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Islam › Re: Nobody Can Corrupt The Bible by cleanvessel(m): 9:14am On Jun 07, 2013

@golpen
Thanks for your detailed explanations. I can see clearly your opinions about the bible, which you have a right to.

You said torah and gospel did not vanish, they are only incorporated into the quran. As true as that may be, the quran still admits that they existed as separate Books. It puts it this way: People of the Book or People of the Scripture. In fact in Sura 21:105 it is said to be written documents. You probably will agree with me that quran is not their replacement.

The question still remains:

1. Where are these written documents?

2. Is it not because they got lost that Allah had to incorporate them into the quran to avoid going into extinction?

3. What are the contents of the torah and gospei as distinct from the quran for which Muhammad was raised?

4.. Why did Allah have to repeat their contents in the quran if they are available already and intact?

What are your opinions on these four points/questions? Thank you very much.

Islam › Re: Who Is an Anti-christ Btw Islam & Christianity by cleanvessel(m): 8:19am On Jun 07, 2013

I repeat, you are a minister of anti-Christ. You and your anti-Christ agents on the internet that you paste their errors are not capable of winning souls to hellfire meant for the muslims.

You always quote Paul out of context. With your mind to criticize you cannot see clearly the real meanings of his statements, moreso that you have no training in the bible.

You keep attacking Paul wrongly as the founder of Christianity. That is one of the proofs that you are not versed in the bible, you only quote the statements of your mentors on the net.

Muhammad was the founder of islam. He claimed he received revelations from a spirit and you believe. How are sure you he truly received revelation from a spirit? Were you there? Who else saw the spirit for confirmation? HOW ARE YOU SURE THE SPIRIT THAT SPOKE TO MUHAMMAD (if at all) WAS NOT THE SPIRIT OF ANTI-CHRIST GOING BY THE MESSAGES HE REVEALED? In Buddaism, Ekanka etc, they too all see spirits giving them messages.

Please tell us where God promised sending Muhammad? A prophet whose mission has to do with salvation of mankind must have his coming announced by God. Somebody cannot just wake up one day and claim he brings good news to mankind. There has to be confirmation from God. God speaks to all prophets but Muhammad.

If it was God who sent Gabriel, He would have spoken for his confirmation. God never spoke to Muhammad except in his one-night dream to paradise.

Tell me, which of the prophets God sent an angel to appoint like Muhammad? It is God Himself who appoints His prophets. Muhammad's case is like the president of a nation sending his messenger to appoint a minister.Where do see that done. Angels are but God's messengers. Muhammad was used by the spirit of anti-Christ who pretended to have come from God. That Gabriel was not the true God's Gabriel. Islam was introduced and controlled by the spirit of anti-Christ.

1 Like

Islam › Re: Who Is an Anti-christ Btw Islam & Christianity by cleanvessel(m): 11:16pm On Jun 06, 2013

My friend, you are interpreting the Bible wrongly. What I have given above is enough for you if you are a child of salvation. You had better face you quran and stop dabling into the bible you don't have training about.

Islam › Re: Who Is an Anti-christ Btw Islam & Christianity by cleanvessel(m): 8:39pm On Jun 06, 2013

ayenny02: Follow Jesus or Follow Paul?

The New Testament gives us a choice; either we follow Jesus Christ, or the anti-Christ Paul of Tarsus: Each one demands his followers to accept his teachings:

Be ye followers of me… that ye remember me in all things, and keep the ordinances, as I delivered [them] to you. (1 Corinthians 11:1)

“If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed” (John 8:31)

According to Deuteronomy 24:16, Ezekiel 18:20-21, and Micah 6:7-8, a man is responsible for his own sin. Jesus rejected the Pauline doctrine of “vicarious atonement”. Compare the two passages below:

And almost all things are by the law purged with blood; and without shedding of blood is no remission. (Hebrews 9:22)

