₦airaland Forum

dorox: A genuine and heart felt apolgy that still managed to twist the 'dagger of truth' in the fallen man's stomach, without mercy and remorse.

oh, the man is fallen?

I am not sure the man will agree he is "fallen".

If indeed he is fallen, he should be the one apologizing for teaching false doctrine and then repenting before God.

Goshen360: We know who made those statement but Image123 so respect the "anointed man of God" that he can't even tell the truth the man is wrong. Holding the word of truth in hypocrisy

Pastor E A Adeboye made a similar statement but not with the exact words as written by nora544.

Adeboye's exact words:

“We need N1 billion from ten people. If you are
one of them, please see my personal Secretary
after we finish today,” Mr. Adeboye told the
congregation.

“We also need N100 million from those who can
afford it, if you are in that category. Please see
my personal Secretary as well.

“Nonetheless, we need everyone’s involvement. If
you can afford N50 million, N20 million, N5
million, N1 million to as low as N100, kindly make
sure you participate.”

See this link www.dailypost.ng/2013/08/14/three-kilometer-auditorium-angry-nigerians-blast-adeboye-say-n1billion-per-person-donation-is-criminal/

One Frosbel is quoted there in the report. Could it be our own frosbel? Hear him:

Don’t donate, on judgment day, Adeboye will not
save you -Frosbel

Can Adeboye ensure that there is not one needy
person among his church members before he
embarks on this multi-billion naira project to
build a 3-km Long Church Auditorium.

This is madness; building more and more edifices
while our people are almost dying of hunger, a
classical case of taking money from the needy
and using it to build babels to the glory of MAN.
Reminds me of India who are investing in more
weapons of mass destruction when 60% of their
people starve, talk of misplaced priorities.

Do not give a penny to this project, pay your rent,
bills , feed your children and then give to the poor
and the needy around you. Go to the Lord in
prayer before you donate a penny. I am sure there
are worthier causes all around us.

People, it is time you follow JESUS and stop
enriching MEN and their dreams. You do not need
to go to a specific place to find Jesus, if we have
the Spirit , he is always present for he has said ”
I will never leave you or forsake you “.

Free yourselves from MEN, follow JESUS, on
judgment day Adeboye will not save you or stand
in for you, on judgment day RCCG will not save
you, now is the time to do the right thing and go
back to new testament Christianity.

BabaGnoni: "accidental" as in unintentionally publishing the post.
The unfinished post got published after a fat finger hit the submit key at the wrong time
- similar to a mopol accidentally discharging a weapon

lol.

It happens when you have children in the house, who must show that they can out do Daddy on the internet.

Goshen360: @ D'boy,

Anony1 was automatically among the speakers because of his interest. I think you're wasting vote by nominating him again. I suggest you think of someone esle.

OK. I will add one more person.

ayoku777: I agree with you on that, the Holy Spirit bears witness with our spirit, NOT our conscience.

1John 3v20 -For if our heart condemn us, God is greater than our hearts, and knoweth all things.

I think the word "heart" there could have been translated "conscience" - and some bible versions really did put it as that.

That scripture shows that our conscience can condemn us over something God is not condemning us about -if we've been made to believe the thing is wrong.

But God is greater than our conscience and knows all things, and if we seek Him, He will teach us to know right from wrong according to His word and His Spirit NOT our conscience.

Thank Ayoku

It was that 1Jn 3:20 I was trying to lay my hands on. But you helped me out.

The matter of renewing our minds is so very important bc this mind had been programmed with a lot of junk. From cultural, to religious, to superstitious and to plain stupid stuffs. I remember some of them: feeling uneasy about hitting ones left foot against a stone (sign of I'll luck ahead they say); paying monies on Monday - they claim it will bring a debt laden week; collecting something with the left hand; not going to church on Sunday; prayer will go unanswered if the sign of the cross is not made first.

This is the reason every thing must be weighed against scripture. If the bible is God's word then whatever we claim to either be good or bad should find its root there.

