₦airaland Forum

Candour: My dear olaa, do you actually read the articles you copy and paste? Do you realise that devotional supports my position and those of others who have been trying to make you see? The devotional talks about a tithe for the poor, and rightly says the lesson for today is charity to the needy around us. Is that not what we've been trying to show you since? Or you'll only understand it if it comes from bro Kumuyi's pen?

Do you agree with the write up or you're just trying to hold unto any straw in desperation? Is it inapplicable to you? If you say its inapplicable to you or you don't regard it, can you be gracious enough to say why? If you say God changed the format and context, is there any scriptures to confirm?

When Jesus spoke in Matthew 23:23, which context was he referring to? This your 'new improved context' or the one God gave Moses in the wilderness? And which your devotional affirms?

In fact...

I too was like "abi bros no read dis article before im paste am ni?"

Its called DOGMATISM

DOGMATISM

noun (plural dogmatisms)

The manner or character of a dogmatist; arrogance or positiveness in stating opinion.

Dogmatist

A stubborn, assertive, opinionated person.

Gombs: d bible expressly called non tither robbers,hence criminals. pls show me where d bible called tithers "gullible" or pastor who teach tithing "scammers", "thieves on the pulpit" "fraudsters" etc. or you wan deny the use of one all more of the enquoted adjectives?

ayam waitin for an answer

I think you are entitled to your opinion Gombs. We have been discussing tithes for how long? Is it what Candour tells you now that will change your mind?

I think enough has been said on tithing on this forum to make anyone decide what they want to do with their money.

Pls this thread has been derailed enough. Let's remain on topic and that is how we shall get all the folks willing to, for the convention.

Bidam: The one thing that you ANTITITHERS have constantly ignored here is that there is no basis for condemning tithes in the entire Bible. NONE. The one who wants to give through tithing should do so; and the one who feels others should not (or 'must not') tithe have absolutely no basis for SUCH an argument.

Here is a commonly held belief about tithing TODAY - 'Today, tithes (or tithing) are normally voluntary and paid in cash, cheques, or stocks, whereas historically tithes were required and paid in kind, such as agricultural products (that grown of the land, or fruit of the tree).' (source: Wikipedia).



Like i said before and i still repeat to what you still have no answer for Paul in teaching "new testament christians" took his teaching from the Law of Moses - 1 Corinthians 9:13-14. What is wrong with teaching Christians on giving by drawing from the Old Testament? Anti-tithers have often assumed that tithing means you cannot give from the heart; but the first lessons here is that ALL EXPRESSIONS OF GIVING IN BOTH THE OT and NT are based on one thing: THE HEART!!

So, if anti-tithers assume that all other forms of their so-called 'giving' are based on what one determines from the heart, does that exclude tithing? Did Abraham not give tithes to melchizedek on voluntary basis? Was Jacob's urge to tithe to God based on a 'mandatory' argument?

Image123 and Bidam

If indeed you teach that tithe giving should not be by compulsion, then you are saying basically what most anti tithers are saying on this forum.

Tithes should not be compulsory, every man should give as he purposes in his HEART.

However, if you continually resort to the OT to teach tithing, you are not being consistent bc the OT teaches compulsive tithing. I maintain that the whole history of tithing was recorded on the OT not for Christians to practice it literally (and we really don't; they gave tithes of agric) but for us to know and understand that giving is an essential part of worship of God. What percentage to be given is what the NT has left each believer to decide for himself.

Its a good place to close a discussion.

There is no way anyone will get into a discourse on tithing and still hold unto to the compulsive tithing. Its unfortunate that we cannot trace your early discussion on tithes on this forum but I suspect that both of you came here defending the compulsive tithe but with time gave into to the FREE WILL tithes.

Its good. Like I said earlier, we are making progress.

See you at the grace convention.

Bidam: I thought back then we are one, but there is a change of thinking now. You can continue with your grace convention without my input. Quite busy these days.

It is noted.

