₦airaland Forum

shdemidemi: Is tithing a free will form of giving?

Non of them can answer that question.

For them, no one should be coerced to tithe and at the same time tithing is not a free will form of giving.

It is called INCONSISTENCY.

"We have played the flute, you did not dance; we have sang the dirge, you did not mourn..." (Paraphrased).

BTW Image123

It is "a hypocrite" not "an hypocrite"

"an" is used for words that starts with vowels and not consonants.

Thought to chip in that bit of correction seeing its your usual past time too.

Image123: This appeared in my mentions. You are an hypocrite. You were kind of applauding and encouraging him and saying stuff like "a man of conscience and can bow to truth". Of course, we know that is all snake talk, except one agrees with you.



Tithing does not have to be coerced, you need to pray to understand that phrase in bold.



Life does not start or end on NL, get that and get a life. He does not have to go attacking anybody on NL even if he does not share their views. You also lie boldly when you say that he supports without any proof.


Christians can tithe according to 2Timothy 3v16.



Speak for yourself and for some of your fellows that have managed to listen a bit to some of what we have consistently said for years on this forum




He sang? i missed it.

You should have followed Bidam in keeping silent. You remember what Solomon said about a fool looking wise in silence? In that, at least, he is wiser than you.

Goshen360: I have some more in mind but time is the issue. We might set up an organizing committee and also do a nomination thread for the speakers.....so we can carry people along. You can PM me still and\or I might give you a call.

I like the idea of opening it up to the naira land public. The last one generated some heat bc folks felt left out. We can open a thread, ask people to nominate topics and even speakers and then we can moderate. That way, despite your busy schedule, the convention will host itself.

The above text is being proposed for a tract that shall be published and distributed to the Nigerian public by a number of naira landers.

There are just too many myths surrounding the tithes that it behoves us to find out what exactly was the tithe God spoke about in the scriptures. This issue has been well trashed out in the tract. But suffice to say that like the OP, the fact of whether to add an additional 10% to the tithe when defaulted is one of many myths surrounding tithing. If tithing has this many questions, should we not find what constitute true tithing?

Some popular myths:

1. If you default a month, you must pay 20% next month.

2. Tithing and first fruit are the same.

3. Should Christians tithe on gambling money, school fees, stolen properties, etc? This myth is a question.

4. If you do not tithe you will go to hell.

5. Tithing guarantees financial prosperity.

6. If you do not tithe, things will be tight for you.

7. Tithing is the training ground for giving.

8. If you do not tithe, you will spend such money on hospital bills.

9. God said Christians should tithe their salaries.

10. This myth is actually a joke but it gives a message: THINGS PAUL NEVER SAID TO TIMOTHY: "Timo, make sure you guilty trip those people to pay their tithes. We know its not a requirement for the New Covenant but ... hey, we got bills to pay"

One word to the OP: You do not owe anyone money. Meet your financial needs. The days will come God will prosper you so much, you would have more than enough to give. You do not have an obligation to tithe to anyone.

[size=16pt]SHOULD YOU TITHE TODAY?[/size]

The answer to the title of this tract is “No” and we shall be explaining “why” in the remainder of the tract. The subject of whether Christians are to tithe or not to tithe is a deeply contentious one today, and obviously so because it involves money. This tract shall be offering biblical proofs to the thesis that “Christians are not obligated to tithe today”.

The Biblical Tithe

When we hear the word “tithe” today, our minds are drawn to the concept of 10% of a person’s income. Unfortunately, this is not the definition the bible offers for the tithe. In fact from Genesis to Revelation there is no account of anyone giving a tithe of his income to anybody; neither was the tithe money in the bible, even though there are ample evidences to show that money was being used since the days of Abraham. The word “tithe” had been mentioned in the story of Abraham and Jacob in the book of Genesis, but it was not until Leviticus 27:30-32 would we find something close to a definition for the tithe.

30 And all the tithe of the land, whether of the seed of the land, or of the fruit of the tree, is the LORD'S: it is holy unto the LORD… 32 And concerning the tithe of the herd, or of the flock, even of whatsoever passeth under the rod, the tenth shall be holy unto the LORD.

The tithe is defined here to be of the “seed of the land”, “fruit of the tree” and tenth of the herd. The biblical tithes were agricultural products or food, they were never money. This so called definition for the tithe is accepted by many because Leviticus 27 is the first time in the bible God would mention the word “tithe” and while mentioning it, he describes it as holy and he tells us what it consisted of.

Later in other books of Moses, we find passages of scriptures that help us to comprehend the biblical tithe better. Numbers 18:20-28, Deuteronomy 14:22-29 and Deuteronomy 26:12-15, showed us that the biblical tithes were a tenth of the agricultural products Israel harvested off the holy land God had given them. The tithes were to be given to the Levites. Levi was a tribe in Israel God had separated to serve him and who had no inheritance in Israel; the tithe was their inheritance. In the process, the Levitical tribe, that included the Aaronic priests, were the people involved in the administration of the civil and the religious life of the nation of Israel. The tithes became something like a system of taxation with which the Levitical tribe was provided for as they served the people. The aforementioned scriptures also showed that the tithes were given to the poor, the widows, the orphans and the stranger. Therefore this class of people was exempted from tithing. At other times, the tithe was even eaten by the tither himself. Every scripture in the bible that referred to tithes showed that the tithe was food. When God mentioned the bringing of tithes in Malachi 3:10, he also said “that there might be meat (food) in my house”. When Jesus mentioned the tithe in Matthew 23:23, he enumerated “mints, anise and cumin”. These were spices for food.

Finally, the injunction to tithe under Moses was part of the Mosaic laws that were done away with through the sacrificial works our Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ, on the cross (Romans 10:4; Ephesians 2:15; Hebrew 8:13). If we must tithe today, we should also keep every other aspect of the laws of Moses (Galatians 5:3; James 2:10 ). If this is not practical, then it is simply not practical to tithe today.

Abraham’s Tithe

When the errors of tithing according to the Mosaic laws are pointed out, some again resort to the incident of Abraham’s tithing in Genesis 14:20. In Genesis 14, Abram had gone to war and returned with spoils of war. On his way, he meets Melchizedek who is said to be King of Salem and Priest of the Most High God. Melchizedek blesses Abram and Abram gave him a tenth of the war spoils.

This incidence is what some would refer to as a descriptive account in scripture and not a prescription for Christian practice. The story of Abraham is recorded in scripture because he would become the progenitor of two major religions that would come from God: Judaism and Christianity. For Christians, it is Abraham’s faith that is prescribed to us to imitate (Romans 4:3; Galatians 3:6-7) and not everything that he did in life – many of which were not exactly exemplary. Abraham tithed of war spoils and not his own possessions or income. In Genesis 17 God commands Abraham to circumcise himself, his son and all males in his household and that this practice was to be an everlasting ordinance with Abraham and his descendants. By the time we come into the New Testament we have the apostles of the Lamb insisting that the Christian faith was not to be ratified by circumcision (Acts 15; Galatians 5:3-4; Phillipians 3:3). They never taught anywhere that we should not be circumcised according to the Law of Moses but can be circumcised as Abraham did. For them, circumcision was circumcision. Despite the fact that this passage was prescribing a practice, the New Testament reveals that such prescription is not relevant for Christians.

