₦airaland Forum

Kobojunkie:
Are you sure about that?

UsmanBabaIdris:
If the doctrine of the Trinity is correct- and the church does indeed declare that it is the most important theological teaching of Christianityï then why did it take over 350 years for Christians to figure it out? This long history of the development of the doctrine of the Trinity makes it suspicious, suggesting that this teaching is of men and not of God.

We allege that the doctrine of the Trinity is confusing, contradictory, irrational, unbiblical, and thus wrong. The church has defended its Trinitarianism against these allegations mostly by claiming it is a mystery that humans can't understand. But this foolish admission renders those church fathers who formulated it as not understanding it either! Moreover, this defense can be applied to any false teaching.

Trinitarianism does not represent the beliefs of the Christians of the first century. Furthermore, we think those Jewish Christians were strict monotheists who had never heard of the notion that their one God consists of three persons. Nor did they believe in the so-called Incarnation - the preexisting God the Son coming down from heaven to become the man Jesus.

Jesus said in John 17:3
"Now this is eternal life: that they know you, the only true God , and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent."

Notice how the Father is being referred to as THE ONLY TRUE GOD.

How is it possible for the Father to be the ONLY true God, while at the same time the Son and Holy Spirit are God as well? If the Son and Holy Spirit are God as well, then it is false to say that the Father is the ONLY true God.

Thus, in light of John 17:3 we see that the concept of Trinity is logically incoherent. It is not simply a matter of it being beyond our logic, but AGAINST our logic. If it is AGAINST our logic then that means that it is a false belief.

GOD is ONE in both Essence and Person!

Maximus69:
By then their TRINITY will turn to TWONITY, since only Jehovah and Jesus are the real persons and there is nowhere to place their holy ghost!

shadeyinka:
According to JW doctrines, does the word soul have only one synonym?
Please read Gen35:18 and tell me that the word Nephesh means Person

https://biblehub.com/interlinear/genesis/35-18.htm

shadeyinka:
According to JW doctrines, does the word soul have only one synonym? Please read Gen35:18 and tell me that the word Nephesh means Person
https://biblehub.com/interlinear/genesis/35-18.htm

Kobojunkie:
Where is the source of this?

shadeyinka:
No Sir! Killing the body is different from killing the soul.
Only God can kill/destroy the soul.
Humans can only kill the body

Nephesh in Hebrew means several things depending on its context
1. Person/People
2. Being
3. Heart/Mind
4. Personality
5. Inner being
6. Creature
7. Soul
8. Life

Dictionary Definition
the spiritual or immaterial part of a human being or animal, regarded as immortal.
synonyms:
psyche · inner self · inner being · essential being · pneuma · anima · ego · id · ka · atman
a person's moral or emotional nature or sense of identity.
"in the depths of her soul, she knew he would betray her"
synonyms:
spirit · psyche · (inner) self · innermost self · (inner) ego · inner being · [more]
emotional or intellectual energy or intensity, especially as revealed in a work of art or an artistic performance.
"their interpretation lacked soul"
synonyms:
inspiration · feeling · emotion · passion · animation · intensity · fervour · [more]
black American culture or ethnic pride.
the essence or embodiment of a specified quality.
"he was the soul of discretion" · [more]
synonyms:
embodiment · personification · incarnation · epitome · quintessence · [more]


18 Just as her life was slipping away* (for she was dying), she named him Ben-oʹni,* but his father called him Benjamin.*+

Please check out:Gen35:18 below: the Nephesh leaves the body

shadeyinka:
Bad question!
For God so loved the World....Jn3:16
Love not the World nor the things in it...1 John 2:15
Do the two World mean exactly the same thing?

According to Jehovah's witness doctrine is there just one synonym for SOUL?
Let me help you by giving you just one out of the several definitions of Soul
The Bible also uses “soul” as a synonym for “life.” For example, Job 33:22 uses the Hebrew word for “soul” (neʹphesh) as a parallel for “life.” Similarly, the Bible shows that a person’s soul, or life, can be risked or lost.​—Exodus 4:​19; Judges 9:​17; Philippians 2:​30.

shadeyinka:
The scripture Mt10:28 is so simple. You wont want to look at it simply because it conflicts with what your church teaches: nothing more

Matthew 10:28
Do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul . Rather, be afraid of the One who can destroy both soul and body in hell.

