Matheusmartin:
In all, those that were not born are the luckiest,why those that died immediately they were born are the second luckiest..

Isn’t it astonishing how Ecclesiastes 4:3 in the Bible shares a similar thought?

killALIEN:

I think they mean human will become angels in heaven. And thats Godlike of course.
Remember God said he created man in his likeness.

Oh don’t worry. Janosky knows who I’m referring to.

Janosky:

Colossians 1:19, it pleases the Father to grant his son divine/ godlike nature.
John 17:7 his Father gave it to his son.
Humans will partake of divine/godlike nature in heaven too.
Can't you see your logic faulty?.

Just mention 2Peter 1:4 and watch him crawl into a cave.

MaxInDHouse:

Whenever they're deceiving themselves i just laugh at them!
Billions are out there envying JW couples, even many of them complaining that JWs only marry within themselves would do anything just to hook up with a JW in order to secure a happy home.
So let them continue chewing their own bread.
Aláàárù tó ń jẹ búrẹ́dì, awọ orí ẹ̀ lo ńjẹ tí ò mọ̀!

Very true. Reminds me of a sister who once related that during her job interview, the woman asking her questions wanted her to marry her son on hearing that she was a Witness.
So many other similar experiences are out there.

MaxInDHouse:
No wahala,they will resolve their own problem.
Thank you!

Funny enough, nobody can actually confirm whatever the man is saying right now. Talk is cheap and it is easy to cook up stories these days. How can we expect someone who dislikes Witnesses to ever say anything good about them?

So his story cannot be confirmed whereas people around him and beyond will always comment: “Jehovah’s Witnesses love themselves too much, they always come through for their members.” This one can be confirmed anywhere anyday.

The man exposed himself the moment he said an overseer in the congregation shared information with him who is a non-Witness. So he claimed he spoke with an elder and he said they won’t take care of their brother? C’mon we know that’s a lie because appointed brothers mustn’t disclose matters relating to publishers to outsiders. Proverbs 11:13


It could be that they’re seeing the brother and sister being well-taken care of, but nothing is reaching his side so he felt that the Witnesses must come and provide his daily bread for him simply because his brother is a Witness.

MightySparrow:

No wonder, when I asked your elders what they were doing about the family of my blood brother, sorry your member on the brink of collapse. I was surprised to hear from him, that your organisation does not care about home of members.

The highlighted is incorrect jare. As long as your blood brother is a baptized member in the congregation and is in serious need, he himself will be taken care of. Galatians 6:10, 1John 3:17
If he is a family man, then further consideration will also be given.
When Witnesses organize their disaster relief for their brothers, it is almost always the case that non-Witness relatives benefit from it.

In my own church we have women conferences where matured people teach younger ones how to handle challenges in marriage. And, this is done in the Church Auditorium. Wisdom is profitable to direct.
Titus 2: 3 - 5; ECC. 10:10

If that’s the case, why do the Witnesses have higher success rates when it comes to happy marriages that stand the test of time? Because the counsel given about marriage comes straight from the Scriptures. Genesis 2:24, Proverbs 5:18, Ecclesiastes 9:9, Malachi 2:14-16, Ephesians 5:33
And not human philosophies where the pastor at the pulpit says one or two fleeting words without ever referring to the Scriptures.

I guess you would have come across our publication “The Secret of Family Happiness” that used to reign in the early 2000’s. A lot of persons including your pastors have benefitted a whole lot from that book. Take your time and go through it again if you had done so before.

Kenneth10110:
what God has written or chosen no amount of money or whatever can change it

What did God write? Was it God’s intention for people to die in the first place?

Hismasterpiece:
I have a question for you Jehovah's witnesses and i would like you to answer me honestly, please.

You believe The Bible says that we humans are purely flesh and blood, and not spirits who are housed in bodies.

Genesis 2:7, 6:3

So how do you interpret this portion of scripture -
Mat 17:1 Now after six days Jesus took Peter, James, and John his brother, led them up on a high mountain by themselves;
Mat 17:2 and He was transfigured before them. His face shone like the sun, and His clothes became as white as the light.
Mat 17:3 And behold, Moses and Elijah appeared to them, talking with Him.
Mat 17:4 Then Peter answered and said to Jesus, "Lord, it is good for us to be here; if You wish, let us make here three tabernacles: one for You, one for Moses, and one for Elijah."
The text appears to indicate that Moses and Elijah who had died and were buried centuries before the coming of Jesus in the flesh appeared to Jesus and conversed with Him and the disciples were able to recognize them. If all dead saints and sinners are just asleep in their graves till the day of the resurrection (which is also the same day Jesus returns) as Jehovah's witnesses believe (or if sinners cease to exist when they die, as KoboJunkie believes), then what is the correct interpretation of this text?
This account is also recorded in Mark 9:2-6 and Luke 9:28-33.

