₦airaland Forum

Moorish:
What I will say to you is this

Eastern yoruba like ondo and ekiti did have skirmishes with benin. There were wins and there were losses

However, I won't disagree that those states were tributaries to benin.

However, "yoruba" as a term only applied to the citizens of the oyo city state and by extension all our tributary states

It is only post independence that the term "yoruba" encompassed all yoruba speaking peoples

So technically you never really occupied "yorubaland"

In pre-colonial times, "Yorubaland" will encompass the following present day locations:

Oyo kingdom (Oyo state, Osun state, Ogun state, kwara state and the republic of benin)

Ibadan did try to conquer towards the east

And we must be given credit because the egbas and ijebus enacted a blockage against us, so we couldn't import weapons through lagos.. the ekitis and ondos were also pushing against us from the east

Ogedengbe of the ondos was one of their warriors.

That was in the past

I believe we are united now

Well you make more sense that some other Yorubas on here.. I wonder why all this fight about history.. its all in the past now.. There were conquerors and there were the conquered. But all those dont affect our present now.. Its all just history. We should celebrate it rather than fight and try to distort it.

Moneywomen17:
all I see is just nonsense u wrote down with no source to back it up. The army that fought the kriji war were only Yoruba no third party especially Benin was involved so stop lying. There was no Benin warrior in the war. U said Ibadan wanted to free their brother, which brother from Benin this shows how dumb u are coz there was no brothers in the past each saw themselves as individuals autonomous. The war was fought so as to not be conquer by Ibadan not some stupid Benin. It was ekiti parapo led by ogedengbe and fabumi oke Mesi not Benin parapo. The ekitis were fighting to be free on their not to stay under one wrapper tying people. Till today the ekiti love for small autonomous communities is only rival by the Igbo people there can be 40 king in one town not baale oo king coz they don’t like bowing to others.

E dey pain you abi? The truth is bitter as they say but you will be forced to swallow it.

Go and research Benin Military campaigns in Eastern Yorubalands, there you will find the truth. Benin Army fought the Kriji wars. and for your information, your Ogedengbe was beheaded by Benin after he tried to march on Benin and lost.

Olu317:
Yoruba didn't try to capture Bini because she was baby to the larger Yoruba States . A struggling descendants of Oranmiyan couldnt have attacked . Princes dont fight themselves except in those era. Their crowns are their identities. As it was in the beginning that Oranmiyan captured Igodomigod , Bini had always been seen as a cousin to Yoruba. And again, Oyo was the major Empire, while some provinces and states paid tributary to Oyo. And these people did this because of the military might and organization of Oyo.

You Yoruba guys make me laugh. The only people you deceive with your lies and fake history is your own fellow Yorubas, just the way the only people Oyo conquered and sold into slavery was their own fellow Yoruba brothers and sisters.

Go and research Benin Yoruba wars, only articles you will find is about Benin military campaigns in Eastern Yorubalands, defeating all yoruba armies that stood against it.. Even your Ogedengbe of Ilesha that tried to march on Benin was defeated and beheaded at Ehor.

Olu317:
I have no love lust for anyone,even if its not about African Kingdoms or Empires. But I won't allow a young person tell lies about my ancestors. This is my point.

You do not know the truth about your ancestors or the society which they lived in.

Moneywomen17:
Just to chip in some people are saying Benin conquered eastern Yoruba land. My question to them is if Benin conquer eastern Yoruba land like ekiti why were the “conquered” eastern Yoruba involve in the kriji war? People like Fabunmi of ekiti fought for their freedom from Ibadan after the collapse of oyo. The kriji war was a civil war among Yoruba and the eastern Yoruba were involved and Benin was no where to be found because the eastern Yoruba were free and autonomous people and no fucking benin was ruling them. The south eastern Yoruba had no knowledge of any Benin rule over them because it never happened, all that happened between eastern Yoruba and Benin was a little cultural mix nothing more.

My friend go and do your research again. Do you know which army fought in the Kriji war? Do you really know what that war was about?
Before the Kriji war started, Eastern Yoruba was under Benin Kingdom. The war was fought because Ibadan was trying to free their brothers from Benin and also trying to take over control of the area. Benin Army together with their Yoruba loyalists fought that war and defeated Ibadan thereby ensuring Benin remained in control of the area till they were finally defeated by the British Army.

Below is a copied piece from my source concerning the Kriji war:

"During this period, the Ekiti vassal states of Benin were also beset by
by the growing military forces of Ibadan, for which reinforcements from Benin were despatched for assistance in the wars. This was also the period when the Yoruba states were engaged in wars, which had its consequences for the expansion of Benin in the area"


Also below is another piece proving Benin's Lordship over eastern Yorubas;

"In 1818 the Akure-Benin War broke out. The war aim of Benin was to regain the territory and enforce the payment of tribute, for which Akure put up defensive fighting.41 The Benin army was led by three top war commanders namely, the Ezomo, the Ologbosere and the Imaran, and two other Front Commanders - Imadiyi and Oyodo.
The Benin soldiers successfully suppressed the Akure revolt. Their success in the Akure War, however, was due to the support of additional contingents of soldiers and logistics from the Ikerres in eastern Yorubaland and from Irrua - an Esan chiefdom.

After the reconquest of Akure, the two Front Commanders of the Benin army, Imadiyi and Oyodo, established a military base at Otun for the continuation of military campaigns in Ekiti region and other parts of eastern Yorubaland. Several towns and chiefdoms were conquered and brought under the control of Benin. The Ekitis remained loyal to the Oba of Benin for a few years and revolted. This necessitated another military action under the command of Omuemu - one of the Front Commanders of the Benin army. With the success of the campaign, the Ekitis renewed their ‘allegiance to the Oba of Benin and the payment of tribute was maintained until the British occupation in 1897. There is evidence that the Deji of Akure played a crucial role for the Oba of Benin, in enforcing the payment of the tribute."


