₦airaland Forum

Oblang:
Oga forget that thing. Nothing will happen I repeat nothing will happen if a case is initiated against him... U all will jst rant and rant for nothing online....

You taking that man they cal GEJ for granted. You'll be surprised what he has up his sleeves.

I dare them to initiate any silly case against GEJ. That's when the world will know that corruption didn't start with Jonathan government.

dotun365:
I have seen Bible burning. We make Bibles; they are not hand-delivered by God. It would be problematic to ascribe divine attributes to them, since that would be idolization of the Bible. Once in a while God has stopped some bibles from burning to demonstrate his power doesn't mean the Bible has divine powers in it. Also the Bible because of its size and number of pages takes more time to burn when compared to other books. Do not create idols for your self and worship them

thank you. You know the Word

Zico5:
Imagine, and the pastor u mentioned failed to imbibe in u how to talk to an elder. I don't blame u, strange and alien doctrines has turned u upside. I expect more from u so that I can really know the type of disciples oyakilome is breeding.

And how am I supposed to know I am talking to an elder? Even you profile pix that I just checked has a two years old boy's pic. Or is this your way of changing the topic or making me feel guilty? It is okay for you to insult God's ministers but you are afraid to have your lies openly challenged?

just imagine the type of topic that make front page these days. Do we have any Christian moderators at al?

Zico5:
How many of those pastors are spirit filled. The bible says" the spirit bears witness with our spirit that we are the children of God".

What has the scripture you just quoted got to do with your insinuations?

Zico5:
Some of the so called pastors are paper weight pastors. Are u going to resist or cast out demons with laptop.

And who are the heavy weights? Your pastor? And are you going to cast out devils with a book?

Zico5:
When blind leads blind, both end up in the pit. We should not deceive ourselves with fake doctrines. Some of the pastors are not men of God. They are endtime Pastors.

So in your mind you have just preached?
If you think you know the Word, or you have cast out deviIs, i put it to you that you have not started at all.

Just for your information I am a product of the ministry of the great man of God, Rev Dr. Chris Oyakhilome who made the use of tablets for preaching popular around the world.

And just in case you feel like engaging me in an argument about the scriptures, I'll advice that you look up some of my posts first and judge weda you have what it takes... Mr. paper bible.

God Himself wrote the scriptures on TABLETS of stone. What is wrong if we read the word from TABLETS today. mtcheew. Busy-body.

oaroloye:
SHALOM!



Another attempt to live up to the Flatteries of other people's THEORIES.

[color=#ffffff].[/color] GENESIS 17:1-14.

AND when Abram
was ninety years old and nine,
The LORD appeared unto Abram,
and said unto him,
"I am The Almighty God;
walk before Me, and be thou perfect.
2. "And I will make My Covenant
between Me and thee,
and will multiply thee exceedingly."
3. And Abram fell on his face:
and God talked with him, saying,
4. "As for Me, behold,
My Covenant is with thee,
and thou shalt be
a father of many nations.
5. "Neither shall thy name
any more be called Abram,
but thy name shall be Abraham;
for a father of many nations
have I made thee.
6. "And I will make thee exceeding fruitful,
and I will make nations of thee,
and kings shall come out of thee.
7. "And I will establish My Covenant
between Me and thee
and thy Seed after thee
in their Generations
for an Everlasting Covenant,
to be a God unto thee,
and to thy Seed after thee.
8. "And I will give unto thee,
and to thy Seed after thee,
the land wherein thou art a Stranger,
all the land of Canaan,
for an Everlasting Possession;
and I will be their God."
9. And God said unto Abraham,
“Thou shalt keep My Covenant therefore,
thou, and thy Seed after thee
in their Generations.
10. "This is My Covenant,
which ye shall keep,
between Me and you
and thy seed after thee;

'EVERY MAN CHILD AMONG YOU
SHALL BE CIRCUMCISED.'