1. Human beings can kill the body
And this the the maximum that a human being can do against us
2. Only God has the power to kill the body AND thereafter also deal with his soul
3. We should therefore not be afraid of human beings who are limited in the harm they can cause us.
4. Of course the Soul is different from the Body else the scripture above is meaningless.

Some human beings are fond of explaining away a scripture with unrelated scriptures just to retain their illusions.

DrLiveLogic:
Without Him, God cannot be omnipotent and cannot be God.

shadeyinka:
the SOUL gives the body life.

shadeyinka:
I know that you people do not like looking at the text of Christs words if it conflicts with your official church position.

Matthew 10:28
Do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul . Rather, be afraid of the One who can destroy both soul and body in hell.

Let me rephrase the above scripture according to your theology and lets see
Matthew 10:28
Do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul body . Rather, be afraid of the One who can destroy both soul body and body in hell.

For your sake, lets assume that the above scripture is a parable, Does this scripture make any sense as amended above?

In other words, the BODY is not the same as the SOUL of man. The scripture makes sense only as Christ has presented it.
The SOUL is that which gives the BODY life. If man can kill the SOUL of man, what make them different from GOD apart from resurrection?.



Cant you see that you've just contradicted yourself with the use of the conjunction AND meaning that the Body is different from the soul.

Using your "parable theory", Adam was created in a Second Death state which technically should be nonexistence/annihilation. If dead soul is lifeless, it cannot be different from the first death?

Your conjectures seem to be breaking down on scrutiny.

shadeyinka:
I know that you people do not like looking at the text of Christs words if it conflicts with your official church position.

Matthew 10:28
Do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul . Rather, be afraid of the One who can destroy both soul and body in hell.

Let me rephrase the above scripture according to your theology and lets see
Matthew 10:28
Do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul body . Rather, be afraid of the One who can destroy both soul body and body in hell.

For your sake, lets assume that the above scripture is a parable, Does this scripture make any sense as amended above?

In other words, the BODY is not the same as the SOUL of man. The scripture makes sense only as Christ has presented it.
The SOUL is that which gives the BODY life. If man can kill the SOUL of man, what make them different from GOD apart from resurrection?.



Cant you see that you've just contradicted yourself with the use of the conjunction AND meaning that the Body is different from the soul.

Using your "parable theory", Adam was created in a Second Death state which technically should be nonexistence/annihilation. If dead soul is lifeless, it cannot be different from the first death?

Your conjectures seem to be breaking down on scrutiny.

shadeyinka:
I know that you people do not like looking at the text of Christs words if it conflicts with your official church position.

Matthew 10:28
Do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul . Rather, be afraid of the One who can destroy both soul and body in hell.

Let me rephrase the above scripture according to your theology and lets see
Matthew 10:28
Do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul body . Rather, be afraid of the One who can destroy both soul body and body in hell.

For your sake, lets assume that the above scripture is a parable, Does this scripture make any sense as amended above?

In other words, the BODY is not the same as the SOUL of man. The scripture makes sense only as Christ has presented it.
The SOUL is that which gives the BODY life. If man can kill the SOUL of man, what make them different from GOD apart from resurrection?.



Cant you see that you've just contradicted yourself with the use of the conjunction AND meaning that the Body is different from the soul.

Using your "parable theory", Adam was created in a Second Death state which technically should be nonexistence/annihilation. If dead soul is lifeless, it cannot be different from the first death?

Your conjectures seem to be breaking down on scrutiny.

Truvel:
D Body, D Spirit & D Soul. E.g D Body Is Just Like D Clothes We Put On. D Spirit Is Like Our Body While D Soul Comprises Of Our Thoughts, Emotions Or Feelings Dat Gives D Sense Of Awareness.

Kobojunkie:
Again, you need to carefully examine your own assertions...
The verse from Deuteronomy suggested that you worship God with your Soul and Strength i.e. Soul + Strength
But according to your Soul(Spirit + Body) + strength
So, since the Soul condition already captures both the spirit and body of man, what does 'strength' there refer to?