This is the reason why we need sound bible teachers. Who will approach the text of scripture and allow the bible speak for itself, and not men reading their prejudices, greed and errors into the text.

T-Mama

Permit me to add a twist to this discuss. Some people lay a great deal to the conscience as the seat of God's voice to man. I disagree. The conscience of men is the measure of right and wrong for that man. Thats all. Therefore a Muslim who doesn't pray 5 times a day or fast at Ramadan, an animist that eats food meant for sacrifice, a Hindu that eats cow, and a Christian taught to tithe but eats his in one month, will all find their conscience striking them. They had programmed their mindset with a standard of good and bad and will be conscience stricken if they break any of these.

This is the reason the bible calls us to renew our minds, Romans 12:2 and to shed off dead works. When we are properly taught God's word, our minds begin to learn true right and wrong, Hebrew 6. And maturity will be doing the right things all the time. When God speaks he transcends mere conscience. I am convinced that God speaks through our spirit in contact with his Spirit. The conscience is however is on the seat of the soul.

I listen to some ministers say people should heed altar calls bc they are conscience stricken. This is wrong. Its the reason such people return to sin again when the effect of conscience has worn off. If a foreigner who has never heard the gospel was to come and hear such a minister, his conscience will never move him. But if God speaks to his spirit he will be converted. Conversion is God speaking to a man spirit and that man making a decision in conjunction with his soul.

Well, that's my position. I would like to hear other people thinking on whether conscience is God speaking to men.

alexleo: Alwaystrue
PastoroluT
Ajibam

The rule is two nominees.

Do we take the first two?

Tgirl4real: Lol

God bless you sir.

Amen.

I actually learnt that quote from peter007.

Candour: Hi bro, I don't think we are limited to the list DrummaBoy drew up. I guess those were the folks he could think of at the moment he posted. Even if ubenedictus or some other christian isn't on the original list, I don't think anything stops his or her nomination by whoever

Am I right DrummaBoy?

You are correct.

I will add up ubenedictus on the list right away.

striktlymi: @drummaboy & candour,

Okay cool!


PS: I thought Anony is already a speaker? Any need to nominate him again?

Well, my thinking is that even the first three should be taken as nominations. You may go ahead and nominate him again if you wish.

Though final say is Goshen's.

MY NOMINEES:

So many great thinkers on this forum. You all are worthy of niminations but I nominate this two and permit I give reasons for (yes, you can call it campaigning for them).

MrAnony1 (Already chosen. Leaving me with two more nominees).

1. MarkMiwerds

2. PastorOluT

Why MrAnony1?

This gentleman with this monicker is a great nl thinker. I particularly I'm blown away by his sustained debates with atheists in this forum. I am convinced that he has presented enough evidence to them about God to continue to convict them on the issue until they meet Jesus.

Anony is patient in his presentations and thorough. I have not read him loose his cool before nor craft abusive languages with scripture. His debate with Deep Sight on the trinity is for me the best thread on nairaland (though he credits DS for that thread and I do too). Recently he came to support us in the deeply controversial thread on WOF (www.nairaland.com/1790500/word-faith-movements-doctrine-proponents). He lent his support to the thread when others chose to be silent. I appreciate that: it shows to me he is a man unafraid of bearing responsibilities.

I recommend him as a speaker for this convention and I encourage others to do so also. I trust that he can make out time from his busy schedule for it.

Why MarkMiwerds?

MarkMiwerds is an American and Mark is blind. Despite this he presents issues that even those who sees physically cannot refute. Mark is an expert on tithing. He believes he has a calling to deliver folks from the false teaching on tithing. So far he carries out his ministry with focus and precision. His 58 day discussion on tithing which he refuted, along with his ally Candour, is a masterpiece on the subject of tithing: www.nairaland.com/1548047/theological-discuss-tithing-rhymeyjohn-image123

What many do not realize is that Miwerds has profound insights into a lot more things than just tithing. His posts on Facebook reveals this. A man in his mid fifties and who has been a Christian for more than 30 years, I believe he has something we all can learn from.