Gombs: Now, to u, every person that supports tithing is a tithe preacher and fraudster, then like alex asked, why then are fraudsters invited to teach in the 'Grace convention'? You lot are now benevolent enough to extend 'grace' to fraudsters to teach what exactly?

Would u invite a tithe teacher to ur gathering of brethren and have him tell ur flock he believes in tithing fro ur pulpit? Just like how DB was asked to teach the flock of another pastor, and he went and preached his own message against what the preacher teaches his own flock- that’s ministerial blunder.

From the above fraudsters should not be invited in a covention , cos from day one, they have questionable characters

DrummaBoy: "'We played the flute for you, and you did not dance ; we sang a dirge , and you did not mourn.' Matthew 11:17 ESV

Bidam: Quite unfortunate you left out seasoned
teachers of the word like Olaadegbu,
Joagbaje,Image123,Ihedinobi,Alwaystrue,Snowwy
etc.. Just because they don't share your views on
doctrinal tithes doesn't mean they don't have one
or two things to say on the issue of grace.
This OP is a glaring evidence that you have
divided yourselves into camps which is really
pathetic.I can see atheist and others peeping at
this thread and smiling with mock
satisfaction.What in God's name gave you the
impression that the catholic folks can't be
included as presenters too?Who are you to judge
other peoples foundational beliefs so far it is
centered on Christ?.
This thread is a big shame!!!
We are NOT one body at all....

www.nairaland.com/1407328/first-ever-e-convention-grace-2013

22 August 2013. Comment hidden but copied from a quote.

That is the reason for the invitations.

I want to thank all who have shown willingness to partake of the convention.

We await Goshen360 provide the theme for this year and then we can proceed to design the program and nominate topics as well as teachers.

Bidam: You know exactly what am talking about.

You can elucidate.

EDITED.

Gombs:
I smell another anti tither's grace convention like last year's... now, I feel folks (except anti tithers) won't accept this invitation on the grounds of insincerity on the part of the moderators ( not because they are anti tithers, candour for example has a better pedigree than they both), and since this thread would be grossly dominated by anti tithers and probably atheists, we can clearly assume insults would be an inevitable part of the thread as it is known to be difficult to have a civil discussion with anti tithers without them hauling invectives and insults.

And the idea of an ecumenical thread! I laff in swahili... maybe possible if and only if some new folks man it... but Goshen ft DB in moderation? Talk about garlic and onion...imagine the combination of both!

Imagine Kunle and shedemidemi in d mix... 2014 'grace convention' would be a defining part of NL religion section this year...thanks to the data loss.

"'We played the flute for you, and you did not dance ; we sang a dirge , and you did not mourn.' Matthew 11:17 ESV

Yooguyz: @Drummaboy, this is a good one. Thumbs up. Am in full support of the thread. I never knew you were an ecumenist like myself.

Thank you Yooguyz.

Truth is, I am not exactly an ecumenist. I have my reservation about ecumenism.

But I know enough to discern Christ body on this forum to call his people together for a united purpose. I hope we can fulfill purpose on this thread.

I hope you will come along as we proceed?

Bidam: Lol@ecumenical...some peeps just wont get it.SMH

Get what exactly?

BTW, yooguyz, I see you. You are also invited to the "party".

Boomark: ...

See the tithe tract on page 1, we incorporated this into the section "Christian Giving".

Lastly, for now, we are inviting all to the making of GRACE CONVENTION 2014!:

www.nairaland.com/1826244/inviting-ideas-towards-hosting-grace#24944989

Evening everyone. We are still requesting your input to editing the text for the tithe tract. This is how far we have gone with editing:

DrummaBoy: [size=16pt]SHOULD YOU TITHE TODAY?[/size]

The answer to the title of this tract is “No” and we shall be examining “why” in the remainder of the tract. The subject of whether Christians are to tithe or not to tithe is a deeply contentious one today, and obviously so because it involves money. This tract shall be offering biblical proofs to the thesis that “Christians are not obligated to tithe today”.

