₦airaland Forum

Ariani:
You are funny.

Ndiigbo had little or no interactions with Yorubas in our recent memory.

Don't kid yourself.

"Igba Afa" has no direct link with Ifa. It's only with knowledge of linguistics that made available the Info on the divergence of Igbo and Yoruba from the YEAII common root eons, that I tried to link Ifa with Afa, using other shared words like Okwute and Okuta, as well.

It doesn't mean Ifa is Afa.

You insult Ndiigbo when you claim we borrowed our omenani Afa from you.
It's an insult.

We can easily claim you copied Ifa from our Afa,but the average Igbo man has no interest in such ridiculous claims, we mostly mind our business while all of you be looking for our trouble with your blatant pokenosing and distortion of our history that you know nothing about.

It's outrightly insulting. You don't do such and don't expect a proud Igbo man like me not to retaliate.

If you think it is an insult because an Igbo Dibia uses afa divination, then what do you want the people from other areas who share the same divination with the Odu ifa to say?

In Ewe, Ghana and Togo, it is known as Afa. It is in Benin republic as Fa. Same Ifa is in Brazil.

It has been extensively studied by UNESCO and added to one of the Masterpieces of the Oral and Intangible Heritage of Humanity.

I would suggest you do more research on this subject before you come to a hasty conclusion that Afa is in no way related to Ifa.

bomb24:
Oga Benin was defeated by a force of 200 men and not basically 3000 as you implied. history revision will not be tolerated on this forum.

have you heard of the maxim gun?

Do you know how Lord Lugard took over Kano?

Do you know what ancient Kano was?

Do you know about the might of the British empire?

Do you know what a canon barrage can do?

Ariani:
Well it's main deity in all Igbo dialects and used interchangeably with Chukwu, Chineke, Chiokike and Obasi.
The equivalent in Yoruba should be Olorun or Oluwa.

So obviously Orisa in Igbo is not same as that of Yoruba. Orisa is a dialectical variance of Olisa, Olise, Orise , in Igbo dialectical continuum.
They are just a coincidence.

a god might be major in your territory and not so major in another. It doesn't change the fact that orisa means god in yoruba land. It is not a penile wagging competition

Ariani:
Don't be stupid.

Afa has nothing to do with Ifa.
It only proves that Ndiigbo had earlier contact with Yorubas before we branched off.
We all once once had an YEAII ancestor.
So we share certain words that originated from a common ancestor we shared in the past.
It doesn't mean any of us borrowed from each other.

Other exams is stone.

Igbos call it Okwute, Yorubas call it Okuta.
Who borrowed from who?
Nobody.
Both evolved from a a known extinct common ancestral root word.

Since you dote every response with an insult, then the problem possibly has to be with your upbringing. It didn't start today.

you started off so sure of your self, saying afa has nothing to do with ifa (which shows how uninformed you are on the subject) then you backtrack and says it then implies Igbos had contact with Yorubas before they branched off.

The simple fact is that the Yoruba Ifa divination (Odu Ifa) is the source of all Ifa canon, a fact which is accepted by all who are well versed in the subject.

I am only responsible for what i say, not what you understand.

Ariani:
Nope it is not, at least not in the context of God.

In Igboland, there is a R and L divide between Anambra and Imo state.
Anambra Igbo tribes use L for most things, while the Imo tribes use R.

For example.

Madness is "Ara" in Imo dialects while in Anambra dialects, it's "Ala".
Water is " MMiri" in Imo dialects, in Anambra it's "Mmili".

In same manner, Olisa in Anambra, is Orisa in Imo, while in Ndokwa/Ukwuani, it's Orise.
Because in Ndokwa/Ukwuani dialects, "a" in other Igbo dialects are often replaced with "e".

Eg two "abuo" in central Igbo, but is "Ebuo" in Ndokwa/Ukwuani/ Ogbaru dialects.

So you can see how Olisa in Anambra can quickly change to Orisa in Imo and then to Orise in nearby Ndokwa/Ukwuani.

Orisa is god in yoruba....refers to the lesser gods and not the main deity.

