₦airaland Forum

N2gether:
I was showing you the outputs of my development team of 8 ai engineers that I'm currently testing out as a POC for a client.

I've given them a design brief and thier working in sprints to deliver under the supervision of the AI lead architect and the product owner who assign work as tickets, track sprint velocity conduct sprint ceremonies, automated unit tests and even detailed code reviews. The code base is maintained in a local git repo. All self managed by the largely autonomous agents under my direction

I'm evaluating the performance and output of these agents on behalf of my client to see if there's a business case here. So they're coding locally on my machine, running via a plugin directly in Vscode so that they have direct access to the codebase.

So basically product and project manager? I call them 'Chief Everything Officers' - they know a little of everything from the engineering to design and to growth. Nice.

NihilistJnr, you mentioned you haven't coded since 2007. What are you doing with VS Code? I couldn't help but notice it on your icon tray. You get nostalgic sometimes?

nihilistjnr:
Bro im telling you that Im telling you that the drive for cheap tech talent is so serious that busineses are taking several aggresive steps to look for talent elsewhere.

I'm currently running a proof of concept for a client to see of we can even move to entirely ai development teams

Right now I'm working with a budget of about $1200 on API credit accross anthropic, openAI, deepseek, and Gemini, and $300 a month to for premium chatbot access to Chatgpt and Claude.

In the last week I've setup a 8 agent team, with team lead, product owner, 1 back end, 2 front end, 1 ML engineer, 1 security lead, and a comms engineer. All executing using the cline plugin of Vscode to deliver to prompts calling the different apis I described earlier

These agents under my supervision have come up with comprehensive and i mean comprehensive solution design with clearly defined architectural principles that they are all aligning to. They have created an emailing system through which they communicate with each other and broken down the work into tickets following a clearly defined guidelines, which are then assigned to the team members by the product owner agent to complete in sprints.
These ai agents are submitting their work and evidence unit/smoke tests for code review to the team lead agent

I haven't written a lick of code since 2006 or 2007

So far so good looks incredibly promising, but I'm waiting to see what the final product looks like before I can actually draft the business case to my client.

This is why I'm telling you that any software engineer worth their salt isn't collecting N200k as a salary. Firstly you will know your worth, your skill and have a ranking of your abilities relative to the job market, and it's based on that you will accept 200k in used sanitary pads. Secondly the demand for cheap by western standards is so huge bruv. I remember when I went to Wroclaw in Poland for a few months to go and sit with a cheap af dev team that couldn't speak English in about 2018, now the Polish economy has advanced so much to the point where offshoring to Poland is not really an option anymore, and infact, some Polish companies are offshoring to England to take advantage of the Japa wave from Nigeria and England.

This is why my current client now looking to AI as a lot of the usual source countries are getting far less cheaper. Nigeria is already a key target location in the recruitment drive.

If as a developer in Nigeria, you cant earn more than 200k a month, you're not good enough. Get your skill up nigga cos you're TRASH.

I agree. Then that's me who scouts LinkedIn and X regularly seeking these opportunities. That's me who's learnt to develop people skills so I know how to write that cold mail or cold DM without coming off as desperate. That's me and others who are on the lookout to connect and know how to navigate the seeming random interactions in the nested comment sections of X posts to better our chances.

The range was #200,000 to #350,000 as posted by Amoto, no? The candidates would scale interviews, no? They'd take it. The many fintechs springing up in Lagos and Abuja are offering those pays too, and higher. The requirements are still the same you'd require for the roles you hire for. The requirements for a developer role are the same in Nigeria, India or the U.K.

Then there are those who'd turn down the $1,200 monthly pay you are offering because they know building a WP web app/website with a bit of SEO optimisation would get them that amount in 10 days or less.

I thoroughly explained how competence and pay aren't always directly proportional. People would undercut you if they can get away with it. As long as you are useful, employers are willing to pay you #1000 if they can get away with it. Same thing they do under the guise of internship for higher roles, but the requirements are for those of intermediate level developers.