Jesus told Peter, James and John not to relate what they saw to anyone because it was a vision. Matthew 17:9
A vision can contain personalities that are not present. For example, certain prophets like Isaiah and Daniel wrote that they saw God on his throne. Isaiah 6:1, Daniel 7:9
Yet the Bible still maintains that nobody has seen God at any time. John 1:18, 6:46
How could that be? Because they didn’t really see God but a visual representation of him.

So while Jesus was the only one present in that transfiguration, the other two were not present because they had been dead for centuries. In fact, the writer Luke relates that Peter didn’t know what he was saying when he asked to set up those tents for Moses and Elijah(Luke 9:33) because the normal Jewish view of the dead was that they were unconscious and had no share with what was going on under the sun. Psalm 146:4, Ecclesiastes 9:5-10

Also, the portion of scripture that gives the account of how a medium that King Saul went to see summoned the spirit of the prophet Samuel below by performing a seance -
1Sa 28:7 Then Saul said to his servants, "Find me a woman who is a medium, that I may go to her and inquire of her." And his servants said to him, "In fact, there is a woman who is a medium at En Dor."
1Sa 28:8 So Saul disguised himself and put on other clothes, and he went, and two men with him; and they came to the woman by night. And he said, "Please conduct a seance for me, and bring up for me the one I shall name to you."
1Sa 28:9 Then the woman said to him, "Look, you know what Saul has done, how he has cut off the mediums and the spiritists from the land. Why then do you lay a snare for my life, to cause me to die?"
1Sa 28:10 And Saul swore to her by the LORD, saying, "As the LORD lives, no punishment shall come upon you for this thing."
1Sa 28:11 Then the woman said, "Whom shall I bring up for you?" And he said, "Bring up Samuel for me."
1Sa 28:12 When the woman saw Samuel, she cried out with a loud voice. And the woman spoke to Saul, saying, "Why have you deceived me? For you are Saul!"
1Sa 28:13 And the king said to her, "Do not be afraid. What did you see?" And the woman said to Saul, "I saw a spirit ascending out of the earth."
1Sa 28:14 So he said to her, "What is his form?" And she said, "An old man is coming up, and he is covered with a mantle." And Saul perceived that it was Samuel, and he stooped with his face to the ground and bowed down.
1Sa 28:15 Now Samuel said to Saul, "Why have you disturbed me by bringing me up?" And Saul answered, "I am deeply distressed; for the Philistines make war against me, and God has departed from me and does not answer me anymore, neither by prophets nor by dreams. Therefore I have called you, that you may reveal to me what I should do."
For me it is a confirmation of the doctrine that we humans are triune beings comprising of a spirit, soul and physical body as revealed to us in
1 Thessalonians 5:23 and also in other passages of scripture like James 2:26 and Eccle 12:7 among others.
Now according to KoboJunkie, all sinners are purely flesh and blood, but believers are the ones who get to be born of the spirit, and therefore become spirit beings but prior to believing were simply born of the flesh, and therefore were nothing more than flesh and blood.
And according to Jehovah's witnesses all humans are purely flesh and blood and when saints and sinners die they remain asleep in their graves till when Jesus returns. After which they will be resurrected. Saints will be given eternal life here on earth, while sinners will be annihilated or wipes out of existence. Therefore, the witnesses don't believe in a literal heaven for saints or hell for sinners.
But this text from 1 samuel clearly states - And the woman said to Saul, "I saw a spirit ascending out of the earth.". So nobody can say that she summoned a being made of flesh and blood, but rather, a spirit, thus confirming the doctrine that we humans are triune beings (spirits who have souls and live in bodies) which automatically confirms the doctrine that when a person's spirit departs from their body they go to their eternal home as revealed in Luke 16:19-31, 2 Corinthians 5:1-8, Heb 9:27, among others.
Because a person's spirit cannot just be roaming about the earth after it leaves the body (which isn't scriptural).
Anyways, MaxInDHouse, Janosky, Bishopkingsley, Emusan, KNOWMORE56, freshboi88, DappaD, KoboJunkie, Barristter07, let me have your opinions on this please.
And please no insults, as the Bible speaks against such.
Gracias.

