₦airaland Forum

Eriokanmi:
Males are endangerd species in the hands of the female folks globally and it didn't start today. Several notable men had been accused of rape and people swallowed their story hook, line and sinker. I remember the otobo girl vs pastor suleman of edo state. People carried the story for months and despite the lady openly apologising later,.many still didn't believe it never happened. They said the man of God had bribed and threatened her behind the scene. There have always been reported rape cases, (people should not misquote me), Rapists exist and need to be dealt with)but how many of such reports are actually true? Some are defamatory.

This is a year of confession among the female gender. I hope our society treats such cases with all manner of seriousness. Rape should be viewed from the perspectives of both genders. I had been raped before as a child. I felt so disgusted when the woman was doing the nonsense. I didn't understand what it was cos it was so strange to me . Till today, I didn't tell my mum about it. Anytime such is being reported by female, true or untrue, people go emotional, as if the man should be eliminated. Who will now apply the same emotion to the account of males who also report such? You can imagine the falsely accused had been lynched, as it happens in some odd societies all in the name of religion. He'd have died for nothing. How many of false accusers had ever come out to apologise sef?

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The matter is as old as Joseph and Potiphar's wife.

revelation2013:
What I think is that the church should have done is to continue to counsel both of them. And if she still refuse advise that she initiates the divorce proceedings so that the man can remarry and get someone suitable this time around.

The church should not label her a demon, that is wrong. They can also excommunicate her after the divorce so that another brother will not fall victim. But it is wrong for the church to label her a demon.

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Not only that oh, they said they are delivering her unto Satan and praying for her destruction!

How can you say you don't love Isaac? Demon!

We are praying for your destruction.

We have delivered you unto Satan.

victorazyvictor:
No wonder poverty and all the atrocities are enormous in Brazil.

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You people are so lost. Kai.

LordReed:
I don't even need it to since yours doesn't even claim the wave function is collapsed by consciousness.

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Excuse me?

Please this is the sort of thing that is worrisome. I have said at all times that the outcomes are affected by consciousness, this has been my statement. In light of that please go to my post again and read the bits I put in bold red and underlined.

I certainly hope that will do as opposed to introducing a specific requirement on what consciousness must do to the wave function.

LordReed:
My argument is the collapse of the interference pattern was not affected by consciousness and that is what this shows. The fringe visibility the paper notes is well within error rates or else it would have been significant.

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But your paper does not successfully debunk the research paper I provided which you asked me to. Frankly I didn't even need to because the results of the experiment are well known and as such you need something far stronger than that paper to properly rebut it. I could present you many other papers if you insist, but I am sure the point is proven.

LordReed:
Read this:

A two year long experimental dataset in which authors of [1] claim to find evidence of mind-matter interaction is independently re-analyzed. In this experiment, participants are asked to periodically shift their attention towards or away from a double-slit optical apparatus. Shifts in fringe visibility of the interference pattern are monitored and tested against the common sense null hypothesis that such shifts should not correlate with the participant’s attention state. We i/ show that the original statistical test used in [1] contains an erroneous trimming procedure leading to uncontrolled false positives and underestimated p-values, ii/ propose a deeper analysis of the dataset, identifying several preprocessing parameters and carefully assessing the results’ robustness regarding the choice of these parameters. We observe, as in [1], shifts in fringe visibility in the direction expected by the mind-matter interaction hypothesis. However, these shifts are not deemed significant (p > 0.05). Our re-analysis concludes that this particular dataset does not contain evidence of mind-matter interaction.
https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC6366771/

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Even this admits some effect on outcomes in the bold even if it argues they are minor. So you can't use this as a rebuttal. You need a stronger rebuttal.

LordReed:
I think our disagreement can be resolved by you linking a scientific paper stating that the Double Slit Experiment had its results due to human consciousness. I'll wait.

