₦airaland Forum

shadeyinka:
1. Is his argument that Hell doesn't exist?

If it does, physical Body and soul should go there.

2. Is his argument that the soul also go into the grave?

What goes to sea, goes to Grave

How many times would I state that:
Jesus didn't distinguish between Hell and the Lake of Fire in all the gospels! If He did, please tell us.

If Jesus meant lake of fire won't he have said it


He said Hell and hell isn't lake of fire.

So explain how body and soul go there ?

The story you quote even support physical body in hell .

shadeyinka:
Did Jesus once mentioned specifically the Lake of Fire?

He mentioned hell.

So BODY and soul ought to be in hell ! - Matthew 10'28

shadeyinka:
You believe in two kinds of death, I believe their are three kinds of death. So, when you speak of death, let's know the one you are talking about.

If a person dies, what happens:
His body go to his grave (if he has any)
His soul/spirit goes to the place of the dead

If he is a righteous person in the eyes of the Lord, he goes to the place where Abraham is.
But

Faulty !

Explain how Abel can go to where Abraham is when he died ?

If he is an unrighteous person in the eyes of the Lord, he goes to the place of discomfort called Hell

At Resurection of the Dead at the end of the world: everyone is recombined with their Physical Bodies. And the judgement takes place thereafter

Rev 20:12-15: "And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works. And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works. And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. And whoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire."

Anyone whose name is not found in the book of life is cast into the lake of fire.

I believe the bolded has answered your question

It never said such thing like body and spirit reunion. Don't read your mind into it.

Sea release dead things

Hell release dead .

If you insist what hell release are spirits and souls, are you saying Soul dies ?

Again : Your analysis o

You would have done well to answer his question, does Body go to hell or not ?

Is the physical body of the rich man not present ?
What is tongue and water doing in hell if body doesn't go there according to that story ?

Still there for your consideration !

shadeyinka:
Since your understanding is beclouded, let me ask you a practical question


On February 1, 2003, the Space Shuttle Columbia disintegrated upon reentering Earth's atmosphere, killing all seven crew members. The disaster was the second fatal accident in the Space Shuttle program, after Challenger, which broke apart and killed the seven-member crew 73 seconds after liftoff in 1986.

The Question:
If during a space exploration to Mars, an astronaut who doesn't know God dies deep in space,

1. Would he be part of the resurrection of the dead?
2. Since he doesn't know God, would he experience the second death?

Above for your kind consideration!

Space was his Grave, the Grave release the dead in it . Rev 20:13

shadeyinka:
Since you do not know the definition of death, it's not surprising that this is how you see it.

Resurrection is the recombination of the Soul/Spirit of man with his Body!

The Physical Body can only be brought back to life when there is a reunion of his spirit, soul and body.

That's not my question. What is in both sea and hell Is called " Dead ".

Define death in the context of sea release the dead .. ? Since you said these are physical bodies. It means death is opposite of life.

Hell release the ? Dead . are you saying there are dead spirits/souls ?

shadeyinka:
Instead of responding logical and intelligently, you are busy ranting up and down like atheists on Nairaland!

Your argument was that since eyes, tongue and body was mentioned with respect to the rich man, then Jesus couldn't have been talking about hell but the lake of fire! Unfortunately, if I have assented to the fact that it is the lake of fire,you would have come against me by justifying that Jesus was simply stating a parable!

Now that you where cornered, you feign "old post syndrome"!

Please respond to the argument at hand!
Were you justified to say that the rich man had a body and hence couldn't have been in Hell?

Thrash at bold , his position all along was if hell exist. Body and soul should go there going By Jesus statement at Matthew 10:28.

Its you that need to Justify your lie that only soul go to hell when the Lord added " body "

cc: Barristter07

shadeyinka:
Instead of responding logical and intelligently, you are busy ranting up and down like atheists on Nairaland!

Your argument was that since eyes, tongue and body was mentioned with respect to the rich man, then Jesus couldn't have been talking about hell but the lake of fire! Unfortunately, if I have assented to the fact that it is the lake of fire,you would have come against me by justifying that Jesus was simply stating a parable!

Now that you where cornered, you feign "old post syndrome"!

Please respond to the argument at hand!
Were you justified to say that the rich man had a body and hence couldn't have been in Hell?

He simply said Jesus mention hell NOT lake of fire. So don't twist lake of fire into Matthew 10:28, what he said was Hell

And when you quote rich man and Lazarus, the story mention Hell buy we found that the man has his physical body intact.

He even has a Tongue to taste water. Physical body
Which thrash your submission that ordinary soul go to hell

Think man

@ shadeyinka

You admit its a ressurection verse. But your explanation defeat this. If sea releasing dead bodies means bringing their dead body back to life.

By saying Hell releasing souls/spirit , are you implying soul and spirit die just like the body so that they need to be ressurected ? LOL

shadeyinka:
I wonder if you know your bible beyond what the JW organisation showed you?

I wonder how you can even dream it fit to link up those who died in the sea with those who died in Noah's flood !!!? And you find it interesting!!!!!

Rev 20:13-15:
"And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works. And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. And whoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire."

1. This is resurection of the dead!
2. The sea giving up the dead in it means "even the physical bodies(dead) drowned or buried at sea were released.
3. Death and Hell giving delivered up their dead means the imprisoned Soul/Spirit were released .
[/b]

The Scripture is saying however the way a person dies, he would be resurrected! Do you have an objection to this?


For the scripture did not speak about those who died in an inferno that burnt them into vapour?

Fraud! Hell release the dead in it means souls were released , that's NOT ressurection , because resurrection is not just release but bringing back to life.

You are perpetrating a fraud in there, whatever apply to hell should apply to sea .

solite3:
Jesus was speaking about natural birth and spiritual birth.
humans are flesh but when one is born of the spirit he becomes spirit in the sense that he is not subject to the prediction and laws of the natural man.


being a spirit does not mean to be God but when

Is Gods nature not spirit ?
Don't be silly, what does it mean to share the Divine nature ? is that not Gods nature ?

shadeyinka:
The reference to this text is about insertion of words in the original Hebrew or Greek text. Would Jehovah's witness Hebrew or Greek Bible contain insertions (to the original text)?

Very poor analysis
Every English translator supply words not in the original text to make it readable and understandable. The NWT other is justified because Jesus was created . Revelation 3:14

OkCornel:
Thank you very much!

JW members, what's your view on this? This invalidates the claims Jesus was created...and that he and Arch-angel Michael are one and same.


Anyways...I'm outta here...

Cheers to all of you...

You think that way because Father and son were both addressed as alpha and omega , but two people using same title doesn't mean they have equal authority . just like Jesus and his disciples called " Apostle " . yeah Jesus was called an apostle too . but we know the authority isn't the same.

Jesus was created, that's why he is called " Son of God "

OkCornel:
Great! I'll check it out at your site then...and also get a hard copy.

I think the topic is something like "Is life worth living?"... saw it yesterday around Ikeja or so...

Exactly . wow

In fact the website offer more publication on the subject . how to cope with depression , suicide thoughts etc .. Especially the awakes

solite3:
To be born of the spirit mean to means to carry the life of God.
I m a spirit presently but only in human flesh

This present earth is not the everlasting home of all those born of the Spirit that is why Jesus all those born of God will be where Jesus is.

Jesus said what is born of spirit is Spirit ! Stop twisting it .

If what is born of flesh is flesh is gotten by you as meaning f human born human, why don't you admit been born of spirit make one become a Spirit like God.

Okay, let me ask if what is born if spirit is spirit and you are a spirit presently, does that not mean Every human being on earth is a born again ?

OkCornel:
God bless you too!


On a side note, depression and hopelessness has been on the increase in Nigeria, a lot of people are becoming faint hearted. Suicide is on the increase...


What is JW doing to counsel people out of depression and suicidal thoughts?

This is an area of need I think true believers should be concerned about...

I'll appreciate you reply with testimonies as well.

Good question Sir , have you seen the way many of our publications address depression ?

Am glad to tell you that the present publication offered to our householders address this same issue

achorladey:
Jozzy4: Oh, they are currently seated in the heavenly places on earth and reigning presently?

