₦airaland Forum

damogul:
How did you arrive at the claim i highlighted? Have you exhausted all attempts to communicate with a bacteria? Have you even made any attempt before? When you make certain claims be very careful. Same way they said man cannot communicate with whales or dolphins but today we are able to do that. So what attempt have you made to communicate with a bacterium to prove that they lack the ability to communicate?

Who said man can not communicate with Whales of Dolphins? Show me thepersonally that said that. A bacteria doesn't have a brain. It is a singke cell organism that is primitive. How can a human being communicate with such an organism. If you say it is possible then let me know how. By the way do you communicate with God?

damogul:
What came first. man or nature? How did nature get here? If you are an advocate for evolution then you can make this assertion but you are not. You believe in Creation but not the religious creation. So how then is man needed as an input to the existence of God?

If you were not there and have not carried out one single personal research or interview of anyone at at any age then you are not an authority to say for a fact that God does not exist or is a man made idea. All you have are claims based on assumptions.

I have already given you a very clear cut work. If you know any God that exist on its own without human input point to it.

damogul:
Have you ever interviewed a bacteria to know this? Scientists seem to disagree with you because a Bacteria is alive and since it was able to influence their idea of evolution and from it man got intelligence and a brain to reason with then a bacterium is intelligent. Have you interviewd a bacterium before to know what it wants and does not want? If you have then show us how you did this which enabled you know what they want and do not want and how it is that they are not interested in the knowledge of the existence of man

A bacteria can not communicate with a human being. Gods are said to communicate with human beings. You on your own have claimed to be communicating with God. I can ask you specific questions about your claim and it will show that you are lying and you are not in communication with any thing m you are only communicating with your imaginations. So do you communicate with God. Yes or no?

damogul:
If you claim you followed the pattern can you show me your thesis and probable interview you had with every single originator of the God idea and how they even started the God idea off the top of their head without any external influence or any self reasoning or experience on their part.

So can you show me how you followed this pattern and how far the pattern went.

I don't need to interview anybody. The existence of various Gods and the fact that men do everything for the Gods alone shows that men created them all. Show me any God that exist on its own without the input of men. Show me that God.

felixomor:
Please first explain to us how you as a human being will show to a bacterium that you exist?

A bacterium is in no way , shape and form interested in the knowledge of the existence of a human being. Humans want to know that Gods exist and Gods as we are told want humans to exist. You are comparing apples to stones here.

PDBonline:
dalaman, you are making those claims again. In logic it's called begging the question: providing what is essentially the conclusion as the premise. You also used hasty generalization You essentially provided more of what is called logical fallacy.
To conclude that Gods are man made idea, you must have interacted with every man that ever claimed to believe in God in the history of humanity and must have proven that all of them had the same story to tell.

I don't need to do that. All I need is to follow the pattern and I have provide it. Show.me a God that people believe in that can be shown to exist in its own independent of man's input. Does your God exist? Show me that it exist on its own without man made stories,theology, doctrines and societal acceptance. If your God exist show that it exist independently without man's input.

damogul:
You said 4000 yrs ago right? In fact i can even say 8000 yrs ago probably other gods existed. How old are you dalaman? 10000 yrs old? Were you there when the alleged God idea was created by man? Can you show us proof?

Historically speaking 4000 years ago the people in Egypt believe in Ra as their supreme God. Their halographs are there for all to see. The Egyptian book of the dead I still there. I don't need to be there to know. God are man made ideas that is why there are different Gods. All created by men. If the white men had not conquered your land and forced your ancestors to worship their own God you would have been somewhere worshipping the verson of God/ Gods of your acestors imagined and created.

PDBonline:
Did you check the title or read the post before commenting? I guess you are in the wrong place.

I have never seen an atheist who considers anything presented as evidence for God so. Meaning that you they already know who God is? There own idea? Maybe. So if you may start by letting us know the God you have searched for and did not find and how you knew that this is what God should look like and this is what he should do or not do.

I was once a christian and I truly searched for the Christian God only to realize that like all other Gods he's just a man made idea.