I recommend him heartily for this convention and I urge others to do the same.

Why PastorOluT

Great man of God with a commitment to evangelism.

I recommend heartily for this convention and I urge to do the same also.

striktlymi: If wishes were horses still, I would have loved a situation where one or more of the topics would talk about those practical challenges facing the every day Christian e.g Euthanasia, Abortion, IVF etc their morality in the light of God's grace.

People here can still suggest topics. We have not concluded in how topics will be nominated.

Pls craft out topics that will encompass the social issues you enumerated above and we find a way of adapting them to the theme.

thanks.

T-Mama, pls forgive my pasting this without much scriptural quotes. My bible softwares packed up and I am yet to download a new one.

When I became a Christian, I was continually intrigued by the "God told me" talk all around me. I begged God to speak to me too but... no show. One day I read a book by one practically unknown Anglican priest and after he explained how God speaks, I realized I had been hearing him all along and I didn't know it!

Hebrew1:1-2 - God had spoken to us through the prophets but today he speaks through his Son (paraphrase).

God speaks primarily through the bible. Christians are encouraged to read the bible and read it voraciously, as you do the capacity to hear God increases. Example: I marvel at how my baby can tell my voice or his mother's in a crowded room even after being away from him all day. He had spent time with us and could discern our voice.

Now practically. When the Christian knows the bible and has learnt to commit his ways to God, he begins to learn to make decision from a sanctified mind set, that is God leading him. Example: there is the option to begin an office romance or to work on an ailing marriage. Of course God is speaking to him to work on his marriage. Then comes the very rare one: the believer in prayer, in meditation, in reading the Word or by observing life events, a thought drops in his heart and he is certain it was not from his mind. He ruminates on the thought. He finds it deeply scriptural. He takes steps in that direction, it yields divine results: he realizes God had spoken to him. Example: God told Jeremiah to buy land in Israel that had gone to captivity, saying his nephew will come to offer it to him. When it happened, Jeremiah said now he knew God has spoken to him (Jeremiah 32:8b).

Hearing God is mostly By faith. The Christian will just believe that this is God speaking. Unfortunately, sometimes we make mistakes and that is why we should never say "God told me" it rather safe to say "I felt an impression". This is necessary so that what we claim to hear from God is not equated to the bible. What we hear is fallible. The bible is infallible. Whatever any man said God said, the bible has higher authority than it.

Recently a brother taught us the meaning of the words RHEMA and LOGOS. Many consider rhema as God speaking to us through scripture in the now. while logos is just the letter. In that study, we discovered this is untrue. Rhema and logos are synonyms and are used interchangeably for "word" in Greek (link to my thread in this: discovered its lost to Seun data loss). The implication is that God is not saying anything outside what he has said in the bible. When Christians read scripture and develop sanctified mindsets, the decisions they make in life will be by Gods leading. It will be as if God is speaking to them literally, everyday.

Finally, there is a great abuse of this concept of God speaking especially in charismatic circle. Even though God speaks, God is not talkative. So all this "God said..."; "Daddy said..." things are mostly errors and crafted to deceive the simple mind.

Get into the bible and hear God speak loudly to you. A brother will say to us "if you want to hear God speak, read the bible. If you want to hear God speak loudly to you, read the bible out loud"!

God bless you all.

Tgirl4real: @ Drummerboy,

May be we should nominate or vote instead of likes.

I would like to nominate Candour, Enigma and Anony1 (hope I got it right). Ermm... Don't we have female posters in this section?

The nominations takes the day.

Em, Goshen, I go with T-Mama.

Three nominations I beg.

I send my nominees tommorow.

Na secretary go suffer for collating. lol.

Who be our secretary sef

trustman:


- They shift between COMPULSORY and VOLUNTARY for the reason that they do not want to admit what the NT stands for when it comes to tithing but want to SATISFY THEIR CONSCIENCES on what they have accepted from their MoG so that ‘perchance’ if God brings it up on the last day they will be able to hold up a scorecard to God that they have not defaulted.


