₦airaland Forum

immaculatesense:
Dear Dtruthspeaker
Your not being sincere...wat led to this discussion was wen u opine sat one must be holy before one can receive the holy spirit...but I like others told u that there is no time frame...

Do you see this is a crazy statement, "One must be holy there is time frame"?

Meanwhile time frame is not the issue and I have shown you the things God would uses to mark a person holy.

I am staying in my place in not doing God's Job of judging "this person is holy" which is the sin you want me to commit as you people easily do.

As you have seen I have pleaded the facts as you have even tested and now see, that those who received The Holy Spirit are those who we little men, would say that they are in a state that we would have called holy except that we respect the fact that it is God Who is the One Who hands down the judgement of Holiness, which is proven by the giving of His Holy Spirit as you yourself showed by stating Ephesians 1:132; Corinthians 1:22

So, this case is closed and you are just going round seeking a new way to re-argue as shown by the remainder of your comments most especially as I have shown you how it applied in Samaria as you requested and you do not have a valid objection.

So, you are raising New issues (your w
wrong opinion of good work traveling all the way back to Paul's conversion {and funny you say conversion, yet you still call him a murderer, as if being born again is not a conversion. I don't want to go into all that here.} for argument and re-argument, which is not a valid counter.

If you are interested in pursuing these matters, raise a fresh thread and quote me, I would meet you there.

But on this and on this issue, you really do not have a good opposition. You lost this one.

immaculatesense:
Now back to Act 8 (Samarian crowd and Simon the magician)
The Bible did not tell us the number of days it took the Samarians to receive the holy spirit

As long as you see that it took days, which you have just impliedly admitted, I am in order.

immaculatesense:
but the Bible said immediately Peter and John arrived... IMMEDIATELY

Not in issue at all!

immaculatesense:
Now on Simon...
You said something very important but u don't understand wat it means...u said "the heart is not right in the sight of God".The question is wat does that statement means and wat does it mean to be right with God".

Fresh Issue! I know what it means even if you do not. But as I said, New Issue, New thread!

immaculatesense:
Read and learn sir...Read Romans 3:22
[22]We are made right with God by placing our faith in Jesus Chris[/b]t. And this is true for everyone who believes, no matter who we are.

New Issues! What does the bolded truly mean? I know what it means but from the way you argue, you still don't know and you would fall when I argue against you. But this is not the place and others have said everything you are going to say and they never stood against me. So new thread if you think you can validly stand and show that I am Wrong.

immaculatesense:
Simon did not receive the holy spirit because he [b]did not have faith (this is important,there is a difference between to believe

When the Bible has already clearly told us what he did not have! See, now you are cancelling what the Bible said and adding to it.

You don't know what you are talking about.

MaxInDHouse:
The two roads that one leads to life with just a lane against another that has many lanes is about individuals shey? Matt 7:13-14

The story of the good Samaritan answers you. Luke 10:25-37

MaxInDHouse:
The tree producing FRUIT that could be RECOGNIZED globally is about an individual shey? Matt 7:16-18

Do not say "I am a dry tree" answers you!. Isaiah 56:3

Ken4Christ:
I think your user name should be changed to DLIESPEAKER.

You read the evidences I quoted and pretended you didn't see them.

"When The Debate Is Lost, Slander Becomes The Tool Of The Loser"

All your evidence are One, showing your horrible attempt at saying a rubbish you imagine and wish for.

Ken4Christ:
To the Pharisee, Jesus healing on Sabbath day amounts of breaking the law. So they said;

Since when do we judge according to the Pharisees?

You really do not have any valid thing to say for as you can now see, Christ Jesus expressly and directly stated,

"If thou wilt enter into Life, KEEP THE COMMANDMENTS! Mathew 19:17

No dispute here!

Ken4Christ:
If you likened me to Satan, then you are saying that Jesus and his Apostles are Satan also. Think well before you make unguided statements.

As I have challenged you in the past, did you ever see Christ or the disciples break The Law?

Go see Luke 23:56, THE DISCIPLES OBEYED AND COMPLIED WITH THE LAW OF THE SABBATH.

AND EVEN JESUS AVOIDED THE SABBATH IN BOTH HIS MURDERING AND HIS RESURRECTION.

Ken4Christ:
Our Lord Jesus broke one of the most sacred law of Moses a couple of times. That is the law of Sabbath. Because of this, the Jews also accused him that he could not be a servant of God. Read the encounter below;

Is accusation proof of guilt?

Joseph was accused of trying to rape Potiphar:s wife, was he guilty of it?

in the Truthest mind that you can muster did you think that The Lord was guilty?

