₦airaland Forum

AnonyNymous:
I honestly believe that we can't be alone, the universe is just too large, besides, there are other earth-like planets in the universe that can support human life and all other forms of life that we KNOW of, not to talk of the kind of strange creatures that we dont know of, lol . . . What if there's a species somewhere that breathes in Nitrogen and breathes out Helium, and their bodies are designed to support that

The versatility of carbon in chemical reaction is the reason that all known life forms is carbon based. So, unless the laws of chemistry is not the same through out the universe having an organism that breathes in nitrogen and exhales helium will be impossible.

foolinlove:
Think as you please. We cover our butts when it comes to terrorist acts :-)

What a lame response to a well reasoned argument by Owliver.

The man is an absolute scumbag. He ought to have married the little girl first, then waited until she turned nine (the age of Aisha when Prophet Mohammed had sex with her) before it can be halal to sleep with the little girl.

johnydon22:
Yet still you are still invoking God as the placeholder for ignorance, that same thing you are accusing others of.

We may propose a "intelligent being (God) hypothesis" but it must remain within the confines of a hypothesis and also we cannot employ special pleading like exempting this 'God' also from causality and need for design cus that outrightly means we can then not consider pulling of such a hypothesis in the first place.

You say you only invoke 'God' at the place for the 'birth of the universe' this is still the same act of 'God of the gap' argument.

You or i or anyone else do not know what or how the universe was birthed and so now that we have reached a climaxing point of our knowledge when our mind is being disturbed by this humongous uncomfortable ignorance.

You choose to invoke 'God' to fill the answer instead of simply just saying I do not know.

I think that is intellectual dishonesty my brother and such invocation of an uncertain assumption to fill a gap of knowledge is consonant with science.

In science you must be comfortable with admitting ignorance, you must be humble enough to agree i don't know rather than trail that same line of intellectual laziness i'd also say intellectual egoism like you rightly pointed out at the start of your post.

Paul Heinrich Dietrich, Baron von Holbach [1770] once remarked:

" If a faithful account was rendered of Man’s ideas upon Divinity, he would be
obliged to acknowledge, that for the most part the word ‘gods’ has been used
to express the concealed, remote, unknown causes of the effects he witnessed;
that he applies this term when the spring of the natural, the source of known
causes, ceases to be visible: as soon as he loses the thread of these causes, or
as soon as his mind can no longer follow the chain, he solves the difficulty,
terminates his research, by ascribing it to his gods . . . When, therefore, he
ascribes to his gods the production of some phenomenon . . . does he, in fact,
do any thing more than substitute for the darkness of his own mind, a sound to
which he has been accustomed to listen with reverential awe? "

This is exactly what you are doing here bro

Let me clarify what I meant to say in my previous post. Every theist including myself believe that everything was created by God. Where some of us differ from other theist is our belief that God did not accomplish his creative work through magic but by logically expressing his power. So when someone says God did it, to me it is as useless as saying an engineer made the Airbus A380, I would like to know how it works, the principles behind its enormous jet engines, the materials used to construct its extra-long pair of gigantic wings that does not buckle under its weight, etc.
I believe that God did everything and that with the passage of time we will continue to unravel more of the mysteries of the universe. And it is also my belief that the mystery of the very birth of the universe will forever remain unknown to us due to the fact that we are a product of the universe.
For the most part our difference is of a philosophical nature rather than scientific I think.

johnydon22:
Yet still we are still faced with a problem of something and nothing, God is something and so it yet leans back down to how there is something and not nothing.

You see i first left the inability of Energy to be an uncreated value in order to allow total annihilation of the subject, now God a fully functional personal and consciousness entity is being used to fill a gap of nothingness/something problem not only is that irrational in my opinion but a very severe leap of many wholes.



Transcendant and personhood are paradoxical attributes that can only annihilate the subject.

-If a God (personal God) is and is transcendent

-If something is transcendent it cannot perform actions within time or exist within time

-But a person or personal being must exist and perform actions within time

-therefore something transcendent cannot be a person

so if there is such a thing as a transcendent personal entity, it is paradoxical and cannot be.

