₦airaland Forum

Martian:
Okay!
I wash my hands of this thread like Pontius Pilate.Bye Deepsight, these folks are now talking about seeing the universe from other realms.

You should not be so intolerant as to abandon a thread simply because you hear a viewpoint that is alien to yours.

vescucci:
The closest star to us is Andromeda if I am not mistaken. I don't exactly remember how far away it is. But I know it is ridiculously far away. And it'd take forever and ever for an alien living in probably one of the planets in Andromeda's gravitational field to get here.

Andromeda is not a star. It is a galaxy.

Within our galaxy alone, there are hundreds of billions of stars.

Our sun is just one star. What makes you think that there are no life bearing planets amongst all the other 200 - 400 billion stars in this galaxy of ours.

Actually, research has already started to identify planets with life bearing potential.

Kepler spacecraft of NASA which searches for new planets has found an alien world in a habitable zone of star which can allow for life and water

The Kepler also discovered 1000 new planets, bringing the count of discovered planets outside our solar system to 2326 found using this spacecraft. This number has been achieved in 16 months of operation by this spacecraft.

The newly discovered planet has a star which it orbits around like our earth orbits around sun. It is 600 light years away from earth and located in region called Kepler 22-b. It has a radius 2.4 times bigger than that of earth. The temperature on this planet is pretty much same as that on earth, making it a place able to support life.

http://www.scientiaweb.com/2011/12/06/nasa-finds-a-new-planet-capable-of-supporting-life/

But I really have to ask, do some of you believe in these aliens or you're simply ready to entertain the thought of them?

I think I would be a most limited mind, to close myself to the possibility.

Martian:
Apophenia is the experience of seeing meaningful patterns or connections in random or meaningless data.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apophenia

http://members.tripod.com/a_u_r_a/abydos.html

The hieroglyph depicts very clear images save for those determined to ignore them by all means.

Martian:
http://www.catchpenny.org/abydos.html

If the ancient Egyptians had vehicles such as helicopters, submarines, and jet airplanes, one would expect to find some evidence of this other than in a single inscription on the lintel of a single temple. This type of large machinery requires a vast amount of support (including fuel, parts, factories, etc.) but there is no trace of any such support in all of Egypt. The Egyptian literature is also bereft of any boast, much less passing mention, of advanced aircraft. Obviously this situation doesn't seem peculiar to those who really want to believe that the ancient Egyptians flew around in airplanes.

Nobody said they belonged to the Egyptians. The suggestion is that they saw such things and reflected them in some artworks.

Now i know for sure I wished to discuss progressively through ancient art and then ancient text. But I will have to jump the gun a bit because I truly love to discuss the Nazca lines.

There is much that has been said about these lines, but let us calm down for once and reason.

1. These precise patterns cover large expanses of land for many hundreds of miles

2. The pattern of these lines are absolutely not observable from the ground.

3. The pattern of these lines are ONLY observable at a great aerial height.

4. According to mainstream history, human flight had not been invented.

Can you think carefully about this, Martian? Who then was meant to observe these astonishing patterns - if thsoe who made the patterns could NEVER observe them themselves? What was the purpose of these astonishing feats?

Hey Martisn

Martian:
He is the source.

No, I did not cite him as a source Martian. Yes, he wrote that book, but this is the exact quote -

The idea first gained widespread exposure with the 1968 publication of Chariots of the Gods by Erich von Däniken, but the concept has been around since the middle of the 19th century.

Please note the bolded in the red extract above.

Now I must seize this spot to say something about the idea of ridiculing people for making these suggestions. Ridicule is a frail thing. Many times in history the ridiculed ones have with time turned out to be the ones who had far sighted vision with their much ridiculed ideas. This is the context in which i mentioned Corpernicus and Galileo. You countered by saying that those gentlemen used science - agreed - but what is being used here? Is there not science at play? Is Archaelogy not a science? How do we unearth these artefacts if not with archaelogy? The dating methods deployed in studying the age of these artefacts, the various experiments conducted on them - are all these not sciences?