Jesus was teaching his disciples in the outer court of the Temple and one of them said unto him: Master, it is said by the priests that without shedding of blood there is no remission. Can then the blood offering of the law take away sin? And Jesus answered: No blood offering, of beast or bird, or man, can take away sin, for how can the conscience be purged from sin by the shedding of innocent blood? Nay, it will increase the condemnation. (Gospel of the Nazorenes, Lection 33, verses 1-2)
Jesus was circumcised, Paul rejected circumcision:

This [is] my covenant, which ye shall keep, between me and you and thy seed after thee; Every man child among you shall be circumcised. And the uncircumcised man child whose flesh of his foreskin is not circumcised, that soul shall be cut off from his people; he hath broken my covenant. (Genesis 17:14)

On the eighth day, when it was time to circumcise him, he was named Jesus, the name the angel had given him before he had been conceived. (Luke 2:21)

The Jewish Law commands the circumcision on the eighth day. The reason why Christians are not circumcised is because they follow Paul. They have broken the covenant of Circumcision according to Jesus himself (5:19)

For in Jesus Christ neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision; but faith which worketh by love. (Galatians 5:6, KJV)

The Talmud states the following to those who break the Covenant:

"The one who voids the covenant of Abraham has no portion in the world to come (Avot 3:16).

Christians may not have any “portion in the world to come” because they have totally rejected the Message of Jesus, replacing the Gospel with the Gospel of Paul.

Jesus taught Salvation comes through Faith and Works, Paul distorted it:

Jesus taught salvation is attained by keeping the commandments, physical prayer, fasting, and observing the Law of Moses. Paul neglected these commands and distorted the Path to Salvation preached by Jesus.

Paul said that “salvation comes through faith and grace” which is exactly what the missionaries are saying today.

Jesus Forbade the Gentiles:

These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into [any] city of the Samaritans enter ye not:

But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel. (Matthew 10:5-6)

But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel. (Matthew 15:24)

Paul rejected this command of NOT preaching to the Gentiles, they were restricted. Paul openly preached among the Gentiles, a totally different religion:

For I speak to you Gentiles, inasmuch as I am the apostle of the Gentiles, I magnify mine office: (Romans 11:13

AND MANY MORE......

The New Testament was written under the influence of Paul, the four Gospel writers were Gentile converts to Pauline Christianity. Hence, there is nothing Jewish about the New Testament, it was solely written for Pauline Christians whose background was pagan.

The Hebrew Scriptures of the Nazarenes and Ebionites were destroyed by the Pauline Church. The original sayings of Jesus were lost forever. The New Testament today exists in Greek, and not Hebrew or Aramaic, the spoken tongues of Jesus.

The Gospel of Matthew seems to be the “most Jewish” book in the New Testament,

Luke was a Gentile and not eye-witness

Mark was Barnabas’s nephew and not eye-witness

John was martyred decades before the Gospel (bearing his name) was even written.

Nevertheless, the four Gospels are NOT mentioned by name before the year 190 CE. We have scholarly quotations to back this claim.

Your reports are very contradictory. I asked you to mention the names of Jesus disciples on purpose:
1. I want you to say for yourself who Jesus disciples were and you scored a pass mark by naming the correct twelve.

2. I am sure you know Nazarenes was not among the twelve disciples you mentioned. Who is Nazarenes? His account is not believable because he was not a disciple. Even though Paul was not among the twelve but we knew and accepted that he joined them later.

3. You also mentioned Avot 3:16. Who is Avot? His writing is not recorgnised as he was not a disciple.

4. You said the Gospel of Matthew seems to be the most Jewish book in the New Testament. Mathew was an eye-witness but Luke and Mark were not eye-witnesses according to you. But you said earlier that Luke and Mark were among the disciples. Why are you contradicting yourself? If Luke and Mark were disciples, how are they not eye-witnesses?

5. You said John was martyred decades before the Gospel. Which John? Remember you mentioned John as one of the disciples. I say again, your report is nothing to write home about.

