₦airaland Forum

seunmsg:
INEC is a party to the case and they simply defended their decision to recognize the David Mark faction. That they filed this position before the court does not mean they are right and it doesn’t mean the court must accept their position.


In this case, the court has given a preservative order for all parties to cease any action until the FHC decides the matter. So, all parties including INEC are supposed to head back to the FHC and make all their arguments. And what did you guys do? You stalled that process and took the case again to the Supreme Court. You even asked for a stay of execution of the preservative order. That’s, keep us illegally in office while we stall the process till it’s too late for the FHC to decide the case due to INEC timetable.


In law, that’s an abuse of court process. You can’t get away with such nonsense. David Mark will not be recognized until the FHC rules on the matter. No matter the media noise, propaganda and blackmailing, INEC will never disobey the court order. Go back to Justice Nwite and show cause why Bala Gombe should not be declared the National Chairman. Period.

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All praise Hon Nafiu Lamidi Apapa Bala Gombe.

Peruez01:
Let her leave America, so that she won't be a beneficiary of stolen resources..
You can't criticize a nation and still be enjoying their basic amenities
Simple

We would gladly welcome her in Nigeria or she can go to Iran and nationalize

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What nonsense. She is American.

MrEar:
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Nobody is wasting your time, you atheist. You clearly enjoy this. If your time was so important you could have easily taken and lost this debate with any popular AI app trained on trillions of tokens, but instead you came here to Nairaland to argue with Christians because you assume their knowledge is limited giving you an advantage to sound intelligent.

Oh well, enjoy yourself.

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Why did you put a plus sign before your response? ? ?

Desist forthwith.

And I am not an atheist. You assume.

Finally, my discussions on these matters are from an interest in human, not mechanical thought.

Kukutente23:
Their crime was being formed from clay.
He answered in Isaiah 45! Is he still guilty or now cleared of any wrongdoing?

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But God formed them of clay, they didn't form themselves.

Stop wasting my time with sarcasm and be serious.

Kukutente23:
Anger!! It rests in the bosom of fools

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That was not anger. He has no business here.

Kukutente23:
Oh ok your problem is the narrative. Hmmm. It's a big one. I wonder why no one ever thought about the inconvenience of such narrative when they wrote it. If only it was your erudite self who wrote the bible, it would have been so flawlessly written such that no lack of logic or reasoning could ever have been spotted in it.
But I'm surprised that this is the first time you're seeing it. If you read your Bible from Genesis, you would have found the absurdity right there from that first chapter, and then you wouldn't have to travel so far into such an illogical book to see that such an episode already occurred in Exodus, the second book. God it was who wouldn't let Pharaoh yield to Moses' request which He sent Moses to request of Pharaoh. Such twisted logic. Why send a man on an errand that will prove impossible to complete because of your own interference? Why don't you just kill Pharaoh and his firstborn son from the onset instead of making a theatric of them before climaxing the drama at the Red sea?!! If only God was as logical as you!!
Unfortunately, if you had read your Bible from the beginning, you would have seen that God himself already answered your question as to why he chooses to do what he does the way he prefers and not the way you would prefer. Now go read Exodus 7 and get the answer that God himself supplied you so that you do not go about asking the sons of men to defend God in your court when he already provided his own defence. You may now carry out your sentencing most fair judge.

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This made me smile. Nicely written with a splash of humour.

I went to read Exodus 7 as you recommended. In short it says that it's all to glorify God right?

Then the Lord said to Moses, “See, I have made you like God to Pharaoh, and your brother Aaron will be your prophet. 2 You are to say everything I command you, and your brother Aaron is to tell Pharaoh to let the Israelites go out of his country. 3 But I will harden Pharaoh’s heart, and though I multiply my signs and wonders in Egypt, 4 he will not listen to you. Then I will lay my hand on Egypt and with mighty acts of judgment I will bring out my divisions, my people the Israelites. 5 And the Egyptians will know that I am the Lord when I stretch out my hand against Egypt and bring the Israelites out of it.”

Don't you think such a narcissistic reason is loathsome?

Kukutente23:
How are they innocent people? Who tried them and declared them innocent?

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What was their crime and how were the involved?

Kukutente23:
Now this is some deep shite
But will DeepSight see it?