Look, we should simply express disagreement where we disagree and advance reasons therefore, and not seek to ridicule those of a different, albeit more imaginative point of view. Particularly in this case where there is a vast amount of material to suggest that such ideas are not entirely looney.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saqqara_Bird
Messiha built a model of the Saqqara Bird to test for its aerodynamic efficiency. His model was six times larger than the dimensions of the original in an attempt to maintain its proportional aerodynamic efficiency,[7] and was given a horizontal tailplane to act as a stabilizer, which Messiha believed is a missing part of the original model. Messiha insisted that he was able to make his model fly.[8]

In an attempt to discover whether claims of aerodynamic properties of the Saqqara Bird were correct, Martin Gregorie, a builder and designer of free flight gliders, built a replica of the Saqqara Bird made of balsa wood. After testing this replica, Gregorie concluded: "the Saqqara Bird never flew. It is totally unstable without a tailplane…Even after a tailplane was fitted the glide performance was disappointing."[9] He added: "the Saqqara Bird was probably made as a child's toy or a weather vane."[9]

Who is Lumir G Janku? Notice how he took the picture of the "wooden aircraft" from the back? This source is therefore unreliable and dishonest so he is going to see ancient astronauts in everything.

The fact is that there have been different tests. The tests I saw reported great results. Its not entirely impossible that some conduct better replica tests than others.

In answer to your question about the back / face of the artefact, I would ask you to note carefully that that is the only way an ancient man will see such a craft - as a bird or some such - and may potray it as such. But what betrays the fact that it was not a bird was the fact that it had ridges for tail rudders. No matter - I promised you that if you dispute any pictures I will leave them. So what say you about this one - I noticed you failed to comment on it, is it also a bird? -

^ But eating amala is not supported by the bible na?

And yet Elijah was taken to eat amala, abi I lie?

Extracted Analysis of the Precolombian Airplane Models

By Lumir G. Janku, 1996

Is the concept of an airplane limited to Egypt? That doesn't seem to be the case. Gold trinkets were found in an area covering Central America and coastal areas of South America, estimated to belong to a period between 500 and 800 CE, but since they are made from gold, accurate dating is impossible and based essentially on stratigraphy which may be deceptive. However, we can safely say that these gold objects are more than 1000 years old.

Whatever this object is supposed to be or represent, its remarkable resemblance to a modern aircraft or spacecraft is uncanny.

As seen from the pictures, the shape of the sample object is rather ambiguous. The archaeologists labelled these objects as zoomorphic, meaning, animal shaped objects. The question is, what animal do they represent? When we compare these with other objects from the same cultures depicting animals, a curious facet of the comparison would be obvious: the other objects are recognizable, rendered usually with a great accuracy and attention to realistic detail.

There are several types of animals which fly—birds, insects, and several mammals, such as bats and some gliders, for instance flying squirrels, oppossums, and then there are some lizards; there are also some fish which for brief periods glide through the air. There are water animals which seem to fly through the water, such as rays, skates and some selachians. But how does the depicted object compare with these choices? All its features taken into a consideration, we have no match. Seen from above, the object obviously has no fish features, but seems to show rather explicitly mechanistic ones.

The structures just in front of the tail are strongly reminiscent of elevons (a combination of ailerons and elevators) with a slight forward curve, but they are attached to the fuselage, rather than the wings. In any case, they look more like airplane parts than like the claspers of a fish. If the two prominent spirals on the wings are supposed to be a stylized version of the eyes of a ray, then what are the two globular objects positioned on the head supposed to represent? To complicate the identification even more, the spirals on the wings have their copies positioned on the nose of the object, in the opposite direction. When the object is viewed in profile, the didsimilarity to anything from the animal kingdom is even more pronounced. If the zoomorphic explanation is supposed to hold, then why did the artist cut the head off almost three quarters from the body? And why is the nose is practically rectangular and the cut tilted forward, with eyes positioned at either side, when fish eyes are usually more near the center of bodyline and far forward on the head?

