₦airaland Forum

Mike..ZA:
Your problem is you confuse battles with wars. You seem to think the operations(hooper,moduler and parker) are the only battles SADF fought and won. We heard accounts of how the enemy would leave their equipment and run,if they heard the 32 battalion was advancing on their position. What would be a "neutral source" to you that I can provide?.... Wikipedia?,Quotes from our Generals and colonels after the war?.............3000 warriors under the command of Colonel(died as a SANDF Lieutenant General) Deon Ferreira.

you've come again with your "i heard" stories. you must be ignorant to know that wars depending on their terrain are fought in segments (battles).

the more battles you win, the more grounds you gain till your enemy is made to surrender. if you had won all battles in that war, you would have won the war without negotiations.

Mike..ZA:
A militia armed with tanks and anti craft missiles?. On the chemical weapons issue it was proven that Savimbi's troops were gased too. Are gonna say the Battle of bridge 41 was not real battle too,the SADF didn't have the G5 and G6 systems then. And the objective was to push their advance and capture cuito.

are you kidding me with that question or what? do you want me to start lecturing you of militias currently fielding such weapons? especially the most obvious ones currently in syria. dude, you claimed to have military knowledge. it's time to start using it please.

bridge 14 not 41 is just one of those things in war. you win some grounds and lose some. the victory in that mission was that they were able to rebuild the bridge under cuban assault. but their advance on cuito still failed and they withdrew.

but in other to sell their propaganda (which is normal during any war), they quickly made a movie about it.

i won't lie to you. the book i read only showed me how SADF was very good at holding their lines of defense. but their ability to advance on an offensive was their weakness. before that war, Cuba had no conventional warfare record. so it's only right to be fair to acknowledge their bravery and victory in some of parts of the war as well. SADF didn't have all the victory records in that war.

iterator25: This is getting serious

it's old news. weeks before the SOE

notice the the director of army public relations had been changed long ago.

Fighter Pilot: Your information is very wrong. Russia deployed more than 10 000 soldiers to fight on along with Cuba
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Angolan_Civil_War

They secretly provided military weapons, soldiers and military pilots where even several of them were taken in as POW by South African special forces as a proof of their involvement. They suffered 54 casualties. I know you copied that nonsense from @Agaugust whose knowledge about war history is zero.

you know if you want to prove someone's information to be false, the best you can do is prove your james bond stories with facts not fictions.

russia did not engage you in that war, they only assisted the cubans. there's a difference. part of the 54 casualties they suffered was the downing of a russian cargo plane by SADF. they were supplying arms, not fighting on the front lines.

Mike..ZA:
How many Cuban troops were deployed? Around 30 000 against 300 SADF elite warriors. The SADF totally stopped their advance and smashed them while they were retreating. Capturing cuito would have caused many casualties unless South Africa reinforced with more troops,artillery and tanks. But as the objective of stopping the advance was achieved,it was unnecessary to capture that town.

you are a gadamn liar. more than 20000 south african troops fought that war. thousands of elite troops led the advance on cuito. stop lying abeg

SA stopped FAPLA's advance, not the cubans. it was SADF's advance that was halted by the cubans.

The SADF brought up reinforcements and then carried out, beginning 13 January until 23 March, the first of what would prove to be six major ground assaults on the entrenched FAPLA positions east of the river, none of which delivered tangible results

[quoe]After the failed assault on 23 March 1988 under orders from Pretoria the SADF withdrew the bulk of their forces, initially leaving a 1,500-man "holding force" behind (Combat Group 20) to continue deception operations and lay mines in order to prevent or slow any FAPLA offensive operations[/quote]file:///C:/Documents%20and%20Settings/Owner/Desktop/Battle_of_Cuito_Cuanavale.htm

so why did you lie that you had only 300 elite forces advancing on cuito? you are a bloody liar. you just killed your own argument.

until you start telling your stories with proof from neutral sources, you remain a rumor munger. o, i forgot, you are the unsure guy