11. "And ye shall Circumcise
the flesh of your foreskin;
and it shall be
a Token of The Covenant
betwixt Me and you.
12. “And he that is eight days old
shall be Circumcised among you,
every man child in your Generations,
he that is born in the house,
or bought with money of any Stranger,
which is not of thy seed.
13. "He that is born in thy house,
and he that is bought with thy money,
must needs be Circumcised:
and My Covenant shall be in your flesh
for an Everlasting Covenant.
14. "And the uncircumcised man child
whose flesh of his foreskin is not Circumcised,
that Soul shall be cut off from his people;
he hath broken My Covenant."

TRUST IN WHAT GOD SAYS- NOT WHAT OTHER MEN THEORIZE GOD SHOULD HAVE SAID.

PETER tried to ban Gentile Christians from reading The Bible- and you are going to trust HIM?

[color=#ffffff].[/color] ACTS 15:1-31.

AND certain men
which came down from Judaea
taught the Brethren, and said,

"EXCEPT YE BE CIRCUMCISED
AFTER THE MANNER OF MOSES,
YE CANNOT BE SAVED."

2. When therefore Paul and Barnabas
had no small dissension
and disputation with them,
they determined that Paul and Barnabas,
and certain other of them,
should go up to Jerusalem
unto the Apostles and Elders
about this question.
3. And being brought on their way by the Church,
they passed through Phenice and Samaria,
declaring the Conversion of the Gentiles:
and they caused great Joy unto all the Brethren.
4. And when they were come to Jerusalem,
they were received of the Church,
and of the Apostles and Elders,
and they declared all things
that God had done with them.
5. But there rose up certain
of the Sect of the Pharisees
which believed, saying,

"THAT IT WAS NEEDFUL
TO CIRCUMCISE THEM,
AND TO COMMAND THEM
TO KEEP THE LAW OF MOSES."

6. And the Apostles and Elders came together
for to consider of this matter.
7. And when there had been much disputing,
Peter rose up, and said unto them,
“Men and Brethren,
ye know how that a good while ago
God made choice among us,
that the Gentiles by my mouth
should hear The Word of The Gospel,
and Believe.
8. “And God,
Which knoweth the hearts,
bare them witness,
giving them the Holy Ghost,
even as he did unto us;
9. “And put no difference
between us and them,
purifying their hearts by Faith.
10. "Now therefore why tempt ye God,
to put a yoke
upon the neck of the Disciples,
which neither our fathers
nor we were able to bear?"
11. “But we believe that through
The Grace of the LORD Jesus Christ
we shall be Saved, even as they.”
12. Then all the multitude kept silence,
and gave audience to Barnabas and Paul,
declaring what Miracles and Wonders
God had wrought among the Gentiles by them.
13. And after they had held their peace,
James answered, saying,
"Men and Brethren, hearken unto me:
14. "Simeon hath declared how God
at the first did visit the Gentiles,
to take out of them a people for His Name.
15." And to this agree
the Words of the Prophets;
as it is written,

16. 'AFTER THIS I WILL RETURN,
AND WILL BUILD AGAIN
THE TABERNACLE OF DAVID,
WHICH IS FALLEN DOWN;
AND I WILL BUILD AGAIN
THE RUINS THEREOF,
AND I WILL SET IT UP:
17. 'THAT THE RESIDUE OF MEN
MIGHT SEEK AFTER THE LORD,
AND ALL THE GENTILES,
UPON WHOM MY NAME IS CALLED,
SAITH THE LORD,
WHO DOETH ALL THESE THINGS.'

18. "Known unto God are all His Works
from The Beginning of the World.
19. “Wherefore my sentence is,

'THAT WE TROUBLE NOT THEM,
WHICH FROM AMONG THE GENTILES
ARE TURNED TO GOD:
20. 'BUT THAT WE WRITE UNTO THEM,
THAT THEY ABSTAIN FROM POLLUTIONS OF IDOLS,
AND FROM FORNICATION,
AND FROM THINGS STRANGLED,
AND FROM BLOOD.'

21. “For Moses of Old Time
hath in every city them that preach him,
being read in the synagogues every Sabbath day.”