The Biblical Tithe

When we hear the word “tithe” today, our minds are drawn to the concept of 10% of a person’s income. Unfortunately, this is not the definition the bible offers for the tithe. In fact from Genesis to Revelation there is no account of anyone giving a tithe of his income to anybody; neither was the tithe money in the bible, even though there are ample evidences to show that money was being used since the days of Abraham. The word “tithe” had been mentioned in the story of Abraham and Jacob in the book of Genesis, but it was not until Leviticus 27:30-32 would we find something close to a definition for the tithe.

30 And all the tithe of the land, whether of the seed of the land, or of the fruit of the tree, is the LORD'S: it is holy unto the LORD… 32 And concerning the tithe of the herd, or of the flock, even of whatsoever passeth under the rod, the tenth shall be holy unto the LORD.

The tithe is defined here to be of the “seed of the land”, “fruit of the tree” and tenth of the herd. The biblical tithes were agricultural products or food, they were never money. This so called definition for the tithe is accepted by many because Leviticus 27 is the first time in the bible God would mention the word “tithe” and while mentioning it, he describes it as holy and he tells us what it consisted of.

Later in other books of Moses, we find passages of scriptures that help us to comprehend the biblical tithe better. Numbers 18:20-28, Deuteronomy 14:22-29 and Deuteronomy 26:12-15, showed us that the biblical tithes were a tenth of the agricultural products Israel harvested off the holy land God had given them. The tithes were to be given to the Levites. Levi was a tribe in Israel God had separated to serve him and who had no inheritance in Israel; the tithe was their inheritance. In the process, the Levitical tribe, that included the Aaronic priests, were the people involved in the administration of the civil and the religious life of the nation of Israel. The tithes became something like a system of taxation with which the Levitical tribe was provided for as they served the people. The aforementioned scriptures also showed that the tithes were given to the poor, the widows, the orphans and the stranger. Therefore this class of people was exempted from tithing. At other times, the tithe was even eaten by the tither himself. Every scripture in the bible that referred to tithes showed that the tithe was food. When God mentioned the bringing of tithes in Malachi 3:10, he also said “that there might be meat (food) in my house”. When Jesus mentioned the tithe in Matthew 23:23, he enumerated “mints, anise and cumin”. These were spices for food.

Also, the injunction to tithe under Moses was part of the Mosaic laws that were done away with through the sacrificial works our Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ, on the cross (Romans 10:4; Ephesians 2:15; Hebrew 8:13). If we must tithe today, we should also keep every other aspect of the laws of Moses (Galatians 5:3; James 2:10 ). If this is not practical, then it is simply not practical to tithe today.

Finally, it is not particularly correct to ask Christians to tithe because Abraham tithed. Abraham tithed from war spoils and not from his possessions or income. And it is clear from scriptures that we are called to imitate Abraham's faith and not every detail of his life - some of which were not exactly exemplary (Genesis 12:11-13 ; Romans 4:3; Galatians 3:7). Abraham also circumcised his sons, following a direct instruction from God in Genesis 17, but by the time of the New Testament, Jesus' apostles show us that circumcision was not a New Testament obligation (Acts 15; Galatians 5:3-4; Colossians 2:16-17; Philippians 3:3).


Tithing and the Gospel

Ideally the subject of whether Christians should tithe or not should not occupy a central space to warrant publication on a tract, if not for the fact that the practice of tithing is threatening the Christian gospel. The gospel of Jesus Christ is shown clearly in the New Testament to be a free gospel (Romans 8:32; 2Peter 1:3). The idea that salvation or any gift of God can be purchased is strongly repudiated in the bible (Acts 8:20). Unfortunately, this is the impression that modern day practice of tithing is giving the world. There are many Christian churches today that make tithing compulsory. They go to the extent of saying that people cannot be members of churches except they are “faithful” tithers. Apart from the fact that such a position is foreign to scripture, it also betrays the central truth of the bible that our salvation is no longer fully paid; rather, it gives the impression that there are things we must add to it. In the days of the bible some thought to add good works to their salvation; in our days pastors are asking us to add tithing to our salvation.