Anyone who claims that Malachi 3 is binding on the Church must understand that [b]Malachi 3 DOES NOT STAND ALONE. It draws from the original instructions by God on tithing. Do those ones who use Malachi 3 today even know and understand what God’s original prescriptions were? I doubt that they do. To the extent that they don’t, they cannot even apply it correctly today.
We end up then with followers who are perpetually scammed and preachers and organizations that end up fleecing the sheep in the greatest Ponzi scheme in the church today.

trustman has nailed it. But let me help bury the coffin...

In the tithe discussion thread Image123 and Rhymeyjohn introduced a new twist to the whole tithe discuss. They said "it is safe to tithe..." Mark and Candour went a great length to explain to them that we cannot be talking about carrying out a Christian practice to be safe and still think the cross of Jesus has paid it all for us.

When word got to the leadership of my former church that I was now against tithing, I was allocated to the number 3 man in the hierarchy of authority in the church. Respectable man in his sixties. The man told me "what if we get to heaven and we discover tithing was a requirement after all..." I was like "ha, pastor!" Where do I want to start from? So you understand what "being safe" meant. Paul could as well have said "be curcumcized to be safe"

This talk about FREE WILL tithing is mumbo jumbo and thorough hogwash. Those who claim to propound such doctrines are liars because the bible does not teach such nonsense. I have asked Image123 and Bidam, apostles of this doctrine, to provide one scripture that said or implied "tithing is Free Will" either in the old or new testament. Save for a multitudes of cheap vulgar languages, unfit for saints, they have not been able to do this; neither will they be able to even if the pages of this thread reach 1000.

The honest truth about tithing is not that it is free will, or it is confusing grace and law, or anything else, or is it a means for Christians to secure their salvation, or is it a means to prosperity. Rather

1. Tithing is the biggest fraud in Christendom today. It is the "Oga at the top of all 419 practices"

2. Tithing is a means of financial gain for a backslidden organized churches.

3. When the Spirit is moving Gods people give willingly; where there is no Spirit power, you need to cajole people to tithe.

4. Tithing, like in Jesus days, is men turning Gods temple to a den of robbers.

5. Every historical account shows that tithing was always restored to a vision less, and over bloated clergy system, throughout church history.

6. That the preponderance of churches in Nigerian roads is due to tithes and offerings.

7. That the tithe has become a cash cow for churches.

8. That Christians are guilt tripped to tithe, while the clergy smile to the bank.

9. That the whole fraud of tithing is grieving God and shall be a source of his future judgement.

10. That those who fight tooth and nail to defend the tithe either as compulsory or free will are in one way or the other beneficiaries of the whole tithe fraud.

Ajibam: How i wish I could present, but my name is not in the list
Those you've chosen are great, I wish the organisers the best...
#greatly looking forward to it!
Shalom

Your name is on the list now!!!

Thanks for the great work you did for us in the initial moments on the Tithe Discussion thread. Your moderating efforts have not been forgotten.

Repeat

Goshen360: I'm not saying it won't work. Actually, I will be easier and work perfectly but my concern is, we're not gonna know who clicked like on who unlike knowing by mentioning the nine people each moniker is nominating. For instance, if I'm to nominate 9 speakers from your updated list, I will verbally quote those 9 unlike me clicking for 9 people in disguised.

OK.

I think it will be better to just nominate straight away.

When does nomination start?

Candour: @Goshen and DrummaBoy, I will suggest you start with those who have indicated interest already. I think yooguyz, ihedinobi and anony have indicated interest.

Then we the audience can be allowed to nominate others. If they accept then they are included. If we get more acceptance of nominations than needed, then you can fashion a way of trimming the number down or accommodating the speakers with extra days and topics.

As soon as you signal, I'll get in my own nominations.

Cheers and weldone.

Sounds fine to me.

Over to Goshen; what do you think?

