₦airaland Forum

Martian:
Oh, the Governor. I wonder why he mocked the idea while in office AND HAD THE POWER TO LAUNCH AN INVESTIGATION IF HE BELIEVED HIS OWN BS.
American politicians are not immune to sayin crazy stuff to pander to their constituents or base. Check out the republican field this year if you doubt me.
It doesn't stop when they leave office neither, the former governor of Minnesota hosts a show where investigates things like. "who was really responsible for 9/11"

Its all too easy and lazy to impugn the Governor's motives. What would be more scientific is to address the behaviour of flares which he pointed out (and mind you, many did as well) as being completely out of line with the behaviour of the Phoenix Lights. Any person who even knows what a flare is would noot for one second countenance that explanation.

Flares DO NOT float in STEADY SYMETRICAL FORMATION as these lights did. Anyone who says the countrary has never seen a flare and does not know what flares are. This is a fact.

Martian, the Arizona Governor at the time was a trained pilot and former air-force officer. Note his comments on the flare explanation here -

The Arizona Governor on the Phoenix Lights

In March 2007, former Arizona Governor Fife Symington III said that he had witnessed one of the "crafts of unknown origin" during the 1997 event, but noted that he did not go public with the information. Shortly after the lights, Symington held a press conference, stating that "they found who was responsible". He proceeded to make light of the situation by bringing his aide on stage dressed in an alien costume. (Dateline, NBC). In an interview with The Daily Courier in Prescott, Arizona, Symington said, "I'm a pilot and I know just about every machine that flies. It was bigger than anything that I've ever seen. It remains a great mystery. Other people saw it, responsible people. I don't know why people would ridicule it". Symington had earlier said, "It was enormous and inexplicable. Who knows where it came from? A lot of people saw it, and I saw it too. It was dramatic. And it couldn't have been flares because it was too symmetrical. It had a geometric outline, a constant shape.

Symington also noted that he requested information from the commander of Luke Air Force Base, the general of the National Guard, and the head of the Department of Public Safety. But none of the officials he contacted had an answer for what had happened, and were also "perplexed". Later, he responded to an Air Force "explanation" that the lights were flares: [b]"As a pilot and a former Air Force Officer, I can definitively say that this craft did not resemble any man made object I'd ever seen. And it was certainly not high-altitude flares because flares don't fly in formation".[/b]Frances Barwood, the 1997 Phoenix city councilwoman who launched an investigation into the event, said that of the over 700 witnesses she interviewed, "The government never interviewed even one".

Martian:
I was just pointing out that miltary flares do float contrary to what you supposedly learned from the show. So if the Air Force says they were flares, then it is a logical explanantion. Also, the average american doesn't know much about the military and it's tools.

No, come on, you said not that you are saying such explains Phoenix? Why did you say that?

Have you had a look at the behaviour of military flares and contrasted it with the phoenix lights?

Martian:
And stop bitching about the mocking tone as if you're not guilty of the same, except yours just make me laugh and cringe.

I already explained to you the exact reason why the mockery will not help. Its not about my sensitivity - its rather that such an approach will obfuscate the open facts of the discussion. Nobody needs to be inferred a lunatic for his views on this matter. Simpliciter.

Martian:
Also, military flares do "float" and "disappear" in mid air when they burn out. I KNOW firsthand and not as a result of some ret@rded UFO show and I don't mean that it's the expalnation for phoenix. But that's how the shows give inaccurate information.

Well what was the official explanation for the Phoenix lights then?

- You say you don't mean that flares were responsible for Phoenix

- The American Air Force said they were flares?

So who's right - Martian or the American Airforce? If if neither is right, then that simply means there exists no explanation of what those lights were till date!

Sidney Sheldon (February 11, 1917 – January 30, 2007) was an Academy Award-winning American writer. His TV works spanned a 20-year period during which he created The Patty Duke Show (1963–66), I Dream of Jeannie (1965–70) and Hart to Hart (1979–84), but he became most famous after he turned 50 and began writing best-selling novels such as Master of the Game (1982), The Other Side of Midnight (1973) and Rage of Angels (1980). He is the sixth best selling writer of all time.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sidney_Sheldon

I paste here the full text of Mr. Sheldon's Authour's note to his book, "The Doomsday Conspiracy". If  to be read, the reader should read it very carefully and not skim over details.