Achorladey: Colossians 1:13, 14 He delivered us from the power of darkness and TRANSFERRED us to the KINGDOM of the SON he loves, 14 in whom we have redemption, the forgiveness of sins.

Oga Jozzy4 are you among those already TRANSFERED to the Kingdom of the SON. If you agree, are you equally SEATED in the HEAVENLY PLACES despite still ON THE EARTH?


Jozzy4: Planet Earth is now heavenly places?

Achorladey: Do we have HEAVENLY PLACES on the EARTH or NOT? were you to address the EARTH itself, will you call it a HEAVENLY BODY or EARTHLY BODY? If it's an HEAVENLY BODY, Does that not tell you we have HEAVENLY PLACES on the EARTH?

Jozzy4: captivator come and see something

Achorladey: Your friend will indeed see LITERALLY and not FIGURATIVELY.

Jozzy4: The 1000 Years has begun?

Achorladey: Did you see me state that the 1000 years has BEGUN? Does the world GOLDEN AGE rings bell to your hearing. Atleast when it comes to SPECULATIONS and ASSUMPTIONS based on dates the organization which you are a member are masters of it. e.g 100 years of Christ REIGN

Jozzy4: How many years did Paul spent on earth, I thought it should be 1000? Heavenly places indeed.

Achorladey: He spent 100,000 trillion years on EARTH? Whatever you think about 1000 is minimal to this one. Christ SEATED them in HEAVENLY places while those apostles were still on EARTH and have no HEAVENLY BODIES. Yes Heavenly places indeed.

Jozzy4: Reigning with Satan the ruler of this present world ?

Achorladey: That colossians 1:13 will just be fine.

Everybody on earth is seated in heavenly places ? @red

achorladey:
CAPTIVATOR: Earthly body.

Achorladey: You make me laugh, that SPIRIT was in EARTHLY BODY, so why did it need to materialize in order to be seen since its already in EARTHLY BODY?

CAPTIVATOR: That's why he was seen ALL THROUGH the forty days. Act 1:3

Achorladey: Did the Jesus materialize in order to be seen or not. After all you agreed he was resurrected in spirit. Did Jesus materialize? If JESUS indeed materialize. Is it from earthly body to earthly body or what?

CAPTIVATOR: It was when he ascend to heaven that he appeared in an heavenly body,

Achorladey: My problem is not about appearing or not appearing in an HEAVENLY BODY.

My discussion with you is WHEN did he get the HEAVENLY BODY? Right here on earth after resurrection or when he got back to HEAVEN?

Its called materialization because a spirit does not have flesh and Bone's. When he does possess one. It's termed materialization ..

Ressurected a spirit but materialized in a body of flesh since he hasn't returned to heaven

CAPTIVATOR: evidenced by his post ressurection appearance to Paul . and since then no man can see him again because he now dwell in unapproachable light.

Achorladey: What appearance did Paul see oooo.

Matthew 24:30
Then the sign of the Son of man will appear in heaven, and all the tribes of the earth will beat themselves in grief, and they WILL SEE THE SON of MAN coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

Will human see the SON of MAN again? It's the words of JESUS CHRIST not mine.

Yeah, Just the same way the dead soldiers who piercers him would.

Confused literalist

Note you have not addressed the UNAPPROACHABLE palaver. Are we still talking about JESUS CHRIST?

CAPTIVATOR: The men saw light but Paul saw the Glory of the light.

Achorladey: E get as e be oooo.

CAPTIVATOR: You probably miss one important information

ACT 22:6 ... Suddenly out of heaven a great light flashed ALL AROUND ME

The men were spectators , the main person who beheld the glory was Paul.


Achorladey: You are the one that made them SPECTATORS abi? No wonder you said they see the LIGHT and NOT the GLORY. As if the light they saw have absent glory in it or Paul mentioned the version they saw has absent glory in it.

CAPTIVATOR: That's the heavenly Jesus. Dwells in unapproachable light.

Achorladey: Is your Timothy cited about JESUS CHRIST?

Its Jesus

CAPTIVATOR: Calm down , Stephen only saw a vision. A VISION is totally different from REALITY.

Did Stephen saw the Glory of Jesus Christ or not in the VISION? Did he had to go to heaven to do so? Was Stephen in an HEAVENLY BODY in heaven to do so?

Vision is NOT reality!!! . U can tell us since Stephen saw Jesus standing at The right hand of God. He literally saw God too

Wake up from slumber

achorladey:
CAPTIVATOR: Even those who pierced him would see him. of course those Roman soldiers are still alive.

Achorladey: Revelation 1:6...

Look! He is coming with the clouds, and EVERY EYE WILL SEE HIM, and those who PIERCED HIM; and all the TRIBES of the EARTH will beat themselves in grief because of him. Yes, Amen

It states EVERY EYE WILL SEE HIM. I am not the writer of Revelation, and since the EYES of those who PIERCED HIM is included that's not a PROBLEM of MINE the LORD him said it in

Matthew 24:30

Then the sign of the Son of man will appear in heaven, and all the tribes of the earth will beat themselves in grief, AND THEY WILL SEE the SON OF MAN coming on the clouds of heaven with POWER and GREAT GLORY.

since the Lord states clearly those that PIERCED HIM will SEE him who are my to OVERTURN it.

You still remember this part from my previous post.....

Here it is again.........

CAPTIVATOR: It said Jesus entered with the cloud of heaven . HE IS HEAVENLY. not human

oh u think in your mind after coming before the ancient of days, he will go to earth to rule ?

stark ignorance.


Achorladey: Let me rephrase the above.......

It is said They will SEE the SON of MAN ARRIVING on the CLOUDS of HEAVEN with power and GREAT GLORY. He is indeed HEAVENLY not HUMAN.

Oh u think in your mind after going back into the heaven before the ancient of days, he cannot come back to earth to rule?

STARK IGNORANCE indeed.

Hahahahaha.

CAPTIVATOR: No enlightenment for you.

Achorladey: Oga CAPTIVATOR leave enlightenment alone, let ENLIGHTENMENT enjoy the life.

The Lord lied ? those men are dead and rotten in the dust of the earth . so how could that be ?

Confused literalist .

CAPTIVATOR: You saw " Great Glory " . didn't you ? Just remain like that!

Achorladey: I saw it BECAUSE I cited that scripture and have repeated it again here in this post. So? Perhaps you will need to consult the post before this one.

CAPTIVATOR: Where is Christ seated? Where is his throne?
According to the above scripture ... Was he seated on earth or heavenly places ?

In the system of things to come, where will Christ be seated as King?

Achorladey: Emphasis here on the AUTHORITY JESUS now HAS. Even before he was RESURRECTED back into HEAVEN and SEATED there, Matthew 28:18 said WHAT?
Matthew 28:18 Jesus approached and spoke to them, saying: “ALL AUTHORITY has been GIVEN me in HEAVEN and on the EARTH. Equally telling you all things are made SUBJECT under his feet.
He was still on EARTH when he said THIS ooooooo.

The same Jesus said it is finished, but a good Bible student knew that statement itself doesn't mean the ransom was paid immediately but it only an assurance of things to come , when he would appear before the Father in the heavens to obtain deliverance for adamic mankind


Same thing with his statement about been giving authority, that occurs when he returned to heaven, Study Daniel 7:13,14 very well and read 1Pet 3:22 .

1Pet 3:22 " He is at Gods right hand, [b] for he went to heaven, and angels AND AUTHORITIES and powers were made subject to him "

That occurred when he got to heaven.

[s]
Abi was he ALREADY seated in HEAVENLY places when he said the above? Hahahahaha.

CAPTIVATOR: Christ is seated in the heavenly places, where is his right hand and left hand sits located?


Achorladey: Emphasis here on the AUTHORITY JESUS now HAS. Even before he was RESURRECTED back into HEAVEN and SEATED there, Matthew 28:18 said WHAT?

Matthew 28:18 Jesus approached and spoke to them, saying: “ALL AUTHORITY has been GIVEN me in HEAVEN and on the EARTH. Equally telling you all things are made SUBJECT under his feet.
He was still on EARTH when he said THIS ooooooo.

Abi was he ALREADY seated in HEAVENLY places when he said the above? Hahahahaha.

