₦airaland Forum

sonmvayina:
Man is made up of two components.. Body and spirit.. The spirit animates the body... The body returns to dust at death and the spirit returns to God who gave it... Ecclessiatics 12 :7 and psalm 104:29-31

The spirit at Ecclesiastes 12:7 represents a life-force, it is impersonal. At death, a person's thoughts perishes, i.e. the person ceases to exist(Ecclesiastes 9:5,6,10)

So speaking about man’s death, Ecclesiastes 12:7 states: “The dust [of his body] returns to the earth, just as it was, and the spirit returns to the true God who gave it.” When the spirit, or life-force, leaves the body, the body dies and returns to where it came from​—the earth.

Remember when God created the first man Adam, He[Jehovah God] “went on to form man out of dust from the ground and to blow into his nostrils the breath of life and the man became a living person”(Genesis 2:7) The breath of life is an abstract term since it has no personality. And notice when Adam and Eve sinned, God said they would “...return to the ground,for out of it [they] were taken. For dust you are and to dust you will return.” (Genesis 3:19)
Did God tell them that they would keep living somewhere else as spirits? Or that they would become spirit beings in heaven? NO
He said “to dust [they] will return” and it would be like they never existed.

So coming back to Ecclesiastes 12:7, the life-force returns to where it came from​—God. (Job 34:14, 15; Psalm 36:9) This does not mean that the life-force actually travels to heaven. Rather, it means that for someone who dies, any hope of future life rests with Jehovah God. His life is in God’s hands, so to speak. Only by God’s power can the spirit, or life-force, be given back so that a person may live again.

Rozz:
There are verses in the bible to prove hell fire exist.Revelation 21:8,Matthew10:28,Matthew 25:46 and many more

Matthew 10:28, like I've earlier stated, the word “hell” in translations of most Bibles today mean something else in the original manuscripts.
The “hell” you're seeing at Matthew 10:28 actually means “Gehenna(Valley of Hinnom)”.

The word “Gehenna” literally means “Valley of Hinnom,” and it referred to a valley that was just outside Jerusalem in Bible times. In Bible times, the city residents used this valley as a garbage dump. So Jesus used that illustration then Gehenna as a symbol of everlasting destruction (Matthew 23:33)

Rozz:
If so,where shall be the devil's Final place,there can't be heaven without hell

The Devil is to be hurled into the lake of fire and sulfur and is to be annihilated (or destroyed) forever. (Revelation 20:10) but Satan is a spirit creature, so the “lake of fire” cannot possibly be a literal place of torment but a symbol for eternal destruction.
What is this “lake of fire and sulfur” you keep hearing about? Revelation 21:8 tells us “...in the lake that burns with fire and sulfur. This means the second death.” that is a death from which there can never be a resurrection. So you've seen that the scriptures do not say the lake of fire is a place of torment.

Rozz:
Cant accept that fact that there's no hellfire,every deeds shall be rewarded good or bad.

You are right when you said a person's deeds shall be rewarded him or her! But the doctrine of hellfire being a place of torment for bad people is nothing but a disguised myth aimed at painting God a cruel being!
In some of the Bible translations today, the word rendered “hell” actually means Sheol/Hades(in English, Grave: a common grave for mankind, the earth the sea etc)
Wicked persons are simply to be destroyed and not put in a place of fiery torment!
Read the following Scriptures:
(Proverbs 2:22, Psalm 104:35, Matthew 25:46, 2Peter 2:9, 3:7, Romans 2:5-7)
Never has the scriptures hinted that wicked and sinful people will suffer in a place of torment forever.
The very idea of burning people in fire disgusts Jehovah God for it was something that had never come into his heart(Jeremiah 7:31, 32:35)

hoopernikao:
This is still sentiments, assumptions and manipulations.

Leave all these and face the scriptures. That is the key here. I have laid it down for you.

All i am writing is not for you alone. It is a public space. I write to avoid you derailing open minded heart searching to know incase you refused to know.

So, present your explanation and bear others at heart. Stop all these manipulative word.

The matter has already been deliberated on but I'll go again.
We've made some points clear.

1. Jesus is the firstborn of all God's creation and it was through Jesus that all other things were created, be it visible or invisible things. (Colossians 1:15,16, Revelation 3:14, John 1:3)

2. Jesus had a prehuman existence as a spirit creature in heaven, thereby making him an angel. (Proverbs 8:22-31, Micah 5:2, John 3:13, 6:38, 8:23, 58) John 8:58 --- Jesus said to them: “Most truly I say to you, before Abraham came into existence, I have been.”

3. Jesus then became a human(John 1:14, 1Timothy 3:16)

4. Michael is referred to as an archangel in the Bible(Jude 9)

5. Daniel 12:1 - “...Michael will stand up, the great prince of who is standing in behalf of your people.”

6. Isaiah 9:6 called Jesus, the “Prince of Peace”

7. At Matthew 13:41, Jesus said he will “...send his angels...” for a particular assignment.

8. 1Thessalonians 4:16 speaks of the time Jesus would return “...because the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a commanding call, with an archangel's voice...” And remember, the Bible only mentioned one archangel, so who else could the voice be referring to? If not Michael[Jesus]?