It's up to you to say you deserve more or take the roles then immediately start sourcing for better opportunities. Most developers earning well were nderpaid at first until they actively sourced better payment models.

Erm, it's not just your client - across startups there have been massive downsizing but people are still getting recruited. Since 2022 or so. It's why in my initial response to Diggz yesterday morning, I mentioned boosting with "galaxy pr satellite of skills/services". A frontend guy who understands basic-level SEO and/or UX stands a higher chance because he needs no supervision and is more productive.

diggz:
Thanks! I already have the figures, and I’m certain that the monthly figure you quoted for over 90% of UK doctors is incorrect (Ibime abeg correct me if I’m wrong!). The highest earners should be around £130k a year, and those are consultants. Their monthly pay doesn’t even reach £10k after tax. That said, I believe some consultants can earn as much as the amount you mentioned, or even more, depending on their specialty and experience. However, they would likely get the rest through extra earnings from private practice, etc.

Abeg be careful about throwing around numbers here next time. Anyway, I believe this is Ibime's field; he may be in the best position to clarify their earnings.

My point exactly! Glassdoor and other top salary-averaging websites would have you believe it's all roses but there are doctors earning way less. Then you throw in net salary after tax deduction and it gets gloomier compared to the cost of living in those climes.

Anecdotes on Quora, Reddit and as typified in the Facebook video link when clicked I shared further project these discrepancies.
So, would Nihilist based on his rating yardstick, say that U.S. doctor in the video barely staying afloat while living with his girlfriend is incompetent?

Replace "U.S. doctor" with "Port Harcourt doctor" earning #200,000 to #350,000 despite the inflation and it's the same. How can he refer to the doctors ensuring our well being despite these conditions as quacks or incompetent when the world rates Nigerian-trained doctors highly?


This website says average salary for Nigerian web developers is almost #3 million: https://www.digitalregenesys.com/blog/front-end-developer-salary-in-nigeria . It's good though so foreign coys see it then pay us well but you and I know it's not the truth. It's nothing close to the average salary for web developers in Nigeria.

diggz:
And do these sites specify the level (junior or senior) or specialties of the doctors earning the amount you mentioned earlier?

By the way, what do you mean by 'that’s not the salary cap'? Are you saying they even earn more than £25k per month?

Diggz, you can find the answers to these things online. There are doctors who earn less like this doctor: https://www.facebook.com/share/r/1X63vHeHAz/ .

The point is, there are competent people who take up jobs with salaries you'd consider basic.

nihilistjnr:
Brah if your rebuttal is based on 300l full time student then I honestly don't know what to tell you. I don't know what you earn, maybe you earn more, maybe you earn less than that amount, that's really not my concern

However if there's anything you should take from my submission, it's that whatever you're earning now, if you're at a baseline level of competency, there is someone looking to offer you more, because the recruiting trend for knowledge workers and white collar talent is to shop around in your part of the world for the very best because they are cheaper than what we pay here.

Over here, immigration is such a big threat and big deal that all kinds of nationalist movements are sweeping to power to try and stop big business from switching to only recruiting foreign talent and services. The most powerful country in the history of mankind is currently in the middle of a trade war that it initiated with its protectionist policies.

Big business is aggressively looking for cheap (by western standards) talent. If you have any type of real talent as a software engineer, you will not be collecting monthly salary of 200k in used condom wrappers. And if you are, not for very long

My first response on this thread was "there are people (students mostly) who would jump at the offer.

DissTroy:
LOL. Mad man.

I had to trace back several clicks to the original post. #200,000 to #350,000 monthly for React and Angular is paltry. But you'd be surprised there are people who'd do it for that amount.

Learning a skill is one thing. Putting a premium on your skill is another thing, and offering a whole galaxy or satellite of services/skills to boost it. Same way there are doctors accepting #200,000 as salaries in Nigeria after 8 years combined of tertiary education. It doesn't make them less skilled than those paid $20,000 monthly.

