₦airaland Forum

debosky:
I repeat - writing off a layer who is barely 20 is a joke - he’s had TWO shoulder surgeries to correct a genetic defect, been overworked over the summer and as a result is just putting together a string of games. This is the player you want to write off?

I guess everyone is entitled to their opinions, but Walcott WILL come good.

A player who has had barely 4 games playing 4-3-3 will take time to adapt. If other more experienced players were given that benefit of the doubt, theo should be given the same as well.

He will come good - he needs to improve his decision making, ball control and finishing. He can already beat players, knows how to get in the right positions so the remaining aspects will come through soon enough.

@Debosky
I am not writing him off, and I'm not even jumping on any recent bandwagons (my issues with Theo have always been there so not a knee jerk reaction). Methinks you know a world beater when you see one. I lost hope in Theo during the Olympiacos match when playing with the young ones (I mean see what Ramsey who is younger and Song did on that day?) and this is a player who has been part of the first team setup for about 2 years  now, when exactly then is he going to grow. Arsene has basically got 3 choices IMO:

1. Continue playing him on the wings and he keeps messing up
2. Grant him his and the English establishment's wishes to play central and he still fumbles there as he can't stand the pressure
3. Cut our losses and focus on other players with better attributes (IMO) like Wilshere, Merida and I dare say even Sanchez Watt.

2 is not a good idea as Theo was hyped beyond his ability and this will only add to his problem, the other 2 is totally Arsene's choice, he might be looking to give Theo a "Soft landing"

edoyad:
But dudu you just said it yourself, the exposure and early intro to the big stage is really taking It's toll on him. Start Pearce just wouldn't let the guy be Inspite of the fact that he is already a full England International. I don't remember Rooney having to worry about age grade competitions when he burst into the scene.
Look how him and Gibbs have been struggling with injuries all season long which could be an indication of exhaustion itself. Personally i expect more from him but i can also see the reality of other inhibiting factors.

Theo's case might give Arsene a black eye for some time. I know Arsene will give him every opportunity to come good but I'm not so sure it will be in Arsenal's best interests, he is not coping well with pressure and I'm seriously beginning to doubt a sufficient level of the basic technical ability required of a player in the wengerball system. The lad needs to go back to the basics and very quickly too.

jalether:
Are you implying Wenger lacks the ability to develop talents

If that is what you infer its okay, but for every Theo I'll give you Cesc Fabregas, Clichy, Song  e.t.c. who came to Arsenal about the same age as Theo.

edoyad:
Dudu even you ? I'm really sad on this day for Theo. Do you know the same things they're saying about walcot is the same that were said about Henry in Italy ?

Ed, yu know I don't like dissin our players and will stand up for them most of the time. Theo's issue is a bit different cos he was either exposed too early or has stalled somewhere. Honestly, go back and watch the Olympiacos game, it is not just about the end product (which he is not even getting these days) but about your total contribution to the game.
I never watched him when he was hot at Southampton but my pals said he looked the real deal then, I wonder where it all went wrong cos one of the things Arsene is particular about when scouting is technical ability[b] but it is becoming increasingly difficult for Arsenal to carry passengers these days,[/b] if you're not capable yu'll be found out quickly in an Arsenal team full of players with confidence while in possession. For me Theo just sticks out like a sore thumb.

[Quote]
That said,but for the piling injury list,i do not think Walcott would have been starting games.He's been put into the thick of things AND trying too hard too impress cos of the forthcoming WC.I will rather he's eased in but then how many fit players do we have now?[/quote]@Kay_pumpin
While I understand what yu're saying about age and all, Theo's problem has partly been caused by the media hype and all, but that is exactly what separates the greats from the ordinary. At 18 Owen had been to the world cup and at 20/21 he was already  putting them goals in anyhow for Liverpool. At 18, Rooney had been the best player by far for England at Euro 2004.

Theo needs to  forget about all the hype that had gone before and come to terms with his limitations as a player, Even when Theo was getting the goals, there was a friend of mine who always insisted he had no footballing brain and is an extremely limited player. I am one of those who believed in giving him time before but now I'm reaching the conclusion that this experiment has a very high probability of failure. If I were Arsene, I would start sharing the game time Theo is getting now between Wilshere and Merida if it were possible (though I still believe Arsene knows).