Now the below...... [/s]

Christ is seated in the heavenly places now and in the Coming system of things


U can't change this sorry

Ephesians 2: 5 MADE us alive together with the Christ, even when we were dead in trespasses—by undeserved kindness you have BEEN SAVED. 6 Moreover, he RAISED us up TOGETHER and SEATED us together in the HEAVENLY PLACES in union with Christ Jesus, 7 so that in the coming SYSTEMS of THINGS he might demonstrate the surpassing riches of his undeserved kindness in his graciousness toward us in union with Christ Jesus.

When Paul was writing this, WAS HE SEATED already in HEAVENLY PLACES ? Are you among THOSE Paul is REFERRING to HERE? Does Paul have the HEAVENLY BODY as at THEN. Are you CAPTIVATOR seated in HEAVENLY PLACES PLACES now?

CAPTIVATOR: All are seated in the heavenly places. Read my earlier responses.

Achorladey: You have my response on the above, hope you get to understand it along with numerous other ones all over the thread.

Thank you!!!

This proved Christ and his co rulers would all be in heaven.

Paul was speaking of something that's certain to occur !

Let me illustrate, the Bible said Christ the lamb has been slained since the founding of the world . it speaks as though it has happened whereas Christ wasn't slained until 33CE . why that language in past tense ? From God's view the ransom is paid already . though it hasn't manifested physically

Same here, No wonder Paul adds " so that IN THE COMING SYSTEM OF THINGS he might demonstrate the surpassing riches of his undeserved kindness In his graciousness toward us in UNION WITH Christ Jesus "

So both Jesus and his co rulers would seat in the heavenly places

[s]
CAPTIVATOR: That's Christ alone.

Achorladey: In that part of my post I am making a case for CHRIST ALONE. So?

CAPTIVATOR: But for other co rulers , they shall RULE with him over the earth. only those on earth are their own subjects.

Achorladey: Revelation 5:10

You have appointed them as a kingdom and priests to serve our God, and they will REIGN ON THE EARTH.”

CAPTIVATOR: Christ and those he made King and Priest are heavenly. That's where THEY are SEATED

Achorladey: Revelation 5:10

You have appointed them as a kingdom and priests to serve our God, and they will REIGN ON THE EARTH.”

The reason for the question

Is there anything STOPPING CHRIST the HEAVENLY ONE from REIGNING with those he made KINGS and PRIEST ON THE EARTH?

CAPTIVATOR: Cut out of where?

Achorladey: Did you see ANYTHING relating to WHERE in the SCRIPTURE CITED?

CAPTIVATOR: You are clueless , does this not further proved that Gods kingdom Ruled from heaven over the earth?

Achorladey: Clueless detective, did you see FROM in the SCRIPTURE cited?

CAPTIVATOR: Not heavenly.

Achorladey: meaning he had MATERIALIZED when he stated what is recorded in that account. So why did he MATERIALIZED since he has no HEAVENLY BODY as at THEN.

CAPTIVATOR: If he was heavenly he won't be seen

Achorladey: So what did the DISCIPLE SAW? and what did that tell you about his BODY.

CAPTIVATOR: Present your evidence that he is already in heaven?

Achorladey: After repeatedly stating that when he was RESURRECTED he didn't return to HEAVEN but appeared to numerous people. Oga CAPTIVATOR go back and read my post on that.


CAPTIVATOR: That doesn't change the fact that THOSE on earth are subjects. Not kings

Achorladey: Who are the THOSE here?

CAPTIVATOR: For his co rulers, seated in the HEAVENLY PLACES, the earth is made subject to them.

Achorladey: You have my response on this already above.

CAPTIVATOR: How exactly does this make Christ earthly,

Achorladey: Did you see me state there that CHRIST is EARTHLY? Or try to prove that Christ is EARTHLY there?

CAPTIVATOR: are his armies Earthly?

Achorladey: Are Christ enemies HEAVENLY?

CAPTIVATOR: Christ is seated at where?

Achorladey: Emphasis here on the AUTHORITY JESUS now HAS. Even before he was RESURRECTED back into HEAVEN and SEATED there, Matthew 28:18 said WHAT?
Matthew 28:18 Jesus approached and spoke to them, saying: “ALL AUTHORITY has been GIVEN me in HEAVEN and on the EARTH. Equally telling you all things are made SUBJECT under his feet.
He was still on EARTH when he said THIS ooooooo.

Abi was he ALREADY seated in HEAVENLY places when he said the above? Hahahahaha.

CAPTIVATOR: He isn't heavenly . that doesn't make him earthly either because his flesh is MATERIALIZED like the ANGELS in the PAST.

Achorladey: what I need here is the word MATERIALIZED. Why did Jesus Christ Materialize just like the ANGELS? What body do ANGELS have that made them need to MATERIALIZE? Earthly or Heavenly?

CAPTIVATOR: To be a true earthly one, you must be born by a woman as flesh and blood. He has gotten past that phase.

Achorladey: I have told you it can only be from your mind if you feel I BELIEVE Christ need to enter the womb of MARY again to become FLESH and BONE.

Na your palaver.

I asked earlier before Jesus appeared to those that saw him after his resurrection DID HE ENTER MARY'S WOMB to do so? What does that tell you?
[/s]

achorladey:
CAPTIVATOR:Fixed!

Achorladey: You didn't fix anything rather you have just proved that indeed there is nothing stopping Christ from ruling with those he made KINGS and PRIEST ON THE EARTH.

Why did I say so, this is your second response to my post below........

CAPTIVATOR: He was ressurected as a SPIRIT. But a SPIRIT can APPEAR in an EARTHLY BODY. That doesn't make what is seen HEAVENLY.

Achorladey: If you had been patient with yourself when responding you will understand the point being made. Hahahahaha.

Here it is again according to CAPTIVATOR......He was RESURRECTED as a SPIRIT but a SPIRIT can APPEAR in an EARTHLY BODY.

So WHAT BODY was that spirit IN before it can appear in EARTHLY BODY?

and as at THEN has JESUS CHRIST returned back to HEAVEN?

CAPTIVATOR: He was ressurected as a Spirit. But a Spirit can appear in an earthly body. That doesn't make what is seen heavenly.

Achorladey: The response to my question below is what you typed above.

So why did JESUS CHRIST had to MATERIALIZED into FLESH and BONES if he was not resurrected in SPIRIT and didn't had the HEAVENLY BODY as at THEN?

Does your response not give you AWAY that before Christ ascend to HEAVEN he already has the HEAVENLY BODY. Hahahahaha.

After all you agreed he was resurrected in SPIRIT. It's open knowledge that GOD is a SPIRIT. I am wondering what difference you are trying to sort here?

Earthly body.

That's why he was seen ALL THROUGH the forty days . Act 1:3

It was when he ascend to heaven that he appeared in an heavenly body, evidenced by his post ressurection appearance to Paul . and since then no man can see h again because he now dwell in unapproachable light

CAPTIVATOR: Glory is all you saw, it would have helped you to check that John 17:5 and see the exact Glory been talked about.

Achorladey: I checked Oga CAPTIVATOR here is it as cited by you below



CAPTIVATOR: John 17:5

So now Father, glorify me at your side with the GLORY I HAD ALONGSIDE you before the world was At your side. Heavenly.

Achorladey: That's a confirmation that I saw what is cited in John 17:5

CAPTIVATOR: The above glory isnt earthly, you can revisit what happen to Paul on the way to Damascus

Achorladey: Sure I will

CAPTIVATOR: I could not see anything because of the glory of that light"


Achorladey: Acts 22:9-11

Now the men who were with me DID SEE the LIGHT, but they did NOT HEAR the VOICE of the one speaking to me. 10 At that I said: ‘What should I do, Lord?’ The Lord said to me: ‘Rise, go into Damascus, and there you will be told about everything it is appointed for you to do.’ 11 But since I could not see anything because of the GLORY of THAT LIGHT, I arrived in Damascus led by the hand of those who were with me.

That's WHAT happened to Paul on his way to Damascus, PAUL did not see ANYTHING because of the GLORY of that LIGHT yet THOSE WITH HIM SAW IT. So?

Perhaps you might now go and take a look below concerning WHAT HAPPENED TO STEPHEN.