Please do not be deceived by some fellow Yorubas that come on here to lie and deny actual events that was recorded as being true. Benin Kingdom ruled Yorubas till late 19th century when the kingdom was defeated by the British.

Adesmart01:
My name is comr. Prince John Olusola Adejube Temitope from Oyegbata royal family of odokoli in Iba Ipe akoko Ondo state Nigeria. We speak different language in Akoko just as Akoko Edo do but speak yoruba as d general language

Are your ancestors Yoruba or Edo?

Moorish:
Since when I was a lurker on nairaland, before creating my account, I always knew you as a man of high repute

Glad to see you post here

All you brothers have fair points, and make me question the history my Benin brothers have been giving me all these years

I was born and raised in Benin territory and I was taught that the Benin’s basically spawned my civilization

But you brothers are bringing some very convincing and alternative ideas

However, I will always maintain that it seems on the white man’s arrival here, the Benin’s reigned supreme, oyo also had some magnitude, and the sokoto caliphate too. kanem Borno not so much, nok was long since dead, and our brothers in the east were purely sedantry at the time, not really an empire, but also had sophisticated communities,

So, yea, oyo, Benin and sokoto were the people who had kingdoms at the time

The Portuguese seemed quite impressed by Benin, so those brothers deserve props and should be proud

We also know oyo was dominating its environment and were very formidable in battle. So I don’t know why we don’t have mutual respect for eachother

It is the Yorubas that are replacing facts with myths and fables. We Edos don’t want to dwell on myths and fables or else we would be promoting stories of great Igodomigodo where black race started from, where God first touched the earth and the cradle of black civilization.
Rather we choose to talk about events that was witnessed and documented and whose impacts is still felt till today.
Benin once ruled over Yoruba. Let them deny it as much as they want. It is recorded in books and archives as what was witnessed by foreigners that traveled all over Africa..

Yes Oyo was strong, it had a formidable Calvary but it’s power was only against fellow Yorubas which they conquered and sold into slavery.
Benin army was more powerful. Three times they tried to war Benin kingdom and three times they were badly beaten up and warned never to ever venture east of Ife or else they will be invaded

You can go research it. It is all in the records.

Moneywomen17:
Just to chip in some people are saying Benin conquered eastern Yoruba land. My question to them is if Benin conquer eastern Yoruba land like ekiti why were the “conquered” eastern Yoruba involve in the kriji war? People like Fabunmi of ekiti fought for their freedom from Ibadan after the collapse of oyo. The kriji war was a civil war among Yoruba and the eastern Yoruba were involved and Benin was no where to be found because the eastern Yoruba were free and autonomous people and no fucking benin was ruling them. The south eastern Yoruba had no knowledge of any Benin rule over them because it never happened, all that happened between eastern Yoruba and Benin was a little cultural mix nothing more.

Many of eastern Yoruba monarchy was installed by Benin. Maybe you should start ur chipping in from there.

MetaPhysical:
Do you notice that your map is missing many civilizations that pre-dated the map? If you observe you will realize the places marked are spots touched by seafarers or dessert chroniclers. In other words places experienced by those who wrote and drew maps in ancient times. If they did not touch Yorubaland it was not on the map. It does not mean they did not hear about Yorubaland because same sailors snd dessert travelers were the historians that documented and kept records of Bini roots and origin in Ife.

In equal measure I will support what Olu said about OVIEDO in one of his posts. So Ovie is Edo for child. Omo is not in Edo vocabulary. So how did you come about the title Omo N Oba, why is a foreign vocabulary attached to your monarch's official title? Which foreign land uses the word OMO?

Also Babaramota said Ile Ibinu is also not indigenous to Edo, that it is foreign. Yet your greatness as a society is enveloped in the city-name Bini or Benin.

The renaming of your land by the foreigner Oranmiyan is significant and point to conquest over Edo.

In all of these maps not one points to Edo, they all say Bini.

Your inability to shake off the foreign migrants from Ife that installed their throne and renamed your land is not lost on any of us.

Here is your assignment
1. Was there a Bini population on Edoland prior to Oranmiyan?

2. Is Omo an Edo vocabulary? If yes, what does it mean and how is it used?

3. Why are there no mention or accounts of Edo on map or Edo Kingdom or Empire in historical archives?

4. Why did Edo Chiefs go to Ife to appeal for a Yoruba ruler? What is it about Ife rulers that appealed to them?



Plenty precolonial maps exist and show functionality for sea voyage. A sailor will not sail to Oyo or Ife, so did not include in map. A dessert caravan will not go to Oyo or Ife for water or for rest and relief, so why bother put on map? However as trade markets opened into the interior of Africa, cartographers began adding routes on map.

I shake my head for ur lack of sense. Is there any mention of Yoruba on maps or is there mention of Yoruba empire?
Please argue with sense.

BabaRamota1980:
Leave Yoruba and Nupe and Fulani to discuss turf on a separate thread for them.

This is not Fulani thread, not Nupe thread. This is Yoruba, Edo thread.

Yoruba is not fighting superirority with you. We civilized you, no need to question our superiority over you. We are diacussing your rebellion to our power over you...and we on our part will devise a new dynasty over you like we did successfully with past two dynasties ever recorded in your existence.

But yet Great Benin Kingdom conquered and ruled your people (Yorubas).. its a stigma on you for forever.. you are a conquered tribe.