9. Even at 2Thessalonians 1:7, Jesus is spoken as having “his powerful angels”

10. Now, we read at Revelation 12:7 “...Michael and his angels battled with the dragon”

11. Jesus is the leader of God's army in executing His righteous judgments (Revelation 17:14, 19:13-16)
So since Jesus is the leader of God's army, wouldn't it be fair to say it was Jesus [under the name Michael] who carried out the attack on Satan and his angels and hurled them to the earth? The armies of angels in heaven are all united in one purpose to see God's will prevail and they number a “myriads of myriads” or “thousands of thousands” (Daniel 7:10, Revelation 5:11)
So they definitely must have somebody leading them into battle against opposers of God! Who else other than Jesus [Michael, who led the attack on Satan as we read earlier in Revelation 12:7]
Michael[Jesus]has been standing in behalf of his loyal and organized people on earth, Jehovah's Witnesses.
I'm never tired to defend my beliefs as you wrongly asserted. It's just that when I weigh the possible outcome and see that it is fruitless, I avoid the conversation altogether.

hoopernikao:


It seems you are new here.
There is none of those i copied that we likely hold the same view together or that we have shared views on this topic before, they are here, ask them or go and check our previous interactions. I dont do things for publicity if you dont know that for now. Learn that. I give people room for examining their doctrine and also to challenge my view so that i can be moved to further studies if need be. Dont be afraid.

Firstly, I copied those who are concerned here directly, even the fellow who seems to hold a closer view to what i am saying and have been dealing/challenging you wasnt copied. The other two fellows i copied, i dont even know their views on Jesus divinity or humanity but i have seen them ask intelligent questions, scrutinize doctrine with open minds when it comes to scriptures.
I dont do things in secrets and i engage in proper discussion with fear or sentiments. And for your record one of them is my major critics on this forum.


By the way, why do you have issues with people being copied if your heart is true. You asked for explanation, i have given you, yet all you have been saying are only sentiments that shows you have no evidence or even understanding of what you are saying.

See, i have gone past all those sentiments or emotional robberies. It is lazy to call a fellow who challenged your doctrinal stand as seeking argument. Those are lazy statements to seek emotional support and manipulate readers. For you to contribute to a public post, you should be ready for it to be challenged especially when it is false.

Ask your fellow colleagues, i have heard all these your excuses from them severally and it only comes when they are already found out and have nothing to show again.

I have asked you serious and cogent things concerning the bible, you have no rebuttal and yet you are showing emotional sentiment. Kindly help yourself to avoid posting on public forum again and spend more time to study and know what you believe well and be able to defend it when you are questioned. A bible student is taught to contend earnestly, to study as approved of God. No lazy talk or manipulation. If it is hard for you to own up to your error, then better dont talk and be silent than commit more sins.


Lastly, you cant find pleasure in discussing with someone who seems not to have key understanding of your error yet you shout "dont quote me, you like arguing" to someone who challenged you to scriptures. It simply means you only want to prey on the simplicity and knowledge seeking heart of the former. That is the case of Rozz and some others here. But God will not allow you. They will know how to discern the truth from lies and be established in the truth of God's word without manipulation and deceptions.

In all, there are two weapons of a man whose lies are already found and has no defence again, one is using distractions, the second is using sentiments. I have always seen that many times and have seen it here also, but which ever way, the word of God will prevail and no distraction or sentiment will stop His revelation.

You've already made your stand clear that you don't believe Jesus is the archangel Michael. That's fine. But do not drag me into frivolous arguments because you think I'll have time for that. YOU DO NOT WANT TO LEARN! You're just looking for arguments and that's it. If you truly wanted to learn, then the explanations can go further. Other than that, count me out fam.

hoopernikao:


It seems you are new here.
There is none of those i copied that we likely hold the same view together or that we have shared views on this topic before, they are here, ask them or go and check our previous interactions. I dont do things for publicity if you dont know that for now. Learn that. I give people room for examining their doctrine and also to challenge my view so that i can be moved to further studies if need be. Dont be afraid.

Firstly, I copied those who are concerned here directly, even the fellow who seems to hold a closer view to what i am saying and have been dealing/challenging you wasnt copied. The other two fellows i copied, i dont even know their views on Jesus divinity or humanity but i have seen them ask intelligent questions, scrutinize doctrine with open minds when it comes to scriptures.
I dont do things in secrets and i engage in proper discussion with fear or sentiments. And for your record one of them is my major critics on this forum.


By the way, why do you have issues with people being copied if your heart is true. You asked for explanation, i have given you, yet all you have been saying are only sentiments that shows you have no evidence or even understanding of what you are saying.

See, i have gone past all those sentiments or emotional robberies. It is lazy to call a fellow who challenged your doctrinal stand as seeking argument. Those are lazy statements to seek emotional support and manipulate readers. For you to contribute to a public post, you should be ready for it to be challenged especially when it is false.

Ask your fellow colleagues, i have heard all these your excuses from them severally and it only comes when they are already found out and have nothing to show again.

I have asked you serious and cogent things concerning the bible, you have no rebuttal and yet you are showing emotional sentiment. Kindly help yourself to avoid posting on public forum again and spend more time to study and know what you believe well and be able to defend it when you are questioned. A bible student is taught to contend earnestly, to study as approved of God. No lazy talk or manipulation. If it is hard for you to own up to your error, then better dont talk and be silent than commit more sins.


Lastly, you cant find pleasure in discussing with someone who seems not to have key understanding of your error yet you shout "dont quote me, you like arguing" to someone who challenged you to scriptures. It simply means you only want to prey on the simplicity and knowledge seeking heart of the former. That is the case of Rozz and some others here. But God will not allow you. They will know how to discern the truth from lies and be established in the truth of God's word without manipulation and deceptions.