Despite the abuse the gospel of Jesus Christ has suffered in the hands of false teachers, its basic content remain unchanged. Jesus Christ died on the cross for all men so as to save men from sin. All that is required to enjoy the blessings of the cross is for the individual to understand this truth and to repent of his/her sins and believe in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ. By believing in him you will be saved. God does not require a penny from you to be saved; neither does he demand a kobo from you to keep you safe. The salvation that Jesus Christ purchased for the world has been fully paid for, we need not add a tithe, a firstfuit, pledges, a giving, or any kind of good works to make it complete. The salvation you receive by faith is a complete one (Colossians 2:10). All that God requires of you is to repent and believe. I trust that if anyone reading this tract is not saved, they would take advantage of this free offer of salvation. And for those who might need further understanding on the subject of salvation, you can refer to the contact address below this tract.

Christian Work Ethics

The leading lie that is sold to people about the need to tithe is that tithing is a means to financial prosperity. People are told to tithe to either secure their finances or to break the stranglehold of poverty. Those who teach this doctrine resort to Malachi 3:8-12 and interpret God's saying he would send a blessing, following the act of tithing, as God promising prosperity for tithing. Nothing could be further from the truth.

Malachi 3:8-12, in its literal form, is a message to Jews and not to Christians and this is the reason why despite years of tithing, many Christians are yet to see these blessings that have been promised. What secures prosperity for Christians is not tithing but plain hard work. The New Testament teaches that we should work so we may eat (2Thessalonians 3:7-10) and it encourages the strong to work and provide for the weak (Acts 20:33-35). God is not a magician and he does not do money doubling. Nations who are godless but prosperous today got to that point by adhering to basic Christian work ethics, and not by tithing. After we have done what we ought to do, the Christian might then call upon God to bless the works of his hands and God is certain to do this. Giving to get or tithing is not a Christian means to financial prosperity.

Christian Giving

The laws of Moses that enacted tithing were a shadow of things to come, which is the New Testament Christian life (Heb 8:5). Therefore Malachi 3:10, an extension of the Mosaic law, was pointing the church to a spiritual lesson.

Bring all the tithes into the storehouse so there will be enough food in my Temple. If you do," says the LORD of Heaven's Armies, "I will open the windows of heaven for you. I will pour out a blessing so great you won't have enough room to take it in! Try it! Put me to the test! (NLT)

The Christian's body is the temple of God today (I Corinthian 6:19; Ephesians 6:22). The temple which was a copy or shadow of something to come has been made perfect in our body through Christ. Therefore the storehouse is not in any church building made by hand. It is in us; in our body.

Giving help to a brother or sister who is in need means bringing food (or tithe) into the storehouse of God. That is why God is pleased with sharing among brethren (Heb 13:16) and that is why sharing was a major feature of the early church (Acts 4:32; 2Corinthians 8:1-2). This is why our Christ, the High priest who receives tithe(gifts) in his temple(our body) said, "whatsoever you do to the least of my brothers, that you do unto me." This is how to give to God through Christ.

Take your tithe or 5%, 20%, 60%, etc of your income cheerfully to the true storehouse of God (people in need) and fill it. Whosoever it is. Mandating anyone to PAY tithe in the church is refusing to understand the true spiritual lesson that Malachi 3 wishes to teach us. There is no greater commandment than these: Love the LORD your God and love your neighbour as yourself, Mark 12:30-31.

Further Study

A tract like this cannot contain everything that needs to be known about the biblical tithe. I therefore refer the readers to some readily available materials on the internet for you to study more on the biblical tithes:

1. Gary J. Arnolds works on www.tithing101.com
2. Matthew E. Nerramore’s works: www.tekoapublishing.com.
3. Dr. Russel Kelly whose PHD theological thesis was on tithing: www.tithing-russkelly.com

Contact Address:

(As shall be agreed by the publishers of the tract)

EDITED

www.nairaland.com/1810931/design-anti-tithe-tract-50/1#24704734

frosbel: Says the Man who is following another man like himself and not Christ.