Do you know that Saul committed a very grievous sin worthy of death by going to consult a spirit medium?
Deuteronomy 18:10-12
“There should not be found in you anyone who makes his son or his daughter pass through the fire, anyone who employs divination, anyone practicing magic, anyone who looks for omens, a sorcerer, anyone binding others with a spell, anyone who consults a spirit medium or a fortune-teller, or anyone who inquires of the dead. For whoever does these things is detestable to Jehovah, and on account of these detestable practices Jehovah your God is driving them away from before you.”

Why do you think God would ever say such a thing? I mean one can reason that a person’s dead loved one wouldn’t do any harm so why would God prohibit talking to one’s loved one?

Because the person inquiring of the dead will surely see someone but that person is not his relative! Satan keeps masquerading as an angel of light and he has many tricks and machinations he uses to keep people under his net. 2Corinthians 2:11, 11:14

Satan knows the condition of the dead so in order for people to question what God says about it, he now deceives people into thinking that the dead are still alive somewhere, thereby leaving people at crossroads of which one to believe. That’s one of the reasons why God quickly hid the body of Moses after his death(Deuteronomy 34:6) else Satan would use the body of Moses as a snare for the Israelites. Jude 9


Moreover if Samuel was still alive somewhere, why would God later say in the time of Jeremiah that if Samuel were standing before him, he would save only himself? Jeremiah 15:1
Does that not suggest that at the point
of his death, Samuel no longer exists anywhere and he is still lying in his grave awaiting a resurrection? Isaiah 26:19, John 5:28

The explanation MaxInDHouse gave was concise and backed with Scripture. What’s left for you is to either accept or reject it. Let me drop my two cents anyway.

MightySparrow:

Most of what you discuss or make as JW cardinal belief are not too welcome. Who gave the name Apostles to Peter and others?

Mark 3:14(New Living Translation)
“Then he[Jesus] appointed twelve of them and called them his apostles. They were to accompany him, and he would send them out to preach,”
There were not to answer it as titles anyway(Matthew 23:8-12) but that was their responsibility to take the lead amongst God’s people. Acts 6:2

The nomenclature: Apostles, Prophets, Evangelist, prophets etc are given by Jesus? Today you have President. Others have primates, archbishos, GS, GO, etc.

Oh please don’t miscontrue what Max said. There is no president of Jehovah’s Witnesses anywhere. Jesus is the head of the Christian congregation. Ephesians 5:23
The legal entity(Watchtower) representing Jehovah’s Witnesses has a president and its charter to fulfill the requirements for the law(Philippians 1:7c), that’s why none of the GB are in that position.

During the time of Jesus, how many women went for house -to - house teaching? Now, JWs do that. Your indoctrination is wrong Sir!
Many things the apostles did were done as needs arose, the making of Deacons which today we have archdeacon in some churches.
The inability for JWs to teach you to remove chaff from wheat is what baffles me.
So the ministry of Aquila and Priscilla, acceptable to apostles, is not to JW?
Delusion!

Luke 8:1-3
“Shortly afterward he[Jesus] traveled from city to city and from village to village, preaching and declaring the good news of the Kingdom of God. And the Twelve were with him, as were certain women who had been cured of wicked spirits and sicknesses: Mary who was called Magʹda·lene, from whom seven demons had come out;  Jo·anʹna the wife of Chuʹza, Herod’s man in charge; Su·sanʹna; and many other women, who were ministering to them from their belongings”

What do you think the women were doing with him if not assisting and receiving training to be sent out amongst the 70 later on? Luke 10:1

You totally missed the point of what Max was saying. Sure, women are to be preachers and teachers of the good news to unbelievers(Psalm 68:11) and to set good examples(Titus 2:3) this includes Priscilla the wife to Aquila. Because the commission Jesus gave to his disciples were for both male and female. Matthew 28:19,20

But when it comes to the congregation(amongst fellow believers), women are NOT supposed to teach in the presence of baptized males. 1Timothy 2:12

So calm down and learn from Jehovah’s Witnesses, there’s a lot people are missing out on when they stubbornly reject our message. It could be that one day, you can also come, taste and see that Jehovah is good. Psalm 34:8

MaxInDHouse:


You will not accept my contribution because i depends on the Interpretation of the GB so i'll advise you to go and ask Papa!

Please brother remember the Watchtower we considered this past weekend about how people’s circumstances can change.