In all, there are two weapons of a man whose lies are already found and has no defence again, one is using distractions, the second is using sentiments. I have always seen that many times and have seen it here also, but which ever way, the word of God will prevail and no distraction or sentiment will stop His revelation.

Okay so you assume I care what your motives are. Well I don't. I've had enough of you dragging me into what has been thoroughly explained.

hoopernikao:
CORRECTING THE FALSE DOCTRINE OF CALLING JESUS AN ANGEL

CORRECTION 1: BIBLE EXPLICIT DETAILS AVAILABLE TO US DID NOT POINT TO JESUS DIRECTLY OR INDIRECTLY AS ANGEL.

Knowing fully well how God is a detailed being. Going by the scriptures, there are key things that the scriptures and God wouldnt have paraphrased or used lazily. For example, you will see doctrine or Faith, Righteousness, Salvation etc are well explicit and documented in the bible. These were so, so that we can have clarity.

Hence going by context of the scriptures, you cannot see any where to ascertain the doctrine of Jesus is Angel, any where. Those who claimed that have to robbed the scriptures to arrived at it.

See few bible usage of words related to Jesus below.

Jesus was referred to in many names in the scriptures, from savior, Christ, Son of Man, Son of God etc, but we cant see anywhere it included the name of an angel to represent him.

Basic name usage as per Jesus.

SON OF MAN: Used 16 times directly
CHRIST: 569 times
JESUS: 975 times
SON OF GOD: over 50 times
SAVIOR, LORD, PRINCE, MASTER, PASSOVER, REDEMPTION, OFFERING FOR SIN etc: Used over 300 times.
ANGEL: 0 times

Note: No single verse referred him to as angel. Not even indirectly or by error in both his divinity or humanity. NONE.


Usage of MICHAEL and ANGELS in Scriptures

MICHEAL: 5 times
ANGELS: 94 times.

In non of these were they referring to Jesus. NONE.

---

Also see.

USAGE of the phrase "HIS ANGELS"

One of the claim of those advocating Jesus as angel or archangel is a context that placed him in the phrase "JESUS AND HIS ANGELS"

They claim, that means Jesus is an arch angel since he has angels. The deception in this is that such person subtly remove the fact that there are other personalities in the bible that were referred to in such phrase too.

Matt 16:27 For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works.

Rev 12:7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,


The advocate used this two scriptures to draw a point on Jesus has angels, Micheal has angels, then Jesus and Michael are the same. This is a grievous error from such people and it is also and insincere effort.

Note, the same Rev 12:7 said the dragon has his angels. We likewise have scriptures that spoke about God (his angels).

Ps 91:11 For h[/b]e shall give [b]his angels charge over thee, to keep thee in all thy ways.

1 Corinthians 13:1 Likewise, I say unto you, there is joy in the presence of the angels of God over one sinner that repenteth.

Revelation 3:5 But while he thought on these things, behold, the angel of the Lord appeared


In the 3 Scriptures above, we see angels used as possession of God. This means other advocate can also push that since God has angels, and Jesus has angels, then Jesus is God, sadly, this is what the proponent of Jesus is angel dont want to hear.

Such interpretation is just our imagination, it is doctrinally false and erroneous.

We cannot established with the scriptures that Jesus is an angel and he is surely not. Hence it is an error to suggest such as doctrine.

I will give a follow up later on CORRECTION 2 (NO SCRIPTURE ON JESUS' APPEARANCE IN HIS SECOND COMING EVER CALLED HIM ANGEL BUT MOSTLY CALLED SON OF MAN) if required.

@Janosky, Maximus69, DappaD, Acehart, Rozz, MuttleyLaff, Myer, Goshen360

You always keep dragging people in to your matter because you're not sure of it yourself.

hoopernikao:
CORRECTING THE FALSE DOCTRINE OF CALLING JESUS AN ANGEL

CORRECTION 1: BIBLE EXPLICIT DETAILS AVAILABLE TO US DID NOT POINT TO JESUS DIRECTLY OR INDIRECTLY AS ANGEL.

Knowing fully well how God is a detailed being. Going by the scriptures, there are key things that the scriptures and God wouldnt have paraphrased or used lazily. For example, you will see doctrine or Faith, Righteousness, Salvation etc are well explicit and documented in the bible. These were so, so that we can have clarity.

Hence going by context of the scriptures, you cannot see any where to ascertain the doctrine of Jesus is Angel, any where. Those who claimed that have to robbed the scriptures to arrived at it.

See few bible usage of words related to Jesus below.

Jesus was referred to in many names in the scriptures, from savior, Christ, Son of Man, Son of God etc, but we cant see anywhere it included the name of an angel to represent him.

Basic name usage as per Jesus.

SON OF MAN: Used 16 times directly
CHRIST: 569 times
JESUS: 975 times
SON OF GOD: over 50 times
SAVIOR, LORD, PRINCE, MASTER, PASSOVER, REDEMPTION, OFFERING FOR SIN etc: Used over 300 times.
ANGEL: 0 times

Note: No single verse referred him to as angel. Not even indirectly or by error in both his divinity or humanity. NONE.


Usage of MICHAEL and ANGELS in Scriptures

MICHEAL: 5 times
ANGELS: 94 times.

In non of these were they referring to Jesus. NONE.

---

Also see.