The Law of Sabbath prohibited WORK and all manners of work, it did not prohibit eating and leisurely walks.

And as you see, after He answered them they went out put heads together for obviously He did not break The Law as they know The Law should be broken.

14 Then the Pharisees went out, and held a council against him, HOW THEY MIGHT DESTROY HIM.

So, you see, you have a wrong judgement for even the evil Pharisees judges found Him innocent of breaking The Law!

Ken4Christ:
If Jesus came to upheld the law of Moses, he would have permitted the woman caught in the very act of adultery to be stoned to death. But he pardoned her.

Look again, He did!

For it is The Requirement of Law that both the judges and people in the land "be holy" (sinless) Exodus 18:20 and Exodus19:5/6

SO YOU SEE, THE LORD JESUS, UPHELD THE LAW, EVEN UP TO THE EXTENT OF SAYING

"If thou wilt enter into Life, KEEP THE COMMANDMENTS! Mathew 19:17

immaculatesense:
Dear Dtruthspeaker
Like I asked again...av u being reading the scriptures at all?
You said Cornelius was already holy because he was a good man?...

I did not say so o. I said "Acts 10:2 clearly SHOWS THE TYPE OF LIFE CORNELIUS WAS ALREADY LIVING AND THE TYPE OF MAN HE WAS long before God Moved and gave him Holy Spirit.

immaculatesense:
wen is bn a good man translate to Holiness that God requires...

Surely it is clear that God requires people "to do the good according to what He hath Commanded" and not the evil. Deuteronomy 6:18

And Acts 10:2 shows Cornelly ticking them. And we do not see him doing any wrong or evil thing.

That is my point!

I am not the judge of holiness but certainly doing wrongs and unrightness does not lead to holiness, that one I can say.

immaculatesense:
Were the whole crowd in Samaria also holy wen d holy spirit came upon dem at conversion? Carefully Read Acts of the Apostles 8:5-6,17...
Were they also Holy before they could receive the holy spirit?..all of them?

Verse 6 tells you "they gave heed" and verse 13 shows you good time had passed before God Again Moved, and made the apostles act in Verse 14 and 15.

And as you see, unholy Simon was cut off. And lo what was Peter's answer to him?
"thy heart is not right in the Sight of God" .Acts 8:21

Verse 22 shows that he was in wickedness and in iniquity.

So clearly, the others who got The Holy Spirit were guiltless.

Niramemes:
The more I look at this, the less clear it all becomes. What is your take?...

Have you not seen that that is what stupid people do? Eg yesterday's news, Fuel attendant vs soldier.

Evil makes people stupid and stupid people must so stupid things!

Judge ye everyone, is this op not a devil and a Liar whose true moniker is Ken4Antichrist?

Did Christ not clear say "I disturb not The Law, if anything I came to obey it and comply with it"?

Seeing the op misunderstands Paul is it not proper that he keeps silent?

Ken4Christ:
1. The Law Brought a Curse on the Jews.

See Devil! When we all know that it was Adam who brought the Curse that destroyeth all of mankind.

Ken4Christ:
2. The Law Brought Wrath on the Jews.

Who does not see that The Lord was angry with man that He drove him out because he disobeyeth?

Ken4Christ:
3. The Law Made Nothing Perfect.
4. The Law Made No One Perfect.

Now you show you are a Liar because Job and Daniel and David call you one.

Psalm 19:7-14

7 The law of the Lord is perfect, Converting The Soul: the testimony of the Lord is sure, making wise the simple.

8 The statutes of the Lord are right, rejoicing the heart: the commandment of the Lord is pure, enlightening the eyes.

Ken4Christ:
5. The Law Could Not Give Life.

Liar again!

Proverbs 2, 3, and 4:20 as song by Don Moen

My son give attention to my words (Oh yes)
Incline your ear to my sayings
Do not (Do not) let them depart from your eyes
Keep them in the midst of your heart (Heart)

For they are life to those who find them
And health to all their flesh
For they are life to those who find them
And health to all their flesh.

Proverbs 7:2
"Keep my commandments and live,"

Yet because of your hatred for The Laws of God and your wish to not obey them hence you are using the bad understanding you wish to have in line with your desire to remove your guilt and condemnation The Law will have over you, which is why you have now become as Satan, telling men to disobey God, as you have been doing!

Ken4Christ:
Quite a few believers still try to keep the Law of Moses which was abolished by our Lord Jesus. The Law was abolished because of its shortcomings some of which are listed and discussed below:

Is there any difference between yourself and Satan? Are you not telling people go disobey God Who spoke and said "these shall be a statute forever"

Versalex:
Mary was nobody than not a cheap prostitute impregnated by a roman guard;
She decided to cover it up by saying she was impregnated by a holy spirit to avoid her being stoned to death or killed;

See madness! You are fabricating a case against a person who after her death and you say you are not insane?