MaxInDHouse:
So Sanwó Olú and Osinbajo are the ones to do what?
Well birds of the same feather flock together, political religionists share the same ideology with worldly Politicians! John 15:19

I once saw a DL member on Nairaland wailing why Kumuyi has been mixing their religion with ‘worldly’ people i.e. pastors of other churches and politicians.

So false religion can put up a pretense for a while but when the dust clears, it will still remain false religion. Revelation 17:5, 18:2-4

okefranci:
THE Deeper Christian Life Ministry has completed a biography on the founder and General Superintendent of the church, Pastor William Kumuyi.
The book titled, ‘Kumuyi, Defender of the Faith,’ will be unveiled on Friday, September 17, 2021 by the Vice President of Nigeria, Prof. Yemi Osinbajo, and the Governor of Lagos State, Mr Babajide Sanwo-Olu, at the Eko Hotels and Suites, Lagos.
The forward was written by the General Overseer of the Redeemed Christian Church of God, Worldwide, Pastor Enoch Adeboye.
The Chairman of the Book Editorial Board, Pastor Philip Oluwi, stated these on Monday during a press briefing at the DCLM headquarters, Gbagada, Lagos.
Oluwi stated that the book, which was written by media experts and a professor at the University of Lagos, was published in the United Kingdom by Elite Academy Publishers, adding that hundreds of thousands of copies had been produced.

The church leader said before now, no full length book had been written on Kumuyi because of the cleric’s ‘strict policy’ of not projecting himself or his private life above the gospel of Jesus Christ.

He added that the need to globalise evangelistic outreaches compelled Kumuyi to start employing the media space more actively.
Oluwi said in October 2020, some of the church elders decided to produce the biography to honour the octogenarian and further the gospel under him, adding that the project started by November.
“The project was not without its apprehension and challenges though. This was because having worked with him for more than four decades, some of us were, at first, apprehensive about his reaction to a project that will attract the attention of the world and the media to his personality rather on his saviour, the Lord Jesus Christ, and the ministry of world evangelisation for which he was irrevocably committed to relentlessly pursuing, than any other consideration.
“Yet, to the team, it was clear that we were embarking on a project of faith, nay, a project of risk. But because we were convinced that it was a noble and legacy project that must be done, we pressed on doggedly, without first seeking the initial approval of the general superintendent. We were eventually extremely relieved when he gave his nod to the project,” he added.

So what changed? Isn’t this new policy making it obvious by now that he has occupied the seat of Christ and exalted himself above his God? Matthew 23:1-7, 2Thessalonians 2:4

Janosky:

MPD is a mental health issue.
The guy has multiple monikers on this forum.
I'm not surprised.

I’m usually keen on noticing when someone does that. I already know this Bishopkingsley is the same person as Betscoresodd and Kingsnairaland but now I’ve seen that he’s the same as Nancy2020. Some people don’t know when to stop!

MaxInDHouse:

They love deceit like die. But those brainwashing them knows how to play along with their stupidity, so even when they can see their leaders pointing accusing fingers at each other, they'll shamelessly call it UNITY IN DIVERSITY!

Yet those men are both adherents of Trinity and they drink tea and bread with their god everyday.
Just look at Bishopkingsley and Nancy2020 arguing over this Mary matter on page 84.
https://www.nairaland.com/6633634/just-like-god-satan-also/83#104142977
So they are always learning and learning but never able to come to an accurate knowledge of the truth. 2Timothy 3:7

From what I saw on that thread, I’m even thinking Bishopkingsley is the same as Nancy2020. I wonder how this escaped my notice. It was bad enough for someone to compliment himself with two monikers, but the one disturbing me now is how someone can be arguing with himself with two different monikers.

Bishopkingsley:

Now to honor those Saint is not wrong
But to worship them is wrong

So try and correlate the bolded with what you said below.

Bishopkingsley:

Catholic got the trinity doctrine correct too the part they fail is on idolizing dead Saint

To the best of my knowledge, Nancy2020 is a Catholic so try and explain to her why calling and elevating Mary to a “Mediatrix” is wrong before coming to meet Witnesses who will silence you with God’s Word as we have been doing.

Bishopkingsley:

Exactly
John 14:6 ►
Jesus answered, “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father Jehovah except through me Jesus
New Living Translation
Jesus told him, “I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one can come to the Father except through me.