What we can make of the semicircular grooves on the inside of the cut? What is it supposed to be—fishwise? And what about the scoop, forward and under the cut? It is a scoop, not just a ridge for drilling a hole through to place the object on a necklace chain. Then there is another rectangular feature, positioned further back at the approximate center of gravity under the fuselage. The wings when viewed from the side are perfetly horizontal, but when seen from the front, they curve slightly downward. The elevators, which are right behind the wings, are positioned on a slightly higher horizontal level and are square-ended, thus a definite geometric shape. Above them is another rectangular shape, with a relief which may be reminiscent of knobs. The tail is equally intriguing. No fish has only a single, upright and perpendicular flange. But this tail fin has an exact shape of fins on modern airplanes. There are also some markings on the tail which are hard to identify, but it does not seem to be anything related to animals, either.

When all the features are taken into an account, the object does not look like a representation of any known animal at all, but does look astonishingly like an airplane. The photos and enlarged outline of the object has been submitted for an analysis to several people from the field of aerodynamics. One of them was Arthur Young, a designer of Bell helicopters and other aircraft. His analysis confirmed that the object contains many features which would fit the airplane hypothesis, but there were several ones which would not fit that scenario. Wings do seem to be in the wrong place—they should be further forward so that their 1/4-chord coincides with the center of gravity. The nose is not like anything on airplanes, as well. So, while the object is suggesting an airplane, some features would not seem to support this hypothesis.

But let's entertain several possibilities. If we imagine that the separation after the windshield is not a cockpit and that the pilot and the cargo were located somewhere in the main fuselage body, then we can envision the nose as something else. Let's assume that the nose is actually a jet. If the machine needs to slow down, the jet flow directed against the path of flight would accomplish just that. But how to redirect the jet into the opposite direction? If we envision the nose as a movable part of the plane, turning around the point located where the nose and fuselage meet, thus pivoting the nose downward to tuck it under the fuselage, that would enable the desired effect. What's more, it will re-adjust the center of gravity and the wings would be just in the right place for a high powered flight. Another problem, though, will appear and that is the drag which would be created by the back of the nose now positioned in front. But that can be attributed to artistic license. That seems to be the case, because several other similar planes feature the back part of the nose tilted more forward, so the angle of the back of the nose when pivoted is more corresponding to aerodynamic principles.

All things considered, the object seems to represent a convertible type of craft, with two possible configurations—one for ascent when the nose is facing backwards, and the other for descent with the nose facing forward. One unsolved item remains—the spirals on the both wings and the nose. According to Amerindian iconography, these spirals have discernable meaning—they represent ascending and descending, depending on whether they are right-oriented or left-oriented, respectively. As the spirals are not only on wings but also on the nose, the meaning is fairly obvious—the wings and the nose (as much) were the features which were directly involved in ascent and descent.

There are other cultures which mention flying vehicles of some sort or another. The most known of these sources are Indian epics, especially the Mahábhárata and other Védic sources as Bhágavata Purána and Rámáyana. The flying devices were called vimánas and were extensively discussed in Vaimánika Shástra, describing multitude of machines with different purposes and capabilities.

Other source of information about flying machines may be considered, such as the Bible and some apocryphal works. The book of Ezekiel seems to be describing the close encounter of a man from a non-technological culture with a device which to him must have been miraculous. We have to put ourselves into his shoes to comprehend his astonishment and the otherworldness of his encounter. The limited scope of knowledge of the world around him, his primitive environment, dictated the language and conceptual framework with which he tried to capture his encounter for fellow tribesmen. For him it seemed that he encountered The God, with his suite of angels, because in his simple world, there was no other interpretation. It is not necessary to reach for an alien type of scenario to explain the encounter; we can entertain a possibility that a remnant of an advanced civilization was still present, in a limited scope, at the time of Ezekiel. But for some, the encounter bears uncanny similarity to the modern-day encounters with UFO's. Another source of similar material is the Book of Enoch, particularly the Slavic version, which contains some parts which the Greek version is missing. The book not only describes flying in the air, but also through outer space, including the relativistic effects mentioned—Enoch spent several days on a spacecraft, but when he returned to Earth, several centuries had passed by.

There is no shortage of descriptions of flying machines in ancient sources. If we try to extract the core of myths of different provenience and remove the embellishments, we discover to our surprise that flying in ancient times seems to be the rule, not the exception.