Mike..ZA:
What destroyed the 60 out 70 tanks at the Lomba river? UNITA? NO,the SADF Ratels,G5 and G6 did. The Ratel ZT3 made its first kill during that battle. FAPLA was surprised,the element of surprise is widely used in any war. SADF's 32 battalion and 61 mechanised unit fought well in that battle. You should get Helmoed's books about accounts in the war. In some accounts today's deputy chief of the army was caught up in the fighting,while commanding his motorised infantry. Since you say Cuba was inexperience in conventional warfare,is Nigeria experienced in that? Have Nigeria ever fought against another country or enemy with paratroopers,motorised infantry,mechanised infantry,special forces,sappers(engineers) to equipment like Anti aircraft missiles,Artillery,main battle tanks,MRAPS,rocket launchers,armoured fighting vehicles,IFVs,fighter jets,supply trucks and recovery vehicles? To me the answer is NO,this proves your lack of experience.

Lomba river. a battle fought against a weak militia. that's the only thing you can brag about the bush war. it wasn't an element of surprise, it was a a battle of superior fire power (chemical weapons) against an ill equipped and ill trained militia.

but what happened when SADF decided to advance to cuito? they were bushed back to retreat to the namibian border. to me that was the real battle and you lost.

Mike..ZA:
You've only read about 1987-1988 battles(operation hooper and parker). But you should read about the battle of bridge 41. Regarding experience I can say Nigeria is not experience. If you're going to say the USSR and Cuba were inexperienced. With Cuito we all know what happened: The enemy rushed south with tanks,vehicles and artillery. Nigerian army has never destroyed more 60 tanks,which the SADF did in the Lomba river. Nigerian artillery men have destroyed air fields,tanks,fighter jets,air defence systems,APCs and large numbers of infantry. Remember 3000 elite SADF warriors faced more than 2 brigades,but pushed them back to cuito. Besides we all know SADF trained 11 000 infantry for a blitzkrieg offensive. What I'm saying is just because Nigeria fought rebels and won,doesn't mean they can fight. They've never faced a well equipped army like Cuba. They've never been to what I call FULL BLOWN(tanks,artillery,infantry from paratroops,motorised,sappers"engineers" special forces and mechanised units,fighter jets,rocket launchers and supply trucksy. Winning against rebels doesn't count.

look at this mr copy and paste. so you don't know the battle of cuito was after the lomba river? the battle at lomba river was squarely between FAPLA and UNITA. the Cubans were not involved. SADF showed up to support UNITA with the G6 artillery when they saw that they were almost defeated. guy, FAPLA retreated cos SADF bombed them with chemical weapons (please do your research). it was a battle FAPLA never prepared for.

bragging that you defeated FAPLA is like Nigeria bragging to have defeated Liberian and sierra Leonanie rebels. there's no difference.

here's are some quotes from a book i read about SADF advancement on cuito which was your real test.

"None of these decisive battles, which are recorded in great detail in the South African accounts of the war (irrespective of their triumphant distortions), are mentioned by Zhdarkin".

"At one stage of the retreat (according to Zhdarkin), they were even bombed with “chemical weapons containing poisonous gas,” against which they had no gas masks for protection"

"The most effusive praise was rightly reserved for the Cubans, without whom the author would not have survived to record these memoirs. It was the Cubans who had supplied them, fought and died for Angola, and forced South Africa to sue for peace after having allegedly destroyed most of their tanks and driven the SADF out of Angolan and back over the Namibian border."

the book is titled "Memoirs of a Participant of the Angolan War (1986-1988)" by Igor Zhdarkin

SADF had low casualties cos they used UNITA as cover while they shelled cuito from behind with the G6. guy, russia only sent advisers, not troops. if they had joined the cubans, SA would have been a wasteland by now.

cuba was inexperienced in conventional war (refute it if you have proof).

it was a war you "fought" not "won". so you should not brag cos i have many accounts of how cuba brushed SADF to retreat.

andrewza: That your own list or is it from some actual source. Considring you never had milltary training I wonder how you got to your conclusion.

Would artic and dessert not be the same. Actualy dessert is worse since dehydrastion is a threat a long whith heat stroke.

arctic is worse than desert boss. During world war 2, hitler's army suffered so many losses due to extreme cold. You can easily adapt to a desert terrain than a cold one.

Henry120: I'm a nigerian. We are a very hospitable people. Forget about all the bad press, and the 1% of the population who have decided to soil or name.