Even Sango and Amadioha worshippers can call out to the name of Jesus and claim they are for God, so what makes you different from them since you have no works to show? Luke 6:46, John 15:8

DappaD:

The other day I quietly observed a thread where that self-acclaimed Bishop and Nancy were conversing. Nancy asked him what his thoughts were on idolizing Mary since she’s a Catholic, and then the bishop didn’t want to be straightforward in his answer so he used style dodged the question with long talks. Later, in another thread, he claimed that Catholics were wrong in idolizing dead saints(Mary) in the absence of Nancy

So you didn’t have the boldness to tell Nancy2020 that idolizing Mary was wrong but did it behind her back?

Nancy2020:
funny DappaD/MaxInDHouse Jesus said no one can come to Jehovah except through me so how are you going to get to Jehovah when you refuse Jesus.
It is like they don't teach you people this basic truth.
Ok I won't call you cult but just look at how you act it is strange.
Tell me how you will get or pray to Jehovah when you reject Jesus.
Or are you going to say JW is the Jesus lol.

WHAT DOES IT MEAN TO ACCEPT JESUS?

DappaD:


How do you accept Jesus without obeying Jesus’ commandments then? John 14:15

Are Jehovah’s Witnesses OBEYING the commandments of Jesus?

1. To love Jehovah their God with their whole heart, whole soul and whole strength? Matthew 22:37

2. To preach and teach about God’s Kingdom(Matthew 10:11-13, 24:14) just like he(Jesus) did? Luke 4:43

3. To love their brothers and sisters more than their own physical family(Matthew 12:46-50) to the point that outsiders will confess that they love themselves too much? John 13:34-35

4. To be no part of the world by remaining neutral in the face of political and social issues(John 17:14-16) and instead advocate solely for God’s Kingdom? Daniel 2:44, Matthew 6:10, John 18:36

5. To treat all of God’s inspired Word as truth and not neglect any part of it? John 17:17

6. To refrain from using carnal weapons to resolve issues and refusing to participate in war? Matthew 26:52, Isaiah 2:2-4

7. To maintain a fine conduct before the eyes of many to the point that some will say “Jehovah’s Witnesses are the best set of Christians!” ? Matthew 5:13-16

The same person lambasting MaxInDHouse the other time that he called you names. Pity how you resorted to name-calling seeing that you had no other tricks up your sleeve.
Don’t worry you can continue labelling us cultists, zombies, demons, brainwashed whatever whatever, I’ll accept it with my full chest but will never sink to your level.
As my Master and Lord would have it, wisdom is vindicated by its works. Matthew 11:19
So Nancy/Bishopkingsley try and be patient ehn, in the end all eyes will see those who really belong to the true God and his Son. 2Timothy 2:19

Nancy2020:
Bishopkingsley did not teach me how to call you people cult my friend that left JW told me the organization is run like cult.
Now saying am Bishopkingsley is out of reach but am not surprised if you can call Jesus Michael you can call me any thing.
Let me show you what JW do in the Bible almost the same thing you do today the difference is you do it to Jesus words in the Bible not to those who follow Jesus look at it below +++
58 And cast him out of the city, and stoned him: and the (Jehovah) witnesses laid down their clothes at a young man's feet, whose name was Saul.
59 And they stoned Stephen, calling upon God, and saying, Lord Jesus, receive my spirit.++++
This is what JW do to Jesus members back then this men are JW like (Saul) Paul they kill those who follow Jesus
Now you kill Jesus words because you can't kill his followers because people will notice how evil the organization is that why you want to kill Jesus words so that no one will notice how evil JW is.
Continue to refuse to accept Jesus as your lord God and Savior.

Why do I feel deep down in my gut that you are the same person as Bishopkingsley. The same style of writing, the same thinking, the same everything. Nothing surprises me on Nairaland anymore.
P.S. The “cult” label you people have been using for us has become stale. Please find something else to call us. Matthew 5:10-12

Nancy2020:
you and who agree how can I agree with someone who join a cult.
Or how can I agree with some one who won't listen to Bible.
Do you think in your heart that God will not provide sinners prayer In the Bible.
Devil wants you to remain in sin.
That why he block your mind from saying the prayer so you can join him in hell.
When the Bible say in your eyes.
The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach; 9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.++++++
You ran away from the main place because you did not know how to twist it like you twist other scriptures.
The prodigal son what he said to his father is also sinners prayer.
But pride won't let you to confess Jesus because devil told you people that Jesus is not God Almighty the Savior.
Lol. Without you people JW refusal of Jesus here I would not have known that your beliefs are deadly.
No wonder God said he will show us things to come.

freshboi88:

Going by this logic, then Jehovah God is a creation too....
Hide your head in shame

Nope. It cannot apply to both of them because of one of them didn’t have a beginning(Psalm 93:2) while the other clearly did(Colossians 1:15, Revelation 3:14) that’s why I used the example of those kings bowing down to Solomon to buttress my point. I’m sure you would soooooo love to remove Colossians 1:15 from the Bible but sorry about that anyway, the fact that Jesus is part of God’s creation remains unchanged.

