west following the Lockerbie allegations.

Libya has a long and tragic history with colonialism. Italy seized control in 1911, carrying out 30 years of war against a rebellious people. This culminated in the fascist regime of Benito Mussolini employing aerial bombardments, gas, concentration camps and deliberate starvation to wipe out nearly half of the population.


In the aftermath of World War II, Washington attempted to turn the country into its own platform for asserting control over the territories previously dominated by the European colonial powers. It established Wheelus Air Force Base in Libya as one of its key strategic overseas facilities and secured lucrative deals for Standard Oil and other US oil companies to loot the country’s natural resources.

The coming to power of Gaddafi and his Free Officers movement in 1969 overturned this relationship for a period.

The watchword must be: the greatest enemies of the people of Libya and the Middle East are the US and European imperialists.

Overthrowing the dictatorship is the task not of imperialism, which is prepared to pursue its domination of Libya with or without Gaddafi, but of the Libyan masses.

http://www.wsws.org/articles/2011/feb2011/pers-f24.shtml

wedapeople i understand where you are coming from however, i would like to point out to you some very important obstacles that stand in the way of the black african political and economic emancipation.

We are too divided along ethnic lines - take nigeria, it is very easy for a protest to be put down very quickly in nigeria because northern soldiers will think nothing of killing southerners, do you remember how obasanjo sent troops into Odi and Gbamaratu in the delta region, and do you remember how they reduced those two towns to a pile of rubble within days, who were these soldiers targeting? innocent unarmed, men women and children, imagine what these soldiers would do to a protesting crowd, life is as cheap as hell in nigeria, no-one gives a sh.it about their so called brothers and sisters.

We are still under mental enslavement, the average black african looks up to whitey as his lord and master, we dont even understand that we are at war with them - not necessarily a physical war (not yet anyway) but a spiritual war, many of us are so mentallly crippled that we would sooner run to defend and fight on behalf of a white man than wage war against our real oppressors.

many african nations are not soveriegn nations, we have tin pot puppet leaders who are agents of western imperialism, these people are kept in place by our oppressors, a lot of africans have gullibly bought into this idea that these types of leaders will deliver them out of poverty, economic enslavement to the western financial institutions, and infinite and unrelenting poverty.

My answer to them is ask the people of Haiti, nicaragua, Mexico, Chile and all other repressive regimes where tin pot dictators run countries, you will find the same trend of poverty, repression, and control by western interests. In order to overthrow these corrupt system we have to be ready to face down not onlly the bullets from the tinpot leaders and their soldiers but also the subsequent economic isolation that will come once the west realise that they can no longer control us - do we have the courage to take on such a herculean task?

There are many countries who have walked along this worn path and failed woefully

Can we succeed where many others more courageous than us failed ie Haiti, Nicaragua, Vietnam.

Even the black South africans fought courageously to rid themselves of the white supremacist power structure and still lost - today the economy of south africa remains in the hands of the same white racists

I know you talked about solutions but before you resolve a problem you must first of all understand the root of the problem . We africans have got to get rid of the above main problems as they are crippling us and preventing any meaningful development.

Kenyy:
FACT ON LIBYAN’s REVOLT
Do you know Libyans are not revolting against al-Qaddafi because of poverty and unemployment but dictatorship! Now the question is, which is better:
1. DEMOCRACY=POVERTY + UNEMPLOYMENT (Nigeria with Chief Goodluck Jonathan as her LEADER/RULER)
2. AUTOCRACY= PROSPERITY + EMPLOYMENT (Libya with Colonel Muammar al-Qaddafi as her LEADER/RULER)

You got it wrong, nigeria's situation is: kleptocratic autocracy = poverty and enslavement to the IMF and Shell, Chevron, Exxon Mobil

Nigeria has never had a democratic system of govt - it operates a criminal kleptocracy which is a criminal partnership run by the northern oligarchy in collaboration with Shell -challenge this criminal partnership at your own peril!!!!

Libya operates an islamic socialist state run under the total control of Gadaffi, however it has succeeded in modernising the country, educating its people and feeding its populace - nigeria on the other hand has impoverished its people, stolen its nations oil revenues, and massacred any of its people who have spoken out against all these things.

DeeJay20:
Hiya Cap28, good to see you contributing strongly here, and i happy to see other posters dropping
critical posts and not just blabbing,

I read an article by a "Top American Military Officer" on the changes taking place in the world
it was written i believe in 1997 , dude!!! i was so in awe and had to read it 5 times to finally digest
what this dude was saying!

CAP28 brace yourself, prepare yourself, this is going is  profound but it all makes logical sense,

here is the link,

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article3011.htm


To further support the views on the issue at hand,

Hmmm see below an interview for 5 Minutes from a former British MI5 (Spy officer)

She knows whats going on, i guess all her dirty work has had
it effect on her [b]teeth [/b]lol!!!

[flash=200,200]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RsMQDdR0HoU[/flash]

Bro, thanks for posting that, i just watched the RT link  interesting, im suprised that the  british intelligence agent was willing to openly admit that britain has been responsible for subverting and in numerous cases overthrowing regimes that refuse to co-operate with the UK.

The reason i don't entirely trust everything that she is saying in the interview is the fact that she blames Libya for the Lockerbie bombing, i will post you some info on that bombing, who was really behind it  and why Libya was implicated, it will make you sick to the stomach, but read this article by a british MP who knew the truth about Lockerbie and make up your own mind:

http://news.scotsman.com/comment/Tam-Dalyell-Lockerbie-papers-may.5575560.jp

The documentation on the Lockerbie bombing investigation is protected by what is known as a public immunity certificate FOR LIFE which means that the contents of  THESE DOCUMENTS WILL NEVER BE DISCLOSED TO THE PUBLIC.

If the British and american govts hands are clean what are they hiding?

Here is what british mp Tam Dalyell had to say about the permanent ban on the disclosure of documentation surrounding the Lockerbie incident:

In my view, what Mr Miliband does not want revealed is the calculated wickedness of the US government and the collusion of certain parts of Whitehall in scapegoating Libya and Mr Megrahi for the heinous crime of bringing an airliner down over Lockerbie on 21 December 1988.