22. Then pleased it the Apostles and Elders
with the whole Church,
to send chosen men
of their own company
to Antioch with Paul and Barnabas;
namely, Judas surnamed Barsabas and Silas,
chief men among the Brethren:
23. And they wrote Letters
by them after this manner;

“THE APOSTLES AND ELDERS
AND BRETHREN
SEND GREETING
UNTO THE BRETHREN
WHICH ARE OF THE GENTILES
IN ANTIOCH AND SYRIA AND CILICIA.
24. “FORASMUCH AS WE HAVE HEARD,
THAT CERTAIN WHICH WENT OUT FROM US
HAVE TROUBLED YOU WITH WORDS,
SUBVERTING YOUR SOULS,
SAYING,

“YE MUST BE CIRCUMCISED,
AND KEEP THE LAW:”

TO WHOM WE GAVE
NO SUCH COMMANDMENT:
25. “IT SEEMED GOOD UNTO US,
BEING ASSEMBLED WITH ONE ACCORD,
TO SEND CHOSEN MEN UNTO YOU
WITH OUR BELOVED BARNABAS AND PAUL,
26. “MEN THAT HAVE HAZARDED
THEIR LIVES FOR THE NAME
OF OUR LORD JESUS CHRIST.
27. “WE HAVE SENT THEREFORE
JUDAS AND SILAS,
WHO SHALL ALSO TELL YOU
THE SAME THINGS BY MOUTH.
28. “FOR IT SEEMED GOOD
TO THE HOLY GHOST,
AND TO US,
TO LAY UPON YOU
NO GREATER BURDEN
THAN THESE NECESSARY THINGS;
29. “THAT YE ABSTAIN FROM MEATS
OFFERED TO IDOLS,
AND FROM BLOOD,
AND FROM THINGS STRANGLED,
AND FROM FORNICATION:
FROM WHICH IF YE KEEP YOURSELVES,
YE SHALL DO WELL.
FARE YE WELL.”

30. So when they were dismissed,
they came to Antioch:
and when they had gathered
the multitude together,
they delivered the Epistle:
31. Which when they had read,
they rejoiced for the Consolation.

PETER AND PAUL WERE NOT RELIABLE.

PETER wanted to dispose of his Competition.

PAUL just wanted to dispose of EVERYBODY.

[color=#ffffff].[/color] GALATIANS 5:1-4.

STAND fast therefore in the Liberty
wherewith Christ hath made us Free,
and be not entangled again
with the Yoke of Bondage.
2. Behold, I Paul say unto you,

“THAT IF YE BE CIRCUMCISED,
CHRIST SHALL PROFIT YOU NOTHING.”

3. For I testify again to every man that is Circumcised,

“THAT HE IS A DEBTOR
TO DO THE WHOLE LAW.”

4. Christ is become of no effect unto you,
whosoever of you are Justified by The Law;
ye are fallen from Grace.

And your point really is??

Oblang:
What's ur business with the north. Would u say u won't develop ur own region because the north did not develop theirs.. Have u heard of non-oil sector? U all talk as if all Nigeria revenue is from oil...

And what percentage of GDP has come from the non-oil sector so far? And then what is the contribution of the North inside?

That's why we are calling for restructuring.

Then you can hold them responsible for their plight. But as long as you take away their resources and give certain groups money, no matter how huge, it will be seen as national cake, government money, free money and so corruption continues. But when the people know that they are responsible for their own fate, there will be accountability; they will hold their own leaders accountable.

I know I am not saying something that even those strongly opposed to restructuring don't know already. All na politics ... but there is a day of reckoning coming soon for our country where all selfishness an greed will be repaid in full.

Romans 6:23 The payment for sin is death, but the gift that God freely gives is everlasting life found in Christ Jesus our Lord.

We keep hearing of money being recovered and saved. No one is telling or giving account of what the money is used for. Well, you will surely give account, if not today, tomorrow.

1.4 trillion saved. Where?

Gombs:
^^ Weldone bro... Weldone

Thanks ...my pleasure.

Great article... But will Seun and lalasticlala send this type to front-page??

Iphe56:
Watermelon can be grown in sack
... and from the pictures, you will notice the watermelon in the sack is growing better than the one on the soil which were planted on the same day.

Op from which pictures? From what I see, the ones on the ground look better.

