₦airaland Forum

Dear Inesqor,

I thank you for your very well written response, and I did very carefully read every single line you wrote. I must say however, that whilst in terms of eloquence it was one of the best write-ups I have ever seen from you – sadly – I disagree with almost every single word contained therein. In saying so, I must very quickly state the pith of my disagreement – the life-view you have set up therein is – on close inspection – one that renders life itself entirely purposeless and meaningless.

I must further state very quickly two things in brief:

(1) There seems to be no serious basis for your firm rejection of the possibility of reincarnation as commonly understood except for the fact of your conviction in the bible and such scripture as Hebrews 9:27 - and this leads me to conclude that your strenuous rejection of commonly understood reincarnation is thus mainly biblically motivated and -

(2) It is a tempting thing to do; to create fantastical ideas of reality simply to suit one’s preconceived beliefs. Someone once told me that the mere fact that an idea appears outlandishly exotic does nothing to render it true. I must be direct in stating that your thesis above appears as just that to me: a thesis that renders life inherently purposeless and meaningless – and which has been created on account of your determined rejection of commonly understood re-incarnation – which rejection is biblically motivated.

I need hardly point out that we have had long discussions in the past regarding whether or not there are allusions to such commonly understood reincarnation in the bible or not. We best leave that aside: as I recall, it proved a most ill-tempered discussion. It would seem more sensible to me – to ruminate together on the reality that we share, and see whether that which you advance is an idea that could sit well with any strand of meaningfulness or purpose in a human – or even super-human – context. This is what I propose to do.

InesQor:
First off, I believe reincarnation in its popular form presents God as a helpless spectator of the human tragedy. I believe in a sovereign God who takes his time and purpose in the execution of plans, may not be rushed by trifle wishes, is not bound by an impersonal law of karma and isn't waiting for reincarnation to carry out purification on people.

How is this sir? How does reincarnation as presently understood present God as a helpless spectator of human tragedy? I think that beyond creating fanciful ideas of reality you really really need to take a very strong and close look at the ideas that you are advancing. Let us stop and understand carefully: the very idea of karmic reincarnation envisages a God who by the karmic law has set out a just cycle of life in which every being advances and purifies itself under the government of natural karmic laws. There are no terms on which this precept can be described as inferring God being a “helpless spectator of human tragedy.” This is in stark contradiction of that which karmic law obviously infers – and such a shocking inference from you is exactly what I deplore: it renders it obvious that you are indeed desperately seeking to refute commonly understood reincarnation even at the cost of commonsense.

In us humans, popular beliefs on reincarnation may tend to cause a detached stand to crime, theft and other social plagues, since they are normal debts to be paid by the victims; contingent on their prior lives. I digress.

Yes, I understand you here: however I will only add that the mature mind should rather consider the precept as a precept of justice – and not a precept of absolution of wrong.

For those without the patience for a lot of text:

I think of reincarnation like a man who wears a heavy perfume on a garment, hangs it and exits the room. You enter the room and as you walk around, you pick up the same garment by choice and you wear it. You smell the perfume, you perceive tobacco, you see a woman's hair in the fabric, notice an ink stain in the pocket, etc and now you can "share" the former wearer's deeds and experiences without the clutter of their personal identity (as if it was his soul). A woman sees you in the coat and she falls in love with you because she loves how you look in it (influence). Someone like her had also fallen in love with the previous wearer for same reasons (past-life-experience). You wear this until you have to leave the room, and the next person picks it up and wears it too. Now imagine it's not just a coat, but also other garments - the spirit or influence or attitude, so to say - of the former person. That's my view on reincarnation; a sharing of experiences, memories and influences without passing on any permanent identity e.g. a soul.

In the first instance I would have to ask exactly why you have been forced to reach out so far to derive this understanding of reincarnation? Is it because your understanding of your bible is at variance with commonly understood reincarnation? Have you therefore sought to create an understanding of reincarnation that could rhyme with your biblical precept of one lifetime per soul?

My dear, if that is the case, be done with such. Because there is no precept of an eternal soul that could possibly warehouse any idea of a single lifetime – absolutely none. To the extent that a soul is said to be eternal – or at any event to survive this lifetime – then we are already talking about a soul that experiences different lifetimes already – whether in a body or not. At all events, this is not the pith of that which I wish to complain about. In your extracted above – I complain as follows –

1. How does the thesis you set out above serve to improve and mature souls? If every soul simply comes once into the room – and picks up influences left there by other souls, and then leaves same influences and then exits the room – what value does each soul derive from entering the room? What personal improvement?

2. Most importantly, why exactly would you conceive of reincarnation in this convoluted fashion which leaves nothing tangible in terms of the experiencing for each soul to call his own?

3. Do you realize that this thesis of yours is actually in contradiction to the very idea of the eternity of the soul? For if indeed the soul is eternal, whence cometh it, and where does it go, before this life, and after this life. Do you realize that your thesis amounts to annihilating the eternity of souls and sustaining only the eternity of disembodied and soul-less experiences – experiences being fed by a procession of finite souls coming into existence – feeding off them, leaving them, and going out of existence. This renders the soul meaningless in eternity.

Is your alternative – namely that each sould will leave the room and thence proceed to be judged and dwell in a “heaven” or “hell” more plausible to you than commonly understood reincarnation?

