Janosky:
Matthew 19:9 Jesus Christ says Divorce your spouse on the ground of infidelity.

1 Corinthians 7:11,15 separation & divorce is ALLOWED.

Amos 3:3,can two walk together unless they have agreed?

I heard the Church made a rule that divorce was only allowed on the grounds of death. So even Jesus’ words at that Matthew 19:9 isn’t adhered to.

One post I read even said and I paraphrase, that the woman died as a result of God’s will and yada yada.

So how is the Church not to be blamed when separation isn’t allowed on grounds of physical abuse ?

The soul is tangible while the mind isn’t.

Human beings do not have souls but are souls (breathing creatures dependent on sustenance) That’s what Genesis 2:7 reveals about the makeup of man. The mind however refers to the thinking faculty in humans, so they are not the same thing.

FullBlastLight:
“House-to-house visits don start” – Nigerians react as Jehovah’s Witnesses open Kingdom Halls two years after COVID-19 lockdown.
Jehovah’s Witnesses have opened their places of worship, known as Kingdom Halls, two years after they were shut worldwide due to the COVID-19 pandemic.
The group’s spokesperson in Nigeria, Olusegun Eroyemi, in a video announcement noted that its public activities were suspended to prevent the spread of COVID-19 among members and their friends.
In his words: “ We didn’t want to be associated with spreading COVID. We didn’t want it to be said that someone contracted COVID because he attended a function organised by Jehovah’s witnesses. That was why we had to wait until what we thought was a good time to go and this time, we think, is the right time.
“ These are difficult but not hopeless times. Attending one of these special events will provide the needed courage to look to the future with confidence in God’s promises.”
While the Kingdom Halls were shut, members of the religious group held their services virtually.
Aas the worshipping centers are now open, reports confirmed that all activities, including their famous house-to–house visits will begin.
A socila media user on Facebook reacted saying : “Finally, people go come knock for my door."
Someone said, "Finally we will see people tucked in with bags and umbrella moving around on Saturdays."
Here's what another said, "Finally, we will have access to AWAKE and other magazines.”
What do you say too?
https://referencedailynews.com/?p=38915&amp

The people in the last picture aren’t JWs.

ignis:

I mean the coming of Christ... Revelation Chapter 9 - 12 is Revelation of things to happen.

Revelation 12:9-12 is clear when it says that Satan was hurled down to the earth, and that he has a short period of time. This has already happened because we can see how the vast majority of humans today are displaying the traits of the Devil. So it’s clear that wickedness is abound because Revelation 12:9 says that Satan is misleading/deceiving the entire inhabited earth.

The next action to be taken against Satan (who is currently on earth wreaking havoc) involves him and his angels being abyssed for a 1,000 years. Revelation 20:2

Jehovah’s Witnesses have only resumed in-person meetings at the Kingdom Hall. The door-to-door preaching is still suspended until further notice.

ignis:


Thank you very much for this information. However the verse you quoted is Revelation revealed to John about what is going to happen after the trumpet is blown.

Which trumpet was blown in Revelation 12 ?

chatinent:
Lol.

This one doesn't know whether or not to lie that God told him sth again.

Not as if God tells them anything tho!

Lol. God never invite am to the regular tea party.

There are “Christians” today who would make claims that they fast, for reasons known to them.

In the Bible, fasting was a feature of the Israelites worship of God (Leviticus 16:29) and if done hypocritically, God wouldn’t pay attention. Isaiah 58:1-5

That’s why Jesus said when someone is fasting, he shouldn’t let others know by keeping his face in a certain way. Matthew 6:16-18

But the interesting thing about this is that fasting was a feature of the Mosaic Law and so under Christianity, Jesus’ followers had no reason to fast.

