₦airaland Forum

fstranger3:
A Sierra Leonean

Ironsi is from Republic of Sierra Leone, remember dumb-dumb

Always eager to claim other people!

you obviously were not paying attention during geography , since when has Umuahia been described as being located in Sierra Leone?

Katsumoto:
What do you call a man who faced the Japs in Burma in WW2 for 3 years? Until you accomplish such a feat, you are not fit to call the man's name.

'Another serious rival of Ironsi's,  Brigadier Ogundipe, had the advantage of not only being the only senior Nigerian officer who had actually seen combat in Burma during World War2 but had also been the first Nigerian to command  a Brigade formation at Lualuaborg in the Congo (before Ironsi assumed overall command of ONUC).'

http://www.dawodu.com/omoigui35.htm

And what do you call a man who was the most decorated soldier of his generation.

A man who spoke all three of nigeria's major languages (igbo, yoruba and hausa) fluently.
A man who commanded a UN peacekeeping force in the Congo ( the first african to command such a force)

A man who took on the rank of major general while in the Congo (again the first african to attain such a rank) but who humbly reverted to brigadier upon his return to Nigeria.

A man who was awarded a medal for gallantry by the Austrian govt for his bravery and courage in the Congo.

I tell you what you call such a man,  you call him Johnson Aguiyi Ironsi - a man who was brutally cut down in his prime by barbarians because of his honesty and sincerity.

Katsumoto you are not fit to kiss the feet of his descendants.

Katsumoto:
Your analysis is flawed on so many levels
1. It is not a secret that of the three main regions, the west was the most under-represented region in the officer corp. This was even worse with NCOs.
2. Whilst Yoruba officers in the Army did not engage in any bloodletting (primarily because the Yoruba had seen war and conflict over a longer period than any other group in Nigeria and prefer diplomacy first), the same cannot be said for the Yoruba populace who went on the streets and got killed by the police action instituted by Balewa and his friends in power between 1962 and 1964 (I believe Igbo sons were in that cabinet). You can google Agbekoya
3. To suggest that the January coup plotters acted on behalf of the West is naive at best and disingenuous at worst.
4. The Yoruba did not ask the Jan plotters to take over and they certainly did not ask for them to murder anyone. Whilst it can be argued that Akintola was not loved in the West, you are suggesting that the Yoruba were not embittered to learn of the murder of Brigadier Ademulegun and his wife, Col Sodeinde and the attempted murder of his pregnant wife, as well as the savage manner Nzeogwu murdered Sgt Oyegoke. Do you think these people did not have families? Did their families not have friends and neighbours?
5. Zik, Okpara, and other Igbo members of the cabinet were part of the conspiracy to jail Awolowo and impose a state of emergency on the West leading to lose of many Yoruba lives. You must think Yoruba people have short memories
6. Nigeria was essentially a marriage between North and East. Did Zik not break the pact with Awo that each region would go its own way in 1957 preferring to wait for the North to be ready for independence. Also did Zik not ignore Awo's offer to be PM preferring to be a ceremonial president under Bello's protege, Balewa.


Yet you think that despite all these, the Yoruba would have immediately jumped into bed with the Igbo simply because a group of young turks decided to murder everyone except their own kin. Thats not the way the world works. Betrayal, murder, and ethnocentrism are a lot to think about.

I dare you to find a list of patriots who put their lives on the line from any region that is longer than the list below. Unless you think that murdering men and women, including pregnant ones, in the middle of the night is a sign of bravery and courage. I don't like these types of comments but you leave me with no choice.

1. Fela
2. Beko Ransome-Kuti
3. Wole Soyinka
4. Femi Falana
5. Gani Fawehinmi
6. Baba Omojola
7. Pa Michael Ajasin and other NADECO members who all stood up to Abacha while the rest of Nigeria kept quiet.
8. Segun Maiyegun


Please ignore any typos, using my fone.

In response to your above mentioned points:

1 i am well aware that the west was underepresented in the army - so were the igbos, but that didnt stop our men from acting with great courage and conviction - the yoruba soldiers were only interested in saving their own skins

2 I am not talking about the actions of the yoruba populace - they obviously had an axe to grind - Akintola was imposed on them and they wanted him out, im referring to the yoruba soldiers, many of whom were only interested in saving their own skins and please don't confuse cowardice with diplomacy, the army was supposed to be the most detribalised place in nigeria - surely if the yorubas viewed the igbos as true brothers they would have intervened in order to stop the mass killings perpetrated by the northern soldiers, as you know nothing of the sort happened. Instead what you had were a group of yoruba soldiers whose sole concern was their own safety  - please read Max Siollun's account of how the yoruba soldiers sent a delegation to Katsina to plead for their lives.  