In fact kumuyi is not only your idol , he is also your brain, your mind and your will, without him you can do nothing.

Maybe if you started to learn how to think independently you might be delivered from all these lies and myths you hold on to.

chai...

chai...

all this things you are sharing (saying)...

dia ris God o!!!

Cut OLAADEGBU some slack, abegi!!!

OLAADEGBU: Thanks but no thanks for the ecumenical invitation extended to me.

It's noted.

Goshen360: In addition, I suggest\add to the list, ichuka be added. You covered most people on my mind already.

added

striktlymi: The title of the thread attracted me here. Didn't see the 'mention' cause you missed d 'y' in striktlymi.

The last convention was successful in my opinion. I bet this one would be an improvement on the last.

Forgive me for the error. The correction is heeded.

Thank you.

BabaGnoni: "You can’t control everything:Turmoil, conflict, chaos, this is part of life.
Look at any playground:
The screaming, the laughter, the tears,
out of the mayhem comes out relationship and love
and the simple joy of being surprised by life."
- God, Joan of Arcadia

A very apt quote towards the convention.

Let me relay a story, I hope I get the details bc its been sometimes I read it:

On 31st October 1517 Martin Luther approached the doors of a prominent cathedral in the city of Wittenberg and nailed a 95 point theses on the errors of the RCC on its doors. By the time the dust settled, the Reformation had begun.

Three prominent figures spearhead the reform efforts of those days: Martin Luther (Germany); Huldrych Zwingli (Zurich) and John Calvin (Geneva). They agreed on three major points on Protestantism: Justification; Sola Scriptura; and Priesthood of all Saints. But they disagreed on minor issues like the Lord's Supper.

Luther would have been killed by the powers of Rome if not for the rulers of his country who, for reason God alone knows, were ready to defend him, even with military might. Zwingli did not have this advantage in Zurich. The point arrived when Zwingli and his followers had to defend their doctrine and lives against the encroachment of Catholic military. Luther looked the other way, possibly bc of differences in doctrine. Zwingli went to war and was killed.

John Calvin had suggested a middle point for Luther and Zwingli on the matter of the Lords Supper. They both refused it. Today the view of most non Catholics on the Lords Supper follow Calvin's interpretation.

Morale: The bible commands us to hold the truth in love. Not for truth sake we forsake love or for love sake we forsake truth. The worst of heretics are still mostly honest men and most of us have been in those shoes before.

I trust God to give understanding.

Tgirl4real: There are some differences that makes it clear that we serve 2 diff Jesus'.

I know you re trying to foster unity, but things will always be like this. 'Everybody' can not believe the same thing cos of 'human interpretation/personal revelation' of scriptures.

T-Mama

I no dare disagree with you o but...

Let's give it a try...OK? Pls??

So what's your suggestion for an e-convention this year?

Gombs: Why?

Because its an initiative of Goshen360 and I am just a support.

Someone has to do the job.

Never mind. We will endeavor to be fair.

Tgirl4real: Hello sir, I saw the opening post and I planned to buzz u later.

I particularly do not support (religion) ecumenism. There's no way you can have different doctrines and say the same thing. One side will have to compromise to accommodate the other.

Hey Mama

I agree.

That's why I called it a "similitude of ecumenism".

Its humbling to know that despite our differences, we will all share Gods kingdom together. We had better not think God is compromising to make such accommodation for us all.

I had even thought of organizing a meeting were we could all meet and talk face to face but maybe we can start from here.

There is one name we all profess, JESUS, I am sure we can find a common ground on Him somewhere.

Some of the discussions that I have heard with brethren here have been heated ones. I was hoping this years convention will allow for a similitude of ecumenism, where despite our differences in opinions, we can still speak as one voice concerning matters of God's kingdom.