ISRAEL AND THE GENTILES

It is true that Israel was God's chosen people. They were favoured by God. All the past prophets were from there up to the time of Jesus. Even the quran supports that Israel was a favoured people.

[Shakir 38:44]
And take in your hand a green branch and beat her with It and do not break your oath; surely We found him patient; most excellent the servant! Surely he was frequent m returning (to Allah).

[Shakir 38:45]
And remember Our servants Ibrahim and Ishaq and Yaqoub, men of power and insight.

[Shakir 38:46]
Surely We purified them by a pure quality, the keeping m mind of the (final) abode.

[Shakir 38:47] And most surely they were with Us, of the elect, the best.

Shakir 2:47]
O children of Israel! call to mind My favor which I bestowed on you and that I made you excel the nations

Because Israel was favoured they had to be attended to first but Jesus was not sent to them alone . When Jesus was being named in the Temple, the priest made the following statement:

Luke 2:30
For mine eyes have seen thy salvation,

Luke 2:31
Which thou hast prepared before the face of all people;

Luke 2:32
A light to lighten the GENTILES, and the glory of thy people Israel.

Further confirmations that Jesus was not sent to Israel alone it was just that they were attended to first.

Luke 24:46
And said unto them, Thus it is written, and thus it behooved Christ to suffer, and to rise from the dead the third day:

Luke 24:47
And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all NATIONS BEGINNING AT JERUSALEM.

Matthew 28:19
Go ye therefore, and teach ALL NATIONS, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost.

Quran also confirms Jesus is for MEN:

[Shakir 19:21]
He said: Even so; your Lord says: It is easy to Me: and that We may make him a sign to men and a mercy from Us, and it is a matter which has been decreed.

[Shakir 19:22] So she conceived him; then withdrew herself with him to a remote place.

In all of the above, where do you see Paul's writing?

Before I stop,you mentioned Mathew was an eye-witness. Please study the book of Mathew very well and tell the whole muslim world to believe the Gospel contained therein.

I pray God will forgive you for your deliberate attempt mislead innocent souls in the name of defending your religion.Your stereo-typed posts you obtained from anti-Christ sites is full of errors. They are instruments for the coming anti-Christ. Infact you are qualified to be a minister under anti-Christ government because you are working so hard for it. Thank you.

Islam › Re: Jesus Will Follow Which Religion When Comes Back? by cleanvessel(m): 5:15pm On Jun 06, 2013

lanrexlan: What's the degree of your problem? The hadith is very clear,there are many other hadiths where prophet muhammed(pbuh) usually starts with BY HIM IN WHOSE HAND MY SOUL IS,he referring to Allah,his creator,not Jesus(pbuh).

Too much groundnuts,better limit it.We muslims honour Jesus(pbuh) sending peace upon him when his name is mentioned.Do christians even honour him at all?

Eh yah,sorry you hear.Don't pluralize it,Jesus hold your life not our lives.I just pity you,on the day of judgement Jesus(pbuh) will deny you.Even when you are put in your grave,that's when you will realise that Jesus(pbuh) is a human and a messenger of God and has no share in divinity,turn to the creator of heavens and earth and worship him alone.....Peace

Can you give us other hadiths where Muhammad started his statement with '' by the one whose hands my life is in''.

Islam › Re: Who Is an Anti-christ Btw Islam & Christianity by cleanvessel(m): 4:13pm On Jun 06, 2013

ayenny02: Who was the founder of christianity? Was it Jesus or Paul?
Can you tell me that the teaching of Paul was not against the teaching of Jesus(as)

However, if u examine the bible carefully, u would observe that Paul and the disciples were not preaching the same doctrine and did not believe in the same Jesus.

1. Let me ask you: who are the disciples of Jesus?

2. What are the teachings of Jesus?

3. What are the teachings of Paul?

4. Can you bring out the differences.

5. Those people you quoted as saying many things against the writings of Paul, were they Christians or Muslims? If they were Christians, did they continue believing the Bible or converted to Islam?