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I have said before that this excuse could have flown if it was simply said that God took their lives and gave no reason. But once an absurd and psychotic reason is given, it is open to interrogation. In this case -

1. It is said that God was the one who instigated the census
2. He got angry over what he instigated
3. He then threw a fit over what he instigated and killed 70, 000 innocents - leaving out David who he had instigated

Be honest, this makes no sense.

And let me tell you the most important thing here. The most important thing about this line of questioning is that it is not so much questioning God, but it is questioning the absurd tales men tell.

cc: Babinski

basilico:
Add Gutenberg's invention of the printing press.The bible became widely available, translated into other languages apart from Latin, different interpretation distinct from the Papal Edicts came to the fore.
Islam is rigid. What's in the Quran can never be changed till the last day. Every command is eternal and deviation will lead to a death sentence. Those who know where it might be in error never speak publicly about it. It's drilled into the adherents from cradle to grave that it's the unchanging word of Allah.
I'll give a historical context to covering the hair and body by women. An early aide told the prophet that he had seen his wife going out uncovered ( implication - other men feasted their eyes on her). So a revelation was brought down. Women must cover themselves fully from head to toe to avoid tempting the eyes of men .Strict adherents demand full body cover today.. Saudi Arabia, Taliban, ISIS etc

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Spot on re: printing press, and many other factors. A TV01 will never avert his mind to that.

Re: covering of women, this predated Islam if I am not mistaken.

And it truly says alot about the USA and their system that they can have a man like this as president twice.

And that so many can worship him cultishly.

budaatum:
A third way to view this is, he simply understands that others believe in the resurrection and he is the Mayor of all regardless of belief, because that is what wise leaders do.

An example is the Olufon of the Orolu Kingdom. Whatever their religion, they will go church, go mosque, do Obatala, do Ogun, do Owala, and bọ'osa before market every 5 days.

The wise and knowing do not let ignorant beliefs stop them doing what they know is right and proper.

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Agreed.

ResidentSnitch:
Una sure say Trump never go full blown wackoo?

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The truth is that the signs are there. But the USA can never summon the courage to invoke the 25th Amendment.

ono:
True to some extent, Deep. But we have to look at the enabling factors (if you like, environment) that allowed this (egalitarian societies) to thrive. Now, It was "rebellion" that made Martin Luther, particularly the posting of his 95 Theses in 1517, that challenged the Catholic Church's practices, especially the sale of indulgences, leading to a significant split in Western Christianity known as the Protestant Reformation. Luther's actions made the Church look inwards and ultimately birthed the age of "enlightenment". People realised that they can read things for themselves (especially the Bible), learn and not be spoon fed by priests and Popes - and the Church leadership agreed!

My point is that whichever way you want to look at it, the Judeo-Christian background still remain the catalyst that is at the root of the freedoms and egalitarian societies that we have going for Western Civilisation as it is today. Luther was a Christian and after him, many other Christian "activists" came to the fore to lead many of the "improvements" in Christendom and in Western Societies that we are enjoying today.

In contrast, the Islamic religion has failed to "evolve" (as you rightly noted) over the centuries - and the result of their backwardness is evident to all as it is today. What I don't understand though is how we have progressives in places like the UK, France and even now I hear Scandinavian countries, all embracing the evil that is inherent in present day Islam. Although I read that it was "paid for". I guess we can't explain away everything, there some things that are better left to time to reveal.

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This is very well and soberly written and demonstrates a good grasp of history.
What is evident there is the evolution arising from conflict of views - which is natural to the development of humanity. This has little to do with the specific dictates of a particular religion.

HeatSeeker:
The reason for his anger was not explicitly stated, but common! This same story was recorded in another book of the bible and it was stated that the devil is the one who tempted David to sin. The bottom line remains that David took action he wasn't meant to and reaped the consequences for his poor decision making.

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It is still strange that you can put this on David when it clearly says God instigated it. Are you saying David could have resisted God?

HeatSeeker:
In this particular story, was the Ransome paid?

The answer to the second question has already been given in the first statement...
And the anger of the Lord stirred against Israel

Someone has to initiate the events that will trigger the punishment. For this particular case, it was David, the King who did so.