4. Commonly understood reincarnation is cohesive to the extent that it envisages souls improving on their nature through the karmic cycle lifetime after lifetime. Do you realize that this thesis of yours is in stark and destructive contradistinction to that to the extent that it could envisage no process of maturity for souls in the course of time. Does it occur to you that processes of maturity are self- evident everywhere in nature – from the formation of stars to the life of seeds and plants. Do you realize that your thesis flings away any process of maturity for souls over time?

The question then, is that if there is no permanent element but all are subject to change, what re-incarnates according to the dictates of the impersonal karma?

This is a huge and flawed leap. You have wrongly concluded that there is no permanent element. Can you substantiate this?

You are surely aware that energy is neither created nor destroyed but only changes form. Permanence is firmly encoded in this alone.

The Buddha replied:
He explained that karma is what is passed on from one life to another, like a lighted candle lighting up another one without the transfer of essence from the first candle to the next. This is a rebirth without the transfer of self from person to person, and like my analogy, influence and the experience of illumination has been passed along in a "commonwealth" form.

Very simple – and I think you have altogether misconceived it inorder to suit your biblical leanings. That which is referred to as being transferred is the karma – which of course is not a being in it self and thus which does not contain “soul” or “self.” However the bearer of the karma is indeed a being.

The Buddhist concept of rebirth is very clear on this – and no sir – it does not rhyme with that which you are attempting to force it to rhyme with – your biblical leaning.

This should set you straight –

Rebirth in Buddhism is the doctrine that the evolving consciousness (Pali: samvattanika-viññana)[1][2] or stream of consciousness (Pali: viññana-sotam,[3] Sanskrit: vijñāna-srotām, vijñāna-santāna, or citta-santāna) upon death (or "the dissolution of the aggregates" (P. khandhas, S. skandhas)), becomes one of the contributing causes for the arising of a new aggregation. The consciousness in the new person is neither identical nor entirely different from that in the deceased but the two form a causal continuum or stream.
In traditional Buddhist cosmology these lives can be in any of a large number of states of being including the human, any kind of animal and several types of supernatural being (see Six realms). Rebirth is conditioned by the karmas (actions of body, speech and mind) of previous lives; good karmas will yield a happier rebirth, bad karmas will produce one which is more unhappy. The basic cause for this is the abiding of consciousness in ignorance (Pali: avijja, Sanskrit: avidya): when ignorance is uprooted, rebirth ceases. One of the analogies used to describe what happens then is that of a ray of light that never lands.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rebirth_(Buddhism)

Inesqor – in the above you can see that it is far from true to suggest as you do that in the Buddhist view of rebirth – there is no surviving element of the previous “self” involved. That is absolutely a false representation of the Buddhist view my friend.

How I understand this is that, one who does a deed or has an influence and passes on from this life, the deed or karma related to the experience hangs in this life waiting for a similar entity (candle to be lighted) to do a similar deed or have a similar influence that will buy back the potential karma that has been waiting. BAM! He/she shows up, and they get the karma they "deserve" [this is what I referred to as a tendency to absorb some influence over another]. ALTHOUGH it's a different soul and different body, but the karma is absolute. The intangible human experience and its related influence is shared, reincarnated across lives.

You cannot even intelligibly use the word “karma” if you are talking about different souls. That would violate both the very definition of Karma as well as the justice of God which both you and I believe in.

Here, it was the karmic experiences and results of Elijah that hung in the temporal, waiting for one who would attract that influence. John the Baptist showed up like a candle, and got illuminated. There are bound to be observed similarities, because John would share ELijah's memories and deeds. However, not his soul.

Believe what you will: we have debated this before – and each person may interprete this as he pleases. What however is not in doubt is that for the Jews to have asked Jesus that question, they must have conceived of a precept of reincarnation which involved the incarnation of a soul in another time. But no need for us to debate this point: as I am not basing my disputations on anything in the bible anyway.

Ecclesiastes 9:11
I have seen something else under the sun: The race is not to the swift or the battle to the strong, nor does food come to the wise or wealth to the brilliant or favor to the learned; but[b] time and chance happen to them all[/b].

In the above, I agree with the teacher; in the passage of time, influences from the pool of human experiences chance upon human lives and illuminate [/i]them.

I trust you are not attempting to read this passage in such a manner as to declare karma non-existent, are you? For your Lord Jesus himself stated that “whatsoever a man soweth, the same shall he reap.” The wisdom in Ecclesiastes is simply a pointer to the fact that the factors that lead to our destinies are not always such as we think.

I believe one is not punished unless they are conscious of the punishment. There is no refining advantage to a punishment where the punished does not know they are being punished, and what they are punished for, as taught in Neo reincarnation. I see it as unjust and impractical that one is punished for that which they do not even know or remember. The Yoruba beliefs also state that one forgets their ayanmo, but in that case there is only one shot at life to decipher the mystery then return home. Of what use is it to have multiple shots at life when each time one does not know what exactly they are being punished for? How can one strive to improve to a better standard without knowing the previous standard that one failed to attain?