I am convinced Arsenal can't go wrong with Wilshere because he has all the basic tools you need at the top end (skill, touch, confidence, vision and initiative) which are either totally lacking or at the least as basic as they were when Theo first joined us at 16, Jack only needs to bulk up physically. We should have been seeing improvements now but we are not, we suffered long with Theo becos at a stage he seemed like the only likely genuine English talent that could come through and also cos we spent so much on him.

Theo seems totally incapable of playing Wengerball, he might thrive playing somewhere central with a big man/little man combo like Defoe (though I dare to say Defoe is better at that right now) and that exposes him all the more. Apart from the Pool game where he looked decent, he was a major cog in our progress against Olympiacos where he was IMO the poorest player in the team amongst all those small boys.

I think its about time Arsene cuts his losses and focus on Wilshere who is our own product, I believe Theo will go the way of Francis Jeffers and Jose Reyes while Wilshere toes the path of Henry and RVP.

Meeeh, a draw to Burnley and the forum is gone to pieces again Almost glad I couldn't watch this match at home as yesterday was the office Christmas do and I'd had my eyes on this petite carribean girl. I drew blanks yesterday even though I got the number anyway but I'm not sure I would have been any good after one too many pints of the devil's brew. Anyways, my senses are still too dulled by the drink to decide if I'm angry about yesterday's result or not, so saturday had better arrive soon (or is it sunday) and who are we playing again? Hull or Hill? I'm sorry its just not my day, hell of a day its going to be at work today.

mukina2:
even if silvestre scores double hatricks on against spuds, the scumtwats of cheksli i still wont like him,

I get what you mean Muki, and I'm sure its got everything to do with that massive forehead? 

@Slim
All Diaby needed was a good run in the side and he is now beginning to look like the genuine article.

Sauron is a crackpot and Dayokanu is a die hard Nazi sympathiser but they make the forum tick for me along with my pals on the Arsenal thread which I'm actually quite new to. I don't know what criteria is being applied here but my favorite person on the sports forum is Edoyad not only because we both support The Arsenal but because his sense of humor is next to none.

I always took Silvestre for the Trojan horse Fergie planted in Arsenal until that first half against citey and then that howler while blocking SWP in the second half of the same match. My mind is not totally made up yet but until then, I'll still remain wary of greek gifts.

Mekana:
Buddy one cannot figuratively be more catholic than the pope. Angie is claiming to be more British and English than most white born English peeps i have interacted with. It sounds anachronistic that in other to prove this point, she jettisons and strikes an artificial dichotomy btwn her parental nationality and her British nationality. This is completely absurd. I as an American born Nigerian, have lived in both countries and come to acknowledge that inspite of my dual citizenship, i am more nigerian than american. why? because am black and proud too.

Fine for you Mekana, but another person in the same circumstance or slightly different circumstance from yours can arrive at a totally different conclusion like Angiefan.

Siena:
Please, read the original article properly.
The guy in question did NOT hold a British passport, he was NOT a British subject.

My post was not about the original article, it was a response to this post by gshyne.
[Quote]
Having a british passport dont make u british as if you re born outside the UK. Wen u apply for a british visa or passport it is made clear that you have to keep to certain conditions. Fairly recently there was the case of a white bloke deported to canada though he's parents are british for simple reason he had criminal record and he was born in canada.
i ve a feeling there re bits of information missing from the articule though or else the guy could still very much appeal the decision to deport him.[/quote]

[Quote]Can u make clear wat d garbage in my post is? u obviously ve no idea wat u talking about. As long u re born outside the UK u can only apply to be a british citizen u dont become british by right. I was born in Nigeria n wen i applied for my british P d forms stated clearly that the passport/ citizenship will only be valid so long i keep to the conditions stated one of which was criminal offence, association with or support for any terrorist organisation. U talking loads of bullocks wen u say the british embassy destroyed your bro's nigeria pali cos i ve got mine still and d british aint got nothing against dual nationality. . Mohammed Alfayed was refused british nationality despite all his wealth,  Harrods, Fulham FC, Ritz hotel included though he has an ILR. Dont come telling us wat u think or your wat u ve heard from unconfirmed sources. Cos u re given a british pali dont mean u ll be british for ye if u dont keep to your side of the bargain. comprehende?[/Quote]