I am as adversed to invoking God as a place holder for knowledge gaps as anyone else, I think it is borne out of intellectual laziness. So while it is true that our capacity to learn and to discover new things is as limitless as the universe is limitless both in size and the mysteries it contains, I also think that because we are a product of the universe our understanding of it will never exceed it as long as we are confined to it. That is the reason why I think the laws of physics breaks down the closer we get to the moment of the big bang. So the only time I invoke God is when the discussion is on or just before the birth of the universe.

johnydon22:
Too tired to draft a reply that would be as long as i would have loved but yet still.

God is something therefore if there was God before the universe still there wasn't nothing.. (depends on what you call God though)

And yet still since the problem is between nothing and something and God still within the confines of something, it is still how is there something (of which God is still part of ) and not nothing..

So you see God (the conventional view) does not answer that question......

Let's broaden this a bit, when referring to God here are you referring to a Personal conscious entity?

We are really trying to split hairs here but I understand that this is a subject where a slight shift in perspective can make a whole lot of difference of opinion.
I did say without God the universe is nothing, which implies that the nothing I was referring to is restricted to the universe.
To your other question about God, yes I am reffering to a concious and intelligent being, and not some nebulous impersonal force.

Teempakguy:
. . . And since there was nothing, there wouldn't be the natural laws. one of which is the laws of conservation of energy, and the passage of time. ergo, instantaneously, energy would have been created, since all possible things would have occurred simultaneously, since time doesn't exist. and only the laws that prevented any other outcome would have been able to survive. hence, the universe would have created itself from nothing.


Note that the laws that guide our universe are simultaneously preventing it into regressing into nothing. the universe is expanding, entropy is irreversibly increasing, Time travel is strictly prohibited, there is a limit to the updating of the universe. it seems to me that if nothing existed at first, all possible kinds of universes would have immediately appeared since nothing itself cannot stop them from existing. nothing means no laws, and where there are no laws, there are no prohibitions.

two things may have happened from there, either these universe continued to coexist as a multiverse, or they were annihilated by a super-universe that evolved all the laws that would prevent it from destruction -- ours.

All of these explanations do not require a divine intervention, i.e, there is no need for God.

The problems you presented above can be resolved if you allow for an entity that is external to the universe to be its creator, then the energy and laws of interaction of energy would have to come from this entity.
To your second point, you are half right. Nothing means no laws as you said, but it also means no energy so the talk of all kinds of universe popping up would not be possible.
Your last point is as much a claim as me saying God did it, only less believable in my opinion.

johnydon22:

And so it remains that even an absolute 0 of a kelvin is still equivalent to −273.15 °C or −459.67 °F..

so was it really a state of absolute nothingness or just a state of extremely inactive thermodynamics.

And again to further stretch the mischievous idea i was trying to portray {V,T,E,M} = are existential values. with {} ---> being the limitless nothingness on which they exist upon.

if V T E M ceases to exist we are still left with {} even though the values of VTEM are at a zero...




It is not an over complication, it only shows that 'nothing' in essence is still 'something' regardless of us calling it 'nothing'. As a virtue of it's existentiality it nullifies it's own self.

Nothingness (inexistence) but then exists this contradicts it's own self.



we might also get to hear that

Sorry for taking so long to reply, I have been busy with work and exam.
It appears to me that you argument in a nut shell is that if anything including an idea is something, then nothing must be something since it is alo an idea.
This view of nothing that is something does not contradict my view of nothing as an empty set. The empty set becomes a container of a sort devoid of any property that can be used to describe the universe i.e energy, space, time and quantum flictuations whatever that is.
Going by the way you defined 0 kelvin, nothing becomes -ve everything which gives you an empty set.
The idea that energy which we know cannot be created being zero in that empty set makes sense if you view God as external to the universe and the source of the energy contained in it. Which would mean that without God the universe would be nothing.

eplanning:
And did u watch it too? ...I'd like to know

No I didn't, it would have been a total waste of my time.

ganisucks:
shameless pastor. After eating the chicken, you now want to clean your mouth. Yoruba pastors have no dignity or self control. Just 10k can make them turn to pasuma

This young lady has more sense than all you chicken idiots combined that are too afraid and too stupìd to see that they are being exploited by these so called men of god

bbjummy:
Does it really bother the church what your opinions are? Nosy people everywhere.

