₦airaland Forum

davidylan:
you pretty much alluded to that in your statement. It seems when you guys get caught in the web of your own confusion you start nitpicking for "errors".

Speak to the man in the mirror, it is you nitpicking for errors, if I were I would have assumed that your initial statement which I responded to meant that all 3 year olds lie.

davidylan:
you're tripping over ur own feet . . . you acknowledge that kids have no capacity to grasp and understand the concept of lying YET go ahead to claim that they use it to avoid punishment . . . how were they able to wrap their minds around the complex fact that you can lie to escape punishment if they didnt even understand the concept of lying in the first place?

Its just like saying i dont understand the concept of algebra but go ahead to use it to solve quadratic equations anyway.

Are you mentally stable? Or is this just one of your "the end justifies the means" arguments?

Sorry to disappoint you, I am not tripping over my feet it is you rather rolling in your mud. I never said kids have no capacity to understand the concept of lying, all I said was that they might not "fully" grasp or understand the concept. When children start learning maths they usually repeat additions after their teachers and they might not fully understand the concepts involved in addition until much later but still do simple sums because they remember their teacher saying something like 1+1=2

It is obvious to me that I'm at least more mentally stable than you are because you've succeeded in your self delusion that everyone acts exactly the way you do.

davidylan:
Again confusion reigning supreme here.

1. they are not lying BECAUSE THEY WANT TO

2. But they lie anyway BECAUSE THEY WANT TO AVOID PUNISHMENT OF GAIN REWARD.

Do both premises square with each other? Imagine if i said . . . i'm not really running because i want to but because i want to get to my destination faster . . . well i'm still running FOR A REASON ANYWAY AND ITS BECAUSE I WANT TO! If i didnt want to run i'd just sit or walk!

Your analogy doesn't make sense because you are drawing parallels with a matured adult making a decision while we are talking about a developing child.

You continue to speak like an idiot, have you ever heard of autonomic reflexes, when a child puts his hand in fire (without the knowledge of the effect of its heat), does he think of moving it before he does? in other words, is the movement of the arm from the fire an act of the will or just some sort of self preservative instinct at work?

Before you answer me with your typical half-thought out responses, the point I'm making is that you don't have to fully grasp or understand a concept or an idea (note the use of the word fully) in order to use it.

davidylan:
You mean ALL parents lie and a 3 yr old can mentally process that the parent is LYING, understands the concept and then learns how to use it?
All at the age of 3?

Insult me, that's fair . . . but to then shoot urself in the foot with the above . . . pathetic.

And how exactly did you come to this conclusion? where exactly did I use the words "ALL" of course its still the same ole Davidylan with his favorite pastime of twisting people's words.
and yes while children may not fully grasp or understand the concept, they can use it if there is fear of punishment. They are not lying because they want to but in order to avoid punishment or to gain some sort of reward and when they initially do it, they don't know it is wrong until "significant others" points it out

davidylan:
Now to tackle your above questions . . . to claim that "we were not born with a conscience" is FALLACY. Who teaches a 3 yr old to lie? But he wakes up one day and effortlessly tells a lie to get out of trouble . . . what experience taught him to do that?

Did you have to attend classes that taught you that stealing your neighbours goat was wrong? Did you have to visit ethics class to know that stealing meat from the pot was wrong?

My dear, no body is EVER born with a blank slate . . . that is just a flat out LIE you desperately need to force your own opinions into the bible.

Yu never cease to amaze me, just listen to yourself, you still haven't figured out how a 3 year old learns how to lie? what do you think they are doing when they stare at you and study you all all day long?

You make yourself look stupid when you make such posts as this; myself and some others will continue to question your intelligence when you make such posts as this, it does your considerable mental capacity no justice at all.

I would suggest you take a look at Mazaje's postulations in answer to your other questions.

@mikeapollo

It is rather shameful that you cannot discuss issues reasonably, just point out any of my statements that insults you. I have not insulted you in any way, I have only pointed out the idiocy of your disposition.