The Beginning
AUTHOR'S NOTE
In researching this novel, I have read numerous books and magazine and newspaper articles citing astronauts who had reportedly had extraterrestrial experiences: Colonel Frank Borman on Gemini 7 supposedly took pictures of a UFO that followed his capsule. Neil Armstrong on Apollo 11 saw two unidentified spacecraft when he landed on the moon.  Buzz Aldrin photographed unidentified spacecraft on the moon.

Colonel L. Gordon Cooper encountered a large UFO on a Project Mercury flight over Perth, Australia, and recorded voices speaking languages later found to belong to no known earth language.

I talked to these men, as well as to other astronauts, and each assured me that the stories were apocryphal rather than apocalyptic, that they had had no experiences of any kind with UFOs. A few days after my telephone conversation with Colonel Gordon Cooper, he called me back.  I returned his call, but he had suddenly become unavailable.  One year later, I managed to acquire a letter written by him, dated November 9, 1978, and discussing UFOs.

I telephoned Colonel cooper again to ask him if the letter was authentic.  This time, he was more forthcoming.  He informed me that it was and that on his journeys into space, he had personally witnessed several flights of UFOs. He also mentioned that other astronauts had had similar experiences that they were warned not to discuss.

I have read a dozen books that prove conclusively that flying saucers exist.  I have read a dozen books that prove conclusively that flying saucers do not exist.  I have run videotapes purporting to be photographs of flying saucers and have met with therapists in the United States and abroad who specialize in hypnotizing people who claim to have been taken up into UFOs. The therapists say that they have handled hundreds of cases in which the details of the victims' experiences are startlingly similar, including identical, unexplainable marks on their bodies.  An Air Force general in charge of the Blue Book Project-a United States government group formed to investigate flying saucers-assured me that there has never been any hard evidence of flying saucers or aliens.  Yet, in the foreword to Timothy Good's remarkable book Above Top Secret: The Worldwide UFO Cover-up, Lord Hill-Norton, Admiral of the Fleet and British Chief of Defense Staff from 1971 to 1973, writes: The evidence that there are objects which have been seen in our atmosphere, and even on terra firma, that cannot be accounted for either as manmade objects or as any physical force or effect known to our scientists seems to me to be overwhelming.  ,  A very large number of sightings have been vouched for by persons whose credentials seem to me unimpeachable.  It is striking that so many have been trained observers, such as police officers and airline or military pilots,

In 1933 the 4th Swedish Flying Corps began an investigation of mysterious unmarked aircraft appearing over Scandinavia, and on April 30, 1934, Major-General Erik Reuterswaerd issued the following statement to the press: Comparisons of these reports show that there can be no doubt about illegal air traffic over our secret military areas.  There are many reports from reliable people which describe close observation of the enigmatic flier.  And in every case, the same remark can be noted; no insignias or identifying marks are visible on the machines. ,  The question is: Who or what are they, and why have they been invading our air territory?

In 1947 Professor Paul Santorini, a leading Greek scientist, was asked to investigate missiles flying over Greece.  His research, however, was curtailed: "We soon established that they were not missiles.  But, before we could do any more, the Army, after conferring with foreign officials, ordered the investigation stopped.  Foreign scientists flew to Greece for secret talks with me."  (Emphasis added.) The professor confirmed that a "world blanket of secrecy" surrounded the UFO question because, among other reasons, the authorities were unwilling to admit the existence of a force against which there was "no possibility of defense."

From 1947 to 1952, the Air Technical Intelligence Center (ATIC) received approximately fifteen hundred official reports of sightings.

Of these the Air Force carries twenty percent as unexplained: Air Chief Marshal Lord Dowding, commander in chief of the RAF Fighter Command during the Battle of Britain in 1940 wrote: More than 10,000 sightings have been reported, the majority of which cannot be accounted for by any "scientific explanation."  They have been tracked on radar screens , and the observed speeds have been as great as 9,000 miles an hour.  , I am convinced that these objects do exist and that they are not manufactured by any nation on earth.  [Emphasis added.] I can therefore see no alternative to accepting the theory that they come from an extraterrestrial source.

Recently, in Elmwood, Wisconsin, the entire town watched as flying saucers moved across their skies for several days.

* * * General Lionel Max Chassin, who rose to the rank of Commanding General of the French Air Forces and served as General Air Defense Co-ordinator, Allied Air Forces, Central Europe (NATO), wrote: That strange things have been seen is now beyond question.  ,

The number of thoughtful, intelligent, educated people in full possession of their faculties who have "seen something," and described it grows every day.