USAGE of the phrase "HIS ANGELS"

One of the claim of those advocating Jesus as angel or archangel is a context that placed him in the phrase "JESUS AND HIS ANGELS"

They claim, that means Jesus is an arch angel since he has angels. The deception in this is that such person subtly remove the fact that there are other personalities in the bible that were referred to in such phrase too.

Matt 16:27 For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works.

Rev 12:7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,


The advocate used this two scriptures to draw a point on Jesus has angels, Micheal has angels, then Jesus and Michael are the same. This is a grievous error from such people and it is also and insincere effort.

Note, the same Rev 12:7 said the dragon has his angels. We likewise have scriptures that spoke about God (his angels).

Ps 91:11 For h[/b]e shall give [b]his angels charge over thee, to keep thee in all thy ways.

1 Corinthians 13:1 Likewise, I say unto you, there is joy in the presence of the angels of God over one sinner that repenteth.

Revelation 3:5 But while he thought on these things, behold, the angel of the Lord appeared


In the 3 Scriptures above, we see angels used as possession of God. This means other advocate can also push that since God has angels, and Jesus has angels, then Jesus is God, sadly, this is what the proponent of Jesus is angel dont want to hear.

Such interpretation is just our imagination, it is doctrinally false and erroneous.

We cannot established with the scriptures that Jesus is an angel and he is surely not. Hence it is an error to suggest such as doctrine.

I will give a follow up later on CORRECTION 2 (NO SCRIPTURE ON JESUS' APPEARANCE IN HIS SECOND COMING EVER CALLED HIM ANGEL BUT MOSTLY CALLED SON OF MAN) if required.

@Janosky, Maximus69, DappaD, Acehart, Rozz, MuttleyLaff, Myer, Goshen360

No matter how you put it, what has been said has been said

hoopernikao:
THE ERROR OF CALLING JESUS AN ANGEL

I will be presenting my full explanations in separate but holistic posts. This is to guide against missing any point and avid distractions.

As a beginner, one of the most basic thing a bible student must know and adhere to in bible interpretation is to know that the scriptures even though is a collections of different books, it must be read together and see as a singular information, documentation and God's inspiration to humanity. [/b]The moment you want to start interpreting scriptures in silos or lifting verses out of its context to suit a narrative, you are already prone to error. [b]Any doctrine must have its foundation in the scriptures and must be taught evidently and visibly to establish it as a doctrine.


A doctrine as foundational as who Christ is that you cant put out more than 4-5 scriptures is already on its way to falsehood. Bible interpretation is not child's play that you just say whatever you feel. It must be provable, teachable, practicable and explainable.


Secondly, every books of the bible and its teaching were all drawn from a foundation writing. They werent drawn by sleeping and praying and something just dropped. All writers and writings of the scriptures have their foundation in Moses' writings. The foundation of all scriptures is based and drawn from what Moses wrote. That means, no author is an island on himself, They studied, searched, investigated Moses writing and by the inspiration of God wrote as an extension and progressive revelation. This is the reason we say the scriptures are sufficiently enough to be its own evidence. When you understand this in bible study, you will always take it as a duty to examine where an author is likely drawing its point from.

Note this, THE HOLYGHOST WILL NOT INSPIRE AN AUTHOR TO WRITE AS AGAINST HIS INSPIRATION IN MOSES WRITINGS. Hence, a great responsibility is placed on us to now read properly, investigate, compare scriptures and by the help of the same Holy Spirit, understand the text of the scriptures.

---

Having said this, because of space, i will take my first point.

Firstly. Note that even though i have asked for scriptural evidence to show that JESUS IS AN ANGEL. I have seen none that seems serious. Only one person (DappaD) out of 4 proponents of such here pointed me to scriptures as explanation. Yet, see below what you send.



Taking your scriptural quotes out. I have also highlighted your key points.

1. Jude 9: Yet Michael the archangel, when contending with the devil he disputed about the body of Moses, durst not bring against him a railing accusation, but said, The Lord rebuke thee.

2. Daniel 12:1 And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people:

3. Isaiah 9:6,7 ...his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

4. Revelation 12:7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,

5. 2 Thessalonians 1:7 Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God:

6. Matthew 16:27 come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works.

7. Colossians 1:15 Who is the[b] image of the invisible God[/b], the firstborn of every creature:


Sadly, none of these have Jesus and Michael in same context. Only two have Jesus and Angel(s) in same context (2 Thessalonians 1:7, Matthew 16:27. we will still examine this).

Your point was that, we need to juxtapose the scriptures to come to the meaning. I am sorry, true bible hermeneutics and exegesis doesnt allow such juxtaposing. It will breed error as this. We must be able to trace vividly, by explaining scriptures with scriptures to derive a stand.

Also note, that only one of your scriptures have a meaning of angels in same context with Jesus. That is the word occurring together. The rest are simply out of it.

I will make sure i handle them in my explanations.


I truly hope you are patient enough to read to understand and then raise your concern howbeit, with scriptures.

@Janosky, Maximus69, DappaD, Acehart, Rozz, MuttleyLaff, Myer, Goshen360 (love to invite you two here)

Oh so you agree you were pointed to the scriptures, yet you keep saying “show me where Jesus is Angel”, if you can't accept the above explanations,
My guy you will wait and tire for the scripture that will explicitly tell you that Jesus is the archangel Michael. It can only be explained to you, since it's a sacred secret revealed only to God's people. Jehovah's Witnesses being ardent students of the Bible will take it up against you any day any time that Jesus is archangel Michael.