This was my original post which you joined issues with (just in case you have some memory loss)

[Quote] The only reason he can make such audacious claims is because Nigeria is a developing nation with such a poor health care system. We could have subpeaonad for the release of his medical records while suing him for deception with a motive for material gain.[/quote]If you would take off your religion tinted glasses and look at my post again, you would have noticed that I was only pointing out that it would be impossible to confirm the truth or falsehood (as the case might be) of T.B Joshuas statement.

You might find this a bit hard to understand but not all of us have been hoodwinked by the deceit going round in the name of God and religion as you probably have.

mikeapollo:
duduspace,
The analogy I gave fits your argument, so stop the name calling.

Yur analogy makes no sense at all, private matters and public utterances are entirely different matters.

mikeapollo:
You also dont have the locus standi to demand for the medical records of TB Joshua/his mother!. He does not have any inheritance dispute about his maternal/paternal origin. Who are you to make such absurd demand?!

I have very good reasons and here they are (You can also give me reasons why you are concerned with my paternity when you don't even know my name)

1. Only a gullible idiot (like yourself probably) would beleive unusual stories without requesting further proof
e.g. in cases where people have claimed to heal people afflicted with AIDs, they have usually provided medical evidence of the diagnosis (forgeries or otherwise).

2. Pastor T.B. Joshua is a public figure who stands to gain materially by propagating such unsubstantiated claims about himself.

mikeapollo:
You can either believe his story or ignore it. To demand for medical records is to be talking gibberish.

Wrong, this is the attitude of someone who is mentally lazy a malaise which afflicts most of the Nigerian populace. You actually have 3 choices the third of which I've already pointed out cannot be proven due to our shoddy healthcare system. It is a pity you can't see beyond your nose.

mikeapollo:
If you ask him to provide medical records to prove what he said about his birth(the story was not directed at you anyway), then you too should be ready to provide similar answers to the question I asked you.

1. The story is about "extraordinary/unusual" claims by a public figure and placed in the public domain which don't seem to bother you at all, while your hackles are raised to find out the paternity of someone whose first name you don't even know. Begone from me you deluded fanatic.

mikeapollo:
duduspapce,
If you do not have a pastor or Imam, then I can guess the kind of person you are. And you want a pastor to give provide his medical records to a person like you? To prove what? Your belief or disbelief in a prophet of God does not make any difference to God's anointing in his life.

It is like someone asking you to provide medical records and DNA evidence of you and your dad in order to prove that you are his child, how would you react to that?

You seem to lack quite basic intelligence and you are most likely a fanatic (the foaming in the mouth and teeth gnashing type).

1. This thread is not about me so you can stupidly guess what you want about me, it has no relevance to the discussion.

2. My family records have nothing to do with the public domain but if someone has a locus standi to demand for them (for example if there is an inheritance dispute) then how I feel about it does not matter at all since the burden of proof would lie with me to prove my paternity.

noetic:
I dont even know how to reply u, cos it amazes me as to how u just open ur mouth to chat shit.

did i offer an opinion on the contents of d video?
I only wanted nairaland atheists to view the video and then we can discuss and debate our beliefs and lack of it.
isn't it stupid to criticise me (my opinion) when I haven't even expressed it?

How can you know how to reply when you are totally confused? Do I need to paste everyone of your writings already on this thread? You are really one confused fellow.

noetic:
when u open ur mouth like this, u cannot hide ur lack of intelligence.

Why beleive in bible code and not "Moby [b]D[/b]ick" code? even the Yoruba oracle (opele) has some element of probability theory in it and might predict the future better than the bible. I remember watching a Nigerian soccer match in the past (In the old Ondo state) where a Professor of Yoruba correctly predicted the score line of the Nigeria vs Algeria match (en route to USA 94). You are blabbing rubbish my friend.

If only we lived in a binary world where everything could be broken into a sequence of 1 and 0, I personally beleive it to be a paucity of intellect to "beleive" in something and then assume it to be the only possibility and herein lies the problem of religion.