If and when you visit nigeria, forget about lagos, abuja or port-harcourt. Make sure you Visit CALABAR instead. It is nigeria's number 1 holiday city. Very beautiful, green and peaceful with lots of historical and tourist attractions to see.

that's where i spend my holiday too. very nice city but not given enough media attention. but oga henry i love that your other thread. try to keep it alive abeg.... this one wey beeg don go AWOL

MiguelMi6: are you a comedian or what.I don't seem to understand your statement.

you just encountered the clown of this thread. my advise is don't give him the attention.

Mike..ZA:
I once said this before that a mine fields can stop the 150 000 strong Nigerian forces. Giving time for another country to call up reserves,armed them and head straight to the front lines to meet the enemy. Or bring up to operational standards some non-operational systems like tanks and armoured fighting vehicle.

a typical war tactic for SADF that was used during the bush war. while they retreated from the cubans, they laid mines to slow down the cubans from catching up fast. thereby giving the SADF more time to safely retreat. but what hapens when you push for an offensive? that's where the real battle lies. the battle of cuito exposed your weakness. after several attempts, you had to retreat and continue shelling from 40km (which is what you do best)... fight from a distance.

you can only fool a novice with the bush war nonsense. i studied it, so there's nothing you can tell me about it that i don't know

Mike..ZA:
The bush war was never easy. Nigeria has never fought a war like the bush war. A war of tanks to artillery. The Bush war allowed South Africa to develop systems fitted for the African battle space. This is the reason why SAAF asked SAAB to "South Africanise" the Gripen a bit. It is the same reason why the Badger Vehicle will be built in SA with Denel weapons and LMT armour. Nigeria buys any systems it thinks will operate well in Africa. I once said this before that a mine fields can stop the 150 000 strong Nigerian forces. Giving time for another country to call up reserves,armed them and head straight to the front lines to meet the enemy. Or bring up to operational standards some non-operational systems like tanks and armoured fighting vehicle.

please stop using the bush war to justify your military ranking cos it was a war you fought for too long against an inexperienced military and didn't win.

i posted proof of how SADF was pushed back from their offensive on cuito (the only offensive they ever made) and were further pushed back to retreat. how is that something to brag about? no one doubts your capabilities to build weapons, but we are saying that your military is not up to it.

countries like Ethiopia have fought wars and won against colonial invaders, against powerful eritrea etc but we still underrate them. Uganda fought a full scale war against many nations who backed Tanzania(would have won tanzania alone) so why should you be bragging about a bush war you didn't win?

Nigeria only came close to a full scale war with cameroon of which they chickened out. aside from that, we have had small skirmishes with our neighbors and occupied small portion of chad before we were asked to withdraw. (i remember buhari commanded the artillery unit).

but we showed our might in major peace enforcements that the west were afraid to intervene in, fought the bloodiest civil war against an army that was backed by france and other african countries including SA and won. that's enough to make you sh*t your pants.

you can't claim to have military knowledge and not know that any country under sanction if not being blockaded, can still get arms secretly from any country willing to sell especially if there's a pact with such country cos war is good business for arms dealers. e.g russia continues to supply arms to syria after being sanctioned

point is... yeah you fought the bush war..."fought" not "won".... so until you are able to win any conflict, you don't have permission to use the bush war to justify your military ranking.

even egypt has a better war record than SA (at least they defeated libya).

Mike..ZA:
He just told you Hinds were used. Why don't you ask him for proof?. And I only spit "venom" in return never on the offensive.

sorry we are totally different. i don't say what i'm not sure of unless it's to ask a question.

The Algerian army had two missile-carrying Mi24 Super-Hind helicopters, armoured cars, and Russian-made T90 tanks.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/africaandindianocean/algeria/9814510/Algeria-hostage-crisis-Most-weapons-used-in-attack-came-from-Libya.html

@andrewza, i read you post on @henry120's thread that the FN-SCAR has it's problems. am not familiar with weapons spec so can you expantiate a little. cos i've heard several time that the weapon is the most accurate in the world.