There is a danger now that we will never know the truth about what happened.

It is a fact that $10 million was paid to a Palestinian group by the Iranians on 23 December, 1988.

The Iranian interior minister had promised that the sky would rain with blood after the shooting down of a passenger aeroplane by the US navy.


Think about what he means when he says "there will always be the suspicion that the US made a Faustian pact with Iran".

On the whole i think the intelligence agent in your clip was being very diplomatic, she didnt give away too much,  of course britain has been trying to get rid of Gadaffi for years, of course britain has been providing political asylum to individuals who have tried to oust Gadaffi, of course britain is stil invovled in covert activities in collusion with these traitors to try and remove Gaddaffi, these people are more than likely behind this current crisis in Libya.

tyson55:
Me think Gaddafi was on crack when he went on air yestarday. Why else would a leader call his people "raoches & rats" and threaten to kill them all who opposes him. My biggest dissapointent of all is Saif al-islam ranting on Libyain state tv, he was clueless and seems to rabbling over and over. This was a guy who the west thought was a reformist, a guy who was well educated, he attended and graduated from the prestigius London school of Economics.

Please listen to the content of Saif's speech and look at his body language here, stop buying in to western controlled propaganda, please!!!:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eL6I5hktEs0

DeeJay20:
O.K Dude, i guess i need to give you one liners on each point i have put
in Bold in regards to your counter-arguement,

Answer to Point 1 - Triggers [/b]that provoke dis-tablisation in regimes, States & Govt are easy to exploit when you have been looking for an opening for a long time, [b]"The hidden hand is always at work",

Answer to Point 2 - You are living in koo-koo Land, all Protest, Uprisings and demonstrations, have "Planners", "Funders", "Leaders", "Patsies" & and "Scape-goats". The protesters had backers and planners who directed them,
even the "Alternative media in Europe/USA" are SHOUTING THIS at the top of their Lungs!!!

Answer to Point 3 - How are they backing this, Oh this is the beauty of the
Institutional System of Amerrika! Amerrika is influenced and run by
NGO's ie "Think tanks thru Policy Formation", the ones holding the real power always stay in the shadows, its the beauty of the amerrican way,

Answer to Point 4 - In America we operate by a saying which was said very well
by a retired WWF Wresler (Ted DiBiase)  "Every-Body has an Invisible Price-Tag on his Fore-Head", American rules by Influence PERIOD! NEVER UNDER-ESTIMATE THIS POWER!!!

Answer to Point 5 - Please look at Point 4 and think very well, and remember the saying of the Little Asian Kid in the film Indian Jones and the Temple of Doom "COVER YOUR HEART INDIE! DR JONES COVER your HEART! HIS GONNA GO FOR YOUR HEART"!!!

Answer to Point 6 - THIS IS AN IMPORTANT POINT THAT PEOPLE WHO ORIGINALLY COME FROM THE "SO CALLED THIRD WORLD" SHOULD NOTE VERY WELL - WESTERN EUROPEANS/NORTH AMERICANS DO NOT AND I REPEAT. DO NOT OPERATE ON LUCK!!! THEY ARE COLD, SHARP AND CALCULATIVE, IF U DONT KNOW THIS THEN U R ALWAYS GONNA BE A SUCKER WHEN DEALING IN INTERNATIONAL ISSUES,


Answer to Point 7 - My final comment is what will be the "golden goal" of
providence: SAUDI ARABIA!!! IF THE PROTEST DO NOT TOUCH THIS COUNTRY THEN WE ALL CAN NOT ARGUE WITH WHO IS OR IS NOT BEHIND THIS!!

PLEASE CAN U GIVE ME A PROJECTED DATA WHEN YOU THINK THE HOUSE OF SAUD WILL BE OVERTHROWN BY A POPULAR UP-RISING

ITS BEEN OVER 66 YEARS NOW SINCE AMERICA CUT A SECRET DEAL WITH THEM, ERMM CAN YOU SHED SOME LIGHT ON THIS?

Deejay i thank God there are people like you on this forum.

America and Britain did not become empires by playing by the rules - skullduggery, deceit, saying one thing while meaning the opposite are traits which are characteristic of the  british and american ruling elite who are determined to stop at nothing in order to ensure that they retain their grip on the world's wealth.  The powers that be in whitehall and washington are behind these revolutions, i am as certain of this as the fact that night follows day.

The point you raised about Saudi arabia is very important - will any uprising occur there? i think we both know the answer to that.  The Saudi Royal family have billions of dollars of investments in the US, they are close friends and business associates with the Bush family, the Clintons and many other senior members of the american political elite.

The idea that Gadaffi is worse than those sycopathic murdererers is ludicrous, I pray that Gadaffi continues to stand strong and defy their evil machinations.

They say that you reap what you sow, i hope i willl be alive to see the day when america and britain will pay for the trail of misery and destruction that they have left in their wake all over the world.

lastpage:
Once again, l am appalled by the level of reasoning of many people on NL!
CAN WE JUST LOOK BEYOND THE SURFACE?
We should not risk coming across as being daft and gullible that we will just swallow ANYTHING, hook, line and sinker!

I apologize if l come across as "rude" (which is generally not my demeanor) but l hope anyone will understand that right now, I AM ANGRY!

WHY?
First: Lets put these whole "REVOLUTION" into context.
1.) It started in Tunisia, got copied in Egypt, Yemen, Bahrain, Lebanon, (cooking in Syria, Iran) then Libya.
2.) These are ALL Arabic/Muslim countries and we cant pretend we dont know their traditional/cultural/moral collisions with the West.
3.)Apart from Tunisia which was "spontaneous", all other ones are "instigated, propagated, support and even financed" from outside (The U.S announced 2weeks ago or so, it is increasing the amount of money it sets aside to support "activist" (another word for dissidents, saboteurs and foreign agents used to internally destabilize a country) by $30Million. ASK YOURSELF, HOW AND WHAT EXACTLY DO THEY DO WITH THESE MONEY?