BabaRamota1980:
We have given claims, we have demonstrated with arts, we have shared historical accounts, we even gave references...Yoruba speak, backed with facts.

The people that said Bini is vast were not wrong. Bini is Yoruba. So from Bini to Togo to Eastern edge of Ghana in the Volta valley,the culture, arts, customs, history is homogeneous. If the homogeneity had not been broken by other discretely different customs they would have continued to list the vastness all the way further West till they find a break. So you are not saying something new or strange that we already do not know.

Bini is different from Edo. Speak for your Edo tribe.

Where does Edoland expand?

It is you that divides Edo.. We Edo knows ourselves. no need to enlighten you on that, keep deceiving yourself.

Benin Kingdom was at a time known worldwide and witnessed to be greater than Oyo empire and ruled over many of your tribes. That is a fact.
I think you are arguing if Benin spread as a people to all those places instead of Benin colonizing those places.. Benin didnt spread as a people into those lands, Benin Kingdom colonized all those places. Lagos was a colony, eastern Yoruba states were under Benin Kingdom. That is the fact.

FYI; Bini is not Yoruba, Bini is Edo.

Olu317:
What distortion? That Oviedo' is known as 'child of Edo' and not omo Edo ? Yoruba's word for child was and is Omo without alternative( Omo Yoruba) Yet you borrowed word from Yoruba and later deny the truth? Some of You Edos are the problem and we will always put you lot in your rightful place so that you and your likes won't distort history. We give out fact and not usage of foul words online and any Yoruba that reply you with foul words would naturally be as a result of negative attitude online toward such. And any Yoruba who uses negative words without consistently provocation isn't Omoluabi. But you Edos with hatred for the truth which is the reason I mock at your ignorance. Before, I forget, here was the Bini Kingdom in 19th century so that you will not continue to give out wrong information about Bini kingdom.
Live with the truth.

HOW ON EARTH CAN YOU SPREAD UP TO COTONOU OR BÉNIN REPUBLIC, WHEN YOU ARE WITHIN YOUR ENCLAVE BELOW?DELUSION OF THE HIGHEST ORDER. ;DWhat distortion? That Oviedo' is known as 'child of Edo' and not omo Edo ? Yoruba's word for child was and is Omo without alternative( Omo Yoruba) Yet you borrowed word from Yoruba and later deny the truth? Some of You Edos are the problem and we will always put you lot in your rightful place so that you and your likes won't distort history. We give out fact and not usage of foul words online and any Yoruba that reply you with foul words would naturally be as a result of negative attitude online toward such. And any Yoruba who uses negative words without consistently provocation isn't Omoluabi. But you Edos with hatred for the truth which is the reason I mock at your ignorance. Before, I forget, here was the Bini Kingdom in 19th century so that you will not continue to give out wrong information about Bini kingdom.
Live with the truth.

HOW ON EARTH CAN YOU SPREAD UP TO COTONOU OR BÉNIN REPUBLIC, WHEN YOU ARE WITHIN YOUR ENCLAVE BELOW?DELUSION OF THE HIGHEST ORDER.

Common sense is really not common with some people or you blinded with jealousy you forgot your common sense somewhere abi?
Rome is tiny but ruled the world. I think some Yorubas will understand that size dont matter but it is your bravery and power and strategy that counts and Great Benin had it all.
Your map only shows location of Benin and not the reach and influence of its empire.. You really not get sense at all.. Macrof is more sensible than you.

on another note, if you say Benin is tiny and Yoruba is large but yet you fighting superiority battle with Benin and having this back and forth arguments, doesn't it show that Great Benin must have impacted your lives in a very big way? afterall no smoke without fire.

Moorish:
I mean no disrespect man, but...

How do you expect to live in a country with the Edos with this your rhetoric?

You are basically saying yorubas are superior to edos.

I do not believe that.

What i believe is we have things which make us unique. That should be our focus

If the Edos say they are superior to us and we say same, that is the start of conflict

We should respect each other.

I have a deep reverence and love for my ancestors, all the peoples who now make up nigeria

I never had the priviledge of being born and raised in my ancestral land of oyo. I have lived in parts of nigeria and outside nigeria

A nigerian heritage is my only hope

Peace

Thank you for your opinion. It is the Yorubas that are fighting superiority battle with Edos. We Edos are only trying to educate them on events that happened in history. Historical events that are not myth or fables but actual events that was witnessed. In the old days Great Benin ruled over vast part of Yoruba lands, set up their local administration/monarchy with Benin descendants. But yet for reason unknown to anybody and shocking, the Yorubas are denying these events. Please what is there to be ashamed of? Why deny your past? Yet Yoruba can agree Nupe conquered you and ruled over you for 100yrs.. Yoruba agree Fulani conquered them and changed their way of life and still conquering them til today..

BabaRamota1980:
Olu is not arguing or fighting, he is setting history straight. He is doing a FANTASTIC job and we love his drive.

Notice that we can never disrespect or tarnish the stool of Omo N'Oba because the throne and crown, the staff of sword and Ase in his posession belong to Yoruba dynasty in Bini. However, we must continue to assault and denigrate those who seek to bring the Omo N'Oba into disrepute and erase the footprint of his ancestry...like the uncivilized Edos who we enlightened and taught the art of State Rulership.

Edo has done much to repeat the rebellion that led to our domination over them in past. If it wasn't for the broader modern political system that overshadows the traditional State power we should repeat our humiliation and introduce a third dynasty over their landlocked land and subject them under Ijaw for State Rulership. That way we can have an independent Bini ruled by Omo N'Oba and an independent Edo ruled by Ijaw Chiefs.