DrLiveLogic:
It's one thing to ask for explanation. It's another to point out confusion or misrepresentation. Go through #1 to #5 and see if there is any misrepresentation of facts from the bible. Then when you can agree that all that is in the Bible, and that Jesus has no separate throne from the Father but is seated on one throne with Him, then I'll come and explain the gospel to you and you will see how simple it is to fit your 1Cor 15, into the full story. Your JW brothers here should have told you the little part I've taught them about the difference between the Word as Divinity before creation and the Son of God role he came to assume to help man to fulfill destiny. Ask them. I'll come back to edit this post and give you the full answer. Also watch out for my thread on the Godhead, coming soon. All your confusion will be dissolved. LMAO.

DrLiveLogic:
It's one thing to ask for explanation. It's another to point out confusion or misrepresentation. Go through #1 to #5 and see if there is any misrepresentation of facts from the bible. Then when you can agree that all that is in the Bible, and that Jesus has no separate throne from the Father but is seated on one throne with Him, then I'll come and explain the gospel to you and you will see how simple it is to fit your 1Cor 15, into the full story. Your JW brothers here should have told you the little part I've taught them about the difference between the Word as Divinity before creation and the Son of God role he came to assume to help man to fulfill destiny. Ask them. I'll come back to edit this post and give you the full answer. Also watch out for my thread on the Godhead, coming soon. All your confusion will be dissolved. LMAO.

DrLiveLogic:
#5 Creator of Heavens and Earth vs created angels (is Jesus an angel?)

Chapters 1&2 of Hebrews were written particularly to point out that the Word is not and never was an angel but the creator who took flesh of mankind and became the only begotten son. It is a shame that after Paul's painstaking effort, some mischievous fellows still dubiously claim that the Word is angel Michael. I have already begun treating this but will continue where I left off. Paul quites the OT prophecy below

Psa 102:22-27 ...when the people are gathered and united, and the kingdoms, to serve YAHWEH who subdued His power in His way and cut short His days. They will say, "O God, who were taken up in the middle of your days, yet your years are from generation to generation for in the beginning, you laid the foundation of the earth and the heavens are the product of your hands. They'll perish, but you'll remain. Yes! They'll all wear out like a cloth and as a vesture you'll change them, and they'll be changed while you are the same, and your years will have no end"

Here, the psalmist describes how the nations gathered to worship God, YAHWEH saying that though his earthly days were cut short, in reality, he lives on because he cannot possibly die who is creator of the heavens and the earth and the psalmist also shows that rather than creation putting an end to Him through the cross, he is the one that will rather put an end to his creation and change it like we change clothes i.e. you can expect Him at anytime he chooses to put an end to all he has created including angels and create afresh like how we take off old clothes and put on new clothes.

Paul cites this prophecy by the psalmist, to prove the son is the uncreated creator while the angels were only created, as he shows that to the son, it was said that he is the creator but of the angels it was said that they are created beings
Heb 1:7-12 ...and in fact concerning the angels was said, "who makes his angels spirits and his attendants a flame of fire" but to the Son was said...also, you, Lord, in the beginning laid the foundation of earth and the heavens are a product of your hands: They'll perish but you'll remain and they'll all wear out like a cloth and as a vesture you'll fold them up, and they'll be changed but you are the same, and your years will not fail"

So Paul proves that the Word who became flesh and then the son of God, who was also crucified is obviously the YAHWEH worshipped by the nation's gathered in the psalm and fulfilling the prophecy
According to Paul and the prophets, the Word is one Being with YAHWEH

DrLiveLogic:
#5 Creator of Heavens and Earth vs created angels (is Jesus an angel?)

Chapters 1&2 of Hebrews were written particularly to point out that the Word is not and never was an angel but the creator who took flesh of mankind and became the only begotten son. It is a shame that after Paul's painstaking effort, some mischievous fellows still dubiously claim that the Word is angel Michael. I have already begun treating this but will continue where I left off. Paul quites the OT prophecy below

Psa 102:22-27 ...when the people are gathered and united, and the kingdoms, to serve YAHWEH who subdued His power in His way and cut short His days. They will say, "O God, who were taken up in the middle of your days, yet your years are from generation to generation for in the beginning, you laid the foundation of the earth and the heavens are the product of your hands. They'll perish, but you'll remain. Yes! They'll all wear out like a cloth and as a vesture you'll change them, and they'll be changed while you are the same, and your years will have no end"

Here, the psalmist describes how the nations gathered to worship God, YAHWEH saying that though his earthly days were cut short, in reality, he lives on because he cannot possibly die who is creator of the heavens and the earth and the psalmist also shows that rather than creation putting an end to Him through the cross, he is the one that will rather put an end to his creation and change it like we change clothes i.e. you can expect Him at anytime he chooses to put an end to all he has created including angels and create afresh like how we take off old clothes and put on new clothes.