3 Why?  there is ample evidence which points in that direction, Awo was in jail for trying to overthrow the govt , Special branch had evidence on him indicating that he had approached various army officers including Ademulegun previously.

4 Have you ever heard of a revolution in which lives are not lost? the idea that you can take over the reins of power from a corrupt govt with every thing to loose if they are out of power without the use of violence is the most ridiculous thing i have ever heard.  When the american settlers fought to emancipate themselves from the colonial grip of the british why didnt they simply resort to a round table conference?
And yes to answer your question the yorubas were happy about the demise of everyone who was linked to the corrupt first republic, obviously it would have been preferable if ademulegun's wife had not been caught up in the cross fire but unfortunately revolutions are not clean and simple affairs.  In military parlance such unfortunate occurences are referred to as "collateral damage".

5 Your lies are now becoming more pathetic and desperate, now tell me something why were the elections in the western region marred by rigging, voter intimidation, arson, murder and thuggery?  Was Zik responsible for that?
why did Akintola's retention of power lead to widespread rioting and violence amongst the yoruba electorate? Was that Zik up to his old tricks again?
As a matter of fact a state of emergency was not declared by Balewa in 1965 because the northerners did not want anything that would jeopardise the rule of their puppet - Akintola.  Here is Max Siollun's analysis:

"Akintola was ruling over a population that was largely in revolt against him and many parts of which felt that he had been imposed on them irrespective of their vote for a different party.  It seemed as if the people of the Western Region would never be able to remove Akintola from power via the ballot box." - page 19 -20 Oil politics and violence - max siollun.

Now how you have arrived at your analysis that Zik and other igbos conspired to jail Awolowo and then impose a  state of emergency on the western region boggles my mind.  The truth of the matter is that Awo had already been dealt with by the northerners, they had clamped him in prison for plotting the overthrow of Balewa's govt - Enahoro himself confessed to this, again here is Max Siollun's account:

"Although Awolowo's supporters claimed that the suspects were framed and that the whole affair was a show trial aimed at eliminating the opposition, a genuine plot to overthrow the govt did exist and was infiltrated by Special Branch police officers.  Although it was initiated by civilians the awolowo treason trial may be regarded as the culmination of nigeria's first coup plot".

Many years later Awo's co accused - Sam Ikoku publicly confessed that the plot was real and that they had attempted to overthrow the nigerian govt".

pages 15-16 - Oil Politics and Violence

6 I cant comment on that as i dont know the ins and outs of why Zik agreed to allign with the north over the west.

My list of patriots are the 3 million innocent biafran men, women and children who died as a result of the genocidal atrocities committed by the north and your yoruba kith and kin.

BK babe - a sad rejected mutt with no roots, unwanted by his colombian "family"  - a pathetic nobody who can't accept the fact that he is beneath nigerians.  

Ghetto boy -  look at your grammar - it  speaks volumes!!!!!! - you can't run away from who you are.

Stop deceiving yourself that anyone on this forum gives a damn about your opinions because they dont, all you do is huff and puff and then whimper, you have absolutely zero credibility why don't you do the world a favour and just disappear - honestly you won't be missed.

[quote author=bk.babe97y link=topic=599800.msg7690569#msg7690569 date=1297172668]This broke, illiterate, pseudo intellectual. Youre still here hovering for carcass like the long-necked Ibo vulture that you are?!

Why do u always deem it necessary to take up all kindsa net space in order to write us a book when a simple explanation would not only be shorter, but, even moreso, TO THE POINT?

Conspiracy theorist, writing long aszz essays does not prove anything but your stup*idity. . . . How do I know?

I doubt anyone, EVER, completely reads the diatribes you continually post on here! I personally, never get past the second line of anything you write. . . . always fucxcking giving us history we know already, instead of getting to the damn point and making his position known. Wanna-be Einstein!

Punk![/quote]so you've reported back for duty ghetto boy? keep foaming at the mouth like a castrated dog, by now you shoudl be aware that your illiterate opinions count for absolutely nothing, the question is,  have you got the balls to flex these muscles on a colombian forum? - absolutely not.