For example, most state government websites are built on WP and only partly custom-coded in CSS.. But I know a least two firms charging no less than #7 million for just maintenance. Not to build it but to maintain it which is just security scans and software updates like twice a month.

I also use to know someone who could code in no less than 8 programming languages before I could write an HTML code. And within two years, I had made more from coding than him.

There are people (mostly students) who'd take up the offer, paltry as it seems. It mostly depends on the premium you place on your skills and opportunities you explore.

Even at that, I went further to analogize and exemplify stating there are regular people who would take the #200,000 to #350,000 developer job in Nigeria.

And no, unlike other niches, digital tech is standardized. Nextjs or HTML5 in Nigeria is the same in the U.K. If you build a React AI wrapper in Nigeria, it's the same in the U.S.

The techies here only need to scale interviews to get entrenched in the remote role of the U. K. or U.S. company, no? No further certification or requirements. Same for the UX guy in Nigeria.


You grossly underestimate how people undervalue their work. There are gigs I'd curse you for if you offer a certain pay which I've seen others be thankful to have.

You want to see links and reports in the mainstream media of Master's degree holders doing bare minimum jobs for peanuts in Korea, China, Japan and Eastern European countries?

Wasn't it in this same country Ph.D holders applied for Dangote driving jobs?

Isn't it the same country where judges and bankers resign to go be security men and caregivers aka maids in Canada and the U.K?

Not everyone places a premium on their skills. For some it's not exploring opportunities and focusing entirely on immediate survival.

diggz:
Sorry, where did you find this UK monthly salary figure?

Estimates as always on salary grading websites, Quora and Reddit posts... That's not the salary cap, of course.

iamoyindamola:
Those Indians I avoid them on upwork, I think they are intermediary between the client and the freelancer because their offers are crazy and ridiculous
You will be seeing $5 per job while upwork will still remove their commission

Your Nigerian brothers are there too. I understand the place of online bidders. But actual devs who undervalue their work are there. Local-search "remote web developer" on Facebook to see paltry payments as many as decent pay. Filter-search for this month or any time range.

You'd find many commenting and begging to have the paltry pay even posting their portfolios in the comment section.

Tech Cabal ran a story on Motunrayo two months ago, a 300 Level cerebral Unilag engineering student with patents and inventions. https://techcabal.com/2025/03/12/unilag-motunrayo-sanyaolu-engineering

It's easy to get lost in your admiration for her feats to not notice she mentioned earning #50,000 monthly salary on the side to support her inventions. I've been keenly following her since then and I hope she's gotten better pay.

Pray tell, how many of us on this thread who earn multiple times what she earns have patents and inventions?

According to Nihilistjnr she's a quack.

But I am acquainted with 200 Level students earning #600,000 basic monthly salaries while doing gigs on the side in the city I mostly reside in. No less than #1 million monthly.

Are they beter-skilled than Motunrayo based simply on the pay gap.

nihilistjnr:


We're in completely different galaxies.

Brah the best generally don't hang around for long earning the same as the average and the mediocre.

This holds true everywhere. Even right there in Nigeria

No, the best don't always know they are the best and/or aren't willing to jettison what they are comfortable with to risk the uncertain.

Labour laws everywhere require that you at least adhere to the minimum wage. That's the most demand. Since there's no standard software engineering or web developer salary, employers would exploit.

Heck! As at last year, GitHub which most websites, apps and softwares depend on owned by Microsoft had almost all their software engineering team (100 of them) based in India and they paid them less than the standard.

Right on Fiverr or Upwork, there's an Indian or Bangladeshi guy offering to build you a web app for a ridiculous amount of money. Login to see. And these guys put up their portfolios to view publicly.

Asides those in Big Tech Companies, there's no standard salary for software or web developers, even in the U. S.

