₦airaland Forum

Continued from the Liverpool thread . . . . . . .

What kind of rubbish is that you came up with? are you comparing Arsenal to the whole of the German Bundesliga?  no be club we dey compare? abeg show me Munich players. what concerns me with Schalke, Leverkusen and Bremen? Na Bundesliga yu dey support abi na Munich 

[Quote]Give me a list of Arsenals academy PROMINENT graduands that can compare to Thomas Muller, Phillip Lahm, Holger Badstuber, Toni Kroos, Bastian Schweinsteiger, Thomas Hitzlsperger, Owen Hargreaves, or Zvjezdan Misimović someone who started at the Arsenal Academy I can only think of Ashley COle[/quote]We've been here before: Cesc Fabregas, Clichy, Song, Merida, Ashley Cole, Matthew Upson, Niklas Bendtner, Carlos Vela and dnt yu dare start your usual underhand tactics of saying that these players came from other academies when the same can be said of your own players.

[Quote] Denis Yilmaz, Taygun Kuru- Turkey Christoph Knasmüllner Austria[Austria][/quote]So apart from Austrians and Turks there is no place for other nationalities in Bayern? did you see how many nationalities are represented in my post on the pool forum?

[Quote] Can you confirm the clubside of the Argentine keeper at the time of the tournament?[/quote]Damien Martinez has been an Arsenal player since he clocked 16, the club cannot bring him into England on a permanent basis cos of his nationality so he is staying on with his club till 18 while coming over to the academy during the summer breaks.

Also cast your mind back to my original statement I never cast it in concrete that we had the best young players worldwide because that would be difficult to prove and might be a fuzzy statement to make the original statement was clarified with the word "Possibly". I however stand by my statement of us having the best players in England which we confirmed by doing the double at U18 level last season and are on course to repeating this season.

I also agree that Leverkusen seem to have a better youth program than you presently have at Munich, have quite interesting young players coming up and are likely to be overtaking Munich in the Bundesliga soon (or already have). Are you considering a change of allegiance yet? 

With all due respect to Pool supporters, I'm taking this discussion back to the Munich thread.

debosky:
Ade is earning above 100k at City, but again, I don't think Walcott can be earning 60k right now. As you said, the key thing is performance.

Ade is on 170K at City, he is the 2nd highest earner after Robinho, he was on about 100K when with us. I feel for Theo atimes because he has to prove that he is now within the big boy's rank when I'm not actually sure he has actually reached that level and Arsene will not pay someone to be a bench warmer so its make or break time and he is now feeling the heat. Ade's contract before his 30 goal season was in the 35k to 40k range so you see where the beef arose from when he couldn't reach those heights again after pulling all sorts of public stunts to get his raise.

dayokanu:
Tell us about the exploits of Arsenal youngsters at Under age tournaments to come to this conclusion.

This year alone we have UEFA U17, and U21 How many Arsenal boys were on display?

We had FIFA U21 and U17, How many Arsenal boys shined and compare them to other clubs.

Werder Bremen, Leverkusen have better youths than Arsenal and thats a FACT!!!!

Are we talking about Club or country now? 

Arsenal players at U17 World Cup: Sead Harjrovich (winner with switzerland)
                                            : Damien Martinez (Argentina Keeper)
                                            : Oghuzan Ozyakup (Netherlands skipper and playmaker) came 2nd at UEFA U17

Arsenal players at U20 World Cup: Fran Merida (Spain playmaker)

Arsenal players at UEFA U19     : Henri Lansbury (England)
                                           : Rhys Murphy (England)
                                           : Gavin Hoyte (England)
Note: England came 2nd in this competition with Ukraine as winners but of the 3 Arsenal reps only Gavin Hoyte was allowed to go to the Under 20s despite the coach complaining about the release of the others along with Kyle Bartley whom yu saw play CB against Olympiakos.

Arsenal players in the Current French U19s: Gilles Sunu and Francis Coquelin
Arsenal players in the Current Polish U21s: Wojciech Szczesney
Arsenal players in the current Dutch U21s: Nacer Barazite (out due to injury)

I'm yet to mention Ramsey who is a full Welsh international at 18 or Wilshere who is an England U21 player at 17 or the host of others already lining up behind them such as Benik Afobe and Chuks Aneke who are English U17 players.