Maximus69:
Bros FAITH is the assured expectation of things hoped for the evident demonstration of realities even though not beheld! Hebrew 11:1

So let him continue waiting for the Bible quotation that will tell him "Jesus is an angel and Michael was his angelic name"
Meanwhile true followers of Michael (the Prince of Peace) are busy gathering Peace lovers globally.

Paul told us not to bother ourselves over faithless ones like him, because FAITH is NOT a possession of all people! 2Thessalonians 3:2

Abi oo it's better to direct our efforts to honest hearted and deserving persons(Matthew 10:11). Not people who just want to argue! Apostle Paul wrote to Timothy that he should “...reject foolish and ignorant debates, knowing that they produce fights” (2Timothy 2:23)

Even in that same letter , he said that people would not be “open to any agreement” 2Timothy 3:3

So we need not worry ourselves

hoopernikao:
Your call for Jesus as Angel is a greater misinterpretation from no where in the scriptures. I only decided you face other pressing work over the weekend the essence of my slow response and proper scriptural engagement.

I likewise dont even see any reason to do scriptural explanation in debunking your error and misinterpretation as all you gave as scriptural backing are just funny interpretation. I havent seen any serious explanation and i am sure i cant see as there exist none in the Bible.

Until you folks start putting your head down and start examining the foundation of your doctrine, you will only be finding yourself in such tight corner as this.

I will surely present to you my position on this issue and clear all those roll on scriptures you robbed together. But before then, I still await a scriptures that points you to Jesus as Angel.

Okay, so I'm going to have to ignore you at this point. Don't quote me again.

@Rozz, if you feel your question hasn't been answered, you could follow these links to some articles published by Jehovah's Witnesses and see for yourself if the trinity doctrine is found in the Bible

https://www.jw.org/en/bible-teachings/questions/is-jesus-almighty/

https://www.jw.org/en/library/books/bible-teach/father-son-holy-spirit-trinity/

https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/1993766

The whole trinity doctrine stems from a mistranslation of John 1:1 in several Bibles today, just read up the articles one by one and as you do that you'll come to see that Jehovah God is one God (Deuteronomy 6:4) and Jesus is his Son(John 11:27). And that it is vital you know the distinction between God and Jesus (John 17:3)

hoopernikao:
What scriptures have you given that Jesus is Angel Michael in the bible. What scripture please.

Don't make it look like that subject matter hasn't been thoroughly explained before with the scriptures! Please if you're just joining this thread, this topic has already been explained with scriptural references to it. Check pages 27/28 and read through. The explanations there are all drawn from the Bible.
After you do that, please don't come back here and tell me “explain where Jesus is Angel” I'd be mad with you.

achorladey:
DappaD: In Jesus' time, the Pharisees believed in the law of Moses but that didn't make them rightly disposed for everlasting life.

Achorladey: Perhaps you don't know the difference between BOOK KNOWLEDGE and actually KNOWING something. The PHARISEES know book KNOWLEDGE and added their TRADITIONS to it. But do they BELIEVE what they KNOW? Jesus said they TALK but they don't DO. So how can we say they BELIEVE what they KNOW. They kept SEARCHING the SCRIPTURES every now and then yet the REAL thing was BEFORE THEM yet they don't BELIEVE. Says so much about the book KNOWLEDGE of the PHARISEES


DappaD: The Samaritan woman who met Jesus once knew the signs that would indicate who the Messiah was but that didn't make her at the time rightly disposed for everlasting life.

Achorladey: So when did she became ONE DISPOSED to everlasting LIFE? Jesus set up another discussion with her apart from the initial one abi?

DappaD: Likewise today, that people know God exists and Jesus came to the earth is not enough for them to gain everlasting life. Read John 17:3 please, it reads “This means everlasting life, their coming to know you[footnote: their taking in knowledge of you], the only true God[Jehovah], and the one whom you sent, Jesus Christ.”

Achorladey: The above looks CONTRADICTORY. You said it's not ENOUGH in one place the BIBLE said OTHERWISE. Perhaps expansiate.

DappaD: That Bible verse shows the clear distinction between God and his son, Jesus.

Achorladey: Interesting

DappaD: You think people believing that God is a trinity will gain everlasting life? When that isn't the accurate knowledge?

Achorladey: You think people believing and PUTTING FAITH IN A VISIBLE ORGANIZATION will gain EVERLASTING LIFE? When that isn't accurate knowledge?

DappaD: Show me another organization in the world that readily makes use of God's personal name, Jehovah? (Psalm 83:18)

Achorladey: I will show more ORGANIZATION in the world that READILY MAKE USE of the name of a PERSON who the scripture said COMES in the FATHER'S NAME and the name of the FATHER is within HIM? In fact the father said WE SHOULD all BOW and OPENLY acknowledged that name. How about that?

You shout JEHOVAH, I shout JESUS, what difference does it make?

DappaD: Romans 10:13 reads, “Everyone who calls on the name of Jehovah will be saved” you think organizations denying or hiding God's name as Jehovah will come any closer to gaining everlasting life?

Achorladey: Everyone who call on the NAME of JESUS will be SAVED. That they don't call on the name of JEHOVAH don't mean they will not be SAVED. Acts 4:12 Furthermore, there is no SALVATION in ANYONE ELSE for there is no other name under HEAVEN that has been GIVEN AMONG men by which we MUST get SAVED.