We did it in past when gave them the Ogiso Chiefdom in first dynasty, gave them Oba Kingdom in second dynasty......who says we cannot impose on them a third dynasty of rulers from Ijawland? Na Nigeria save Edo.

See this one feeling good with his lies.. You no dey shame?
In this modern age the Yorubas is still being dominated and ruled by Fulanis.. Your Obas are changing to Emirs and you are talking about Great Benin where civilization started from. No where is it recorded that Yoruba ever conquered or dominated Great Benin but it is documented in archives all over the world that Great Benin conquered and ruled Yorubas.. It is a stigma on you guys and can never be removed.

Up till 1897 when the British army defeated Great Benin in battle, Benin was expanding as an independent kingdom and was in control of eastern yoruba lands. na British free una from Benin..

Olu317:
Obviously you fall within the category of people that claim what they have no knowledge. I reaffirm so that it sink deep to your head; I am Oranmiyan's descendant,so stop this unproven assertion that belong to only the LIARS from Edo. We descended not from Edoland and stop this emotional astute because it is all fallacy after the Edo beneficiary want to take a glory that belongs to Yorubas. Heterogenous People that struggled with her neighbours during ancient era that lost few places they try to manoeuvre with total Area; 17,802 km² (6,873 sq mi).
And If divided with the four major ethnic groups; namely Edo (Binis), Esan, Owan and Etsako. How many landmass would Edo–Aka–Udu –Igodomigodo control? It means Edo–Bini will control 1718.25 sq mi..

Why I am the 40th Oba of Benin Kingdom?
History also reminds us of the importance of the present time which is the only opportunity we have to take the different and too often fragmented components of our collective past to prepare the foundation for a unifying and collective future. A long line of succession of kings in the Kingdom known as Benin, started in the 12th century by modern recording. There may be some different views about the origin of some of our ancestors, but there is unanimity in the shared heritage between the people of Benin and lle lfe in identifying Oduduwa as a forebear of kingship in many kingdoms in some part of Africa and the part called Nigeria today. Historians all agreed that Oduduwa sent his son Oromiyan at the request of elders of Benin to return to them as ruler of their realm. Oromiyan staying in Benin may have been short, but before he left, a child was born to him, who was later crowned Oba and he is known today as Eweka the 1st. ;
Oromiyan’s time in Benin, however short-lived, he was an Oba and so he was the first OBA after the Ogiso dynasty came to an end.

Oranmiyan was the first Oba in Bini...As simple as ABC.

N.B: Better keep off on Yoruba issue as regard Odua or Oranyan and kindly go to romance section or other sections to showcase your talent that suit personality as yours!

Wether Benin was a small piece of land doesn’t change the fact that Benin kingdom conquered and ruled your tribe (Yoruba).
Soon your Oni will acknowledge that truth.

OlaoChi:
@davidnazee

Your side argument with Olu apart, Yorubas have been using "Oba" for as long as Ife has existed.

It was used by the previous leaders Oduduwa conquered

In contrast to Bini that used "Ogie-so" before the first Oba came

That is your opinion. Nobody can say what is true or not because there is no evidence of it. It’s all lost in myths now.
But what is an everlasting truth, witnessed and felt and documented is that Great Benin Kingdom once ruled over vast part of Yorubalands and people.

Yorubas should swallow their pride and acknowledge that.. it was all in the past, nothing to be ashamed of.

Olu317:
Stop this child-like play! There was no Bini before Oranmiyan. You had huts, uncivilized and chaotoic system.
And what was the topic? Have you forgotten so suddenly ? “Oba Benin visits Ooni of Ife"
Why are you like this Edoman? Yet you want to engage me ? Eleda have mercy.

The place you said had huts and uncivilized was regarded as the most advanced and developed of all ancient African cities/states.. more developed and advanced than Ife which was the only Yoruba state existing at that time.

Moreover you cannot deny that Great Benin kingdom conquered and ruled all Yorubalands east of Ife, shaped and installed your monarchy.
Benin influence is still felt and seen in those territories till today.

Olu317:
Obviously you fall within the category of people that claim what they have no knowledge. I reaffirm so that it sink deep to your head; I am Oranmiyan's descendant,so stop this unproven assertion that belong to only the LIARS from Edo. We descended not from Edoland and stop this emotional astute because it is all fallacy after the Edo beneficiary want to take a glory that belongs to Yorubas. Heterogenous People that struggled with her neighbours during ancient era that lost few places they try to manoeuvre with total Area; 17,802 km² (6,873 sq mi).
And If divided with the four major ethnic groups; namely Edo (Binis), Esan, Owan and Etsako. How many landmass would Edo–Aka–Udu –Igodomigodo control? It means Edo–Bini will control 1718.25 sq mi..

Why I am the 40th Oba of Benin Kingdom?
History also reminds us of the importance of the present time which is the only opportunity we have to take the different and too often fragmented components of our collective past to prepare the foundation for a unifying and collective future. A long line of succession of kings in the Kingdom known as Benin, started in the 12th century by modern recording. There may be some different views about the origin of some of our ancestors, but there is unanimity in the shared heritage between the people of Benin and lle lfe in identifying Oduduwa as a forebear of kingship in many kingdoms in some part of Africa and the part called Nigeria today. Historians all agreed that Oduduwa sent his son Oromiyan at the request of elders of Benin to return to them as ruler of their realm. Oromiyan staying in Benin may have been short, but before he left, a child was born to him, who was later crowned Oba and he is known today as Eweka the 1st. ;
Oromiyan’s time in Benin, however short-lived, he was an Oba and so he was the first OBA after the Ogiso dynasty came to an end.