Christianity Etc › Re: The Prophets Of Hell by cleanvessel(m): 3:47pm On Jun 06, 2013

Brothers and Sisters in Christ, please be careful about the words of frosbel: he is not a Christian. He is only pretending to be one. He is out to weaken Christians' faith and ridicule Christianity. He supports the other religion in religious discussions where it matters. Pls and pls he's not representing Christianity. Let him not continue to fool the Christians.

1 Like

Islam › Re: Nobody Can Corrupt The Bible by cleanvessel(m): 11:58am On Jun 06, 2013

@ goipen
Even though you have said bye bye but don't go yet because there questions I want to ask you based on your statement.

1. You said the bible is not the torah and gospel because you discovered inconsistencies in it. Is that right? Are you saying there are no discripancies in the quran? You cannot be cock-sure the quran is free from errors because it was the revelations that was given to Muhammad not the writing.

The writing was the work of men, especially those written after Muhammad's death. Gabriel did not speak to the writers to confirm whether they were right or not. You know, when Muhammad was around, Satan tried to include some verses in the quran if not for the quick intervention of Allah. But unfortunately, when men were writing after Muhammad, the writers were not in a position to hear from Allah if Satan has removed some verses from their memories and replaced them with his own. You know Satan is stturbon and will always try till he succeeds. Muhammad alone could hear from Allah in islam.

2. You agreed the quran is not the torah and the gospel but it contains part or all of the torah and gospel. I'm I right? How do you know the torah and the gospel inside the quran since you probably have not seen the torah and gospel before and even now.

3. You said you cannot locate the torah and gospel. It seems everybody including the quran is saying both books once existed and it appears nobody, like you said, can locate them. The question therefore is where are they? Are they lost?

4. If they are lost as it appears, does it not mean Allah did not protect them? What is your view about their being vanished?

5. Since you said the bible is not the torah and the gospel, I think that should settle the case as far as you are concerned and those who believe you would have taken note. I don't think you should bother about somebody confirming your belief for you by answering your question whether the bible is corrupt or not. Afterall what do you expect from a book authored by men. Except you are not sure and want confirmation from others. Isn't it?

Islam › Re: Jesus Will Follow Which Religion When Comes Back? by cleanvessel(m): 10:35am On Jun 06, 2013

@ ayenny02
You have proved to the readers that your religion is a FRAUD. Islam is about falsifying the word of God by changing what He says.

I said ''all your statements are good but for a joke'' but when you wanted to quote me you said: ''all your statements are good. Does that convey the same message? That is exactly what quran does - deliberately misquoting God's words, an attribute of Satan.

1 Like

Islam › Re: Jesus Will Follow Which Religion When Comes Back? by cleanvessel(m): 9:53am On Jun 06, 2013*

You muslim guys are very funny. All your statements are good but for a joke. When you guys don't have good points you turn to abuses. People who abuse are those who have nothing to say.

1. None of the people in the bible prayed like the muslims. No one completed the ablution process. No washing of mouth, noise, ear etc and no facing kabah. It is all a lie. A Christian can take any position to pray, including prostrating, lying facing up or down, sitting and faceing anywhere because our God is everywhere.

2. Muslims way of praying is a continuation of moo-god worship. They way the muslims pray today is the same way Muhammad met his family praying before he turned it to islam. Moon is the symbol of islam because it is a worship of the moon-god. Everything about islam is about moon including the ramadan fasting. I know your common excuse is that moon is Gods creation. Every instrument the devil use is created by God.

3. How then do you in your imagination think Jesus will come for idol worshipers the muslims are. It is a pity the devil made you believe you are worshiping God but it will be too late before you will realize it. Even ifa (an idol in yoruba) faithfuls too believe they are worshiping Olodumare (God).

4. You guys say you honour Jesus by praying for him. Do you think he is Muhammad that was pleading for prayers because he was not sure of his destination after death? Who are you to pray for Jesus in heaven? Sinners praying for the saint. It is amusing. Your prayer for the death muslims cannot work, it is share ignorance. If prayer works for the dead, nobody will go to hell.