Yes ma’am. At least we’ve come to an agreement that the Scriptures do not support the Sinner’s Prayer. Alright, so have a good night and rest well!

Nancy2020:
I never said Hebrew Scriptures are outdated I said new testaments is stronger than the old testament it is written in the Bible Bible said new testaments is on a better promise and sealed with Jesus blood so if you see something like any day is acceptable to worship God in new testaments it is stronger than worship only Saturday in Old testament understand the difference.
Let me continue the main aim now you think every Christian is a born again no.
You say
since Jesus was addressing [b] Christians[/b
No matter who you are until you say this things you are not yet born again.
Now let leave revelation verse since you are using that as an excuse.
Now say this once to be able to be born again.
Let me see the excuse you will use on this place.
Romans 10:9
If you declare with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.
If you openly declare that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.
John 14:17
17 even the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it neither sees him nor knows him. You know him, for he dwells with you and will be in you.
Romans 10:10
For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you profess your faith and are saved
King James Bible
For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
Now say this
If you declare with your mouth.
Declare those verse above then as it says in
John 14:17 and Romans ten nine
With your mouth.
Speak them all the verse that is the prayer for accepting Jesus.
Romans 10:9
The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach; 9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

Exactly! So you get what it sounds like when you use skewed reasoning to explain what that Scripture says. It’s just someone saying, “All humans in the world will bow down to President Biden”, does that suddenly mean the president isn’t a human himself?

Also I don’t believe you get to set the rules on how a Scripture should be understood since you’re not John who wrote it and what you’re trying to infer doesn’t fit in with the rest of the Scriptures. Colossians 1:15, Revelation 3:14
Remember the whole essence of this debate is to disprove Trinity. So if we apply the logic like you said, then those Christians who would sit on thrones with God(Revelation 3:21) would also have the same status with God(2Peter 1:4) abi no be so? Once we agree that such becomes the case, then the riddle has been solved.

freshboi88:

See summersaulted logic.
Wetin we no go hear. I like u sha...atleast nah only u dey make attempt to answer.
But the problem with that Solomon logic is that :The logic has to apply to both the one sitting on the throne and the lamb.....
Hahahaha....if u use this logic..
Then the one sitting on the throne is a creation too . I don laugh tire my belle wan tear
This one don cast bring another one Rev 5 13-14
Every creature in heaven, earth, sea, under the earth worship, praise, honor, glorify Jehovah and Jesus.
1. Why is Jesus no part of every creature
2. Why is he on the side of the creator receiving same honor, glory, praise, worship that Jehovah receives.
Your duty to tell us why your NWT is contradicting itself. Cos I ma quoting your own scripture

Nancy, I’m not saying that we can’t learn anything from the instructions Jesus gave to those seven congregrations in Asia. Those letters are part and parcel of God’s inspired Word so they are beneficial for all of us. 2Timothy 3:16

All I’m saying is that the doctrine of the Sinner’s Prayer cannot be drawn out from that Scripture, since Jesus was addressing Christians not die-hard sinners.

Nancy2020:
don't worry since you only want to remove the word of God and place it to a specific church when God says all the instructions in the Bible are for us to edify us and to build us up.
When you see God tell Israel thou shall not kill it not only for Israel it for every one.
When Jesus said do not defraud it not for only Israel it for everyone.
Why don't you tell me that do not defraud is only for those that Jesus spoke to when he was in Israel why don't you tell me the ten commandment is only for Israel.
But it not to late let me ask you the ten commandment is it for Isreal or for everyone.

I thought you said the Hebrew Scriptures are outdated and not needed, so why the highlighted? So you finally agree Genesis to Malachi is important for all servants for God? Romans 15:4
I’m glad you have come to that realization at least.

BassReeves:
Too bad you do sarcasm really very poorly
In spite of the exposé' posted scripture and other bible references, you still are incapable of drawing out the reality of trinity from Scriptures because you're imaginatively bankrupt and totally dependant on force feeding

I don’t support here being made into a den of arguments. The OP has serious questions regarding his beliefs and none of the people who carry Trinity on their heads have come to quench his thirst.
So let the Trinitarians present their own, and then the ones who believe in just one God(Deuteronomy 6:4) would present theirs so that OP will come to his own conclusions on which teaching is more viable and supported by Scripture.