Your software development skill is just like carpentry or pipe fitting or even neurosurgery - if you don't bargain well or explore better opportunities while at it, that's it.

I won't take peanuts because I place a premium on what I do. You won't do it for the same reason. Other people here won't do it, maybe. But it doesn't mean we are necessarily better skilled than those who take up the jobs.


How come the Nigerian doctor paid #300,000 in the Nigeria migrates and fits in well with the U.K. system, treating and operating like he should and earning £15,000 to £22,000 monthly if, according to you, accepting the #300,000 hitherto made him a quack?

Techies are a luckier because they have the option of working remotely and earning forex, but it doesn't mean Yakubu the furniture maker at Idi-Iroko isn't as competent as McPherson the furniture maker at Carnaby Street.

Ibime:
Dey play

Japa is for the young

There are 50+ year old Doctors in Naija accepting N200k. The ship has sailed for them as far as japa

I was shocked when we organised almost full time nursing care for my grandmother with Doctor dropping by once a week to supervise and take vitals for N70k per month. This was in 2022

From that N70k, he would pay the nurse N40k full time salary and collect N30k for oversight. The nurse goes to my grandmas house everyday for like 10 hours

Now someone who gets the reality on ground.

Some years ago, a certain Ukraine-trained medical doctor was willing to accept even #130,000 as starting salary. Yes, you counted the zeros correctly.

He's an Ogoni guy. About 40 years old then with a wife and kid from the CV he submitted.
And this wasn't a random hospital. It was a top specialist hospital in PH City preferred by oil companies,NNPC, NDDC, and top HMOs.
No opening yet but dude begged to be kept informed.

One of the doctors was being paid less than #200,000 as basic salary but he was also part of surgeries. UniPort graduate. Medical bills by the oil companies alone for their staff was in millions monthly.

Meanwhile, there was a physiotherapist in the same organisation earning almost the same as the doctor with other pecks.


The amount you're paid isn't directly proportional to your professional competence.

https://www.google.com/search?q=doctors+salary+in+nigeria

Averags doctors' salaries in Nigeria: #250,000.
A few years ago, there was a Ukraine-trained medical doctor begging to have #130,000 as salary in Port Harcourt. He jumped at the offer. These things were on my table so I knew how much they earned.

Take the average state-owned hospital or private hospital in Lagos, Port Harcourt or Abuja then find out how much the doctors earn. Now imagine what less economically-viable cities pay doctors on the average. These doctors see patients and perform surgeries every other day.

There were doctors taking crazy risks for NGO jobs in the North East for #450,000 as at last year.

Only recently did Police Inspectors start earning #250,000. It was #150,000 last year. Inspectors.

Trust me, there are people who would jump at that Angular plus React Frontend developer job in Nigeria. Students especially.

Being skilled and very good at what you are different from bargaining and marketing/people skills. I'd send a Twitter link of a guy who can't code if you point a gun to his head but he charges $4,999 for Webflow websites on monthly subscription basis. Skill and value placement be are not the same.

This is the reality.

nihilistjnr:
There's a reason why Ngige and FG tried to implement laws to stop doctors from leaving, and it's because no halfway doctor is collecting 200k salary in monopoly money especially when there's a global skill shortage.

Any doctor staying put on a 200k salary is most likely an organ harvester in disguise. To put it in context, a decent developer working remotely for £500 a month is more than a bargain for a remote employer in the UK where minimum wage is £1960 monthly, and that's literally only going to get you cleaners and McDonald's workers in the UK

Yet that £500 is 1 million naira. A developer that can't find wages 4 times less than a UK cleaner is trash. A developer that is earning almost 200k salary is scamming somebody.

Unless you're a Lords Chosen and have the latest bulletproof vest, I strongly advise that you don't go to that 200k doctor, probably advertising his services on the 200k coders website. It's a setup

Let me give you a reality check. There are so many Port Harcourt residents here so they can confirm what I am about to type next.