Here is an extracted analysis of the Wooden airplane sculpture found in Egypt -

By Lumir G. Janku

"This object (shown in sketch) was found in 1898 in a tomb at Saqquara, Egypt and was later dated as having been created near 200 BCE. As airplanes were unknown in the days when it was found, it was thrown into a box marked "wooden bird model" and then stored in the basement of the Cairo museum.

It was rediscovered by Dr. Khalil Messiha, who studied models made by ancients. The "discovery" was considered so important by the Egyptian government that a special committee of leading scientists was established to study the object.

As a result of their findings, a special exhibit was set up in the center hall of the Cairo museum, with the little model as its centerpiece. It was even labelled as a model airplane. 

To elucidate the reasons for the decision of the committee, almost unprecedented in the field of archeology, let's consider some aspects of the model. The model has the exact proportions of a very advanced form of "pusher-glider" that is still having "some bugs ironed out". This type of glider will stay in the air almost by itself—even a very small engine will keep it going at low speeds, as low as 45 to 65 mph., while it can carry an enormous payload. This ability is dependent on the curious shape of wings and their proportions. The tipping of wings downward, a reversedihedral wing as it is called, is the feature behind this capability. A similar type of curving wings are implemented on the Concorde airplane, giving the plane a maximum lift without detracting from its speed.

In that context, it seems rather incredible that someone, more than 2,000 years ago, for any reason, devised a model of a flying device with such advanced features, requiring quite extensive knowledge of aerodynamics. There were no such things as airplanes in these times, we are told by archeologists and historians. But this case seems to be an exception, living in the midst of the rather unimaginative and rigid paradigm of contemporary science. It is also necessary to point out that Egyptians are known to have nearly always made scale-models of projects and objects which they planned to create or build."

^ When the governor of the state left office, he later admitted on TV that it was an object completely unknown to the Governments operations, that he saw it as well (thousands saw it) and that it was clearly other-worldly. He also stated that there were official pressures on him not to say this while he was in office.

But lets keep to Ancient Aliens for now. We will see as we go along where the modern becomes relevant to the ancient and vice versa.

Now what can we say about the helmeted figures found in Mexico and Ecuador which I have posted above? Actually I just randomly selected these two examples. In truth there are many dozens of such images made by ancients peoples all over the world. Exactly what were they trying to potray? Could it be something they had seen regularly or from time to time?

The very least that can be agreed between us is that these artefacts certainly are suggestive and at the very minimum the possibility ought to be considered that these people were making images of things that they had seen.

Now the first two images above are ancient models of aircraft. The precise similarity with modern aircraft is undeniably striking. But what is even more interesting is that a scaled enlargement was done of the second image - the wooden aircraft sculpture found in Egypt. The sculpture even had a ridge which had supported a tail rudder. The scaled enlargement was tested by a team of aeronautic engineers and found to be exactly flight worthy in terms of its shape and balance. It was way too exact a replica of modern aircraft as it was an exact representation of this -

Okay Martian. Now there's no need for me to rely on any of the authourities you are taking jibes at above - even where I never mentioned them. All I want us to do is to calmly and rationally discuss the images I post here.

We all know that art imitates life. These images are highly suggestive -

Any takers?

Okay Martian, before i begin my posts of art and ancient text, let me ask you - do you deny that there are ancient artworks containing drawings of possible aircraft and spacecraft?

If you accept that that such works exist, what do you think inspired them?

Hello Martian

Thank you for taking up this insteresting discussion. Before we proceed, I wish to make a request of you: Please let us have an open minded discussion without any shades of mockery. I say this because it is customary for mainstream viewpoints to mock fringe view points as delusional - and yet you are surely aware that at several points in history the fringe viewpoints have turned out to be the right viewpoints - reference  - Galileo, Corpernicus, etc.

It has always seemed eminently absurd to the generality of thinkers that certain persons are imaginative enough to presuppose certain things. As for me, in my heart, I have no doubt that -

1. Humans on earth are not the only intelligent civilization in the universe and -

2. In the fullness of time (whether or not in our lifetimes) people who doubt the existence of extra terrestial civilizations will be rendered just as those who opposed Galileo and Corpernicus.

3. If indeed such civilizations have ever interacted with the earth, for me, it certainly does not seem wise to limit such interaction to the modern age alone: for such civilizations would have been vastly older than ours.