Then there was the famous Roswell Incident in 1947.  According to eyewitness reports, on the evening of July 2, a bright disk-shaped object was seen over Roswell, New Mexico.  The following day, widely scattered wreckage was discovered by a local ranch manager and his two children.  The authorities were alerted, and an official statement was released confirming that the wreckage of a flying disk had been recovered.  A second press statement was immediately issued stating that the wreckage was nothing more than the remains of a weather balloon, which was dutifully displayed at a press conference.  Meanwhile, the real wreckage was reported to have been sent to Wright Field.  The bodies were described by one witness as like human but they were not humans.  The heads were round, the eyes were small, and they had no hair.  Their eyes were widely spaced.

They were quite small by our standards and their heads were larger in proportion to their bodies.  Their clothing seemed to be one-piece and grey in color.  They seemed to be all males and there were a number of them.  ,  Military personnel took over and we were told to leave the area and not to talk to anyone about what we had seen.

According to a document acquired from an intelligence source in 1984, a highly secret panel, code-named Majestic 12, or MJ-12, was formed by President Truman in 1947 to investigate UFOs and report its findings to the President.  The document, dated November 18, 1952, and classified Top Secret/Majic/Eyes Only, was allegedly prepared by Admiral Hillenkoetter for president-elect Dwight Eisenhower and includes the astonishing statement that the remains of four alien bodies were recovered two miles from the Roswell wreckage site.

Five years after the panel was formed, the committee wrote a memo to then president-elect Eisenhower about the UFO project and the need for secrecy: Implications for the National Security are of continuing importance, in that motives and ultimate intentions of these visitors remain completely unknown.  ,  It is for these reasons, as well as the obvious international technological considerations and the ultimate need to avoid a public panic at all costs, that the Majestic 12 Group remains of the unanimous opinion that imposition of the strictest security precautions should continue without interruption into the new administration.

The official explanation of denial is that the document's authenticity is questionable.

The National Security Agency is reported to be withholding more than one hundred documents relating to UFOs; the CIA, approximately fifty; and the DIA, six.

Major Donald Keyhoe, a former aide to Charles Lindbergh, publicly accused the United States government of denying the existence of UFOs in order to prevent public panic.

In August 1948, when a top secret Estimate of the Situation by the Air Technical Intelligence Center offered its opinion that UFOs were interplanetary visitors, General Vandenberg, Air Force Chief of Staff at the time, ordered the document burned.  Is there a worldwide government conspiracy to conceal the truth from the public?  In the short space of six years, twenty-three English scientists who worked on Star Wars-type projects have died under questionable circumstances.  All of them had worked on different facets of electronic warfare, which includes UFO research.  A list of the deceased and the dates and circumstances of their deaths follows.

1.  1982.  Professor Keith Bowden: killed in auto crash.

2.  July 1982.  Jack Wolfenden: died in glider accident.

3.  November 1982.  Ernest Brockway: suicide.  4.  1983.  Stephen Drinkwater: suicide by strangulation.

5.  April 1983.  Lieutenant-Colonel Anthony Godley: missing, declared dead.

6.  April 1984.  George Franks: suicide by hanging.

7.  1985.  Stephen Oke: suicide by hanging.  8.  November 1985.

Jonathan Wash: suicide by jumping from a building.

9.  1986.  Dr. John Brittan: suicide by carbonmonoxide poisoning.

10.  October 1986.  Arshad Sharif: suicide by placing a rope around his neck, tying it to a tree, and then driving away at high speed.  Took place in Bristol, one hundred miles away from his home in London.

11.  October 1986.  Vimal Dajibhai: suicide by jumping from a bridge in Bristol, one hundred miles away from his home in London.

12.  January 1987.  Avtar Singh-Gida: missing, declared dead.

13.  February 1987.  Peter Peapell: suicide by crawling under car in garage.

14.  March 1987.  David Sands: suicide by driving car into cafe at high speed.

15.  April 1987.  Mark Wisner: death by selfstrangulation.

16.  April 10, 1987.  Stuart Gooding: killed in Cyprus.

17.  April 10,1987.  David Greenhalgh: fell off a bridge.

18.  April 1987.  Shani Warren: suicide by drowning.

19.  May 1987.  Michael Baker: killed in auto crash.

20.  May 1988.  Trevor Knight: suicide.  21.  August 1988.

Alistair Beckham: suicide by self-electrocution.

22.  August 1988.  Brigadier Peter Ferry, suicide by self-electrocution.

23.  Date unknown.  Victor Moore: suicide.

Coincidences?

