₦airaland Forum

well..

step by step... we'll get there.. hopefully... some day..

I believe u are correct... though I'll guess you'll get my meaning when I refered to "Professional courses"... Any Engineer can function effectively as a manager, I don't think any manager can function effectively as an engineer..

the nigerian observer..

not good at all...

If I may venture my opinion..

Universities all over the world are learning grounds, where they impart certain skills... Hardly do they ever bring out the finished product..

The unfortunate truth about Nigerian Universities in particular is that with all the bruhaha running concurrently [academic strife, victimisation from lecturers, politics, groove, etc etc] the typical Nigerian student really doesn't have time to apply him/herself to the main goals of being in the university.. study and self-development.. many nigerian students, if quizzed, would hardly admit to taking time on their own to self-develop (read outside the scope).. they would rather be spoon-fed via lectures and assignments.. the coursework self (where it exists..), is often submitted according to last minute deadlines, which are often not met..
Also, opportunities for interaction with other academic spheres are often limited.. No viable exchange programs with schools of other countries, even the various industrial/training attachments and placements are hardly done according to the way they are supposed to be..

This having been said, despite all this, Nigerian graduates are still able to perform, and given adequate time, excel in their chosen fields, despite the poor preparation.. So, in effect, they have acquired some skills during the completion of their academic programs..

I do believe Nigerian graduates are worth their salt, and can hold sway with the international academic community.. they just need time to mature..

@ De-King..

Actually, it is implemented in a lot of "professional" courses..

Medicine, Dentistry, Pharmacy, Nursing, Law, etc etc.. all have this implemented in one form or the other.. It all goes to making a better professional, in addition to creating some sort of standard [or minimum level of competence] within the profession..

As regards how it affects the ammount of time spent in schools, well... I'm sorry to say this, but "Nothing shake stone at S.T.P"..

ie.. Deal with it.. In my days, I spent 7 years pursuing a 5 academic session course..

Sorry oh.. I didn't go to church today... Just waking up..

tpbm loves to be loved..

I disagree with Obong on this one..

The actual idea/concept is not stupid.. The execution of this may eventually be faulty, but the ideas/concepts involved aren't.. this scheme has actually been in existence long before now.. it's just recently that there's been a push in trying to make it universally acceptable or compulsory for engineering graduates.. In addition, similar schemes exist in different parts of the world.. what would be nice is if this could be incorporated into the National Youth Service for the two to run concurrently..

About expatriate engineers being registered.. this also obtains in all parts fo the world.. Why should Nigeria be an exception

@ gina34...

Nothing is hidden under the sun.. if u had read my posts.. [well, a couple of them] you'd have realised my tribe by now.. I'm simply trying to avoid the stereotyping typical with knowing where a person is from...

I'd like to be judged and assesed on my own merit, rather than where I'm from..

ps.. you can check a post by Kenya on information about my tribe.. I more or less stated it there for all to see.. Brings me back to my original request that you read my posts and tell me what u think about me.. you'd definitely get to know me better or know more about me rather than me just espousing a lengthy essay about myself..

Let's await the result of the trial...

@ EzehM..

Didnt get ur quote... " 'His people'? "

In addition to this...

We are all alive to bear witness to the result of what happened when a person no less than a Minister of the Federal Republic came out to lay accusations against some Senators.. They all crucified him... [the erstwhile Minister for Education..]..

We don't even have to shed light on the then travails of the erstwhile Minister for FCT, who had to appear before the Senate with his entire family to beg for forgiveness for making an intemperate statement.. [since when did it now resort to becoming a family affair?? ]...

Nigeria has now become a country where the rich and powerful look after themselves... Need we remind ourselves what happened when the last batch of Senators ended their last tenure.. the Government quarters where they were resided were sold to themselves.. only God knows why??..  or on what basis...

Even if the so-called proponents for the "postponement of investigation, arraingment and possible trial" of such persons as a state Governor, in the hope of preserving Nigeria's good international image and reputation; were to have their wishes granted, what is the guarantee that such a trial would come to pass, or that they would even be around to be tried in the first instance..