You know why? because your colombian "brothers" will make mince meat out of you, but you have the nerve to come on to a nigerian forum thinking that you are above nigerians - you're just hurting cos ive put you in your place - carry on wimpering and whining like the toothless mutt you are, please dont stop your illiterate gibberish ranting - im never one to turn my nose up at free entertainment  

The ignorance of the likes of Dayokanu and his support for the genocide perpetrated by the likes of Adekunle is quite nauseating to behold.

Dayokanu let me explain a few things to you that you do not seem to understand - Adekunle was used by the northeners to acheive one objective - the defeat of their enemies the igbo, as soon as he acheived this objective he was tossed aside and recommended for compulsory retirement.  

Why did Adekunle end up a peniless , bitter drunk while his nothern masters ended up as members of the nigerian elite, why did the likes of TY Danjuma, Joe Garba, Abacha, Babangida, Shuwa and Useni  end up as multi billionaires while Adekunle ended up almost destitute?  Can you not see that Adekunle was nothing but a pawn?

It is common knowledge that shortly after the July 66 coup many yoruba soldiers feared for their lives and wanted to desert the army en masse.  Here is an excerpt from Oil Politics and Violence by max siollun:

"Yoruba soldiers were also afraid that after northerners finished off igbo officers they would be next.  Concerned for their safety yoruba soldiers sent a delegation consisting of Lt Col Obasanjo, Major Oluleye and Captains Akinfenwa and Ogundeko to the northern region's military governor Lt Col Katsina, to report their fears. Katsina arranged for Major Obasanjo to be smuggled away for his own protection.  Some Yoruba officers wanted to desert the army either individually or en masse as part of a self protective yoruba withdrawal.

"Colnel Adebayo was out of the country when the July 66 revolt commenced.  He returned a few days later and succeeded Fajuyi as the western region's military governor.  Adebayo later articulated yoruba fears as follows: "The Yorubas are afraid of moving around with the northern troops because they feel, well they have done something to the easterners maybe it is our turn next."
- oil violence and politics  page 132 - max siollun

This is hardly the conduct of brave and courageous men is it Dayokanu?

Lets be honest about this - the men who implemented the coup of January 66 largely comprised of igbos had the courage to act on their convictions the yorubas had neither the courage nor conviction to do anything about the corruption, greed and rot that was seeping into the nigerian system at that time,this is why they failed to form an alliance with the igbos after the July 66 coup.
It is clear from the events in the western region at the time that the yoruba hated the northern stooge Akintola but they did not have the courage to overhaul the system, when a group of courageous men stepped forward to remove the cancer imposed on by a corrupt cabal of nigerian polticians headed up by the Sardauna of Sokoto - the yoruba sat on the sidelines waiting to see who woudl be victorious.  When the Januay 66 coup failed instead of the yoruba to allign with the south they took the coward's way out and opted to become errand boys for the north - is that something to be proud about Dayokanu - that is a shameful chapter in your history and the sooner you let this seep into your brain the better for you.

The northerners outnumbered the combined numbers of igbo and yoruba soldiers and this why they gained the upper hand militarily.  The sardauna of sokoto was a man of great shrewdness and cunning, he introduced the quota system for military recruitment so that northerners would be recruited in greater numbers than southerners, because he knew that he who controls the military of a country will always control the power of that country.

Today we are reaping the outcome of the Sardauna's plan for nigeria, a nation run by a criminal cabal of murderers, former coup plotters and genocidists, are you better off with this arrangement?

With the exception of fela kuti, Wole Soyinka and Gani Fawehinmi i dont think you have any men of courage who you shoudl feel proud about, note how all of you remained as mute and mice during the perseuction of all of the above mentioned men by these same northerners - shame on you!!

Mobinga:
You're addicted to the Igbo's bro, why don't you prove your thugness and wannabe-ism, next time you see an Igbo, shoot him. You'll attain your nigga status and bonafide hate stamped!! Don't just sit in front of a pc and start whining like a little binch. Be real.

That's because he has nowhere else to go, ive always wondered why he spends so much of his time on nigerian forums, i mean he claims to be half colombian - why doesnt he hang with his colombian brethren,  hmm i think i know the reason - could it be because they dont accept him.

I wouldnt mind if he showed nigerians some respect but he comes on here jabbering like a deranged chimp on crack, carrying on like he's some big time hood,when he's just a sad little ghetto hood rat.