4.) if there is "DISCONTENT" with a government in the West (just like we have with Obama V.s the Tea Party recently) do the people "violently overthrow" the government? Do other people finance (or have the right to) finance citizens who are against the current government OR do they wait till the next election to VOTE THEM OUT?
Recent Tuition fee increase in the U.K caused a lot of massive demonstration (and we say it all on T.V), did Nigerian or Egyptian or Russian government "comment, incite or encourage" the protesters? (even some of them were arrested and charged to court for criminal offenses). Why is it different when it comes to "Africans or Muslim countries"? Is it one law for them and another for the Western countries?

5.) Does anyone not know that there have been recent issues between U.K/U.S and Libya, especially with the Libyan, Lockerbie Bomber who was freed so U.K can exploit Libya's oil and then turn around to demand he be returned? What do you think this kind of people will do, at the slightest sign of a "crack" in the polity?
6.)On the issue "BLACK MERCENARIES"; Before now, we are aware that "White/fair-skinned North Africans (including Sudanese in central Africa, reason they recently voted to divide the country!) have a very deep dislike for Black/dark skinned citizens of their countries? Are we not aware that they have these "misplaced superiority complex" and think the darker ones are "lesser humans"? Do we not "experience" the same thing even in Nigeria, with our North-South dichotomy? How much more in North Africa? So, who best to blame for "inhumanity" than the same "black people"?

6.) There have been "stories" of massive human rights violation in Libya. We've heard that "Fighter Jets and Helicopter Gunships" have been used to attack the population. Is this a fact, propaganda or fiction?
Anyone who watched the "Shock and Awe" bombing of Iraq during the invasion will easily see the deceit in all these stories.
These "machines" dont kill in twos or threes, they kill in hundreds and to imagine that they are used on a "street with thousands of Protesters", then the death toll will equally be in the thousands! but so far, we have a tally of just over 200+, after about 3days of "bombing"! LKWMD

The Libyan authority has said it only "bombed/destroyed/neutralized" military depots [b]that were ransacked by looters so that the arms and ammunition there-in, would not be put to use against their own security agents.[/b] They did not target civilians or any human! But inorder to garner public sympathy, they chose to manipulate the truth, and we all swallow it too?!

7.) Ask yourself, where is all these "news" coming from? Are these sources credible? How come we did not see any VIDEO FOOTAGE of a Jet fighter "IN THE ACT" of bombing people (even if its from a mobile phone). How come its ONLY DEFECTORS that are telling us these "unsubstantiated stories"?

8.) Again, why did the U.K foreign Secretary "set up rumors" that the Libyan Gadafi has ran away from Libya, to Venezeula? Is it not to give a feeling of "fait accompli", that the revolution has succeeded? But The Man himself came out to tell us, l dey kampe  Even the Venezeulan govt has denied that farce! What was his interest and that of Britain in this matter, that he had to go that far?

9.) Looking at the picture of the "captured mercenary", do they look like YOU AND ME (being black Africans) or is this just another attempt to "colour me bad", since l am black?
Why are they "emphasizing" the "blackness" of that mercenary? Does Ghadafi have a history of likeness for dark-skinned Africans? NO!
How then can it now be the same set of people that are his mercenaries? Do we not know that Ghadafi has all sorts of trained, private security force (some are even Israelis, female, e.t.c , and can anyone recall the retinue of security men/women, that he brought to Nigeria, just a while ago?).

10.) The government has been accused of severing ALL COMMUNICATION LINKS yet "foreign-based commentators" keep telling us of how they called their family members in Libya, from the U.S and elsewhere, using normal phone-lines? Very contradictory and indicative of a massive propaganda!
Why was the U.S and E.U countries "first, more concerned with whether the new government after the revolution in Egypt, will be friendly towards Israel or not"? Does it not show us that its all about "selfish interest" and not "democracy and freedom" as the West claim?


11)Again, can we not see that "opportunist and traitors" are at work in these North African Revolutions? How on earth can you explain Ambassadors who are selected and posted to foreign countries by Ghadafi, to foreign lands, for years, without complain, suddenly turning against him from such foreign posts YET refusing to RESIGN!
Why did they not "speak-out" before now or when Tunisia was boiling?
Why is it now that they sense an opportunity, that Ghadafi's regime is gasping for breath?
Are these the kind of people that will now call themselves "revolutionist" so they can benefit from whats going on?(and they are all just posturing to grab political offices!)
I detest cowards, traitors, opportunist and turn-coats!
How do you explain all these "foreign-based government officials suddenly stabbing their own government in the back?
Just because they now see where the "wind is blowing"?
You cannot criticize a government that you're a part of (at least until the "People" took to the street). You should resign first and then tackle the government. This is what "fair-play and equity" demands

11.) Why did we not hear of "BLACK SECURITY" people in Libya, all these years, where did they suddenly spring from?
Did Ghadafi ferry them from Nigeria all of a sudden or are they Boko Harram

12.) Again, has anyone noticed the "difference in rhetoric" from countries in the E.U and U.S, when they speak about the "protest" in Libya and then in Bahrain! How come the tone is "subtle and reconciliatory" when it concerns Bahrain but very inflammatory, provocative and inciting when it comes to Libya?  (Both are ruled by dictators and sit-tights BUT one contains a U.S Naval strategic base (sixth fleet) and the other has no visible U.S interest!).
In fact, it was Bahrain that sent armed forces to attack protesters, while they were sleeping at the Square, in the night, using live ammunitions but THEY PLAYED IT DOWN IN THE MEDIA, no wonder Ghadafi referred to these media as "Dog Media"!

13.)Again, let us not forget that Libya itself is NOT a homogeneous entity like Egypt. They are just like Nigeria (with a seething undercurrent of civil war between Northern Libya (Tripoli) and Southern Libya (Benghazi areas). Some are taking these "protest" as an opportunity to "divide and secede" from the country. Some of them are very light-skinned while others are of a darker shade BUT THEY ARE ALL LIBYANS!
Some are just trying to 'inject' the ethnic/race/color angle into these protest, so as to gain more momentum.