I tried growing water melons in July. I saw then sprout after about 5 days. Traveled for two weeks and came back to see nothing. We had rainfall while I was away. At a point, I even suspected one of our security men of removing them. Still wondering what happened.

Muafrika2:
You need to relax. Am unravelling your foundation.

Why not focus on the issue at hand, we are discussing the relevance of the Abrahamic covenant today and it isn't a complex topic at all, unless you would like to make it appear so.

You will not tell how Esau helps your argument for "a spent Abrahamic covenant" yet you want me to lecture you some more on the scriptures?

After you Sir!

Do you even know what the birthright was?

Yes The Word needed to become flesh and offer His life not just to save us from our sins and the dominion of Satan but to bring us into fellowship and oneness with the father.

With the resurrection came eternal life for all men and the New Creation. Without the resurrection man will still be a slave of Sin death and Satan.

The sacrifice of Jesus wasn't just for those after Him but even for the prophets and saints of old. They all hoped for His salvation and for this day (the day of the church) and prophesied about it.

Hebrews 11:39- 40 - And these all, having obtained a good report through faith, received not the promise:
God having provided some better thing for us, that they without us should not be made perfect.

Even Abraham when he got to Canaan realized that the city God spoke about was more than physical.
And Jesus brought us into that city: Zion, the city of God.

Hebrews 11:8- 10 By faith Abraham, when he was called to go out into a place which he should after receive for an inheritance, obeyed; and he went out, not knowing whither he went.
By faith he sojourned in the land of promise, as in a strange country,[/b]dwelling in tabernacles with Isaac and Jacob, the heirs with him of the same promise:
[b]For he looked for a city which hath foundations, whose builder and maker is God.

Hebrews 12:18 For ye are not come unto the mount that might be touched, and that burned with fire, nor unto blackness, and darkness, and tempest,

Hebrews 12:22-24 .But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels,

To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect,

And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant...

Muafrika2:
Did it apply to the children of Esau? He was Abrahams first grandson. If so, how? If not, why not, considering that Abraham's covenant is not spent, in your words?

My words? No Sir! I did not write the scriptures.

How do you intend to use Esau's case to argue that the Abrahamic covenant is spent? Very lame argument indeed. Esau missed out on the birthright because he was profane. Anything that is not of faith is sin.

Hebrews 12:16 Lest there be any fornicator, or profane person, as Esau, who for one morsel of meat sold his birthright.


Just for the records...
Profane; Meaning:
Treating sacred things with contempt, disrespect, irreverence, or undue familiarity; impious. 

Muafrika2:
Secondly, if influence of the Abrahamic covenant is gotten by sharing in ABRAHAM'S faith, as you say, can faith in God in the Absence of Christ still yield the benefits of the covenant ?

There is no faith in God without faith in His Word and the entire Scriptures, from Genesis to Revelation, is centred around Christ.

Muafrika2:
So to Christians, if I get you right.

Did it ever have any benefits to any other people before Christ?

Of course...


Romans 4:16 That is why it depends on faith, in order that the promise may rest on grace and be guaranteed to all his offspring—not only to the adherent of the law but also to the one who shares the faith of Abraham, who is the father of us all,


Remember the New Testament's did not come into force until after the death and resurrection od Jesus Christ.
Jesus actually lived and operated according to the old testament while on earth.

See how he ministered to a certain Jew, a daughter of Abraham.

St. Luke 13:10-16 Now he was teaching in one of the synagogues on the Sabbath.
And there was a woman who had had a disabling spirit for eighteen years. She was bent over and could not fully straighten herself.
When Jesus saw her, he called her over and said to her, Woman, you are freed from your disability.
And he laid his hands on her, and immediately she was made straight, and she glorified God.
But the ruler of the synagogue, indignant because Jesus had healed on the Sabbath, said to the people, There are six days in which work ought to be done. Come on those days and be healed, and not on the Sabbath day.
Then the Lord answered him, You hypocrites! Does not each of you on the Sabbath untie his ox or his donkey from the manger and lead it away to water it?
And ought not this woman, a daughter of Abraham whom Satan bound for eighteen years, be loosed from this bond on the Sabbath day?