Now this is something I’d like to spend a lot of time on: unfortunately I am pressed for time (valentine duties calling. . . ) however let me put it very simply: as each soul travels through time, its karmic experiences leave an imprint on its nature as it evolves. This imprint is what is critical – it serves to change the nature or inclination of the soul – and that nature is what is observed as the soul’s natural tendency in its next incarnations.

If you conceive even slightly of eternity, you will immediately realize that no soul can in a finite realm contain or consciously apprehend the full eternity of its past or even present. Therefore all that registers within it is the imprint which has defined its present nature. That is what continuously defines every being – the totality of its past. And this is achieved through the working of eternal karmic cycles. Conscious remembrance is not that which achieves this. The imprint left on the soul by its experiences is what achieves this.

The way reincarnation is taught now, it has had billions of years of impotence and yet mankind is morally unimproved historically! What suggests that it will ever work?

CAPITALLY FALSE. Mankind’s moral compass has improved a great deal with time as any student of history will tell you. The mere development of concepts such as human rights and democracy is a testament to that – not to speak of the gradual extinction of a great many abominable practices.

Also, reincarnation in different bodies across time proposes the nihilism of materialism, which I do not believe in. I believe there is purpose to existence, as observed by design in nature. Here, we are made to believe that each individual person exists in a meaningless personal life, and each life is absorbed into the final impersonal reality. If they say each individual person is a cipher and the Impersonal Divine is the only [i]absolute reality at an infinite reference point, then even the entire trajectory of the soul is meaningless.[i]

Actually it is your thesis that infers such meaninglessness and not commonly understood reincarnation.

Need to say much more, but pressed for time.

InesQor:
Glad you like it!
LOL Yes, and I was once, or yet will be phxc, right?
Yes indeed I think it is a remarkable story. I was hoping you in particular would find the thread! But no, it was written by a man called Andy Weir, as I have indicated. I don't know anything else about him except that he wrote this story here http://galactanet.com/oneoff/theegg_mod.html and I was intrigued when I read it last year.

Wow. Do you know you just explained my personal view using other / more succinct words? I also personally DO NOT believe that souls reincarnate from body to body across time.

How I'd have said it is this:

You know how humans benefit from the ecosystem, in natural cycles; we impact on the system and it influences us in turn. We eat plants, we eat animals and they eat us, and at the end we die and become part of that same system, the plants feed on us right back. Different plants though, and different animals. Not the exact same one we ate or were eaten by. In an endless loop (for "eternity" as it appears to us; maybe to God its a finite process), on and on it goes. That is for our bodies.

I believe for our souls too, as we grow in experience, we interact with other souls too, from other "times" in eternity and "places" in space. Whenever you do a deed, make a statement, "live a life", what you do is you contribute a certain amount of influence on the moment and the outcome, and it wells up in a "pool" of human experience. Like inside this "egg". That is like how your natural body interacts with the ecosystem.

The same way your body eats a plant that another specie of yours decayed to feed; our souls absorb situations, memories, connections, cases, impulses, ideas, beliefs, fears, faith, will, intellect, innovation, love, hatred, dreams, all forms of non-palpable change that those who have "gone before us" left behind, and release that which those who will "come after" us will require.

Now, the same way people choose what they eat and how they treat their bodies; some souls are more inclined to "absorb" more from the pool than others. And some are more inclined to absorb more of a kind of memory or impulse than others (thus labelled "right" and "wrong" impulses).

I don't believe in a reincarnation of souls. I believe in a reincarnation of human experiences, within only one single shot at life.

Now, that is "recycling" for the body, and "recycling" for the soul. I believe the spirit goes right back to a similar "pool", which is a pool inside God. That process (for the spirit) is the "judgment" (that is God "choosing what he will eat or absorb", just like how your bodies and souls do).

What do you think?

Is there any particular reason why you do not believe in the possibility of a soul re-incarnating across time in different bodies? Is that a stance you draw from the bible or do you derive it from your ruminations on the nature of reality?

Is there anything in reality that suggests to you that reincarnation in different bodies across time is impossible or inconceivable?

Cheers.

justcool:
Dear Deepsight. This is just in order not to let an unhealthy fascination about personalities arise. My faith lies in my absolute and unshakable conviction in the Truthfulness of the Grail Message. And I am always willing to discus anything declared in the Grail message, which places only God on the pedestal and not other personalities.

I hear you. It's just natural to feel uncomfortable when observing a preference on anothers part not to discuss certain things. But no matter.

justcool:
Always bear in mind that we talking about the Germanic peoples, not necessarily that political nation called Germany

This is quite simple! Perhaps you didn’t grasp my explanation. So let me explain in the way of analogies.
I can say today that Deepsight is pursuing a nobler course than Lucifer is doing. Does this mean than Deepsight is called while Lucifer is not. Does this mean that Deepsight, who is a human spirit, stood higher than Lucifer in spiritual abilities? Lucifer remains the strongest spirit in subsequent creation; even after he failed, he remaind far stronger than any human spirit in might and abilities.

I repeat: Calling and spiritual abilities does not immune one from failing. When a called one, one endured with spiritual abilities, fail, the failure is often more catastrophic. Because he will employ his spiritual abilities in his evil works thereby create a strong evil.

It might terribly surprise you when I tell you that among the 12 apostle, Judas had more talents than all of them put together. Yet it was him that allowed Lucifer to win over him through his intellect.