Till tomorrow people catch liars and prove guilt and the mere fact that you had to manufacture this false accusation, is exactly the proof of her innocence.

Versalex:
If mary can be impregnated by holy spirit then why haven't holy spirit impregnate other barren young ladies seeking for children nowadays ;..

God of One! It was only once He Made man and woman. Only once He spoke on the mountain. Only Once shall He come visiting man as a man.

There are certain things that God should do only Once!

DeepSight:
Do people reflect on the fact that at that time the punishment if Mary had no story to sell would have been a stoning to death. Nice story she came up with, but it speaks volumes that billions of people have proceeded to base their sacred faith on such obviously spurious spin.

Till tomorrow if her story was not true, the people would have caught her lying and as they did to the woman they caught in adultery, they would have proven her guilt, but we all know Truth, for every liar is caught. That is what God has done!

ijawkid:
Its a spirit...

Got it??

Transfered Jesus's life into mary's womb..

Simple common sense.

immaculatesense:
Dear Dtruthspeaker
I believe u av only considered Act 2 without considering Act 10 amongst others...Read Acts of the Apostles 10:44-45,47-48.... Ephesians 1:13
[13]And now you Gentiles have also heard the truth, the Good News that God saves you. And when you believed in Christ, he identified you as his own by giving you the Holy Spirit, whom he promised long ago.
2 Corinthians 1:22
[22]and he has identified us as his own by placing the Holy Spirit in our hearts as the first installment that guarantees everything he has promised us.

Even these verses you provided clearly state what I am saying.

Then Acts 10:2 clearly shows the type of life Cornelius was already living and the type of man he was long before God Moved and gave him Holy Spirit.

immaculatesense:
One more thing...no one can be holy by his/herself...

I did not say a person becomes holy by themselves nevertheless, as The Lord hath Commanded, "Be ye holy" therefore, I know that a person can do those which are pleasing in the eyes of The Lord, like Cornelius, David before his errors, Joseph, Noah etc which is what I advocate.

NinjaXmetahuman:
dude seriously, wtf are you babbling about?

I cannot even make sense of anything you say.

You just had a free Law class but I understand now that Law is hard for you once it is beyond the level known by ordinary men.

AFONJAPIG:
they should go to Saudi Arabia and Afghanistan and do that

Yep. That is what they should do.

NinjaXmetahuman:
law is actually meant to protect the right others not your own right.

E.g, you can kill yourself, the law won't sue your ghost. But if you kill someone else, you have committed murder

You can rob and harm yourself, the law doesn't care (it's your right). but when you start robbing and harming other people, then it becomes a problem.

You can wearing your burkini in private pool. Heck you can wear your agabda in a pool that belongs to you (it's your right). But when you wear it in public pool at detriment of health of orders cos of your religion, then it becomes a problem.

The Law is the one who gave the rights to men in the first place so it is the one who controls what amount each person shall have at different times, in different places because everything we do is covered and handled by The Law Itself.

And The Law will never rebel against itself, therefore, it is always balancing the rights it has given in line with itself, The Law.

Secondly, there is no escaping The Law, so if kill yourself, The Law will still get you the same way it does when you kill another. The only difference is no human agent will be used to enforce The Law.

So wearing your agbada in your private pool is the fulfillment of The Law of personal rights and liberty exercised over the right to personal property, all which The Law, gave.

But when you go into common area (Communal lands aka Public Lands), your rights clashes with the rights of others and therefore many Laws talk together to resolve the issue.

And the biggest Law of them all is "Lex Loci", The Law of The Land. And here The Law gives priority to the will of the first inhabitants of the land aka original inhabitants of the land aka natives and will uphold their collective will.

KnownUnknown:
It might be “The Lord’s House” but there is always a “man of the house” called Pastor Reverend Father Daddy Bishop Randy Fella, Jr. And Mr. Fella, Jr, usually succumbs to the serpent of greed and starts feeding fat on the Lord’s supper.

It's not The Lord's supper, they however have a right to eat it.

However, they know The Plan of God was also that they use their excess to take care of the poor, so that in the end, "there be no poor in the land".

KnownUnknown:
Maybe their woe comes after they die and meet the Lord but that’s only doctrine.

The Lord hits them even in this life but their stolen abundance will not let you easily see it.

KnownUnknown:
In reality, it seems “the Lord” approves of them.

He does not. But as you already know, the peoples of the whole earth are doing the same thing and guilty of one wrongdoing or the other, so, God has switched to Another Plan!