You are being silly, and I doubt you have a british passport, I challenge you to post any article indicating someone who holds a british passport who has been deported and had his passport revoked due to criminal activity (the only criminal activity I can't verify is Treason for which I've not see anyone been convicted of anyway). It seems you mistake an ILR or FLR for a british passport. Even british passport holders who are jailed abroad are even often advocated to be allowed to serve their jail terms in british prisons and that includes "Nigerian born" britons too as happened with a high profile case  of Samantha Orobator recently.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/jun/03/pregnant-orobator-begins-trial-laos

My younger brother never claimed an ILR because he was born in the UK, my dad was based in the UK and obtained the passport for him first from the UK (the black coloured one), and it was at this point his Nigerian passport was shredded. I'm sure my mum still has the shredded passport somewhere as a memorabilia.  He was then registering annually with the british high commision in Nigeria until he was about travelling out in his late teens and then reapplied to renew his passport as an adult when he got the red/marooned coloured passport.

I am not writing this to encourage any british passport holder to engage in criminal activity but a british passport cannot be revoked on grounds of criminal activity the likes of which is being discussed here, for Treason and Terrorism reasons I can't ascertain because I have no examples to quote, please get your facts right.


Here is what I obtained from the UK Border agency website about conditions for removal of citizenship note the part in bold:

[Quote]
Removal of citizenship obtained fraudulently (Deprivation)

We may take away your British citizenship if we find that you obtained your registration or naturalisation by fraud, giving false information, or concealing facts that would have affected our decision. This is known as deprivation of citizenship.

Reasons for depriving you of citizenship might include if you:

* concealed information that might show you are not of good character, such as convictions overseas;
* obtained indefinite leave to remain in the United Kingdom by claiming to hold a different nationality;
* obtained citizenship as the spouse of a British citizen, but you were not validly married to that person; or
* used false documents to obtain citizenship, or cheated in the Life in the United Kingdom test.

We may also take away your British citizenship if, in our opinion, it would be in the public interest for us to do so and you would not be made stateless as a result of us removing British citizenship.

If you are deprived of citizenship, you stop being a British citizen on the date that a deprivation order is issued. After that you are no longer able to hold a British passport.

Any rights you may have to live in the United Kingdom may also be lost. In serious cases, you may be removed from the United Kingdom.[/quote]If a successful attainment of British citizenship makes you lose your previous citizenship then removing your british citizenship renders you stateless and no country does that to an individual (apart from possibly the knuckleheads at Abuja) and this is why I said in my previous post that I don't know how this applies to people who hold dual citizenship.

edoyad:
Siddon look, you go see something. Diaby and Neves will become like PV and Gilberto, while Song becomes Edu 

anyway, if dem fit step up reach that level then the more the merrier but the kain levels wey Song dey play now dey quite impressive and while Denilson might have the technical ability, he just doesn't have Song's build which helps when the going gets tough. Its not easy to foul Song without it being obvious to the Referee unlike when Lucas Leiva and Fletcher commit all those useless fouls against our smaller midfielders and get away with it.

Diaby too should be able to protect the ball more but it seems he is more lanky than bulky like Song, our MF used to look too lightweigth sometimes last season when we played Cesc, Denilso, Eboue and Walcott. May we never see those days again.

Walahi, I look forward to us playing Manure with Song in the MF again, they just couldnt find a way through at OT and with some more composure on our part we should have won that game.

edoyad:
With Diaby back i feel a certain calm has returned to my worrying heart . I believe (and many others too) that Fab, Neves and Diaby will form our center come January, don't be surprised if Song is looking for a transfer ala Sendo by May.

LAI LAI, god forbid bad thing.

edoyad:
In that case, he Fletcher should add Aston Villa to his to do list. Besides, we now have Fletcher's sugar daddy, Ramsey, in our ranks. Ramsey sure knows how to give good to those Scottish types, don't you Ramsey ?

Honestly Sauron has got a point as much as I hate to admit it, there are some away matches we go to where we need to take our tall guys like Diaby, Traore, Bendtner and Ramsey becos they always foul and try to bully our players. I noticed Kuyt didn't have as much influence on Saturday as he usually had against the likes of Clichy when he came up against Traore who matched him both on the grass and aerially. When we go away to those places Arsene should have a measuring rule at the door of the bus or plane and turn away anyone below 5' 11" height apart from Cesc and Arshavin because the referees won't protect our guys.

Who says we dnt have strength in depth? we have 3 long term injuries in all Attack, MF and Defence, and we've had a revolving carousel of players on medium term injuries and we're still 3rd in the league with a very much winnable game in hand against Bolton. I personally don't care if Arsene doesn't buy in January afterall we don't stockpile players for nothing.