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No, it says God himself instigated David.
What was the reason for his initial anger. Even if you look for it in the preceding chapters, you will not see why.

Dtruthspeaker:
So, there are 2 different mighty God(s)? Or that God changed?
Please stop taking rubbish just because you are not able to explain a situation you do not immediately understand.

Yes, you are right that God is the All Ruling King so He does what He pleases. However, we have all seen that He always has a good reason for acting and verse 1 said so.

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That chap is on a level of intelligence, clarity and rationality that it will take you a number of lifetimes to get to, so you had better humble yourself and calm down.

GodHimself:
Options:

1. The passage is a metaphor or allegory, not meant to be read literally. It has a deeper hidden meaning.

2. Those are his people and he can kill them if he wants, like the Nigerian government killing Nigerian citizens when they "disobey".

Psalm 22:28.
In the King James Version (KJV), it reads:
"For the kingdom is the LORD'S: and he is the governor among the nations."

3. God is subject to human-like emotional reactivity like jealousy, anger, murderous rage followed by repentance.

Exodus 32:14 ►
King James Bible

And the LORD repented of the evil which he thought to do unto his people.

4. The God in the old testament is not the God Jesus referred to as Father.

John 8:44
New International Version
44 You belong to your father, the devil, and you want to carry out your father’s desires. He was a murderer from the beginning, not holding to the truth, for there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks his native language, for he is a liar and the father of lies.

Choose one.

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No. 4 seems the most viable.

Babinski:
The Bible was written by men under divine inspiration. It does not rule out the fact that men are limited by their vocabulary and also try at times to reason out things that invariably appear in their accounts. In 1 Chronicles 21 account of the same event, verse 1 stated that Satan rose up against Israel and incited David to take a census of Israel.

However 2 Samuel 24 stated that it was God that incited David because of the belief that nothing happened without the permission of God. But in the end we find out that David had a motive for the census and even Joab was against it because he knew it was not right. So just like when Eve was tricked by the serpent but had motive for eating the apple, the sin accrued to the sinner.

It is common to blame Satan for every sinful idea, just as Chronicles blamed Satan, but the sinner typically has his own independent reasons for committing the sin and that is why he has no excuse on judgment. It is a plus to David that when he saw the results of his action, he owned up and admitted he sinned rather than blame Satan, much less God for any incitement.

If David, who was in the thick of it admitted he sinned and did nit blame God, why are you trying to do so centuries later on reading the account?

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1. What was that motive of David
2. If he had a motive then why is it said that God instigated him
3. If David committed the sin, why kill 70, 000 innocents who knew nothing about it?

EKONGKING:
They are hiding the true human cost both in USA and Israel.

The liar in chief told everyone who is willing to believe in hospital lies that airpower and navy is destroyed but u see the first confirmed loss of F15 in action and goddam strait is not open still now .

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Consistently. I dont know why people are blind to this obvious fact.

Dtruthspeaker:
That is what it means to punish a person or people. The punisher gets to decide how, when and what mode of punishment he will deliver.

He can send His arnies, He can send diseases. He can send water and He can send enemies. He can send friends and He can make you make a mistake. All are within His Rights of Punishment.

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Its not only punishment here. He instigates the act he punishes.

tctrills:
Is it weird? Yes, the story is just like a few others in the bible. We don't know God's reason for all His actions but accusing the creator of life of murder is just crazy.
Hope you know that God will ultimately take all life. Death is a part of His plan.

In the case of David, I don't know the reasons of His actions.

But honestly, I think it is ok not to understand everything about God.

I will do some more learning and get back to you if I have a better explanation.

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Thanks very much.

I am looking into this too.

Someone has offered an explanation through Exodus 30:11 - 16 but its still not adding up for me because as I said to him -

DeepSight:
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Two issues here. In Exodus, God is rescuing the Israelites from Egypt and that is why he supposedly says when you count them, each is to pay the lord "a ransom for his life."

So we can see that the context was specific and different.

But even if it wasn't the second question remains: why does God instigate the census only to murder the people en mass for what he instigated?

Babinski:
The challenge for you is that you call God a God of Justice where the justice is defined from your own point of view. However, if you take it that God is indeed the Almighty God whose attributes include justice, mercy and omniscience, then you realize that anything God does is justice and the basis for your grievance collapses.