[quote author=bk.babe97y link=topic=599800.msg7687725#msg7687725 date=1297130502]Like the other two incidents, I love the way you avoided the challenge, punk aszz Ibo monkey!

Always thinking they're better than everyone!

Come on, lets get on with it: LETS COMPARE FINANCES AND EDUCATIONAL BACKGROUNDS!

Biyytch![/quote]Have i dented your ego AGAIN sorry bro, but you just make it so easy, but please continue to entertain me with your EBONIC rantings - i just love it when you put your ignorance and limited intelligence on display for all of us on NL to enjoy  

[quote author=bk.babe97y link=topic=599800.msg7687719#msg7687719 date=1297130395]Feel free to put up a poll and really "see" what NLer's think of both of us; Mr. Conspiracy Theory!!!!

Remember I'm usually clowning, while you always try your darndest to sound smart. . . .

BTW, Why am I wasting time? I already put u in your place twice in the past already.

So, heres going back to talking in ebonics and being unserious cause  that be the language psuedo intellectuals like urself stay understanding. . . . . lmao

gotta make folks like urself feel good about something![/quote]you really are a very sad little ghetto boy - i hit the nail on the head when i said you suffer from inferiority complex, why else would you be concerned about what anonymous people on an online forum think of  you - boy your mental state is a lot worse than i thought.

First of all only a deranged mind would even think it normal to post their personal details on a public online forum - my heart goes out to you as you sound like a tortured soul.

But thanks for the comic relief  

[quote author=bk.babe97y link=topic=599800.msg7687641#msg7687641 date=1297129046]Like I always tell your fellow Ibo brothers that dare compare financial or educational status with me:

DO YOU WANT US TO PUT OUR CREDENTIALS/QUALIFICATIONS UP HERE FOR ALL TO SEE, SO THE WORLD CAN DECIDE WHICH OF US IS MORE/LESS EDUCATED?!!

I cant wait to send you the way of Nchara and Mekuxshitty the Plant Scientist!

Notice, Ezeuche stopped boasting about money too. . . .

Yeah, I kill ants with a sledge hammer. . . . Just like a oft discussed Yoruba hero! [/quote] bro please my stomach's killing  me here, stop giving me jokes - i didnt know you were such a great comedian  

[quote author=bk.babe97y link=topic=599800.msg7687574#msg7687574 date=1297127880]And your still alive, and still sound like a drunk thats high on Crack and Crystal Meth. . . . you and your 10billion conspiracy theories!

Mad Man![/quote]Hello ghetto hood rat, being semi literate must really suck  - i suppose thats the reason you dismiss everything your pea brain can't understand to a "conspiracy theory".  

Your inferiority complex is painfully obvious, bro its not my fault that you're a high school drop out, its not too late to try adult education you know.

I hear Adekunle ended up as a bitter, broken drunk, tormented by the spirits of the innocent lives he took away.  The northerners used him and then dumped him - unlike many of his northern peers he did not go on to enjoy a lucrative career in politics but was forced into early retirement in 1974.

Adekunle's killing spree in Biafra may have partly been motivated out of a fear for his own saftey.
(not that im making any excuses for what he did)
Many Yoruba soldiers in a bid to prevent being killed themselves by northern soldiers went out of their way to kill igbos just to prove to the northerners that they were loyal to their cause.  On page 132 of Oil Politics and Violence by Max Siollun - the writer demonstrates how close Adekunle came to loosing his own life at the hands of northern soldiers for promising to transport igbo soldiers safely back to the east:

"The Northern soldiers in Adekunle's battalion and the igbo soldiers were placed on the same trains.  Some Northern soldiers having long been frustrated at their inability to kill igbos thus far, finally got their opportunity.  They descended upon the igbo soldiers, killed them and threw their bodies off the train.  For promising safe passage to the igbo soldiers, Adekunle too was attacked , but was saved by the intervention of Captain Gibson Jalo."

page 132 -133 - Oil Politics and Violence - max siollun

ola olabiy:
Before July 1966, there was January 1966. Let's talk about that one, please. The second coup was just a counter one.
And, in any coup all over the world, if successful, you partake of the spoils of its success.

Feel free to talk about it as much as you like but try and do some research first as your knowledge of the first coup seems to be extremely limited.

The counter coup you speak of - what was it countering?