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Before dropping a first link (and I may drop others) I want you to appreciate two elementary things which it does not seem to me that you appreciate. I dont know if you followed the progress of the experiment or you just read somewhere some conclusions about it. But a long time ago I have watched a documentary which showed its development step by step and in that documentary it is clear that conscious observation was seen to interfere with outcomes. The scientists then went so far as to step away from the experiment and replace direct observation with detectors and still the same results occurred. The point being that so long as there was a conscious being attempting to observe, either directly or indirectly (through detectors) the outcome was affected. This is why I think that your pointing to detectors is not only irrelevant but shows that perhaps you dont know how they arrived at detectors in the first place. It was in a bid to try to see if the outcomes would be different after direct observation had already altered outcomes.

The second point you miss is elementary. Conscious observation could be direct or indirect. For example, I can stand physically present to watch an event. That's direct. I can deploy CCTV t record it. That's indirect. Neither case changes the factor of a conscious being observing. This is why I find the distinction you are attempting to make tiresome and irrelevant.

Now, please have a look here -

"A double-slit optical system was used to test the possible role of consciousness in the collapse of the quantum wavefunction. The ratio of the interference pattern's double-slit spectral power to its single-slit spectral power was predicted to decrease when attention was focused toward the double slit as compared to away from it. Each test session consisted of 40 counterbalanced attention-toward and attention-away epochs, where each epoch lasted between 15 and 30 s. Data contributed by 137 people in six experiments, involving a total of 250 test sessions, indicate that on average the spectral ratio decreased as predicted (z=-4.36, p=6 x 10(-6)).

Another 250 control sessions conducted without observers present tested hardware, software, and analytical procedures for potential artifacts; none were identified (z=0.43, p=0.67). Variables including temperature, vibration, and signal drift were also tested, and no spurious influences were identified. By contrast, factors associated with consciousness, such as meditation experience, electrocortical markers of focused attention, and psychological factors including openness and absorption, significantly correlated in predicted ways with perturbations in the double-slit interference pattern. The results appear to be consistent with a consciousness-related interpretation of the quantum measurement problem. (C) 2012 Physics Essays Publication. [DOI: 10.4006/0836-1398-25.2.157]"

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/258707222_Consciousness_and_the_double-slit_interference_pattern_Six_experiments

There is nothing to conclude from this but the fact that conscious observation has an effect on outcomes in our reality and this more than strongly shows that your much touted "object permanence" has no root in science and that the likelihood that we live in a programmed simulation directed by consciousness is far greater.

LordReed:
I define reality as the shared space which contains all our shared experiences and all the objects of those experiences. It will also include objects which we will eventually experience even though we are currently not experiencing them yet. You will note that by definition this does not escape solipsism and that is because I don't even give it any credence because to me there is no way to prove we AREN'T a brain in a vat. However, within the bounds of our experience this foundational definition suffices to exclude things that are not real. It also means you will have to prove that we ARE brains in a vat or any such solipsistic framework.

It also highlights the difference between reality and VIRTUAL reality. The key difference being that shared space only exists as a construct that is distinct from the space in which our "real" shared experiences take place. Another being that VR can never reach the fidelity of the "real" space because of constrains that we will further explore when we talk about simulation.

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Noted. Lets move on to your response to the other paragraphs one at a time. Lets try the double slit experiment.

Ijaya123:
Tell us exactly how much the government has borrowed?

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I am not your employee. The facts are in the public domain.

Ijaya123:
But you didn't mention that you were borrowing forty naira to maintain that five naira all those times.

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Just as you haven't mentioned that strangely after removing subsidy, this govt has proceeded to borrow like never before.

Besides, I was referring to general inflation and not the price of PMS.

Jakumo:
I was not even accurate in my ranting because one of the most famous UFO incidents was witnessed by school children in Zimbabwe, along with their teachers, in 1994.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q8pymWSKAPQ

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Exactly. Famous incident. Watching some of the teachers recount it in their old age gives one goose pimples.

Jakumo:
This is very true. The only word that makes sense to a hungry man is "food".