14.) What happened in Tunisia and even right now in Libya is no different from what happened (is happening now in Belarus), the sit-tight President has rigged elections, killed oppositions and jailed others BUT the E.U or U.S is NOT promoting "chaos/revolution" over there!
They know better, that one is Europe naah!

While l do not favor dictatorship, while l am 100% for freedom, democracy and rule of law, l think there is a "deeper design" than what goes on in the surface. The common man has been used as a "canon-fodder" for too long!
This is the current focus of this rejoinder.

In summary,
*Let us not jump to conclusions.
*Let us "see the big picture" and put hings in perspective.
*Let us not fall for any manipulation by vested interests.
*Let us be 'hasty' to listen but very 'reluctant/slow' to speak/comment!
*Let us be wary of "Western Media" and be able to sift through some of the propaganda they sometime feed us. Remember, you 're only as informed as what you hear or read about!
*Let us be wary of those who promote "chaos" in our country (to resolve legitimate problems) but who themselves will never use such method but will  rather resort to democratic and legal means. At the end of the day, we would have o live and pay for whatever damage we cause to ourselves!
*Let us educate people from the West that "Africa" is a "continent" (not one country), made up of as many as 54 countries and counting. They should stop referring to one

BTW: I am neither Muslim, anti-West or a Libyan
I just choose to  look at issues from a dispassionate point of view.

Thanks for being the voice of reason, i would advise you to google "colour revolutions and George Soros" these middle eastern "revolutions" will then start making a lot more sense to you.

I dont know if you remember when the Haitian president Jean Bertrand Aristide stood for and won the presidential elections in his country by a landslide in 2004?  Do you know what the US govt did to him? They DEPORTED HIM TO THE DEMOCRATIC REPUBLIC OF CONGO - why? because he promised his people that he would introduce a minimum wage and start a land redistribution programme which would have dispossessed major US multinationals of large tracts of land that they had stolen from the Haitian people.  Now this same criminal cabal are turning around to tell you that they want Gaddaffi out so that they can replace him with a democratically elected president - is that not an insult to the intelligence of any right thinking human being? Listen bro, you dont get any more democractic and grass roots orientated than Jean Bertand of Haiti, but what did the criminal cabal that runs the US govt do to him? - they bullied, frustrated intimidated and finally deported this man FROM HIS OWN COUNTRY AND DUMPED HIM IN A FOREIGN LAND.  Now these same criminal scum are preaching to you about the values of democracy in Libya - does it make sense to you?

If it was okay for america to order the murder of Patrice Lumumba of the DRC and replace him with a mass murderer (Mobutu Sese Seko)  who stayed in power for almost 40 years why are they suddenly developing a conscience now with Gaddaffi?

Could it be because Gaddaffi is sitting on billions of dollars worth of oil wells just as Saddam was, lets face it the US economy is in tatters, the dollar is on its last legs, China is about to overtake them as an economic superpower, and they know this, the US empire is on the verge of economic collapse, what does a drowing man do when he realises that his days are numbered?  Go figure.

Since the "revolutions" in the middle east have been so successful , perhaps they could be replicated in africa, i would recommend that the people of Cameroun rise up and overthrow Paul Biya who has been in power since 1982, the Burkinabe people should also consider giving Blaise Campaore the boot,  after all he's been in power since 1987 (after overthrowing and murdering his supposed best friend Thomas Sankara), I also hope Omar Bongo's son Ali Bongo of Gabon who recently  took over the reins of power from his father following his death after 42 years in office is sleeping with one eye open at night   - or could it be that they are regarded as "good" dictators as opposed to "evil" ones.

What is it that Gadaffi is doing that the Saudi royal family is not doing, and why is it that this "revolution" has not extended to that region?

How come the west were mysteriously silent during Babangida's murderous and tyrannical tenure in office?

When people rose up against the June 12 annullment - where was the west?  why didnt they step in and give you the media coverage, the unlimited air time on a vast array of foreign tv stations?  why werent they crying on your behalf about the way IBB had blatantly refused to abide by the rule of law and implement the people's mandate? why werent they crying on your behalf about how IBB had reduced you to a state of penury? where were they when people were killed on the streets and mauled by security forces in 1993? Why did they snub MKO when he ran to London to try and garner support for his agenda, why was he ignored and told to go back to nigeria and sort out his problems with IBB?

As the great Fela Anikulapo Kuti said in one of his songs - I just dey look and laugh, shebi they have put forward their proposal to Jonathan to devalue the naira so that they can continue to ra.pe and pillage you by buying your oil at rock bottom prices, please remember not to weep and wail when Jonathan hits you with another round of eye watering austerity measures. 

Ask yourselves this question - if the west cared about the well being of the average nigerian why would US controlled IMF advise your govt to devalue your naira knowing full well that in doing so it would result in an INCREASE IN FOOD PRICES, MORE UNEMPLOYMENT, AND FURTHER CUTS IN PUBLIC SPENDING

shotster50:
@ cap28,

In as much as sometimes I sympathise with your anti American, Anti Western posts, but there has to be a limit, surely you of all people should know that Libya has one of the most evil dictators ever?!! You simply cannot justify Ghadaffi's actions. I find it appaling that you are pointing fingers at America!! Do you mean to say that Libyans do not have the right to sack that despot?

Bro Gadaffi is not one of the most evil dictators in the world,  as a matter of fact i would never use the adjective "evil" to describe him, you might want to try the Saudi Royal Family that carry out public beheadings, amputations and stonings and  are involved in extraordinary rendition with US approval (torturing of political prisoners deported from the US).

He is merely a scapegoat.  

America has been cosying up to some of the most brutal dictators and mass murderers  for as long as i can remember As long as those dictators  implemented neo liberal economic policies which favoured american multinationals then everythign was okay, however, the minute these dictators moved away from this and began to implement policies which favoured the poor ie land redistribution, imposition of a minimum wage, increased public spending on public services like schools, health care facilities etc they became a problem.  