Paul cites this prophecy by the psalmist, to prove the son is the uncreated creator while the angels were only created, as he shows that to the son, it was said that he is the creator but of the angels it was said that they are created beings
Heb 1:7-12 ...and in fact concerning the angels was said, "who makes his angels spirits and his attendants a flame of fire" but to the Son was said...also, you, Lord, in the beginning laid the foundation of earth and the heavens are a product of your hands: They'll perish but you'll remain and they'll all wear out like a cloth and as a vesture you'll fold them up, and they'll be changed but you are the same, and your years will not fail"

So Paul proves that the Word who became flesh and then the son of God, who was also crucified is obviously the YAHWEH worshipped by the nation's gathered in the psalm and fulfilling the prophecy
According to Paul and the prophets, the Word is one Being with YAHWEH

Kobojunkie:
Again, you claim the soul = spirit and body... so, where does strength come from? Obviously it cannot be from the spirit because according to you, the spirit component is already a part of the soul referenced in the verse.
I believe this to be a simple English comprehension issue. Please go back, re-read and carefully digest what you said and what I have posted in response so you can understand that throwing in more bolts into the mix is not going to make this go away.

Kobojunkie:
Again, you claim the soul = spirit and body... so, where does strength come from? Obviously it cannot be from the spirit because according to you, the spirit component is already a part of the soul referenced in the verse.
I believe this to be a simple English comprehension issue. Please go back, re-read and carefully digest what you said and what I have posted in response so you can understand that throwing in more bolts into the mix is not going to make this go away.

shadeyinka:
You didnt answer the question: What did Jesus mean by His word in Mt10:28
I said-

1. Can you please explain what you've said in the light of
Matthew 10:28
Do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul . Rather, be afraid of the One who can destroy both soul and body in hell.

It seems you believe that a human soul can be killed by people other than God. Is this true?

Is killing the body the same as killing the soul?

2. With reference to Gen2:7
Was man a dead soul before God breathe into him the breath of life?

Dtruthspeaker:
You demanded 2 things,


I have answered to the effect that That Truth is Seen and Experienced in Nature.

Now you have Raised a Fresh Issue, no, 7 Fresh Issues of David and the Commandment and Uriah's wife and Weakness of flesh and Strict adherence to the Bible and Finally Accusing me of Reading the Bible once a year and Accusing me of talking about what I am not sure of.

From 2 simple issues Straightway to 7 Fresh issues and you expect me to think you are not an insane person?

Men, I bounce!

Kobojunkie:
* You claimed that. The scripture there suggests there is both a strength and a soul component to man.
* You also claimed that the soul consists of the Body and the Spirit of man. And I asked you, rightly by the way, what the strength of man then is, if the soul consists of the body of man as well as his spirit. Obviously, I cannot exist apart from my body and my spirit now, can I?
How can strength come from me when the soul already claims me i.e. my spirit and my body?
Does not change the faultiness of the claim you make here.

Please provide the bible translation abeg so we can move forward some.

Kobojunkie:
Is English a problem for you or something? You already claimed my body as part of my soul, so where does my strength come from, thin air?

Kobojunkie:
Well, let me indulge your assumption for a bit there. If the soul indeed refers to the body and the spirit, then what is the strength referred to in the translation you posted there?

By the way, what Bible translation did you get that from?
It would make sense if we shared the same translation in trying to "duke" this one out, don't you think?

Dtruthspeaker:
as I have seen, I do say, for If there was no Scripture, Would you not know that Good is better than wickedness?

Or do you need any one to tell you that if you do not eat, you shall die?

PastorAIO:
This is part of the problem of reading the bible in the wrong language. I’m genesis what was breathed into Adam was Nephesh, not Ruach. There are so many different words that are translated as soul in the bible.

In New Testament the word translated as soul is Psyche.

Is Psyche nephesh? That is a debate that is yet to be had by those who are experts. If the nephesh goes back to god when a person dies then why does the psyche that Jesus talks about not do so? After all we hear of souls in hell.

Kobojunkie:
I disagree...

So when God commands that we serve Him with all our heart, mind, body and soul, how do you reconcile the fact that the soul, body and heart are listed as separate pieces to the human?