This largely explains why there is zero curiosity about alien life in most of Africa.

The only word that computes in the brain of a hungry man is "food."

Even if an alien flying saucer landed in a typical Africa town, nobody would bother to go and look at the vehicle UNLESS it is unloading FOOD.

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Haba, take am easy on ya kwantiri-men

Nwaikpe:
In their country, they don't know hunger.

Only those who don't want to work beg.

Hunger is a thing for your country.

In your country, you work to eat and survive.
In their country, the system addresses hunger. When they work, they work to thrive.
They work to discover aliens, extraterrestrial life, and UFOs.


That is why, in 100 years, your people will be struggling to survive, while their children will be interacting with beings and technologies beyond our human space.

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Clearly, you haven't visited that country.

Wickedfact:
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Was power situation not bad when you lot were begging for the 2nd Nigeria Bridge?

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Grow up and stop this nonsense. Not everything is politics and tribalism. No one can deny the primacy of the power problem. N15 Trillion on a needless road is not more critical than power.

Adakintroy:
All the government in history Has met steady rice. No government not even in u.s has been able to reverse price. Things go up. Not down.

But that's beside the point. Many of you won't be able to afford stuff even if it drops. Many were screaming during Jonathan era. Same with buhari. But same Nigeria's are saying those were better days. When milk was 10kobo. Those who could not take milk still could not take milk. Think about it. At 10kobo.

It's all about affordable at a personal level. Go work harder. Many of you are too weak to be called nigerians. Nigeria is not for weakling.

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You need medical attention.

Adakintroy:
Many of you no go know if economy good cuz you not active. Since food price drop drastically non of you have said anything. But if he go up tinubu go collect. Dollar has been on the steady decline. Like I said if you have been economically active you will be benefiting from all this.

The truth is many of you are not part of the economic system. Good or no good you won't be able to tell properly

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If I meet prices at five naira, make them fifty naira and then successfully reduce them to thirty five naira, have I done well?

erad:
Well...

Some people would rather there are private beaches there.

Funny country.

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Some people would rather that priorities such as the dreadful power situation were attended to rather than this project which is in no way critical, save to make urgent money for Chagoury and BAT.

LordReed:
Sorry if I came off as condescending, that was not my intention. And the pun was supposed to be light-hearted jab, no offence meant.

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None taken whatsoever I tell you. Its just an old thing on this board. You are even polite. I remember some posters like Martian and Tudor.

LordReed:
Lemme tackle this bit first.

I have no qualms in seeing humans generally as being analogous to the men in the cave. Why? Because we don't know all there is to know about the universe as a baseline therefore not everything would be clear to us. Then add to that, our brains have limited processing capacities. That is easily provable. I remember the basketball and the bear experiment where people are asked to focus on a group of people passing around a basketball and told to count how many passes were made. At the end they are asked if they also noticed a man in a bear suit who shuffle dances behind the group passing th basketball. Most people don't and would even deny such thing occurred until they playback the video and quite clearly there is a man in a bear suit shuffle dancing. Our brain makes these shortcuts to keep us going even with its limited capacity so indeed we cannot grasp all the information we receive all at once. But we have now mitigated some of these hortcomings with our progress in science and technology so we don't have to rely on only our limited brains and senses.

However I think the allegory more properly describes people like you and others who see these shadows and see all sorts of monstrous things which could be explained down the line as nothing of such even if at the time there isn't enough information. You more readily leap to these fantastical explanations for the shadows. In time past we thought it was the gods hurling thunder and lightning in the sky. Today we know that isn't the case. Why then should we continue to behave like the ancients who didn't have what we have in terms of science and technology. Why can't we channel our energy to properly finding and understanding these shadows, these missing bits of information which would clarify what we are seeing. I no longer like to leap to any such fantastical explanations since I deconstructed my previous faith so maybe it is just me.