Oranmiyan was the first Oba in Bini...As simple as ABC.

N.B: Better keep off on Yoruba issue as regard Odua or Oranyan and kindly go to romance section or other sections to showcase your talent that suit personality as yours!

You keep running away from the real topic of discussion. Nobody is denying if Oranmiyan or Eweka were Obas in Benin kingdom.
The issue is true Identity of Oduduwa which we know is from Benin and also that Benin kingdom conquered and ruled Yorubalands.

You can not deny these events as false. They are true.

Olu317:
Who is ignorant if not you? If you have no idea of an issue,why delve into it at first? It is advisable to keep off what you have no knowledge of. If you arent sure , Oba Ewuare II affirmed it on his coronation day ,that Oba was imported word to Edo land from Yoruba land . It is not contestable....As simple as ABC.

Please where did Oba Ewuare say oba is an imported word from Yoruba land? He only said Oranmiyan was brought to Benin to become the first Oba. Was Yoruba using Oba for their rulers at that time??

Also Oba Ewuare said “Those of you that know the history know that the then Oliha came to Ife to ask that Oranmiyan be brought to Benin. There are details in history books. I am cutting out the details. It’s all in the history books and you can research that”

Our Oba showed great wisdom and grace by not going into details else he would have made his hosts look foolish.

Unlike Yoruba that busy themselves with untrue stories of our pasts Obas head brought to Ife, showing pictures of dilapidated building as burial place of obas of Benin.

I even wonder why the Yoruba elders brought that story up at the meeting. Stories that have no substance and not true.
Foolishness!!

Moorish:
You seem knowledgeable but there was no need for the insults

I for one, a Yoruba man, view Benin kingdom with a lot of pride. I have a respect for what our fathers accomplished there

I do pray people move around this country more. And out of the county also

A clannish supremacist mindset is not the best way to live.

I for one am proudly a Yoruba son, but I am also proud of Benin kingdom, as a black man I can appreciate our collective heritage. Why can’t you do same ?

I can do the same but the yorubas should stop denying and distorting true events that happened in history.

Y0ruba:
This is whole of basis of the noise Bini revisionists make. They were at their apogee at the time the Portuguese came & they provided markers in their history. Meanwhile they accept the smoke Portuguese blew under their skirt but will get rabid when we cite pointers to what the Pirtuguese recorded about Ife from Bini king. D’aviero Pacheco’s travel journal comes to mind.

Ibadan was cut short. It was a growing empire and a budding ‘crazy man’ of W.Africa who wanted to fully conquer its environment - Ife, Egba, Ijebu, Ijesa &!Ekiti before spreading its tentacles farther. And like you rightly said Kiriji did us in, it cut Yoruba down. An advantage the British hugged. Bolanle Awe’s doctoral thesis on Ibadan comes to mind.

Of course Oyo was way stronger. Bini benefitted from kin ties between their Oba & Yoruba kings. Also the treaty you mentioned is new to me. Care to elaborate sir? Also, in Samuel Johnson’s seminal work, it was stated that Ogedengbe marched against Bini but was appeased immensely by their Oba who begged him with beads, slaves & other goods.

Hahaha. Yoruba that is synonymous with weakness that you compare to mighty Benin. If Oyo or Yoruba is strong why then is Yoruba always regarded as WEAK? It’s a trait you guys possess.
On the other hand Benin is synonymous with strength and might.

You call Oyo an empire but yet it’s influence was only towards its western side. An empire should spread in all directions.
Benin’s influence spread to North (Igalas), East(Igboland), West (Yorubaland up to Togo).. that is a true empire.

Lastly how come all notable historical African heroes who resisted imperial whiteman are from Benin kingdom (Niger-Delta) but Yoruba as big and strong like u claim couldn’t resist..

Please Yoruba you guys shud continue to hug your weakness and leave Edo alone.

Moorish:
Very convincing argument here

Do you however agree that Benin was most mighty in Nigeria at the time the white man came?

The Portuguese seemed to have a lot of respect for Benin

It’s like we the yorubas didn’t reach our potential thanks to the fulanis and in fighting like kiriji ?

I will say though that it’s probable Oyo was stronger militarily than Benin, we controlled larger swathes of landmass, the whole present day replubic of Benin was paying tribute to Alaafin at some point

Oyo also tried to conquer Benin three times and failed

Which led to the treaty of ogbohu?

All Nigerians are pure rolyalty though, it’s so sad people are ignorant of this glorious heritage

It’s true Benin was a mighty kingdom and the mightiest and most influential when the whites came. Oyo was never stronger than Benin militarily.. Oyo probably had a larger Calvary forces.
Reason both kingdoms never went to war was because they both had different military tactics. Oyo forced were best at open plains while Benin was best at forests and infantry attacks.
Three times Oyo tried to attack Benin and were badly beaten up.
Benin would have probably lost if it had gone to Oyo too becos of Oyo large numbers.
So both kingdoms never really went to full out war.

Y0ruba:
You are stretching your luck.

Bini occupied pocket places not a stretch of land.

Empires are known to stretch evenly with the seat of power playing the nucleus. Benin could not conquer Owo & skipped to Ekitilands but failed. You should read books & not websites. Benin’s efforts in Ekiti area failed as a result of the far distance between Ekiti & Bini. When armies go to Ekiti to raid, they hardly ever receive support to entrench their rule and mostly always had to kust settle in with the more populous locals who reassert their independence. Until a new Bini king emerges and another army is raised again, the circle went over and over again.