During the time Judas was secretly betraying Jesus, so many other people who weren’t among the 12 apostles pursed nobler courses than Judas. Does this make them called instead of Judas?

Peter denied Jesus three times and almost all His followers ran abandoned Him and denied Him, while a stranger helped Him carry the cross. Does this make this stranger more called than the 12 apostles?

The British pursued a nobler cuorse, hence the Germans failed in thier calling worse than the British did. But this does not mean that the British stood higher in terms of spiritual abilities at the time of the war.

Well you already answered this question. You do not speak German. My brother speaks excellent German; perhaps I should let you talk to him.

And it is not only the language that is refined enough to capture most refined ideas, but language whose words most closely unite with certain resonant forces in creation. This will take us too far away from the topic. But I may I remind you that sounds(words) can unlock certain mysteries and set certain forces in motion. This doesn’t even stray too far from the realm of mundane science.

Okay, point taken.

The above adds nothing. The motive behind banning marriage to Jews is actually noble, if you have carefully read my earlier submission. Prior to the coming of Christ, in the old testament, when the Jews were still been prepared for the mission of Christ, marriage to foreigners was also strongly forbidden among them. The spiritual prompting behind this is to keep the physical bodies pure, from degenerating through wrong genetic mixing. Germans felt a great urge to keep their physical bodies pure.

If this really is true, then such an inclination or prompting surely would have led them to seek to keep themselves genetically pure from all other races - and not just the Jewish? Why did this prompting lead to such a fixation against the Jews.

Are the Jews not also people of strong spiritual "abilities".

I find it hard to accept that it was in reality a noble prompting in their intuition that led to the despicable discrimination against the Jews. Indeed, such an idea, I might add, is actually a very dangerous precept which could lead to very harmful discrimination - as occurred against the Jews in Nazi Germany.

Indeed, i may say that it remains a precept that is intrinsically very dangerous to the social mind and carries the potential to disrupt inter-racial harmony.

Seeking out the spiritually highest wherever you see the worst form of darkness show that you took my words on the face level without trying to grasp the principle. To evaluate the spiritual capability of a people what you need to examine is their works. Whether be it works of evil or good. A people that are not spiritually strong in might and abilities could not have faced the might of the whole world. Another people may do more evil, but look at the manner through which they did, the knowledge and strength of character applied, you will see who has more spiritual abilities.

If you examine the works they did. You will easily notice sternness, discipline, organization, punctuality, efficiency, might, courage, inventiveness, and etc. These are just abilities that are neither good nor bad, they are neutral. They can be applied in achieving good things and can equally be applied in achieving evil. But either way, they require the strength of the spirit.

I very much doubt that these abilities are unique to the Germanic peoples alone? Or are they?

^^ Anyway let me just clarify that I respect your decision on that. I just feel sometimes disturbed wherever there is a reluctance to discuss any aspect of one's faith or knowledge. I found my friend's refusal to give me his copy of Past Eras very odd indeed. At all events, he remains my best friend till today. I shared with him some of your writings on this forum and you have a giant fan in him!

justcool:
Of course through a person with a name. But I do not perceive that it is necessary or appropriate to disclose the name he bore on earth here. All I can tell you is that he departed this earth and journeyed back to his home in the primordial spiritual plane in 1968.

The very same friend of mine who many years ago first introduced me to the Grail Message tried and tried for many years to keep his copy of "Past Eras re-awakened" away from me. I have no idea why he would do that. But I find the level of secrecy attached to certain revelations around the person of, work of, or associates of the authour to be very disturbing. I think i have tried to discourage this with you before.

Could we really believe that the Germans were a specially prepared "called" people standing at the highest level spiritually? Consider these -

The British. Having already acceded that the British pursued a nobler cause than the Germans did - and in particular regard to the scale and nature of the German war effort - is it not tenable to state that the British in fact stood much higher spiritually - and as a people were indeed "called" and lived up to their calling?

Language. I do not speak German, but my perspective is that when we speak of a language being prepared for truth we are going to be speaking about a language which is able to capture the most refined ideas and which has provision for the most fine of hair-splitting distinctions in concepts. If this is the case, can we really state that the German language was indeed the most suitable in this regard? Does it for example best French in this regard? If it doesn't, on what can we really ground the idea that German was a specially prepared language in that regard.

The cause. The cause to which the Germans devoted themselves can be said to be a manifestly ugly cause: the least that can be said about it is that it was eminently self-centred. This cannot be compared to the exertions of the Allies - particularly Britain. Now we must note that although Hitler was the driving centre of all this, he was by no means alone - he rose to power on the beack of massive popular support and some of the legislations that he pushed through such as the laws which seized Jewish rights to citizenship and banned marriage to jews - were hugely popular. This shows a rather dark-minded population that I find very difficult to accept as being the highest in terms of spirituality. It seems terribly opposed to the concept of spiritual height to attempt to point to probably the darkest and most violent set of people - genocidal murderers of millions of men - as the highest race spiritually. You will recall that Pastor AIO had stated, and I repeat it - that teh principle you deploy will lead us to seek out the spiritually highest wherever we see the worst form of darkness prosperring.

justcool:
Hence the primodial lion was linked to the earth.

Through whom please? Is there a name of a person?