Muafrika2:
By whom and in what way?

1. Israel, ?
2. Edrom, ?
3. Christians?

Galatians 3:16 -Now the promises were made to Abraham and to his offspring. It does not say, And to offsprings, referring to many, but referring to one, And to your offspring, who is Christ.

Galatians 3:29 -And if you are Christ's, then you are Abraham's offspring, heirs according to promise.

Muafrika2:
Really?

A covenant is an agreement that involves oath taking. Abraham is the person that with God, made a covenant. He was NOT the covenant.

The covenant was for his inheritance of Canaanites, which is why Michael descended on Jericho and all related Canaan cities with a blood bath. So Abraham's covenant is spent. Especially with Christ coming. He brokered a new covenant. New promises for the saints, and an inheritance of the principalities of all the earth. It's also open to more people, including rebellious ones like you. It's better, will be bloody very soon.

I hope I was clear enough.

Christ is Himself the seed of Abraham and so are we who are His. The Abrahamic covenant is not spent... Its promises are very much obtainable today.

PRINCE4CHRIST:
I like the write up.
But the rebellious act is not the problem, the problem can be found when truth is diverted. Opening church is not evil but can u handle in God's way.

Not so my friend. Many pastors will end up in hell for starting churches. Rebellion is indeed a dangerous sin. I don't know how true these accounts as told by the OP are but I know that while some were sent, others went. Make no mistakes about it. God is a God of order; He is the one building His church and He sets His sent men in the church as He chooses (See Ephesians 4:11-12)
You cannot wish to become a pastor; You are called by God into that office.
And if you were called and sent by one who was called and sent by God, it is important that you submit to that authority. If you sense a call to start out on your own, God will communicate same to His servants. There are also some who were actually called but left too early, without receiving all that was necessary to fulfil that call.

Satan was accused of pride and rebellion and God will not tolerate another rebellion in heaven, so no person of such spirit will enter.

Beautiful story about a Spirit-filled mummy. Thanks for sharing.

Babysho:
The downside to my laptop is that Keys A,Z,Capslock,Shift,F1,Escape do not work but I have an external Keyboard that I'll give free.

Price--- 52,000

seriously? selling for 52k with all dem down sides? ebegi... who games epp?

fr3do:
Father Lord, let me locate my Japanese Billionaire in Jesus Name!

nairaland

Oyinprince:
BTW, Testimony sounds like another Nigerian popular one "I Had no Shoes"

Thought so too.

charlyxx9:
lu

Unh??

14th Of August was amazing... After the successful live ministration of # Okaka by Frank Edwards featuring Victor Ike on a Special Celebration Programme at a Christ Embassy Church (lcc3) Oregun Ikeja Lagos Nigeria.

The Okaka Crooner Frank Edwards.. Break silence with his testimony....
"I borrowed Victor Ike’s Shoe To Church, Then I Had No Shoe To Wear, This When A Friend Becomes Your Blood. If There’s AnyOne Coming To Church For The 1st Time And Some One Invited you. This was how Victor Ike Brought Me To Church. He invited me to Christ Embassy Church and that's how i become a member of BLW.. Its never too late. "

"NOW SEE ME, MY LIFE IS A TESTIMONY..."

An undisciplined Christian just bullied a disciplined but ignorant Christian into believing a lie.

charlyxx9:
why did you say so?and what has that got to do with the above you quoted.

Yeah because these are two Bible based ministries that hold the Word of God as final authority; yet judging from the outward, they are so different and could be said to strongly contrast.

These two churches can trace every doctrine of theirs to the bible and are not easily carried away by new trends or wind of doctrine.
Eg. you will not find a Christ Embassy or Deeper Life church where they use oil or hankies to minister. Like in the bible, you will will not hear screams of Holy Ghost fire and Blood of Jesus in CE or DL. Yet there is the tangible presence of the Holy Spirit in their gatherings such that at the mention of the name of the name of Jesus, every manner of sickness, disease, affliction or devil bows. You will not hear them pray calling for the death of their enemies, yet any enemy worth his name knows better than to go against them.