Thus my opening request is that you kindly do not resort to mockery: lets have an open and intelligible discussion and see what the evidence actually suggests. I already informed you that I will start with ancient art.

I consider ancient art to be a critical body of evidence in this matter. You yourself will not deny that pieces of ancient art form an imporatnt body of archaelogical study: namely that a drawing, inscription or painting that is dated to say 2000 or more years ago, and which perhaps contains clear pictures of men in aircraft - you your self will not deny that such a thing should at the very minimum provoke discussion and research into the issues that this thread addresses. Because if any archaelogist came across any painting of such an age with normal secular refernces, such a painting will be taken by mainstream science as evidence of the elements that it points to, or at least of the thought of the people who made the painting.

There are many paintings of ancient age that very clearly show aircraft of varying types, as well as depict beings in aircraft decending from the sky. There are also a great many writings that speak of gods descending from teh sky in very suggestive patterns. I will begin to list some of these and let us discuss them one at a time.

Let me say at the outset that there is a great lot of material on this and as such if I do post any artwork or text which is quack or fake, please do not mock me: simply point out the reasons why it is quack or fake and I will not dispute such: we will simply leave them and focus on those we can agree are real ancient drawings and inscriptions. Agreed?

Okay, for an intro, I think I can not do any better than the writer of the following has done. I will thus adopt the opening part of his essay as an intro and we can take up the discussion from there.

Imagination is one of the most powerful tools in humanity’s evolutionary struggle for survival. As a race, we are hardwired to consider important concepts, such as the creation of life on Earth and the history of people on this planet. At some point, we are all presented with various explanations and theories regarding the expansion of human life on Earth. In the long history of mankind, the majority of these concepts have followed religious teachings, and the power of a spiritual God or Gods. In modern times, many people have come to challenge these claims.

The idea of evolution has been used to describe the gradual change of traits that living organisms undergo over time, which is related to the environment, but it doesn’t explain how the biological cells of human’s first ancestor were spawned. Because of the fact that everyone is interested in the creation of life on Earth, and concurrently we have been taught to believe in the power of religion and the impossibility of alien life, the idea that this article will be examining is controversial. It will be based around some concepts that have been labeled absurd by the scientific community, but let your imagination go, and have some fun with the list.

The idea surrounding ancient aliens is a basic one. It states that the human population was influenced by a group of extraterrestrials that visited Earth in the past. The aliens were directly involved in the evolution of primates, including humans. It has been suggested that this was accomplished by way of genetic engineering, cross-breeding, or a combination of both, ultimately helping in the development of human cultures, technologies and religion. The idea first gained widespread exposure with the 1968 publication of Chariots of the Gods by Erich von Däniken, but the concept has been around since the middle of the 19th century. A common variant of the idea includes proposals that deities from most, if not all, religions, including angels and demons, are actually extraterrestrials whose advanced technologies were taken by people as evidence of a divine status.

This concept is related to the religious practice of a cargo cult, which can be seen in modern day pre-industrial tribal societies. Especially during World War II, when indigenous people were contacted by soldiers with advanced equipment, such as guns and tanks. The cults subsequently attempted to obtain wealth through magic and religious rituals and practices. The ancient alien theory states that extraterrestrials purposely tricked the human population into believing they were Gods, creating religion to help people evolve more efficiently. The Fermi paradox is the apparent contradiction between high estimates of the probability of the existence of extraterrestrial civilizations and the lack of evidence for, or contact with, such civilizations.

It has been proposed that, with the current age of the universe and its vast number of stars, if the Earth was typical, extraterrestrial life should be common. In response to this paradox, the zoo hypothesis has been suggested. It states that aliens generally avoid making their presence known to humanity, or avoid exerting an influence on development, somewhat akin to zookeepers observing animals in a zoo, or experimental scientists observing a study of life. Adherents of the hypothesis feel that the Earth and humans are being secretly surveyed using equipment located on Earth, or elsewhere in the Solar System. Charles Fort’s unpublished 1915 manuscript, novel X, describes how Martian beings or Martian events control life on Earth. Fort ultimately burnt the manuscript, but one surviving quote from it is “The Earth is a farm. We are someone else’s property.”


http://listverse.com/2011/02/21/top-10-mysteries-surrounding-ancient-aliens/

Okay, I think the foregoing we can adapt as a good summary of the theory in general terms.