Justool, many thanks. I have a great many questions, but will try to streamline them into just a few. However before i do so, can you clarify for me who exactly the lion you refer to was?

Does it not trouble you that a mission said to be planned and prepared by God for millenia could culminate in such spectacular failure - particularly with reference to people said to be called - and the disastrous impact their activities actually have in the end - [i]the unspeakable evi[/i]l? Do you not find this rather unsettling with regard to the power and will of God?

Many thanks.

Very interesting takes from Joagbaje and Buguzee. Agbajes take should very much interest biblical scholars. So the war was a fulfillment of Jewish specific prophecy?

Interesting angle u got there, Buguzee, on karma and colonization.

Well let justcool justcomment on justthese

Interesting . . . .



HITLER AND THE OCCULT

The Nazi party grew out of several occult groups that sprang up in the late 19th century as a reaction to the advanced materialism and technology of the era[citation needed]. These groups spoke of the coming of a new Messiah that would save Germany[citation needed]. Young Adolf Hitler developed the notion that perhaps he was the chosen one to save the German people.

The political parties created in the wake of the country's defeat in World War I combined nationalistic sentiment and occultist practices to forge an image of a superior German people. Hitler's imprisonment after the failed 1923 Munich Beer Hall Putsch would make him a national hero for his defense of a strong German state, convincing him that he was the Messiah who could save Germany.

Hitler appropriated Christian religious symbols such as the Spear of Destiny and the Holy Grail for his own purposes. He adopted the swastika from Hinduism among many other Sanskrit terms and symbols. The symbol of the Swastika represents the Sun, and also the Wheel of Life turning. The original symbol turns clockwise. The Nazi one turns backwards. The four arms of the original Swastika represent the Four Vedas. The swastika is also the symbol for peace and harmony, as in Buddhism, Jainism and Taoism. It decorates most Hindu homes and temples. Adolf Hitler's rise was the product of forces and events connecting him, his associates and the occult. Was Hitler influenced by supernatural ideas or was he just the embodiment of pure hate and evil? Examine the importance of symbols of the occult, religion and astrology to Hitler's concept of world domination.

In the conclusion, after the author Dusty Sklar has pointed out that Hitler's suicide happened at the night of April 30/May 1, which is Walpurgis Night, the narrator continues: "With Hitler gone, it was as if a spell had been broken". Then Joachim von Ribbentrop's infamous statement of his continued subservience to Hitler at the Nuremberg Trials is taken as final evidence of Hitler's "occult power": ("Even with all I know, if in this cell Hitler should come to me and say 'Do this!', I would still do it.".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hitler_and_the_Occult

HMMMMMMMMMM! Justcool please comment!

plaetton:
Hmmm.
So Aburashim is another Jesus.
na wa.

Please let us not make the thread about his personality. Such a tendency will be the fastest way to ensure that justcool will justgo. He, justifiably, does not feel it is right to focus energies on personalities.

However as he makes his explanations, he will of necessity make references to the idenity of Mr. Abd Ru Shin. I can only plead that you do not focus on such references and let us focus on the broader story as it affects humanity. I say this because the issue of Abd Ru Shin's idenity is one that has been battered to death already between justcool and myself, and there is no point going back to that.

In this instance,I wonder what you mean by spiritual significance and imperative.

I generally believe that physical phenomena are reflections or manifestations of occurences in an eternal or intangible reality. Its just my personal view. I want to know what spiritual factors or necessities triggered the physical happenings that we saw as the war.

I tell you, that war was something else.

Do consider war to be anything other than man's innate impulse to acquire and control?

Depends.

On a meta-physical or philosphical level, I would say that there will always be an eternal duality between light and dark, positive and negative - as eternal self-existent principles. That in itself presupposes a possible deeper connotation of war.

It is well documented that Hitler and his Nazis were deeply into the occult. Is that the spiritual significance refered to ?

Could be, i don't know. But let justcool comment on this.

Now, i need to be very clear that this thread for me is about the spiritual meaning and imperative of the war - it is not about the personality of the German who wrote the Grail Message - its just that it is probably impossible to discuss this issue (from justcool's standpoint) without alluding to him - nevertheless it is the overall spiritual happening that i seek to understand - with or without reference to that authour.

Justcool's further explanation -
Like I said earlier, the Germans were specially prepared for the reception of the Grail Message. Even their language was carefully guided and prepared until it flourished to a language good enough to convey the truth. In a way, one can say that they were chosen. But this being chosen has nothing to do with favoritism. People are chosen based on their development, God do not chose people based on favoritism, He chooses only people who posses the necessary soil for the mission. Thus at the time that the messager was ready to incarnate, the Germans provided the most suitable soil for His incarnation.

But darkness, always struggle against Truth bringers, and always try to make their mission impossible. Thus even prior to His incarnation, darkness already knew the people that will provide the bridge for His incarnation. And in its(darkness) quest to keep humans enslaved, darkness will approach such a people and try to cut them off from their development. And finally use them(the people) to fight against the Truth bringer.