We've already suffered (for a good reason) trophy wise to bring most of these boys through and we've had a few hiccups like everyone and then the incessant chant of buy, buy, buy fills the air, now when everyone has stopped buying is when we want to start buying (even manure didn't spend their 80million jackpot from CR7 sale). Abeg, Arsene knows what he is doing joo, it is left to the lads to fulfil their promise.

I like the fact that Arsene is not as fickle minded as most people are, he has a model and he has stuck to it through thick and thin, if we are going to buy then one of the present players has got to go (actually, I don't mind at present if Eduardo goes though if he doesn't prove himself between now and January) and people should remember that buying does not guarantee you will get a better player or one who will fit into the team. I remember Arsene himself tried so hard to bring Baptista in some seasons ago when he was big at Sevilla, he went off to Madrid, flopped there and then came to Arsenal only a season later on loan only to flop badly and be renamed Craptista.

onipanu:
@ duduspace. My guy no vex, but how is it possible that the consular office destroyed your brother's passport after claiming british nationality Abi your brother join MI5 or MI6 and had to relinquish Nigerian nationality?

Vex no dey, I haven't got a clue why he did that as we were young when this happened sometime in the early 90s but someone told me that in the olden days when yu take up citizenship of another country officially you are basically renouncing your citizenship to your previous one I guess. Most people don't take the trouble to find out what it means to take citizenship of a different country basically because we are mostly lawless people and to be frank it doesn't really matter most of the time until roforofo cases like Onwubiko's come up. Does the Nigerian constitution even permit dual citizenship? 

I doubt if most people know or even care, as Nigerians we are mostly concerned with survival and staying one step ahead of others.

gshyne:
Having a british passport dont make u british as if you re born outside the UK. Wen u apply for a british visa or passport it is made clear that you have to keep to certain conditions. Fairly recently there was the case of a white bloke deported to canada though he's parents are british for simple reason he had criminal record and he was born in canada.
i ve a feeling there re bits of information missing from the articule though or else the guy could still very much appeal the decision to deport him.

The part in bold is so untrue, please clarify facts before posting garbage such as this. It seems some people can't make the clarification between being eligible for citizenship and actually claiming citizenship.

The guy might be eligible for british citizenship on the basis of his parent's nationality while being eligible for Canadian citizenship by his birth place. He might be a canadian passport holder who has never sworn allegiance to HRM. I stand corrected but if anyone who holds a british passport commits a criminal act, he will serve his sentence and then be rehabilitated back into the society after paying his dues as he has nowhere to go except his land of citizenship. I however am not sure how this applies to someone who holds dual citizenship.

I recall that my younger brother's Nigerian passport was shredded by the Consular officer after he claimed british nationality.

eldee:
How will I be able to live with myself knowing there's still one more life I didn't impact??
It's pro-bono, we need to help these guys, they are Nigeria's future leaders

Good attitude eldee, strange what assumptions people make in ignorance. I'm almost sure the unnecesarily emotional lot won't thank you for the information yu've passed across. I really didn't previously know about the residency requirement being enough to represent an adopted country in IAAF competitions but I don't think it works that way for FIFA competitions like the world cup though?

I think IAAF should tighten up the rules though as it does seem odd to have represented a country in an International competition of Olympic status and then be deported from that country as a non-national which is why this particular case is sure to evoke some sympathy for Onwubiko. I know he can't be deported on basis of a criminal conviction though if he's got a valid passport as that basically gives him the rights of a national.

And we are back in it, where are the naysayers now?

It seems the spirit of Shankly will not rise here today, this signals the end of Liverpool as a force in England.

no probs Debo, as long as he doesn't have another OT moment.

The way Arshavin turns against these big defenders is impressive, but what a player Alex Song is, I doubt Essien was this good at 22.

Isn't it about time we took off Denilson for someone like Diaby? he is on a yellow. hmm great minds think alike.

Cristalz:
Another unlucky goal.
Rafa thought the ball was going out so he didn't move. Ball decided to change its mind at the last minute; hit the post and changed direction.

Arshavin looked like he didn't expect it to go in.

See enemy, yu can't even credit good play when you see it, I wonder if Drogba also expected his first goal against us to go in.   Cristals don give ball brain.

now which one should I face, this match or complete my bidding on ebay.