Bibi:
@Whiteshark,

thanks O jare. I don't understand this hypocrisy of bringing the guy home to face "proper" justice when we all know that the political immunity within Nigeria will not allow "proper" justice, at least we are all living witnesses to how Dariye ran away on bail under similar circumstance. It was the same cry of Let him come home to face proper justice and what has happened? He came back to his governorship position and his political immunity cannot allow his prosecution. Even the goons in the state house of assembly refuse to investigate such impeachable offence. Hence the thieves are propering and protected.

If Nigeria has to suffer humiliation so that certain vices be corrected or at least minimized in our political class, then so be it. At least, we all know now that all these briefcase leaders will think twice before carrying their loaded briefcases across bothers again.

Another view point....

Which do you think the international community would take more seriously.. or give more credence..

- A situation where a government in power visibly and transparently tries to do all in it's power to prosecute/all for prosecution people who are suspected of wrong-doing??

or

- A situation where a government, under the umbrella of "soverignty and immunity" insist on such people being sent home for a trial which, from past trends, will never come to pass..

Would the international community praise our efforts at making attempts to bring corrupt public officials to book?? [no matter the means involved??]..

Or would they scratch their heads in abandonment at our two-faced'ness.. where on the one hand we are crying for reparation of all our stolen resources and claiming that they facilited the original plundering, and yet on the other we are facilitating the non-procecution of people who should currently be investigated for these same crimes against the nation??

postscript...
What guarantee do we have that by waiting 2-3 years for these public officials to vacate office prior to commencing investigation, and arraingment for these crimes... that it would still be possible for these people to be prosecuted??.. Would the scent of these crimes still be there to be followed for proper investigation??.. would these people still be available in the country for prosecution??.. Would the powers that be not have encacted laws to prevent such prosecution??.. what of if the people themselves pass on [die] and leave this ill-gotten wealth to their heirs.. would we be in a position to prosecute them??..

Let's keep things simple please..

The guy is "innocent till proven guilty".. if he's truly as innocent as he alleges to be, he should have nothing to fear from the investigation, prosecution and accompanying trial...

drbigdaddyg:
@ texazzpete
We are not saying the man isn't rogue or thief, we are rather concerned by the effect it will have on our country's reputation. In this case, though we know we possess all these evil attributes, we pretend to be free from them atleast to clear our tracks from the international community. I believe with the EFCC here, we can resolve the issue internally, bringing him to proper justice.   
Like what Klex said:    You see they (US) will exhibit some level of maturity unlike Obasanjo playing sycophancy maybe to gain his selfish interest why his home (country) suffers in moral insolence, world-wide. This will be the highest level of humiliation to Nigeria.
Inorder to reduce the dent this has subjected to Nigeria, I advice we exercise the law (diplomatic immunity) unless we feel  our law is too inferior to be applied in country like England (shame!!!), then we go ahead sheepishly, loosing our pride before the world.
Nawa oooooooo, one man's crime will bring bad name to my treasured country

I've downloaded the report onto my system, but it's rather a lengthy one [54 pages.. ]..

could you direct me to the specific section you want to refer me to.. So I can see where u're directing me..

Thanks....

pintos:
Please read this report :

http://www.fidh.org/IMG/pdf/ng092005a.pdf

Any time buddy...

Is the sharia law being imposed on the non-moslem populace?.. [because to the best part of my knowledge, it isn't]..

Or is it because their customs are more conservative than what obtains in other parts of the country...

So, my question still stands.. In what way does a people who wish to observe their local and religous customs tend to seccession..

@ Vexxy...

God Bless You...

In what way is the sharia issue akin to secceeding

obong:
why does it seem nigeria is so swift to handle conflict in the Nigeri delta, with arrests and charges of kingpins, but so incapable of doing the same when the North rages over sharia. The sharia business is askin to seceeding

Nice... although I must say that that isnt a strong enough reason to reveal my tribe..

Next....

ok.. maybe I should have said 'a' jersey instead of 'his' jersey..

Do we really need anyone to "play like Okocha".. we have talented and skillful players in their own right... we don't really need any player to play like Okocha.. we need players who are willing to do what is required to win the match.. when called upon by their country..

We have been winning matches long before Okocha came onto the scene, and we will continue to do so after he retires...