In fact, when Jesus was questioned as to why his disciples didn’t fast, he implicitly said that he didn’t come to reform the old Judaism religion and its practices. Matthew 9:17-18

What this means is that, under the law of the Christ (Galatians 6:2), we are set free from the commandments and practices of the Mosaic Law. Colossians 2:13-16

In summary, true Christians do not generally fast. But if done however, it is a private matter that no other person needs to know about. Romans 14:2-6

valuka:
From childhood, I have been hearing how God is omnipotent and omnipresent. He also knows the future, He knows what we are thinking and what we will do in the next minute. That He know us even before we were conceived. Now my question is, "Do God know whether I will go to hell or heaven?"
If He already knew that I will go to hell (even before I was conceived), then why did He allow me to come into this world and rot in hell laterIf you argue that He gave us the power to choose, then as an everseeing God, He must have known what my choice will be.Why then did He create me knowing that I will make the choice of hell?If you argue that He doesn't know, then does it mean that He no longer know the future?...Thoughts in my head with no answers yet.Your opinions are welcomed.

I’ll have you know that predestination is just a farce—it’s not a Biblical teaching. The concept of God being omniscient i.e. knowing everything in the sense of it is also not Biblical. People just know how to misinterpret scriptures to make it seem that way.

True, there have been instances in the Bible where God foretold how certain humans would turn out e.g. Noah, Samson, Jeremiah etc. BUT those are just outliers. They do not make it a rule as to mean that God has a special plan for every single human being.

All human beings are endowed with the gift of free will, to choose their life course. Deuteronomy 30:19,20; Joshua 24:15
If God knew the outcome of every human being, then of what use is free will ? Since we’re all programmed like robots ?

Moreover, in the past when God used the prophet Ezekiel to tell the Israelites to repent, He said that the wicked had a choice to change their ways. Ezekiel 33:11-15
If they were programmed to do bad and be destroyed, why would God tell Ezekiel to go and preach to them ?

In lieu of that, there’s also a preaching and teaching program established by Jesus that is being carried out by Jesus’ followers through out the earth. Matthew 24:14
Do you think Jesus would have instructed his followers to preach if everybody had their fate decided for them already ? That would pointless if you ask me.

I’ll be glad to expatiate more on any of my points that don’t seem clear. Feel free to get back to me.

Steep:

Not the same with Revelation 3 vv 14,
The word arche gives room for many meanings which include source, ruler, first part of creation etc
Strong's Concordance
arché: beginning, origin
Original Word: ἀρχή, ῆς, ἡ
Part of Speech: Noun, Feminine
Transliteration: arché
Phonetic Spelling: (ar-khay')
Definition: beginning, origin
Usage: (a) rule (kingly or magisterial), (b) plur: in a quasi-personal sense, almost: rulers, magistrates, (c) beginning.
I will say all three definition of arche, which are
1. Source
2. Ruler
3. First part of creation
are all true, how?
1.John 1 vv3 state that all things were created through christ making him the source
2 He is the ruler of God's creation as the son of God
3 is the first part of God's creation, because the plan of christ becoming the wisdom of God was conceived before the heavens and earth were created.
1 Peter 1:20 Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you,
1 Corinthians 1:24 But unto them which are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God, and the wisdom of God.

I’m glad you decided to go the way of the Greek etymology. Well, the Greek word ἀρχή (arche) only correlates with the statement in highlight. Christ is not the source of creation. You know why ? Because the Bible never says so. Instead check out what 1Corinthians 8:6 has to say about this. Then distinguish between who is the source of creation is, and who the agency/link through which creation came to be. They’re not the same thing.

1Corinthians 8:6 NIV
“yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom all things came and for whom we live; and there is but one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things came and through whom we live.”

What do you understand by this scripture with respect to what I said earlier ? Especially concerning the words ‘from’ and ‘through’ ?

Proverbs 8:22 The LORD possessed me in the beginning of his way, before his works of old.

Wow. This scripture even buttresses the point I was making. So you agree that Jesus was created by another “LORD” in Proverbs 8:22 ?

Steep:

The statement means Jesus is both the originator and ruler of God's creation.

Okay so let’s correlate your surmise with this statement at Genesis 49:3
“Reuʹben, you are my firstborn, my vigor and the beginning of my procreative power, the excellence of dignity and the excellence of strength.”

You’re saying that Reuben was the “originator and ruler” of Jacob’s power/strength or can we agree that he was the firstborn of all of Jacob’s children ?