The men saw light but Paul saw the Glory of the light.

You probably miss one important information

ACT 22:6 " ... Suddenly out of heaven a great light flashed ALL AROUND ME "

The men were spectators , the main person who beheld the glory was Paul .

That's the heavenly Jesus. Dwells in unapproachable light

Acts 7 : 54-57

Well, at hearing these things, they were infuriated in their hearts and began to grind their teeth at him. 55 But he, being full of holy spirit, gazed into HEAVEN and caught SIGHT of GOD’S GLORY and of JESUS STANDING at GOD’S RIGHT HAND, 56 and he said: “Look! I see the heavens opened up and the SON of MAN STANDING at God’s RIGHT HAND.”

Did STEPHEN see JESUS GLORY? Did STEPHEN ASCEND to HEAVEN and see JESUS CHRIST in HIS HEAVENLY GLORY? DID STEPHEN saw CHRIST HEAVENLY BODY?

John 1:8,9.......He was not that light , but he was meant to bear witness about that LIGHT. 9 The true LIGHT that gives LIGHT to every sort of man was about to COME into THE WORLD.

John 1: 14......

So the Word became flesh and resided among us, and we had a VIEW of HIS GLORY, a GLORY such as BELONGS to an only-begotten SON from a FATHER; and he was full of DIVINE FAVOR and TRUTH


CAPTIVATOR: Jesus dwells in APPROACHABLE LIGHT.

Achorladey: You mean to type UNAPPROACHABLE LIGHT isn't it?

Here is 1 Timothy 6:14-16

14 to observe the commandment in a spotless and irreprehensible way until the MANIFESTATION of OUR Lord JESUS CHRIST, 15 which the happy and only Potentate will SHOW in its OWN APPOINTED TIMES. He is the King of those who rule as kings and Lord of those who rule as lords, 16 the one alone having immortality, who dwells in UNAPPROACHABLE LIGHT, whom no MAN has SEEN or can SEE. To him be honor and eternal might. Amen.

Concerning this your UNAPPROACHABLE LIGHT palaver, are we still TALKING about JESUS CHRIST here or not?

Why did I say so, the JW THEOLOGY has an interesting EXPLANATION to the scripture you have cited. You might want to DELVE into it before I bring it up.


CAPTIVATOR: everything in your write up point to JESUS APPEARING in an earthly body.

Achorladey: Jesus was resurrected in SPIRIT. The bible states so, You said he MATERIALIZED in order to be SEEN. Then I asked why did JESUS CHRIST MATERIALIZE into what can be SEEN if the HEAVENLY BODY is still ABSENT while STILL on EARTH?

But your response to the question is addressed above already.

CAPTIVATOR: He needs to be In heaven to appear in his heavenly body. The word " earthly ' and " heavenly " indicate two different dimensions.

Achorladey: When did JESUS GET THAT HEAVENLY BODY. is it when JESUS CHRIST got back to HEAVEN or when HE WAS RESURRECTED?

Funny aspect to what you typed above will mean those that will SEE JESUS CHRIST must also ASCEND to HEAVEN, have HEAVENLY BODIES like him in order to do so abi? Hahahahahaha.

I was wondering what Stephen saw while on earth before his death? Did Stephen have HEAVENLY BODY before he saw the SON of MAN, did he ASCEND to HEAVEN to do so?

CAPTIVATOR: When scripture calls him heavenly one. He belongs to the heavens

Achorladey: WHEN JESUS came to earth from where did JESUS CHRIST come from? HEAVEN.

Since you know HE BELONGS to the HEAVENS,

Is there anything STOPPING CHRIST the HEAVENLY ONE from REIGNING with those he made KINGS and PRIEST ON THE EARTH?

Calm down , Stephen only saw a vision. A vision is totally different from reality .

Just seeing this, would respond soon.

achorladey:
CAPTIVATOR:Fixed!

Achorladey: You didn't fix anything rather you have just proved that indeed there is nothing stopping Christ from ruling with those he made KINGS and PRIEST ON THE EARTH.

Why did I say so, this is your second response to my post below........

CAPTIVATOR: He was ressurected as a SPIRIT. But a SPIRIT can APPEAR in an EARTHLY BODY. That doesn't make what is seen HEAVENLY.

Achorladey: If you had been patient with yourself when responding you will understand the point being made. Hahahahaha.

Here it is again according to CAPTIVATOR......He was RESURRECTED as a SPIRIT but a SPIRIT can APPEAR in an EARTHLY BODY.

So WHAT BODY was that spirit IN before it can appear in EARTHLY BODY?

and as at THEN has JESUS CHRIST returned back to HEAVEN?

CAPTIVATOR: He was ressurected as a Spirit. But a Spirit can appear in an earthly body. That doesn't make what is seen heavenly.

Achorladey: The response to my question below is what you typed above.

So why did JESUS CHRIST had to MATERIALIZED into FLESH and BONES if he was not resurrected in SPIRIT and didn't had the HEAVENLY BODY as at THEN?

Does your response not give you AWAY that before Christ ascend to HEAVEN he already has the HEAVENLY BODY. Hahahahaha.

After all you agreed he was resurrected in SPIRIT. It's open knowledge that GOD is a SPIRIT. I am wondering what difference you are trying to sort here?

CAPTIVATOR: Glory is all you saw, it would have helped you to check that John 17:5 and see the exact Glory been talked about.

Achorladey: I checked Oga CAPTIVATOR here is it as cited by you below



CAPTIVATOR: John 17:5

So now Father, glorify me at your side with the GLORY I HAD ALONGSIDE you before the world was At your side. Heavenly.

Achorladey: That's a confirmation that I saw what is cited in John 17:5

CAPTIVATOR: The above glory isnt earthly, you can revisit what happen to Paul on the way to Damascus

Achorladey: Sure I will

CAPTIVATOR: I could not see anything because of the glory of that light"


Achorladey: Acts 22:9-11

Now the men who were with me DID SEE the LIGHT, but they did NOT HEAR the VOICE of the one speaking to me. 10 At that I said: ‘What should I do, Lord?’ The Lord said to me: ‘Rise, go into Damascus, and there you will be told about everything it is appointed for you to do.’ 11 But since I could not see anything because of the GLORY of THAT LIGHT, I arrived in Damascus led by the hand of those who were with me.

That's WHAT happened to Paul on his way to Damascus, PAUL did not see ANYTHING because of the GLORY of that LIGHT yet THOSE WITH HIM SAW IT. So?

Perhaps you might now go and take a look below concerning WHAT HAPPENED TO STEPHEN.


Acts 7 : 54-57

Well, at hearing these things, they were infuriated in their hearts and began to grind their teeth at him. 55 But he, being full of holy spirit, gazed into HEAVEN and caught SIGHT of GOD’S GLORY and of JESUS STANDING at GOD’S RIGHT HAND, 56 and he said: “Look! I see the heavens opened up and the SON of MAN STANDING at God’s RIGHT HAND.”

Did STEPHEN see JESUS GLORY? Did STEPHEN ASCEND to HEAVEN and see JESUS CHRIST in HIS HEAVENLY GLORY? DID STEPHEN saw CHRIST HEAVENLY BODY?

John 1:8,9.......He was not that light , but he was meant to bear witness about that LIGHT. 9 The true LIGHT that gives LIGHT to every sort of man was about to COME into THE WORLD.

John 1: 14......

So the Word became flesh and resided among us, and we had a VIEW of HIS GLORY, a GLORY such as BELONGS to an only-begotten SON from a FATHER; and he was full of DIVINE FAVOR and TRUTH


CAPTIVATOR: Jesus dwells in APPROACHABLE LIGHT.

Achorladey: You mean to type UNAPPROACHABLE LIGHT isn't it?

Here is 1 Timothy 6:14-16

14 to observe the commandment in a spotless and irreprehensible way until the MANIFESTATION of OUR Lord JESUS CHRIST, 15 which the happy and only Potentate will SHOW in its OWN APPOINTED TIMES. He is the King of those who rule as kings and Lord of those who rule as lords, 16 the one alone having immortality, who dwells in UNAPPROACHABLE LIGHT, whom no MAN has SEEN or can SEE. To him be honor and eternal might. Amen.