YungMillionaire:
Orisa is 100% Yoruba though. It is Oritse in Itsekiri.

The Afa divination in Igbo is based on the Yoruba Ifa.

Boudiccao:
That doesn't wipe away the fact that what stands till date is that the Igbos have the oldest civilization in Nigeria and the scholars insist that manilla in West Africa should be verified before explaining its presence in Igboukwu.

And since you are desperate to prove that Igbo civilization is not the oldest then you would do well and wait for the new studies on Igboukwu artifacts as it is oldest Civilization in Nigeria till tomorrow.

please explain what you mean in the bolded so we can be on the same page on this

Boudiccao:
Scholars insist the origin of Manillas in West Africa must first be studied and clarified before going back to the manilla found in Igboukwu.

Scholars actually know how manillas got to africa. What they insisted is that since manilla was found among the artefacts discovered in Igbo-Ukwu, the 9th century dating using 1950s technology could be wrong. I believe a new carbon dating project would resolve this issue on the other items. Carbon dating cannot however put manillas in 9th century.

IDENNAA:
How did tiny Bini become an "empire ? " What made you an empire.

Archeologists did the carbon testing not my Igbo village. Some of the metal works may have been made in 15th century which is actually 1400s

Benin became an empire when Oba Ewuare became king, amassed an army and started taking over territories around 1440. He was the first of the 5 warrior kings. His son, Oba Ozolua was believed to have won 200 battles. It was Oba Orhogbua that stretched his empire beyond the River Niger in the east and Ghana to the west. Trade with the Portuguese expanded their wealth and might and funded the expeditions. (SOURCE: BBC website)

The manilla bronzes were brought in by the Portuguese merchants and would have found their way to Igbo land possibly via commerce long after Benin started accepting manilla, not before.

Boudiccao:
That's what I am telling him.
The beads found in Igboukwu have only been found in Igboukwu and predate the coral beads Europeans brought to Benin.

Lets start from a position of facts.

You claim the Ukwu artefacts were dated to the 9th century

Manillas were found among the artefacts.

The Europeans brought Manilla in the 15th Century

How did European manillas of the 15th century get teleported back to the 9th century?

facts

Boudiccao:
Because you questions are illogical and come from a place of bile and desperate to prove Igbos had no civilizations and only Benin did.
You Benin dey learn work.

You obviously did not read where i said am not Benin. I am not from a place of bile. Actually, there is a Domino's joint with Coldstone not far from where i am typing this and believe me, Coldstone Ice-cream does not taste like bile.

Why must where we come from matter when facts are being discussed?

As at this moment, my questions remain unanswered.

Which Asian kingdoms were the Igbos trading with in ancient periods? What weapons were the Igbos using in the 15th century?

Boudiccao:
Igboukwu is dated 9th century AD and the beads are from Egypt and Venice.


Igbos have embarked on long distance trade.


Europeans brought Coral beads to Benin but the beads in Igboukwu are older, pre Portuguese and are linked to Egypt.


Igboukwu has no business with whatever you were doing with Europeans.
Igbos are your masters when it comes to civilization.

Please read "Dating Problems at Igbo Ukwu" which was published by Cambridge University Press in 2009. The 9th century source was published in 1959 By Shaw

and don't forget the manilla.

How did manilla get there before the europeans?

Boudiccao:
You are wrong. I can see you are desperately trying to convince yourself and other bigots like you that Igbos have no civilization and that Benin had the oldest civilizations in Nigeria. Dead on arrival.
You cannot mention the civilization of Nigeria without first mentioning Igbo civilization. It must be hard for you.


The Lejja, Opi and Igboukwu sites are all connected to the Igbos because the techniques used in the sites where still practiced by the Igbos.
The Igboukwu artifacts for example capture the cultural legacy of the Igbos that lived in that area, most of the artifacts are cultural symbols used for religious rituals and represented the culture of the Igbos.
On the faces of the bronze works are the Ichi scarification practiced by the Igbos found in that area.


The other goods found there and not found elsewhere proves that it exclusively belonged to the Igbos and created by Igbos.