For these reasons, I would like to see some of the following people present papers at this year's convention:

striktlymi
Bidam
Image123
Alwaystrue
Gombs
Tgirl4real
Peter007
PastorKun
trustman
BabaGnoni
Goshen360
frosbel
Candour
Boomark
truthislight
Enigma (where is he?)
Joagbaje
Ihedinobi2
OLAADEGBU
christembassey
nlmediator
MrAnony1
PastorOluT
shdemidemi
Pastor AIO
Ayoku777
nuclearboy
DrummaBoy
ichuka
Yooguyz
alexleo
MarkMiwerds
nep2ra
nora544
banom
Ajibam
ubenedictus
Inesqor
SisterMe
bookmark
UyiIredia
italo
Ishilove

I will list others as I remember them.

I hope you see this on the mention list and post your opinion here.

Image123:
This passage is a COMMAND for a WILLING offering. That is how it is possible to have a command for freewill. If you're familiar with the passage, this should suffice. Every man brought and were regarded as the wise hearted ones. Bible definition of free will.

Question:

Was the command for free will giving a command to give tithes?

Where did God COMMAND tithes to be given as FREE WILL in the old testament?

Is this passage, which you are quoting, not lending support to our position that God’s demand or even command on the Christian is to give free will and not obligatory tithing?

Can you see from this passage that God saw that Israel had gold, silver and bronze but never requested them to tithe in those? Rather he requested his tithes to be agricultural products? Why then do you call tithes money?

While your point about God commanding a free will offering is understood, you clearly are being economical with the truth if you claim modern day tithing is taught as free will giving. It certainly is not.

Image123: This thread is on the 111th page. i'll like to think that you have done a fair reading through. Most of the questions asked or to be asked have ALREADY being answered. It is why it becomes cumbersome to re-answer them again and again, especially when it is the same people or place that the question is presented by or in. Oh, forget demisquare by the way. If that fellow told me that my username is "shdemidemi123", i would not go out of my way to disagree with him. He has that 'gift' of pulling a lot of wool as it were.

The key to your query is in your words "under the old covenant". We are NOT UNDER the law, or UNDER the Old Covenant. Under the New Covenant, tithe CAN BE a freewill form of giving. i'll explain with analogy, then in my next post with scriptures.
Under the old covenant, CIRCUMCISION was "coerced"(if that is the proper word to use). However, today under grace, i can physically circumcise my child, and i can choose not to. The fact that it was obligatory under the old Covenant doesn't mean that it cannot be done freewill today.
i can choose today to observe the sabbath as best as i can, whether on Saturday or any day. Can choose not to do any work, worship God and whatever else sabbatical that can be done.

Image123

Let me tell you why this analogy is not true.

The reason anti tithers take the position they take against tithing is because of the way and manner tithes are generally taught and practiced in our churches.

Now after years of debating this topic, you have now found a safe haven in calling tithes "free will giving"; good for you. It shows we are making progress. But those pastors out there do not agree with you.

Permit me to relay my story again (though you hate to hear it).

I decided to stop tithing March last year. The church I attended will boast of some 1,500 members. I had some 300 of them on my Facebook. After a few months of silence, one day in July or so I posted something on my wall to say in effect I no longer tithe. It generated some debate bc I no be small person for church.

One day my wife returns home to inform me if I have read the conditions to be s true member of the church? I had but maybe not paid attention to details. The last item said "you MUST be a FAITHFUL tither to be a member of the church". I knew I was in trouble.

Long story short, I had to leave the church eventually.

What is free will giving in that?

My guy forget semantics. In the real world where tithing is practiced most of these churches expect you to PAY your tithe: you owe it to God and to them, that's what they teach. That's what we oppose.

Image123: It's not always about an audience, do you fear God?

After your inconsistency has been proven and you find no such in me, you proceed to use psychology on me.

Ok.

Issoray.

You too... do you fear God?

And BTW go through all my topics and posts, and you can be sure you won't find anything to nail me.

The one on Paul's letters is obviously not sufficient. Keep searching.