The seed has been planted

Wow, great! Now let’s see what becomes of it then.

Yes you definitely exposed it. **winks sarcastically**
Too bad the theory behind your supposed exposé could not be drawn from Scriptures. And that’s what confusing the OP so rather than help, you’re messing things up the more.

BassReeves:
I exposed the weakness and hollowness of haddeylium's point(s), then after went further than where haddeylium would venture into

freshboi88:

Hahahaha......Thank God our interpretation of col 1:15 doesn't say that Jesus is created.
It's your organisation that teaches that col 1:15 means that Jesus is created.
So your organisation, your doctrine , your Bible is all in wrestle mania with itself
Pointing to col 1:15 doesn't do u any justice...it only give u more reason to answer my questions.
If u say Col 1:15 means Jesus is created. Then y is it contradicting Rev 5 13-14
Lemme quote it again so that u can read it slowly
Rev 5 13-14
Every creature in heaven, earth, sea, under the earth worship, praise, honor, glorify Jehovah and Jesus.
1. Why is Jesus no part of every creature ?
2. Why is he on the side of the creator receiving same honor, glory, praise, worship that Jehovah receives.
Your duty to tell us why your NWT is contradicting itself. Cos I ma quoting your own scripture

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For your information, the bolded words below is exactly the same with what you’re trying to infer from Revelation 5:13.

DappaD:

Hmm. You asked a question which was answered and you’re still ranting?
Listen kid, you’re not the Author and Finisher of my faith so you can’t dictate how I’m going to answer questions.
See why I said the questions you ask are always non sequitur . Go and look up the meaning of that word.
You’re hinging on Revelation 5:13 which says that all creatures would bow down to the Lamb means that he is not also a creation? So when the all kings of the nations came to bow down to Solomon, did that imply that he is not a king himself? Psalm 72:11
It’s just a pity that your reasoning is flawed and you have no one to tell you.

But you already proved haddeylium’s point.

BassReeves:
He who asks a question(s) is confused for five minutes, while he who does not ask a question(s) remains confused forever.
If you know, you know that there isnt anything mysterious about trinity. It only turns to be a mystery if you dont know.

You see the H₂O states diagram, I can tell you at what temperature and moment in time a H₂O molecule becomes fluid, liquid or water, and what temperature and moment in time H₂O becomes, gas, vapour or steam water or even when H₂O also what temperature and moment in time it becomes solid ice block. Each stage and/or transformation of the H₂O molecule change in states, are distinct from each other, but you never can take it from each of them, that they each aren't H₂O.
Now using the changing state of a H₂O molecule, I can tell you:
1. At what moment in time did God become Father
2. At what moment in time did the Word, God become Jesus Christ, Son of God
3. At what moment in time were we in the Bible introduced to the Holy Spirit
Unlike the three changing state of a H₂O molecule, the 'Eggwhite, yolk and shell' sic, has only two states, and so inadequate to make clear trinity to someone with
Confusion, is a word we often embrace for an order which is not yet understood and so an order such as, trinity, becomes confusing for many because they dont understand it
Genesis 1:1-5
'1In the beginning God (i.e. Elohim) created (i.e. by forming from nothing) the heavens and the earth.
2The earth was formless and void or a waste and emptiness, and darkness was upon the face of the deep (i.e. primeval ocean that covered the unformed earth) The Spirit of God was moving (hovering, brooding) over the face of the waters.
3And God said, “Let there be light”; and there was light.
4God saw that the light was good (i.e. pleasing, useful) and He affirmed and sustained it; and God separated the light (i.e. distinguishing it) from the darkness.
5And God called the light day, and the darkness He called night. And there was evening and there was morning, one day'
John 1:15
'1In the beginning [before all time] was the Word (i.e. Jesus Christ), and the Word was with God, and the Word was God Himself.
2He was [continually existing] in the beginning [co-eternally] with God.
3All things were made and came into existence through Him; and without Him not even one thing was made that has come into being.
4In Him was life [and the power to bestow life], and the life was the Light of men.
5The Light shines on in the darkness, and the darkness did not understand it or overpower it or appropriate it or absorb it [and is unreceptive to it]
10He (Christ) was in the world, and though the world was made through Him, the world did not recognize Him.
11He came to that which was His own [that which belonged to Him--His world, His creation, His possession], and those who were His own [people--the Jewish nation] did not receive and welcome Him.'
It is because we live in a three dimensional world on earth, that the Godhead, in this our terrestrial ecosystem is expressed in three, namely God the Father, the Word Jesus Christ Son of God and the Holy Spirit
It is in Genesis 1: 2 above that we see the Spirit of God doing a preliminary surveying of earth before actual creation work that was done by the triune God began, so the bible does supports the idea of trinity, but it doesnt stop and park at trinity's doorstep, as God goes beyond trinity. God is infinite and/or infinity. So trinity is a means to an end, it is not the end of what the Godhead is