Hebrew 7 shows the Christian church the reason why Abraham is recorded to have tithed in Genesis 14. God knew that in the days when his Son Jesus would come to redeem Israel and the world at large there would be another high priest functioning, that of Aaron. He therefore set up this scenario to show the Hebrew people that the priesthood of Christ is greater than that of Aaron, and the need to change “allegiance” from Aaron to Jesus. Psalm 110:4 describes Jesus as having a priesthood after the order of Melchizedek. It didn’t say that Jesus was Melchizedek and there is no scriptural evidence to support that position. Thus if Melchizedek would bless and receive a tithe from Abraham, then Melchizedek is greater than Abraham and therefore greater than Aaron. And so Jesus was greater than Aaron. Hebrew 7 goes further to show that “For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law.” So Jesus is not only greater than Aaron, the whole priestly order under Aaron had been changed to a new order under Christ. That of Aaron was carnal and needed carnal things to sustain it like tithes; but that of Christ is immortal and therefore does not need a tithe to sustain it (Hebrew 7:16). And to buttress this point, Jesus, who lived out his full potential as God and man during his earthly sojourn on earth was never recorded as collecting tithes from anybody. Our Lord could not do this because those instructed to collect tithes were from the tribe of Levi but Jesus was from the tribe of Judah; a fact that Hebrew 7 emphasizes also (verse 14). Hebrew 7 does not teach tithing for Christians.

Tithing and the Gospel

Ideally the subject of whether Christians should tithe or not should not occupy a central space to warrant publication on a tract, if not for the fact that the practice of tithing is threatening the Christian gospel. The gospel of Jesus Christ is shown clearly in the New Testament to be a free gospel (Romans 8:32; 2Peter 1:3). The idea that salvation or any gift of God can be purchased is strongly repudiated in the bible (Acts 8:20). Unfortunately, this is the impression that modern day practice of tithing is giving the world. There are many Christian churches today that make tithing compulsory. They go to the extent of saying that people cannot be members of churches except they are “faithful” tithers. Apart from the fact that such a position is foreign to scripture, it also betrays the central truth of the bible that our salvation is no longer fully paid; rather, it gives the impression that there are things we must add to it. In the days of the bible some thought to add good works to their salvation; in our days pastors are asking us to add tithing to our salvation.

Apart from the above, the impression that the world is getting about the church is not good at all. Many people have discarded the gospel message because modern gospel preaching does not only require for them to submit their lives to Christ, it also demands for them to submit their bank account to church. So that the tithe which members give to the church is the minimum people bring to church. Outside the tithe, there is also the mandatory yearly Firstfruit that members must pay as they give their whole salaries to churches in January. There are building pledges to be redeemed. There is the mission offering to be given. There are gifts that must be bought for the pastors at key occasions in their lives. At the end of the day, the ministers are the ones smiling to the bank, while church members are groaning. The lie is continually sold to church people that God blesses giving. Even though he does, these preachers should be reminded that giving is not the central subject of the bible. The implication is diverse but one of them is the proliferation of churches all around and the fact that many young people, who should be using their youthful years to be productive and make clean wealth, branch out to ministry for quick gain.

Despite the abuse the gospel of Jesus Christ has suffered in the hands of false teachers, its basic content remain unchanged. Jesus Christ died on the cross for all men so as to save men from sin. All that is required to enjoy the blessings of the cross is for the individual to understand this truth and to repent of his/her sins and believe in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ. By believing in him you will be saved. God does not require a penny from you to be saved; neither does he demand a kobo from you to keep you safe. The salvation that Jesus Christ purchased for the world has been fully paid for, we need not add a tithe, a firstfuit, pledges, a giving, or any kind of good works to make it complete. The salvation you receive by faith is a complete one (Colossians 2:10). All that God requires of you is to repent and believe. I trust that if anyone reading this tract is not saved, they would take advantage of this free offer of salvation. And for those who might need further understanding on the subject of salvation, you can refer to the contact address below this tract.

Christian Giving

While tithing is not a New Testament obligation for Christians to observe, it is our duty to give to support Christian works anywhere we find them beginning with our local churches. Indeed God instituted the tithe in the Old Testament to teach us the basic principle of giving. And the New Testament encourages Christians to give and give without inhibition. This was the position of the apostle Paul in 1 Corinthians 9:

13 Do ye not know that they which minister about holy things live of the things of the temple? and they which wait at the altar are partakers with the altar? 14 Even so hath the Lord ordained that they which preach the gospel should live of the gospel.

Please note that while the apostle refers to the Law to pursue the position that Christians should give for the support of ministers, he never mentions tithes. Paul, a man from the tribe of Benjamin, could never ask for people’s tithes. Rather he uses the principle of giving in the Old Testament, where the Levites were given offerings, tithes, and firstfruits, as a principle to teach the fact that Christians should give to their ministers and to Christian works. We see from the scriptures that this giving is free will giving. When Jesus sent out the evangelists in Matthew 10 and Luke 10, he did not ask them to live off people’s tithes. Rather he instructs them to eat anything that is given to them – free will giving. And this is what played out in Acts 4 when the Spirit came in power. We see people giving everything they had to support the gospel. In the days of God’s power, people will be willing to give. If they are not giving willingly we should ask what has happened to God’s power and not resort to twisting the scriptures for monetary gain.

This tract is not discouraging giving. In fact it is not out of place for people to give a percentage of their income to support Christian works. It could be a tenth or any other percentage. There is nothing wrong with this. It becomes wrong, however, when the tenth is made mandatory and called the biblical tithe.

Further Study

A tract like this cannot contain everything that needs to be known about the biblical tithe. I therefore refer the readers to some readily available materials on the internet for you to study more on the biblical tithes:

1. Gary J. Arnolds works on www.tithing101.com
2. Matthew E. Nerramore’s works: www.tekoapublishing.com.
3. Dr. Russel Kelly whose PHD theological thesis was on tithing: www.tithing-russkelly.com

Contact Address:

(As shall be agreed by the publishers of the tract)

EDITED

www.nairaland.com/1810931/design-anti-tithe-tract-50/1#24704734

[size=16pt]SHOULD YOU TITHE TODAY?[/size]

The answer to the title of this tract is “No” and we shall be explaining “why” in the remainder of the tract. The subject of whether Christians are to tithe or not to tithe is a deeply contentious one today, and obviously so because it involves money. This tract shall be offering biblical proofs to the thesis that “Christians are not obligated to tithe today”.

The Biblical Tithe

When we hear the word “tithe” today, our minds are drawn to the concept of 10% of a person’s income. Unfortunately, this is not the definition the bible offers for the tithe. In fact from Genesis to Revelation there is no account of anyone giving a tithe of his income to anybody; neither was the tithe money in the bible, even though there are ample evidences to show that money was being used since the days of Abraham. The word “tithe” had been mentioned in the story of Abraham and Jacob in the book of Genesis, but it was not until Leviticus 27:30-32 would we find something close to a definition for the tithe.