@ Klex...

Let me exercise your grey matter...

I will presume that you've been following all the posts made so far on this issue...  I will also presume that you are old enough to have been aware of the issues and circumstances which lead to Milirary intervention [Coup d'etat] back in 1983 during the last civilian era..

There are a few things which I would want to be made clear..

1. When any incident occurs and reference is made to the Presidency, everyone immediately assumes it comes directly from the President...

Now while this is often the case, I'm sure that there are a lot of times when Mr. President delegates responsibility to carefully chosen assistants [whether in the form of Ministers, or Special Advisers, or whatever] in whom he has implicit trust to carry out the assigned tasks to the best of their abilities, without trying to micro-manage them..
Now, while this does not abdicate responsibility from the President for all statements and policies coming out Aso rock, I'm sure it will go a long way to explaining some apparent discrepancies which do appear to occur from time to time...

2. In the case of the Bayelsa state governor, we have discussed the issues of Immunity from all perspectives.. we have also thrown in some views from legal personalities into the mix, with one even going as far as trying to constitutionally explain the difference between Constitutional Immunity and Diplomatic Immunity.. The Nigerian Consitution guarantees serving officers [State Governors inclusive] Consitutional Immunity, however it is a right of the Federal Republic to grant or deny Diplomatic Immunity on any of it's citizens.. Diplomatic Immunity is not an automatic right, as most people believe but a privlidge granted by a soverign nation.. I am still of the belief that this privlidge can be withdrawn at any time.. depending on the bestower of this privlidge.. [I am yet to be corrected on this point, even though we have had many a post on this matter.. could any legal/learned fellow please shed more light... ]

Due to this guarantee of Constitutional Immunity, many a personality have been abusing this wantonly... We can all attest to the fact that Nigerian is currently regarded as a very corrupt nation.. who do you think is responsible for this image.. Funnily enough, it is not the average 'lagbaja' on the street, or the hard-working national who lives overseas.. it is the corrupt leaders who go to these nations to buy houses that are many times worth what they appear to earn on paper, and these are properties which have not been declared prior to assumption of office to the CCB, so where did they come from?? ...

We have had many a call for patience and perseverance from many a Nairalander, and in fact from many Nigerians, all clamouring against the purported abuse of the Immunity status of a Governor who still hasn't come out to publicly explain the source of the funds found on his person/premises... What it appears that they have forgotten is that there is nothing new under the sun.. All this has happened before.. though most likely not with this level of finesse.. If we look back to the pre-1983 era,  how many of the corrupt public officers were held accountable for the frauds/thefts which occurred in that era.. In fact most of them ran overseas the second that the military came into power.. running for their dear lives.. How many of them did the then power in govt try to prosecute successfully??..(most of them had hidden their tracks by the time the then govt got around to attempting some semblance of an investigation.. ) Some may say that the military were not welcome at that time, but trust me, who were the ones not welcoming them??.. It was only when they acquired the same tendencies as the people they tried to flush out, did Nigerians become aware and fed-up with the scene of the times, but many a Nigerian did welcome the discipline which they attempted to enforce on the public..

I can assure you that if these crimes are not investigated immediately, the guilty will go about covering their tracks with an even higher level of finesse, and what we observed in the pre-1983 era will look like childs-play compared to what they would do in this case..

The thing you have to understand is this.. Once a crime is not investigated immediately, the scent goes cold, and it becomes impossible to investigate the crime thoroughly.. That's why law enforcement agencies all over the world investigate crimes immediately.. so as to get a full and thorough investigation report and account of the commision of the crime.. it's not when in 2007 that they would then be able to proceed to do this, after a lot of water has gone under the bridge.. who is to say that at that point in time, these people would not have created newer laws to guarantee their "immunity" from procesution after leaving office..

Your question was:  "why is our president further helping to dent our countries image by abdicating Nigeria's sovereignty?"

I guess the answer is there infront of our noses... It is a case of precedent.. When the Plateau state governor was caught with the same offense some months back, and was even arraigned before the UK courts and granted bail based on his "Personality" what did he immediately do then.. He ran away.. Back to Nigeria.. wherer his constitutionally guaranteed immunity came into immediate effect. I have not heard of any complaints of this individual "denting" the image of Nigeria...