These two ministries are apostolic by calling and the average CE or DL member doesn't go visiting other churches. While others are having NIFES and NCCF, BLW and DL members separate themselves. Not because they don't think the others are Christians, it has to do with the calling. CE does not belong to CAN or PFN and I was told that DL ministers do not hold executive positions in these organizations.

The average CE and DL member is a friend of the bible and will always refer you back to the Word for solution.

Of course there are differences in expression of faith and mode of worship; while the average DL member is extremely conservative and careful not to be mistaken for worldly, as he boldly expresses his christian faith, the average CE member though mindful of his separation from the world and the need for modesty, is somewhat flamboyant and unapologetic in the bold expression of his faith.

I like listening to Pastor Kumuyi. A friend left his messages on my memory card months ago and I didn't delete them.

I have come to know that only an immature DL member will despise a CE member and vise versa hence my statement concerning the rapture. Because that's our destination, our destiny and the goal of every true believer- to come to the unity of the faith unto a perfect/ mature man; unto the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ- Eph 4:11-13. This will have to happen before the catching away of the saints.

I have had a couple of memorable experiences with DL members which I will share later, God wiling. Some pleasant, others funny, but with much to learn.

And the veil is made of mosquito net... bridesmaid beside her be like... " see am... if she know wetin she resemble..."

What matters is the love, joy and satisfaction jor...

Ken4Christ:
I will love to make my contribution to this thread perhaps that might bring clarity to the subject in discussion.

God started his plan to bless the world through Abraham. He made a promise to him and confirmed it with an oath. "And said, By myself have I sworn, saith the LORD, for because thou hast done this thing, and hast not withheld thy son, thine only son:That in blessing I will bless thee, and in multiplying I will multiply thy seed as the stars of the heaven, and as the sand which is upon the sea shore; and thy seed shall possess the gate of his enemies; And in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed; because thou hast obeyed my voice." Genesis 22:16-18

The covenant Abraham entered with God was not connected to the global promise. It has to do with the land of Canaan. Abraham wanted to have an assurance that the land of Canaan will be his. Then, God cut a blood Covenant with Abraham. Genesis 15:7-18.

Before the promise God made to Abraham came into fulfillment, God entered into a covenant with the Jews that brought in the Law of Moses. This is what we refer to as the Old Covenant.

This Old Covenant was only to last until the promise God made to Abraham came to fulfillment through Christ. Galatians 3:18-25.

So, when Christ came, he had to end the Old Covenant through his death. When he rose again, a New Covenant was established with the nation of Israel. However, the nation of Israel rejected Christ and God extended his arms of salvation to the Gentiles.

The conclusion here is this, the Jews have a New Covenant with Christ but the Gentiles just became recipient of the promise God made to Abraham. We, Gentiles don't have a New Covenant because we never had an old one. But the Jews had an Old Covenant and therefore also a New one.

So, it will be more correct to say that we (formerly called Gentiles) are not in a Covenant relationship with God. We are born into the family of God. We are sons in the house. We are the recipient of the promise God made to Abraham.

The Jews who have a new Covenant with God are even ignorant of it. They are in partial blindness because of the Law of Moses they still embrace till date. However, they also will be delivered from this blindness in the near future and enjoy the liberty of sons. Then, they also will become recipient of the promise God made to Abraham.

"For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in. And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob. For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins ". Romans 11:25-27

I enjoyed reading this post so much so that I gave it a LIKE.

However, reading the scriptures, we can identify 3 groups of people:
1. The Jews, referring to the nation of Isreal
2. The Gentiles, referring to other nations and
3. The church of Jesus Christ.

The purpose of the gospel is to make both Jews and Gentiles One New Creation in Christ Jesus.

Galatians 3:28-29
There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is neither male nor female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus.
And if you are Christ's, then you are Abraham's offspring, heirs according to promise.

Galatians 6:15 For neither circumcision counts for anything, nor uncircumcision, but a new creation.

This is the challenge Paul faced when he addressed the Jewish nation in Romans chapter 10.