Thus if you look beyond the outward physical circumstances and look into the spiritual situation, you will undersatand that the Germans at that time stood under a great pressure. In their midst, a light happening was about to take place, and as a result, among them darkness exacted its greatest strength -- to lull them to sleep so that they will not recognise the Truth bringer. One can say that they stood in between the Light and the darkness, thus they can be likened to an arena for war. God cannot take away our freewill and make us only listen to the Light. Neither can darkness take away our free will. The only thing God can do is to give us or show us His volition or His will, we are left to decided wheather to obey it or not. At the same time darkness also approaches humans and send them its volition. It is left for the human to decided which volition to obey.

You will recognise the correctness of this explanation if you look around you. History shows it clearly enough. Consider theses things: (1)Hitler's rise to power, (2)his hatred for the Jews, (3)the Nazi party and what they stood for, (4)the Nazi party's struggle against Abd-ru-shin. All these are the outward forms of a great spiritual battle. I will give you a food for thought-- have you ever wondered why the Nazi arrested Abd-ru-shin, stopped His writings and had Him under surveillance until His departure from the earth. For a long time in Germany, during the Nazi regime, the Grail Message was banned. Now why did a political party fight so much against a book or Abd-ru-shin who had neither any political inclination nor intention. Why would a regime fighting a very serious war spend so much energy on just one man(Abd-ru-shin) who writes only about God and spirituality? Does this make sense? It only makes sense when one recognises the spiritual motivations behind scene. Some would say that perhaps Hitler was an atheist who didn't believe in spirituality. But this is not the case, since Hitler was s strong allay of the catholics.

It is similar to what happened in the time of Christ, the Jews who were the most spiritually developed, were chosen and prepared for the reception of the son of God. While God was making his preparation, Lucifer(darkness) was also making his. The battle field was the Jews. Christ carefully chose 12 men who He instructed daily, they were His closest associates. Now in the light of my explanation you can also now ensage that those 12 men were under enormous pressure. Lucifer exacted his strongest attack on them, in order to lull them to sleep or use them to harm Jesus. The puzzle now clears about the case of Judas. People often wondered why Judas(a man specially chosen by Christ) could do such a terrible thing. The answer is that even though Judas had all that it takes to be an apostle, he still had a free will which Christ cannot take away from him. Judas gave in to the volition of Lucifer who was always trying to win the apostles.

Being spiritually developed does not mean that the person can no longer do evil. As long as you are on earth, evil volition can always approach you, but it remains with you to dispel them or give in to them. You have the free will. Only in Paradise will we be in an environment completely rid of darkness and its evil volition. Thus a spiritually matured person has a responsibility to exact himself spiritually every moment, in order to remain at his high spiritual postion. Once he slacks in his spiritual exaction, darkness can win him over.

Now put it all together. The Germans at that time provided the best soil for the incarnation of Abd-ru-shin. Darkness in its quest to rub mankind of this help exacted its strongest attack against the Germans. Darkness succeeded in dragging them down through its agent or representative--Hitler. But in all serious struggles between light and darkness, Light always wins. In this case too the light won! Despite all struggle against it. The message was successfully brought to mankind, today it is not banned in any part of the world and anybody is wellcome to examine it.

Today there is no nation that can be called the most spiritually advanced. In all nations of the world, there both spiritually advanced people and spiritually slow people. The earth today is not what it used to be, for today we stand in judgement of God which speeds up everything. Some are speedily heading towards distruction, while others are speedily heading towards salvation. Spiritually advanced people can be found in almost all countries of the world; because, today the Truth is made available to all mankind. Any body who lives by it will in a shorter time achieve a spiritual advancement that would have taken him centuries to achieve. People are not spiritually advanced based on their nationality or race. Only spiritual movement and recognition brings about spiritual advancement. A people that were advanced a few centuries ago, may not necessarily remain so today. Once they slack in their advancement, they will start moving downhill, for there is no stagnation in the spiritual life.

You now see how ridiculous it is to attack my assertion about the Germans as being spiritually advanced then, just because of a few experiences with a few Germans of today.

Ref:

https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-173782.32.html

Further reply from Pastor AIO
Hey I don't want to sound like a racist.  But I suppose I need to know what the criteria are by which I am told that the Germans were the most spiritually capable of getting God's truth.  What qualities made them the most spiritual people? 

I also do not think that Jesus came to the Jewish because they were the most spiritually advanced.  Far from it.  And the bible (which I accept you don't take as true) says otherwise.

Hitler did not mislead the Germans, antisemitism had been rife in Europe for centuries and it was especially bad in Germany from the 19th century.

Every people has their good and bad points.  In fact we all share are good and bad points.  What makes the difference is that certain people tend to specialize in one or the other aspect of good and bad qualities.  With German people it is haughtiness and competitiveness.  And not even so much with foreigners.  Amongst themselves they are such competitive people and such bad losers when they lose.  This one I know as a consistent fact from all my dealings with them, which is a lot of dealings. I also know a fair bit about their history and their culture to know that there is nothing about them to make them more spiritually advanced than other people in the world.  (again though, I'm not sure what are the criteria for judging spiritual advancement but I usually expect to see a certain meekness in spiritual people.) 

. . . . .


Okay, let's take another German icon, this time of the 19th century, Wagner.  Read here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wagner_controversies

By the way the Nazi party was actually voted into power by the german power.  It was a known fact that they would abolish democracy if they won the election. 