In the past three decades, there have been at least seventy thousand reports of mysterious objects in the sky and countless more sightings, perhaps ten times as many, that have gone unreported.

Reports of UFOs have come from hundreds of countries all over the globe.

In Spain, UFOs are known as objetos foladores no identificados; in Germany, fliegende Untertassen; in France, soucoupes volantes; in Czechoslovakia, letajici talire.

The eminent astronomer Carl Sagan has estimated that our Milky Way galaxy alone may contain some 250 billion stars.

About a million of these, he believes, may have planets capable of supporting some form of civilization.

Our government denies the existence of extraterrestrial intelligence, yet on Columbus Day, in 1992, in Cali fornia and Puerto Rico, NASA will activate radio telescopes equipped with special receivers and computers capable of analyzing tens of millions of radio channels at once to search for signs of intelligent life in the universe.

NASA has nicknamed the mission MOP for Microwave Observing Project, but astronomers refer to it as SETI, for Search for Extraterrestrial Intelligence.

I have asked two former presidents of the United States whether they have any knowledge of UFOs or aliens, and their responses were negative. Would they have told me if they had had any information?

Given the blanket of secrecy that seems to surround the subject, I think not.

Do flying saucers really exist?  Are we being visited by aliens from another planet?  With new technology probing deeper and deeper into the universe, looking for signs of intelligent life in space, perhaps we will have the answer much sooner than we expect.

There are many working in space exploration, astronomy, and cosmology who, not content to wait for that answer, put themselves out on a limb and make a prediction of their own.  Jill Tartar, an astrophysicist and SETI project scientist at NASA's Ames Research Center, in Ames, Iowa, is among them: There are 400 billion stars in the galaxy.  We're made of stardust, really common stuff.  In a universe filled with stardust, it's hard to believe that we are the only creatures who could be.

November 9, 1978 Ambassador Griffith Mission of Grenada to the United Nations 866 Second Avenue Suite 502 New York, New York 10017 Dear Ambassador Griffith: I wanted to convey my views on our extra-terrestrial visitors popularly referred to as "UFO's", and suggest what might be done to properly deal with them.  I believe that these extra-terrestrial vehicles and their crews are visiting this planet from other planets, which obviously are a little more technically advanced than we are here on earth.  I feel that we need to have a top level, coordinated program to scientifically collect and analyze data from all over the earth concerning any type of encounter, and to determine how best to interface with these visitors in a friendly fashion.  We may first have to show them that we have learned to resolve our problems by peaceful means, rather than warfare, before we are accepted as fully qualified universal team members.  This acceptance would have tremendous possibilities of advancing our world in all areas.  Certainly then it would seem that the UN has a vested interest in handling this subject properly and expeditiously.

I should point out that I am not an experienced UFO professional researcher.  I have not yet had the privilege of flying a UFO, nor of meeting the crew of one.  I do feel that I am somewhat qualified to discuss them since I have been into the fringes of the vast areas in which they travel.  Also, I did have occasion in 1951 to have two days of observation of many flights of them, of different sizes, flying in fighter formation, generally from east to west over Europe.  They were at a higher altitude than we could reach with our jet fighters of that time.  I would also like to point out that most astronauts are very reluctant to even discuss UFO's due to the great numbers of people who have indiscriminately sold fake stories and forged documents abusing their names and reputations without hesitation.  Those few astronauts who have continued to have a participation in the UFO field have had to do so very cautiously.  There are several of us who do believe in UFO's and who have had occasions to see a UFO on the ground, or from an airplane.  If the UN agrees to pursue this project, and to lend their credibility to it, perhaps many more well-qualified people wiil agree to step forth and provide help and information.

I am looking forward to seeing you soon.

Sincerely, L. Gordon Cooper Col.  USAF (Ret) Astronaut LCC:jm

Now the foregoing is at least food for thought. At the very minimum it should rid us of amocking, dismissive attitude when discussingthis subject. The amount of civilian and military trained pilots and officers who have reported observations is cause for some reflection.  

Well, if your tone will continue to be such mockery, i guess I must retire until you are ready to calm down.

BTW, before you misrepresent me, I did not tell you I saw a spaceship. I told you that I myself have seen something in the sky the nature oif which I could not tell - and I know many others who have. It could have been a plane, meteorites, whatever. The point was simply against your notion that no odd sights are observed in Africa. That is ridiculous. Africa is simply a backward place where nothing is recorded or reported. That is simple.