So as long as it has to do with a relationship with God through Jesus Christ, what matters is A NEW CREATION.
This new creation is born without a past. Even if there was a new contract for the Jew, as a new creation, he/she must consider that the one for whom the new testament was ratified has died. Now we have a New Creation, without a past; therefore his relationship with God is not based on covenant; Its a father- son relationship.

Galatians 4:6 And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father. 4:7 Wherefore thou art no more a servant, but a son; and if a son, then an heir of God through Christ.

Muafrika2:
This is so much better.

In total agreement concerning the allegory and prophetic nature of that scripture. That there are in fact two people, two different relationships born/beneficiaries of the same covenant, Is what I get from this.


I see what you are saying here. He's referring to children of the promise/covenant. Who will be "called" at a future time. How did this calling happen? With Christ of Course. The phrase, "from Egypt I called my son" is also used in reference to Christ too. Because His was a very purposeful calling. He came with a mission and a methodology of accomplishing it.This is what I was explaining in the posts you expressly don't care to read. As much as we like to think of God as an easygoing buddy, the end justifies the means kind of person, nothing can be further from the truth.


You will also agree, I hope that Isaac had two sons. One of them, Jacob, had 12, out of which Tribes, only one, Judah gave us the Messiah. I belive that is the offering your next scripture here refers to... as the one offspring. What happened to Esau/Edom? What happened to the other 11 tribes? They are clearly not part of this future calling. But they were blessed. Did you know that Israel did not touch the descendants of Esau when they came to inherit canaan? So the promise cut through the physical too. Unless you contest that Abraham's children were blessed through that covenant.

So explain how it went from inheriting the land of the Amorites, making Edom and Ishmael a great nation to this as you wrote above.










Am at a loss here. I thought you guys are saying there is no new covenant So is there a covenant or not

But anyway. I submit to you, that the laws of Moses came with another covenant. New conditions, new sacrifices, new people, new promises. This is why I took the liberty to try and define the meaning of the word covenant before...


Do you agree with that definition of "covenant"? If not, what do you believe a covenant is?





We were doing so well. That's what scholars do. You differentiate your interpretation from that which you think is wrongly perceived.

The last question, which you have avoided, concerns the transition beyeeen the old and new testaments. This is one of the posts in which I answered that question ... which got your friends here wild;





5. You have to understand what abrahamic covenant is and christ's role towards salvation.
5 A. [color=#000099] God had a covenant with abraham, and not Jesus. As Jesus is the incarnate son of God.
But, bro you are really messing things up, and that atheist is here making fun of you.
Bro, wake up and start reading your bible!(Ignore)
promise10 :
...
6. God made a covenant with abraham, of which his ETERNAL descendants were part of.

7. Now, God NEVER ABOLISHED the abrahamic covenants. If you have to prove otherwise, you can go ahead.(you first need to establish the scriptural basis of this allegation)

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I think the difference here is that of interpretation. This sound clearly as a reference to another covenant that God was going to establish with the seed of Abraham. Which he did later. That's why the terms of that new covenant which you have admitted are different, were revealed much later.




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Galatians 3:6-9 Even as Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.
Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham.
And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed.
So then they which be of faith are blessed with faithful Abraham. For the sake of agreeing to disagree, I'll give you this one. But remember the circumcision? It was the sign of Abraham's covenant. Remember the tithes and interactions with melchizedech? The sacrifices, including his son? The spiritual atmosphere even at his time was different from time after Christ.

Galatians 3:11 But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith.

Galatians 3:13 Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:

Galatians 3:14 That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.Of course,


9. And this happen BEFORE the law.

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Yes the Abrahamic covenant was BEFORE the law. You didn't know that?


Galatians 3:17 This is what I mean: The laws given to Moses 430 years after God had already put his promise to Abraham into effect didn't cancel the promise to Abraham.

Galatians 3:18 If we have to gain the inheritance by following those laws, then it no longer comes to us because of the promise. However, God freely gave the inheritance to Abraham through a promise.