Can you tell me of one promising Bayern youngster who is not of German origin apart from Alaba?

illusion2:
while i don't think its appropriate to discuss Liverpool affairs with a non-Liverpool fan,I would like to take you up on this Ngog matter. . . ,  . can he really be compared with other up & coming 'youngsters (Wellbeck,Oberton,Ramsey,etc?) . . .leave story I beg,he's just okay nothing spectacular. . . . . . . .

Ngog at the least is as good as Welbeck, Welbeck is still riding the wave of Manure's high at present because they can't do any wrong and still have the swagger of champions having won it 3 in a row. The likes of Giggs, Scholes, Carrick and Berba still bring a lot of experience into that team and are pulling their asses from the fire due to their know how.
Obertan looks classy but I'm yet to conclude on him but Ramsey is a unique precocious talent who is already a full international for Wales at 18 and has been playing in the U21s since 17. I beleive you at the least have youngsters as good as Manure, I know Arsenal has the best young players in England at present and possibly worldwide but Liverpool comes a very close second. Trust my judgement, I follow youth football a lot.

The difference between Arsenal and Liverpool is Arsene's commitment to youth football and exposing our youth to older and more advanced opposition as quickly as possible, for example while that young team was facing Olympiacos in Greece, another equally young team of largely Under 17s was taking on a Fulham reserve team with players older than the team facing Olympiacos.

debosky:
Walcott isn't on 60k per week that's for sure. Secondly, you just don't pay a player money cos he's English - if he is quality then he deserves it SIMPLE. It's not about just giving money for the fun of it.

I don't believe so much about player power - Wenger should be able to negotiate a hard bargain - Wes Brown was forced to remain at Utd cos the club negotiated well, so we can do the same as well, while paying a fair wage not exorbitant amounts.

Walcott is on 60K per week confirmed, after the likes of RVP, Cesc and Gallas he is in the next band of higher earners, he even earns more than the likes of Sagna and Clicy and possibly even Vermaelen. His contract had to be increased because he was earning less than 1/3 of what the other players in the English national team were earning on his previous contract. Clichy, Sagna and Eduardo are in the 45K - 55K bracket with Song recently moving into that band while Vela's new contract is between 35K and 40K. Check out the recent version of FM2010 and you'll get all the info.

Actually I'm not bothered much about what he earns if he performs, to whom much is given and all that blah blah blah.

Player power dey o, its not easy keeping a full mexican international when there are others looking for him and can wind down his contract and leave for free, remember also that we've spent so much on him already having had him on our books since 2005.

Don't mean to be cheeky, can you guess how much Ade is earning in City?

follypimpi:
Alex song just needs to learn how to shoot on target now and all will be crease.

Gbam! I suggested this to a friend a while back and he said he didn't think Song had the physique to take accurate shots being top heavy but I think he can work on it.

illusion2:
The man has probably put in lasting damage on our great club. We don't have a good bench,no serious youngsters coming up & financially in dire straits. . . can it get any worse? 

I don't agree with this, I believe Ngog is a serious youngster coming up bloke is just 20 and not looking out of place, don't do a disservice to your club. Atimes its better to reverse and then gain momentum to move forwards. Arsene has shown the way with blooding players early and with Pool's financial condition you might be forced to toe that path too. I think you have a good number of exciting yountsters coming up, Insua and Spearing are actually not bad and Pacheco is also interesting.

hmmm Debosky, yu've got a point and we don't have the full contract details but its all about player power (remember Flamoney?). What I'm glad about is the fact that Song got a new one cos he deserved it. I mean, if Walcott is on 60K per week then Song should ideally be on 80-100k per week but we know Theo is their pikin and filling our English quota Arsene is often accused of not filling enough so no need to be too vexed about it. I hear Song is now in the 45k to 55K bracket and will likely be offered an improved contract yet again next season.

Quote of the day:

“That’s my secret. It’s nice that in football some things can’t be solved by cameras!”

former gooner Jens Lehman on being asked if he took a comfort break during his side’s midweek Champions League encounter against Unirea Urziceni.