Concerning this your UNAPPROACHABLE LIGHT palaver, are we still TALKING about JESUS CHRIST here or not?

Why did I say so, the JW THEOLOGY has an interesting EXPLANATION to the scripture you have cited. You might want to DELVE into it before I bring it up.


CAPTIVATOR: everything in your write up point to JESUS APPEARING in an earthly body.

Achorladey: Jesus was resurrected in SPIRIT. The bible states so, You said he MATERIALIZED in order to be SEEN. Then I asked why did JESUS CHRIST MATERIALIZE into what can be SEEN if the HEAVENLY BODY is still ABSENT while STILL on EARTH?

But your response to the question is addressed above already.

CAPTIVATOR: He needs to be In heaven to appear in his heavenly body. The word " earthly ' and " heavenly " indicate two different dimensions.

Achorladey: When did JESUS GET THAT HEAVENLY BODY. is it when JESUS CHRIST got back to HEAVEN or when HE WAS RESURRECTED?

Funny aspect to what you typed above will mean those that will SEE JESUS CHRIST must also ASCEND to HEAVEN, have HEAVENLY BODIES like him in order to do so abi? Hahahahahaha.

I was wondering what Stephen saw while on earth before his death? Did Stephen have HEAVENLY BODY before he saw the SON of MAN, did he ASCEND to HEAVEN to do so?

CAPTIVATOR: When scripture calls him heavenly one. He belongs to the heavens

Achorladey: WHEN JESUS came to earth from where did JESUS CHRIST come from? HEAVEN.

Since you know HE BELONGS to the HEAVENS,

Is there anything STOPPING CHRIST the HEAVENLY ONE from REIGNING with those he made KINGS and PRIEST ON THE EARTH?

achorladey:
CAPTIVATOR: It said Jesus entered with the cloud of heaven . HE IS HEAVENLY. not human
oh u think in your mind after coming before the ancient of days, he will go to earth to rule ? stark ignorance.

Achorladey: Let me rephrase the above.......

It is said They will SEE the SON of MAN ARRIVING on the CLOUDS of HEAVEN with power and great glory. He is indeed HEAVENLY not HUMAN.

Oh u think in your mind after going back into the heaven before the ancient of days, he cannot come back to earth to rule?

STARK IGNORANCE indeed.

Even those who pierced him would see him . of course those Roman soldiers are still alive.

No enlightenment for you.

You saw " Great Glory " . didn't you ? Just remain like that!

CAPTIVATOR: "[God] raised him up from the dead and seated him at his right hand in the HEAVENLY PLACES,... not only in this system of things BUT ALSO IN THAT TO COME" Eph 1:20,21

Achorladey: This is Ephesians 1:20,21

20 which he exercised toward Christ when he raised him up from the dead and seated him at his right hand in the heavenly places, 21 far above every government and authority and power and lordship and every name that is named, not only in this system of things but also in that to come.

You want to try colour the verse to mean JESUS was seated PERMANENTLY in heaven abi? Hahahahaha.

Where is Christ seated ? Where is his throne ?

According to the above scripture ... Was he seated on earth or heavenly places ?

Emphasis here on the AUTHORITY JESUS now HAS. Even before he was RESURRECTED back into HEAVEN and SEATED there, Matthew 28:18 said WHAT?

Matthew 28:18 Jesus approached and spoke to them, saying: “ALL AUTHORITY has been GIVEN me in HEAVEN and on the EARTH. Equally telling you all things are made SUBJECT under his feet.

He was still on EARTH when he said THIS ooooooo. Abi was he ALREADY seated in HEAVENLY places when he said the above? Hahahahaha.

In the system of things to come, where will Christ be seated as King ?

CAPTIVATOR: what about his associate king and priest?

Achorladey: and what about them?

CAPTIVATOR: Jesus replied two of his disciples whom he promised to sit on thrones, sitting at my right hand and left hand is left for those whom the father has reserved it. clearly, they will be with him in the heavenly places.

Achorladey: Just show us HOW it was CLEARLY stated in the scripture you cited that they will be with him in the HEAVEN. This is the scripture below though.

Matthew 20: 20,21 Then the mother of the sons of Zebʹe·dee approached him with her sons, doing obeisance and asking for something from him. 21 He said to her: “What do you want?” She replied to him: “Give the word that these two sons of mine may sit down, one at your right hand and one at your left, in your Kingdom.”

Matthew 20:23.....He said to them: “You will indeed drink my cup, but to sit down at my right hand and at my left is not mine to give, but it belongs to those for whom it has been prepared by my Father.

Christ is seated in the heavenly places, where is his right hand and left hand sits located ?

CAPTIVATOR: that bring to reality the earlier scripture " like the heavenly one, so also are those who are heavenly"

Achorladey: Is there anything STOPPING CHRIST the HEAVENLY ONE from REIGNING with those he made KINGS and PRIEST(HEAVENLY like the HEAVENLY ONE) ON THE EARTH?

All are seated in the heavenly places. Read my earlier responses

CAPTIVATOR: dont forget Dan 7:13,14 ... THE NATIONS ON EARTH AND PEOPLES ARE SUBJECTS serving the heaveanly king. LOL

Achorladey: At the time Christ made the statement in Matthew 28:18 was he HEAVENLY or NOT? Is his statement not an INDICATOR that all things are made to subject to him?
and yet the above still do not change this question below

That's Christ alone.

But for other co rulers , they shall RULE with him over the earth. only those on earth are their own subjects .

Is there anything STOPPING CHRIST the HEAVENLY ONE from REIGNING with those he made KINGS and PRIEST ON THE EARTH?

Christ and those he made King and Priest are heavenly. That's where THEY are SEATED

CAPTIVATOR: the bolded reveal this kingdom and its ruler are heavenly, while the earthly kings are ruling . God set up that kingdom. it was invisible until it crushed them and extend its dominion to the earth.

Achorladey:All of a sudden the kingdom has become INVISIBLE. Hahahahaha! How will it not be INVISIBLE when JESUS CHRIST came INVISIBLY too in years back. Hahahahaha. but will be VISIBLE when he ARRIVES to JUDGE in future. Hahahahaha!

Here is the scripture related to the one you BOLDED once again.

Daniel 2: 34,35 YOU LOOKED on UNTIL a STONE was cut OUT , not by HANDS, and it struck the image on its feet of iron and of clay and crushed them. 35 At that time the iron, the clay, the copper, the silver, and the gold were, all together, crushed and became like the chaff from the summer threshing floor, and the wind carried them away so that not a trace of them could be found. BUT the STONE that struck the IMAGE became a large MOUNTAIN, and it FILLED the WHOLE EARTH.

Cut out of where ?

You are clueless , does this not further proved that Gods kingdom Ruled from heaven over the earth ?

CAPTIVATOR: dont forget Dan 7:13,14 ... THE NATIONS AND PEOPLES ARE SUBJECTS serving the heaveanly king.

Achorladey: At the time Christ made the statement in Matthew 28:18 /was he HEAVENLY or NOT? Is his statement not an INDICATOR that all things are made to subject to him?

Not heavenly. If he was heavenly he won't be seen

Present your evidence that he is already in heaven?

and yet the above still do not change the scripture below

because by means of him all other things were created in the heavens and on the earth, the things visible and the things invisible, whether they are THRONES or LORDSHIPS or GOVERNMENTS or AUTHORITIES. All other things have been created through him and for him.

and they are equally SUBJECTED to him.

That doesn't change the fact that those on earth are subjects. Not kings

For his co rulers, seated in the heavenly places, the earth is made subject to them .

CAPTIVATOR: THATS WHAT destroyed your theory.

Achorladey: You didn't even answer the question not to talk of destroying the theory.

CAPTIVATOR: he is seated in the heavenly places now and forever!

Achorladey: Daniel 12:1 During that time MIʹCHA·EL will STAND UP, the great prince who is standing in BEHALF of YOUR PEOPLE. And there will occur a time of distress such as has not occurred since there came to be a nation until that time . And during that time your people will escape, everyone who is found written down in the book.

Revelation 19: 11 I saw heaven opened, and look! a white horse. And the one seated on it is called Faithful and True, and he judges and carries on war in righteousness. 12 His eyes are a fiery flame, and on his head are many diadems. He has a name written that no one knows but he himself, 13 and he is clothed with an outer garment stained with blood, and he is called by the name The Word of God.