Also i see from your second answer that you see nigeria as a prize which was being fought over, the first coup was not about overthrowing a govt in order to "partake in the spoils" as you describe it but in order to get rid of a corrupt elements that had eaten away into the nigerian political system like cancer - does it not matter to you that that was a problem? Your yoruba people were rioting all over the western region because of the corrupt behaviour of your Akintola and his cronies - do you not think that it was a good thing that he paid the ulitmate price for his greed?

Katsumoto:
Mo ri pe oun gbadun debate yi. lol

this debate is being conducted in english just in case you were unaware!

dayokanu:
6 July
0 July

15 July  Fighting breaks out between the federal and Biafran troops.
The first Division of the Nigerian Army under Colonel Mohammed Shuwa captures Ogoja.
Biafran aircraft bombs Lagos.
Shuwa captures Nsukka.  


Third Marine Commandos Division of the Nigerian Army under Colonel Benjamin ADEKUNLE captures Bonny.
The rebels invade Mid-West and capture Benin. Later, in a hurried response, a Second Division of the Nigerian Army under Colonel Murtala Mohammed is formed.
Gowon declares total war. Lagos bombed again.

http://www.ogbomoso.net/adekunle6.html

Written by the man who mauled the Biafran uprising Benjamin Maja Adekunle. How proud am I to be from the same town as this man.

He knows how to deal with an uprising.

[size=18pt]BENJAMIN ADEKUNLE, Dayokanu hereby salutes you wherever you ight be for your exploits in dealing with those that killed my Great uncle Aare ona Kakanfo of Yorubaland. Chief Samuel Ladoke Akintola[/size].

May God bless your soul  

You should be thoroughly ashamed of yourself for praising a coward who bragged about how he would kill defenceless, starvation ravaged igbo civilians , a man who shamelessly had this to say during an interview with the foreign press:

“I want see no Red Cross, no Caritas, no World Council of Churches, no pope, no missionary, and no United Nations Delegation. I want to prevent even one Igbo from having even one piece to eat before their capitulation. We shoot at everything that moves and when our troops march into the center of Igbo territory, we shoot at everything even a things that don’t move”—Benjamin Adekunle

The thing i find really puzzling is that no -one seems to see that there is something inherently wrong with the fact that none of the July 66 coup participants were ever charged or even court martialed for their massacre of hundreds of igbo officers and soldiers.  Not only did these soldiers go scot free - many of them went on to play major roles in the running of nigeria- the likes of ibrahim babangida, abacha, TY Danjuma, buhari went on to have very lucrative careers in the army and in the political arena despite their bloodsoaked past.  What sort of message does that send out - obviously that if you are a soldier you can murder people and not only get away with it but also play a prominent role in the running of your country - as long as your coup is successful!!!

What makes the situation all the more tragic is the fact that an igbo man - Aguiyi Ironsi sacrificed his life in the naive belief that his fellow soldiers irrespective of ethnicity were on the same side as him - what a waste of an innocent life!!

Nigeria is no better than nazi germany in which murderers and criminals used violence to hijack the reins of power and perpetuate themselves in office.  I wonder why all these duplicitous people that continue to scapegoat igbos by calling the Jan 66 coup an igbo coup have never raised this issue.

To those people who have continued to peddle the lie that the Jan 66 coup was an igbo coup - i ask you this - was the July 66 coup a nationalistic coup? How about the coup that overthrew Murtala Muhammed that was dominated by soldiers from the middle belt - would you call that a middle belt coup?

The way some people reason is just  

ola olabiy:
Was he not part of the coup? He headed the government of usurpers, innit?

And, there was a counter coup as a result of the usurpation, innit?

And the civil war.


And Igbos lost everything . . . . . this includes trust as sensitive positions have since eluded them.

His actions or inactions started it all.

what on earth are you talking about?

Ironsi was NOT part of the January 66 coup - please get your facts right.

He narrowly escaped being killed by the coup plotters of Jan 66 himself.

He quashed the coup and had all the coup plotters arrested - i dont know where you are getting your flawed information from!!!

ola olabiy:
Are you trying to defend Ironsi?A man who was solely responsible for the marginalisation of the Igbos today. You had a unique opportunity in Nigeria before the coup. He blew it all and you lost your privileged position.
Sorry, man.

He was so silly.

can you explain how Ironsi was solely responsible for the marginalisation of Igbos?

ShangoThor:
[size=28pt]@ cap28, I admire you for speaking the truth![/size]

thanx bro

Jen33:
cap28 said:

Well, is the north ruling now? In many ways, their power has become increasingly neutralized, or rather, brought to  a more even keel with the other regions.