30 And all the tithe of the land, whether of the seed of the land, or of the fruit of the tree, is the LORD'S: it is holy unto the LORD… 32 And concerning the tithe of the herd, or of the flock, even of whatsoever passeth under the rod, the tenth shall be holy unto the LORD.

The tithe is defined here to be of the “seed of the land”, “fruit of the tree” and tenth of the herd. The biblical tithes were agricultural products or food, they were never money. This so called definition for the tithe is accepted by many because Leviticus 27 is the first time in the bible God would mention the word “tithe” and while mentioning it, he describes it as holy and he tells us what it consisted of.

Later in other books of Moses, we find passages of scriptures that help us to comprehend the biblical tithe better. Numbers 18:20-28, Deuteronomy 14:22-29 and Deuteronomy 26:12-15, showed us that the biblical tithes were a tenth of the agricultural products Israel harvested off the holy land God had given them. The tithes were to be given to the Levites. Levi was a tribe in Israel God had separated to serve him and who had no inheritance in Israel; the tithe was their inheritance. In the process, the Levitical tribe, that included the Aaronic priests, were the people involved in the administration of the civil and the religious life of the nation of Israel. The tithes became something like a system of taxation with which the Levitical tribe was provided for as they served the people. The aforementioned scriptures also showed that the tithes were given to the poor, the widows, the orphans and the stranger. Therefore this class of people was exempted from tithing. At other times, the tithe was even eaten by the tither himself. Every scripture in the bible that referred to tithes showed that the tithe was food. When God mentioned the bringing of tithes in Malachi 3:10, he also said “that there might be meat (food) in my house”. When Jesus mentioned the tithe in Matthew 23:23, he enumerated “mints, anise and cumin”. These were spices for food.

Finally, the injunction to tithe under Moses was part of the Mosaic laws that were done away with through the sacrificial works our Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ, on the cross (Romans 10:4; Ephesians 2:15; Hebrew 8:13). If we must tithe today, we should also keep every other aspect of the laws of Moses (Galatians 5:3; James 2:10 ). If this is not practical, then it is simply not practical to tithe today.

Abraham’s Tithe

When the errors of tithing according to the Mosaic laws are pointed out, some again resort to the incident of Abraham’s tithing in Genesis 14:20. In Genesis 14, Abram had gone to war and returned with spoils of war. On his way, he meets Melchizedek who is said to be King of Salem and Priest of the Most High God. Melchizedek blesses Abram and Abram gave him a tenth of the war spoils.

This incidence is what some would refer to as a descriptive account in scripture and not a prescription for Christian practice. The story of Abraham is recorded in scripture because he would become the progenitor of two major religions that would come from God: Judaism and Christianity. For Christians, it is Abraham’s faith that is prescribed to us to imitate (Romans 4:3; Galatians 3:6-7) and not everything that he did in life – many of which were not exactly exemplary. Abraham tithed of war spoils and not his own possessions or income. In Genesis 17 God commands Abraham to circumcise himself, his son and all males in his household and that this practice was to be an everlasting ordinance with Abraham and his descendants. By the time we come into the New Testament we have the apostles of the Lamb insisting that the Christian faith was not to be ratified by circumcision (Acts 15; Galatians 5:3-4; Phillipians 3:3). They never taught anywhere that we should not be circumcised according to the Law of Moses but can be circumcised as Abraham did. For them, circumcision was circumcision. Despite the fact that this passage was prescribing a practice, the New Testament reveals that such prescription is not relevant for Christians.

Hebrew 7 shows the Christian church the reason why Abraham is recorded to have tithed in Genesis 14. God knew that in the days when his Son Jesus would come to redeem Israel and the world at large there would be another high priest functioning, that of Aaron. He therefore set up this scenario to show the Hebrew people that the priesthood of Christ is greater than that of Aaron, and the need to change “allegiance” from Aaron to Jesus. Psalm 110:4 describes Jesus as having a priesthood after the order of Melchizedek. It didn’t say that Jesus was Melchizedek and there is no scriptural evidence to support that position. Thus if Melchizedek would bless and receive a tithe from Abraham, then Melchizedek is greater than Abraham and therefore greater than Aaron. And so Jesus was greater than Aaron. Hebrew 7 goes further to show that “For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law.” So Jesus is not only greater than Aaron, the whole priestly order under Aaron had been changed to a new order under Christ. That of Aaron was carnal and needed carnal things to sustain it like tithes; but that of Christ is immortal and therefore does not need a tithe to sustain it (Hebrew 7:16). And to buttress this point, Jesus, who lived out his full potential as God and man during his earthly sojourn on earth was never recorded as collecting tithes from anybody. Our Lord could not do this because those instructed to collect tithes were from the tribe of Levi but Jesus was from the tribe of Judah; a fact that Hebrew 7 emphasizes also (verse 14). Hebrew 7 does not teach tithing for Christians.

Tithing and the Gospel

Ideally the subject of whether Christians should tithe or not should not occupy a central space to warrant publication on a tract, if not for the fact that the practice of tithing is threatening the Christian gospel. The gospel of Jesus Christ is shown clearly in the New Testament to be a free gospel (Romans 8:32; 2Peter 1:3). The idea that salvation or any gift of God can be purchased is strongly repudiated in the bible (Acts 8:20). Unfortunately, this is the impression that modern day practice of tithing is giving the world. There are many Christian churches today that make tithing compulsory. They go to the extent of saying that people cannot be members of churches except they are “faithful” tithers. Apart from the fact that such a position is foreign to scripture, it also betrays the central truth of the bible that our salvation is no longer fully paid; rather, it gives the impression that there are things we must add to it. In the days of the bible some thought to add good works to their salvation; in our days pastors are asking us to add tithing to our salvation.

Apart from the above, the impression that the world is getting about the church is not good at all. Many people have discarded the gospel message because modern gospel preaching does not only require for them to submit their lives to Christ, it also demands for them to submit their bank account to church. So that the tithe which members give to the church is the minimum people bring to church. Outside the tithe, there is also the mandatory yearly Firstfruit that members must pay as they give their whole salaries to churches in January. There are building pledges to be redeemed. There is the mission offering to be given. There are gifts that must be bought for the pastors at key occasions in their lives. At the end of the day, the ministers are the ones smiling to the bank, while church members are groaning. The lie is continually sold to church people that God blesses giving. Even though he does, these preachers should be reminded that giving is not the central subject of the bible. The implication is diverse but one of them is the proliferation of churches all around and the fact that many young people, who should be using their youthful years to be productive and make clean wealth, branch out to ministry for quick gain.

Despite the abuse the gospel of Jesus Christ has suffered in the hands of false teachers, its basic content remain unchanged. Jesus Christ died on the cross for all men so as to save men from sin. All that is required to enjoy the blessings of the cross is for the individual to understand this truth and to repent of his/her sins and believe in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ. By believing in him you will be saved. God does not require a penny from you to be saved; neither does he demand a kobo from you to keep you safe. The salvation that Jesus Christ purchased for the world has been fully paid for, we need not add a tithe, a firstfuit, pledges, a giving, or any kind of good works to make it complete. The salvation you receive by faith is a complete one (Colossians 2:10). All that God requires of you is to repent and believe. I trust that if anyone reading this tract is not saved, they would take advantage of this free offer of salvation. And for those who might need further understanding on the subject of salvation, you can refer to the contact address below this tract.