Steep:
yeap being a firstborn in some instances is not about age but it is really about choice, this is where Jehovah witness miss it, they think Jesus being called first born means he was first created.

“...The beginning of God’s creation”—Revelation 3:14 RSV
The statement above was made about Jesus. What do you think about that ?

OkCornel:


@dappaD, cornelboy is not OkCornel.

Cheers

Okay. Understood.

A rotten tree cannot produce fine fruit. Matthew 7:16-18
It might initially put up a facade but in the end, what is hidden will come to light Mark 4:22

What do you mean by ‘firstborn’ ?
Firstborn in what context ?

Is there some angle you’re trying to get at with this question ?

cornelboy:
I beg you in the name of God don't comment on my post again pls I'm not kidding. I mean it.

I didn’t join this thread on time because I’ve been very busy lately and so no time for Nairaland. I read through and saw this comment. I want to commend you first of all for taking your time out to create this thread to make a public declaration of your faith. Romans 10:14

Although you’re not yet a JW, you seem to be working towards it. But one thing you should know is that it is a public thread and so many opinions would be shared on here. You can pick the comments to reply to and ignore the rest. Because as long as you’ve sided with the truth, opposition will come from all angles. Satan and his henchmen will try to dissuade any one who has interest in truth(Revelation 12:17). Just keep on making the truth you’re own. You won’t regret it.

P.S. Are you the same person as OkCornel ?

Maxwell0771p:
A member of the church narrated to YeyeNews.com how the pastor told his stunned congregation ... that the passages in the Holy Bible are allegories that requires a modern approach of interpretation if the church is to fit in the rest of the world’s progressive culture.

“Pastor Yuppie has always told some of us privately that he doesn’t believe most of the passages in the Bible ... He believes Christians should embrace modern and progressive culture instead of choosing to live by the dictates of an outdated book.

First and foremost, the Bible doesn’t need to be updated—the information and practical advice contained in the Scriptures is timeless. Psalm 111:7-8, Isaiah 40:8

But of course, you’ll see those who think otherwise but still want to be regarded as Christians. And make no mistake, this one was just vocal about it. There are many churchgoers out there who hold similar views, especially when it comes to sex and marriage.

What even shocks me the most is that even after the members of that church have heard all these nonsense spewed from their leaders, they’d still prefer to stick by them because they are not Christ’s lost sheep who are willing to worship God in spirit and truth. John 4:23-24

Ssoil:
tbh Our country is really blessed we don’t experience natural disasters like this. Since I was born I have never heard about tornado or tsunami happening in Nigeria. We are blessed by God honestly. Our natural disaster is our bad government, Boko haram, unknown men gun, bandits, buhari, sheik gumi, lai Mohammed, pantami and co

So the others are cursed by God then ?

Quick question. Is the celebration of Christmas scriptural ?

LiberatedGirl:
It's extremely sad I have come in contact with two Christians who go to Church regularly yet have Zero faith in Jesus Christ. Both claim they have faith in Christ but it's more of HOPE in Jesus Christ. Hope is thinking Christ will Help you in your time if trouble , while Faith is Knowing Christ will help you. Hope is not as strong as Faith. It's like getting unto a road to get to a place you never been before . You can only hope you are on the right road. Faith is more sure. You know where your house is you know the street that leads to your house.
The Bible says " Faith Cometh by hearing and hearing by the Word of God ". Sadly most Christians read the Bible like a newspaper and not an instruction manual. A major problem Christians have is picking portions of the Bible they like and not reading other portions , what that does is create a very shallow knowledge base. When the tests and trials come because those people knew little and did little they get swept away by the tide.
Take Jehovah's Witnesses who do not believe in miracles, they will say miracles was for Christ's Era and miracles have stopped. ​but Jesus said " Heaven and Earth shall pass away but my word will remain ". Miracles occurred long before Jesus Christ and Christianity read your Old Testament ,Miracles are almost a dime a dozen. God still performs miracles. " I Am the same Yesterday, Today and Forever " is a regular theme throughout the Bible. Because people do not know how to do miracle does not mean there are no more Miracles.
People just cannot believe the whole Bible. In the end they are the ones who will suffer and perish for lack of knowledge.