Im sorry but if one section of the country has been ruling for 43 out of 50 years of a country's independence i fail to see how that demonstrates a gradual neutralisation of its powers.

This can be seen as the price of nationhood, for which Nigeria will not be the first or the last to experience it. The USA and Britain have fought civil wars in their formative years as well. France experienced a bloody revolution. Under Stalin, an estimated 30 million Russians were brutally murdered. Many of the nations you look at and admire today have been through some very serious crises in the past. Nations tend to learn from these experiences. I believe the civil war sensitized Nigerians to the need for greater conflict resolution, which I believe has stood us in good stead today. In the past, incidents like Boko Haram would have been enough to trigger a coup, or even civil war.

YOu cant compare nigeria to the US or russia for that matter.  The american settlers were a united people who all spoke the same language and they had a common objective - to free themselves from the yoke of british colonialism.

The russians again are largely one race of people with one language who were also united and fighting a common cause - to prevent their country from being invaded by the  germans - there was unity of purpose and objective.
Not only are nigerians not united by way of a common culture or language but we do not have unity of purpose.  Remember that during british colonial rule the northerners wanted the british to remain in nigeria while the southerners wanted the british out, we differed then  in our vision and purpose and we differ today as well for similar reasons.

If it were that nigeria had indeed acheived nationhood  we would not have a corrupt and lopsided system of governance in which the majority of nigeria's leaders consist of a small powerful clique from the north.
Nigeria is not a nation it is a Kleptocracy, a country run for the benefit of a powerful cabal of thieives.

Yes, and today there is an amnesty program, and there is major infrastructural development work going on in the area. The region now has 13% derivation, and a member of that region is now the president. If that is not progress, what is?

The 13 % derivation is an improvement on the original allocation of 3% however increasing the allocation can not work unless you have honest people at the top all the way down to local govt level , if i allocate 13% of oil revenue to a state but the governor is a theif who diverts it into his personal bank account, of what use is the increase in allocation?  my point is that the root of governance in nigeria is corrupt because its built on a foundation of kleptocracy, if, however nigeria were to split along ethnic lines govt officials would be forced to be much more accountable to their respective regions.

Yes, but what about the other 99% of the country where people of various ethnicities and religions live in peace?

Do they not count??

I wouldnt say that the other ethnic groups are exactly living in peace and harmony, remember how the igbos were betrayed by the yorubas and the ijaw people during the nigerian civil war.  I would say there is more inter ethnic tolerance in the south though.

AjanleKoko:
On the contrary I think Jen33 makes a solid point. It's kind of simplistic, academic even, to blame it all on Western powers, colonialism, etc., but remember that we have the inherent problem of multi-ethnicity, which in itself needs to be resolved. Development is not a switch that anybody can just flip with rhetoric; you still have deep-seated angst among the various ethnic groups in Nigeria, all of whom consider themselves to be potential nations in their own right, at least they were, pre-colonization. That's why power sharing remains a major issue in Nigeria and similar nations such as DRC, and even South Africa.

Without a sort of Balance of Power between the various dominant blocs in heterogenous nations like Nigeria, there can't be any meaninful progress beyond where we are now. In my opinion, when I travel around Africa, even the much-vaunted Ghana, I can easily see how much progress has been made in Nigeria, in terms of education, healthcare, industrialization, even infrastructure, compared to many of our fellow countries. Africa is on the way up right now, and it will happen faster than any of us think.

why would you say that its simplistic to blame britain for our woes when our current situation to date can be traced quite easily back to the colonial era ?

Lets go back to the partition of africa or berlin conference of 1885 which was where many of the problems that we are experiencing today originated  - was any african leader present at this conference in berlin?  what say did africans have in the carving up and lumping together of different ethnic groups by the european colonialists ?  

How about Lugard's amalgamation of the northern and southern protectorates - did any of us have any say in this? were we consulted beforehand?

Multiethnicity was not a problem until we were lumped together and forced to live under one system of govt, that was when it became a problem.  Why were africans with differing ethnic and cultural differences expected to live successfully under one system of govt when europeans themselves had been incapable of doing the same themselves?

You can not have a balance of power in a country like nigeria where there are so many different groups competing for political and economic dominance as well as control over natural resources, it just can not happen without those various groups clashing and eventually going to war with each other.