^ I am not sure any one who thinks he has seen a UFO will come forward to you. Or what do you think? Now that is the point. People need not be discouraged from sharing their experiences on account of the fear of mockery. Such an atmosphere of mockery certanly retards the sharing of observed information.

Now, you can do with the information what you like. You can prove that the person has hallucinated. That will be fine. But if you do so in a scornful and mocking fashion, you will certainly earn the silence of one witness who may not be hallucinating. You may even earn the silence of people who observe enemy military experiments and think them to be UFOs. Such silence could then prove damaging to your National Security. So the point firmly remains that mockery does nothing for a matter such as this. I urged you in that direction at the outset; but I see that that was a vain hope on my part.

Martian:
lol,
If that's what you consider learning and "invaluable resources" for information, then good for you. Sure they still show some relevant stuff BUT the history channel is 90% simple entertainment. I get my learning from BETTER and LEGIT sources.
One man's meat is another man's poison.
http://www.history.com/shows

I really don't know if you think speculations on aliens is all that there is on the History Channel. Perhaps everything we watch therein on the world wars and general world history are also "90 per cent entertainment". You neednt go to such an incredible length to discredit a channel my friend.

Addittionally, as a rule, none of the documentary channels ever casts any thing that has not been finally and generally accepted as a fact to be true. They always have the subject discussed, always ensure that the objections of contrary and mainstream views are mentioned, and they leave the question open as a point of curiosity for the viewer. That’s normal and proper, and there is nothing to be scorned or mocked in such an approach.

Nobody will mock you if you can prove what you're saying. You saw a UFO? Prove it.

You see, here is the thing. Not all sightings can be proved as not all people wander about the world with a camera in hand waiting for a UFO sighting. Now in spite of this, a great many sightings have been captured on camera. For a fact, many of such captured footage have not been explained till today even as we speak. What happened in Phoenix is a case in point. This was a mass sighting observed by thousands and captutured in still and video camera.

In that case, the Airforce attributed the lights in the sky to military flares. A replication of military flares showed clearly that flares do not stand still hanging in the sky in the peculiar formation of the Phoenix lights.

I am not here to tell you that it must necessarily be an extra-terrestial event, but I am certainly here to tell you that it is most unscientific to look at that footage and conclude that you must close the door to any single possibility – much less mock the available possibilities. That is most unscientific, especially with the amount of footage and evidence gathered in that incident. Your comments regarding that incident leave me to believe you are not informed on the details of that occurrence.

Now exactly what I deplore – the mockery – had and has made many people silent about many such events. After the Phoenix lights, a lady came forward with a treasure trove of footage she had recorded over the years – but was too fearful of mockery to ever bring forward. The evidence might describe her footage as what it will – but she definitely had some incredible footage – and there were others who had similarly hidden their footage, only sharing it with family and friends.

What I say to you is that such important bits of observational evidence will in many cases remain in someone’s drawer forever exactly because of the Martians prowling about stating that anyone who observes such is a lunatic. That is a medieval fanatical approach and has nothing in sync with candid and open scientific inquiry.

When was the last time a UFO appeared in Nigeria? Deepsight and Jenwitemi, can you answer that? Is it only westerners that see UFO. Just like it's only in Nigeria where witches fly and get caught on peoples' roofs and power lines.

Without mincing words, I know several people who have seen things in the skies that they cannot explain – which is what a UFO is by the way, simply an unidentified flying object. Indeed I recall seeing something odd myself in my teenage years which I called out my brother to see. We do not know what it was, and we do not assert that it was extra-terrestial – only that we do not know what it was.

Now it surprises me that you talk about no reports in Nigeria. Is Nigeria a “reporting” society? How many things get reported in this part? How many crimes are even officially reported? How many records of anything whatsoever are there? The fact is that this is not a society that keeps any records whatsoever or will even be interested in reporting such things, when they have more important things to do such as keep body and soul together.

But you will be very wrong if you suggest that such reports are limited to the western hemisphere. There are thousands and thousands of such reports all over the globe. I once produced a huge list of such reports that covered Asia, Europe, Oceania, Auatralia, Latin America, etc for a poster on this forum who made the ridiculous assertion that these reports are limited to the USA. That is an ignorant assertion. I cannot be bothered to go and source the list. Just google “global reports of UFO sightings” and you will see in a thrice that this phenomenon is reported globally.

It cannot be surprising that the least reported area is also the area where virtually little in everything is reported anyway, owing to technological and education backwardness – Africa.