What happens to Arsenal is what happens to a prophet who isn't respected in his own town, the English press always find an opportunity to take a dig at Arsene and Arsenal and that is the picture the outside world picks upon and label the club with. Would Sammer make the same statements if it was say Bayern who played those youngsters?

Sauron, you talk too much rubbish? how could Vermaelen have prevented Diaby from heading into his net or stop Almunia from having a blood rush to the head when we played against yu?

Gekko:
I also enjoy watching Song play mehn!, this dude's progress is exceptional.  He is so smooth and agile on that ball for a defensive mid.

The truth is, give Song some time in the Cesc role and he will do a creditable job there, Ball control, passing ability, ball retention and confidence he's got in abundance. He convinced a lot of guys when he was the best MF in Charlton when on loan there as a 19 year old despite his initial underwhelming earlier appearances against the likes of ManCity.

That is one thing Arsene preaches, he wants a player with a good technical level first of all and then mould them according to their physical/athletic attributes. I think that is what Theo lacks which makes him look out of place in Arsenal, the fundamental technical ability is quite erratic despite his obviously exceptional pace.

I've already started the countdown for the day Fabianski will take those gloves from Alamumu. Given a decent run in the side, I beleive he has better shot stopping ability than Almunia though he is still an acting Goalkeeper until Tech9 comes of age.

nateevs:
So Gallas caused Vermaleen to kick the ball into his own net. Gallas brought Cesc down for the free kick and Gallas was too short in the wall and allowed the ball to sail over and then in for a goal. . or Gallas' vision (or lack of vision ) impaired Almunia's and he didn't see the ball coming. . ?

When we play a 3/4 fit Gallas in defence and had RVP out, anything can happen. I won't talk too much, you have beaten us already at the emirates this season just like we beat you at Stamford bridge earlier last season remember? return leg dey for Stamford bridge and we shall see then. 

nateevs:
@Duduspace.

First one settled. .

Next one. There's no way you beat us with the same squad. We weren't lucky when we beat you. . The gap is too convincing to think you can stop a second defeat. Chelsea are guaranteed 6pts against Arsenal than they are against Wolves.

Please stop referring to last season at the Bridge. We were being coached by a man who couldn't be bothered to put a man on the post. We've met three times since then and you know it's normal service.

Chelsea are going into the transfer market in Jan. . and we are buying big because of the impending transfer ban. You guys keep forgetting that.

I tell you, Chelsea will increase in depth and Chelsea will roll on with or without Essien.

Biggest lie, take one of Drogba and Essien out of the equation and we will beat you anyday, take both of them out and we will massacre you anywhere in this galaxy. That result flattered Chelsea too much when in fact you didn't play anything on the day, I'm really lookin forward to the reverse at Stamford bridge. You guys met us at the wrongest time this season when we were making too many adjustments, isn't it instructive that the goals that mattered came via Gallas' route? I believe his vision was impaired on that day, he only wanted to play becos he had it in bad for his old club.

nateevs:
Ooops!

Leave me jare, don't you atimes do "What if" scenarios? bloke is already injured what is done is done, its only the timing I'm talking about. Abeg no turn me to winchy, I no dey suck blood for nite.

edoyad:
V3 et al what are y'all trying to do ? Kill NL sports section most beloved mongrel ?
What do you think the Animal Rights Activists would say if the see what you've just done to Bingo ?

Bingo Bingo Bingo, come here boy

Ehm, _{clears throat} there are real dogs, and then there are Bingoes.

nateevs:
You so wish bad for Chelsea. . . Is it not so cool to know the only way can beat Chelsea to it is to pray for injuries, ACN and dip in form. You lot are a bunch of nut-heads who only thrive on others' dismay.

Chelsea will roll on without Essien mate.

Chill my guy, when exactly did I pray for anyone to be injured? I was only reporting breaking news and pointing out that it is a test of Chelsea's strength in depth just as we are being tested with the many injuries in our squad at present.
We shall all see how Chelsea performs without him, I remember the early part of last season and when we beat you at Stamford bridge.