You can't ask someone to bring up an evidence without knowing what you are looking for. Also before you ask for such evidence, like you demand, do you have any scientific basis by which you know beyond reasonable doubt that if God is real it is most certain that He will be revealed that way?

I was once a christian am when I speak of God in speak about the Christian idea and conception.

[You most have known God to come up with such. Now that you wouldn't listen to the how of those who claim to know God, why bother ask them to produce any evidence?

Just use that standard you require for your own claim. That's what this is about. If you don't have a claim, then this post is not addressed to you.

I am.listening. Jut provide your objective and incontrovertible evidence that your God exist.

PDBonline:
All what I'm asking for is how an atheist who claims God is not real came to that conclusion, logically and scientifically.

Personally I came to the conclusion that no God exist base Gods are man made ideas and conception. No God can be shown to exist on its on independent of man's input and societal acceptance. Men sat down and invented what ever concept of God they imagined based on various reasons. Gods do not exist in reality. Belief in the idea of God is what is real. Men had to write what ever story that comes to their minds about what ever concept of God they imagined. Men had to created the theology and doctrines that will cement and make the God idea they created acceptable to others. Men have to speared the word about what ever concept of God they imagined and explain it to others. Men have to build all the religious temples and convert others to their religion and make them follow what ever God concept they created. Men have to fight for their various Gods. Enforce what ever system of morality they have come to associate with what ever form of God they created.

This is simple, 4000 years Ra was the very powerful God of ancient Egypt. Now nobody believes in that God idea any more and that God is dead, same applies to Zues and the other Greek Gods. Most of the Mayan and South and North American Gods are no more because no one believes in them. Same with most of our traditional African Gods. We don't even know the names of the Gods our ancestors worshiped like 2000 years ago.

4000 years ago the God Allah as we know it today wasn't in existence until Mohammed introduced the God concept and went about conquerin people and making sure they accept that God. 3000 years ago there was no God called Jesus that was worshiped by anybody until the Romans came conquered most parts of the world and introduced that God concept to their subjects.

Once people stop believing in a God that idea dies off.

felixomor:
Sorry.
Its sad to say, but has to be said.

Atheism isnt about evidence.
It has never been.

I can almost for certain declare that no type of evidence (be it video or written) can satisfy you.

Atheism is far from evidence.

When you have any evidence for your beliefs provide it and lets examine it as stated. If you have non then move along. We don't have time to listen to your criesand rants .

I've been seeing many theist here (christians and muslims,) arguing about how their religion and God is true and those that do not accept their religion/ God are either blind, arrogant or foolish. What I have never heard from any of the theist arguing in support of one religion/ God or the other is providing an objective and incontrovertible way through which we will all test and know which religion/ God is true. How do we objectively know which God exists and controls thrle world and which God is false and vice versa? Where is the objective test to prove any of these religious claim? What methodology can be used to test and verify the existence of God that is objective to all? How can other religions/Gods also be shown to be false, what methodology do they need to fail for us to know that they are false? Instead of repeating what you have been coerced and indoctrinated with since childhood mostly, why don't the theist here do something different and show us with objective evidence why their religion/God is true and other religions/Gods are false. The theist making the claim that God exist should provide objective evidence that their Gods exist so that when we come in contact with it we will know for sure that it is their God and not some other phenomenon.

I have been following this case. Some Muslims are dangerous. Why all this nonsense. Christians in majority Islamic countries are endangered species.

KingEbukasBlog:
Deists can't be nihilists because they can have a personal relationship with God -

You've started with your falsehoods again. Many deist just believe in a creator God/Gods that is/are non interventionist. They have no.personal relationship with any God or God's. Thomas Paine is a deist that claims the creator God could even be dead.

KingEbukasBlog:
Sir I strongly believe the book of Ecclesiastes contravenes his meaning of life from a Christian perspective .



Mazaje is only striving to find meaning of life in those aforementioned . He thinks he has or he thinks he will , but he hasn't or he won't.