Don't you think Peter should be STONED to death for BLASPHEMY when he KNEW we can equally call on JEHOVAH and be SAVED and yet he went ahead to say no SALVATION in ANYONE ELSE


DappaD: Again, since you are making distinctions, show me another organization in this world that believes only God's Kingdom can solve all of mankind's problems(Daniel 2:44).

Achorladey: I can only laugh, in your HEART of HEART when you asked the householder you preach to, do they BELIEVE that God's kingdom is coming to SOLVE our problems? What did they tell YOU?

DappaD: While the religions of the world prostitute with the world leaders, run for political offices and keep alliances with the nations, thinking they can bring peace and security and prosperity to the world, will you one day see any Jehovah's Witness partaking in such nonsense?(Isaiah 2:4)

Achorladey: I will only say DIRECTLY or INDIRECTLY the ORGANIZATION you are a member of work for these governments in supporting the PEACE, SECURITY and PROSPERITY attained so far. COVID-19 is a TESTAMENT to that. Take that to the BANK you go cash out. At least your organization get CHARITY aids from these GOVERNMENTS.


DappaD: We, as true Christians know it is only God's Kingdom who can put an end to all of the suffering, bad governments and stubborn people who refuse to acknowledge Jehovah and his Son Jesus Christ in the world today. (Isaiah 65:17, 66:22; Matthew 6:9,10; Romans 2:8; 2Peter 3:7,13; 2Thessalonians 1:7-10; Revelation 21:3,4)

Achorladey: Every other person believe God's kingdom will come and that they GOOD numerous things to EASE SUFFERING, make life better, manageable and comfortable don't mean they lost hope in God's Kingdom Oga DappaD. When they BOW to the SON they acknowledged the FATHER LIKEWISE

We are done with you, keep wallowing in your ignorance. DO NOT QUOTE ME AGAIN.

Maximus69:
You don't know him!

His beef here is you should not maintain that only one Organization belongs to Jehovah, to him all those over 41,000 different religions claiming Christians even the Muslims are all worshipers of Jehovah as long as they're all praying to God. So no matter how they call God or worship God only want them to be good from human standpoint that's all!

They are the type of people Jesus described at Matthew 7:22,23
People in such religions believe it doesn't matter how you worship God. They have this “all way na way” mentality, meanwhile Matthew 7:13,14 tells us otherwise.

Even apostle Paul when witnessing to the Greeks told them that God had overlooked times of ignorance(Acts 17:30) so these church people cannot keep saying all channels lead to God, because then it would only lead to their destruction in the end.

achorladey:
Mr Maximus69 says they have abandoned the name CHRISTIAN because CHRISTENDOM has BASTARDIZED it. The reason they adopt JW as the new name with DIVINE INSPIRATION.

What baffles me is since he agreed that the name has been BASTARDIZED why do the leaders of the ORGANIZATION still use CHRISTIAN congregation of Jehovah's witnesses?

You literally have no argument here. If you're an apostate, Jehovah still wants you to become part of his flock. Our prayers are with you.

achorladey:
When I brought a material out from the same website you SHOUT APOSTASY! Now you are sending me BACK to the same website as it seem your SHOUT of APOSTASY will not come to an END.

Then,

How do you ADMONISH apostates when you are not allowed to talk to THEM or in another word SHUN them or as the ORGANIZATION use to call them MENTALLY DISEASED?

I give scriptural basis for all I say, but you and your followers here prefer to speak from your own hearts without providing any scriptural back up. That's too bad.

achorladey:
Apostates because I showed you some content of what the magazines the ORGANIZATION you are a member produced week in week out.

Should I ask you how is APOSTASY related to the post I made so far now your tune will change.

Oga if you have nothing better to do, stay one place and stop quoting my messages again!

achorladey:
Oga I have read it EXTENSIVELY and here is WHAT I found which I will still ask you one more TIME. Do TRINITARIANS accept the BELOW as captured in the material you asked me to READ? Do the TRINITARIANS accept those words in bold form?


Do the words “in the name of Jesus every knee should bend” mean that we are to pray to him? No. The Greek phrase here involved “denotes the name upon which those that bow the knee unite, on which united all (πᾶν γόνυ) worship. The name which Jesus has received moves all to united adoration .” (A Grammar of the Idiom of the New Testament, by G. B. Winer) Indeed, for a prayer to be acceptable, it must be presented “in the name of Jesus,” but it is, nevertheless, addressed to Jehovah God and serves to his glorification. For this reason, Paul says: “In everything by prayer and supplication along with thanksgiving let your petitions be made known to God.”​—Philippians 4:6

In Jesus' time, the Pharisees believed in the law of Moses but that didn't make them rightly disposed for everlasting life. The Samaritan woman who met Jesus once knew the signs that would indicate who the Messiah was but that didn't make her at the time rightly disposed for everlasting life. Likewise today, that people know God exists and Jesus came to the earth is not enough for them to gain everlasting life. Read John 17:3 please, it reads “This means everlasting life, their coming to know you[footnote: their taking in knowledge of you], the only true God[Jehovah], and the one whom you sent, Jesus Christ.” That Bible verse shows the clear distinction between God and his son, Jesus. You think people believing that God is a trinity will gain everlasting life? When that isn't the accurate knowledge?