As for you... it is not far fetched at all; but I have better things to use my time for.

Bring them on; I am waiting.

Image123

Now that you have presented my seeming inconsistency and yours has been clearly proven, not by me but by the audience, I will leave them to judge your "evidence" and conclude whether indeed I was inconsistent as you would have everyone believe.

^^^ so what?

OBLIGATION

noun (plural obligations)

The act of binding oneself by a social, legal, or moral tie to someone.

A social, legal, or moral requirement, duty, contract, or promise that compels someone to follow or avoid a particular course of action.

A course of action imposed by society, law, or conscience by which someone is bound or restricted.

(legal) A legal agreement stipulating a specified payment or action; the document containing such agreement.

FREE WILL


noun

1. free and independent choice; voluntary
decision: You took on the responsibility of your
own free will.

2. the doctrine that the conduct of human
beings expresses personal choice and is not
simply determined by physical or divine forces.

Main Entry: free will

Part of Speech: noun

Definition: free choice

Synonyms: assent, choice, conation, consent,
desire, determination, discretion, free choice, free
decision, freedom, inclination, intention, mind,
one's discretion, one's own choice, one's own
will, option, own say so, own sweet way,
person's full intent and purpose, pleasure,
power, say so, velleity, volition, voluntary
decision, willingness, wish

Antonyms: responsibility

dictionary.reference.com/browse/free+will

shdemidemi: ^^ don't kill the man in the corner, he threw the white flag already.

God bless you bro

I don't think so o...

I think Image123 and Bidam owe us an explanation as to how tithing, which is generally considered obligatory, suddenly became a free will form of offering.

Thank you dorox for that clear explanation.

Goshen360: That will be fine bro.

please check this out

www.nairaland.com/1826244/inviting-ideas-towards-hosting-grace

On 29th August 2013, the first ever e-convention was convened on nairaland www.nairaland.com/1416947/welcome-e-grace-convention-2013. The subject of discuss was mainly the grace of God manifested to all men. We had basically nairalanders present papers and it was a real blessing.

In the build up to the grace convention of last year, Goshen360, the convener, tgirl4real and myself, organized the program privately and decided on the speakers and topics. Some people were unhappy with our choice of speakers; so we decided then that if ever there will be another, the choices will be made more openly.

Therefore this thread is created as a fore runner to the GRACE CONVENTION 2014! Here nlanders will choose who they want to hear from and you would decide what topics you want discussed. However, Goshen and I will act as moderators to ensure the thread is not too open ended. To ensure this, I will enumerate some basic rules that would guide us in the choice of teachers and topics:

1. The central theme of the convention is GRACE: the grace of God revealed to all men in Jesus. Therefore all topics and subtopics must be related to grace. It doesn't have to mean that the word grace must be in the topic, it simply means that the topic must be biblical, for which God's grace is a central theme.

2. Speakers must be professing Christians.

3. Topics can also include life issues that cannot be divorced from the Christian life.

4. Suggestions are welcome but final choice of topics and speakers shall rest with the moderators though you can count on it that we shall be as fair as humanly possible.

5. This rule section shall be updated through the discuss and so suggestions for rules are welcome but will be ratified by moderators.

6. Moderators for the thread are Goshen360 and DrummaBoy.

We encourage you to make insightful suggestions and to avoid snide remarks.

Thank you.

christemmbassey: @Dboy, tithe in christianity is not a coerced giving/collection, its more sinister than that, its daylight ARMED ROBBERY.. Its the bigest, most longest and wicked FRAUD in human history. Why must u b diplomatic in truth v falshood situation? Tithe remain d Oga @ d top of all false doctrines, some in this forum av even called Christ a pharisee and a tithe collector just to sustain/defend this their agelongest scam. Bros its either u support this fraud or not, there's no middle ground with this profanity called tithe. Stay blessed.

See now...

I dey use diplomacy dem dey call me "an hypocrite".

Oya Bidam and Image123, answer dis one o!