Welcome back banom, if you don't mind a few questions please, that I garnered from viewing your topics:

1. What's it like being a Christian now?

2. Has your opinion about Adeboye and some of these other Nigerian ministers changed now?

3. I see you supported Jonathan for 2011. Will you support him for 2015 and why?

4. Will you like to view this thread for nairaland gospel convention: www.nairaland.com/1826244/inviting-ideas-towards-hosting-grace?

5. Will you participate if nominated?

In all welcome back. Always good to see oldies return.

This is banom's conversion testimony:

banom: This morning, i woke up with a different mind set, the type i never had in my life, I started thinking about my life, God , religion, Jesus Christ, life in general and many other things, 

I realized i was mistaken in my idea that there is no God or creator, while there could be enough reason for me to say there is no God, there is also a Super evidence that there is God , ( For God's sake i didn't create myself , and who ever that created me is my God)  the thought actually came to me that i am a natural being, and my creator must be Super natural in other to have created me,  and just as artificial things like Cars and airplane  that  we human beings invent and create on earth don't have the ability to comprehend any thing about us, so i do not have the ability to comprehend any thing about God,  while i was thinking of all this things, i really felt sorry and i prayed and apologized to God to forgive me, 

On the issue of giving my life to  Jesus Christ and becoming a born again christian, i thought over it so many times , and it was a very hard thing to do, but i finally decided to do so because i have to believe in him first and seek him to manifest himself in my life , 

I just want to use this medium to let every one know that i have giving my life to Lord Jesus Christ, I am no longer an Atheist, i now believe in God and also in Jesus Christ as my personal Lord and savior, those who regard me as an atheist should no longer do so, i am no longer an atheist I am now a child of God,

Though I must make it clear that i do not and will never subscribe to the type of Christianity practiced by Nigerians,  the type i described on this thread, https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-332207.0.html , no i do not intend to open my self up for any hungry Nigerian to deceive and exploit me in the name of God, or to worship and adore a person in the name of man of God,  and i am still thinking if i should actually start attending any church or just do my thing alone, 

Finally, I want to openly apologize  to God here, and to any one of you i might have insulted and also for God to forgive me in any way i might have  insulted some true men of God in Nigeria, I am very sorry , i will not do it again by the special grace of God, I am now a changed person, Christ now lives in me.

God bless you.

Goshen360: As for the number of likes, I think people can just login and click like for anybody without us knowing who's clicking like for who even though all of the suggested speakers are our choices but we want to know who nominates who and who. That's just my opinion\suggestion.

I don't get you Goshen. Are you saying it won't work?

OK. maybe folks can nominate who they want to listen to and the nine with highest frequency carry the day.

But I still think you should begins to work on the topics sha

Goshen360: I will like us to suggest how many speakers we want to have, in relation to how many days and that will determine how many topics we base teachings on.

I suggest we do 3 days, 3 sessions each day (morning, noon and evening) and that makes 9 teachers. This is my suggestion.

It's fine with me Goshen

The arrangement I suggested for choosing speakers, ie highest numbers of likes, is it fine with you?

Also, I have a feeling we should also come up with the topics. Leaving it to the audience might make it too open ended and we may not arrive at destination any time soon.

ihedinobi2: Ok, brother. Forgive my presumption. I'm not begging off though. I'm stating that I may not make it. I'll still try. Thanks for the invite.

Good.

We hope you can make it. Your name will be up for nomination and you could be selected.

Just watch this space.

Image123: You are lazy and you have poor comprehension. Those are observable facts that you consistently demonstrate. Ever gone through teachers' remarks on your report cards?

Thank you and God bless you

ihedinobi2: Hello DrummaBoy.

I appreciate the invite and would have loved very much to participate because I stand on the "One Body, One Spirit, One Faith" principle. Doctrinal disagreements are not enough to deter me. I doubt that I'll make it though because this period is exceptionally tasking for me.

However this stated reason for inviting me is a very poor, unChristlike one. If you wanted to break bread with me that would have been good. But to extend me an invitation just so that it does not seem like you are excluding a group of believers who do not agree with you is not good. Be a man of your principles. When you consider a principle wrong repent it. Don't straddle two opposite paths.