KnownUnknown:
Is there really a Tarbanacle of the Lord when even the oldest Tarbanacle is the den of thieves and liars?

Read again it was over run by the same thieves and liars who were the Lawfull administrators of the Tabernacle as you see The Lord had complained about from Isaiah to Malachi, before the declaration of "den of thieves and liars".

KnownUnknown:
The only way there can be a “Tarbanacle for the Lord” is for the people to return to the communal style of the creators of the belief system that the Catholics turned to Christianity. If they can’t live like ascetics (who really wants to?!) , then they should at least own the church in common and abolish the hierarchy that leads to “divine exploitation”.

Unfortunately, the system is set up for exploitation despite the appearance that it is set up for the welfare of the adherents.

Nothing can be done today. That's what "it is Finished" also means.

Now, like Chess, the next move is God's Next Move; which is "Check Mate" or in the card game 'whot", "Check up"!

KnownUnknown:
There is nothing new about clerical authorities getting rich of the flock but I’m sure some people still think and ask, what does god need more for?

The priests get to live comfortably because that is the way it has been set up since ancient times. Plato alluded to it in The Republic, the Priests(Levites. Even their name calls to mind “levy”) in the Bible and their tithes, ethnographical stories of ancient Egypt and the priests of Amun and Osiris, Charlemagne and the Catholic Church in Europe, the history of the Catholic Church (Vatican bank), prosperity preachers etc.
The argument was that since the priesthood included the smartest males in society whose job included both sacred and profane duties, and who could, by virtue of being smarter than the rest and having control of the military, turn into tyrants, it was wise for them to live in communes where they held property in common. Since they had no personal property and were fully dedicated to the diety and the law, the society had to provide for them, hence the tithe or levy.

Overtime, the concept became perverted and the priests became tyrants anyway and got very corrupt and wealthy e.g. Catholic Church who build wealth on earth while preaching heaven to the people.

Pay if you must, but maybe charity begins at home not church.

An appluadible presentation. However, when we obey God, we know woe shall befall he who doth not obey The Lord being a keeper of The Lord's House!

But, the question really is, is thy Church, truly the Tabernacle of The Lord or "The Place Where The Lord hath Put His Name" as Written? If not your tithe is a waste. Then it would be better if you gave to the poor

Kobojunkie:
The ruling makes sense to me. Common Law, so long as it does not violate human right, shouldn't have to bend for religious reasons. Instead, religious individuals ought to bend to comply with common Law abeg!

It violates their human right of personal right to cover up unclothedness (even if it originates from the Muslims).

However, this is not an Islamic land therefore The Law of the Common good overrides the particular good especially in public facilities where they are unable to accommodate their differences.

So use your burkini in your own pools and lands.

Wilgrea7:
Splendidly organised? Yes. The universe is without a doubt, an awe-inspiring creation. Intelligently designed? Sure. I can agree with that too.

You are still bringing in the universe even when I have shown you that we can not validly and Truth fully talk about it because none of the 2 of us and the billion of the rest of the world, have truth fully gone out of this House called earth to go round the universe, such that we can give Truth Full Report on it.

So, the Truth that we can give if you are interested in Truth, is The ones we can see and we can find and have found "on the earth".

And we can put down the Stones of these Truths, to stand on it, as we build upThe House of Truth, if you are still interested in Truth.

So, would you confine your self to this earth where we can both easily give Truth Full and verifiable/Confirmed Truths and evidence of Truth? (After all we are both on the earth and the question of God rises from the earth. So let us settle it on the earth first, before we go any where else, if you may)

So would you take the correction and confine the debate to the earth, that we both know very well like this first steps of writing begins with A,B,C? (The earth is our A,B,C, so let us do the A,B,C,if you truly care to know the Truth)

Then I can respond to your answer!

Wilgrea7:
So you want me to
I'm not trying to dodge the question. I'm trying to avoid making a logical fallacy.

Similarly, I will also say "things that begin to exist cannot create themselves" rather than "things cannot create themselves" because the latter falls victim to an infinite regress, which looks for the cause of the first cause, which is, in itself, contradictory. I hope you understand why I use the phrase "begins to exist" now...

"Infinite regress" and this is the error that you are operating on.

Truth is Based on "As is Seen" and not on conjectures and dreams and peoples thinkings (philosophy). Truth is based on Real-eye-ity

Which is why I limited our debate to our real living in this world by saying "IN THIS WORLD"

Hence my open ended question which flowed from your answer "anything that begins to exist has a cause".

Therefore I ask, since this earth has a cause, would you say that the things in existence show that they are intelligently created and splendidly organised?