Bini left so many areas between her & Lagos but came to Lagos Island to settle on a minute patch of land which was given to it out of recognized Bini & Yoruba connections NOT conquest. Did you even know Bini tried to take Epe & was badly defeated?

As for Akure, they had interactions including trade with Bini. Bini invaded once and left. The same way Ilesa had interactions with Bini. And Akure throne was revitalized by Ilesa throne. If you did not know, original Yoruba kings regarded themselves as brothers but Alaafin, Owa Ilesa & Olu Bini had a special relationship amongst them. They saw each other as blood brothers and they were tight with one another historically. Hence, Bini did not occupy Akure which is an offshoot of Ilesa throne.

Empires are not occupied in pockets. You do not skip A to D then occupy E, skip F to J then conquer K. This is what Bini ‘Empire’ was like. Do you know in the academia, History & Archeology to be exact, Bini is referred to as a Kingdom is literatures and not an Empire? Did you know it was because Bini did not fit into the bill of an empire?

On Wikipedia, as edited by Bini people, which has now been taken down. It was written that Bini ‘empire’ occupied Onitsha, Obalende & Lagos Island & Parts of present day Ondo state. Do you know how many towns are between Bini & Obalende/Lagos Island which Bini was unable to touch? Do you know how many towns are between Bini & Onitsha? Which were not under Bini? Do you know how many towns are between Bini & ‘present day Ondo state’ which were independent? Was this how empires in world history operated?

You are just a pained liar. No matter how much u distort the truth it can never be changed.
Benin conquered and ruled Yoruba.. that is a fact.

How many towns were existing in the 15th century? All villages/settlements/towns in East of Ife were under Benin.

The Yorubas has always been a conquered tribe.. Nupe conquered and ruled you for 100yrs till mighty Benin kingdom came to your aid and drove out the Nupes and reinstalled the Oyo monarchy. If not for Benin you will be speaking Nupish today.
Fulanis defeated and still rule Yoruba till today.

Your Oba Akanbi of Owo has changed to a Muslim Emir Mohamadu Akanbi.

Y0ruba:
1. Ehen, please provide references to peered review articles of Archeology to back your claim up and I will concede. Several studies abound on Ife, Owo, Esie and Bini arts and guess what? Ife is regarded as the oldest of all. However, I will wait to learn something new from you. So please, share references.

2. Your point about bead seemed very aggressive. I was talking about the importance of bead use in the palace at different stages. Ife used it first and Benin adopted it royally much later when coral beads flooded coastal trades.

3. Benin became an Empire around 17th century, the same time Oyo had already reached its peak of expansion. How again did Bini conquer Yoruba? Owo is Yoruba’s border town to Bini but Bini never conquered Owo, it could not. Bini only occupied pockets of areas, small areas. It was not a military power outside of Edoid groups & their areas such as Esan, Auchi & so on. Outside Edo areas, it was not a power.

You sound like the white men who distorts truth for their self gain.
It’s common knowledge Benin was the first kingdom to grow into an empire. Benin saw the birth and death of Oyo empire.

Benin Empire ruled over Yoruba lands east of Ife while Oyo took western Yoruba lands. Only Ife was left independent because of its spiritual and religious status.

FYI I will say it again; Ekiti, ondo, owo and Lagos were all vassal states under Benin.

No amount of ur lies can ever change that.

Moneywomen17:
cool story but my question is how was oduduwa able to communicate with Yoruba if he was a Benin lost prince and Yoruba did not record him as speaking a foreign language or not being able to communicate with him. So how did a Benin prince speak Yoruba coz even when oranmiyan a Yoruba left for Benin he couldn’t understand the language just like u wrote in ur story. So how did he learn Yoruba and if he didn’t and was thought why is no reference to that in ife history about him. And why did he bear oduduwa in ife instead of the ikhederan and also how did Benin know he was their lost prince since he is so far away now with a new identity.

This is really a stupid question.. how did the white man communicate with Africans when they came? They were still able to colonize us.

Izoduwa didn’t defeat Ife in one day. He lived amongst them for many years before he took over the throne.

Summary of Oba Ewuare II speech to the Oni of Ife and all Yoruba people...

Oba Oronmiyan
{The link between the old Monarchy of Ogiso and the new Monarchy of Obas of Benin}
(1170 A.D-1200A.D)

Ikaladerhan then Ododuwa of Uhe (Ife) was about 70 years old and was too old to undertake the long journey to Igodomigodo. When he gave this excuse, pressure was mounted on him by the edionisen to send his son. He felt very reluctant sending his son too. He feared the safety of his son and needed some .guarantee. In order to test the sincerity of the Edionisen and know their ability to cater for his son, according to J. U. Egharevba, some lice were given to Oliha to look after. Eghaievba further cites tradition as saying that Oliha was able to send back the lice to Ododuwa (Ikaladerhan) at Uhe, after three years. It was this ability of Oliha to preserve the lice that gave Oliha the appellation Ogele or O
gele muu Odu. He is today called Oliha ‘ne ogele’as his praise name. After this feat, Ikaladerhan acceded to the request to send his son Oranmiyan called Omonoyan by the Binis to Igodomigodo.Oromiyan entourage included amongst others the Edigin Ilawure Ihama and Ezima. They accompanied him to Igodomigodo. They entered Igodornigodo through the Western route via Iyekovia. Ilawure and Ezima stayed off at Usen and Okemuen respectively and settled there. It was as from River Ovia that Oromiyan started feeling the resistance of those protesting against his coming.The ferryman refused crossing him until pressure was put on him by Edionisen.
The city, Irebor the Ogiearnien mobilized his supporters to stop Oromiyan from entering the city. When the Edionisen heard of this, they kept Oromiyan and entourage at Ego. The Enogie of Ego took care of him, while the Edionisen prepared his palace at Usama. He was here for some years. ‘He was not however crowned because of the enormous problems created by Ogieamien and his supporters

Irebor continued to rule almost half of the kingdom as an administrator. He surrounded himself with soldiers and declared his new title hereditary. With the hope of passing it to his descendants who would also rule like he had done. He resisted all attempts by the Edionisen to disposes him of the Ogiso’s stool.

