Dorox's Posts
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Scholar8200:I understand what you are saying, but you still have not addressed the point raised in the op which is to give a reasonable justification for why it does not make God evil and wicked to have people burn in hellfire for eternity. If God did not create hell for man, it still does not change the fact that billions of humans will find themselves there if we go by the "broad is the road leading to destruction" rule of Jesus. |
KingEbukasBlog:I am really trying to understand if people truly believe that the concept of hellfire can be justified on moral ground or it is just something that one think of as totally evil but accept the fact that since it is from God then it must be right. I would really welcome your contribution. |
Scholar8200:No one is disputing the fact that a teacher has the right to set an exam and to pass or fail his students according to their performance, what is in contention is the penalty for failure. Imagine being asked to write an exam where a failed result means that your eyes will be plucked out of their sockets and your four limbs will be chopped off. Would you say that is a fair exam? Hellfire is much worse than that. |
Scholar8200:So are you saying that the opportunity of having eternal bliss in heaving justifies eternal torture? |
lekkie073:The op is about whether hell assuming it exist is morally right or wrong. So if you believe sinners are going to hell explain why it doesn't make God a wicked monster. And if you don't belive hellfire exist make a case of why it's existence will mean that God is evil. |
The belief that God will punish unrepentant sinners in hellfire for eternity is a doctrine that is held among people of diverse religions and across various sects of the same religion. I would like for us to discuss the morality of this belief and see if we can come to any moral justification of eternal torture. Inorder words can a suitable contextual framework be found that justifies the evil of hell? For example killing another human being is evil but if the killing is framed in the context of defending one' s family from marauding bandits, then a case can be made that the love for family and the duty to protect that love justifies the use of evil in that particular situation. Since the reason for opening this thread is to discuss the morality of hell and to see if it is compatible with the notion of God, any scriptures can be quoted from whichever religion one subsribes to including viewpoints from oral African religions are welcomed. It is assumed for the purpose of this discussion that hell is real, so it will be pointless and a waste of space to quote scriptures in support of the proposition that hell is real. What our argument and scriptures (for those who chose to quote one) should attempt to do is make a case that justifies hellfire as morally right and compatible with the attributes of God, or morally wrong and incompatible with the attributes of God. |
donnelly:A truck carrying a fish tank had an accident that spilled it's cargo of thousands of kilograms of fish and water on the road. |
kevoh:The internet is a powerful resource for seeking knowledge, it took me less than three minutes from reading the op to finding out what actually happened. Not too happy with you for posting it first. ![]() |
Medicis:Last I checked atheist are not in the habit of using scriptures to argue their point and muslims also believe in the immortality of the soul, so it will safe to conclude that he is neither of those. |
Medicis:In explaining death to Adam God said to him from dust you are and to dust you shall return. In orderwords you are made out of dust and at death you shall return to your initial state which is lifeless dust. That is why Solomon says in Ecclesiastes 3:19,20 For the fate of the sons of men and the fate of beasts is the same. As one dies so dies the other; indeed, they all have the same breath and there is no advantage for man over beast, for all is vanity. 20All go to the same place. All came from the dust and all return to the dust.…Nothing was said about us having an immortal soul, it says that at death we are no different from animals. It is this death that Jesus came to deliver us from by presenting his perfect life as a ransome for our salvation as stated in John 17:3 which I won't quote because it is all too familiar. |
Josh from the illustration given by the op is a bad man whose relationship with Mary is abusive, and his love for her is like a prison of nightmares that anyone would be happy to be freed from. It would be disingenuous for us to say that there is no truth to what the op is saying and to dismiss it as unworthy of deliberation. However we slice and dice it, the concept of everlasting torture in fire can never be reconciled with a loving God. Continuing with the analogy of the op, let us assume that Mary owes her existence to Joseph her creator who made her out of clay and gave her the ability to think and feel. Most religions believes that if Mary does not please her master/ creator he has the right to keep her in a furnace that is so hot and painful but incapable of killing her as an everlasting punishment for her disobedience of a few years. How sick is that? To me this is the height of wickedness, bringing someone into existence of your free will and not giving the person a choice to stop existing should the person choose to do so. |
CoolUsername:Faith doesn't stop lightning common sense does. |
vchykp:If the building had proper protection against lightningy strike I am sure this unfortunate incident could have been avoided, so blame the deaths on the building contractor for failing to adhere to proper building codes. It is unfortunate that there are millions of Nigerians like you still holding on to superstitious beliefs like the quote in bold that has no place in the 21st century. You should know that with access to the internet ignorance is now seen as a choice. |
Annunaki:Thank you. That is why I only argue tithing with a tithe payer, doing so with a tithe collector is just an exercise in futility. |