Christianity Etc › Re: "I Traveled To Mecca And Came Back To Become A Pastor" by cleanvessel(m): 3:32pm On May 27, 2013

Mintayo: my dear,you dnt knw dis ppl-they will do anything like twisting d quran to prove 'nothing'! It is like they knw more than d writer himself;allah made a mistake in d quran,so they are d ones to correct it!
That allah called Jesus d messiah is a lie even when it is even in their book!
Its shows that allah is a confused god and his followers have been following his confused steps!
Jesus is d messiah and d saviour,there is nothing anybody can do about that!

Funny the guy is calling some prophets and kings in d Bible messiah-dey r nt allah's messengers or prophets again but messiah...lols!
I bet dey will say mohammed is a messiah too against allah's word I cnt laugh...they will lie to say anything!
The Bible didnt call any prophet or kings messiah,d quran even didnt call dem messiah except Jesus now dey r saying quran is lying o!

Jesus means-The Lord saves(saviour).

Praise God!

Alleluyah!

Christianity Etc › Re: "I Traveled To Mecca And Came Back To Become A Pastor" by cleanvessel(m): 9:02am On May 27, 2013

ayenny02: Luke 16:19-26

19 There was a certain rich man, which was clothed in purple and fine linen, and fared sumptuously every day:

20 And there was a certain beggar named Lazarus, which was laid at his gate, full of sores,

21 And desiring to be fed with the crumbs which fell from the rich man's table: moreover the dogs came and licked his sores.

22 And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried;

23 And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.

24 And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.

25 But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented.

26 And beside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that would come from thence

MAYBE YOU SHOULD EXPLAIN THE VERSE BECOS I DON'T SEE WHERE IT MENTIONED THAT CHRISTIAN ARE IN PARADISE. LIAR ]Is God or Jesus the Savior?

"For it is for this we labor and strive, because we have fixed our hope on the living God, who is the Savior of all men, especially of believers," (1 Tim. 4:10,
Isaiah 43:10-11
10 Ye are my witnesses, saith the Lord, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me.

11. I, even I, am the Lord; and beside me there is no saviour).

It says that God (not Jesus) is the Savior of all men,

The traditional title of Messiah, or "anointed one" was an honorary title of God's appointed King/Prophet of the Israelites.

Saul was a messiah, David was a Messiah, Zedekiah, the last king of Israel of the line of Judah was a Messiah.

In islam, Allah used the Arabic word "Masih" and we have two MASIH in islam,
MASIH JESUS and MASIH DAJJAL

If christians translate MASIH to MESSIAH then we can call DAJJAL (anti-christ), a MESSIAL.

My Question for christians is that they should go and find the Meaning of MESSIAL DAJJAL too, or can we call it SAVIOUR DAJJAL (anti-christ) if Messiah mean Savior to you.

Your quran said an angel called Jesus the Messiah, So you don't believe your quran again becos you want to argue?

1 Like

Christianity Etc › Re: "I Traveled To Mecca And Came Back To Become A Pastor" by cleanvessel(m): 7:47pm On May 26, 2013

kingron: Well..i was once a muslim also,nd am happy to be a convert, christ is real nd he wud always be real. after dying as a muslim on a cold night nd coming back to life with d help of a pastor who prayed 4me (was told) i know christ is d way!!! it's really not hard to see that Jesus is d way, d truth nd d light.

Congratulations! Congratulation!! Congratulations!!!

The Lord will continue to uphold you in Jesus name.

Christianity Etc › Re: "I Traveled To Mecca And Came Back To Become A Pastor" by cleanvessel(m): 7:06pm On May 26, 2013

ayenny02

Many people are in paradise/heaven (Luke 16:19-26).