Here are just a few of america's dictator pals: Pinochet of Chile, mass murderer and kleptocrat
Pol Pot of Cambodia - mass murderer  (who slaughtered millions of his own people including women and children)
Mobutu Sese Seko of Zaire - mass murderer and kleptocrat
Sadam Hussein - mass murderer was a close ally to the US until he invaded Kuwait and  tried to start exporting  oil using euros instead of the reserve currency of dollars
Suharto of Indonesia - mass murderer and kleptocrat

ROSSIKE:
cap28 said:

Ask the thousands of Libyans who've escaped the country for decades and are now demonstrating across Europe and America against Gadaffi why they want him to go. Apologist for oppression. I bet if Gadaffi were black you would condemn him with every fibre of your body. Ode oshi.

Dude, we know you're a slave to Gadaffi, and no, you cannot praise him for feeding 6 million people with 4/5ths of Nigeria's earnings. Doing that amounts to gross stup.idty on your part.

It goes without saying that the more mouths you have to feed in a developing country, the longer it will take to satisfy everyone. Now if we were just 6 million like in Libya, we wouldn't be having this discussion would we? We would all be in Abuja enjoying.


Yawwwwwwn. Far more oil wealth ''trickles down'' to the Nigerian population than you wish to admit. Where did the money come to build the thousands of kilometres of roads we have, the over 100 universities? The thousands of schools? The middle class numbering over 40 million? Why is Nigeria the largest telecoms market in Africa? Why has it got the biggest online community in Africa if as you say, ''we are all suffering and starving'' with 99% living on ''less than a dollar a day''? Why are we building at least 5 mono rails and light rail projects in Nigerian cities right now? Why do we have the world's fastest growing construction industry today?  Do you know what that means for employment prospects and the economy as a whole going forward?

http://allafrica.com/stories/200911130010.html


You really need to bugger off with your negativity. We are not where we want to be. Doesn't mean we have achieved nothing, or not doing anything to move forward. That your life is a failure does not mean others are similarly cursed.


Yawwwwn,  the vast majority of Nigerians do not live in slums, are not suffering grinding poverty, and are not threatened by armed robbers. If a Libyan were to enter Nigeria with money to invest, he would live a better, freer life than he ever did in Libya.

Why is Nigeria filled with Lebanese, Chinese, Indians, Germans, and other foreigners? If Libyans can't make it to Nigeria, it's because they are not empowered enough and lack the economic clout and versatility to invest overseas, courtesy of Gadaffi's iron-fisted misrule. By contrast, Nigerians are investing as far afield as South Africa, opening banks and insurance firms in Ghana, Kenya, Botswana. Our film industry is the world's second largest and set to grow even further, employing millions of people. Our music and entertainment industry rules Africa and is spreading like wildfire further afield. We have the largest and most highly educated middle class in Africa. We manufacture cars, buses, and SUVs (Innoson). What does Libya actually manufacture? Who are their leading lights in industry? The arts? The sciences? In Nigeria we can reel off such names, all day long. The only Libyan anyone knows is Muammar Gaddafi.

Thank God I'm a Nigerian.

With all these glowing acheivements why is it that the average nigerian is ready to sell their own mother in order to get a visa to leave nigeria and come to the west?

I would really love to know why thousands of nigerians queue up on a daily basis at foreign embassies in abuja pleading, begging and crying to get the hell out of this place overflowing with milk and honey, are they suffering from a severe mental impairment or is it you who is the raving lunatic who has taken up permanent residence in cloud cuckoo land?

The foreign expatriates who live in nigeria do not live like the average nigerian, they earn ten times the salary of an average nigerian, live in gated communities away from average nigerians, are driven to work in airconditioned cars followed by armed guards and there only contact with nigerians is in the workplace usually in a boss - employee relationship so your attempt at trying to make nigeria look like some sort of magnet for all nationalities of people is nothing but a pathetic distortion of the truth.  No expatriate woudl ever chose to live in nigeria over a western nation unless they were getting paid a buckket load of money and that is the only reason why they are there.  You are too st.up.id and delusional to understand that you are being taken for a very long ride - i am now beginnign to see why europeans regard africans with contempt.

My life is far from being a failure, i have had the opportunity to acheive all the goals that i set for myself, i have also been lucky enough to be in a career which allows me to travel the world and see and experience different cultures and lifestyles, it is for that reason that i am able to comment objectively about political and cultural issues in different countries.  Unlike you i refuse to shut my eyes to the reality of what is really going on in the world.

YOu can't handle the truth this is why you resort to abuse, you sound very very unhappy and you project your misery out into your posts. The more you rant the more unhinged and miserable you sound, i feel nothing but pity for you.

ROSSIKE:
So in your warped mind it is ok to live in a society where you cannot speak out, assemble with your peers, or criticize the govt, or risk death to self and family, so long as you have food on your table? Do you know you actually sound very corrupt?

Boy i never knew people as flat out stupid as you existed on this planet, if you could take a minute to get your "brain" to work you would ask yourself one simple question: if Gadaffi were such a demon how come he has been able to remain in power all these years?  surely if he is this hated by his people it would have been easy to get someone to remove him, why now? why has this "revolution" sprung up at this particular point in time?

Being a complete simpleton you fail to hold your own leaders to the same standard of accountability that you hold Gadaffi - you pathetically let nigerian leaders off the hook giving the pathetic excuse for nigeria's failure as being down to its huge population and then like the st.upid fool you are you then castigate a man who has done more for his people than your own leaders will ever do in ten lifetimes.

Take a minute out to listen to your pathetic excuse for the failure of nigeria's leadership - "its our huge population" - and you still dont think that you are the one who is dense!!!!!

Look at how your own barbaric dictators have been  content to sit by and watch their own citizens live in abject poverty, they havent even attempted to solve the basics, and then you open your hole to criticise a man who has acheived more in 42 years than more than 10 nigerian supposed leaders over a 50 year period!!!!