In conclusion, saying the world is illusory just because we don't have all the information is just plain wrong. We can both acknowledge the objectivity of the world around us and our limited capacity to perceive it without devolving into caveman (pun intended) ideology.

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Thanks for this.

However -

1. You have a gravely wrong perception of Platos allegory. It was specifically addressing the idea that we dwell in a world of imperfect forms which are reflections of real and perfect forms. Nonetheless I hear your spin on it as I believe we are entitled to do so for any parable or allegory. You are entitled to your spin even if it is not what Plato was saying. If it was, there would be nothing profound about it.

2. Keep at the back of your mind in these discussions that I remain agnostic on existential matters.

3. Sometimes I tire of the high horse materialists tend to climb and the way they tend to mock everyone and every view which suggests something more to reality than matter. Your caveman pun at the end is tiresome in this regard.

4. Citing Plato was at all events a mere analogy. Let's move on to the other points.

SisterAnn:
Well, it's good to be proud of your country, but I'm not proud of Nigeria.

No justice, no equity, weak institutions, tribalism, religious intolerance, insecurity, poor economy and hypocritical citizens.

Nigeria is a banana republic by all standards!

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I wish I could disagree but sadly I can't.

Kobojunkie:
I cant see what you see!🥱🥱

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You quoted what you quoted and can't see it? Na wah. No worries.

SisterAnn:
Who nor know who big pass am is still a child.
It's a saying in my village.

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And an apt saying too, Sister Wicked Ann.

I just find it a tad sad that we have a nation, govt and leadership that could be talked down at, bullied and kicked around as though it was some tiny banana republic.

Kobojunkie:
Oh, do help me see it please!🥱🥱🥱

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". . . . of perfect abstract ideas/forms that exist in what he regards as eternal, transcendent reality: the mind. . . ."

Look at the words you have used here. Abstract. Eternal. Transcendental. If you can't see it here, there's nothing I can do.

Kobojunkie:
1. I disagree! Plato was not particularly spiritual, and his Theory of Forms was meant to explain how physical objects are imperfect representations, changing copies of perfect abstract ideas/forms that exist in what he regards as eternal, transcendent reality: the mind.

2. An allegory is not meant as a free-for-all, a platform on which to express your every delusion. It is meant to be focused and limited in interpretation. And this particular focus of this particular allegory is not on what you term spiritual but on the assessment of reality by those alive in it, not spiritual mumbo jumbo. If you pay close attention, those who subscribe to spiritual mumbo jumbo are represented by the prisoners stuck in the cave— the blind, ignorant ones who, because of their deluded state, refuse that which amounts to reality.

3. You thinking it is egotistical is a you problem, not a me problem. I seek to switch focus to my response as I should, and that is all. 🥱🥱

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I am surprised you can't see the contradictions in your own post. Anyway, we agree to disagree.

SisterAnn:
It should have been without any deal nah!

Didn't Nigeria do deals with Britain to assist them in the Nigeria civil war?

Tinubu should have rejected whatever deal and let's see if Trump would not muscle his arse.

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Oh definitely Trump would have muscles him. Right on that.

Haydens:
That's the only thing the clueless one knows how to do and how he bargains.

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It was obvious there would be behind the scenes dealing from the beginning. Certainly with both such characters as Trump and BAT.

Haydens:
Simply put; Nigeria exchanged hands maybe Theanubu pledge to be giving them oil for many years.

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You are close to the truth!

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End o the day, deals will be done by wheeler dealers. That was always gonna be the case between BAT and Trump.

Racoon:
For you personal safety, you bought a new presidential Cadillac, presidential yatch and presidential jet. Then even going to service them abroad despite the rising costs of maintenance.

Now for the already beleaguered army you are buying worn out helicopters for armed insurgency? What kind of wickedness is that? Bambiallah life in the midst of plenty. Awoof they pain belle

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This man is certainly the most despised president in the history of Nigeria. I am not sure even Abacha was this despised.

He is a curse to this land.