Do you see how foolish you are? Even your church is now denying doing what you are busy defending.

bbjummy:
Excuse me, I don't recall mentioning you. Or are you now the OP? B*sy body

Eradicating stupìdity is a communal effort, it is not busy body.

What does Daddy G.O Adeboye sarcrifice in return? Nothing, while some idìots happily sarcrife their all to him hoping that by doing so God will reward their stupìdity with success.

nenergy:
Someone who is owing you 20k for over 6 months boasts to someone that he pays tithe and even pays more than 10% sometimes.

Question; should a debtor pay tithe?

Yes, they must continue to pay until the become totally broke, even then they can still sell their kidneys and a few body parts before they can truly say that they are unable to pay.

eplanning:
You can only know for sure that it was false after the service this Sunday right?

There are some things that you don't have to see to know that it is false, the queen attending a christ embassy program is a good example.

muhamadnur:
yes even me i will, not önly behead, but skin her alive, ignorant coward illiterates you dnt mess with our messenger.

Do you realise that one man's blasphemy is another man's truth? How would you feel if a catholic should skin you alive for saying that Jesus is not God but just a mere prophet? Is your God and his prophet so powerless that they need your help to carry out their dirty work?
If islam teaches you to skin those who blaspheme your prophet, then I would not fault those who say that the ideas of the religion is more disgusting than a dog's vomit.

eplanning:
The bible tells about the many kings and nobles who came from around the world to listen to the wisdom of Solomon. Well, as it was in bible days, so is it today as it is common to see heads of state and dignitaries in meetings with the formost apostle and prophet to the nations in these last days, Rev Dr. Chris Oyakhilome.

Her Majesty, The Queen of England, has indicated interest to attend the Global Worship and Communion service with the Man of God, Rev. Dr. Chris Oyakhilome, with her full Royal entourage, this Sunday 5th June 2016 @ The O2 Arena in London.

Service will be beamed live via satellite, the internet, and terrestial TV stations to a global audience in all continents of the world.

What can I say...

Isa 60:3
3 And the Gentiles shall come to thy light,
and kings to the brightness of thy rising.
(KJV)

The queen could not make it there in person but she watched every moment of the action packed holy ghost program via the live stream.

This is how the NEW WORLD TRANSLATION OF THE HOLY SCRIPTURES rendered that verse, which to me makes more sense.

From the days of John the Baptist until now, the Kingdom of the heavens is the goal toward which men press, and those pressing forward are seizing it.

You should start by first mourning the senseless killing of a woman in Kano for the sake of Mohammed.

johnydon22:
You see here is where the problem is, is the (0) really nothing? (Though is this case i am forgoing the ability of energy to be an uncreated value)

If V,T,E,M= 0 in this mathematical calories 0 is still greater than -1 -2 ...... till -infiniti therefore 0 remains something.

The empty set {} I talked about is the absolute zero which is very different from the relative zero you gave in your example that can be thought of as an arbitrary center chosen to represent lower or more negative value to the left of it and higher or more positive value to the right of it. One good example of the contrast between a relative zero (0) and an absolute zero is the Celsius and the Kelvin which are units for measuring temperature. 0°C which is a measure of the energy state of atoms at the freezing point of water does not imply that a lower energy state cannot be reached, so it makes sense to have -ve°C whenever the energy state falls below the freezing point of water.But for 0 kelvin which is the absute zero state of a body with no energy there is no sense in talking about -ve kelvin.

The matter remains that on the virtue of it's existentiality it becomes a 'something'... so for 'nothing' to exist then 'nothing' must become something ... the sheer presumption for the existence of 'nothing' nullifies nothing in itself.

This I think is just an unnecessary over complication of the fact that when something has absolutely nothing, we call it nothing.