Some of the other goods found there are foreign and a testament to the fact that Igbos were involved in long distance trading before You Nigerians became conscious.



Quit the obsession,it is making you look better. In your twisted head, it was Benin that had a civilization and never Igbos.

Igbos were smithing Bronze long before Bini and Yoruba that started in the 13th century and still have the audacity to ask for what Igbos were doing in the 15th century just because that was when the white people met Benin. LMAO.

Can you have a conversation without being rude or insulting? Can you push your ideas forward without disrespecting the other party? Why must you sound this way?

now back to the conversation, I have tried to answer your observations in my recent responses to Idennaa

IDENNAA:
LMAO; the bronze made by the Igbo Ukwu artists bears Nri themes. Facial scarification like ichi and burial styles of Nri.

Next

Very good. If the bronze bears similarities to the culture of the new-to-area Nri Igbos, don't you think this implies that the bronze were recent too?

If you dig a site and see Iphone 12 located among the items, won't someone from our era be able to identify it? Can we say the same Iphone 12 was relevant to people who died 200 years ago or more related to people who lived in 2020?

IDENNAA:
Igboukwu bronze made by Igbo blacksmiths are the oldest and most sophisticated artworks found in Nigeria.

You people thought because we didnt allow one greedy overfes man rule over us we didnt make great inventions. You love monarchy and having one man call the short for you while we want everybody's opinion. We are Igbo !!

Igbo-Ukwu artefacts have their dating challenged as some of the artefacts have very history-recent items and even contain manillas and beads which every historian knows came with the Europeans in the 15th century.

for further reading; The Journal of African History , Volume 14 , Issue 1 , January 1973 , pp. 1 - 8

Boudiccao:
Igbos made Bronze works centuries before others. You should read not ask.


Igbo civilization predate that 15th century nonesense you keep spewing and were already conducting long distance trades and in possession of Asian and North goods yet to be found in other parts of Southern Nigeria.

Of course, Europeans first met Bini that live close to the sea and will naturally trade with them.
Igbos live in the hinterland.

The existence of pre-historic people in present day Igbo land does make them Igbos.

Even the people in Leggie and Igbo-Ukwu cannot trace a direct tradecraft lineage to the pre historic peoples who once lived there.

If the whole of USA inhabitants died today and a group of people moved there after 500 years, will we say the new group had the same american technological progress?

My question is, and i believe a lot can learn from it is this....What weapons were in use by the Igbos who lived in present day Igbo land in the 15th century when the Benin were raiding villages for slaves with modern war gear? Please back the answer with verifiable evidence?

Now that you infer that the Igbos were civilised as at 15th century and traded with people in Asia at that period, can you please assist us with reliable sources to back such claims?

How did the asians ship the goods? Which goods? Which Asians? Which currency?

Please no insults.

Thanks

Boudiccao:
It is now weapons. You are asking me for weapons when Igbo civilization and blacksmith predate every other civilization and artisans in Nigeria to the point that others had to employ the services of Igbo blacksmiths.

Damn!

Is that too much to ask?

Or wars are now waged with Udu drums and trumpets?

Please try and understand me.

My discourse is that in the 15th century when the Portuguese came around, the only kingdom worthy of such international trade was the Benins.

Boudiccao:
Then I would like to inform you that Igbo civilization predate both Benin and Yoruba civilization. Archeology is there to back it up.
Igbos have oldest civilization and history of the entire Nigeria after the Nok people and one of the earliest civilization in West Africa.


Igbos started Blacksmithing before any other Nigerian groups and the Awka group of Igbos were making sophisticated weapons as of that time which they sold to other Southern Nigerians groups.

Let's just say, Igbos introduced Technology to Nigeria so when you fabricate this rubbish of Igbos coming from primitive culture,i wonder exactly the sort of bigotry coming on in your heads when ironically Igbo civilization and technology predate Yoruba and Benin civilizations put together.

On slavery, Igbos sold other Igbos to Ijaws, Ibibios and Benin including other seaside people so this your narratives of Benin invading Igbos is total fallacy and fantasy.