Mike..ZA:
Unlike your brothers,you're asking nicely. Here then: The South African company(ATE) upgraded Algerian Hinds to super hinds. During the hostage drama in that Algerian oil complex. Attack helicopters were rumoured to have been used to destroy "technicals" with hostages. Though some people say it was tanks not helos. But hinds were flying above that complex,that's a fact.

your consistent use of the word "rumor" makes you sound unsure. BBC did a small documentary on the operation and it was Hinds helos that were used. those guys didn't care about the hostages, all they wanted to do was kill all the insurgents so they fired rockets from the helos at the vehicles used as decoys with hostages in it for escape.

Uyi Iredia: Okay thanks for the info. Now I came accross a criticism that the Kenyan soldiers had guns down and they should have pointed guns up so as to be able to respond quicker on seeing the enemy. Is this justified ?

i don't think it would have been right for them to have their guns pointed forward since there were too many innocent people moving around, but their fingers were on the trigger for any eventuality. what got me frustrated though is how scared they were at the sound of any gunshot.

watch this video and see how they panicked like civilians as guns were blazing

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xGSnIi2lzfE

Mike..ZA:
First 1. Egypt will always be ranked below South Africa,Ethiopia and Nigeria. Because they have never proved them selves in the battlefield. Equipment won't raise their rank,because they had superior equipment during the Yim Koppur war like the T-62(with night vision capabilities,Israel centurion tank crews had to use NVG to find targets during the night),portable anti aircraft missiles and anti tank missiles(like the deadly wire guided Sagger missile). But Egypt was badly beaten,Israel cut through their flanks to capture or threatened Cairo. Second. 2 Their soldiers can't fight all over Africa(sub-saharan africa to be specific),they're trained for desert warfare. We all know what happens when desert commandos try to fight in the sub-saharan. We saw it in Uganda when Libyan commandos were easily defeated. Third 3. Like Israelis would say "Arabs can't fight".

this reminds me of how a whole arab league (with qatar, saudi, UAE and egypt that have better weapons and airforce) had to beg the west to send their own soldiers to fight in their back yard. something that a lesser equipped and ill funded African Union will never try.

i'll have to agree with you on this one.

so the legit list should be Nigeria,.....everyone else

agaugust: the hostage thing is just crap and excuses. the kenyan army has not saved most of the civilians, i have watched over 20 videos of the situation, 90% of the people in the mall ran away and escaped before the army came.

the hostages are getting killed....about 70 civilians dead, the kenyan army is NOT saving them.

the terrorists are NOT negotiating with the government. so its every man for himself.

i saw videos of 20 kenyan soldiers who heard gunshots and ran for cover, i guess they should have stormed the place like the Israelis do.

no wonder no single kenyan soldier has died...but 70 civilians are dead, so who is the army saving ? only itself ?

only 2 terrorists have been killed in 3 days inside nairobi city, in one single building 100% surrounded by kenyan army, police, secret service, and air force helicopters.

with 70 people killed by the terrorists, as an army General, i will storm that shopping mall with 100 commandoes to kill and get killed...war is war...Israeli style !

.

the algerian gas plant siege on my mind

Fighter Pilot: In relation to terrorism, let us stop beating about the bush and face the facts. Nigeria should have pushed the BH out of their borders long ago if they were said to be all powerful like they were professed to be on this very page some while ago before the state of emergency was declared. In terms of what was written here we should have experienced a completely different game and instead we saw the contrary to what was originally said. SA was criticised badly for losing 13 of their men against the seleka rebels and little did we know that Nigeria is even in the worst position than the former. Nigeria had never been on an encounter with the enermy in a one on one situation ever since the heydays of Biafra and judging them on the records of peace keeping missions was very untenable. It had really indeed left a lot to be desired for.

rubbish talk from a self acclaimed guard soldier

SA wasn't criticized for losing 13 men cos there must be casualties in war, but for aborting a retaliation for the death of your soldiers. there's a difference.

Fighter Pilot: There is no an ongoing insurgency in Kenya and with just a single episode of attack, it will be premature to start to judge. Unlike in Nigeria were attacks on civilians are just the order of the day and security forces can't seem to do anything about it; insugents are sharing the same country with security forces with their camps situated right in the jurisdiction of Nigeria; some are even boldly driving about on military amoured vehicle and wearing the same military uniform as that of security forces; and currently, nothing seems to have been done to drive them out of the borders of Nigeria.