Beginning from the Eleme axis of the PH -Aba road, drive through and check out adjoining roads from MTN to Rumuokurushi to Rumuola to Garrison, D-Line all the way to Diobu.

You'd find private hospitals in these areas. Ask them to find out the salaries of medical doctors if many aren't within the #350,000 or less bracket.

KingTom is a medical doctor, no? He might not agree to demarket/devalue his colleagues publicly but if he is up to it or in private, he'd certainly let you in on the reality.

Without revealing too much, I have seen salary sheets. Some for private hospitals preferred by Mobil, NDDC and the likes.

Do you realize there are #3,000 graphic designers and those charging #50,000 to #70,000 for a design? In the same city.

Do you realize there are people charging #5,000 per article and people charging $50 to $100 for a >1,400 word article? In the same city.

Do you realize there are people on Nairaland offering to build websites for peanuts in the Programming Section (they create threads), and there are those who would curse you out if you offer then #700,000 for a website even if you buy the domain and web hosting and provide the UI/UX yourself?

It's about placing a premium on your skills, learning people skills to market it, and exploring opportunities constantly.

diggz:
Tissue paper boy

Congratulations on your brain surgery last week.

Quick recovery is what I wish you.

diggz:
Disst.roy is this you?

LOL. Mad man.

I had to trace back several clicks to the original post. #200,000 to #350,000 monthly for React and Angular is paltry. But you'd be surprised there are people who'd do it for that amount.

Learning a skill is one thing. Putting a premium on your skill is another thing, and offering a whole galaxy or satellite of services/skills to boost it. Same way there are doctors accepting #200,000 as salaries in Nigeria after 8 years combined of tertiary education. It doesn't make them less skilled than those paid $20,000 monthly.

For example, most state government websites are built on WP and only partly custom-coded in CSS.. But I know a least two firms charging no less than #7 million for just maintenance. Not to build it but to maintain it which is just security scans and software updates like twice a month.

I also use to know someone who could code in no less than 8 programming languages before I could write an HTML code. And within two years, I had made more from coding than him.

There are people (mostly students) who'd take up the offer, paltry as it seems. It mostly depends on the premium you place on your skills and opportunities you explore.

TemporaryHansel:
Who’s that?

He knows himself. He's at a bar now drinking to stupor as always.

Taguchi:
And Yamal is the embodiment of that mentality.. the young man knows no fear reminiscent of a young Mbappe.

That's why I was against Messi's return, make him no come transfer trauma and PTSD give these innocent boys ; D

LOL. But you know Yamal and the Last Masia kids keep saying one of their greatest wishes is playing alongside Messi, right?

Don't slander a god.

Taguchi:
Walahi flick has so transformed my team that even at 2 down I wasn't bothered one bit..if na before I for don off phone sleep

Yamal said it best: "Even if they score one goal, or two goals. It doesn't matter. This season they just can't beat us. "

The mentality to still stay composed despite a two goal deficit is something most teams do not have. Only Madrid of yesteryears in recent years had it playing in the UCL.

This Paraga Connoisseur is a magnet for the spambot. Quoting his posts almost certainly guarantees a temporary ban.

diggz:
Sorry, I don’t know who that is. Iya Bilikisu and Gulder is a combination that someone like you would have a vivid memory of because you guys share the same shalanga—the same one where you conveniently take all your photos behind their doors!

Just return the bottles to begin with. And stop drinking to stupor; you are embarrassing us.

Swear you didn't stagger into a gutter last Friday until vigilantes pulled you out. I dare you to swear you don't have bruises on your elbows from falling.

diggz:
Small boy…no dey deny your business

Oh! I almost forgot. Iya Bilikisu said you should return her two bottles of Gulder. Why did you hide the bottles in your trousers?

KingTom:
owned by who?

Forgive our brother, Diggz. It happens when he's inebriated. I guess I'd have to notify estate security to lead home again tonight.