Can you show evidence from proper research showing the weapons invented by the Igbos by the 15th century? Not myths and hand me down stories but pictures of swords, helmets, metal shields or the likes invented and used by the Igbos in 15th century?

Ariani:
Stop writing nonsense.
No man could ever penetrate Igboland that is not Igbo himself.

Bight of Biafra (Bonny) is totally different from Bight of Benin.

Funny that you talk about fairy tales, because honestly speaking, everything about Bini history are all Fairy tales. Infact in Igboland, our way of saying that a story is a fairy tale is by calling it Oba and Idu tales, "Akuko Idu n'Oba".
Bini was a mushroom kingdom that was lucky enough to stumble on weapons from the Portuguese that it used to terrorize it's Ika and Owo neighbors.
But once weapons proliferated, these groups fought back and kept Bini well contained.

No stupid army raided Igboland. Bini couldn't even get past Aboh Kingdom without being pegged back. Stop with your fables.

Igbos have far more advanced weaponry and sophisticated democratic system of governance than Binis could ever think of. Infact oka blacksmith went as far as Edo land to teach you lots metallurgy.

Bini were little scared minorities who built the Moat to protect themselves from the Ikas who were raiding you and causing you havoc. Ask yourself why the Moat was facing East and not West.

The Portuguese chose you because you were savages who were willing to go hunt for slaves for them among your fellow blacks, using Portuguese weapons as advantage.
You should be ashamed of your shameless ancestors,yet you are here taking glory in your shame.
Immediately the weapons went round, those Ikas and Owo Yorubas whooped your sorry stupid asses.

Arochukwu story has nothing to do with Bini.
Stop meddling into a history you Know nothing about.

On Nairaland, i have had countless encounters with people who are quick to talk but slow to reason.

If you read my post well, you would note that i said Bight of Benin encompasses present day Bight of Bonny. I didn't say it is the same.

If the Oba of Benin's conquests was petty and irrelevant, why do the Igbos have tales about it? Do the Benins have tales about Igbo conquests?

Benin did not stumble on weapons as if they were left on a bush path, they traded for bronze, made swords and later traded for muskets many years before any other kingdoms in the area. The Nri or Arochukwu kingdoms did not even exist as at this time.

Weapons proliferated only in the 17th/18th century. In the 15th centuries, very few people had serious weapons and it has been evidenced to be the Benins and not the Igbos. You can refute this by providing documentary evidence, if you have.

The Igbo Awka blacksmiths came to prominence in the 17th century. There are no records to back the myths that claim they started bronze smelting earlier than that. Present day Awka was a jungle notorious for elephant hunting during this period. How do you smelt metal in a jungle filled with elephants? How did the Igbos get their ores at this time?

The Benin moat was an all rounder that secured the city. It didn't just face the east.

Finally, I am not from Benin. Where my ancestors came from does not matter to this discourse. Facts are simply facts. Insults are not signs of intelligence. Cant we all discuss history without getting petty and abusive?

As a side note, can you see how Reno calmed the other guy, teaching him on civility in conversations?

Chest beating does not change what happened in the past. Those who fail to learn from their history are bound to also repeat it.

Ariani:
You are not okay.

No man born of human ever penetrated Igboland and went Scot free.

Igbos had no useless kings that once captured everyone else bows down to the one who captured the king.
It made it hard to defeat Igbos. We had council of elders and leaders of age grades, as well as titled men council who all gather and take decisions.
We were way more advanced than primitive Monarchical societies where one retarded fat king dictated for all man.

Bini kingdom fell to British in matter of days, while the British needed decades to defeat the Enuani Igbo clan.
Aro-Anglo war was on for years. Full blown war.
No ethnicity in Nigeria, pre colonial or post colonial had more capabilities of withstanding and resisting tyranny, invasion or colonialism than Igbo land.

Stop bringing your beer parlour gist outside

In as much as personal chest beating is allowed, historical facts are historical facts.

Your opening statement (no man has born of a human da da da....) is not factual.