I will discuss along different paths - (1)Ancient Art (2) Ancient Texts. For starters.

O, and as per Ancient Aliens, lets take that up in this new thread -

https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-881279.0.html

Am I not such a nice guy! See, i bought a brand new thread just for you, Martian!

Ah, yes! I am in the mood for it! So many interesting discussions going on.

In this thread -

https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-878904.0.html

We had a branch - off into a discussion on Ancient Aliens - which subject was mercilessly ridiculed by Martian, Pastor AIO and PA1982 i think. Plaetton however leaned towards the possibility - and I certainly do as well.

Now the subject of "Ancient Aliens" is one of the most intriguing that one can come across. It has potential to entirely redefine our understanding of ancient texts - and even our understanding of how this planet was engineered - or even our understanding of how humans came to be here.

I will like to discuss this subject - and I say at the outset to you, Martian - that if you can discount some of the instances I will mention as we go along, what conclusion will you arrive at when you take the entire body of material together? Would you see them all as coincidences?

Ok, let's go.

brb.

Infact, so as not to derail this thread, I would like discuss the nature of such people. I have opened a thread therefore.

*zooms off*

https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-881257.0.html

One person out of every thousand has synaesthesia, a psychological phenomenon in which they can smell a sound or hear a color. Most of these people are not aware they are synaesthetes and feel certain about the way they perceive things: they think the way they experience the world is normal. But, when they realize that something is not quite right, they become disappointed.

The research field has grown from grapheme-color synaesthesia to include other forms of synaesthesia in which flavors are evoked by music or words (lexical-gustatory synaesthesia), space structures by time units, colors by music, etc.

Surprising as it may seem, there are people who can smell sounds, see smells or hear colors. Actually, all of us, at some point in our lives, have had this skill (some authors affirm that it is common in newborns). This phenomenon, called “synaesthesia” – from the Greek “syn” (with) and “aisthesis” (sensation) – consists of the pairing of two bodily senses by which the perception of a determined stimulus activates a different subjective perception with no external stimulus (in science, the evoker stimulus is called inducer and the additional experience concurrent).

In the department of Experimental Psychology and Physiology at the University of Granada, a research group is carrying out pioneer work in Spain on the systematic study of synaesthesia and its relation with perception and emotions. Professor Juan Lupiáñez Castillo and Alicia Callejas Sevilla have devoted many years to the study of this unknown but interesting phenomenon, which affects approximately one person out of every thousand. Many of these people do not even know that they are synaesthetes, as they think they perceive the world normally.

Callejas’ doctoral thesis is one of the most detailed studies on this phenomenon at an international level, and it is probably the first doctoral thesis on this topic in Europe. Her study covers the various forms of synaesthesia focussing on the most common one: the grapheme-color type (for people with this form of synaesthesia, letters, words and numbers evoke colors in an automatic and involuntary way).

One of the distinctive characteristics of this form of synaesthesia is the fact that people are certain about their perceptions: they feel that their way of experiencing the world is correct, and they become disappointed when they realize there is something that is not quite right. ‘Therefore, when a person with grapheme-color synaesthesia indicates that the word table is blue, it is quite probable that if he or she ever sees the same word written in a color other than blue, this word will appear to him or her as wrong and consider it a mistake. The synaesthete might even point out that the word is ugly or that he or she does not like it because it is not correct,’ affirms Callejas.

Consequently, finding the word table written in red might be unpleasant whereas seeing it in blue might be agreeable. This emotional reaction associated with how synaesthetes perceive consistent or inconsistent stimuli is an extremely interesting subject and has been studied for the first time in this doctoral thesis.

Some of Callejas’ conclusions show that these emotional reactions occur automatically and can not be ignored. Moreover, they can affect the synaesthete to the point of slanting his or her preferences when faced with certain stimuli which correspond to his or her inner experiences. Even more important is the fact that these emotions can transform how they perceive events associated with these experiences. These events may have no emotional meaning initially but they can become more or less pleasant if they take place at the same time the synaesthete finds a word in the correct or incorrect color.