Revelation 19:19.....And I saw the wild beast and the KINGS of the EARTH and their armies gathered together to WAGE WAR against the ONE SEATED on the HORSE and AGAINST his ARMY.

Oga CAPTIVATOR is your LORD SEATED FOREVER or WILL STAND UP in future on BEHALF of HIS PEOPLE to WAGE WAR against HIS ENEMIES?

How exactly does this make Christ earthly , are his armies Earthly ?

Christ is seated at where ?

CAPTIVATOR: and the nations are his subjects as shown at Daniel 7:13,14 not kings.

Achorladey: At the time Christ made the statement in Matthew 28:18 was he HEAVENLY or NOT? Is his statement not an INDICATOR that all things are made to subject to him?

and yet the above still do not change this question below


Is there anything STOPPING CHRIST the HEAVENLY ONE from REIGNING with those he made KINGS and PRIEST ON THE EARTH?

He isn't heavenly . that doesn't make him earthly either because his flesh is materialized like the angels in the past.

To be a true earthly one, you must be born by a woman as flesh and blood. He has gotten past that phase.

achorladey:
Jozzy4: hahahahahaha heavenly body?

Achorladey: This will will mean you believe according to Acts 1:3 Jesus by then he didn't have heavenly body as at then. Abi no be so? Which mean when he was resurrected he still has ^{appeared in} EARTHLY BODY. So how does earthly body looks like?

Please don't come back and tell me it's a MATERIALIZED body. There is a question already in store on that for you.

Fixed!

Jozzy4: shuuuuu . what they saw his MATERIALIZED flesh and bones not HEAVENLY BODY.

Achorladey: So why did JESUS CHRIST had to MATERIALIZED into FLESH and BONES if he was not resurrected in SPIRIT and didn't had the HEAVENLY BODY as at then? Except you don't agree with the JW theology again.

He was ressurected as a Spirit. But a Spirit can appear in an earthly body. That doesn't make what is seen heavenly.

Jozzy4: he hasnt returned to heaven to receive his heavenly glory which he had before the earth was made (John 17;5)

Achorladey: When I cited Acts 1:3 did it state he has returned to heaven? No is the answer.

But does that mean he has not received his glory or lost his glory?

John 1:14. So the Word became flesh and resided among us, and we had a view of his glory, a glory such as belongs to an only-begotten son from a father; and he was full of DIVINE FAVOR and TRUTH.

2 Peter 17 For he received from GOD the FATHER HONOR and GLORY when WORDS such as THESE were CONVEYED to HIM by the MAGNIFICENT GLORY: “This is my Son, my BELOVED, WHOM I MYSELF have APPROVED.”18 Yes, these words we heard coming from HEAVEN while we were WITH HIM in the holy mountain.


Hebrews 1:5,6 For to which of the angels did God ever say, “You are my son! Today I have fathered you”? And in another place he says, “I will be his father and he will be my son.” 6 But when he again brings his FIRSTBORN into the world, he says, “Let all the angels of God WORSHIP HIM!” 

After all, it is still in the NAME of JESUS CHRIST every knee must BOW. Hahahahaha That's is the name he was given right from BIRTH. So how come did he LOST THE GLORY.

Jozzy4: that glory is not earthly, in fact he had to empty it and be born of a woman to walk this earth ,those disciples cant behold it, . back to heaven , Christ is now heavenly WITH GLORY.

Achorladey: The scripture below will be just fine for the above comment.

So the Word became flesh and resided among us, and we had a VIEW of HIS GLORY, a GLORY such as BELONGS to an ONLY -BEGOTTEN SON from a father; and he was full of divine favor and truth.


Jozzy4: unless u mean he will have to be born as human a second time to as to empty his glory and come to earth.

Achorladey: The ASSUMPTION above can only be from your own THINKING not MINE.

When he was RESURRECTED did he ENTERED into the womb of MARY in order to get a MATERIALIZED FLESH and BONE for those that Acts 1:3 mentioned could see him? Hahahahaha!

The reason I asked you earlier in this post WHY DID HE MATERIALIZED when he(Jesus Christ) was RESURRECTED in order to be SEEN by others? Did Jesus have his HEAVENLY BODY as at then or not?


Jozzy4: like captivator said. u are making a useless argument.

Achorladey: After reading you will know if indeed the point of your friend had made is valid or not.

Glory is all you saw, it would have helped you to check that John 17:5 and see the exact Glory been talked about.



John 17:5

So now Father, glorify me at your side with the GLORY I HAD ALONGSIDE you before the world was

At your side. Heavenly.

The above glory isnt earthly, you can revisit what happen to Paul on the way to Damascus

" I could not see anything because of the glory of that light "

Jesus dwells in APPROACHABLE LIGHT.


everything in your write up point to Jesus appearing in an earthly body. He needs to be In heaven to appear in his heavenly body. The word " earthly ' and " heavenly " indicate two different dimensions.

When scripture calls him heavenly one. He belongs to the heavens


cc Jozzy4

achorladey:
CAPTIVATOR: Daniel 7:13,14 Location of government is heaven.

Achorladey: This is Daniel 7:13,14  

“I kept watching in the visions of the night, and look! with the clouds of the heavens, someone like a son of man was coming; and he gained access to the Ancient of Days, and they brought him up close before that One. 14 And to him there were given rulership, honor, and a kingdom, that the peoples, nations, and language groups should all serve him. His rulership is an everlasting rulership that will not pass away, and his kingdom will not be destroyed

No where in the scripture cited by you states a KINGDOM GIVEN to JESUS CHRIST is LOCATED THERE.

It said Jesus entered with the cloud of heaven . HE IS HEAVENLY. not human
oh u think in your mind after coming before the ancient of days, he will go to earth to rule ? stark ignorance .

" [God] raised him up from the dead and seated him at his right hand in the HEAVENLY PLACES,... not only in this system of things BUT ALSO IN THAT TO COME " _ Eph 1:20,21

what about his associate king and priest ?

Jesus replied two of his disciples ehom he promised to sit on thrones, sitting at my right hand and left hand is left for those whom the father has reserved it. clearly, they will be with him in the heavenly places

that bring to reality the earlier scripture " like the heavenly one, so also are those who are heavenly"

dont forget Dan 7:13,14 ... THE NATIONS ON EARTH AND PEOPLES ARE SUBJECTS serving the heaveanly king. LOL

After all where did the BIBLE states God's MOUNTAIN is ESTABLISHED?


CAPTIVATOR: Daniel 2:44 God set up that kingdom in the days of earthly kings.

Achorladey: This is

Daniel 2:44....In the days of those kings the God of heaven will set up a kingdom that will never be destroyed. And this kingdom will not be passed on to any other people. It will crush and put an end to all these kingdoms, and it alone will stand forever,45just as you saw that out of the mountain a stone was cut not by hands, and that it crushed the iron, the copper, the clay, the silver, and the gold. The Grand God has made known to the king what will happen in the future. The dream is true, and its interpretation is trustworthy.”

In relation to the above have you reaa this.... ...

Daniel 2: 34, 35
You looked on until a stone was cut out, not by hands, and it struck the image on its feet of iron and of clay and crushed them. 35 At that time the iron, the clay, the copper, the silver, and the gold were, all together, crushed and became like the chaff from the summer threshing floor, and the wind carried them away so that not a trace of them could be found. BUT the STONE that struck the IMAGE became a large MOUNTAIN, and it FILLED the WHOLE EARTH.

When linked with

Micah 4:1 In the final part of the days,The MOUNTAIN of the HOUSE of JEHOVAH Will become firmly ESTABLISHED above the top of the MOUNTAINS, And it will be raised up above the HILLS,And to it PEOPLES will stream.


CAPTIVATOR: which reveals its not from this SOURCE.

you are just clueless, so something filled the earth yet people are streaming to it ? look at yourself .

the bolded reveal this kingdom and its ruler are heavenly, while the earthly kings are ruling . God set up that kingdom. it was invisible until it crushed them and extend its dominion to the earth.

dont forget Dan 7:13,14 ... THE NATIONS AND PEOPLES ARE SUBJECTS serving the heaveanly king

Achorladey: The questions still remain........... Is there anything STOPPING CHRIST the HEAVENLY ONE from REIGNING with those he made KINGS and PRIEST ON THE EARTH?