Shuu. Jehovah’s Witnesses said this and they said that. Una no dey tire.

COVID-19 spread through out the world since last year up til now yet not one of your Daddies in the Lord who claim to perform miracles have been able to cure ONE case of COVID-19.

That’s where you should start from before attacking the Witnesses. Many people are waking up to the scams that have been purported by these religious leaders claiming miracle workers and now instead of you to direct your anger towards them for deceiving many persons, you’re busy looking in the wrong direction.

You attended your crossover service for 2019 entering 2020 right ? How come all them pastors never saw the COVID-19 coming that brought the world to a standstill ? Instead they were telling you that 2020 was your year and all the rest.

Why won’t the “Christianity” you practice be a disgrace to Jesus when all the so-called miracles that have been performed by your Daddies in the Lord were all for show. Jesus referred to those kind of persons who have been doing these things at Matthew 24:24. Because the miracles yield no fruit except to deceive many who choose to be deceived. 1Timothy 4:1

It didn’t start today. I ​guess many people would be able to recall what the Revolutionary United Front(RUF) group did when they were fighting the civil war in Liberia. These monsters in human skins using children as foot soldiers to fight their enemies. Definitely, it would injure the sense of empathy of any right thinking person.

DeepSight:

This simply reveals the radical fundamentalist and fanatical intolerance which my original question sought to bring into the light.
Thank you, my job is done.

LOL! Fanatical intolerance because I chose not to continue the discussion with you ? You would rather want me to continue against my will ?

Please go and resolve your issue with apostle Paul first before we can continue our chat. That’s the assignment I’ve given you.

Toodles.

Be that as it may, I’ve lost all interests in having further discussion with you. I take religious people seriously because at least I know they stand for some thing. Not someone who agrees with, yet still disagrees with the Bible at the same time.

DeepSight:
You see, -
1. There were also theological/ scriptural/ historical disagreements between the Jews and the Samaritans.
https://www.britannica.com/topic/Samaritan
2. The significance of "the priest and Levite" are cardinal to this discussion.
Don't tell me that is lost on you?
I mentioned it just so you understand I do not subscribe to biblical inerrancy.
Any condescension you imagine arises in your mind only perhaps on account of the prick of conscience.

No, I do not see the relevance of that parable in this discussion because Jesus wasn’t talking about associating with an unrepentant sinner but about someone who was of a different tribe/background.

DeepSight:
Its pitifully sad if you do not see the relevance of the parable to this discussion. Because that shows you do not even understand the discussion. Or the implications of your own doctrines.
The parable is directly relevant to the matter at hand.
I am completely non-religious. I do not subscribe to any religion. In my youth though, I used to be one of you.
Time to shun me?

Whether you’re religious or not, I don’t really see how that helps your case here.

Oh and please spare me the condescending attitude, you don’t know me from anywhere just as I don’t know you. Keep the mutual respect as it is and don’t go beyond that to feed your ego.

@DeepSight, the parable of the good Samaritan is actually inconsequential in this discussion. We’re talking about someone who sinned/deviated from the truth, and what should be done in that case. Not you using a Biblical outlier like the good Samaritan parable as some kind of front when it doesn’t even fit into context.


P.S. I’m pleased to let you know I don’t feel compelled to read your long message after you’ve said that the apostle Paul’s teachings contradicted that of Christ’s. Your message can be directed to the apostle Paul and not me.
Thank you.

DeepSight:

It is well noted in the gospels that he associated freely with "tax collectors and sinners." Why?

The reason being that tax collectors do normally collect more than the usual rate from their countrymen (Luke 3:13) that’s why Zacchaeus was viewed as a sinner(Luke 19:7) because they were viewed as thieves. It’s just like NURTW impounding your car for a minor offense but they later extort you large amounts. Obviously, you’d feel animosity towards any NURTW representative.

Secondly the Parable of The Good Samaritan should suffice to help you.
How do you read it when he says, then, "a despised Samaritan" came along. . . ?