Reminds me of Verbal aptitude questions in primary school where answers were:

a. Never true
b. Often True but not always true
c. Always true

Then, our answer to the question 2+2 = 4 would most likely be always true even though we usually forgot to make the proviso that you must be working in a base higher than 4. We totally beleved we were right, but in fact we were wrong.

Belief is usually one of these types:

1. The most logical explanation/conclusion you reach about something after some measure of introspection
2. A placeholder explanation/conclusion you reach for want of a better explanation (basically you are stumped)

Note that in both instances, you don't necessarily have to be the one doing all of the thinking.

Type 1 belief is usually good and hardly changes because it usually follows from deep thinking but type 2 belief could be good or bad depending on the circumstances but it is usually bad when people do not own up to the inconsistencies in the belief and it then becomes some sort of mantra with the attendant fanatism. I think most religion adherents fall into Type 2 belief.

The problem isn't with people who beleive per se as there are some who own up to their doubts or make allowances for the possibility of errors in their system/body of belief and fully acknowledge the reality of contradictions whithin their beliefs but the problem is with fanatics who accepts these beliefs as truth and would even kill or maim in instances while acting on their beliefs.

Come and see, "Noetic" wonder

mikeapollo:
duduspace,
Why dont you request for the medical records of your own pastor or imam or babalawo?

1. I don't have any pastor, imam or babalawo.

2. If I had, I would request their medical records if they made such claims.

3. It is wrong to beleive such claims without questioning them or else you would be an easily deceived gullible idiot of which we have many in Nigeria but of whom I hope you are not.

No2Atheism:
1. what is with the name calling, is it not possible for u to make a point without name calling.

2. Is narrowmindedness always a bad thing and broadmindedness always a good thing, please explain.

3. what bar has been raised and how (please explain).

4. I think you are confusing me with some other people you might have encountered.

1. Blatant lie, I called you no name.

2. Yes, if you are half as wise as I think you to be then there is no need for me to explain. My words speak for themselves within the context of what went on before. If you still want to make an argument out of it please proceed and I might be tempted to indulge you.

3. Perhaps you are not as smart as I took you to be but you said:

Fundamentally, there is only two options, either a Creator of Heaven and Earth exists or a Creator of Heaven and Earth does not exists, hence in consequence, either Heaven exists or does not exist.

7. Hence based on this two option above, A Saved True Bible believer is always assured no matter the outcome and thuswould always have nothing to lose no matter the outcome.

8. However based on this same two options, An Atheist would always never be assured of the outcome and thus would always have something to lose based on the fact that there are two possible outcomes. That explains why an atheist is always apprehensive, worried and eager to try to find a way to convince him or herself about the existence or non existence of a Creator.

I was simply pointing out the fallacy of the statement in bold considering that there are a thousand and one Gods out there created by theists such as yourself and your being right with God does not make you right with Allah. I do hope you get my point now.

4. Not at all, I am in no way more confused than you are.

He is only emulating his contemporaries in Nigeria, after all someone could explain away his vanity by pointing out that his cosmetic improvement would attract more people to christ a-la-the contraptions people are coming up with to explain away the RCCG jet debacle.

Truth11:
Italian Earthquake: The families undergoing the tragedy may find grace from God.

An act of God or not should not be the debate. Its better to be reminded that we could be next, we are all mortals, where do I go from here? This could be God's way, or a natural process (also from God). What is not revealed belong's to God, no use debating.

Your writing indicates no thinking at all, why is there no use debating? we all want to know if this "God" is a real entity or not and if he is real we want to know what his attributes are. Some people are quick to tell us he is good and everything nice but if he is killing people in earthquakes or allowing them to die it is either he has psycopathic tendencies or is plain inept and has not control whatsoever on his supposed creation.

Truth11:
Which scientist friend of yours can predict the earthquake or the movement of these plates? Which scientist friend of yours can explain why these plates move and when these plates will move? It is God who decides or has already set a principle in motion.