The available history that can be verified ( and not the fairy tales) told by drunk old men over fermented palm wine state the following:
-Benin kingdom was one of the oldest, richest and strongest kingdoms in the whole of present day west africa.
-The Bight of Benin, which is the whole coastline starting from Ghana to present day Nigeria shorelines and even encompassing present Bight of Bonny (formerly Bight of Biafra) was named after Benin kingdom due to the bustling trading activities with Benin
-in the 15th century, only 4 notable kingdoms existed in what is present day Nigeria; The Borno, Hausa, Benin and Oyo kingdoms. The Portuguese chose to deal with the Benin.
-Initially, trade was focused on agrarian commodities like pepper and palm oil and ivory but soon, slaves were added to the mix.
-Slavery was existing in these regions before the Europeans arrived. The Benin moat for example was built almost 300 years before the Portuguese arrived. The construction could only have happened using slave labour.
-The Portuguese paid for goods with bronze or copper anklets (called manillas). These manillas were smelted back by Benin blacksmiths to make bronze items, including swords and artefacts.
-Very soon, the Benins were able to also buy muskets from the Portuguese.
-The Benin king had a standing army and a reserve army. The combination of these fighting men was large enough to raid distant villages in order to supply the high demand for slave labour.
-There were many other human settlements that were within attacking distance to the Benin armies. As at the 15th centuries, many of these settlements were not properly armed or large enough to counter the military raids by the Benin kingdom.
-To make matters even worse, the Benin kingdom was rich enough to employ Portuguese mercenaries to accompany them on such raids.
-The Igbos of the 15th century period settled in small primitive clans with no advanced weaponry and were easy to raid. Many Igbo settlements were dislodged during these periods and moved more eastwards. Some Igbos arrived in Aro region in the 17th century and after some skirmishes with the resident Ibibios, the Arochukwu Kingdom was formed. This was almost 200 years after the Benin had been dealing in slaves with the Portuguese.
-The Arochukwu kingdom, being one of the first big Igbo kingdoms did not waste time and started raiding smaller Igbo clans for slaves. When they could not raid, they sent their own citizens to slavery via the use of the oracle. People who committed petty crimes were sentenced to be devoured by a deity in the tunnels of Ibini Ukpabi but in reality, they were led via the tunnels to the waiting hands of slave traders. The rivers were then coloured red to make the relatives waiting think the condemned people have been killed.
-It is estimated that 14.6% of all slaves sold between 1650 and 1900 via the Bight of Bonny were Igbos
-Unfortunately, the slave traders did not care about where you came from. Once you were vulnerable, you were eligible to be sold.
-Slave trade, is the greatest reason for West Africa's present underdevelopment. It fuelled many of the problems we still have today. Greed, lack of trust, human sacrifice, religious dependence, beliefs in myths, corruption, inter tribal wars etc all have roots with slavery.
-Africa would be a different continent if not a single soul was sold to slavery.

youngpresidooo:
spiritual life is different from physical. It is easy to act by flesh. There are good act that we display that we do that are even against God and have repercussions.
I will cite a true life story that happened.
It was in Ekiti around Adebandele in Ado-ekiti.
There was a renounced building for ogboni that caught fire, one good christian who felt she should show love took bike and was rushing to call the fire service, guess what? She had an accident only God saved her. But guess what God told her, he said always listen to me before taking actions,how will you want to put off fire that I set?
I paraphrase according to her, when God is dealing with the wicked never try to help or else you might put yourself into trouble.

Should we not be tired already of people who form stories and say ‘God told me…’?

CandyOps:
I think most christian denominations and even some christians can see right through TB Joshua and his gimmicks. So they low-key considered him a charlatan.

They are simply envious.

The guy was a real giver. He gave to people who could not pay him back. He is not a cash harvester like many of the other pastors. This is why they envy him.

Video was a waste of time. No hammer was used in threatening anyone

baddosky1:
****Looks at OP's profile picture...

OP is definitely gay!

Just checked.

Its a gay advert thread.