Stop equating yourselves to "radically correct thinkers". You and Jenwitemi sit there and get your "facts" from shows that are not taken seriously by educated people and pat yourselves on the back for your "knowledge". How nice!

If you will read my words you will see that I did not equate myself to any radically correct thinkers. I rather offered you the plain fact that many radically correct thinkers have faced far greater mockery than the mockery you offer those you believe that extra terrestrials have visited this planet. So it is no deficit to be mocked. The mocked are in good company, my friend.

Maybe if you were a little bit more exposed, you could separate fact from fiction and learn to watch those shows with wary eyes and a skeptical mind. Instead of swallowing everything you see on hows like "
Ancient Aliens" hook, line and sinker. The Saqqara bird is still a plane in your kooky world, isnt' it?

I am not sure you are in a position to judge how exposed I am, or what quantum of information I accept as true or false from any documentaries. I think you should live that to me and people well acquainted with me in real life. We did not come here to brick – bat about exposure.

Hopelessly misfooted? I think not, " The Quest for Atlantis featuring Jenwitemi" is just as hilarious as the premise for the show, "Finding Bigfoot". You know why it's called, "finding bigfoot"? Because they will never actually find bigfoot. Because bigfoot is an urban legend and Atlantis is a legend too.

You may use the show “finding big foot” as your mockery-sword: that is your affair. The fact remains that you have accepted that lost civilizations do exist and so it is eminently incongruous for you to mock people on that very ground, or with references to lost civilizations. If you accept that they exist, you cannot then claim omniscience over which are legends and which are grounded in reality. As we all know, a great many legends have some elements or strands of truth in them, even if they may be naturally distorted over time.

I used natural disasters as a possible explanation for some ancient ruins and the disappearance of these civilizations. I didn't use it as an example for you people's ignorant fantasies.

This is a contradictory and already collapsed defence. You asked for ancient records and in the same breath you accept that there are possibilities records and peoples could be lost to disasters. You then use the absence of records as a point for mockery – even where records are not entirely absent. Make up your mind dude.

Natural disasters can erase records but I'm not talking about records that have to do with aliens because aliens are not needed to explain human ingenuity.

Yes. Carry on. Shoot yourself again and again. “Natural Disasters can erase records but they have not erased any records except the kind of records I believe exist.” Get real.

Aliens qualify as extraordinary claims and extraordinary claims demand extraordinary evidence.

Some extra-ordinary evidence are actually massively standing about for everyone to see. We simply cannot agree on what these may represent: you should not mock contrary views for that reason.

Like I told your buddy before and HE AGREED, Galileo and Copernicus didn't dream up fantasies. Galileo used a telescope

Do archaelogists and scientists conducting aging experiments on some of these artefacts use crystal balls? ? ?

Yea child, it's lost on me. Like I haven't already dealt with it earlier on this thread. lmao
How long have you been lurking, hoping to come back and land some shots?

My dear please there is no need to make assumptions on what I have been up to. I have actually spent the last two days connecting very long and tiresome flights. Stop these unnecessary cheap shots. You did accede to my demand for an absence of mockery at the outset, so what’s all this? No scouts honour?

^ Yep. Sums it up.

^

1. Is science limited to the study of the physical, yes or no?

2. Is the soul said to be a physical thing, yes or no?

plaetton:
@Deepsight:
Sorry for the delay in replying to your question.
Yes , according to the definition of panthiesm, I probably am. You have also previously found me to be a an agnostic. By my viewpoints, I could also be called a neoplatonist(?), a pythogorean, a hermeticist, a zen buddhist, a pagan and a newly converted pastaferian. lol.
This is the benefit of having a free mind.

So would you be interested in doing for us a summary of your views with regard to the human purpose and experience within the universe.

^ Is there anything that truly dies?

Gambrosia:
Suicide is a way out for depressed cowards.

True, I agree.

But the courageousness or cowardice of the decision is not that which I ask. I ask after it's morality.

Do human beings have the moral right to take their own lives?

Have you considered the many issues thrown up about this regarding euthnasia - do you know that there are vigoruous "Right to Die" campaigns all over Europe for example with regard to the terminally ill, etc?

^ I am sure the pith of the Galileo/ Corpernicus analogies is not lost on you son.

Okay, staring very simply -

Taken in consideration of a firm belief in life after death -

1. in different realms of reality and

2. Freedom of movement,

Whats wrong with a free decision to transit realms via ending one's life?

Taken in consideration of no belief in an after life -

- What's wrong with an individual's personal decision that he has no interest in this present life?

