₦airaland Forum

JeSoul:
Good question. And I give you the same answer: Faith.

The bible teaches that Faith is all the evidence and proof that a christian needs that God is.

Now, can I prove that my faith is the right faith? NO. So to answer your question there's no way I can definitively show you that 'my' God is the right one. Christianity and the gospel of Jesus was never meant to be proven, but simply believed and accepted by faith. And then God reveals Himself to the person in a unique and intimate way that they become assured of the path that they walk.

JeSoul:
Christianity does not encourage complacency and blind zombie-like belief. Infact as you read thru the NT we see so many instances were we're taught to study, search out, investigate and to use wisdom before believing anything.

Madam Toronto or sorry, is it Boston? flip flopping as usual I see, can you please reconcile the two statements made by you in bold above or don't they seem contradictory to you? If they don't, then you are definitely from Toronto.
Typical of most Theists anyway.

JeSoul:
That's why the pursuit of the knowledge and understanding of God is a very personal journey. I cannot show you, you have to search it out and discover what the truth is for yourself. I hope this answers your question.

I agree with you wholeheartedly on this with a small caveat that when most people discover during the course of their search that God either does not exist or is not interested in being found, they then end up creating their own Gods. I assure you I've searched for him too but he is no where to be found, he is possibly hiding under your bed and that is an idea you wouldn't find so revolting or offensive if you consider the fact that a man whose favorite pastime was peeping tom behaviour was described as a man after his heart in your "Holy book".

[/quote][quote author=JeSoul link=topic=224782.msg3396718#msg3396718 date=1233167200]But you are right in that the vast majority of so-called converts never take the time to really understand what it is they're supposedly converting to.

An apt description of the author.

[quote author=~Lady~ link=topic=225454.msg3402185#msg3402185 date=1233265566]There are energies that cannot be seen and are being tapped by the energy companies to create power for us. Just because it cannot be seen does not mean it doesn't exist. My thoughts cannot be seen but it exists. The only way you can see my thought is when I create something out of it, that's how man came to be. We are the thoughts of God.[/b]Thoughts cannot be calculated.[/quote]Out of curiosity, just where did you come by this knowledge? from the bible of course, of which you have also said

The people did not write it to the world, they wrote it to a certain people with certain traditions and culture and they were to in turn explain it to their descendants. Stop being angry that they didn't write it to the world, [b]most of them thought what they could see was the world. You can't fault them for that, and it certainly isn't enough reason to not listen to them

my point being that if those who wrote such statements had some deficiency in knowledge which you have sincerely pointed out, what assurance can anyone have that the rest of what they wrote is not spurious? and while I do agree that they should be listened to, I see no reason why their writings should be given any iota of credibility when it turns out to be largely self contradictory.

[quote author=~Lady~ link=topic=225454.msg3402185#msg3402185 date=1233265566]Space cannot be seen and neither can time or air, but we are very much aware that they are real. So that point makes no sense.[/quote]You've made no point here Lady, as you have rightly pointed out that we are very much aware that space, time and air are real and anyone who does not beleive in their existence is (in a consensus of opinions a looney).
But pray, what tiny, itsy bitsy bit of evidence is there for the existence of God that will not degenerate into absurdity? I mean, most proofs and logic for his existence end up also disproving it for example the age old infinite regression argument.

Perhaps that quote in the bible should be changed to read thus, "The fools says in his heart that time does not exist"

[quote author=~Lady~ link=topic=225454.msg3402185#msg3402185 date=1233265566]Also there are many ways in which God reveals himself to many people, they are not man made. Just because writings exists does not mean that it must be made up. If so, then scientific facts are also made up.[/quote]Sheesh Lady, we are not going down that route of delusional visions and urban myths are we? How can scientific facts be made up with all the technological advancement you see everyday based on those various principles mankind's knowledge has built up over time?

[quote author=~Lady~ link=topic=225454.msg3402185#msg3402185 date=1233265566]That is why there are misinterpretations here and there, and also why not just anyone can pick up the Bible and read and understand. Even though some people would like to think so, it's not true.[/quote]True Catholic you are Lady, that was the same reasons given for the strict separation between the Laity and the clergy isn't it? only problem was that the so called catholic priests of that time were as confused if not even more confused than the charlartans we have around these days.

Why should God create all men and then make it only possible for some subset of men to be able to understand his message to humanity at large? leaving the remaining people subject to exploitation and intimidation by these "Superior Men". Very soon you'll tell us God created the class structure, well he did anyway if the bible is to be beleived.