Progress is relative, perhaps in comparison to other african nations nigeria may have made greater progress but if you look at the various ethnic groups which make up nigeria in isolation and relate our "progress" to our land, natural resources and manpower i dont think we have progressed as far as we like to think.

Jen33:
cap28 said:

You misread me. We are where we are supposed to be as a nation called Nigeria created by the British from numerous  groups of disparate ethnic and religious entities. We are still at the period where we are working out our intra-relationships as a new nation. It is not impossible for Nigeria to free itself from neo-colonial domination. The nation does not have to split up in order to progress. Splitting up might make progress a bit faster, but staying united can also get us where we want to be. Just might take a bit longer.

I think its disingenous to say that nigeria is at a period where we are working out our intra relationships - how?
Isnt this the same nigeria that has been ruled by the north for 43 years out of its  50 years of supposed independence?

Isnt this the same nigeria where a terrible civil war was fought which claimed the lives of over 3 million people from one ethnic group?

Isnt this the same nigeria in which equitable allocation of our natural resources is yet to be acheived hence the uprisings in the niger delta?

Isnt this the same nigeria in which religious clashes between christians and muslims continue in the middle belt as we speak?

On the contrary i would say that splitting up is indeed the only way that the current ethnic groups within nigeria will ever acheive economic and political self determination,  unfortunately this is not the willl or the agenda of our elites and britain, the british have succeeded in co-opting our elite and as long as that ellite continue to remain at the helm of affairs the people of nigeria will never acheive any form of economic or political progress.

Jen33:
Dayo1401:

To be honest, we are exactly where we are supposed to be. It is the same with every nation. You guys need to understand that it is not just about having bucketloads of natural resources. You also need to develop the social cohesion, the institutions, the political systems, manouvre the various rivalries including religious and ethnic rivalries into forming a cohesive national unit that works in a single direction. To do all these takes several decades. Some would say centuries. Owing to the complexity of our nation, it would take longer to establish these factors than say, a country where everyone is Arab, or French, or English.

So we are exactly where we are supposed to be at this stage of our national evolution.

I dont agree, we are not where we are supposed to be. Nigeria can not evolve or develop economically until it frees itself from the artificial contraption created by the british, this contraption does not allow for nigeria to succed as one entity. Nigeria was created to serve the interests of colonial powers and it is still serving those interests not the interests of the various people within it. The only beneficiaries of nigeria in its current state are the ruling elite and the foreign multinationals and international financial institutions therefore i dont know how you can say we are where we are supposed to be.

a humorous and condensed account of how britain became so rich and powerful:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bWedTbuAtR4

Another thing to note is  the fact that britain formed economic, military and political alliances with other white run nations such as north america and various countries of europe.

These alliances ensure that Britain and america retain their global  position of economic and political dominance
For example Britain's well equipped military is able to protect its economic interests around the world, in some instances it relies on NATO or the UN to intervene on its behalf in order to take control where negotiation is not working.

Sometimes its not enough for a nation to be able to manage and invest their wealth properly but also about that nation's ability to  defend itself from external agression  - in nigeria today even if we we were able to acheive good leadership we would still be vulnerable to external interference because we can not defend ourselves from an external attack from either europe or america.  This is the origin of all our problems today and i find it strange that no-one ever addresses this issue as it is a major weakness - in many ways we are still as vulnerable as we were during the period of the transatlantic slave trade.

The short answer is it robbed, r.aped and pillaged other countries.

The long answer is it  built up a formidable naval fleet which enabled it to compete with the trading activities of other great powers like france Holland and portugal, the superiority of its naval fleet led to it dominating the various sea trading routes.

It colonised and appropriated the wealth of several countries all over the world, transferrring vast amounts of wealth and natural resources from those countries into the treasuries of its own nation.

The major factor which led to Britain's standing as one of the wealthiest nations in the world today however was the fact that it was a major player in the transatlantic slave trade.  Britain was responsible for transporting millions of african slaves from west africa across to north america, the carribean and south america for the cultivation of various cash crops.  The monies made from the sale of these crops was ploughed back into the British economy and used to build and develop various british cities such as london, bristol and liverpool. The wealth generated also triggered its industrial revolution.

Despite efforts by many british historians to try and rewrite history and play down the major role that Britain had in enslaving human beings in order to reap huge financial rewards the facts speak for themselves.

Also the city of london provided the money used to fund the slaving voyages and insurance companies such as Lloyds of london insured the vessels used to carry slaves.