Even a cretin with the IQ of a brick wall can do what he did. It's hardly rocket science to share billions in oil money among 6 million people enough for no one to starve. When will you get this vital point or are you truly dense?

But i would sooner have this conversation with that brick wall rather than you because i would get more sense out of it.  If it is so easy to share billions of dollars in oil revenue with 6 million people, why is it that despite recording surpluses and oil windfalls the nigerian govt  finds it virtually impossible to allow even 1% of its oil revenue to trickle down to the nigerian populace?

I can't really see the basis for any comparison at all between Nigeria and Libya. The two countries are as different as it is possible to be.

Thats because you are a brainwashed simpleton, and i am tired of trying to explain the similiarities to you.

You need to take their outrage as a lesson, ie that food, drink and free education are nowhere near enough to keep a population content in the absence of basic civil rights and political freedoms, a situation which makes their country a hell hole for them.

Is that so, perhaps the Libyans need to start relocating to  nigeria en masse just to see how unimportant, food, free education and health care, is im sure they'll be bowled over by the sight of rat infested slums, death trap roads, armed robbers, substandard schools and hospitals and grinding poverty.  Im sure after all of that they'll leave no stone unturned in order to obtain nigerian citizenship, so that they too can enjoy the freedom of speech that many nigerians take forgranted!!!!! wow you sound as if you're just recovering from a lobotomy!!!

ROSSIKE:
cap28 said:

Dude, please engage your brains before you type. What is Libya's population? Is it not 6 million?

That's less than 1/4 the population of Lagos. And they have and export more oil than 150 million strong Nigeria.

WHY THE HELL WILL THEY NOT HAVE A GOVT WHO has ''provided more for them than any govt in Nigeria has done for its people''?

If we were to say all the federal money goes to Abuja from today, will Abuja not turn into a Dubai??

Some of you really come across as dense, honestly. You don't think before making these your daft comparisons.

Meanwhile. despite this vast oil money for such a tiny population, you still have MILLIONS of people in Libya suffering in poverty and unemployment. Considering their tiny population, Libya has actually done FAR WORSE than Nigeria in improving the lives of its people. By right, every Libyan should be living in a mansion and driving a merc. The person who says Gadaffi has not stolen billions is a clueless goat.

Gadaffi owns TENS OF BILLIONS OF DOLLARS, perhaps even more than Mubarak's reported $70 billion.

Gadaffi now is ordering his troops to KILL protesters after vowing a ''violent and thunderous response'' to their protests for freedom. (At least 400 killed in the last 2 days)

Libya is a place with no freedom of speech. The place is swarming with secret police. Unexplained disappearances of critics are common. Torture and murder of political opponents are the order of the day. Newspapers are heavily censored.  Freedom of assembly, zero. Political prisoners number in their tens of thousands. All this for 42 straight years!

Fact is the Libyans are virtual slaves on their soil. That is why they are revolting and risking their lives. Nigerians, for all their economic problems, have the right of speech, the right to criticize their govt, to demonstrate without getting shot, to go to court, to vote, to challenge electoral decisions etc etc. They will therefore NOT take to the streets in their millions because society has avenues for expressing discontent without recourse to such mass action.

People like you make me sick, always making excuses for the sorry state that nigeria is in, this excuse you have given is the same one made by Obasanjo when asked by the foreign press why 70% of nigerians live on less than $1 a day despite the fact that nigeria is the 8th largest exporter of oil in the world.

Are you not ashamed of yourself for peddling the pathetic lie that Libya exports more oil than nigeria - and you have the nerve to call me dense - let me say it again - NIGERIA IS THE EIGHT LARGEST EXPORTER OF OIL WORLDWIDE AHEAD OF LIBYA:
http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0922041.html

Look at the s.tupid excuse you are givign for nigeria's underdevelopment - high population - are you an i.diot (dont answer that cos i already know the answer)
If high population density translates into inability to provide constant electricity, proper infrastructure, good standard of health care and education then China with a population of 1.5 billiion should have condemned its citizens to the stone age and India with a population of just over a billion should have condemned at least half of its population to destitution and starvation , and yet despite these countries lack of natural resources  they have still been able to provide a standard of living to their citizens that puts nigeria to shame  - why is that?  Life expectancy for a man or woman in India is 69 years while in nigeria it is 46, why is that the case?  Your argument is completely senseless.

Nigeria makes on average $50billion in oil revenue annually, this is excluding profits that it has received from recent  oil windfalls, as at october 2010, nigeria was even able to record a current account surplus - 80% of this revenue is controlled by the federal govt and yet less than 1% of it trickles down to the nigerian populace and you have the nerve to open your cakehole and talk about our large population.
People who reason like you are a disgrace to nigeria, you come on here spouting this garbage pretending as if you know what you are talking about but the bottom line is you might as well be in a coma.

So libya is a place without freedom of speech, thats funny last time i checked nigeria wasnt exactly a bastion of democracy and respect for human rights.

Isnt this the same nigeria in which peaceful protesters in the niger delta were ra.ped. gunned down and brutalised by the nigerian army under instructions from OBJ in 1999, isnt this the same place where Ken Saro Wiwa was executed extra judicially for daring to challenge the nigerian govt in cahoots with a western multinational, isnt this the same place where Dele Giwa was blown up with a letter bomb for daring to expose IBB and his criminal cabal, isnt this the same place where Fela Anikulapo Kuti had his house burnt, his wives rap.ed and his mother killed for daring to speak out against the atrocities committed by the corrupt and brutal govt of nigeria.

Is the nigerian media uncensored ? you make me laugh. Which nigerian journalist in their right mind publishes stories criticising the nigerian govt - Go and start protesting on the streets of abuja and lets see whether you will live to tell the story of the beating you will receive from MOPOL.

Nigerians have been living under 50 years of oppression at the hands of a brutal northern oligarchy but you are in such an advanced state of self delusion you can't see it.

violent:
^^^

You can imagine that, and someone here thinks Gadaffi is doing the right thing!