Christian Giving

While tithing is not a New Testament obligation for Christians to observe, it is our duty to give to support Christian works anywhere we find them beginning with our local churches. Indeed God instituted the tithe in the Old Testament to teach us the basic principle of giving. And the New Testament encourages Christians to give and give without inhibition. This was the position of the apostle Paul in 1 Corinthians 9:

13 Do ye not know that they which minister about holy things live of the things of the temple? and they which wait at the altar are partakers with the altar? 14 Even so hath the Lord ordained that they which preach the gospel should live of the gospel.

Please note that while the apostle refers to the Law to pursue the position that Christians should give for the support of ministers, he never mentions tithes. Paul, a man from the tribe of Benjamin, could never ask for people’s tithes. Rather he uses the principle of giving in the Old Testament, where the Levites were given offerings, tithes, and firstfruits, as a principle to teach the fact that Christians should give to their ministers and to Christian works. We see from the scriptures that this giving is free will giving. When Jesus sent out the evangelists in Matthew 10 and Luke 10, he did not ask them to live off people’s tithes. Rather he instructs them to eat anything that is given to them – free will giving. And this is what played out in Acts 4 when the Spirit came in power. We see people giving everything they had to support the gospel. In the days of God’s power, people will be willing to give. If they are not giving willingly we should ask what has happened to God’s power and not resort to twisting the scriptures for monetary gain.

This tract is not discouraging giving. In fact it is not out of place for people to give a percentage of their income to support Christian works. It could be a tenth or any other percentage. There is nothing wrong with this. It becomes wrong, however, when the tenth is made mandatory and called the biblical tithe.

Further Study

A tract like this cannot contain everything that needs to be known about the biblical tithe. I therefore refer the readers to some readily available materials on the internet for you to study more on the biblical tithes:

1. Gary J. Arnolds works on www.tithing101.com
2. Matthew E. Nerramore’s works: www.tekoapublishing.com.
3. Dr. Russel Kelly whose PHD theological thesis was on tithing: www.tithing-russkelly.com

Contact Address:

(As shall be agreed by the publishers of the tract)

EDITED

Bidam: Since you have not been able to find it why not apologise for accusing falsely. You also have to apologise to Olaa..Image etc because i have never seen them advocate coerced tithing on these thread and other threads...rather it is you and your ilks that take it upon themselves to call those people who tithes judaizers, dogs, theives, false prophets etc...

Nope, i don't think that is your position. You wouldn't have started a baseless crusade against tithing which is A FORM OF GIVING A in its entirety and take it upon yourself to argue unnecesssarily against the idea of christians tithing in churches if this is actually what you stand for. When you make it a point to accuse people who tithe without providing a scriptural base where it was condemned, i make it a point of duty to point out your errors and tell you that believers are FREE to give wherever they so choose to give-if that giving(includes tithes which you erroneously call fraudulent) is done in Church.

I obey the Holy Spirit and not some mumbo-jumbo articles on the internet. Like i told you repeatedly and i am tired of doing so...TITHING IN ITSELF AS A FORM OF GIVING IS NOT CONDEMNED ANYWHERE IN THE BIBLE.
Yes we know in part but when the issue is FIXATION on tithes for many years without growing in knowledge and grace in other areas it becomes really worrisome. You that accuse tithers of legalism is actually guilty of the same anti-tithing legalism you accuse them of...Lets leave monetery bickerings and go to maturity..Souls are perishing out there.Cheers.

Bidam

When your true nature is revealed and you find yourself boxed in a corner, you begin to spit venom in all direction. Now you want me to apologize to you... Isokay, let's go there.

I was not the one who wrote "I AM ALSO AGAINST COERCED GIVING IN ANY FORM..." You did. Pls note "IN ANY FORM..." I took the pain to show you that your position on this forum is for coerced giving. You will not say you are supporting coerced giving bc that will reveal your falsehood outrightly. But you support people who play out visions of hell for folks who do not tithe. You hear of assemblies that make it compulsory to tithe and you say nothing against it. You support individuals who come and say you must pay your tithe or burn in poverty. You were here when OLAADEGBU was publishing visions of hell against anti tithers until Pastor Kumuyi spoke against such demonic visions and you said nothing. You were here when Image123 was advocating tithing for 58 days here on a tithe discuss and you said nothing.

You claim there is no scripture that say Christians should not tithe but you refuse to acknowledge there is equally no scripture that says Christians must tithe.

The position of anti tithers has been:

Tithing should not be coerced; it should not be compulsory: 2 Corinthians 9:6.

That the obligation to tithe is a Jewish practice and not Christian.

That tithing is only one of the 613 laws of Moses and the church cannot abrogate 612 through the cross and hang unto only one in the name of monetary gain.

That if at all anyone must tithe, it must be free will.

That Malachi 3:8-12 is not an admonition to Christians but to Jews.

That the tithe should stop being called money or ten percent of ones income. That the biblical tithe was food, a tenth of agricultural products from the holy land God gave Israel.

That modern ministers who preach about tithes more than they preach about anything else are fraudsters, thieves, false prophets and rogues.

That Jesus and his apostles never collected tithes.

That tithing is much like circumcision, sabbath observance, sacrifices, new moon observance and others that the apostles clearly showed were not Christian obligations: Colosians 2:16ff.

And so on...


For you to be come and begin singing, "I am against coercive giving in any kind"..., is to be speaking with the two sides of your mouth and it is called inconsistency.

You may continue to spew out venom, it doesn't change the fact that your true nature has been unveiled. I do not believe I have any more to talk to you about. And please shelve that talk of apologies.

Bidam: i believe you and drumb prob is lack of comprehension skills.coerce means to force people to do smething against there will.I have stated in clear unmistakable terms that tithinh should be voluntary ...

I may not be able to find anywhere you say tithing is by coercion but your position on this forum betrays it. How?

Paul in Romans 1 was enumerating the evil some men partake in, towards the end, he says something to this effect: that God will punish these men for what they do along with all those who take delight in what they do. The lesson: before God, not only the doer is guilty, so also all who support the doer and those who take delight in what is done. You may not support coerced tithing, but you do support those who advocate it on this forum. And the things I listed above are proof of this and you have not denied them.

This thesis: tithing should not be coerced or made compulsory or obligatory, is the position if every anti tither on this forum. We insist that tithing is not a NT obligation and should not be imposed on Gods people. This what we advocate for which you and others have vilified us.

But it shows you are a man of conscience and can bow to truth wherever you discover its advocated. Even OLAADEGBU has changed his by fire by force attitude to tithing too, with his recent articles that emphasize giving and not tithing. It shows you guys are listening.

It's the blessing of discussion and I trust God to make all things clearer to us all for we know in part.

christemmbassey: oyel well! Oyel well!! Oyel well!!! Profanity.

lol!

evening sir. I trust you are doing fine.