10. The law was asked by the Israelites then, ( they asked? Show me where)



11. When the law came, the dividends of the covenant became CONDITIONAL.
(Hold on. Are you saying the laws of Moses converted the Abrahamic covenant from one form to another? I hope you can show this in scripture, )
The law in my understanding is not limited to the time and days of Israel. But I'll let this go.
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They asked the same question in the bible. The Abrahamic covenant cannot be converted, it is everlasting but the law made access to its blessings conditional upon obedience to the law.
Galatians 3:17 And this I say, that the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect.

12. ... Now, God in his mercy and love created an incarnate son of himself ... And through this faith, we have an UNCONDITIONAL FREE ACCESS to the beneficiary of the abrahamic covenant.
My response to this is my first quote of my previous post.

let's discuss the unconditional free access to abrahamic covenant. I believe that is the destination that this thread was created to go to. Remember Christ's word to Israelites, about that access...

Not even belief?


John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

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You will understand this if you have followed me without pride in your heart.


Romans 4:2 If Abraham had God's approval because of something he did, he would have had a reason to brag. But he could not brag to God about it.

Abraham did do something, he believed.. and it was counted to him for righteousness

Romans 4:3 For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.


Romans 4:4 Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.

Romans 4:5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

Romans 4:13 For the promise, that he should be the heir of the world, was not to Abraham, or to his seed, through the law, but through the righteousness of faith.

Romans 4:16 Therefore, the promise is based on faith so that it can be a gift. Consequently, the promise is guaranteed for every descendant, not only for those who are descendants by obeying Moses' Teachings but also for those who are descendants by believing as Abraham did. He is the father of all of us,

Galatians 3:13 Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:

Galatians 3:14 That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.

Galatians 3:29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.



That we enjoy the blessings of Abraham is not a contention for me, never has been. The brazen assertion that Christ or we are not in covenant with God is. This is how you identify a covenant:

~ a sacrifice/living sacrifice
~ Binding conditions/belief
~ consequences of performance and non performance

Is Christianity based on such? If so its a covenant.

What is all this? It appears you are more interested in engaging someone in an argument than you are to discover truth. Why struggle to make the scriptures say what that are not. Why try to make the scriptures look difficult or contradictory. They are not at all.

I managed to respond to your queries, not minding how many or how scattered you presented them, not because I was prepared for long endless argument a but just to let you know that promise10 was arguing based on scripture.
And now you continue, quoting me, yourself, back and forth and trying to reason out divine revelation.

If you want a response from me, take it one at a time. And please be clear about whether you want to learn or you are simply putting forth yet another argument. I do not want to go on an endless fruitless journey especially when someone is requesting for knowledge in the guise of argument.

To begin to interpret scripture, you must first have the basic foundational knowledge of the gospel of Jesus Christ.

Abraham had seed according to the flesh - his natural descendants and Seed according to the promise- Christ, the seed of Abraham.

Romans 9:7 Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called.

Hebrews 11:18 Of whom it was said, That in Isaac shall thy seed be called:


Notice the above scriptures do not say "Isaac" shall thy seed be called but "in Isaac" shall thy seed be called.

Meaning that even though the natural descendants of Abraham were and are still blessed above all nations of the earth, there is the promised seed -Christ and all who are His to whom the promises were actually made.

No wonder the scriptures refer to the Old testament as a shadow of the new.


Colossians 2:16-17
Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:
Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.

Hebrews 10:1 For the law having a shadow of the coming good things--not the very image of the matters, every year, by the same sacrifices that they offer continually, is never able to make perfect those coming near,



So there was 1) Abraham, then 2) the law and the old testament, then 3) Christ and the New testament.

So God cut a covenant with Abraham. The law of Moses with the old testament is based on the Abrahamic covenant and so is the new Testament based on the same covenant.

The New testament was necessitated by the inability of the Old to make one righteousness and perfect (even though the law in itself was holy).

Moses was the mediator of the Old testament based on the law. Attaining Righteousness and enjoying the blessings of Abraham was by works.

Jesus was the mediator of the New testament based on grace. Attaining righteousness and enjoying the blessings of Abraham is by faith.

This is the summary of all the scriptures I quoted. No need to quote more. This is the message of the entire bible. This is the picture you must have to understand and interpret the scriptures properly.

"No assumptions! No half measures!" - Rev Tom