Ed, I think we usually do well against Pool in the league and provided we don't have too many injuries we should be fine. Breaking news that Essien is out for 3 - 4 weeks, now we will see how good Chelsea's squad depth really is (if only this had happened b4 we met them). Chelsea is never really the same without Essien or Drogba.

@Debosky

as I said on the main match thread, aside from Theo I'm not drawing any long term conclusions from this match cos I know Vela has the X factor infact I think he atimes makes life more difficult for himself in overcomplicating things or maybe he is just unlucky at present. Theo, I've almost given up on and this game only reinforced previous performances. I'm almost of the opinion he is a major reason why Wilshere and Merida didn't turn up today, remember how well they combined with Nasri against Pool in the Carling cup?

I judged them based on their performance today, they were there to get the goals and they did not and they can't hide behind the excuses of the MF not creating chances as Ramsey was imperious today.

Good experience for the boys

Standout performers on the day: Fabianski, Song, Ramsey

Old reliable: Silvestre

Newbie errors: Bartley, Cruise, Gilbert (has retrogressed)

Can definitely do better: Wilshere, Merida (I think some seniority vibes made them play within themselves)

Flops: Vela, Walcott

[quote author=~Sauron~ link=topic=362998.msg5081346#msg5081346 date=1260394478]Exactly!!!
Walcott is a flop for Arsenal and i think he woulda been a much better player if he had stayed at Southampton.
He couldn't handle the lime-light.[/quote]I think Theo's case is a bit different, its not just about the limelight but I think he was misjudged on his early performances which suggested a dangerous winger. He is blessed with pace that makes you drool but Arsene has been trying to make him a more rounded footballer for the past 4 years with quite limited success. He is definitely a premiership level player and would probably thrive if Arsene plays him like Owen was played those days at Liverpool but that is not the Arsenal way. He just might not be suited to our style, his decision making and link up play is still as bad as when he first came to us.

@Vicade

No one is giving up on them, we are judging the game based on what we see and not drawing any long term judgements (Theo apart).

[quote author=~Sauron~ link=topic=362998.msg5081221#msg5081221 date=1260393595]VELA is a very good player but his confidence is shot to bits when Wenger won't play him regularly.[/quote]That chap is not low on confidence in anyway, he is just cocky didn't need to do anything spectacular to score those chances. I've watched him play about 3 times now for Mexico and he scores half chances for them, he is too relaxed when playing for Arsenal.

One unsung hero tonite is actually Fabianski, 2 or 3 more performances like this and Alamumu's position should be in danger.

edoyad:
Where exactly was Vela brought from ?

from a club in Mexico after his golden boot performance at U17 world cup of 2005, then loaned off to clubs in spain for about 3 years to get an EU passport.

HNIC:
Vela should be substituted joo
What was that?

I'm actually Pe**d at him right now, seems to always want to score a spectacular goal of some sort. such a cocky git, he needs to get into the first team of all.

HNIC:
After some time, Song should come out, we need him fresh for Anfield on Sunday.
Vela , Theo and merida have been poor

Spot on assesment, those 3 have not covered themselves in glory at all, Vela doesn't play like this for Mexico and I don't know what is up with Merida today but Song and Ramsey have been a class above the others. Wilshere needs to start getting games .

proudly9ja:
Arsene should bring in JET for Merida or Walcott

Na Coquelin me wan see, at least he brings some urgency to our play but JET wouldn't be bad at all. See the amount of work Ramsey and Song have done in the MF but Walcott and co are messing it up.

Vela would have scored that goal if he was playing for Mexico, doesn't he realise he is one of the older players in this team and see the rubbish Theo is serving us again today? can't even put in a corner and he is acting as a big man in the team.

manmustwac:
Well u better win at liverpool this weekend coz we're guaranteed to beat bottom of the preimership wolves at home.

Are yu sure? yu know your boys flatter to deceive.

Signs of nerves from the lads particularly Bartley initially, Wilshere is playing within himself and Theo remains underwhelming with his wrong decision making but Song and Ramsey doing well in the MF. Besides which kain useless seniority be dis one? has Theo ever scored a freekick in his life? why not allow Merida whom we know has a thunderbolt in his left foot?