Thank you Ihedinobi for your observation.

My call and support for a convention that will include all professing Christians is not in any way breaking any of my principles, neither is it a means of walking two paths.

My passion for doctrinal matters in church finds root in my sincere concern for Christians whom I consider brethren as long as they profess the name Christ. It is this concern that has engendered my participation in this project. It is this same concern that propels my position on tithes here and even my continual contribution to the WOF thread.

So there is nothing to repent of.

I respect the decision of those who choose not to participate in this convention and if you decide not to also, fine and good.

Image123: Unfortunate that you are lazy and your comprehension is poor. You're almost always available on the forum so go tracing ehn. We didn't just start talking here this year and you've being spared about six months of trace work already, so do go tracing.
i've not taught doing ANYTHING by force. Even giving your life to God or repentance is not by force. Prayer is not by force, tithe is not, fellowship is not, fasting is not, charity is not, etc. Exchanges have largely centred around stuff like should christians tithe, did Jesus tithe, is tithe only agricultural produce, and such likes. Our stance is very clear and unchanging on these.
Stop lying to change history. Even Mark here will disagree with all that sweet talk about what antitithers are saying. Do you fear God?

frosbel: If you feared God you would not have called another brother who was made in God's image mad, you will also not teach the enforcement of the tithe which is tantamount to you being part of the biggest and most fraudulent ponzi scheme known to man called the paying of tithe to the pastor.

I beg help me tell am o...

He would frown at PastorKun's use of derogatory words and even question his salvation but has no qualms using them as long as he can find a scripture that can back them up. Image123 I hope you can find scriptures for "lazy" and poor comprehension o; if not your own words condemn you.

See me see wahala ...

We say you teach COMPULSORY tithing, you complain.

We agree you teach FREE WILL tithing, you vex...

wetin you want na?

Repeat

alexleo: Sorry bro that's an error. I'm not a pastor, I'm just an ordinary church member. I don't bring out time to do thorough bible study like pastors because of my business. That's bad of me though. Most times you see me ask too much questions here or argue much, its just for me to learn better, not that I know very well. I can only contribute where I think I know. Pls delete my name and save this house of my bad. God bless you.

Actually, we are not after listening to Pastors. Its ordinary church people like you we want to hear from. I am not an ordained pastor too.

Goshen360: Our theme for the 2014 Grace Convention is:

[size=20pt]Ephphatha - Be opened[/size]

King James Bible
And looking up to heaven, he sighed, and saith unto him, Ephphatha, that is, Be opened.
Mark 7:34

Acts 26:17-18 Amplified Bible (AMP)

17 [a]Choosing you out [selecting you for Myself] and [b]delivering you from among this [Jewish] people and the Gentiles to whom I am sending you—18 To open their eyes that they may turn from darkness to light and from the power of Satan to God, so that they may thus receive forgiveness and release from their sins and a place and portion among those who are consecrated and purified by faith in Me.

God, helping us, this will be the central focus of our topics and teachers.

You're all blessed

I want to remind us all that the general theme for this year's convention has been given by Goshen360. Please let us begin to suggest topics we would like to hear on this theme.

Also, I request that you can still nominate monickers for the convention in case I left someone out in the second post of the OP.

Those who have expressed desire not to partake in the convention teaching will have their wishes respected.

Later on in this thread I am going to post each monicker as has been enumerated on the OP each on one post. All we will be required to do is to like that post and it will tell us whom you desire to listen to on the convention. Individuals with the highest numbers of likes will be the speakers for the convention.

Thank you again everyone.

@alexleo

Forgive me for omitting your name. Its added now.

Bidam: And who is the religious person liking your post Pls read me CAREFULLY cos its drummaboy that understands what image and i are saying: "I DON'T ARGUE TITHES ON A MANDATORY COMMANDMENT OR LAW". I have stated clearly that its a principle and not a legalistic exercise..Ok..Hope this guy get my point this time around#sighs#.

shdemidemi has responded in the very manner I would have. I need not add anything else to it. Pls respond to him.