Just trying to understand.

Onward marching on, thats what happens. My only fear of 'harakiri" right now is, o dear, won't the neighbours mock my poor distraught mother.

I would like to see Enigma's take on this article.

Evil Brain:
and the equally daft one about crystal skulls

Can you kindly advance a detailed explanation of this here above sir?

There is so little intellectually stimulating stuff on TV nowadays. That's why I only watch football and al Jazeera.

. . .  . Football and Al Jazeera. . . I guess that says it all!

There is a great deal to be learned on the documentary channels, my friend.

^ O, come on. You both are ridiculously exxagerating. All of those channels remain invaluable resources for the learning mind. You see, I already told you this sort of attitude will do you no good: humanity learns by observations - and thus it is very deflating, very anti-learning, and I must also add, very unscientific, to develop an attitude such as yours, which leads people to become frightened of being mocked for their observations. There are countless people who do not report their supposed UFO sightings for exactly this reason: the fear of mockery. I hope you realize the dangerous similarity that that mockery bears with medieval institutionalized thought.

There is nothing that should not be investigated - and from an open point of view also: NOBODY should ever have the notion that he ought not mention this or that point of view because it is unorthodox and will be mocked. Sincerely I conveyed this point to you FIRST thing once I opened the thread, but I see you could not resist it: you have turned the thread into an or[i]g[/i]y of mockery of anything that does not rhyme with your view: I consider this most ill considered - and in my personal view, will only amount to the equivalent of those who opposed radically correct thinkers in the past: you ought to note this and be careful of this.

Otherwise there is no reason why you should be making statements such as "The Quest for atlantis featuring Jenwitemi " - in a hopelessly misfooted hope to ridicule - whereas I cannot imagine what there is to be ridiculed about the idea that there are lost civilizations on this planet - which is just what the Atlantis legend alludes to. This is all the more worrisome when judged against the fact that you yourself in a post on this thread stated that, yes, civilizations are indeed lost via natural disasters, etc. Shortly after, you turn around to mock people who believe just that. That is irksome: even a tad ch.ildish, if you dont mind my saying so.

I should probably throw into the mix the fact that notwithstanding that you said that natural disasters do erase records, etc, you also demanded where all the lost records are. Please you really need to decide for yourself what you are arguing my friend.

Why is anyone wasting energy over Dawkins, one of the most unintelligent people on the planet? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?

Still on the World War II series on going. War, especially war on the scale of the second world war, as I said earlier, is an effort that consumes and entire society - every industry, every endeavour, every work of construction, even the production of food - are all directed at the war effort. There is thus no way that a small portion of the society alone could prosecute such a war.

In the case of the Nazi Regime, the abominations that they committed were by no means all creations of Hitler's mind. The regime had a huge amount of henchmen who were the brains behind schemes such as medical experiments on children to attempt to create a master race, ideas such as the concentration camps and gas chambers - and all of this was done a massive scale and carried out by millions of Germans.

At the risk of sounding like a broken record I must say that that evinces a people steeped either in the worst form of collective hatred, or a collective desire for proud vengeance which I can scarcely associate with noble promptings. I also need to reiterate that the teaching about keeping a race pure and unadulterated, which justcool has said comes from a noble prompting is an exceedingly dangerous teaching to propagate anywhere. It has the capacity for the most hideous and presumptuous ethnic, tribal, racial and national segregation and discrimination possible. Secondly, given the existence of man on this planet for ages, this idea is pure fantasy: there is not one human being on this planet who is not mixed historically somewhere down the line or the other: and the majority are so genetically mixed that the concept of ethnic purity cannot realistically exist anymore.

Personally, i see greater light, love and harmony in the beauty of unions and mixtures of differing races, ethnicities and backgrounds, such that GOD is glorified the the jubilant coming together of all peoples in all ways, and as such I am inclined to frown upon any suggestion that ideas of ethnic purity somehow arise from any noble promting.

^ Waiting!

^^ You are entirely correct. I withdraw that comment of mine. Thanks.

InesQor:
Not everything in the same physical universe can interact with one another. If we think out of the box, a common example is that of opposite sides of a cube. And yet another one is the possibility of multi-dimensions / planes, within the same physical domain.

Ok, good point. But what I mean is that when you speak about an alien, you are talking about a being not in his own dimension already. A being in his own dimension is not an alien - he is at home. A Nigerian in Nigeria is not an alien. A Nigerian in New York could be an alien. So once you use the word "alien" you are already referring to one in a domain not his. Hope you get my drift. But anyway, I must say I do get your point, and it is well taken. Justcool would certainly agree with you. I guess I am being tediously word-sensitive.