I was annoyed with the lads in the first half becos they didn't play as we typically did but maybe we need to learn how to play like this more. Liverpool players are fagged out in this half after their initial gragra in the first. The last game we played like this where we gave the opponents the initiative was AZ Alkmaar away.

We still got undone on a dead ball situation.  , now maybe the lads will come out and play.

Diaby is already warming up. some effy moments from the MF at the beginning but things seem to have quietened down with Cesc not having his usual influence on proceedings. I think he misses the energy Diaby brings to that MF.

[quote author=kay_pumpin link=topic=362333.msg5100794#msg5100794 date=1260654143]And guess who is wishing other's team well after his team's dismal performance at home against a depleted Everton team:
There must be a God somewhere  [/quote]No mind Nateev, he get plenty sin and he dey cast the first stone.

[quote author=kay_pumpin link=topic=362333.msg5100794#msg5100794 date=1260654143]To what's at hand. . . when was the last we capitalized on other's mishap please?[/quote]No worries, the lads will turn in a great performance tomorrow. I don dey prepare to send my owo idupe thru Western Union and we will win becos Diaby is back. _{runs away before Debosky logs on.}

Everything is working out for us so far this weekend:

1. Chelsea drew to Everton, didn't I tell someone here that Chelsea is never the same without one of Drogba or Essien? 

2. City continue their dismal drawing to less fancied sides while seemingly going all out against the big guns.

3. The most satisfying result of them all with the spuds losing to Wolves at the poo lane of all places. 

At present Manure is a goal down to Villa, if only they go ahead to lose and we win at Anfield tomorrow, chei I go send money home for my folks to do Idupe for Church next week. 

@Dayokanu
You continue to mix up issues, there is a difference between having the best youngsters and producing the best youngsters.

1. I have explained to you previously that there is a rule in the UK that limits the distance yu've got to live from a UK  club's academy while under the age of 16 years to be able to register in a club's academy.(e.g. Beckham signed schoolboy forms with manure when he was 14 because his parents were fanatical manure supporters but he couldn't join them till he clocked 16 so he had to stay at Tottenham till then)

2. A non EU national also cannot come into the UK until they clock 18 and need to have certain number of appearances with their national team to be able to get a permit to come in to the UK.

This is one of the reasons why the UK is allowed to sign players under 18 while all the other clubs on the continent are not allowed.

Now when it comes to producing youngsters, yu've got to define what you mean by developing a youngster or talent spotting , I am of the opinion that any player under 18 is still being developed and most big clubs hardly spot talent anymore.  Talent spotting at present is being done at the grassroot and neighborhood clubs and the small clubs then come in between the ages of 12 and 16  while the bigger clubs come to cherry pick from 14 to 18 depending on how precocious the talent is (this is why Schweinsteiger came to Bayern at 14+ and Cesc to Arsenal at 16+) .

At any of the 2 latter stages, there is still a whole lot of gambling being done on the part of the club taking on the player (apart from the amount that sometimes need to change hands) as the player is still far from a finished product for example, if Cesc was the finished product you now claim him to be then Barcelona would have taken a gamble on his talent and given him the chance to proceed to their first team (Molenbeek took a gamble on Philip Osondu of Nigeria after his U17 display and we all saw how that ended).

It is left to the Coach to determine where and when to play his youth players, Arsene believes in making our youth players punch above their weight, it is not unusual to see an Arsenal team composed largely of Under 17 players taking on a Reserve team of another club full of 25 year olds (at a stage last season, we had our youth players playing against a Tottenham reserve team that was more expensive than the Arsenal first team and giving them a run for their money) so your claim that Cesc did not play in the youth team has no bearing whatsoever.

I do agree with you that a large number of our youngsters are now growing old, but I find it deplorable that you still find time to twist the facts, at present Arsenal has 5 players under 23  years that you would term members of the first team squad (Cesc, Song, Nasri, Theo and Gibbs), last season Denilson started 36 PL games while Nasri started 26 and you find it easy to omit them from the list of Under 23 players in Arsenal's first team when a lot of the players yu mention playing for Leverkusen are playing their first season in the Bundesliga.

I agree with you that Leverkusen also is toeing the path of playing young players (though I haven't got a clue how many more are loaned players like Kroos), I think you should be more worried about Bayern not playing youngsters cos for all we know Kroos might be slipping through your hands already.

Truth be told, I've already explained my statement in the previous post will you now kindly speak for Munich and let a Bremen, Leverkusen or Schalke supporter speak for them while you hold your peace.