goodnews201668:They do pay tithe to the church, it just so happens that they are the church. |
vchykp:Two people just died and a third was injured yet you are here pontificating on how those women must have deserved it instead of being sad for the loss of lives. Accidents like this though uncommon does happen at random every once in awhile, it has nothing to do with God or Devil, adhering to the correct building code can help to eliminate such risk almost completely. If such ill fortune only befalls people engaging in abominable acts, then TB Joshua is a blood sucking demon since his building came crashing down like the walls of Jericho killing over a hundred people. |
patrickbon:Why do you think the church is fake? If it is because of the tragic incident that happened there, then by that measure one could say that TB Joshua has been proven to be even more of a fake pastor when his building came crashing down like the walls of Jericho crushing to death more than a hundred worshipers. |
I won't be surprised if the church building does not have a lightning conductor. |
jayriginal:This is what happens when you ask a man to understand the same thing that his livelihood depends on him not understanding. It is a difficult thing to ask of any man. |
My friend, things are still ok for you, by the time it becomes really difficult, when you are not sure if come next month there will still be a roof over your head, when your children wake up with a cry of hunger and go to bed with very little food in their bellies, when all your credit lines have been over extended you will not need someone to tell you that paying tithe is not essential to your survival. I guess you don't have much savings if any, living from hand to mouth. The ten percent you have been paying to your pastor is what should have been going into your savings account to act as abuffer for such times when a rough patch is hit. |
Geofavor:I heard you the first time, my question was how are they linked? While on the subject I will like to know which theory about the birth of the universe and the creation of life appeals to you the most. |
Don't believe muslims when they tell you that the introduction of sharia law over society will not affect non-muslims, it is a big lie. A 60-year-old Christian woman was caned yesterday (April 12) in Indonesia’s Banda Aceh province—for breaking rules aimed at Muslims. It was the first time somebody from outside the Islamic faith was caned under the province’s harsh sharia regulations.http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/christian-woman-caned-in-indonesia_us_570ea448e4b0ffa5937e0482 |
Geofavor:Can you tell me the link please? |
Geofavor:Hello my friend, there is no need for the attitude. We are all here to discuss our individual understanding of science and in the process learn from each other. It is expected of a forum like this to generate lots of disagreement, but to go about calling someone you disagree with names is uncalled for and does not help our discussion but derails it. Your analogy about cooked food and fire does not apply because they are two separate things related by fire cooking food, one does not constitute the other. A better analogy will be the relationship between the earth and man. Every elements present in our body is from the earth, so one can theorise that a human can be made from the earth if a process can be found that will combine materials from the earth in exactly the same shape and form of a human atom by atom. Now evolution is just one process, maybe it is wrong, but there are others and one of them has to be right because man exist. Which brings me to the point I made earlier that the theory of how the eatrth came to be is a different subject matter to how the elements of the earth combined to form the first man in the same way that the theory of how the universe came to be is a different subject from the theory of how life came about. |
dancuz:I know of quite a few Nigerian university graduates that will say it is witchraft disguised as science. |
Geofavor:The big bang theory explains how the universe began from the expansion caused by the cataclysmic explosion of a primordial infinitely dense atom of infinitesimally small dimensions resulting in the creation of matter, space and time. It has nothing to do with life. Evolution on the other hand explains how matter given time and space with the right amount of energy can spontateously combine to form a self replicating organic entity aka living organism. |
IAN BURKHART HAS been a cyborg for two years now. In 2014, scientists at Ohio State’s Neurological Institute implanted a pea-sized microchip into the 24-year-old quadriplegic’s motor cortex. Its goal: to bypass his damaged spinal cord and, with the help of a signal decoder and electrode-packed sleeve, control his right arm with his thoughts. Cue the transhumanist cheers!http://www.wired.com/2016/04/quadriplegic-uses-brain-implant-control-muscles/ |
Blackfire:Well said. It is the only religion that claims to be a religion of peace and will kill whoever disagrees in countries where the peaceful sharia is law. |
The scary thing is that this person is not a nut-job whacky Florida pastor with a few dozen members espousing such a vile mysogenistic and regressive world view, but a respected Arab cleric with state backing. |
How does paying tithe to a pastor help develop the social infrastructure of our communities? I still can't understand how an adult can be idiotic to the extent of paying a tenth of his income to a pastor, it makes absolutely no sense to me. I am curious to hear from any tithe payer of the benefits they get from paying tithe. Personally, I think Nigeria would have been in a better state of things if people paidtheir taxes instead of tithes and held those in government accountable for how their tax naira is spent. |
Tithe is a holy scam used by men of god to enrich their pockets. It is a practice that is not supported in the bible account of the first century christians. |
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