"Any means" ---meaning if that includes killing his own countrymen in thousands just to hang on to power. It's really disturbing the way people think. Hundreds are mourning their relatives as we speak, simply because they desired what everyone else desires----a government by the people, why should that be even wrong?

I am hoping someone could at least provide some sort of plausible explanation on how US could have secretly been the center of the Libyan protest,. . it would be too stúpid to think all those who believe that the protest is controlled by some powers in the west don't have a reason for thinking so.

I will repeat what i said earlier - Gaddaffi is well within his rights to crush any attempt to topple him - he has served his people well, taking Libya out of poverty and modernising it into a self sufficient nation despite years of western imposed economic embargoes.  He even survived an air strike carried out the by the US govt in 1986 which killed his only daughter:

The air strike killed 45 Libyan soldiers and government officials, and 15 civilians. Forewarned by a telephone call from Malta's Prime Minister, Karmenu Mifsud Bonnici, that unauthorized aircraft were flying over Maltese airspace heading south towards Tripoli, Libyan leader Muammar Gaddafi and his family rushed out of their residence in the Bab al Aziziya compound moments before the bombs dropped. Gaddafi escaped injury but his 15-month-old adopted daughter Hanna was killed, and two of his sons were injured.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bombing_of_Libya#Libyan


Nigeria has been kow towing and kissing the ar.se of america and Britain for 50 years and the only thing nigerians have to show for it is mass unemployment, brain drain, sub standard educational instititutions, non existent health care facilities, death trap roads, armed robbery and very soon another round of crippling structural adjustment policies.

Those so called protesters should move to nigeria and then they will know what it means to live in a hell hole.  At least they eat three square meals a day, live in decent accommodation, have access to free education, health care and live in a clean environment.

Evil Brain:
If Libya is so fantastic, then why are their people braving bullets to come out and protest? People think the place is so fantastic when in reality its not that different from Nigeria. Some people live in luxury while most have very little. They may not have the kind of abject poverty we have here, but their society is still very unequal. The petrodollars mostly end up in the pockets of a privileged few.

Libya is not the hell hole that the west are trying to make us beleive it is, if the west want to start talking about dismantling brutal dictatorships they should be clamouring for the toppling of the Saudi Royal Family but they wont because the Saudis opened up their country to the US to exploit to the hilt.

Libya on the other hand has refused to play ball and therefore  Gaddafi  has been marked for removal by the US govt.

By the way you say the protesters have braved bullets to come out and remove Gadaffi, do you know anything about the people protesting on the streets?  Do these people represent the vast majority of Libyans?

When the CIA staged a coup to overthrow Chavez in 2002  they paid anti Chavez protesters to come out and start shooting and causing mayhem on the streets , the western press subsequently reported this as the killing of peaceful anti Chavez protesters by pro Chavez supporters - do you see how easy it is to be bamboozled by western propaganda?
I would advise you to go and google "colour revolutions" and the name "George Soros"  - that may explain in detail why these "revolutions" are happening at this particular time in the middle east.

Oh and by the way, Nigeria is not a democracy. Democracy means the people have the power to change their government whenever they are unhappy with its performance. Can you name one state outside of Lagos where that is even remotely possible? Here, our leaders get chosen through political manipulation (e.g. Yar'Adua), backstabbing (e.g. Alao Akala) and rigging (e.g. everybody else). The people have nothing to do with it.

I agree with you nigeria is merely masquerading as a democracy, yes it holds elections every 4 years, but they are nothing but a charade, the results are already predetermined.
My point was that the west don't seem to have a problem with nigeria and its leadership despite its open disregard for democratic priniciples but instead it seems hell bent on demonising Gadaffi who has provided more for his people than any nigerian leader since independence has ever done.

Nominal elections held for show don't make us a democracy any more than they made Mubarak a democrat. If the international community would allow it I'm sure the ruling class would rather skip the pretense, embezzle the INEC money and swear in GEJ after a PDP "family meeting".

True, but the illusion of democracy has been successfully used to bamboozle the majority of the nigerian populace for years , so i think its serving its purpose and its for that reason that i refer to nigeria as a democracy albeit a fake one.

Also the "international community" could not care less how the nigerian govt chooses to govern its people, after all they have backed military dictatorships in nigeria in the past (Babangida).

[quote author=isale_gan2 link=topic=608408.msg7767033#msg7767033 date=1298216109]You couldn't be more on point, Cap! Same thing they are attempting to do in Iran. I expect Gaddafi to outsmart them once again. They've been after his arse for at least 25 years now. Year in year out, the same policy by the Americans; only the U.S. president/mouthpiece changes.[/quote]Howdy pardner! Yeah unfortunately the US are up to their old tricks again. Gadaffi has been a thorn in their sides as you correctly stated for over 25 years and they are hoping to use this so called "people's revolution" which is sweeping through the middle east (with their assistance) to oust him. They will not succeed as Gadaffi is too clever for this, he is doing the right thing.

The same goes for Iran the americans are really desperate to see the back of Ahmadinejad but they will fail, the Iranians are not stupid, many Iranians still remember the way Iran was under the Shah and they will do whatever is necessary to prevent a return to that terrible era.

[quote author=~Bluetooth link=topic=608408.msg7766940#msg7766940 date=1298214974]considering the spate of the agitation,i can now see it has some external influence.libya is far better than nigeria yet they dont practice democracy.what good

has democracy done to nigeria ?[/quote]Democracy is just a buzz word used by the west to cover their true agendas , does the US govt practice a democratic system of govt in their own country?  People seem to overlook the fact that the people in power in the west are  members of the elite not members of the working classes, in the UK the whole of David Cameron's cabinet are made  up of former old etonians, oxbridge alumni and millionaires, hardly a representative form of govt.

Its even worse in the US - you cannot even run for office unless you can afford to loose at least a $1 million dollars to fund your campaign, hardly acheivable for an ordinary joe.