The idea of racial superiority was not introduced by Hitler, far from it.  Eugenics and theories of a pure race was rife in Europe but especially big in germany where they believed that they were the original Aryans.  The Blond beasts, as nietzsche (whether he meant it in a racial sense or was just interpreted as such is another matter).

https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-173782.32.html

^^^ Well here's to help you with a little context from the old thread -

Quote from: Pastor AIO on October 09, 2008, 11:28 AM
I don't believe for an instance that baloney that was said on another thread about Abdrushin incarnating amongst the German people because they were the most spiritually advanced humans to receive his message. Whoever said that doesn't know German people. Don't forget where two world wars came from not to mention the worst kind of nationalism (nazi) plus a generally cold and unsentimental temperament that values might and power above all else. In fact I think that statement is so typical of a german with the notion of racial superiority etc. God can talk to anybody anywhere and race doesn't have anything to do with it.

Reply from Justcool -
I believe that in the above post of yours you were referring to the statement that I made on the following thread: thread.https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=147092.msg2666749#msg2666749

Well this is what I said:
"His incarnations was not compelled by any karma. In His case, as in the case of many prophets, He was sent by God for the benefit of the erring mankind. He incarnates among the people who are spiritually developed enough to receive him. And in an environment that will allow Him to fulfill His task."

And I stand by what I said! Your assetion that the Germans are bad is completely false, biased, and based on ignorance. Also your description of their temperance is totally false.

You mentioned the two world wars and Nazism, and try to use them to justify your assertion on Germans. There is no need clarifying further for you. Those things that you mentioned actually shows the correctness of my explanation. But I know that you cannot see it, neither will I throw light any light on it for you, since your apt to call my post baloney.

JeSoul:

---

I'm interested in Justcool's take. He has one of the brightest minds & warmest of spirits in this section.

Aye aye, you can say that again!

plaetton:
As for this notion of Germans and their spiritual superiority? Oh please. I'm quite shocked that any one, let alone the Op would even consider such nonsense.

Ahem. Another *cough cough* -

Deep Sight:
Were they indeed the most spiritually advanced peoples on earth at the time? Were they truly the highest representation of the human race? If indeed they were, how is it possible that they opened themselves to rise as a nation to the unpeakable levels of evil to which Hitler inspired them?

*clears throat*

Says "Aha!"

In that case you had better commit suicide cos virtually every person has been with someone or the other before being married.

And no son, s[i]e[/i]x is most definitely not marriage. Love, is marriage. It is most demeaning to the human spirit to tie our eternal bonds to a physical act such as s[i]e[/i]x. In so doing you subjugate the spiritual to the physical - whereas it should be the other way round. We are governed and sealed by our spirituality - and not our physical acts such as se[i]x[/i]ual intercourse.

I can assure you that I absolutely have no particular interest in that authour as far as this thread is concerned - you can take my word on that! I only alluded to him on account that you might yourself allude to his presence as you probably explain the spiritual context and overall happening - that is all. Certainly the war from the human spiritual angle and context - the context of its human spiritual undertone and imperative - is what interests me.

To help you along my areas of interest on this matter, maybe i can set a few issues for discussion -

1. Who was Adolf Hitler? What was "behind" him? What was the spiritual imperative of his actions? What was his spiritual role?

2. What was the spiritual role of the German people at that time in history. Were they indeed the most spiritually advanced peoples on earth at the time? Were they truly the highest representation of the human race? If indeed they were, how is it possible that they opened themselves to rise as a nation to the unpeakable levels of evil to which Hitler inspired them?

3. What was the spiritual significance of the role/ suffering/ persecution of the Jewish people in that conflict. What Karma was at play here. Was the holocaust a spiritually "necessary" happening?

4. What spiritual force/ forces are represented by the Allied powers. Particularly what was the spiritual significance of Great Britain, her empire, her stand, her exertion, her grit and her ultimate victory together with the Allied forces. I had heard it said that Hitler was no worse than any other conqueror in history: and that he merely wanted what Britain already had: an empire.

WE can start with these. I hope that the first two or three issue above may lead you to a bigger discussion on the overall spiritual significance of the war.

O, do take your time. There is much to be done and only rarely can one discern anything worthwhile around here these days. very rarely indeed. Nonetheless, i do await your revert.

^^^ What about all the verses in the OP here - - - ?

https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-344297.0.html

Anyway, it don't matter. Just love God and love fellow man. If you cant love God, or don't believe in God, just love fellow man. That will be ok.

Dear justcool,

I have been watching a wonderful series for some months now on NAT GEO on the second world war. The happenings and millions of individual and collective stories - mostly heart rending, but also sometimes showing the human spirit in a gloriously defiant posture of comradeship - convinced me that this was no ordinary war. The extent of the human experience was too profound and too extensive to render it such. It pushed the boundaries of what it meant to be human in every direction - and victors, vanquished and other participants -  each as a collective - experienced the impact in a way that had significant spiritual impacts on societies.

As a story - it is is the story of stories - the biggest and most violent clash of humanity in a battle of wills, idealogies, greed, empire, comradeship, history, passion,  . . . et all, name it.

I recall that a long time ago, you explained that that entire period had certain grave spiritual implications on account of a particular LIGHT happening that was present on the earth at the time. You also therein gave allusions to the spiritual significance of the Germans and the Jews in the conflict. Your perception of the spiritual standing and role of the German people at that time, I could not quite grasp or agree with, but perhaps that was because you did not go into details. (I would also be interested to explore that of the British - they were utterly admirable).