Adonis86:
As I was going through my phone this afternoon, a lady chatted me and I responded. She said she wants to ask me a question, that I shouldn't be angry with her. I assured her that I won't be hard on her. She asked me if I'm a gay. I responded No. She sent me a screenshot of a conversation I had months ago who I later learnt to be her husband. I asked her why she asked of my sexuality, she said she's suspecting her husband of three years to be a gay. It sounds so crazy to me but I suspect it's real due to the screenshot of the message, where the guy was demanding for sex from me. Now, I inquired more about their relationship as couple and found out he beats his wife often, even during her first pregnancy.

Now, the man confirmed to me that he beat the wife last night for going through his phone conversation and labelling him a gay, due to the kinda conversations he's been having with guys. But in a bid to deny it, he deleted the conversation and beat her up on false accusation. The lady has reported to their Reverend in church, but the Reverend discouraged her from going to Human rights commission or leaving the marriage.

Now, she's looking for more evidence to nail the husband. She wants me to send her the whole conversation I had with the husband, showing where the husband was begging me for sex and sending me his nude pictures. But I don't want to be that instrument she'll use to break up her young family. Though the annoying part is that the husband is very resentful and not even remorseful about his infidelity and domestic violence. The lady is not educated though wanted to learn a skill or go for further studies, but the husband refuses to send her to learn all those skills. According to her, he once accused her in his shop for stealing 45k, which was not true. He stopped her from coming out to his shop, whenever she comes out to stay with him in the shop, he'll be talking her down in the presence of his friends and customers. I was moved by her lamentations, that's why I had to take the pain to write this. I have contacted the husband on Facebook and inquired about the dispute and learnt the lady was saying the truth. Though I threatened the husband with military arrest if he ever touches the wife. But I'm still scared he might get home and pounce on the wife again for talking to me.

Please i need matured advice from people here on how matured to settle this young family dispute without the poor lady suffering further in the hand of this young man.

The fact that you assume all your readers would fall for this watery story says a lot about your person in real life.

You are a liar.

You are either gay ( i have no issues with that) or you formed the story.

No man, sane or insane would start sending his nudes to another man except they are both on similar sexual planes. You received the pictures and conversations and kept cool until the wife discovered?

Drop me here please. The fable no tight.

i have Dr Fone Whatsapp Transfer key for sale. (PC)

use it to transfer your whatsapp from android to iPhone or vice versa.

contact me via text or call on 08055586999. i am also on IMessage.

price is 5k and not negotiable

The level of tribal hate in this country....even pigs of different breeding still accommodate themselves better than this.

No matter how sound your argument is, the moment it reflects your hatred for another group of people based on where they come from, you have shown how irrelevant your comments are

How did gunmen kill a driver and his wife who were driving fast in Nigeria?

Were the gunmen snipers who were positioned already at that section waiting for the driver?

Placing a sniper shot on a target moving at an average of 100km/h is not kid's play, albeit our AK47 or local pistol welding gun men in Nigeria with their shoddy aim and poor training

Let's ask the right questions

Denn:
Hello People

The Baales and families of some villages near Wasinmi (On the Express linking Sango Otta to Abeokuta, Just After Ewekoro) have Acres of farmland for sale.

The land is currently at N250,000 now N300,000 now N350,000 per acre.

Parcels are free from government acquisition.

If interested, you can contact me via whatsapp on o8o-555-86-999. Whatsapp only pls.

I have my farm acreage over there too...

Thanks.

EDIT on 14th Sept 2020

This is an old post.... It is surprising that people still want to buy land at the same price as it was advertised 5 years ago.

Where is he now?

ajl:
Do you know that in ancient Egypt there was a god of chaos and a goddess of order. The daily battle in human life is dominated by these two deities. Nothing has changed to this day. Evil and negative human activities thrive under chaos and that's why nothing good can come out of a chaotic and disorderly society. All the individuals holding this country to ransom can only thrive under chaotic and disorderly conditions, and that's why they will fight to death against instituting order into daily human activities in Nigeria.

Maat, refers to the ancient Egyptian concepts of truth, balance, order, harmony, law, morality, and justice. Is there anything more Godly than this?

There is also a god of common sense in east uganda that slaps people who share fables once in a while...

theoneJabulani:
How things have changed, I remember those times at abule-egba

You really know what'sup

Social club road

Mama nkechi's bar

Those times....