Jesus is in heaven and He ALONE is the Savior (MESSIAH). See

Pickthall 3:45: (And remember) when the angels said O Mary! Lo! Allah giveth thee glad tidings of a word from Him, whose name is the MESSIAH, Jesus son of Mary, illustrious in the world and Hereafter and one of those brought near (unto Allah).

As you can see, even the Quran said Jesus is the Savior (Messiah), not Muhammad.

Jesus is in Heaven because is brought near to Allah and Jesus followers are given assurance of Heaven, not Hellfire (John 14:2-3)

But Muhammad and his followers are in Hellfire and all muslims will be in Hellfire with him. I REFER YOU TO A THREAD ''Muslims Are In Hellfire Pending Resurrection Day''. I believe you will repent and follow Jesus (Messiah) OR else you too will go to Hellfire like other muslims.

Christianity Etc › Re: "I Traveled To Mecca And Came Back To Become A Pastor" by cleanvessel(m): 4:34pm On May 26, 2013

ayenny02 & lanrexlan

The fight for your religion should stop. Your soul is more important than your religion.

There are so many things in the Quran that make a spiritually minded people to doubt it as being the word of the true God.

Muhammad did a lot of things that if a man does same today, even you people will shout.

Allah made some statements that the true God will not make.

Then the Quran is a third party information, even though you people say it is from Allah. Muhammad dictated the revelations to the scribes to write down. What is the certainty that what Allah told him, which he dictated was the ones written down by the scribes.

Human memory is not perfect. There is no certainty that he remembered everything Allah told him, since it took some years before he appointed scribes to put them in writing. If what he remember was more or it was less, it would give a different meaning from Allah's intentions.

Finally, no matter how beautiful, authoritative and authentic you people say the Quran is, what it promises its faithful is HELLFIRE. And that shows Quran is not the word of the true God and Islam does not grant SALVATION. All muslims are in Helfire and once in hell is forever in hell.

Islam › Re: For Muslims: Contradictions In The Quran by cleanvessel(m): 7:29pm On May 06, 2013

LagosShia: Sweetheart,
There is no contradiction in the above instances you brought out.don't turn yourself into a clown.and secondly I can assure you that I've tried my best to spot a contradiction in the Quran myself and unlike the bible which is full of all sorts of errors and contradictions,the Quran has none!

And please don't ask me to waste my time to explain the instances you brought.christians have previously tried harder than the above and failed even on nairaland here.it surely would make you feel good about yourself by having a wet dream that there is contradiction in the Quran.

So I leave it up to you to think,rationalize and for yourself to explain and tell us why the instances you brought are not contradictory.tell us and prove you're not dumb!

You are a liar like your quran. Everyone can see there are sharp contradictions and all you can say is that there are no contradictions. Where is your explanation to prove there are no contradictions?

Islam › Re: Allahu Written On A Rock In Osogbo (pics) by cleanvessel(m): 6:23pm On May 06, 2013

Aminat508: i was there yesterday, it is real and truth! Almighty Allah can do anyting, is not for u to believe and not believe, surely those who wil believe wil'' and those who will not will definately not'

Truly Allah teaches by pen (Quran 96:4). He loves writing anywhere and on anything. He taught Muhammad by pen but yet he remained and died an illiterate man. Can Allah do any other miracles than writing? Lying wonders.

Islam › Re: 8 Reasons Why I Don’t Feel Guilty About The Boston (or Boko) Bombings by cleanvessel(m): 5:57pm On May 05, 2013

vedaxcool: thaba nice one!

One thing I have come to learn is that there is a lot of similarities between alqaeda, a terrorist and the same anti - Muslim bigot, they all have deep hatred for everything they do not understand

''.....they all have deep hatred for everything they do not understand''

You people talk as if the non-muslims don't understand islam. What is there in islam that is secret that could not be understood? Quran is interpreted to many languages. What for? Is it not for people to understand? Are you saying the interpretations are not the same with the arabic meaning?

Let us look at terrorism by muslims from spiritual point of view:

No defence for islam on terrorism and violence. The religion started on a violent note. Gabriel did not come to Muhammad with love or peace. He started his revelations with tormenting his messanger, showing him an example.