‘Then, there are people for whom time units evoke colors – explains the researcher. It is also common for a synaesthete to see colors when listening to words, sounds in general or music notes (people who can see music, for instance). There are also cases, although fewer, where people can see colors in flavors, others perceive flavors or experience touch sensations when listening to different sounds, some link flavours to touch sensations, etc.’

These researchers from Granada underline that synaesthetes always experience the same vision, synaesthesia is permanent (a given stimulus always evokes the same Color for one person) and idiosyncratic (it is different for each person). Therefore, if for a synaesthete the word dog is red, every time he or she sees it, it will be perceived as red.

Even though synaesthesia has been known for a long time, its scientific study is relatively recent. Writings such as the Castel one, in which reference is made to previous studies about a synaesthesia case in a blind person, are found in the 18th century. The evolution of the study of this phenomenon has been spectacular – the number of researchers working on this topic is constantly increasing, as will be evident in the Conference which will take place in Granada – and, as the phase of proving that this phenomenon exists has been overcome, explains Alicia Callejas, ‘we are starting to approach questions of major theoretical importance, and to develop adequate study strategies.’ The results of her research have been published in the following prestigious scientific journals, among others: Cortex, Experimental Brain Research and Consciousness and Cognition.


http://www.science20.com/news_releases/synaesthesia_smelling_a_sound_or_hearing_a_color

Is there a particular spiritual significance associated with people who have this ability? Do these persons stand higher than non-synaesthetes, or is this strictly a psycological/ physiological effect.

@ Pastor AIO/ Justcool -

Great posts!

I particularly like the bit alluding to synaesthesia. I have watched a few documentaries on this and its just amazing. It really helps to expand the mind about what this reality might really be like.

Surprising as it may seem, there are people who can smell sounds, see smells or hear colors. Actually, all of us, at some point in our lives, have had this skill (some authors affirm that it is common in newborns). This phenomenon, called “synaesthesia” – from the Greek “syn” (with) and “aisthesis” (sensation) – consists of the pairing of two bodily senses by which the perception of a determined stimulus activates a different subjective perception with no external stimulus (in science, the evoker stimulus is called inducer and the additional experience concurrent).



In the department of Experimental Psychology and Physiology at the University of Granada, a research group is carrying out pioneer work in Spain on the systematic study of synaesthesia and its relation with perception and emotions. Professor Juan Lupiáñez Castillo and Alicia Callejas Sevilla have devoted many years to the study of this unknown but interesting phenomenon, which affects approximately one person out of every thousand. Many of these people do not even know that they are synaesthetes, as they think they perceive the world normally.

Callejas’ doctoral thesis is one of the most detailed studies on this phenomenon at an international level, and it is probably the first doctoral thesis on this topic in Europe. Her study covers the various forms of synaesthesia focussing on the most common one: the grapheme-color type (for people with this form of synaesthesia, letters, words and numbers evoke colors in an automatic and involuntary way).

One of the distinctive characteristics of this form of synaesthesia is the fact that people are certain about their perceptions: they feel that their way of experiencing the world is correct, and they become disappointed when they realize there is something that is not quite right. ‘Therefore, when a person with grapheme-color synaesthesia indicates that the word table is blue, it is quite probable that if he or she ever sees the same word written in a color other than blue, this word will appear to him or her as wrong and consider it a mistake. The synaesthete might even point out that the word is ugly or that he or she does not like it because it is not correct,’ affirms Callejas

http://www.science20.com/news_releases/synaesthesia_smelling_a_sound_or_hearing_a_color

Justcool, your treatment of the issue in this regard is therefore deeply thought provoking - read especially the last paragraph of the red extract above!

Now since I am not gifted with this quality I am not in a position to say that I have "experienced" language in this profound way. I thus cannot tell what languages may be most refined in this regard.

Nevertheless your points are noted.

^^^ Martian, you were not honest with my simple question when I asked as follows -

1. Are there any historical accuracies in the bible?

2. If so, how many/ what proportion?

You gave an answer that tends to suggest that perhaps only the mention of a few real places or so are real - and everything else is a work of fiction. This is extremely dishonest. The fact is that there are a great many historical accuracies - and you just dont want to admit that.