Can you on this thread explain and give a full view on what you believe the spiritual significance of the war was for all the different peoples and nations involved - and also with reference to the ENVOY of the LIGHT said to be present on earth at the time?

Views from all others are welcome. . . . . . (but please atheistic materialists, I am not sure that this thread is for you because ab initio you don't believe there is a spiritual angle to anything and so you might just see it as an incoherent orgyy of meaningless violence).

Thanks.

Martian:
a reduction of the numbers of religious blacks in the diaspora is needed. Badly needed. Religion, ignorance and dysfunctional societies go hand in hand. Just pick 5 predominantly black countries and judge for yourself.

It is very myopic to imagine that religion either alone or even predominantly accounts for the arrested development of the black peoples of the world. A far more obvious factor that accounts for this is environment and climate. -

https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-570326.192.html#msg7428496

There are still other factors - and certainly a mind ready to thoroughly address the said factors from a schorlarly point of view would not place religion anywhere near the top of the list of the relevant factors. Indeed the advanced societies you adore today went through (and many are still going through) thousands of years of deep and even fanatical religiousity. Societies such as Japan for example will remain deeply rooted in their shinto up till tomorrow: and this does nothing to stop or obviate their giant strides in the intellectual, philosphical and technological realms. In my view it therefore emerges as rather lazy and a tad intellectually shallow to focus on and insist on religion as the central factor in this very complex maze of factors for the retardation of development.

The snake is her se.xuality The glass in which she carries the snake refers to her female se.xual organs. Breaking that glass refers to violating her. Hence the revulsion of the father. I see issues of lost virginity and possible pregnancy outside wedlock in this dream. Either that or an invulnerability to temptation on ur side. Hmmmmmm, I be amateur dream reader o. Don't take me too seriously.

^ And you are the son of whom?

God, no?

^ The truth is you will decide to see what you want to see and fail to see what you want to fail to see. The bible clearly set out the framework for marriage by saying that the TWO shall become one. Corinthians further states that each man should have his OWN wife and each woman her OWN husband. My dear, unless you are lying to yourself, this explicitly excludes polygamy. It igoes further to state that a man no longer owns his body once he marries, it’s the wife that owns that body. How you can then give a body that belongs to your wife to another woman and yet remain in line with this biblical command beats me. Its obvious its impossible. However if you deliberately choose to see it otherwise, that is your prerogative.
Finally, as I said, Jesus said that merely desiring a woman in your heart is already a sin. How you wish to tell me you will take another wife without first committing adultery by desiring her in your heart is also beyond me. It’s your choice though.

Ezeufi:
That phrase [/b]marry only one[/b] does not exist in the bible. I have read it from genesis to revelation and nowhere in the bible, (torah, psalms, gospel, you name it); there is no a single phrase where God has explicitly said marrying more than wife is forbidden.

That phrase can only be found in Qur'an.

You see, there are some things that I do not like to see said - and this is one of them. I am not a religious person and i do not subscribe to either the bible or the quoran. But I really feel that the generality of mankind tend to read their religious texts in whatever fashion will best suit their personal desires and instincts. Because of the fact that men naturally desire multiple women, they seek to justify this inclination of theirs from their religious books.

I have seen soooo many people arguing that the bible does not condemn polygamy. The truth is that they only say such to suit their personal desires. Have a look at these verses and tell me how you can claim that the bible is silent on this topic.

Genesis 2:24
For this reason shall a man leave his father and his mother and the TWO shall become ONE flesh.

1 Corinthians 7[/u]by desiring her as Jesus said.
Concerning Married Life
1 Now for the matters you wrote about: “It is good for a man not to have intimate relations with a woman. ” 2  But since intimate immorality is occurring, each man should have his own wife, and each woman her  own husband. 3 The husband should fulfill his marital duty to his wife, and likewise the wife to her husband. 4 The wife does not have authority over her own body but yields it to her husband. In the same way, the husband does not have authority over his own body but yields it to his wife.

[u]1 Timothy 3:12
A deacon must be the husband of but one wife and must manage his children and his household well.

Aside from all these, the most powerful and obvious fact is that it is impossible to take a second wife without first commiting adultery in your heart by desiring her as Jesus said. That is already a sin.

@ Plaetton - I thought you never attended to my query on your pantheistic posture. I only just went there now and saw that you did. That closes my inquiries and places your comments in better context. Thanks.

chuks49:
Arabians re blood tasty.

Are you a vampire? Been tasting and sampling the blood of various races, ah?

Bump.

Or better still, 1 = 1

Kay 17:
I didn't know self satisfaction was a criteria for truth and that there is an inner unquestionable truth which other purported truths are to be measured with.

Truth strikes a chord. Whether we like it or not: the explanation that the universe lacks an over-arching purpose and that random and meaningless permutations of unicellular organisms emerging purposelessly from a pre-biotic soup account fully for our existence will NEVER EVER resonate satisfactorily with a conscious, sentient, intelligent being with feelings and abstract ideas and goals. It's quite simply empty, to such a being, and does not speak to his inner nature which he is very alive to.