The inability of the Edionisen to wrest the land and Ogiso’s properties from Irebor created difficulties for Oromiyan. He was living in fear and suspicion of the people. He could not successfully adapt himself to his new status despite the great support the Edionisen gave to him. He had problem of communicating with people, because of lack of understanding of Edo language.
Prince Oranmiyan, unable to bear the animosity for very long, renounced his office and called Igodomigodo land, Ile Ibinu (meaning a land of annoyance and vexation). He declared that only a child of the soil, educated in the culture and traditions of Igodomigodo could rule the kingdom.
Meanwhile, he fell in love with the daughter of Ogie Ego named Erinmwinde who had a male child for him. By this Eririmwinde became the mother of the first crowned Oba of Evbuoto.

If Oranmiyan was not related to the Edo royal household, why was he not given a princess as his partner? The woman who allegedly bore him a son was a lowly chief’s daughter. This is the quotation historians are asking those who question Oduduwa Benin roots.

Oromiyan decided to go back home as he could not rule successfully especially because of the resistance put up by Ogieamien and his supporters.

The edionisen then waited for his child to grow up so that he can assume the throne. At first, the child could not speak and the oracle consulted.

It prescribed the performance of some rites and the playing (akhue) marble by the young prince. After the rites, while playing the marble, he uttered the word owomika meaning “I captured it” when he struck the only remaining marble.

His curious expression the Yoruba was as a result of his training in Yoruba language by Edigun at Use, who was one of those who came from Uhe with Oromiyan. Since then, Use became a place where all Obas perform the marble playing ceremonies preceding their taking of titles, After Oromiyan had left, the Edionisen busied themselves with training the young prince in the mysteries of Ubani or Evbuoto kingship. They suspended all their political differences until the prince was old enough to take his father’s place and crown Old Ogieamien was a very strong and indomitable ‘character. He was determined not only to rule but also to ensure that Ogieamien became a hereditary title to be used by his descendants. Over his area when he died, he was succeeded by his son who went by the same title Ogieamien. He was not as able and forceful as his father. This character made him to start losing supporters to the young prince who had grown up and crowned, king of Igodomigodo.

The opinion of the people about Oronmiyan as a Yoruba man who came to Evbuoto as an inviter or as conqueror stated to be corrected. The edionisen were able to convince the people that Oronmiyan was a son of Ikaladerhan who became Ododuwa of Ife and that they wanted the continuity of the monarchy though the system of primogeniture.. But not all were convinced and accepted the newly installed monarchy of Ubini. Those who opposed the new monarch, that it is Ife off shoot, did not allow the remains of any Oba to be buried in Ubini. This was why the remains of any Oba was carried to where Oromiyan was buried at Ife and the place was known as “Orun Oba Ado “Heaven of the king of Edo”

To the Edionisen (King makers) and their supporters who were more than Ogieamien followers, were fully aware of the fact that prince Oromiyan was Ikaladerhan’s son. Ikaladeran was the only son of Ogiso Owodo who became Ododuwa of Uhe, hence the rightful heir to Benin throne. That is why they brought his son to come and continue the line of his father.
Oronmiyan was therefore the link between the old monarchy of Ogiso and the new monarchy of Obas of Benin. Oromiyan was not a foreign, invader who haven failed, assigned his infant son to the task. The Edionisen were instrumental to Oromiyan’s coming, having been sent by Ododuwa (Ikaladerhan) on their .The Edionisen wanted to preserve the royal line as best as they could. If Oromiyan was a foreign invader, it would have been impossible for his infant son to be given so much care and protection in the midst of anti-royalist who were opposed to the restoration and his installation and rule as a king.
If they were not aware that it was the kingly blood of Owodo that was still running in the veins of the young infant price, he would not had lived to become a king. It is unthinkable that 31 kings had ruled for almost 2000years -40B.C-1100A.D. succeeding each other on the principle of primogeniture and for the same people to go to a foreign land to bring a foreigner to come and rule over them in fact to happen. Hence one is convinced beyond reasonable doubt that Oromiyan was a son to Ikaladerhan who became Ododuwa of Uhe.

The Yoruba themselves said that Oduduwa came from the East and he was great spiritualist whereas Benin is East of Yoruba area and Ikaladerhan exile conceded with that period of the arrival of Ododuwa in Yoruba land.

"I therefore stand before you today as the 40th Oba of Benin.A direct descendant of Oromiyan, the son of Oduduwa who the Benin people of that era knew as Ekharaderan, their self exiled Prince who later became ruler in IIe Ife, the Benin people recognized Oduduwa and his origin but it is not in our place to force this recognition on others outside our boundaries. The history of the world, is a shared one and they will certainly be unexpected connections in future. This is a time for unity and not divisiveness’. A time for mutual respect, recognizing that our wholeness as equals is so much more than some of our past."

Oba Ewuare II
The Oba of Benin is always right!!