Bidam: Go and start reading from d beginning o the threa sir.You will know what my stand is thanks.I dont condemn it neither does the scripture.Christians are free to express their givings in the form of tithes if they so wish

Let's start from here:

Bidam: i am also against coerced giving in any form

shdemidemi: How about coerce giving in the form of tithing, are you against that too?

Bidam: Pls if there is anywhere i lay claim that the tithe is mandatory you can quote it.i am getting bored over the same old recyled arguments here.

shdemidemi: I did not accuse you of anything whatsoever, I only asked a question.

I take it that you wouldn't support a tithing law that requires 10% of monthly salary in the church.

If you are against COERCED GIVING IN ANY FORM:

Why then do you defend the fraudulent doctrine of tithing on this forum as if it is going out of fashion?

Why do you support a demonic doctrine of returning to the Torah for Christians to learn doctrines?

Why do you sanctify the pharisees, an apostate set of folks in the NT, going to the extent of calling Jesus a pharisee, all to lay justification for the fraudulent practice of tithing?

Why do you vilify those of us who insist that tithing should not be compulsory, or in other words, COERCED?

Why, oh Bidam, do you do all you do on this forum, if you believe that tithing must not be coerced?

Why do you vacillate between two opinions? If the Lord be God then serve him; if it is Baal, then serve him. Why are you neither hot nor cold, oh Bidam?

WHY? WHY?? WHY

Image123: i have to recline to checking up from time to time having read drumb's unintelligible last post to me. It seems the sanest decision to make at the moment.

You are becoming more and more difficult to understanding.

I wish you had counted the cost before coming to engage yourself here. Apparently what's being done here is no child's play.

Adios.

plaetton: I appreciate your candour.

Thank you.

plaetton: Have you ever met a gay man that said the he was sick and needed treatment?
It has never been medically classified as a disease, so why are you talking about a cure?

Most importantly. please honestly answer, in what way does a gay person pose a threat to you ,so much so that you think your society should fight it?

My position that homosexuality is a psychological disorder is a personal deduction and not based on any scientific study; even though I have heard a renowned professor of psychiatry express the same sentiments. Generally in the bible, sin is considered a defect in the mindset; so that holiness and worship of God is the consequence of renewing ones mind, Romans 12:2. Therefore, "minor" sins are a little defect in the mindset. While "heinous" sins like serial killing, paedophiles, and homosexuality are a major defect in mindset: therefore the reason why I see them as psychologically deformed.

I read the of Randy Thomas ( www.ex-gaytruth.com/encyclopedia/randy-thomas/ ) who was delivered from homosexuality through the careful ministration of a Christian group. Today he works as a counsellor to gay people finding solutions to these lifestyle. Thus the reason I say not to justify it but to see it as a problem that can solved.

I have not in any post here suggested that gays were a threats to me or that I was fighting them. Those were your own words. What I maintain is that gays should not be persecuted or maligned but can be tolerated. Gay people should also know they have problems that can be solved. Hopefully, as true Christian communities venture out to reach more and more gay people to minister to them Jesus' love, the world would realize that Christians do not hate homosexuals after all.

Goshen360

I thought to send you a PM but on a second thought decided to discuss it publicly.

It is about one year ago we organized a Grace Convention. What plans do you have towards another convention this year?

plaetton: My answers to your questons:

1. Yes, I am an atheist. And no , I am not gay.

2. I have found commands in the bible that commands to kill people for acts of homosexuality, as well as many other sins.

3. I don't don't know what you mean by advocacy for gays. I advocate acceptance and tolerance for everyone and of everyone.
As Africans, we have historically been the most rejected, the most humiliated, the most exploited, the most degraded, enslaved people on the planet. As a people who have suffered so much by virtue of our skin color, on the basis of just being who we are, we should be the most sympathetic to the causes of all those similarly rejected on the basis their natural traits.
I used to be very homophobic, and still feel a tad uncomfortable with it, but homosexuality poses no risk to my life and well being. I should not, and no one should hate another for harmless acts the person does in the privacy of their bedrooms.

Singling out gays or homosexual acts for recriminations, discriminations and hate for religious reasons is the most eggregious act of s.t.u.pidity, especially by an African, who himself has suffered centuries of degradation, also on the basis of the same religion.

4. My love for my child sacrosanct and unconditional. It would be a new challenge of love for me, but I would never reject my own child.

5. Well, most atheists that I know used to be , or were brought up in christian households or communities. Therefore it is easy for an atheist to understand christianity, many times much more than those that practice it.

Also, as former christians who are surrounded by christians in our communities, we are constantly harrassed, and suffer much the irrationality of the religious folks around us. Therefore, christianity is always in our minds. there is hardly a single that passes without some i.d.i.ot trying to show me the loving ways of the invisible skymonster.

Also, atheists are curious folks who take to time to study other religions in their present and historical forms. As far as my research and personal observations, I can tell you, and many many atheists agree, christianity is the most fraudulently contrived religion among the major world religions. It is , in my opinion, one founded on fraud, built on fraud, perpetuated by fraud, and currently sustained by fraud.

Since a cactus tree cannot bear banana fruits, it employs a lot of bizzaar and irrational slight-of-hand tricks to sustain itself. That is why it is soooo easy to tear apart and mock.

6. No , of course not.
Everyone is human first, before anything other titles. I can never in my being hate anyone on the basis of what they believe. If I can hate people for what they believe, then I too should be hated for what I don't believe.

In fact ,I have a fascination with the different belief systems found throughout the world.

Knowing the history of christianity, I am, nevertheless, bothered with my African people's obsession with it, especially in this era enlightenment and explosion of knowledge, in this same era where those who brought it to us as a tool to exploit us, have been gradually walking away from it because of it's toxic and destructive nature on the human mind.

I see these abrahamic religions in the same way I see radioactive nuclear wastes dumped in Africa, a toxic material, once useful for power, but now certain to cause very long term damages to unsuspecting victims in the present and the yet-to-be-born generations.

If you live in Nigeria, just stop and look around you, and honestly tell me if you do not see evidence of a toxic material devastating the mental and intellectual landscape of your environment.

In Nigeria, my neighbor's religious beliefs has direct negative impacts on my life, no matter how much I try to run away from it.
Have you ever been stuck on the Lagos-Ibadan expressway on a Friday afternoon evening? If you were critically ill and being rushed to the hospital through that road on such a day, you most likely would die in traffic because of your neighbor's religious belief.
I could go on and on, but I think you get my gist by now.

7. With all due respect, this last is kind of ...ehhm ehhm, silly.
First, as a christian, I am pretty sure you do not question your god's wisdom. You do not have the mental capacity to understand his wisdom and logic. This I have been reminded many many times by christians in and outside NL. If your god created homosexual gene, in the same way that he created left-handed people, very short people, very tall people, black people, white people, Mongoloid people, Pigmies, etc, then who are you to second guess his motives?
Who is the rebel and blasphemer here?

And also, when exactly does your bible say that satan came in and recreated humans with defective genes?
Satan is always the everpresent , very convenient fallguy for your imaginary god's many many failings.
lol.