Even if humans were to attempt to sit as Appelate Judges over the matter, they do not have enough facts and knowledge to review the matter because none of them is even near omniscience.

The anger of the Lord was already burning and was both the basis for instigating the census and the resulting punishment.

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So if the anger of the Lord was already burning against them, presumably that must be for a wrong they did. Why did he have to instigate another thing himself then punish them for it?

HeatSeeker:
MTBB

@Deepsight

The census was a violation of the commandments give to the Israelites wild in the wilderness. David simply went against Yahweh's instructions and the people suffered the consequences. You can check the bible verse below for more details.

Exodus 30:11-16

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Two issues here. In Exodus, God is rescuing the Israelites from Egypt and that is why he supposedly says when you count them, each is to pay the lord "a ransom for his life."

So we can see that the context was specific and different.

But even if it wasn't the second question remains: why does God instigate the census only to murder the people en mass for what he instigated?

MaxInDHouse:
OK so you don't want people to know the truth shey?😟

But why do you guys like asking when you don't want to be enlightened?🤔

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Don't be silly. I asked. You made a comment that answered nothing. I said so. And then you said it's not meant for me.

Babinski:
Where a man kills another allegedly for God's sake, it raises several questions and such a man may be convicted for murder.

However, when God kills a man, on what basis would you question God as the creator of man? If a farmer who did not create a Hen takes one from his backyard, kills and prepares it for a meal, what Court to we take the farmer ro or what crime do we accuse him of? Of course in these days you may see misguided animal rights people that may even attack such a farmer, and other hen would call the farmer a murderer.

However, if the giver of life takes life, no one can question or accuse him. It is God that gives meaning and purpose to our lives. As the creator, God has absolute rights and power over our lives.

Of course as a hen in animal farm, you may concort your own reason for existence and even believe it as if you are sufficient unto yourself and of some importance.

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This argument could work if the so called God of Justice just took the lives simpliciter without giving reasons.

But in this case he makes clear that it is a punishment for a census. A census which he himself instigated!

How does that make sense for a God of Justice?

MaxInDHouse:
I was talking to interested individuals who may like to know why God killed the Israelites due to the blunder of their king.
So if you don't understand don't worry others will!🙂

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Leave this thread at once.

Jilo83:
Some of you don't know that Christianity is quite different from Judaism.
Abraham, Isaac,. Jacob, Moses etc practiced Judaism and were repotted in the Bible.
Jesus is the Author of new covenant. Whatever error you find in old testament has been corrected in new testament.
Love
Life
And peace

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Is it not worrisome that this is still the same God of the Bible acting this way. Is he not supposed to be the same yesterday, today and forever?

MaxInDHouse:
When God formed that nation (Israel) He didn't appoint a king to rule over them because imperfect humans could be lured into doing bad things so God chose a highpriest to lead His people in worship and a judge to lead them when it's time for judgment.

The Israelites later demanded for a king in the days of Samuel the Highpriest and prophet of God. 1Samuel 8:5
Samuel tried to right the wrong by warning them against that decision but the people insisted on having a human king instead of the arrangement of God. 1Samuel 8:10-18

So when God chose David to rule over His people it doesn't mean David was a perfect king rather to an extent humanly possible David is the best out of all imperfect humans who could rule over them.
Satan incited David against God will {1Chronicles 21:1} that is why the people (who asked for a human king) died through the hands of angels who were enforcing God's judicial decisions!

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You haven't said anything

tctrills:
Didn't you understand the chapter? What explanation are you seeking? I guess you are not seeking an explanation but you are asking us to justify God's actions right?

Well God is the giver and taker of life so if every time He takes a life, you accuse Him of murder, I really don't know what to tell you.
We are about 8 billion people on earth, we all would die one day, so you can go ahead and accuse God of their murder.

But then, let me ask you, if you created anything for yourself, and you destroy it, can any court find you guilty?
If no, why do you think God is guilty of a crime?

Kukutente23:
Simpliciti Simplicita
But I guess DeepSight has been dulled by hate for God and may not get the simple logic here

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What's wrong with a census. And notice just like with Pharaoh it's Yahweh who goes about putting the idea into David's mind in the first place before punishing him for it.
Isn't it weird that he slaughters 70, 000 innocent people for this?