Whatever the scientists have said so far is only discovery of what God has created. So if you can boast so proudly of the scientists who have only discovered an iota of what God has created, I wish you could behold the beauty and wisdom of the creator himself - Jesus Christ!

blessings,

Sincere premise and questions but very dodgy conclusion.

Chei, confusion break backbone for this bible self, see conference upon conference. Oyinbo people have done us wrong see all our people dey argue on the council of Nicea and Hippo(potamus) when they should be having Ogun, Oya, Amadioha e.t.c. Summits. Technology and development don cheat we africans.

No2Atheism:
5. Fundamentally, there is only two options, either a Creator of Heaven and Earth exists or a Creator of Heaven and Earth does not exists, hence in consequence, either Heaven exists or does not exist.

7. Hence based on this two option above, A Saved True Bible believer is always [b]assured no matter the outcome and thus[b]would always have nothing to lose[/b] no matter the outcome.[/b]

8. However based on this same two options, An Atheist (or any non-believer in the bible) would always never be assured of the outcome and thus would always have something to lose based on the possible outcomes. That explains why an atheist is always apprehensive, worried and eager to try to find a way to convince him or herself about the existence or non existence of a Creator.

I do appreciate your honesty but I must point out to you that in your narrow mindedness, you are blind to the fact that the bar has been raised (by you religionists of course) and belief in the bible no longer covers all your bases. If you would pursue your reasoning to a logical conclusion, then you should be a believer of all religions and not just a christian.

The only reason he can make such audacious claims is because Nigeria is a developing nation with such a poor health care system. We could have subpeaonad for the release of his medical records while suing him for deception with a motive for material gain.

brein:
@duduspace, dont be a sucker, i belive u got many followers who do not believe same with.
It better u waken up and face reality!↲

Yu can choose to beleive what you will, no one has demonstrated beyond reasonable doubt that an after life exists and you are the sucker for beleiving what has not being conclusively proved. What has been conclusively proven however is that your body decomposes when you die. Any other assumption(s) amounts to claiming to know what you know nothing about, but wait a second, that is the life blood of religion isn't it?

Nowhere, you decompose and become part of nature and possibly part of your component elements becomes part of someone and you continue the circle of life again. I advise you watch the first "Lion King" cartoon if you've never done so until now.

@Poster

The answer to your question is so simple and is found in the christian bible Jesus said and I quote "The sabbath was made for man and not man for the sabbath".

Religion itself is man made in order to create an harmonious society, it is rather unfortunate that human diversity has made it a political and economic tool and in the process made it lose most of its usefulness. Morality as we know it is totally relative but it doesnt have to be if it stipulates the basic tenet of care and consideration for others and the society at large which Jesus succintly put as (Love of God and Love of Neighbor).

Understanding that religion itself is false does not mean that it should be discarded, afterall despite its many failings it has at least thrown up as many heroes as villains.

davidylan:
point of correction bawo, you people are too used to slipping away with baseless lies. The aryan culture is not a christian tradition . . . there is no such thing as aryan christian tradition. That SOME (not all) aryans tried to cover themselves with the cloak of the church does not mean the christianity itself sanctioned racism.

I know yu will be quick to deny your brothers (or cousins as the case may be) but the aryan culture that fuelled the KKK based a lot of their beliefs on the bible. You can always claim that they twisted the bible but have your own babblings on this forum not been a twisting of your precious bible as it suits you? You would have been classified as a seed of satan and lynched by your fellow bible punchers for not having blood in the face (can't blush) due to your melanin containing skin just because your precious bible was not specific and literal in its meanings hence the possibility of it being twisted easily by people with their selfish agendas as is still being done by your brethren even as we speak.

OLAADEGBU:
In response to bawomolo's post, you should check the videolink below for the real McCoy, don't bother with semantics that he quoted.  The video below shows what you will not hear from the secular media who are anti-semitic.  Listen to an ex-muslim terrorist whose grandfather was a grand mufti of Jerusalem, who connived with your bishop hitler to gas the Jews.  A picture speaks more than a thousand words, this time around is a moving picture.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yPe8NtArqiE

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ia-3PXbqepI&feature=related

This is yet another perfect example of how religion makes a monkey of people, it is exactly one of the reasons why an atheist or Agnostic might conclude that a theist is foolish.