Nigeria should stop comparing themselves to the US and the UK in dealing with terrorism because the former had a completely different situation to that of Nigeria. The enemy was not within the boundaries but operating from outside with casual attacks carried out on civilians. Ofcourse, the enemy wouldn't dare to set up operational camps in the same territory as that of such superpowers unless they run the risk of being extinct earlier than they should. In the mighty Naija is a completely different senario where the enemy challenges the owner in a fight in his own compound. What aches my heart the most is that the enemy is even wandering about, roaming free and harrassing the villagers anyhow they please by staging consistent attacks as if they are just walking on the park. At some stages military was reported to have ran out of ammunition and instead alerted the community to run for their dear life out of the enemy's reach.

i must say sir that this your post is filled with ignorant and immature statements.

Why shouldn't Nigeria compare itself to other countries? Were the IRA operating from SA? Are the indian MAOIST and other rebels operating from SA? Even Turkey had to beg the PKK to vacate turkish territory after decades of fighting them with superior fire power ten times more than Nigeria. What of MNLF of philipines? Are they operating from SA? Or indonesian terror groups? What of the all powerful AQIM? Are they operating from SA?

I can go on but you need to realize that all these countries i've mentioned are still struggling to defeat their insurgents. That should tell you that it's never easy to defeat terrorism internally or externally (US will give you a proper lecture on that).

You claim to be a soldier but too ignorant to know that insurgents also have their own kind of military fatigue. Boko haram is still confined to border communities. If not, you would have heard of attacks in commercial commercial cities like kenya and Uganda. That should tell you how good our intelligence system and security forces are.

Even SA couldn't defeat ANC (a less deadly group) for decades. So WTH are you talking about Nigeria not to compare it's situation with other countries.

Mike..ZA:
The thought that is killing me is: Nigeria is still twenty years behind South Africa in military technology. South Africa defence companies can develop systems to deal with any obstacle in Sub-saharan Africa. While Nigeria will have to take a lengthy process to procure new systems. And oh your brother was telling us,how Nigeria has possess missile technology better than that of our country(South Africa).

i think you would rather prefer Nigeria remains in the dark. So what's killing you now is that we are stepping into the light after decades of military rule.

Why don't you wait till the missile program is finished. Cos last time i checked, SA didn't build umkonto or whatever in 1 or 2 years.

Mike..ZA:
Denel is now putting missiles on our Drones,while you're still test flying yours.

and did we ever tell you our defense industry is bigger than yours.

Even your common sense can't deny
hat for a young and new defense industry, Nigeria is coming of age.

Or is it the thought that's killing you?

Fighter Pilot: There is also one thing you should look at, SA Muslim community are very articulate, educated and sophisticated. Majority have adopted western education and are not against it either. The problem comes to this ones who have never been to school only because they were told that western education is a sin. Education is the only weapon that can be used to change the world and those who never received it run the risk of being recruited to those terrorist groups because they will be taught that wrong is right. They will be told that the enermy are those who have attended western education which is viewed as satanic to them.

and who told you all terrorists are illiterates? It has to do with the religious ideology and the ability to influence the islamic novices to join a cause they don't understand.

You should know that educated british and american citizens left their comfort to join islamic jihad in worst situations. What does that tell you.

saengine: Only post this rubbish when people are killed like this every few days like they are in Nigeria. By the end of next week another attack will wipe out a village in Nigeria.

my friend talk like a reasonable person please. Alshabaab is thousands of miles away from Nairobi and kenya, but they still carry out attacks whenever they want to.

Boko haram lives in Northern Nigeria and their attacks are still controlled to boarder areas. Do the maths

andrewza: The shoping mall?

It not looking good, extrimist like al-shabab don't do negoastion. It like the indian mumba attack.

they already said they don't intend to negotiate with anyone.

That's the problem with all these islamic estremist. If they decide to die, you'll definitely be the loser.

Henry120: Are you guys seeing the hostage situation in kenya? Al-shabab has just claimed responsibility for the attacks.

hmm. guy, my eyes have been glued to aljazeera since and it keeps getting worse. Nigerian government really needs to learn from this o.