In that case i was painting a broader picture and even more larger boundless containment for not just "a universe" but rather "universes"..... A multiverse.

Space/time for our universe began at a given point and even there was no time before then for one to ask for a time before our universe would be like asking for the edge of the earth which is improbable since the earth is spherical therefore cannot have an edge.

So if time began at a certain point of instance in our universe then there cannot be such a thing as "time before the universe" since there was no time at all.

To reconcile this i'd then have to assume as a universal dimension becomes subjective to distinct universes limited within their containment with yet then a timeless inter-universal infinite void between them

Some interesting stuff here that I'm in broad agreement with though from a religious point of view.
Nice thread by the way, I have always been fascinated by science.

johnydon22:
I also hold this position that there cannot or was there ever absolute nothingness.

But if space began at a point then musn't there also be a platform unlimited and boundless too but distinct in characteristic necessary for space to expand?


This leans towards bubble universe with inter-universal space in between them.

My view is that if any points in the universe can be described by the set of coordinates {V,T,E,M} where V, T, E and M represents space, time, energy and mass, then one could say that just before the big bang happened the set U = {} which is a null or empty set describes the nothingness of the universe since V, T, E, and M are zero. This is what I think nothing is, and why I also think that you cannot achieve the state of nothingness in a universe that is already something. Doing so would mean finding a location that has all four elements of the set as zero. Such a set, if it exist would be a disjoint set, which means it can only exist outside the boundary of the universe.

As to the bold, do you mean at a point in time or a point in space? The former presumes that the notion of time before the birth of the universe has any meaning and the later fails to understand that space is meaningless outside the universe.

But members of The Lord's Chosen do die from these same afflictions, don't they?

SidL:
Build one

What are you asking me to build?

SidL:
Of course, you are right. And yet my friend, you get the general idea
Did you see the second video in that post?

What's your take on all the Mo Gen videos, if you viewed them?

The second video also proves nothing since there is no independent third party to verify that the components on the circuit board are actually what they are supposed to be. My guess is that the transformer is actually a battery in disguise.

You should never be too quick to believe every claim you see online, they can easily be faked. Look at the pakistan video again, can you see that when he switched on the boiler-ring and the iron the light bulbs did not dim as one would expect if the setup is being powered by the alternator.

Zero - point energy, free energy and above unity energy are just somee of the many names given to the concept of a perpetual motion machine. Having such a machine is not possible since it contradicts the very foundation the law of thermodynamics is based upon such as the conservation of energy and entropy.
Every now and then you see someone with little or no formal science qualification claiming to have made a prototype zero - point energy device but are in need of partners/investor to help raise funds needed for them to develop the prototype to a comercial product. It is a big lie, a hoax designed to defraud any who is gullible enough to fall for their tricks.

Oluwaseytiano:
Just wondering, if Adam and Eve had not eaten the forbidden fruit as God warn and they lived on, reproducing immortal descendants, the world would have become overpopulated. What would God have done? Relocate some people to mars?

God told them to multiply and fill the earth, so I guess procreation would have to stop once the earth became full or man under God's guidance would have had to journey into space to find a new home for the expanding human family.

"We should remember that whatever happens he remains God's anointed and not forget that it is not for us to judge."
The quote above is the defence normally given to pastors whenever they are caught with their pants down. So can someone please explain to me why this pastor is not accorded with the same above the law "touch not my anointed."

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Utter trash. It is your miserable life that needs a breakthrough.

SirWere:
Err the article I read said Dark Matter makes up this "voids" and Dark matter bends light so........

Dark matter from what I have read is concetrated in areas that have normal matter such as galaxies. But even if this is not the case, dark matter does not seem to have any interaction with photons, hence the name dark matter.

SirWere:
How does light get through then

It is technically a vacuum, which means that photons can travel through unhindered.

SirWere:
Twinkle Twinkle little star

How I wonder what you are

Up above the sky so high


Like a Dia- oh sh!t it's a galaxy






One question though; what do you call the space between galaxies

Inter galactic space I guess.