Good day sir.

On a second thought, I have decided to suspend discussions on my thoughts on atheism. I think its not the subject of the thread. I will rather attend to some of the answers you provided to my questions.

Taking it by the numbers:

2. As regarding commands to kill gays under the Mosaic laws, this is true. But the laws of Moses are not Christian injunctions. Those laws were neccesary to administrate the civil and religious lives of the Jews of those days. With coming of Christ, there is a marked difference in handling such issues now. Nations have civil laws that govern them. Like the anti gay law just passed in Nigeria, different countries enact different laws to handle such issues. But religiously, no Christian has a command to kill gays.

3. I believe I spoke extensively against discriminating against gays in my blog, so we on the same page here.

But do you realize another twist in society today? Gays are the ones now discriminating against non gays. Clamping down heavily on them? Doing the same things they claim to have suffered in the past. Gays too should learn to respect people's views even if it is homophobic. We all must learn tolerance.

4. I will take a similar position. But you at least appreciate the fact that having gays in society or family is a challenge.

5. One thing that the atheist need to appreciate is that the true Christian also detest religion. The term Christian can generally depict three sets of people:

1. Folks who are generally steeped in the rituals and forms of Christianity. These individuals are not born again. They are mostly born into a Christian home and profess the name alone. The vast majority of Christendom consist of folks like these and they are the ones known to have perpetrated the worst evil against humanity through history. If you judge Christianity by these folks, you would always come off wrong. BTW they are found in every Christian denomination.

2. Those who are born again but still held captive by religious forms and rituals. These ones can be excused bc the Christian walk is a daily shedding of dead works, which these group are mostly bound to.

3. Born again Christians learning, daily, the way of the Spirit. These folks are not perfect; unfortunately only a tiny percentage of Christendom are in these class. These are the folks atheist need to learn from. I humbly submit this is the group I identify with.

Everyone of these folks can be found in all Christian denominations.

6. I agree that Christianity can be a source of nuisance sometimes. I will lay the blame at the doorsteps of group 1 and 2 above. The lag-ib express issue is a big embarrassment. I really pray that those churches will do something about it soon.

In all, the Christian perception of gays must be divorced from the unfortunate situation in which men without the holy spirit who populate majority of Christendom have handled it. This however does not justify homosexuality. Like I argued in the blog essay, I am convinced homosexuality is a psychological disorder that can respond to treatment. The world should proffer solutions to it, in the same manner it is pursuing cure to AIDS; and not justify it. This is the reason God created our first parents Adam and Eve and not Adam and Steve; or Madam and Eve.

Thank you plaetton for the response.

I will make two posts here: this one responds to your last response and the next one to tell you my perception of atheist.

I want to say upfront that you answered all my questions, save for number 7, which I will endeavor to elucidate on right now. But before I do that, is there a need for you to look up my answers to your questions and to discuss them or we simply proceed?

Que 7 meant what it said: is there a wisdom in creating man male and female if indeed there is a God? That question is double edged bc it questions the root of atheism and homosexuality at the same time.

It actually is not sufficient to resort to the "God made genes argument" to discuss the answer bc I have told you earlier that God made all things good. Evil came into this world through satan and corrupted all the good that God made and thus even human genes might be born defective with homosexuality (if indeed this is true bc I permit that argument as it has become the leading argument among gays) but the gene problem can be "fixed" in a born again person.

Now we have a challenge with this discussion. I am speaking from the point of view of biblical knowledge. You are debating from the point of view of universal knowledge. Thus we do not have a basis for discussion. However we both can create one. Since most atheist are former Christians with some knowledge of scriptures, let's discuss all these based on the bible. And I will permit your reference to any other material, source which is verifiable.

Thanks and to my views on atheist...

plaetton: 1. Is homosexual fornication a graver sin than regular fornication? How and why?

1.1. Is your fraudster neighbor on your right less of a worry to you than your homosexual neighbor on your left?

2. Who created homosexuals, god or satan?
God, according to your beliefs, created everyone with every trait and every talent, good or bad.

3. Does god hate homosexuality? If yes, why? And who's fault is it?

4. Ok . So god hates homosexuality. Fine. So What else do you know for sure that god hates?

5. Did god ask you to hate homosexuality on his behalf as part of your devotion to him? If yes, then what else are you hating on his behalf?

6. God, for example, also hates people who do not keep the sabbat(saturdays) holy. Do you also extend this hate on his behalf?

7. In summary, as humans with all the crap that is hidden in your minds and in your hearts, are you at all competent to usurp the perrogative of god's ultimate judgement onto yourselves?
By anchoring your faith on hating one particular sin on behalf of god, are you not subconsciously implying that god is perhaps an incompetent judge of his creation?

1. No. It is not. Society may have labelled homosexuality worse but both are equally grave sins before God. In fact the mere thought of immorality in ones hearth is equally as grave as the act of homosexuality. God is holy. And he judges all men by that standard.

1.1. Both are a worry to me, equally. If I live in a neighbourhood and have neighbours as you describe, I would be concerned for my kids. So I will teach my children the way of God so that on encountering these men, they can avoid them, both.

2. God created all things good. Sin perverted human nature. If anyone says he is born with gay genes - it makes sense to me. We all are born sinners anyway. So God created all things good; Satan influenced all things evil.

3. No God does not hate homosexuals. He loves them and died for them. God hates homosexuality, same as he hates fornication, murder, envy or jelousy.

4. Answered.

5. No he did not. However, like him I do hate and detest the act. Same as I would hate and detest any other sin. However, I am called to love the homosexual. There is a challenge there. But as God gives wisdom and grace we maintain a balance. I must love the homosexual enough to show him his way and possibly help lead him out of it.

6. Questions on sabbath observance, like tithing, offerings, burnt offerings and circumcision, are done away with an old dispensation. Jesus gave us a dispensation of grace now, characterized by love, faith and hope.

7. No. All judgement belongs to God. My hatred for homosexuality however is imitating God's righteous nature, something he calls me to do as his son, Ephesians 5:1.

My questions to you:

1. You are atheist, are you gay also?

2. Do you find any command in the bible that commands Christians to hate gays?

3. Why these advocacy for gays?

4. If your child tomorrow announces he/she is gay, what will be your response?

5. Why does atheism sound more like hatred for Christians?

6. Do you, sir, hate Christians?

7. If indeed there is a God, do you think there is some wisdom in creating man male and female, and not male and Male or female and female?

For all who desire to access what has been discussed on this thread with ease, pls take advantage of this post below provided for navigation through the thread:

https://www.nairaland.com/1790500/word-faith-movements-doctrine-proponents#24330864

Image123: So i re-read and it seems tman does not know what he is saying. The word "THESE" is plural. That means it refers to more than one. That means you are not talking or specific on laughter. To further cement this, he said " a distinguishing feature of the meetings of many well known WoF preachers". Hopefully, you know the meaning of 'distinguishing feature'. The meetingS of MANY WELL KNOWN preacherS. Yet no well known preacher in Nigeria mentioned or deemed fit by you. You claim to have one private one in Ibadan anyway. Can we safely conclude that those preachers i named are not WOF? To think you fellows have being itching to name names. Don' t disappoint ohhh. Also, kindly be clear on who these wannabes are. Is it Adeboye, or Oyedepo, or Kumuyi, or Oyakhilome, or who? Try to be as specific as you've been fighting to be.