Who can explain the murderous callousness here?

2 Samuel 24

1 Again the anger of the Lord burned against Israel, and he incited David against them, saying, “Go and take a census of Israel and Judah.”

2 So the king said to Joab and the army commanders[a] with him, “Go throughout the tribes of Israel from Dan to Beersheba and enroll the fighting men, so that I may know how many there are.”

3 But Joab replied to the king, “May the Lord your God multiply the troops a hundred times over, and may the eyes of my lord the king see it. But why does my lord the king want to do such a thing?”

4 The king’s word, however, overruled Joab and the army commanders; so they left the presence of the king to enroll the fighting men of Israel.

5 After crossing the Jordan, they camped near Aroer, south of the town in the gorge, and then went through Gad and on to Jazer. 6 They went to Gilead and the region of Tahtim Hodshi, and on to Dan Jaan and around toward Sidon. 7 Then they went toward the fortress of Tyre and all the towns of the Hivites and Canaanites. Finally, they went on to Beersheba in the Negev of Judah.

8 After they had gone through the entire land, they came back to Jerusalem at the end of nine months and twenty days.

9 Joab reported the number of the fighting men to the king: In Israel there were eight hundred thousand able-bodied men who could handle a sword, and in Judah five hundred thousand.

10 David was conscience-stricken after he had counted the fighting men, and he said to the Lord, “I have sinned greatly in what I have done. Now, Lord, I beg you, take away the guilt of your servant. I have done a very foolish thing.”

11 Before David got up the next morning, the word of the Lord had come to Gad the prophet, David’s seer: 12 “Go and tell David, ‘This is what the Lord says: I am giving you three options. Choose one of them for me to carry out against you.’”

13 So Gad went to David and said to him, “Shall there come on you three years of famine in your land? Or three months of fleeing from your enemies while they pursue you? Or three days of plague in your land? Now then, think it over and decide how I should answer the one who sent me.”

14 David said to Gad, “I am in deep distress. Let us fall into the hands of the Lord, for his mercy is great; but do not let me fall into human hands.”

15 So the Lord sent a plague on Israel from that morning until the end of the time designated, and seventy thousand of the people from Dan to Beersheba died. 16 When the angel stretched out his hand to destroy Jerusalem, the Lord relented concerning the disaster and said to the angel who was afflicting the people, “Enough! Withdraw your hand.” The angel of the Lord was then at the threshing floor of Araunah the Jebusite.

17 When David saw the angel who was striking down the people, he said to the Lord, “I have sinned; I, the shepherd,[c] have done wrong. These are but sheep. What have they done? Let your hand fall on me and my family.”

Tctrills, Kukutente23, TV01, SirTee15, FreeIgboho, Gabrielshow24, ono, femi4, explain.

Putindbutt:
US/Isreal are the real terrorists. After all, they created Al qaeda & Isis.

Most of Iran's strikes are retaliatory. The terrorist US/Isreal started off the war by hitting a female school where 167 young girls were murdered. Then they hit Iran's hospital, energy sites, companies, oil field, residential buildings and now universities.

How can you be attacking schools, universities?, how?. I now see why Nentayahu has been so bold in carrying out genocide in Gaza, Lebanon, Syria etc. and US keeping quiet. If US could also be committing genocide against civilians in the name of war.. Therefore both the US and Isreal are birds of a feather.

I completely support Iran to carry out aggressive retaliatory attacks against all US assets in the neighbouring countries, shoot everything down.

You have to do more than shooting down their pilots and fighter jets.

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It amazes me how you are so rational on this matter but so irrational on Nigerian affairs.

DeepSight:
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In the first two paragraphs he does use words that communicate he believes things Muslims don't believe. He calls it a holy and sacred day and talks about the power of rebirth significant to Easter, etc. All of this is against Islamic teaching.

Nonetheless as I said I like the man and that is a warm and inclusive way to relate with diversity.

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You know what cococandy. Nothing to complain about at all. In fact on consideration, that Easter message may be more well crafted than it appears.

I say this because even with the Islamic view, the period would signify certain things such as escape from death.