Mazaje tries to finding meaning in life through

i. gaining wisdom . Ecc 1:13-18
ii. Fight against evil Ecc 6: 1
ii. sex Ecc 2 : 10-11
iv. Good food Ecc 6:1-2 , Ecc 2:24
v. Arts Ecc 2:4
vi. TV Ecc 2:7-8
vii. Parties , Cars , Luxury Ecc 2:8 Ecc 2: 1
viii. And other fascinating things in life Ecc 3:12-15 , Ecc 4:13-16

And the preachers calls them vanity because

1. Man's work is repetitious Ecc 1:9-10

2. Man still remains unsatisfied because all these are in abundance Ecc 1:8

3. Man's works can be easily forgotten Ecc 1: 11

4. There is no end to this , it goes from generation to generation , different men seeking the exact same thing Ecc 1:3-4

5. Man spends his lifetime laboring to survive Ecc 2:22

6. And finally man dies still unsatisfied , still unfulfilled , still desiring more even at the point of death . So what's the point since you are born with nothing , and you still die with nothing . Same way of death even with the common beast Ecc 12 : 7-8 Ecc 3 :18-19

Its all useless without God .

All these are the opinion of the writer of the book. Many people have died as full filed and very satisfied men and women. Many have died without desiring anything. That alone shows that the writer of ecclesiastics is wrong. How does God add meaning to life since even with God man has to go through all these things. You'll come with the after life but that remains an assumption that has no evidence at all to support it. It is just another human invention to make sense of the fact that life is short, difficult and brutal to some people. The after life does not add any meaning to the present life. The here and now matter to us all that is why we all find our death so distressing.

DeepSight:
@ Kingebukasblog & Dalaman,

Please see -

https://www.nairaland.com/441220/mazaje-state-purpose-life

Several points of view on purpose in life were canvassed.

He puts it very succinctly. I hope KingEbukasBlog sees it and learns from his very good points. Thanks for the link.

KingEbukasBlog:
I am not a deist bro . Refuting an atheist argument from different perspectives does not make me any less of a Christian . Its just a way of exposing how specious and tenuous the argument is .

Example The argument from poor design can be refuted from the perspectives of

1. Christianity

2. Theistic evolution

3. Panentheism

4. Deism

Since I can use these perspectives to refute the argument , that means I'm no longer a Christian ? Haba!

But if athiests do same you get irritated and start complaining.

KingEbukasBlog:
In reality , since you deny the existence of God and believe that life has no general purpose or meaning that you are professing ideas in existential nihilism.

I do not believe that life has no general purpose. It is indeed a fact that life has no general and universally accepted purpose. Purpose in life us what ever you chose to make of it. Even among the God believers life has different purposes. The purpose you ascribe to your life isn't the same with that of a muslim,and Ifa worshipper or a Hindu.

As far as you are without God and trying to invent meaning to your life in a universe you consider purposeless and meaningless then you are an existential nihilist , basically .

Again how can the universe be meaningless and purposeless when it has already given us a chance to be alive and survive in it? Religion and God are NOT the only things that give purpose and meaning to life.

KingEbukaNaija:
I think you need to read more on existential nihilism/existentialism which posits that you are the one to derive or invent meaning to your life though the universe is without one since it is an irrational absurd universe . You dig ?

Am not a nihilist so why should I subscribe to anything they posit?

winner01:
It does not matter if they enrich our lives, its not like the universe cares if you love or hate those seemingly sweet things. Those things in themselves are meaningless if death ends it all. The fact that you want life to be meaningful (no matter how little) proves that there is a greater purpose.
No matter how much you try to cling to purpose bro, it does not seem to fit in well with your worldview.

You have failed to show me how loving my family is meaningless because I will die someday. How does life after death add meaning to me loving my wife and kids? You haven't demonstrated that at all. Purpose fits very well with my world view. You haven't shown my how the end of life makes me enjoying this life a meaningless venture.