Thank you for rereading the text. It helps to solve a lot of confusion.

Next, I sense the tendency for pettiness in your posts so far. A commitment to distract from the main issues being discussed and that is why of all that has been discussed by trust man and I on F7, all you are concerned with is "distinguishing feature".

But even at that, the writer has not betrayed any inconsistency as you would have us believe. Like I explained to you, WOF is an American concept. Nigerians ministers who have such influences in their ministries are WANNABES. A wannabe cannot be like the original and so if we must discuss the concept and name names associated with it, what good would there be in naming wannabes? We name the originals.

I have explained to you that despite the influence of WOF, we must thank God that holy laughter has not taken roots here though there are a very few.

As to the Nigerian ministers you named, you are the one with an obsession to associate them with holy laughter. I have not; neither has trust man. No doubt everyone of those ministers have some influence of WOF in their ministries, to what degree is what I cannot ascertain. And this is the reason for this thread. Perhaps they or their followers will find this thread someday, weigh their doctrine and practice against scripture, as we are doing here, and find grace to shed off whatever does not have root in God and his Word.

PS:

As to your query with the word "THESE" and your claim that it must be associated with more than just laughter, again you are wrong.

Trustmsn had titled that section of the post IS THIS A LAUGING MATTER? And then proceeded to enumerate THESE manifestations. So the manifestation were all certainly related to laughter. This what he said in using the words THESE:

" Did you think for a moment that these were
happening in a voodoo session? If so you’re
wrong: these are occurrences in Christian
meetings. In case you are wondering then what
these are, the answer is this: these are
‘manifestations’ reported in “holy laughter”
sessions – for real."

Its clear that the THESE here used are for the manifestations in the laughter sessions.

My views on homosexuality in the light of Nigerian politics

http://yesufu..com/2014/01/on-nigerian-anti-gay-marriage-law.html

I will return to answer some of your questions

joezakdeen: jx wanted to type fast bro. Was a typin mistake buh english is of man. I tot u came around fr us to seek d truth or u came to chek english. I shorten som intentionaly so dnt wory bro. Glory be to God dat u can understand. Tnx

I know that the new method now is for folks to mask illiteracy with Facebook English. If you really have something worthwhile to say here, you do not need to type fast; no one has said they are in a hurry here.

What I understand all round, thorough and complete Christianity to be is uprightness and excellence in appearance and presentations. Even in public forums like this. You should pay attention to such little details, they help "adorn your doctrine". If not, one holds the right to consider you unserious.

Young people, which I can bet you are, are always to eager to speak without thinking and thus the need to type with abbreviations. If you could just patiently read and comprehend matters like tithes that has been thoroughly debated on this forum, you would not be putting your foot in your mouth, like your pally, Gombs, another example of misplaced youthful zeal, is doings here.

Pls attend to the earlier suggestion I made about the text for a proposed tract on page 1, and type slowly and legibly this time, there is no rush.

joezakdeen: i wudnt waste my time here, buh it realy pains me wen pple who claim they ar christians mislead others nd yet they wil also folow dem because they hv puten down theri bible nd listening to men. Buh i asure u, all those hypocrites wil b disgraced as Christ lives. I knw God neither sleeps nor slumber fr those who luv Him nd seek the truth rather dan lies to show pple dat they knw nd they ar oga. God is truely merciful.

kai kai

English don suffer

joezakdeen: i no miss road bro. I'm only suportin d payment of tithe whereva it goes because my book of knowledge(bible) tells me to pay my tithe. Pls if u pay ur tithe, fine! Buh if u dont as an earner jux because u think pastors ar becomin rich wid ur moni,den woe onto u. Jx do wat a christians do. I cant miss road oga. Lolxx

Will you actually do me a favour if you want to be taken seriously:

1. Write with some similitude of clarity. Some of us were not taught with Facebook English.

2. Go to page 1 and extract the text of the tract I provided there. Enumerate the points you disagree with and let's discuss them.

joezakdeen: if u r afraid to go to church and giv, u r a miser and u r against God. The tithe is to take care of the men of God as the bible says and all moni given to the church has acounts, unless ofcourse a fake church. Wen u go to church, giv. Is there problem wid dat. Bsides those giving do not hv problem wid it abi? U knw wat? because God continues to bless dem wid wat they giv. Those who calim they know neva knw! If u dnt pay tithe, u r a thief to God nd perhaps u might not knw hw blind u r. God is merciful.

Another person-miss-road.

What are you saying, what are we saying on the thread?

Please read the OP.

Image123: i was hoping to take you fellows serious this once. It's either we take what you're saying at face value or not. Tman said THESE phenomenons(i guess he meant phenomena). Then he clearly (or so i thought) said "They have become a distinguishing feature of the meetings of many well known WoF preachers". It's either i have comprehension issues or he doesn't know what he is writing. You're talking to a Nigerian audience on a Nigerian forum.

Well you said it yourself: you have comprehension issues.

And usually such "issues" are solved by re-reading the given texts. So take the advice you propose to trustman above and read both his text and mine again.

Nairaland might be owned by a Nigerian with mostly Nigerians as members but the fact that it uses a www medium makes it transcend Nigeria. Also, WOF is not a Nigerian concept. It is American; Nigerians are simply wannabes. Nevertheless, even the Nigerian link to Holy laughter has been suggested in my post which I doubt you have read.

So you are virgins...

And then what?

What's the aim of the thread?

To promote chastity?

Good. On what basis?

Religion? HIV/AIDS?

What?

While I celebrate the fact that there are virgins who are still proud of being one in a world of decadence, this party/forum should have a purpose, other than just announcing you are virgins.

"For the Christian we are forever walking on a sort of knife edge: ensuring we avoid extremes. The apostle Paul tells us to speak the truth in love. The danger is for some to speak the truth only, while others talk of love alone. The former have no love; the latter have no truth. We are to speak the truth while walking in love" - David Martin Lloyd-Jones (paraphrased).

Another relevant quote here.

Image123: *distinguishing features you say? i've NEVER seen this(LAUGHTER) in Nigeria, not even in recent times or as a distinguishing feature in foreign supposedly WOF meetings. Is there no WOF movement in Nigeria? Is Oyedepo, Kumuyi, Oyakhilome, Adeboye etc WOF? Name callers anybody?

While trustman did say laughing in the spirit is a distinguishing feature in WOF, he has not said that it is in Nigeria, neither did he list any of the ministers you listed as practicing it, nor was "distinguishing feature" the only thing he said in that post.

First, from what has been said on this thread, it has been shown that WOF is not a denomination or church per se; rather it is a movement that espouse certain doctrines through key individuals like Kenyon and Hagin. The unfortunate consequence in our clime is adding WOF to the pentecostal mix.