Here's Alex Otti of the LP, the supposed Poster Boy for a revamped Nigeria because he's neither PDP nor APC attending the birthday party of Uzodinma of the APC, the supposed Poster Boy of everything wrong with Nigeria. No, not Uzodinma's but his kids. His kids. https://www.nairaland.com/8412254/uzodimmas-twin-daughters-birthday-governors

While you continue to think the moral divides and sociopolitical consciousness are along partisan lines, those who weild the power know it's just them versus us, the bickering masses bestowing halos and horns on people united in perpetuating themselves at the apex of our society. To their advantage, we would never learn.

LPDP dunking on LPAPC for their voting pattern is akin to a tortoise dissing a crocodile for having scales and 'rough' skin.

If you were any different, you'd have proven it by voting "LP from top to bottom" like you advocated for across all strata of elective political offices two years ago.

LP, PDP, APC or NNPP isn't the problem - it's the individuals. A snake is still a snake even when kept as pet or in the wild. A dove is a dove in your home or soaring in the skies.

Osinbajo is of the APC but more refined than most of the politicians in the opposition you campaign for. Okowa was PDP yesterday but APC today. He was a crook even in the opposition. APC or PDP or LP doesn't automatically designate you a saint or demon.

Kilishihunter:
Don't get your hopes up he'll probably get banned but probably with a lighter sentence
You can't defeat "the powers that be so easily"

You were right. Freaking crooks!

Ibime:
What matters is who controls the purse strings. Amaechi was already APC stalwart in Rivers and a bigger fish (Wike) was brought in to sideline him and he is now irrelevant. Okowa got the dough and the structure so Omo Agege will need to roll with the program or dem go press am like Agege bread

Everytime there's a mention of Agege bread or akara, everyone immediately knows who is being alluded to.

One day you'd all realize the APC, PDP, LP divides are illusionary. The real divides are those who have access to our common patrimonies and those who don't.

APC folks are seemingly demonic defending the Federal Government until you encounter PDP folks viciously attacking critics of the Bayelsa, Rivers or Akwa Ibom State Government.

You want me to reference instances of PDP defenders at the state level setting up a critic with his lover to get his nude pictures just to embarrass him?

Heck! Nollywood actor Moses Armstrong was setup using his ward tagging him a sexual molester because he was against PDP winning. This was in 2022.

They are all vile. There are no saints or angels.

Derumklala12:
Nobody going to push the motion for gyokeres??

Like I said months ago.. that guy is insane

We can only get him in our Fantasy League. Have you seen our financials? You want to get into a €100 million bidding war with Madrid and PSG when we are still battling the validity of Olmo's signing? Good luck.

All great until you happen upon an Indian guy's YouTube channel with less than 2,000 subscribers and thick Punjabi accent who would walk you the process in shorter time without the verbose theoretical explanations.

Almost 48 hours. Still no official pronouncement of a Rudiger ban. Are they thinking we'd just ignore it?

iamoyindamola:
Disstr.oy suppose block you, your wahala too much

Block Diggz? We only disagree, at least recently, on his love for shitty music but his takes on Nigerian sociopolitics are better than his taste in music.

The main reason I visit this thread particularly is, it's not an echo chamber. People have diverse views. I'd take all of the occasional personalized antagonism that comes with frequenting this thread than it becoming a cult where we must agree with each other always.

And it's not like I am a saint - I have antagonised other people on this thread too.

I never keep track of exes, chat with them, or talk about them.


Since I'm not irrational, I consider all options before breaking up. And mostly to avoid drama, I drift away till she gets the message. None of the theatrics of breakups, and certainly not via chats so screenshots don't start flying since women like to play the victim's card.

I'm driven by mentality of abundance. 8 billion people in the world. 210 million in Nigeria. At least 25 million are single women. 33 million Nigerians active on Facebook monthly, and no less than 4 million active single women. That's before factoring in single women from other countries.

So why obsess about an ex or about exes when the options are in millions if I am up to it?