Show me another organization in the world that readily makes use of God's personal name, Jehovah? (Psalm 83:18)
Romans 10:13 reads, “Everyone who calls on the name of Jehovah will be saved” you think organizations denying or hiding God's name as Jehovah will come any closer to gaining everlasting life?

Again, since you are making distinctions, show me another organization in this world that believes only God's Kingdom can solve all of mankind's problems(Daniel 2:44). While the religions of the world prostitute with the world leaders, run for political offices and keep alliances with the nations, thinking they can bring peace and security and prosperity to the world, will you one day see any Jehovah's Witness partaking in such nonsense?(Isaiah 2:4) We, as true Christians know it is only God's Kingdom who can put an end to all of the suffering, bad governments and stubborn people who refuse to acknowledge Jehovah and his Son Jesus Christ in the world today. (Isaiah 65:17, 66:22; Matthew 6:9,10; Romans 2:8; 2Peter 3:7,13; 2Thessalonians 1:7-10; Revelation 21:3,4)

achorladey:
Do you BELIEVE TRINITARIANS agree with the BELOW? as captured in captured in a Watchtower in the image shown BELOW.

The apostle Paul said that “in the name of Jesus every knee should bend.” (Philippians 2:10) This is not just a token thing. Jesus warned that many would claim to do mighty works in his “name,” but he would not recognize them. (Matthew 7:21-23) Truly to ‘bend the knee’ in Jesus’ name means recognizing his position and fully submitting oneself to his authority. Today, it means being subject to him as King, sharing in the work of declaring the good news of the Kingdom and staying neutral in the affairs of earthly kingdoms.​—Matthew 24:14.


The apostle Peter declared: “There is not another name under heaven that has been given among men by which we must get saved.” (Acts 4:12) Previously, Peter had said to a lame man: “In the name of Jesus Christ the Nazarene, walk!” And the man walked. (Acts 3:6) Jesus told his followers that they should pray ‘in his name.’ (John 14:14) When we use Jesus’ name in our prayers, we are not reciting a mere formula. Rather, we are petitioning that the high power and authority of Jesus Christ be used on our behalf.

By showing appropriate honor and respect for Jesus’ “name”​—his high position or authority—​we come to be among those of whom it is said: “Every tongue should openly acknowledge that Jesus Christ is Lord to the glory of God the Father.”​—Philippians 2:11.

Now since you visit jw.org often, I admonish you to follow this link and read the article extensively.
https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/1994923

achorladey:
Do you BELIEVE TRINITARIANS agree with the BELOW? as captured in captured in a Watchtower in the image shown BELOW.

The apostle Paul said that “in the name of Jesus every knee should bend.” (Philippians 2:10) This is not just a token thing. Jesus warned that many would claim to do mighty works in his “name,” but he would not recognize them. (Matthew 7:21-23) Truly to ‘bend the knee’ in Jesus’ name means recognizing his position and fully submitting oneself to his authority. Today, it means being subject to him as King, sharing in the work of declaring the good news of the Kingdom and staying neutral in the affairs of earthly kingdoms.​—Matthew 24:14.


The apostle Peter declared: “There is not another name under heaven that has been given among men by which we must get saved.” (Acts 4:12) Previously, Peter had said to a lame man: “In the name of Jesus Christ the Nazarene, walk!” And the man walked. (Acts 3:6) Jesus told his followers that they should pray ‘in his name.’ (John 14:14) When we use Jesus’ name in our prayers, we are not reciting a mere formula. Rather, we are petitioning that the high power and authority of Jesus Christ be used on our behalf.

By showing appropriate honor and respect for Jesus’ “name”​—his high position or authority—​we come to be among those of whom it is said: “Every tongue should openly acknowledge that Jesus Christ is Lord to the glory of God the Father.”​—Philippians 2:11.

I'm beginning to believe you are cunning apostate. That's too bad really.

achorladey:
Do you BELIEVE TRINITARIANS agree with the BELOW? as captured in captured in a Watchtower in the image shown BELOW.

The apostle Paul said that “in the name of Jesus every knee should bend.” (Philippians 2:10) This is not just a token thing. Jesus warned that many would claim to do mighty works in his “name,” but he would not recognize them. (Matthew 7:21-23) Truly to ‘bend the knee’ in Jesus’ name means recognizing his position and fully submitting oneself to his authority. Today, it means being subject to him as King, sharing in the work of declaring the good news of the Kingdom and staying neutral in the affairs of earthly kingdoms.​—Matthew 24:14.


The apostle Peter declared: “There is not another name under heaven that has been given among men by which we must get saved.” (Acts 4:12) Previously, Peter had said to a lame man: “In the name of Jesus Christ the Nazarene, walk!” And the man walked. (Acts 3:6) Jesus told his followers that they should pray ‘in his name.’ (John 14:14) When we use Jesus’ name in our prayers, we are not reciting a mere formula. Rather, we are petitioning that the high power and authority of Jesus Christ be used on our behalf.

By showing appropriate honor and respect for Jesus’ “name”​—his high position or authority—​we come to be among those of whom it is said: “Every tongue should openly acknowledge that Jesus Christ is Lord to the glory of God the Father.”​—Philippians 2:11.

I don't see how this goes against what I said earlier. Despite Jesus being the “mediator” between God and men, he should never become an object to worship.

achorladey:
Oga you have forgotten that their is JESUS CHRIST someplace somewhere in that 3 in 1 that they follow and hold in HIGH ESTEEM and you agree they CALL on his name same WAY you do.