Jesus WAS not telling his disciples to become prejudiced and view non-Jews as scum. In fact, on a number of occasions he corrected their thinking in that regard about harbouring I'll thoughts towards non-Jews. Luke 9:55
And that was one practical lesson to be learnt from the parable of the good Samaritan.

With regards to Matthew 18:17, he was telling his followers to view persons who didn’t fall in line with congregational arrangements AS tax collectors and Gentiles. Because he knew that they would easily grasp that reference.

DeepSight:

There is no way Jesus would have supported this sort of hate-preachment.

In Jesus’ day, someone who wasn’t a Jew/Jewish proselyte i.e. a Gentile was viewed as a persona non grata.

So when Jesus was giving instructions to his followers on how to resolve issues at Matthew 18:15-17, he said that after the first, second and third steps to resolve the matter yielded no fruit, the person who is trying to resolve the issue should view the wrongdoer as a man of the nations[Gentile] and a tax collector.

Why the use of those terms in particular ? Because a Gentile and a tax collector were both viewed by the Jews as outcasts and sinners. Luke 19:7, Acts 11:2

Jesus was telling his followers to cease association with such persons who remained adamant and wanted to disrupt the peace of the congregation.
Was he inciting his followers to hatred ?
If no, please redefine what love means.

DeepSight:
If its a biblical teaching, one must say it is definitely not a Christ-like teaching. The teachings of Jesus stand in contradistinction to this Pauline fundamentalist discriminatory intolerance. This is not different from the worst sort of Nazi antisemitism.

Paul was commissioned by Jesus to take the good news to the Gentiles (you and me) Acts 9:15
You would never have heard about about Jesus if it weren’t for Paul so how can you say that Paul is contradicting his Master ?

The honest truth is that such a decisive action taken isn’t borne out of hatred for the wrongdoer because when God chastises a person, it is out of love that he does so(Proverbs 3:12) so ​that the person can come back to his senses.

Again, there has never been discipline that is sweet and pleasant(Hebrews 12:11) but at the end of the day, when the person repents of his sin and asks God for forgiveness(Isaiah 55:7), his paths will no longer be crooked but straight again. Hebrews 12:13

There is no way Jesus would have supported this sort of hate-preachment .

Dare I say you have little or no knowledge about the man named Jesus ?
You said Paul was intolerant, while Jesus was ?

First of all, the word ‘intolerant’ can mean many things to different people. To some, it means someone who sees his own as the best while others false or it could mean someone who purposely hurts others who disagree with him in opinion.

Well neither Jesus nor Paul was the latter. So I’ll assume by ‘intolerant’, you mean the former ?

If Jesus were ‘tolerant’ as you make him seem, why did hammer on the fact that no other person could lead to God except him ? John 14:6
And that the Jewish temple was be brought to ruin after rejecting him as God’s Son ? Matthew 23:37-24:2

You also said Jesus’ preaching was about love. Good and fine. But he also said his teachings would cause divisions because people would rather prefer the reassuring lie over the truth so even family members will make sure they silence speakers of the truth. Matthew 10:34-36

To be continued.

Read the following Scriptures carefully and try to be objective in your reasoning, can you do that ?


Romans 16:17

“Now I urge you, brothers, to keep your eye on those who create divisions and causes for stumbling contrary to the teaching that you have learned, and avoid them.”


1Corinthians 5:11

“But now I am writing you to stop keeping company with anyone called a brother who is sexually immoral or a greedy person or an idolater or a reviler or a drunkard or an extortioner, not even eating with such a man.”

2John 9-11

“Everyone who pushes ahead and does not remain in the teaching of the Christ does not have God. The one who does remain in this teaching is the one who has both the Father and the Son.  If anyone comes to you and does not bring this teaching, do not receive him into your homes or say a greeting to him. For the one who says a greeting to him is a sharer in his wicked works.”


Do you believe that the first century Christians were cultists to have laid down such rules ?

Honestly, I don’t think your problem is with the Witnesses. Actually, your case should be against the Bible itself but you’re using the critique of Witnesses as a smokescreen.

To many people, the Bible is a bag filled with jellybeans and gravel, so they try to select the ones that are enticing to them and leave the ones that doesn’t sit right with them.