If the God you are talking about actually existed, then he is the greatest author of confusion you can have and is deserving of no respect from anyone at all.

[quote author=~Lady~ link=topic=225454.msg3398416#msg3398416 date=1233210105]You must have missed the answer to this in the joke or did you not see that this was one of the questions by the professor. No where does God say he created evil, you'll have to show me seriously.

As for the one who made the statement on God's omnipresent, first do you know what it means? second do you not realise that we can choose to have him absent from us? He is everywhere, but he will not dwell in sin. When you sin, he isn't with you, God is not present within you. God isn't the one that does the sinning, it's us humans that do sin. And because God cannot be with the sinful, he doesn't dwell within us. We have that choice to have him dwell within us or away from us.[/quote]I am not Neo, neither am I Obama 

I was pointing out the fact that most Theists are out to  prove the existence/knowledge of God at all costs (despite the overwhelming evidence that suggests he is mostly a creation/concept of man) and in the process end up being contradictory most of the time.

The joke was seemingly trying to use the scientific method to explain the basic contradiction inherent in affirming that 1. God is good and 2. God is the creator of all things which logically implies that God is not good as like only begets like, you either choose one or the other but theists usually like to eat their cake and have it (usually to muddle up the minds of the more gullible amongst us or to confer a similitude of logic to the not so unreasonable need of some folks like you to have the psychological comfort in beleiving that there is something bigger than them/mankind out there).

At the end of the day, there is not much difference between people who beleive in the existence of Aliens and those who beleive in the existence of God (No surprise then that the likes of Kun's  Living perfect master have tried to combine both beliefs).

whimsical:
For now my greatest challenge is locking out unwanted clients I do use mac filtering but it's so had to do so effectively as the base I use at the moment only supports filtering for 20 clients. So I hide my ssid and use the filter list unwanted access instead of the other way round. So any idea as to how I would achieve a better WAN security will be appreciated.

Your wireless network is grossly insecure and would have been an soiler's playground in a more developed country. It is very important to sort out your access control issues because it could be a potential source of legal liability for your company.

I would suggest you read up the documentation that comes with your radios (both CPEs and your base station) to find out if they support 802.1x authentication on WPA or WPA2(If they are manufactured after 2003, they should but if they don't you might have to convince someone higher up that an upgrade is needed, don't worry if they don't listen just keep praying the company doesn't fall victim of Murphy's law).

If they do then you need to install an AAA (Authentication, Authorization and Accounting Server) of which a good one is the Internet authentication service (IAS) present on every Windows server from Windows NT 4 up to 2003 (haven't checked out 2008 yet) and configure pass through authentication to the IAS server.

What you gain, is the ability to authenticate wireless users with a user name and password unique to each individual and also keep track of connection times, IP address allocation etc (which can be useful forensic data for network misuse investigation) it also transfers liability from your company to the individual users whose responsibility is now to secure the unique authentication information (passwords and usernames) given to them.

Beleive me when I tell you that you need to get rid of any mac filtering, WEP keys e.t.c Your network wouldn't last a day before it is breached if it was close to some Universities or Colleges in a developed country where high school script kiddies are eager to try out the newly released soiling and cracking tools easily accessible on the net.

If the story is indeed true? then your guy is one very smooth talker able to twist the truth to his own purposes as is common with most religious people anyway. His response to the lecturer's questions were those of an anarchist intent on scoring cheap points at all costs.

I like the fact that he did point out that all he had was faith/belief anyway because all the questions he posed to the lecturer are areas of human knowledge that even he was able to show extensive understanding of subjects like optics, thermodynamics and psychiatry/psychology unlike his God who is just as much of a psychological concept as infinity is a mathematical concept of an unquantifiably large or small number, the only difference being that while infinity is known to have no personality at all, this God has been given a lot of attributes which are mostly self contradicting and would be immediately obvious to the sincere observer as creations of men.

Point is that he has only succeeded in helping the lecturer properly define his understanding of the concepts of heat, light e.t.c which were never the points in dispute anyway.

Besides, I have one big problem with his final conclusion on what evil is because according to him Evil is the absence or God but we are also told that God is omnipresent is there anyway to reconcile the two?

ogbronx:
black people have a very serious problem.this guy suggested something and for that you want to hang him.no common front and ideology.we are the first to kill a brother before a foreigner.i really pity the nature of blacks

Please, could you outline in what ways this suggestion benefits Nigeria that makes it an attractive option to pursue? I hope you are not implying that we should accept suggestions only because it comes from a fellow black person/Nigerian.