Katsumoto:
Yaradua and Jega were part of the plot but were prevented from acting by David Ogunewe in Enugu. He managed to convince the group (Jalo, Yaradua, nd Jega ) to handover the keys of the Armory. This is covered in Max Siollun's book as well.

With regards to the comment about hindsight, Ironsi paid the price because of

1. The actions of the plotters in January
2. Inaction in dealing with the plotters
3. Placing too much trust in Northern soldiers

Katsumoto thanks, your comments are noted - ive just confirmed from the book that the above mentioned soldiers were part of the plot.

with regard to your comments 1-3:

1 Aguiyi Ironsi quashed the plot of January 66 and was even marked for elimination by these same coup plotters therefore i do not understand why he was murdered by the same soldiers who benefitted from his actions.

2 He arrested and detained every single member of the January 66 plot - and was about to have all of them tried why was that seen as inaction?

3 I agree

hasyak:
what am saying is that it is being hijack by some interest that did not start it, hope you get me!

You are right, the revolution was started by the egyptian masses who are protesting against high unemployment, rises in food prices, corruption and brutality of mubarak's govt.  However there are other issues at play here - for instance the US were responsible for keeping Mubarak in power all these years, they have been supplying his regime with military aid worth $1billion dollars a year, now that they have realised that the people do not want him any longer they are pretending to be on the side of the people - if you listen to the comments coming out of the white house - they are not outrightly asking for Mubarak's resignation they are simply saying they want the Egyptian people to decide.  In addition they have suggested a transition period - they want to use this transition period to find a washington approved candidate - Mohammed El Baradei is one of the candidates they have in mind to take over - another US puppet.  In addition they have instructed Mubarak to tell the army not to fire on the people because they don't want the situation to deteriorate any further, in other words they want to try and dissipate  the anger of the egyptians by pacifying them until eventually they agree to accept a new puppet.
The egyptians need to remain defiant and they should not accept any new puppet imposed on them by the west because it will mean that this revolution will have been in vain.

http://tv.globalresearch.ca/2011/02/egypt-riots-us-playing-both-sides

Max thanks for posting this.

Ive read your book Oil Politics and Violence and i found it very informative, thanks for such a brilliant and incisive work.

I just have a few observations and i'd appreciate your clarification on them:

Aguiyi Ironsi made a catastrophic mistake by surrounding himself with northern soldiers, is it that he did not understand how deep tribalistic sentiments run in nigeria?  Did he not think that the northern soldiers would try to avenge the death of the northern soldiers and politicians killed during the January 66 coup?

Was Ironsi aware that the british had deliberately given the north an unfair advantage by giving them more seats in the post independence parliament than the east and west combined?

Perhaps its unfair to expect him to have understood the intricacies of nigeria's political system when he was a career soldier , but i think ultimately if he had been aware of the backing and support that the north had from the britain he may have made decisions that might have saved his life.  My thinking is that he naively placed his life in the hands of a group of people who were secretely seething with anger at the audacity of the January 66 coup plotters, also in chapter 7 of  your book you highlight Aguiyi Ironsi's promotion exercise of May 66 where he seemed to be placating northern officers by promoting a large number of them, these were some of the beneficiaries of the promotion exercise:

Murtala Muhammed
Mohammed Shuwa
TY Danjuma
Muhammadu Buhari
Shehu Musa Yaradua
Abdullahi Shelleng
Ibrahim Bako
Muhammadu Jega
Garba Dada
Paul Tarfa


In addition Aguiyi Ironsi did not promote himself, still it appears that this wasnt enough to appease the northern soldiers because it appears that with the exception of Shuwa, Yaradua and Jega all the above mentioned were involved in his removal and the subsequent murder of a vast number of igbo officers and NCOs.  

I beleive that there was nothing he could have done to placate the northerners as they had it in for him simply because he was an igbo man and they were merely waiting for the best time to strike.
I beleive that the north took it forgranted that it was their birthright to rule nigeria and this fueled their disproportionately brutal response by way of the July 66 coup.

Hindsight is a wonderful thing and i cant blame Ironsi as he was not to know that the first coup would trigger such terrible reprisals by northern soldiers.  I think he just wanted to do what he felt was best to keep nigeria united - in that respect would it be correct to say that Aguiyi Ironsi paid the ultimate price for his somewhat naive belief that nigerians could unite as one people and overcome their ethnic differences?

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