Wealthandjobs:
If you are not from the Benin Royal family,then,sincerely this is not your business.It is the business of the Yoruba.
The Ooni is not having any ceremony or event yet the whole paraphernalia of office and the Oba of Benin whose office I hold in high esteem, went to dobale in Ile Ife says it all.
The Benin Royalty is Yoruba,that may not be true for the subjects of the Oba of Benin.
That's why it's only the heads of the departed Oba of Benin that is buried in Ile Ife.

The Yoruba story about Oduduwa is extremely thin on substance. What we have is wrapped largely in myths, parables, and folktales. In fact, the most generous way to describe the story is that the Yoruba do not know anything about their highly revered progenitor. Oduduwa himself left a tell tale evidence of his ancestry in his lifetime. He reserved a special seat in his palace for his ancestors, which only the Bini monarch can sit on even now. No other human, whether Arab, Eskimo, Alaafin, Ooni, or Yoruba, (bleached or not), can sit on the seat. Despite this vivid evidence that has survived through the centuries, some Yoruba historians still claim that he was from somewhere in Arabia."

Y0ruba:
1. Yes, you will find several texts on this on googlebooks. Many of the Ife works have been dated to 10th C while Bini have been mostly around 15th C. For Ife, look up Ade Obayemi’s works; for Benin, look up PC Lloyd & Bradbury’s works. For a somewhat comparative study, see Suzanne Preston Blier, Art and Risk in Ancient Yoruba: Ife History, Power, and Identity, c.1300

2. Early Yoruba scholars agreed that Ife was a foremost Yoruba kingdom/empire that controlled vast lands until Owu and Oyo emerged. Ife was known for its monarchy & trade. Frobenius recorded to have heard of Ife in as far as Mali when he wrote his work between 1910 & 1913. However, archeologists have unearthed Ife glass beads in Mali & modern day Burkina Faso. This politico-economic status of Ife influenced the expansionist actions of Ife princes & commoners in other towns where they led or played important political roles. Most Ife princes/commoners who went to other towns met peoples and socio-political structures on ground - for example there was Oloyo who founded Oyo whose position Oranmiyan assumed for a shortwhile to stabilize the kingdom, same thing he did in Bini. Ajero, Alara, Owa Obokun, Ogboru, Maye, Alaketu, Onipopo, Orangun & so on subsumed systems on ground. Oranmiyan did the same in Bini when he warred with a certain Bini group - if he was ‘invited’, how come he had difficulty ruling them? Have you also wondered why Ife was a major bead trading center (like Lagos is right now) and Bini use beads royally, something not produced in their domain?

I’ll go now.

Cheers and pardon typos.

Ife was the earliest Yoruba city as you said but Benin city was before Ife.
Please stop the bullshit about Oranmiyan founding Benin. Benin existed long before Oranmiyan came.

Nobody can say for certain if Benin went to ask Ife for a king or Oranmiyan as a descendant of Oduduwa/Izoduwa the exiled Benin prince came back to forcefully take back his fathers throne.

Does it matter if beads are produced locally in Ife or Lagos? Benin was very wealthy and advanced so can buy anything it needs from anywhere.
Early Europeans traded with African natives but it doesn’t mean the Africans were superior to the Europeans becos we produced pepper or spices.

Truth is Benin conquered and ruled Yoruba during when Benin was an empire.

ariesbull:
Go and take Gelegele...sheby una oba say make them no get king....they crowned him...una no do anything

The Yoruba has Ilorin to contest for


The Igbo land is full and within the authority of Igbo

Which king? The only king in Nigeria is the Oba of Benin. All others are traditional rulers.

Nobody wants land full of rocks and dead soil. Make Igbo keep their lands and we keep ours.

ariesbull:
Go and take Gelegele first before I can engage you ...that's if the ijaw wouldn't do the second invasion..

Gelegele is uncontested.. we know who owns it and all the lands stretching to shores of Niger River.
As weak as Yoruba is they are still stronger and powerful than Biafra. With ur large numbers yet nothing for una for Nigeria. Just observers like minorities.

Saladin25:
Una never tire with this Yoruba vs Benin discussion. Based on my own research;

1. Oduduwa came from Benin and he met people in Ile-Ife before he became King. Some Kings have existed in Ile-Ife before the reign of oduduwa.

2. Not all Yoruba Kings came from Ile-Ife, the Ijebus and the Ugbos have proved that several times.

3. The Ooni is not the most powerful king in Yoruba land. The Alafin is the most powerful king, during the colonial era there are letters written by Alafin to the British where he presented himself as the number one king in Yoruba land.

4. Aside from Eko(Lagos Island), Benin Kingdom never conquered any part of Yoruba land, even Owo(a town in Ondo state) were always at war with Benin, but Benin kingdom never conquered them.

In conclusion, put this supremacy battle somewhere and let us foster peace and unity just like the way the two kings see themselves as one.

You are wrong on #4.. eastern Yoruba lands were all under Benin control. Ekiti, Owo kingdom, Ondo and Lagos were all under Benin.

Born2Breed:
The Benin's have always respected the Yoruba's as a cousin. But what did the Benin's get in return? Insult and derogatory reference to the Benin's as omo Igbo.

The old Western region the Bendel axis were insulted and deprived of regional allocations, the major resources the made the western region increase its pace of development was gotten from the Bendel area. Cocoa we contributed 35%%,Timber 50%,Rubber and Palm Oil we contributed more but what did Bendel get? We all saw what the break away of Mid Western region did to the west.

Check this thread,its always the Yorubas that derails it without verifiable claims.

You all talk about size forgetting Japan once ruled over China and Italy over Europe.

Forget the mercy part, when e set believe me you and you co-warmongering crew will be the ones begging for mercy.

Leave them let them continue with their foolish dreams. When the fight start Edo is taking back the old Midwest region.