KingEbukaNaija:
That's existential nihilism or existentialism ( I can't remember which ) . Where one derives purpose and meaning for his life in an absurd chaotic world . You see family , work and other activities as a source of meaning to life but in reality life has no meaning . Isn't it ?

How can life have no meaning when you just outlined things that give people's life meaning?

Just to add I went through his points again . He said life is meaningless because death ends it all. So what? All life must end. Our friends, family, work, activities we engage in like sports, sex, music, religious activities, helping hands we offer to others etc do not last for ever but they enrich our lIves and we derive purpose and meaning from them.

KingEbukaNaija:
You don't get me sir . He means that survival itself is an illusion - it gives the semblance of purpose and meaning .

His own opinion. He hasn't followed it with convincing arguments at all.

damogul:
[/b]

Its always elusive to them. FYI Grizlybear called them stupid for thinking that life had any meaning. I mean he called his fellow atheists stupid. He even sees his fellow atheists as irrational

That's his opinion.

KingEbukaNaija:
To what end ? Procreate for what reason ? For what purpose ? Can't you that see he thinks survival means preventing death for a mean time which would still eventually come . So what's the point ? What's the point of the chains of births and deaths ? Live to survive

As far as you have taken God out of the picture , it gradually becomes nihilism .

I will not engage you in your fallacy. I am only using his.points against him. If evolution has ingrained in his the need to survive then life has been been ingrained with a purpose which is survival. He was asked why hasn't he committed suicide and that was his reply. If that is true then life's purpose is survival which destroys his statement of.life having no purpose.

KingEbukasBlog:
He believes evolution refutes God and that since there is no God (atheism) we have been ingrained by nature through evolution with the need to survive . So to him , survival is an illusion , because its going to end with death at the end of it all . So why bother ? Let's just die off and go extinct , life is meaningless and purposeless .

And you still want me to explain how atheism leads to nihilism The answer is right there staring at you . These are oblique suicidal thoughts if you ask me sir .



How did this elude you bro ?

I will not waste time stating why life needs to be lived and enjoyed. I will only show why his arguments lack.merit. He said evolution has ingrained us with the need to survive and procreate in some other parts of his ramblings . If that is true that that alone defeats his premise that life has no meaning and.purpose since survival and procreating which he says evolution in gains with us are enough reason to live.

KingEbukasBlog:
Look at my posts and what I discuss and compare them with yours . Does it look like we are on the same level I'm miles ahead bro and can switch to so many philosophical propositions , religious perspectives to support my view . While all you do is poison the well .

. You are happyily announcing that you have no position and can dance to any tone. Well done.

KingEbukasBlog:
Read Grizzlybear's threads and see how

https://www.nairaland.com/3498459/think-human-race-needs-stop
https://www.nairaland.com/3479134/meaninglessness-human-existence-immortality-religion

And tell me if anyone who acknowledges the existence of God will have such thoughts

His thread makes no sense base he says we have been ingrained by evolution with the need to survive. That alone destroys his nihilist position.

KingEbukasBlog:
You can't kill God because Its existence is a fact . But you can kill atheism because its an idea

Which of the Gods exist as a fact when there are many different Gods?

KingEbukasBlog:
Atheism is a man made idea and will die out in years to come . You only need knowledge , education and the internet .

God is a man made idea and conception that is why there are many different Gods.

KingEbukasBlog:
Atheism has everything to do with nihilism . Please I dislike dishonesty . You might think I'm trying to make atheism look bad but its the truth .

Even atheists' shiithole atheism.com admitted that

That's his opinion. How did he jump from atheism leads to scientism, materialism and finally to nihilism. I am and atheist and I don't know see any reason to be a nihilist. Pls explain to me how atheism leads to nihilism. I don't want you to beg the question.

KingEbukasBlog:
How does education and internet kill a living immaterial being

Actually facts have revealed that atheism is dying even with the presence of the internet

https://www.nairaland.com/3290599/3-bad-trends-atheists

God is a man made idea and not a living immaterial being.

KingEbukasBlog:
Non Sequitur bro .

All Nihilists are atheists

But atheism has nothing to do with nihilism.