Libya practices a system of governance which suits its people, the west can call it undemocratic if they like, but if you can't provide decent housing, food, and employment for your people is that democracy?  Surely a democratic system should ensure that you provide the most basic necessities to your people, Libya has been able to acheive all of those things and nigeria that claims to be a democratic nation hasnt - i know which nation i would prefer to live in.

Sun of god:
I do notice how they dont refer to themselves as Africans but instead arabs. (All north Africans)

The media reports that they live in the 'Middle East' - Not Africa.

So let them head back to Arabia (Dead or Alive) - Why are we showing concern for their woes?

Arabs - Get Out Of Africa!

North african Arabs have never referred to themselves as africans as they regard themselves as superior to black africans who they refer to as abeed - arabic for black slave, therefore it should come as no suprise to any black african person that they do not see themselves as africans.  For starters they invaded africa and appropriated north africa for themselves whilst simultaneously enslaving the original black inhabitants.  It is laughable for you to expect a north african arab to "head back to arabia" when he succeeded in acheiving what he came for ie defeat of the indigenous people and the appropriation of that person's land.  If anything THEY are the ones who are now in a position to tell the black african TO GET OUT OF AFRICA given that they were the victors.

Gadaffi is doing the right thing, the west is trying to topple him by way of a fake "revolution", Libya unlike Egypt is not  a client state of the US and therefore Gadaffi is well within his rights to fight off any attempt to topple him.

The US govts fingerprints are all over this so called "uprising", Gadaffi should resort to any means to crush this fake rebellion because it is not legitimate.

Gadaffi has done a lot for his people, Libya unlike nigeria is a nation which has succeeded in providign a decent standa\rd of living for all its citizens, Gadaffi may be autocratic in terms of the way he runs the country but he is not syphoning billions of oil revenue away into swiss accounts and condemning his people to a life of grim poverty and misery.  Neither has he mortgaged his nation to the IMF, opened up the country to foreign direct investment aka appropriation of domestic resources into the hands of slave masters.  His only crime is that he has refused to be a western puppet like all of nigeria's so called leaders since "independence".

I pray that the US govt and their puppets will not succeed in their planned take over and toppling of Gaddaffi.

MAURI:
Well said!

On the issure of Shell, depsite the gravity of the seriousness of this issue, nobody seems to care. Well, it is conform the interest of the so called rulers, so they cld not care less. My question is, what are the journalists doing? such revelations wld have  lead to parliamentary questions/enquiries in the developed world.
We seriously need to get our acts together, hold the bull by it's horns and learn to direct our affairs. And of course IMF and all these agencies will publish all sorts of reports from time-2-time, the big question is: What are we doing to make ourselves less dependent on agencies/bodies that are not out there to protect our interest?

Noble words, but the sad truth is nigeria is completely powerless and is totally at the mercy of the west, the current crop of nigerian leaders can not and will never challenge or oppose any IMF proposals. Why? because if they do, the west will ensure that they are removed from power. 

Nigerian journalists?  give me a break they are all hungry and running scared, who wants to die like Dele Giwa?
Most of the mainstream newspapers are owned by the same crooks, which nigerian journalist will have the balls to publish the truth? publish the truth and look forward to an early death, even if you do tell people the truth many will still condemn you for being a trouble maker and rabble rouser or even a "conspiracy theorist"!!!

To answer your question about us becoming less dependant - thats a bit like asking someone to slam the door after the horses have bolted, nigeria's problems with the IMF did not start today, we borrowed money in the 80s under the auspicies of the IBB administration, we are still paying off the interest on the money borrowed during that period, during OBJ's tenure we paid the Paris club £18 billion as PART payment of our debts, despite paying such a gargantuan sum in PART payment the west STILL made sure we were not completely off the hook, - why didnt OBJ insist that the paris club accept the $18billion in full and final settlement, given that the bulk of the debt was calculated by way of extortionate interest rates.

We have got to face up to the truth of our situation, nigeria was sold out to the west lock stock and barrell a long time ago, the current crop of nigerian leaders are NOT in a position to challenge the west because the west has been responsible for keeping them in power, the west provides them with military aid just the same way they did with Mubarak, therefore it is highly unlikely that the nigerian govt will turn around to try refuse any IMF proposals.

[quote author=EzeUche_ link=topic=608408.msg7764444#msg7764444 date=1298168106]Source please. . .In the Politics forum, we like to see sources and we do not need to Google it ROSSIKE. You should know this by now. And we do not like to see mere assertions. [/quote]Intelligent people read and research books in their spare time, therefore they do not need to be spoon fed about topical issues, the mark of a non functioning brain is one which constantly needs to be baby sat, guided and tutored ad nauseam, do you not do research at your backwater evening college?

[quote author=EzeUche_ link=topic=607357.msg7764438#msg7764438 date=1298167832]When I say it, it is much more believable. A person who is always saying the sky is falling, will be seen as the village fool. However, when a person with a lot of titles says it, then this is much believable. I hope that helps you understand how Nairaland works. Some of the things you raise are conspiracy theories. However, there are many instances, that can be seen by Africans in how the IMF have destroyed our economies. [/quote]Sorry?? Titles?? what titles do you have that makes you beleivable? 

So you think because you've just learnt how to read and write that makes you an authority on any given subject?

Is it your tragic delusions of grandeur and comical and immature attempts at debating that have convinced you that you are "beleivable"?

Or is it your clueless bigotry and xenophobic babbling that makes you "beleivable".

A fool is a person who fails to heed words of warning beleiving that he knows best - that is definitely you.   

Since i have been on NL i have continued to highlight the dangers posed to the nigerian economy by the IMF but people like you have been too s.tup.id and dumb to listen and understand, now at the eleventh hour the IMF is once again knocking on nigeria's door preparing nigerians for another round of extreme poverty and suffering,  i should know because i was in nigeria during the first IMF sponsored austerity measures - keep displaying your limitless naivite and stu.pidity - may you and your family be the first casualties of the coming food shortages, petrol scarcity and mayhem.