This clearly shows that terrorism has no boundaries.

andrewza: FBI budget is 8.1billion USD

hahahahahaha... That's the budget of 3 top african military combined.

CraigB: I own you. Three hours. 100% of your comments, but 2% - CraigB.

Now that's intellectual ownership. I'm not the one in a post-midnight timezone. You are. Now if that isn't just sad, I don't know what is.

Even sadder than the fact that there's absolutely nothing you can say or have said to show yourself to be as smart as you wish to be. My posts stay. They are your mirror from which to recognise your monkey ways.

No amount of feigning laughter will save you. You were angry for three hours. Now you're vexed. You aren't laughing. You're suffering.

You've tried everything. Pink cards. Anger and now, long paragraphs. Still - no substance.

Sucks being you. You will die trying. But you'll fail, as you always have.

We both know how this always ends. You go to bed with a broken heart and I come back the next day with more facts.

You're a monkey.

wow, from pressing the ignore button to seven paragraph emty response.

You sound hurt. Was it some things i said? Perhaps they are true. Cos if they aren't, you wouldn't have bothered to type so much empty blabbing just to save yourself.

My work here is done. I proved you to be styp1d (with your help of course), and also proved you are not capable of a complex conversation (too dull to crack your brain for sensibility)

now let me teach you what it means to really ignore an irrelevant white pig. *mutes*

Fighter Pilot: You are crazy, I told you that Umkhonto marry the target by locking into it like a magnet. It is fully capable of stopping any kind of missile, sea skemming or not, umkhonto is designed to follow the target at any direction. Denel does not claim, they test their weapon. Did you think that Denel engineers never had the so called sea skemming type of anti-ship missiles on their minds when they designed the defence system of their valour-class? The Umkhonto missiles were not designed to attack but to provide an all round defence against any type of missile.

Professor @Agaugust your claims are outdated and Denel's engineers are more clever than you are, they have already thought about that long time and wouldn't dare to provide SANDF with an obsolete defence system. I know that you find it hard to believe, but Umkhonto is designed as everything in one. Have you ever heard of all in one before? Example of that would be your i-phone which is a combination of computer, calculator, GPS, phone, MP3 player, etc. You can buy all that separately isn't ?

Umkhonto missile is one of its kind and there are only few of that type in the whole world. It has characteristics of combination of defence missiles in one and so there is no need for a separate defence missile which does a specific assignment like anti ship missile-missile as you preferred it to be. Give yourself time and research about Umkhonto than making unfounded statements as if you were the one who invented it.

just one honest question.

How many countries have they managed to sell it to since the marketing announcement?

I mean your description of the missile's capabilities is enough to have world militaries line up for it. And so far, there's no queue.

CraigB: I own you intellectually. You aren't even asleep, thanks to my posts.

Sleepless nights, thanks to CraigB.

I'm sure I own all your posts for the last three hours too.

Yup! Hurt soul is you.

No substance in anything you've said. Just reactionary defensiveness.

You can foam in the mouth until you knock yourself out. My posts stay.

hahahahahahahahahaha. If you can just quote one of your comments that's intellectual, i would gladly smash my laptop to the ground.

Call it whatever you like, i just love the fact that every post keeps hurting you deeper that the lenght of your response keep increasing. Truth does that

Now you want to force me to bed? Why? Getting frustrated? You should have known by now that you're my comedy for tonight's entertainment. Me going to sleep shouldn't be your problem unless i'm frustrating your weak head. I sleep when i wanna

By the way, your continuous response to me is a clear indication that there was nothing to ignore. Just something too complex for you to respond to.

i think we both know who handles his ignore buttons very well. So when i'm done playing with your stup1d head, i'll gladly resume.

CraigB: Your understanding that the button is mine is a start.

Your acceptance that you've been hurt enough to dedicate your entire existence to me is progress.

Truth does that.

and your acceptance that you don't know what it means to ignore a post is progress

my existence to you? Quite hilarious. Well, it's expected of a clown.

We both know the person hit by truth here is you. To the extent that it ruined your ignore button you were yapping about but don't know how to operate.

You're a confirm loser

Damlesky: 780 pages where i go start reading from

it's fun though.... Helps keep you busy when you're idle.

You can start from page 1 to fully understand what is being debated.