For all I know, you might be more intelligent or educated than I am but I must point out that you are not utilizing much of any of that which you have.

Bawomolo has quoted Hitler's writings verbatim and all you can come up with to support your point is a youtube video of someone standing on a stage and saying things that mostly cannot be verified in any way, the guy is not even quoting any sources and his authority for his statements is vested in himself alone.

And you wonder why someone could question the intelligence of christians?

Well, I wouldn't expect more from someone who "possibly" beleives in masonic/demonic symbols in the layout of Washington DC while at the same time glorify in the Christian foundations of the United States.

You guys are so full of contradictions that it is a wonder how the whole thing fits together in your minds.

Thanks for keeping us updated anonimi, we pray this turns out to be a landmark ruling.

Unlike some christians on this board, they don't usually point out the speck in other's eyes while neglecting the beam in theirs.
Olaadegbu, any response to bawomolo's post? or (a la Davidylan) do those quotes have to be peer reviewed?
or you would take the easier route of denying your Brother, his most pre-eminence the Bishop Adolf Hitler?

I hereby welcome you to "The League of Extraordinary Gentlemen"

mazaje:
Nice to know that you are doing good, I travelled around a bit myself but am now back in Helsinki.

Abi o, it is all in search of a better life. I've missed reading from you guys' posts. Come to think of it, I even missed David's hypocrisy. What of Bindex, Chrisbenogor and Dios/Martian?

davidylan:
Ask Him.

I see, the Artful Dodger is at work again, I'm supposed to be asking your fictional God a question you have been unable to obtain an answer to. We know yu well Davidylan, please leave room for the other christians to confirm if they accept your old earth view. I wonder what Lady would say.

mazaje:


@ duduspace whats up? long time how have you been doing?

Thanks Mazaje, I have taken some time off my studies to relocate to the UK on a Tier 1 General Migrant visa so I've been quite busy for a while. I'm in Scotland at present but I'm likely to move down south soon.

@Davidylan

Where, when and how in your bible is a pre-adamite race mentioned? please indulge me and quote the relevant passage (literally I mean and without any of your so called spiritual connotations) and pray, why would God have to recreate what already existed again? for example why would God recreate 10,000 years ago crustaceans which existed over 500 million years ago? a case of itchy fingers or idleness?

davidylan:
i knew that long long before nairaland existed so dont bother thanking Huxley.

Apart from that . . . much of your diatribe really missed the mark entirely. It was simply nothing but an "oh yeah a chance to attack the messenger" post. Thanks for the unsolicitated verbiage. We would appreciate you providing us with concrete evidence for evolution rather than repeating the same tired old ad hominems again.

Oh, sorry I didn't know that you knew more than your bible was telling us because your bible never told us of a pre-Adamite race, would you mind filling the gap for us? you might just end up creating yet another religion only problem is that Davidylanyism is a bit of a tongue twister but you'll definitely succeed in getting some idiots to follow you.

FYI, I will not beleive in evolution until I actually witness the process or until it becomes as real as the PC on which I type this post but I will not accept your garbage creation story as a placeholder because of that, it simply doesn't add up to the facts on the ground as even yourself have proved with your article. You creationist only continually shift the goal posts to support your beliefs.

And I don't need to attack you at all, your own posts attack you because they reveal your hypocrisy.

davidylan:
1. He NEVER at any point admitted he was WRONG when he LIED that shrimps could not have been in cambrian rocks, lying that he was merely bluffing even though he had NO scientific proof to back up his claim.

2. Rather than tackle his lies, he proceeds to cover it up by pretending to ASK another question as to why we dont have rabbit fossils in cambrian rocks dating about the same time as the Science AAAS article - now why this is particularly interesting is the fact that those who swear by the gods of science NEVER have answers to their own scientific questions, they prefer to ask us! And yet they claim we are the ignorant ones?