Their master will give them their DUE PROMISE don't wonder about. Just as you get yours from your master, they will get THEIRS.

Correction, Jehovah's Witnesses worship only Jehovah the true God, and not Jesus Christ. (Deuteronomy 6:4, John 17:3, Luke 4:8 )


Trinitarians who claim to be Christians worship their own 3-in-1 God, they even worship Jesus Christ too because that's their own teaching that's not found in the Bible.

achorladey:
Oga you have forgotten that their is JESUS CHRIST someplace somewhere in that 3 in 1 that they follow and hold in HIGH ESTEEM and you agree they CALL on his name same WAY you do.

Their master will give them their DUE PROMISE don't wonder about. Just as you get yours from your master, they will get THEIRS.

Let them continue. In the end we will know who are truly God's people.

Maximus69:
Your bitterness against the fine works of God's holy spirit means nothing to those seeking the TRUTH, you're here to argue whether Jehovah's Witnesses got the identity of Jesus correctly or not.
The same Jesus said those who are with him will be identified by the LOVE JOY and PEACE permeating their gathering, everyone globally can see that happening in the midst of JWs yet you're still bent on arguing that they never got the identity of the Prince of Peace.
Haba, why not try make your TRINITY God perform the needed task instead of arguing bitterly, profusely and blindly like this?

We wonder what their supposed 3-in-1 God has promised them as his followers.

hoopernikao:
I have told you to always be detailed in your expressions. So, why cant you give me specification of the transformer Sir.

You have chosen not to accept the evidence presented to you from the Bible and still want to keep up with your former thinking.
ALL the evidence have been laid before you, yet you refuse. As Witnesses and true Christians, we follow Jesus' admonition where he told us to shake the “dust off [our] feet” when our teaching is not received. Matthew 10:14,15 and Luke 9:5
Jehovah's Witnesses are looking for deserving ones(Matthew 10:11) and not haughty/stubborn people.

hoopernikao:

Even from the Apostles and their followers in early days of the church as your colleague said. I guess it was hidden from them

It was revealed to JW only sadly errorneous modern day revelation not God's revelation.

Daniel 12:4 says “in the end...the true knowledge would become abundant.”
We find ourselves in the time of the end, and the truth about the Bible has been made known already through Jehovah assisting his faithful Witnesses.

Maximus69:
Arguing BLINDLY is their hobby, but presenting proofs is what will silence them.

Pharisee were battle ready to continue arguing with Jesus and his followers, but when Jesus present proof of what he's saying, they couldn't refute his teachings. They wanted to challenge Jesus' followers but after seeing the evidence they were left dumbfounded.
Jehovah's Witnesses are saying this Jesus is the same angel Michael, just because of this Michael has supported this group and made them the one and only group having LOVE JOY and PEACE permeating their midst!
Hen ask him to provide evidence that they know the identity of Jesus nah?
It's not about arguments anymore, our generation is the most blessed of all, HOW?
When all other generations only had God's promises backed up with miracles to help faithful servants of God put faith in the promises they can't see it's fulfilment in sight, we are seeing the RECORDS of how God made those promises and not only that, we are eyewitnesses of it's fulfilments!
Our generation is seeing Paradise gradually taking shape as people from all nations that has been divided by geographical locations, racial prejudice and political unrest are coming together to form one big and happy family of peace loving worshipers!
All that is left now is for Jesus to come and wipe out those who will not allow Paradise to work for us with their stubbornness and rebellious attitudes.

Please instead of wasting precious time on arguments just ask him for the fine works of his TRINITY God, period! James 2:18-26

We keep 2Peter 3:7, 13 in the mind as we await that day!

hoopernikao:
[sup][/sup]

Bro, you aren't presenting any truth. You see, it is on Nairaland you will see someone claim to do what he will deliberately not do.

Your premises are wrong, perfectly wrong as I have stated to you. It will be a far more serious trouble and struggle to prove that lies of Jesus is an Angel. You will only be navigating scriptures to your own lust. It doesnt exist.

It is an absolute lack of knowledge of the scriptures or deliberately manipulation of the same to come up with what you are proving.

It has no basis in Christianity. So even though the facts of the scriptures cannot be changed, you have or your proponents have tried in several doctrine to change the true narration. But the reality will always dawn, that truth is a defence of itself. The scriptures is too.

I'd like to correct you, it has no basis on Christendom. The truth or “accurate knowledge” of the Bible has been hidden from those who do not do the will of Jehovah. And that's that

hoopernikao:
Please what is the word used for principalities there and what meaning dies it carry in Greek. Government? . Spiritual government abi? So what in the government does Arche refers to.

Even if the Bible is raked and answers are given to you with the scriptures, you still wouldn't accept as you have proved yourself headstrong.
2Timothy 4:3 has already informed true Christians about your kind of people.
I cannot change your mentality about anything but I can only present the truth as it is in the Bible. You are an adult(that is if you are sef) and can decide for yourself what is right for you. Nevertheless whatever you say cannot change or diminish the true facts from the Bible.
With all these said, peace.

hoopernikao:
You haven't still read my post well. It is well explained. Ephesians 3:10 speaks about heavenly beings. The chiefs of them. Arche is where arch is derived from, check your lexicon. Rulers, chiefs, first, beginning. They carried same bases.

Now you've falsely asserted that the “governments” and “authorities” mentioned at Ephesians 3:10 refers to archangels. Wow bro. That wouldn't make much sense now, would it?