The President knows that Nigeria is percieved as a corrupt nation... and is doing everything in his power to reverse this trend.. We all can bear witness to the effort he has made in going all over the world to plead our case.. And we can all bear witness to the results.. the mere fact that we are no longer ex-communicated from the international society is a clear testament to the work he has done.. Part of the outcome of this I expect is a pact of mutual co-operation into the investigation of crimes within Nigeria.. If this involves waiving or totally withdrawing the Diplomatic immunity of some elected officers in fulfillment of Nigeria's own side of the bargain, what is the problem there.. these are individuals which have been found in travention of not only local laws but international laws.. The laws which are alleged to have been broken in this case are British Laws, not Nigerian..  I'm very sure if it was to be a case of any Nigerian commiting a crime overseas, there wouldnt be this clamour for the nigerian to be brought home before he is tried.. Nor would there be a clamour for him not to be tried using the local laws of the place in question.. the only legal stance I'm aware of is that after any conviction, there are usually moves made for the offender to be sent back to Nigeria to serve his time over here, instead of at the expense of the govt. the person is found to contravened [deportation]..

Please, if anyone knows or feels differently, he should make his views known on this subject as I am no expert..

3. You raised the issue of contingency funds..

Now this is a concept which boggles my mind... That you are aware of the existence of such funds simply shows your level of awareness of the inner-workings of the government..

So, let me take this one step at a time..

A Governor makes a budget to the Federal government for some capital projects his state is expected to execute during a fiscal year..
During this same fiscal year, this same individual then goes about 'transporting' these funds [I believe this was the term a learned gentleman said that the British laws do not hold the Governor guilty of (I appologise, I can't recall the exact term used...)] from Nigeria to another country.. Despite the fact that these projects are yet to be executed.. Not withstanding the fact that Nigerians are presently suffering as a result of the non-execution of these projects.. All in the name of creating "Contingency" funds??..

Funds for which 'contingency' ??    In whose account is the funds stored overseas??   Why not budget these so-called funds distinct from/ or as a part of the main budget?? Why deprive others and but a lot of people into suffering in the quest of trying to create a pool of funds for a 'contingency' that doesn't exist.. I guess we can imagine where all these monies which appear to come from no-where arise from during election times.. I can also let others speculate as to the timing of this movement of funds movement by the Governor, coming at a time just before the PDP party card registration exercise.. these questions I'll leave our fellow Nairalanders to answer at their convenience..

We have very clearly defined processes and procedures for the movement of funds within and outside the country... We have banking institutions for goodness sake [and if I must say so, Nigeria has some of the best banks in the world..].. You can't convince me that a person as knowledgeable as a State Governor doesnt know enough about international banking to know that there are facilities which he could have availed himself of.. unless he had something to hide..

4.You also mentioned the issue of local terrorism.. [via some utterances and actions by some groups in the nation]..
That we should not blame them.. that we should not abuse them.. that we should not hold them accountable for their actions.. because they are avowed anarchists.. and we would not want to feel the brunt of their anger.. [I hope I'm not taking your words out of context..]..

Please tell me.. Since when has anarchy become a thing to be condoned Since when has the right to protect one's own person now become the right to wreck havock and distruction on the lives and property of others??

In the US [Sept 11.], in Spain, and in the UK [July 7], we can all bear witness to the acts that terrorism carried out on those respective days, against those respective governments.. And we can all bear witness to the collateral damage and attendant loss of live that happened then.. Many Nigerians lost their lives on those occasions..

Does the fact that we fear reprisals from certain groups of people now mean that we should condone their actions and activities??..

I would like to state clearly, for the record, that any attempt to support terrorism, whether or not it is from within the nation (or external), whether directly or implicitly, is something I personally abhor.. I do not see the logic in bringing misery to the lives of many because of the need to express one's disatisfaction with some people.. And I do not believe adopting a siddon look approach to their activities is required.. if armed robbers were laying siege to a community, would you say "let them be, after all if the police were to go after them, they might end up coming back in full force??"