But that’s different when it comes to Jehovah’s Witnesses because we accept all the 66 books of the Bible as inspired of God so every part must be considered in our worship. 2Timothy 3:16

DeepSight:

This reads - I urge you, brothers and sisters, to watch out for those who cause divisions and put obstacles in your way that are contrary to the teaching you have learned. Keep away from them.[/i]1. How do you read the words "keep away from them?"
2. Does it suggest to you excommunication from fellowship?
3. Do you believe that such should form grounds for the division and break-up of families? For example, if that person is a spouse, do you "keep away from them?" Do you shun them? If that person is a parent, do you shun them?
4. Do you recognize the potential for cult-like fanaticism in this? Do you recognize that shunning others was a standard practice of many of the most dangerous cults in history?
5. Do you recognize the potential for religious intolerance in this? In the sense that if you are to "keep away" from people who think differently from you in terms of religion, then you probably should not associate with people of other faiths.
6. How would you feel if people of other faiths "shunned" you for being a JW?
7. How can you show Christian love to a shunned person?
This reads - [i]He was in the world, and though the world was made through him, the world did not recognize him. 11 He came to that which was his own, but his own did not receive him.
What does this have to do with shunning?

It’s good to know the authorities have looked into this matter because the black soot has really become too much!

Imagine AQI levels going as high as 300. Shows that in the coming years, we’d have lot of persons battling with respiratory illnesses and cancer.

MaxInDHouse:
God bless my first Bible study conductor!
He made me understand that only those living by the standard of the Organization are real JWs while the rest are still contemplating whether to continue with us or waiting for any opportunity to say "goodbye" to the organization.
So whenever anybody comes up with stories i will ask sensitive questions that will silence the false storyteller.
Last Saturday i attended a wedding with a friend (my Bible student) he told me he'll like to smoke a cigarette i escorted him because he's my guest at the party. I never knew that Jehovah is about to use that opportunity for me to bear another witness.
On getting to the place where he wants to smoke his cigarettes he said "Now i know that it's wrong for JWs to smoke because i was watching everyone at the party, i noticed different types of beer, wine and alcoholic drinks but no cigarettes. Now i know why my friend (JW) always hide whenever we want to smoke. So he's not a real JW"

Exactly!

The only time opposers can have a solid argument is if after Jehovah’s Witnesses strongly abhor the unclean practice of smoking (2Corinthians 7:1), they then become lenient and possibly overlook when someone is caught practicing that sin. That would be outright hypocrisy.

Which never happens.

So if wrongdoers are disciplined for disobeying God’s laws worthy of disfellowshipping, then how is it that the JW organization are the problem here when they are basically acting in harmony with God’s word to remove the wicked and unclean person from their midst ? 1Corinthians 5:6, 13

Barristter07:


This is really bad ,if true.

Hmm. There is more than one side to a story shaa.
I know you’re aware there are JW families where not all the children eventually make the truth theirs and get baptized ?

Some accompany their parents to KH only to be bench warmers and when they leave home, they do what is truly in their heart. So does having affiliations with Witnesses mean one is truly a JW ?

The Chelsea CDM by the name of Chalobah evidently has family links to Witnesses, yet that doesn’t make him one. You dig ?

That can be a side to the story.

The other side to the story is that the person might even be baptized but deliberately flouting Jehovah’s commands by even dating an unbeliever in the first place. How is that person exemplary ? Can the person be viewed as a real JW ? 2Thessalonians 3:14

And if it so happened the person was a baptized Witness and the issue of abortion became known in the neighborhood, will the elders conceal his sin ? Or will not the elders in the person’s congregation discipline him and disfellowship him considering the severity of the sin ? 1Corinthians 5:11; Exodus 21:22
So how is the person still viewed as a JW after all that ?


The third side to the story is there might even be no story at all. The individual you quoted has a long record of demonstrating his hatred for JWs.
Imagine him arguing that God’s name isn’t Jehovah simply because he wants to discredit the Witnesses. So it might be another cooked up story let’s tread carefully so our enemies do not take us for fools. Exodus 23:1, Proverbs 14:15