Maynmann:
What a jargons
I know you’ve heard this before; you are dumbest theist on nairaland.

Because you see now that your great stupidity has made me decide to never talk to you, so in your stupid frustration, you cry and lie and speak rubbish.

Wilgrea7:
I sincerely do not get your point. I never said that things can create themselves. I never claimed so.

You never expressly and directly and undisputably said that "things can not create themselves". Go check it out and see.

Wilgrea7:
I said everything that begins to exist has a cause, and for the sake of the discussion, I will agree that our universe as we know it today began to exist, and therefore has a cause. I'm not dodging anything. My position still stands.

Our debate is not on the universe for as I said up, none of us can give Truth full testimony about the universe as you and I and a billion others can not and have not gone beyond this House called earth such that we can give Truth Full testimony about the universe.

So let's stay on this House that we both know very well and that starts with my follow up question since you agree that things can not create themselves.

Therefore, A thing is created because an Intelligent Creative Being brings it from "No thing" to "something?

Or put in another way, does it not require

1) A Living Being,
2) Ability and Power
3) intelligence and creative intelligence to create a thing?

Kobojunkie:
What do you gain from lying to disparage my person yet refusing to provide scriptural evidence to actually invalidate any of what I state of the Word of God, Jesus Christ?

He is not lying! You can not count the number of persons who have called you evil and that you express the Bible upside down. You are exactly like Satan, bending Truth into other things as still say God Said it or Christ Said it.

Lighthouse50:
I Are there ways to cofirm the holyspirit has come in apart from speaking in tongues?

Yes! Speaking in tongues is the gift of linguistics that is the power to quickly learn and speak different languages that you are exposed to.

gaggatu bosa hagahigi is A FRAUD knowing that it would impress stupid people.

Lighthouse50:
Thanks sir, please can one fast for it cos waiting too long leads to weariness

If you like scratch yourself in addition to the fast, you are wasting your time.

McStoic:
. You can be born again today and also get filled the same day. ...

Lie, Lie! Even the disciples took much time before The Holy Spirit came on them.

A Holy thing can never be meddled with an unholy thing. That is The Law!

Lighthouse50:
Dear readers, Acts 1 vs 8 says 'and you shall receive power when the holyspirit falls on you. Then you will be my witness from jerusalem to the uttermost part of the earth' Holyspirit is needed to receive power. Please how do one get the holyspirit? How long does it take to get it? Those who have gotten it, can you tell us your experience. Waiting for responses.

Only when you are no longer Satan's child.

Holy and unholy things do not mix. That is The Law!

And speaking Truths as you have just done is a step in the right direction.

So, you are not yet saved, you just maybe applied to be saved.

Iamme01:
I ask in faith
I am a firm believer of asking and receiving when I need it, that's my definition of a blessing...

Did you comply with this Law? I bet your house and church never taught you this

Jeremiah 7:23

“But this thing commanded I them, saying, Obey my voice, and I will be your God, and ye shall be my people: and walk ye in all the ways that I have commanded you, that it may be well unto you.”

Translation! "Don't obey my voice and Satan shall be your god and it would never be well with you!

Iamme01:
I was raised in a Christian home and have strongly held on to the belief that there is God but lately, with recent events, this has rocked my faith ro the core and has given me reasons to question what I believe.

Firstly, when I think about the mass killing that happened recently at owo, I cannot but question if God exists. What kind of God allows kids to be robbed of parents, parents of children, and in His assumed House for that matter. A church should at least be a safe place if we want to go by how powerful God is. He's all knowing, why didn't he avert the crisis.

Secondly, I spoke with a Friend lately who has four kids and recently separated from her husband of 18yrs. She told me how she prayed and fasted and sowed seed for God to heal her marriage but alas, nothing happened, the marriage kept going downhill and finally separation. And she said to me, God does not answer prayers.

Thr last but not the least is that for the last 5years, I have asked for one prayer point, for God to fix my relationship, this has also packed up. I prayed, fasted, sowed, believed things would turn around but sadly nothing happened. I did everything humanly possible but it seems like it was meant to fail. I'm moving on.

So I'm doing a retrospective thinking, I have seen that all the things I never strongly never prayed about happened easily for me. I also have Friends who have deserted Christianity and are still pulling their weight regardless.

This has really given me reasons to question that there might be no God afterall. I'm genuinely seeking reasons to believe there is God.

Correction! You were raised in a "do what your church says home" and not do what God says home.

Therefore, God does not know you!

And these are the days when all who do not follow The Lord are Casted Out from His rain and sun aka Rapture!

So, now they are their own gods and they are to do everything for themselves including providing for themselves and protecting themselves.