The word here is "SOURCE" and the Daniel 7:13,14 you cited states CHRIST was GIVEN a KINGDOM, RULERSHIP and HONOUR not by HUMANS but by the ANCIENT of DAYS who resides in the heaven. Concerning the LOCATION of the KINGDOM, it's not stated in THAT SCRIPTURE.

CAPTIVATOR: Revelation 12:10 " Now have come the KINGDOM... OF OUR GOD " . that's at a time the earth was said to experience woe.

Achorladey: Now a look at this scriptures

Luke 13: 28-30...... There is where your weeping and the gnashing of your teeth will be, when you see ABRAHAM, ISAAC, JACOB, and all the prophets IN THE KINGDOM of GOD, but you yourselves thrown outside. 29 Furthermore, people will come from east and west and from north and south, and will recline at the table IN THE KINGDOM of GOD.


Matthew 8:10-12.......When Jesus heard that, he was amazed and said to those following him: “I tell you the truth, with no one in Israel have I found so great a faith. 11 But I tell you that many from east and west will come and recline at the table with Abraham and Isaac and Jacob IN THE KINGDOM of THE HEAVENS; 12 whereas the SONS OF the KINGDOM will be THROWN into the DARKNESS OUTSIDE. There is where their weeping and the gnashing of their teeth will be.”

Luke 17:20,21 On being asked by the Pharisees when the KINGDOM of GOD was COMING, he answered them: “The KINGDOM of GOD is not coming with striking observableness; 21 nor will people say, ‘See here!’ or, ‘There!’ For look! the KINGDOM of GOD is in YOUR MIDST.”


Revelation 11:15..... The seventh angel blew his trumpet. And there were loud voices in heaven, saying: “THE KINGDOM of THE WORLD has become the KINGDOM of OUR LORD and of his CHRIST, and he will rule as KING FOREVER and EVER.”

CAPTIVATOR: Its useless arguing this.

Achorladey: Didn't I tell you to take a closer look at the usage of those terms you responded to here?

CAPTIVATOR: Heavenly one means residing in the heavens.

Achorladey: Is there anything STOPPING CHRIST the HEAVENLY ONE from REIGNING with those he made KINGS and PRIEST ON THE EARTH?

THATS WHAT destroyed your theory. he is seated in the heavenly places now and forever!

and the nations are his subjects as shown at Daniel 7:13,14 not kings.

Jozzy4:
hahahahahaha heavenly body ? shuuuuu . what they saw his materialized flesh and bones not heavenly body. he hasnt returned to heaven to receive his heavenly glory which he had before the earth was made (John 17;5) that glory is not earthly, in fact he had to empty it and be born of a woman to walk this earth ,those disciples cant behold it, . back to heaven , Christ is now heavenly WITH GLORY.

unless u mean he will have to be born as human a second time to as to empty his glory and come to earth. like captivator said. u are making a useless argument .

captivator viewing, evening bro.

He has no clue . to think the same appearance after his ressurection is the same with the one Paul met on the way to Damascus is stark ignorance .

achorladey:
CAPTIVATOR: I am responding to this first because it is a dead attempt to change the truth.

Achorladey: Change what TRUTH?

CAPTIVATOR: Are you aware that many of these translation that says " ON " actually translated the same word as " OVER " at Matthew 18:13?

Achorladey: Didn't you see my explanation on the use of ON as it relates to other verses in Revelation chapter 5. You are taking me to Matthew 18:13.

CAPTIVATOR: Like jozy pointed out. You never gave attentiom to this . Giving credence to a translation that uses over the earth. So let's see what the facts reveal.

Achorladey: Were you not the one who respond on his behalf? Go back to the post and see.

I hope to see what the fact REVEAL.

CAPTIVATOR: The Kingdom is a Kingdom of Heaven.

Achorladey: Yes

CAPTIVATOR: That's the location of government.

Achorladey: Really? Have you taken a second look at it? I only see this as a statement from you nothing more to it. Take a second look at use of "KINGDOM of HEAVEN", and "KINGDOM OF GOD" and "IN THE KINGDOM of the HEAVENS".

Daniel 7:13,14 Location of government is heaven.

Daniel 2:44 God set up that kingdom in the days of earthly kings . which reveals its not from this source .
Revelation 12:10 " Now have come the Kingdom... of our God " . that's at a time the earth was said to experience woe.


Its useless arguing this.

CAPTIVATOR: You would have understand if you took time to reflect on Jesus been called " heavenly one" together with those with the heavenly calling.


Achorladey: How does the above answer the question

Is there anything STOPPING CHRIST the HEAVENLY ONE from REIGNING with those he made KINGS and PRIEST ON THE EARTH?

CAPTIVATOR: "Like the heavenly one, so too are those who are heavenly"

Achorladey: Same question applies to these ones as well, that they are like the HEAVENLY ONE

Is there anything STOPPING CHRIST from REIGNING with those( HEAVENLY ONE) he made KINGS and PRIEST ON THE EARTH?

CAPTIVATOR: He was a materialized flesh Not Spirit at that moment he met Mary. Mary can't see him in spirit form so he materialized. The way he appears and disappears at will like angels in the past proved this.

Achorladey: and then

CAPTIVATOR: He later said he wasn't a spirit because a spirit won't have flesh and bones as he had at that moment. That's just to make him visible to his apostles. All that lasted till he return to the spirit realm , years later apostle Paul regarded him as the heavenly one.

Achorladey: Was JESUS who was RAISED as A SPIRIT not HEAVENLY when he was resurrected? Or is it until JESUS got back to HEAVEN he became HEAVENLY?

CAPTIVATOR: Spirit is not flesh.

Achorladey: I know.

CAPTIVATOR: Whatever has been born from spirit is Spirit " John 3:6 . which gives this rulers together with Christ the heavenly hope as Spirits.

Achorladey: How does the above answer the question

Is there anything STOPPING CHRIST from REIGNING with those he made KINGS and PRIEST ON THE EARTH.

Heavenly one means residing in the heavens.

achorladey:
Revelation 5:10 You have appointed them as a kingdom and priests to serve our God, and they will REIGN ON THE EARTH.”

am responding to this first because it is a dead attempt to change the truth. Are you aware that many of these translation that says " ON " actually translated the same word as " OVER " at Matthew 18:13 ? Like jozy pointed out. You never gave attentiom to this . Giving credence to a translation that uses over the earth . So let's see what the facts reveal .

How does the above answer the QUESTION you bolded?

Is there anything STOPPING CHRIST from REIGNING with those he made KINGS and PRIEST ON THE EARTH?

The Kingdom is a Kingdom of Heaven. That's the location of government. You would have understand if you took time to reflect on Jesus been called " heavenly one" together with those with the heavenly calling .

" Like the heavenly one, so too are those who are heavenly "

1 Peter 3:18....Because Christ also suffered once for sins, the just for the unjust, to bring you to God, by being put to death in the flesh but by being made ALIVE in THE SPIRIT.

John 20:17,18 Jesus replied, “Do not touch me, for I have not yet ascended to my Father. Go to my brothers and tell them, ‘I am ascending to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God.’” 18 Mary Magdalene came and informed the disciples, “I have SEEN the LORD!” And she told them what JESUS had SAID to HER.


ALIVE in the SPIRIT RIGHT HERE on EARTH abi no be so?
Abi na HEAVENLY or HEAVEN dey RESURRECT JESUS?

Except you abandon one major THEOLOGY of JWS in order for your EXPLANATION above on the key terms expressed in there such as (HEAVENLY, DIVINE NATURE, BORN FROM SPIRIT) that he was NOT MADE ALIVE in SPIRIT.

So I asked once AGAIN Is there anything STOPPING CHRIST from REIGNING with those he made KINGS and PRIEST ON THE EARTH?

He was a materialized flesh Not Spirit at that moment he met Mary. Mary can't see him in spirit form so he materialized. The way he appears and disappears at will like angels in the past proved this.