Secondly, lauging in the spirit is not common in Nigeria but I have seen drunkeness in the Spirit. And I have heard of an Ibadan minister espousing and practising laughing in the spirit. Majority of those who are critical enough, despite espousing WOF, have enough sense not to permit this rubbish in their meetings.

Despite this, the fact that the (supposed) father of WOF, Kenneth E. Hagin espoused, taught and practiced lauging in the spirit warrant a need to discuss it here.

trustman: [size=16pt]MY SUBMISSION ON F7: HOLY GHOST LAUGHTER along with slain in the spirit[/size][/color]

[size=14pt]Is This A Laughing Matter?[/size]

1. Laughing, Crying, Shaking, Running around the building, Barking-howling, Trances, Drunkenness, Falling Out, Being "Hot", Fanning self or blowing,
2. Hooting like Owls.
3. Walking like chickens.
4. High Pitch whine reminiscent of a lively horse!
5. Mooing and Crowing.
6. Swimming in the spirit-on the back and also breast stroke style!
7. Women going through imaginary birth pangs.
8. Hopping like kangaroos.
9. Loss of Conciousness.
10. Soaring like eagles.
11. Hissing and moving like a snake.
12. Inability to speak and involuntary body spasms.
13. Kung Fu-like stances. (everybody loves Kung Fu fighting, ehn?)
14. Vomiting in the spirit and holy head-banging.
15. Stripping (Taking off Clothes!).
[b]

Quite an interesting list.

And these are not a laughing matter ra ra ati ra ni

DrummaBoy: An interesting write up. Thought it would be relevant here.
www.nairaland.com/1820823/false-shepherds-social-media

Actually the whole write up is relevant and thus I reproduce the initial text here:

[size=16pt]FALSE TEACHERS ON SOCIAL MEDIA[/size]

Nearly 78% of American homes have broadband internet, and 67% of all Americans use social media. Around 72% of all internet users worldwide are on social media. That’s over 1 billion people — and 90% of them are on Facebook.

Increasing internet access and the explosion in social media have provided false shepherds with a powerful tool to expand their platform and influence, and reach as large an audience as possible.

But all of this exposure on the internet, and social media in particular, has proven to be a double-edged sword.

Along with the greater ability to reach a bigger audience, greater numbers of people will see when a false shepherd is teaching error, outright lying, performing fake ‘miracles’, caught in sexual sin, and committing financial fraud and other crimes. All it takes is for someone to share a video, article, Facebook status or a tweet on Twitter.

With a few clicks and in a matter of moments, hundreds, thousands, and even millions of people can see these false shepherds for who they really are: wolves and hirelings.

False shepherds find this very frustrating and bothersome.

There was a time when they had more control over their public image and content. Back before almost everyone had the internet and all we had was TV, newspapers, and magazines.

Back then, false shepherds would promote their carefully crafted content on apostate religious channels like TBN, through VHS tapes, CDs, DVDs, and newsletters sent through the mail. Also in their own pulpits and at conferences.

All of these mediums were a controlled environment. A controlled environment is a setting where a false shepherd exercises an authoritative or dominating influence over others. In such an environment, a false shepherd can say and do whatever he pleases and no one is allowed to question him, correct him as their equal, or warn the rest of the congregation about him.

In a controlled environment, holding false shepherds accountable is forbidden and considered blasphemy or “touching God’s anointed.” There is an unholy code of silence in leadership and the people are afraid to voice their concerns or even hint that something is seriously wrong with “the man or woman of God.”

In a controlled environment, false shepherds are perceived as the main speaker, the highest authority figure, the most spiritually smart, the most accurate interpreter of Scripture, having the deepest revelation, and the greatest example of spiritual maturity. This gives them a great deal of control and false authority over their followers.

In a controlled environment, unfruitful works of darkness are covered up and concealed through damage control. This damage control can be a circle of yes-men who defend the false shepherd against all allegations, or an administrative assistant who screens and intercepts the phone calls, emails, and in-office visits of concerned Christians.

Another damage control tactic is what I call “passive aggressive sermons.” This is when false shepherds stand in the pulpit and target Christians who speak out and attempt to bully them into silence and ostracize them in ‘sermons.’ But this is done in an indirect manner without using the person’s name, by making innuendos that let the congregation know who he is speaking about and not to associate with them because they are “sowing discord” “causing confusion” “under God’s wrath for putting their mouth on His servant” “in rebellion to authority” or a “Jezebel spirit.”

Passive aggressive sermons are a common method of damage control. It’s like plastering a huge scarlet letter on the chest of Christians who rock the boat. They are seen as having ‘spiritual malaria’ or a demon, and very few people in the congregation would be willing to associate with them and consider what they have to say. Christians who find themselves singled out in this way are faced with two decisions: leave, or wait to be shown the door.

All of this damage control creates a wall of defense around the false shepherd, protecting him from public exposure and deflecting anyone who would question him, reprove him, and warn others. But it appears that this wall has come crashing down.

The internet and social media are not a controlled environment for false shepherds. They have lost control of their public image and content online.

Just as the internet and social media have provided a powerful tool for false shepherds to reach a bigger audience, it has also provided a powerful tool for discerning Christians to warn a bigger audience about false shepherds and their evil deeds. The sword slices both ways.

False shepherds are no longer able to hide behind a pulpit in a controlled environment where everyone admires them, fears them, and hangs on their every word. The internet is a microcosm of the real world. And in the real world, there are people who aren’t impressed by their titles, false authority, eloquent speech, degrees, charming personality, talent, wealth and popularity.

In the real world, there are people who say things like “Where is that in Scripture?” “Can you show me that in the Bible?” “How did you exegete THAT from the text??” “You’re twisting Scripture and ignoring the context.” “You made that up.” “That’s a new age concept, not a Christian doctrine.” “That’s an occult practice, not a Scriptural tradition.” “That’s not the true Good News, that’s a false gospel.” “You’re preaching ‘another jesus’” “Where is the evidence for your so-called miracles? Is there any medical proof?”

These kind of questions and comments really annoy and anger false shepherds. They are use to silencing people in their institutions and controlling who has the microphone. But on the internet, any ordinary Christian with a computer or a mobile device has a microphone.

This gives the body of Christ much more liberty and freedom of speech than many of us had in a religious institution.

Now that many Christians have a greater platform to reach more people with the truth of God’s word, false shepherds had to step up their game and find new ways to do damage control and deter their followers away from the truth.

This has led many false shepherds to resort to filing false DMCA complaints against Christians on video hosting websites (such as YouTube) to have the video(s) removed. They also engage in intimidation and suppression of the truth by filing lawsuits against Christian bloggers. On social networks, many false shepherds delete the comments of outspoken Christians and block them from their personal profile or community page. They have assistants who monitor their community pages and moderate the comments to delete all unfavorable and critical comments.

I have seen false shepherds tell their followers to unfriend ‘negative’ people (i.e., discerning Christians) from their friends list and not to add anyone who criticizes their teachings and practices.

Concluded in the previous text.

http://exitchurchianity.com/2014/07/13/false-shepherds-on-social-media/

frosbel: Just saw it, replying on the tract issue.

I have not seen the reply