I am no bible apologist as you well know, but I should hope that I would never take things so far as to begin to suggest that virtually everything in there is false. That will be very dishonest.

At all events you need to place your comments in the specific context of my query in the OP - namely why do people seek to completely deny the existence of men such as Moses, Daniel and Jesus? Is this reasonable?

The issue is as simple as that. Let us not seek to draw out long-winded but irrelevant issues of general biblical innacuracies which no one is contesting.

Kay 17:
Infinity makes no sense

To whom? Finite minds?

without time

What is time? ? ? ? ? ?

Kay 17:
Wouldn't the absurdity of infinity apply?

Actually, infinity is the only reality.

jayriginal:
DeepSight, sometimes you amaze me. I'd like to know how much you know about the Benin moat. That in itself is a staggering achievement for a civilization without modern tools, yet I've never heard allusions to "aliens".

Jesus Christ. I'm just going to assume you did not read anything that I wrote. I honestly don't know how you can derive this understanding from what I wrote.

Lolz. This man sef. Anyway thanks, chatting with you has really helped me distract myself from some terrible personal issues this Sunday. Take care! - I will be back too!

Martian:
Some would.

Please be honest - ALL mainstream people would definitely have denied their existence.

This shows you that mainstream could sometimes be wrong and "conspiracy theorists" could sometimes be right.

There is a huge gap in history somewhere that we are not seeing. Personally I cannot accept that advanced RECORDED civilizations have existed on this planet for only six thousand or so years. Its implausible to me.

Furthermore, construction of that size should have some remnants.

Not necessarily: it depends on the level of the cataclysmic event that may have erased it. There have been many catacylsmic events in the earths history.

The existence of the Aztecs isn't disputed. The 84000 might be out of whack but THE AZTECS EXISTED.

You STILL didnt get that analogy, did you?

PA1982:
^^^
Could you give the Aztecs a rest, please?

NO, I CANNOT! Because both you and Martian have missed the pith of that analogy. That analogy shows that the exxageration of an event does not render the event false.

plaetton:
@martian:

Thank god(oops) that athiesm is not a religion,otherwise you would be giving us a bad name.
I notice that you are more interested in making carricature than engaging in open discussion. You seem to be dogmatic like one who posses absulote knowledge about what is real and what is not real,and, unable to consider possiblities. Imagination is actually the greatest survival tool that humans have. There is nothing wrong in considering possibilites, no matter how far fetched.
I have the conviction that aliens, angels, gods or whatever you want to call them, at some point in our distant past, inhabited the earth and played out dramas that were recorded by the stone age people in the best way and language they could.
There is an overwhelming body of evidence to sugges[/b]t that. This is not a matter of faith or belief . There are countless distinguished hostorians, archeologist and academics who publicly support this notion. Even if it is not true, there is nothing wrong or wierd about considering such possibilities in the face of so much unexplainable technological marvels of ancient civilizations and from direct interpretation of ancient text.
I think its sheer arrogance for any learned person to dismiss that [b]possibility. . thinking out of the box and Considering remote possibilities is actually what drives human achievements.

Thank you oooo!

The body of evidence is quite large and certainly deserves to be considered.

Please answer this question -

Deep Sight:
If so, how many/ what proportion?

Martian:
Staggering feats that are not found in myths are believed by people, what rational skeptics do not believe are the staggering feats mentioned in mythology like the Bible. So no one will discount a staggering feat but when the accomplishment is not logical i.e the amount of gold needed, smelters etc (read PA1982's post again) and is found in a religious book, then one should ask for evidence. Staggering feats like this monument of yours stand the test of time don't they? So if the pyramids still exist, where is your golden giant? Have you watched ant NATgeo series on that? maybe the aliens took it.

Ah, Martian, let us be honest here o. If the pyramids had been destroyed entirely without a trace, the fact is that skeptics would definititely assert that such a structure probably never existed. Because even today, the construction remains a puzzle. So its clear that skeptics would have called it another myth.

Did you read and understand my analogy about the 84, 000 human sacrifices of the Aztec?