He later said he wasn't a spirit because a spirit won't have flesh and bones as he had at that moment. That's just to make him visible to his apostles. All that lasted till he return to the spirit realm , years later apostle Paul regarded him as the heavenly one.


Spirit is not flesh. Whatever has been born from spirit is Spirit " John 3:6 . which gives this rulers together with Christ the heavenly hope as Spirits.

Jozzy4:
Thank you. Jesus throne is located on planet earth I guess ...

How are you?

Am fine. Now that's funny .

achorladey:
CAPTIVATOR: they will rule over the earth.” CJB

"they shall reign over the earth." Darby

Just some two of the many translation that RENDERED IT PROPERLY.

Achorladey: How did you know THEY RENDERED IT PROPERLY?

Did you see the ORIGINAL ONE penned down by Apostle JOHN HIMSELF?

Did Apostle John Tell you face to face the actual meaning of the word he used there in ENGLISH means OVER instead of ON?

What about other numerous translation that used ON?


CAPTIVATOR: This was why I asked the other time, If you have a contrary opinion, from where will Christ Reign On earth?

Achorladey: You should by now have seen my response on that. The discussion didn't contain "FROM" you introduced it yourself. It was centered on "ON THE EARTH".


Is there anything STOPPING CHRIST from REIGNING with those he made KINGS and PRIEST ON THE EARTH?

CAPTIVATOR: U are easily forgetting Christ also reign on/over earth, and this ones reign with him...that where I am, you also may be " John 14:3

Achorladey: Oga CAPTIVATOR I am not forgetting anything here. I told you you clearly Christ returned back to heaven. Didn't I.


John 14:3 And if I go and make ready a place for you, I WILL COME AGAIN and TAKE YOU to BE WITH ME, so that WHERE I AM you MAY BE TOO.


Before "where am I you may also be" don't forget that scripture state JESUS CHRIST WILL COME AGAIN. Again to where?

John 14:28. You heard me say to you, ‘I AM GOING AWAY AND I AM COMING BACK to you.’ If you loved me, you would be glad that I am going to the Father, because the Father is greater than I am. 

John 14:23....Jesus replied, “If anyone loves me, he will obey my word, and my Father will love him, and we will come to him and TAKE UP RESIDENCE with HIM.

CAPTIVATOR: From where?

Achorladey:You introduce "FROM" not a palaver of mine to sort.

" and like the heavenly one, so too are those who are heavenly " 1 Cor 15:48

Christ is now an heavenly being, with the divine nature . not earthly. This divine nature is what those to rule and kings partook of. Didn't you read that in your bible ?

" What has been born from spirit is Spirit " John 3:6

The spiritual birth which members of the new covenant undergo is a change to a spirit form by virtue of their ressurection . if there Is a physical body, there is also a spiritual one.

This is why Heaven is their dwelling place. Partakers of heavenly calling.Heb 3:1

achorladey:
CAPTIVATOR: So far you agree Jesus returned to heaven,

Achorladey: Yes

CAPTIVATOR: and he will reign on the earth for 1000years

Achorladey: Yes

CAPTIVATOR: from heaven,

Achorladey: Now look at your statement when you state ON THE EARTH did you see FROM HEAVEN in the scripture cited?

And when the scripture states on the EARTH, as it seems you don't want to accept it can be RIGHT here ON THE EARTH.

CAPTIVATOR: those reigning with him will be where he is.

Achorladey: And where will that be? Heaven?

CAPTIVATOR: Emphasis on " reign with him "

Achorladey: Indeed they are to REIGN with CHRIST.

CAPTIVATOR: 2Corinthians 5:8..
"But we are of good courage and would prefer to be absent from the body and to make our home with the Lord

Does this answer the meaning of the word TENT, TABERNACLE and EARTHLY HOUSE as it applies to 2 Corinthians 5:1 and 2 Peter 1: 13,14

CAPTIVATOR: Says Paul who looked forward to the early ressurection or first ressurection from the dead for King and Priest in the new covenant [Rev 20:6, Philippians 3:11]

Achorladey: Eh en,

Jozzy4: This Is why Jozzy said those on earth are " Subjects" reigned on by Jesus and other kings and priest from their heavenly dwelling.

Achorladey: I have repeatedly cited this scripture, will do so again

Revelation 5:10 You have appointed them as a kingdom and priests to serve our God, and they will REIGN ON THE EARTH."

You are the one introducing HEAVENLY DWELLING. Did Revelation 20:6 state HEAVENLY DWELLING? Did you see HEAVENLY DWELLING in Phillipians 3:11 after the word "resurrection" there?

" they will rule over the earth.” CJB

"they shall reign over the earth." Darby

Just some two of the many translation that rendered it properly .

This was why I asked the other time, If you have a contrary opinion, from where will Christ Reign On earth ?

U are easily forgetting Christ also reign on/over earth , and this ones reign with him . . " that where I am, you also may be " John 14:3

From where ?

If you have a contrary opinion, answer this:

Jesus 1000 year rule, Will he reign from heaven or in earth ?

Cc : Jozzy4 , achorladey

achorladey:
Jozzy4: They will be ressurected to where ? The expression " Reign with Him [Jesus ] "

Achorladey: You will decide that on your own soon.

Jozzy4: The bold reveals their territory.

Achorladey: Are THEY ON the TERRITORY or OUTSIDE the TERRITORY?

Jozzy4: The real rulers are the " THEY " . those who experience the first ressurection.

Achorladey: Eh en

Jozzy4: They will reign WITH Jesus in heaven.

Achorladey: Did I just see IN. Hahahahaha.

ON is DIFFERENT from IN indeed. Hahahahaha.

As it seems your ON will become synonyms for IN.

Revelation 5:10 You have appointed them as a kingdom and priests to serve our God, and they will REIGN ON the EARTH.”

The Revelation cited didn't state IN THE HEAVEN. Hahahahaha.

Jozzy4: Everlasting in the Heavens ... Wat does that reveal?

Achorladey: How will you know when you can't tell the meaning of the TENT, TABERNACLE or EARTHLY HOUSE as it APPLIES to the scripture you cited and the one are cited alongside yours.


Jozzy4: U are hanged already.

Achorladey: I be aeroplane wey enter HANGER abi I be singlet for your eye wey dem dey HANG. Usual distraction.

Jozzy4: Don't worry, am enjoying this

Achorladey: Now you are talking, on nairaland, the FUN never stops. Let's enjoy!


Jozzy4: Reign with him ... Where would Jesus reign from?

Achorladey: You will know soon ENOUGH.

Jozzy4: On is different from in.

Achorladey: It's simple English that we don't need GREEK interpretation.

Jozzy4: Jesus reign ON earth

Achorladey: You will decide that on your own

Jozzy4: ... Is Jesus on earth?

Achorladey: The last time I read ACTS 1......it state JESUS CHRIST returned back to HEAVEN.

Jozzy4: Likewise they will rule with him.

Achorladey: You mean those in the ONE and ONLY NEW COVENANT.

Jozzy4: Interesting that the same Greek word was rendered " OVER " by many versions at Matthew 18:13

Achorladey: Save yourself going to SOKOTO(state) when what is needed is in SOKOTO(trouser).

What does the following scriptures contained in REVELATION chapter 5 tells you about the USE of ON and IN?

Revelation 5: 3 But no one IN HEAVEN or ON EARTH or UNDER the EARTH was able to open the scroll or look into it

Revelation 5:7 Then he came and took the scroll from the right hand of the one who was seated ON THE THRONE,

So far you agree Jesus returned to heaven, and he will reign on the earth for 1000years from heaven, those reigning with him will be where he is. Emphasis on " reign with him "

2Corinthians 5:8..

" But we are of good courage and would prefer to be absent from the body and to make our home with the Lord "



Says Paul who looked forward to the early ressurection or first ressurection from the dead for King and Priest in the new covenant [Rev 20:6 , Philippians 3:11]


This Is why Jozzy said those on earth are " Subjects " reigned on by Jesus and other kings and priest from their heavenly dwelling

bjjose:
I don't think so

Then This is a point many of those supporting her didn't remember to think about .

The same money that married her can MARRY another fresh young lady when the man gets tired of her . just as he did with the first four or five wife's. Each previous wife also initially thought she would be the last