3. Huxley then proceeds to ask me to provide peer-reviewed articles - a thing i have CONSISTENTLY done while all he has done is plagiarise www.talkorigins.com and youtube!!!

Since i bluntly felt it a waste of time to pursue serious intelectual debates with a puny brain who doesnt even know what was found in Cambrian rocks, i decided to ask him to answer his own question (which he has REFUSED to do yet accuses me of being the one caught in lies and deciet)?

What a monumental catastrophe.

You have totally missed the point, Davidylan and you are a perfect example of what your holy book says about too much knowledge making one mad even though in your case it is more like too much biased use of incomplete knowledge making you mad (forgive me the pun)

1. You seem more interested in getting a fact right than understanding the implication of that fact in the Global picture. Huxley does not need to accept that he got a fact wrong, the fact is that he can have his doubts about the legitimacy of any particular research work. Besides what more do you want?the title of this post already indicates that he has considered the possibility that the research work you quoted could be plausible and he doesn't need to own up to anything.

2. What exactly are you saying here? I am sure Huxley would agree that scientific fact usually arise out of questions which lead to hypotheses and theory which are then tested and where did you hear of a God called science? possibly another one you created. Huxley has never said science knows everything afterall science is an ongoing process but is your God an ungoing process? you claim your God knows everything or whatever but you don't know everything so how can you be sure he knows everything or what "everything" is? Huxley never claimed to know everything apart from the fact that the creation story in your bible is utter balderdash.

3. He asked a question of how old you beleive the earth to be which you have not answered and you should be happy that he is asking you for Scientific articles because he probably knows that you will get them somehow even though it is rather unfortunate that you cannot place those findings within the bigger picture of their implications due to your myopic view distorted by your hypocrisy into proving a point at all costs


@Huxley

Thank you for at least making him accept the fact that the earth is more than the 3000 or whatever number of years the creation story of the bible seems to suggest, he will have to come up with his own holy book now (something like Dylan's Bible perhaps) because I'm sure his pastor will drive him away from his church if he reads this (except of course if his pastor is as confused and hypocritical as he is).

I do wonder how he will explain the 7 day creation story in light of his accepting the old earth view of the earth. I'm sure by then he will seek to discredit the same article he has cited now, what a muppet.

sherron:
Good day gentlemen,

I've read all your comments and statements. I must say that this topic is very interesting. I'd like to add my two cents if I may. I do not wish to take away from this post, however, I see things a little differently from some of you. I do agree with the gentleman who said we learn somethings by what we were taught as a child and by seeing for ourselves. Now when we become adults, we do tend to think for ourselves and find out different information and some of these information may be different from what we were taught. For ex. the Cinderella story we believed in as a child. Once we became of age, we realize that this Cinderella story is fake and was designed for children's entertainment only. So it is with other things in life that are not always what it seems.

With this in mind, I think man (meaning people), will make up that which they don't understand. Years ago, when it rained and man had no idea how Rain came, he worshipped the rain as a God. The same thing with the Sun and Fire. When we don't know something, we give it a name and put meaning to it until we understand it better.

In math, when we don't know the answer, we call it x. 7+4=x. Once we find out what x is, we then call it 11. Man doesn't know who or what God is, he's not sure; he calls the unknown GOD. 100 or 200 years from now, man will have a different name for God. My point here is this, man knows not much about who he is or what he is or what his purpose is here on earth. If we preach and believe that God is love and he's merciful and we trully accept this and KNOW it, then and only then would I say that we as human beings really understand this creative force behind us. I can not prove God exist to any one but myself and no one can prove to me that the Bible is the word of a true and honest God. This I will challenge anyone with.

Gentlemen, I'm enjoying the read, so please continue and never mind my two cents. I was only voicing my opinion. I do speak with respect to all religions.

True word my sister, a sincere acknowledgement of the gap in man's knowledge of his origins is the way to go. Scientists are only postulating theories and those theories are consistently being tested and reviewed when they fail. Creationists/Religionists however claim to "know" for certain how we came to be here. Bare faced liars the lot.