What is terrorism? There are over four score of injunctions in the Quran where muslims are commanded to kill the unbelievers. Who is an unbeliever? The non-muslim. You say not unprovoked? What is your definition of your provocation?

The Bible says Ishmael (Muhammad's ancestor) and his descendant shall be wild people. Their hands shall be upon everybody and everybody's hand shall be upon them.

Islam › Re: The True Religion Of God by cleanvessel(m): 8:42pm On Feb 12, 2013

deols: do you finish your meal before starting to eat. That is logical enough . You sound like a learner

You only want to say something when actually you have said nothing. Anyway, you are exercising your freedom of speech.

Christianity Etc › Re: Jesus And God by cleanvessel(op): 4:49pm On Feb 11, 2013*

F00028: I am not asking for physical evidence. I am asking you if Jesus said they are "one", then what does it mean exactly? because from where I stand certain verses e.g mat. 19:16, john 20:17, 8:28, 14:28 would seem to preclude certain interpretations.

because 1,400 years ago a man who couldn't read or write brings forth a book revealing things about this world that only its Creator could know. what else could it be?

What is said in the Quran about this world that only the Creator could know? I put it to you that Satan also knows everything about this world because he is here. He also knows so much about heaven because he was from there.

About a man you said could not read, why should he be forced to read? Did Allah not know he could not read before he almost killed him for his inability to read? Is that not injustice on Allah's part. What type of god is Allah who punished the innocent illiterate man for not being able to read? Was he afterwards able to read after the torture?

Besides, what was the illiterate man commanded to read? Gabriel was meeting him for the first time and did not come with any written document.

Christianity Etc › Re: Jesus And God by cleanvessel(op): 5:27pm On Feb 10, 2013

F00028: if its a mystery why do you quote it?
you dont know what it really means

if I say "one" means they are one in purpose and not in essence, how are you gonna prove I am not correct?

Belief is a matter of faith. Spiritual things often times cannot be proved as no physical evidence might be available. Muhammad claimed he received revelations from Allah's angel, Gabriel and you believe it. How do you prove this was so?

Christianity Etc › Re: Jesus And God by cleanvessel(op): 1:50pm On Feb 10, 2013

F00028: john 14:20- you will see as Jesus is in the Father, the disciples are in him and he in them. does that makes them deities too?

Christianity Etc › Re: Jesus And God by cleanvessel(op): 1:50pm On Feb 10, 2013

F00028: john 14:20- you will see as Jesus is in the Father, the disciples are in him and he in them. does that makes them deities too?

No. Jesus said He and His Father are one. How? He (Jesus) alone knows. This is the mystery (I Timothy 3:16).

We know Jesus does not tell lies. His name is the Truth and He is faultless (John 14:6, Quran 19:19).

Christianity Etc › Jesus And God by cleanvessel(op): 9:42am On Feb 10, 2013*

John 14:7-9
If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father (God) also: and from henceforth ye know him (Jesus) and have seen him (Jesus).

Philip said unto him, Lord, shew us the Father and it sufficeth us.

Jesus said unto him, Have I been so long time with you and yet hast thou not known me, (as the Father) Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father, and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father?

John 10:30
I and my Father are ONE (the same Being, inseparable).

I Timothy 3:16
And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh (Jesus) justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up in glory (Jesus ascension to heaven).

The person of Jesus is a mystery beyond physical and sensory understanding. ANY REVELATIONS OR ANGEL THAT DENY THE TRUE BEING OF JESUS IS NOT FROM GOD.

NOTE: The words in brackets are the thread writter's comment.

Islam › Re: The True Religion Of God by cleanvessel(m): 8:52pm On Feb 09, 2013*

Quran 5:3
''This day I have perfected your religion for you .......''

I have perfected your religion for you means it was imperfect before but now made perfect possibly after additions and subtractions.

Why would Allah do something imperfect before perfecting it?

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