We can not as a people allow ourselves to be held to ransom by a certain group of individuals, not when there are clear and established means of resolving these conflicts.. And in this particular instance, which issue are they really fighting over?.. After all, if the truth be said, the person they are allegedly fighting on behalf of may have actually stolen wealth meant for their own people..

The Collective is more important than the Individual...

My two kobo..

ps.. this is not targeted at any person.. just me expressing my opinions..

Tribe is merely an incidence of birth, which eventually influences one's upbringing according to local customs and values.. it doesn't affect the person within, and doesn't make me a better or worse individual.. My DNA would still have the same make-up as yours... I am not an alien from outer space..

ok.. Humor me..

Why would where I am from make such a difference..

If you could give me a very good.. or say just a plausible reason, then I'll oblige...

And I guess that kinda makes me a Grandfather...

don't cry...

In life, there's nothing like clarity...

There's a clear difference between best-friends and people who are dating [boyfriend/girlfriend]

From what you've described, I can infer that although you may have not come out and stated/accepted/or faced reality that you and this your best-friend were dating, that was apparently the case, because all the activities you've described are what people who are dating do..

Now the guy has gone and found someone who he wants to date.. who he can come out and claim publicly that:

"yes, this is my girlfriend, and not just a "friend"...



You shouldn't.. you can't expect things to remain the same.. that would be cruel of you..



My advice to you..

GET A LIFE.. 

He's obviously gone and gotten one..

ps.. It  would be curious to know how long you and this your erst-while paddy [let me not use best-friend here] had known yourselves, and why you guys never considered dating formally, since it appears that you were doing 'almost' everything else..  [Cosmo]

For those following the story, here's a new spin on things:

Culled from The Guardian newspaper, Sunday Sept. 25, 2005
[ http://www.guardiannewsngr.com/news/article02/250905 ]

" ..... However, Lagos lawyer Festus Keyamo insists that a lot of people are missing the issues at stake -constitutional immunity with diplomatic immunity.

He said: "While constitutional immunity strictly applies to people in Nigeria and Nigerians, diplomatic immunity is subject to two countries and laws of the country where the person is being held.

"The issue of governor of Bayelsa State has nothing to do with the domestic constitutional immunity, but diplomatic immunity." ... "

Does his right to protest give him the latitude to threaten the lives of residents/citizens of Nigeria going about their lawful activites.. or the right to incite people to carry out the same?? ..

There are laws against seditious/treasonable utterances by individuals for very good reasons.. the last crisis that happened in the Niger Delta [in Delta state in particular] was started by individuals excersising their right to protest.. And we can all bear witness to the associated loss of life that happened at that particular period..

Don't get me wrong.. I'm not against people excercising their rights to protest, but I'm sure against it when it involves loss of innocent lives..

which school do u study at? and which branch of engineering??

@ Otokx...

This is exactly the thing which boggles my mind...

Here we are having people which supposedly are against the arrest of someone who has partaken in questionable practices.. Just because he carries a "Diplomatic Passport"...

Ok.. What should we now do?..

Should we continue to indulge such individuals in their practises.. under the umbrella of Diplomatic Immunity..  Or should we let due process handle the issue for us..

In Nigeria, we are ham-strung by laws abused by these so-called holders of "Diplomatic Immunity".. And overseas, where they can be investigated and prosecuted for their crimes [if proven guilty], they should be allowed to roam free.. since some peoples' feathers are ruffled by the fact that prosecuting them would be in vagrant disregard of their "Diplomatic" status..

So we should allow them to continue in their nefarious activities, till it gets to the point where they can now escape into the sunset.. beyond the reach of all asundry..

ps..
Please correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't Diplomatic status a privledge confered on some individuals and not a right.. and this privlidge can be waived by the conferring nation if they so desire We have all seen the reports that the investigation by the British police is being assisted by the EFCC.. In addition, the individual in question was not on any official trip to the UK, neither did he inform the Nigerian High Commision [or is it Consulate] of his trip to or through the UK.. [as has been mentioned in the National Dailies..]..

So.. where does that leave us??

otokx:
we are all missing the point the british police does not have the right to arrest any nigerian carrying a diplomatic pasport regardless of what ever crime he commits.