Nancy2020:
you running up and down
All the church Jesus address are meant to teach us a lesson
Because we are the present church alive we are same like those people.
Just say those verse all of them then you will be saved stop running up and down.
Jesus described heart as house when he cast out a devil before from one person have you forgotten.
Or should I remind you the place.

Please let’s not go off track! Our topic is about the Sinners Prayer so the people whom Jesus was addressing, were they already Christians or sinners from the world?

Nancy2020:
you running up and down
All the church Jesus address are meant to teach us a lesson
Because we are the present church alive we are same like those people.
Just say those verse all of them then you will be saved stop running up and down

So I said the letters to the congregations were not to teach us lessons? When did I say that? If you tried using Revelation 3:20 as a basis for the Sinners Prayer then I’m sorry because:

1. The people making up the Laodecian congregation were already Christians not sinners.

2. The Scripture NEVER mentioned that Jesus told them to pray to him to let him into their heart, because he was speaking to them as a group/congregation and he requested they allow him into their midst. Matthew 18:20

freshboi88:

You are arguing with yourself and your Bible (the new world translation). What we want is answers from u
Rev 5 13-14
Every creature in heaven, earth, sea, under the earth worship, praise, honor, glorify Jehovah and Jesus.
1. Why is Jesus no part of every creature
2. Why is he on the side of the creator receiving same honor, glory, praise, worship that Jehovah receives.
Your duty to tell us why your NWT is contradicting itself. Cos I ma quoting your own scripture

freshboi88:

NWT..........
Rev 5:13 And I heard every creature in heaven and on earth and underneath the earth+ and on the sea, and all the things in them, saying: “To the One sitting on the throne+ and to the Lamb+ be the blessing and the honor+ and the glory and the might forever and ever.”+ 14 The four living creatures were saying: “Amen!” and the elders fell down and worshipped.
If it was answered pls tell us the answer.
1. Why is Jesus not part of every creature.
2. Why is Jesus on the side of the creator receiving the same glory, honor, power, might, praise, worship and blessing given to Jehovah ?
Pls be defend your faith, tell us why ?

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DappaD:

1. What do you mean by this statement? “Is he not supposed to be part of every creature as u guys teach” ?
Has Colossians 1:15 not be sufficient enough for this already?
Jesus being called the firstborn of all creation. is straightforward. It means he is also part of creation. Whereas Jehovah is the only One without a beginning. Psalm 93:2

When God told the Israelites to sanctify the firstborn of the all living things (Numbers 18:15) which included their sons, are we saying that the firstborns of the Israelites are not Israelites themselves? So if Colossians 1:15 calls Jesus the firstborn of every creation, doesn’t it mean that Jesus is also a creation himself?


2. OK then you’ll have to explain to us why God told the Israelites that they would receive praise and honor and glory as they stood out from the nations around them. Deuteronomy 26:19
Does it mean that they now held status of God too since they would receive glory and honor?

Nancy, Jesus was addressing the congregation of Laodecia that in order to solve their issue of lukewarmness, they were to allow Jesus in their midst(Matthew 18:20) since he was he head of the congregration. Ephesians 1:22

Nancy2020:
The verses below
from which the “ask Jesus into your heart” concept is usually taken is Revelation 3:20, “Here I am! I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears my voice and opens the door, I will come in and eat with that person, and they with me.”
Romans 10:9
If you declare with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.
John 14:17
If you openly declare that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.
John 14:17
17 even the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it neither sees him nor knows him. You know him, for he dwells with you and will be in you.
Romans 10:10
For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you profess your faith and are saved
King James Bible
For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
Now say this
If you declare with your mouth.
Declare those verse above then as it says in
John 14:17 and Romans ten nine
With your mouth.
Speak them all the verse that is the prayer for accepting Jesus.
Romans 10:9
The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach; 9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

haddeylium:


If you mean Living.christ
I remember oo
Doubt if he has recovered from it

That one is like a wanderer who is carried by every wind of teaching.