I guess I must have really needed this reminder for the sake of participating in the discussion or understanding this thread. You obviously have a staggeringly good memory.

Hahhaha. Abeg no vex o, that was just a joke to tease you? Friends still?

InesQor:
Aliens may or may not exist; but even if they do I don't believe we can interact with them experientially; any more than a character in a movie can interact with a character in another movie.

This would suggest different realities, whereas the very concept of aliens ab initio envisions beings in the same physical universe. As such, this is a contradictory position [size=2pt]akin to those of your mavenbox days. [/size]

Martian:
The least we can say is somebody name Iesous or yeshua existed, got killed and then a legend arose around him. Won't be the first time.

And this is sufficient to close my contentions on this thread.

Thread fulfilled.

Thanks.

And can anyone observe the size of this stone in relation to the man standing on it? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?

And this is the size of stone that ancients would not onlt cut, but move about and even lift high into pyramids abi?

^ Why did you run away from the issue of Elijah and hot gbegiri in my Ancient Aliens thread?

Martian:
Another thing, if advanced technology and scientific knowledge were known to the ancients, how come a simple polio vaccine had to be invented in 1952. How come they died of diseases like plagues and syphilis?

O come now and be reasonable. Let us be clear -

1. It is not suggested that the ancients themselves had this technology necessarily. It is suggested that they may have seen such technology (such as aircraft) at some points in their history and recorded such as art

2. Thus your question on Polio and Syphilis is moot

3. However, even if the ancients were advanced, it would be unreasonable to expect that evidence of advancement must mean the capacity to treat every conceivable diesease. Heck, today mankind is quite advanced and yet manny dieseases defy treatment. Please let us not make unreasonable suppositions!

How come civilizations that had access to alien technology and knowledge worshipped the freaking sun?

And what is wrong with worshipping the sun? ? ? ? ? ? ? That is a matter of culture. Indians and many oriental people of today worship a great many concepts of gods and that doesn't take away their technological acumen.

Please these arguments of your fall very flat.

Now, to ensure that we avoid these sorts of wrong arguments, let me ask you some clear questions on your position so that I can address the thread better.

1. Is it your position that it is absolutely impossible for intelligent beings to exist or have existed outside the earth elsewhere in the universe?

2. Is it your position that No. 1 may be possible, but there has to be evidence first?

3. Is it your position that there has been absolutely NOTHING whatsoever by way of observation or evidence as to suggest that intelligent beings do exist and have existed outside the earth?

4. Is it your position that every single UFO sighting in history is a misconceived sighting?

5. Is it your position that the totality of ancient writings, artwork, monuments, etc ALL evince NOT A SINGLE REASON to legitimately open one's mind to the possibility of extra-terrestial visitations?

6. Is it your position that the concept of extra-terrestial visitation is inherently ridiculous and absurd and as such should at all times be discarded as delusional by reasonable people?

Please answer these, so I have a better idea as to how to approach the discussion.

aletheia:
^

Pluto exists in this (according to you) seventh part of existence wherein we reside. . .so by your belief system it is accessible by us. Pluto is directly observable by telescopes and a man-made probe Voyager 1 has gone beyond Pluto's orbit and is currently approaching interstellar space so it is conceivable that with a fast enough propulsion system, men may reach Pluto.

You are right here. Perhaps Justcool did not give a proper analogy, for Pluto is indeed accessible.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/5/5c/Voy1_8feb2012.jpg/170px-Voy1_8feb2012.jpg

Your thesis is inconsistent. You say existence is divided into seven more or less hermetically sealed parts with no possibility of interaction or exchange between these seven parts. How then did you know the other six parts exist? You more or less are stating the idea of the existence of parallel universes in other ways.

However what he means is that the seven parts of the universe cannot be bridged physically, but can be observe from a higher non physical realm - a spiritual realm.

@ Justcool, if there is only one planet-world in each of the seven areas, does this mean that there are only seven planets bearing life and beings like the earth in the whole universe?

Martian:
Well,if someone says his peace and the so called viewpoints sound like Harry potter/ twilight magic of flying and going to other realms, I'll rather excuse myself. If you think it's intolerant, that's just your viewpoint.

Well i was the one who invited you here and not justcool? So you should abandon the thread based on my views, and not his, right?