Chei, confused Nigerians don come again o, let me take you down memory lane some years back to 2005/2006 when a certain embassy in Nigeria decided to stop processing applications from first time travellers from Nigeria within a certain age range; who complained and almost demonstrated in protest? whose government asked that home nations ambassador to reconsider that directive?
If you can answer these questions truthfully, then you will realise why this post is an exercise in futility.

Pastor AIO:
Actually a pastor is someone who cares for people. Strictly speaking, a pastor is a shepherd. But anyone who feeds (materially and spiritually) and cares for a group of people is a pastor. Not every pastor gets up on the podium to preach so saying that a pastor is someone who preaches is a little wrong though I get where you're coming from.

Which kin lawyer you get? If you wan sue me, let me warn you. I get 3 QCs for here wey dey ready to maul anybody that so much as contemplates going toe to toe with me in a court of Law. you have been warned.

Hmmm, I do like the definition of a pastor you've given and it does shed a lot of light on the role of pastors. I now understand why most pastors are given to lying, it is simply cos they understand that most people are afraid to face the truth so in the spirit of caring for them they feed them with lies.
Well, I don't need such care cos I can face the truth that noone knows for certain how this world really came to be or how it will end, what the heck even the biblical apostle paul in one of his more sincere moments did confess to knowing in part.
I'm not scared of your 3QCs, there is always a limit to which you can stretch the truth before it starts to unravel before your very eyes as the christian faith is increasingly discovering these days.

Pastor AIO:
I don't know about shooting o, but I think that it is very good that religious doctrines are being held up to scrutiny. Since many religious people don't do much scrutinizing of their religion I think that the challenges set by the atheists is actually a positive thing.

I love you man (and not in a gay manner), I think we'll get along just fine.

davidylan:
its not a crime to emulate you eh.

So you are a Mr. Follow-follow abi, yu should listen to Fela's song. Besides, you are one very bad disciple as I do no such thing.
Do I now have to put a disclaimer to every one of your posts?

JeSoul:
But oga we are not "men in the streets", dressed in rags and dada and foam coming out the sides of our mouths. We are not pitiful and lost and hopeless. We are fine, happy, functioning citizens of our different countries  _{and please don't bring up the scoundrels and wolves in sheeps clothing choir robes masquerading as men of god in nigeria as your counter attack}

True enough, but you do know that not every deluded person is out in the streets foaming in the mouth don't you? besides some of you folks are actually like that with the huge speakers in every church in Nigeria and people feeding others with lies in the buses e.t.c.

Nice you mention the scoundrels and wolves in sheeps clothing, remember they also claim (rightly or wrongly) that they also beleive in the bible.
Hold on to your beliefs my dear but recognize them for what they are, beliefs that can stand no test of certainty whatsoever.
At the end of the day, you are either creating your own God or accepting another man's creation.

davidylan:
Pretty vague and dishonest answer IMO. I live in a western society too and i can tell you its far easier to be an unbeliever than a genuine born-again christian.

It is your prerogative what your opinion is about the answer, yu can't claim to be inside my head to know what I'm thinking. Besides, I wasn't referring to where I live now I was referring to where I come from but even Ireland where I live now is still officially a catholic state.

You always see only what you want to see David.

JeSoul:
Now a half-baked 'christian' who lives how they want with a deliberate self-inflicted ignorance of Jesus' commandments, that I understand. They know the truth but love sin. But the love-hate-maybe-it'll-be-true people are missing some bolts upstairs

Now we see opinion masquerading as fact, I'm sure your definition of half-baked christian is one who doesn't have the same beliefs you do right?
If I might be bold to ask, could you list what Jesus' commandments are exactly?

JeSoul:
Oga Dudu,
    your statement here no fit stand at all.
They have decreasing faith in the bible YET hold on to it cos they're afraid of the future? An oxymoron at its best. Where did you buy this logic from? Oshodi market?  

Na yu dey look am with Toronto eye, what is so difficult to understand in the statement? are people always logical?
Why do some women (and men too to satisfy the women's lib folks) still cling to cheating boyfriends and lovers even when they are aware of their unfaithfulness?
that is my point exactly, Christianity in itself is largely illogical.

JeSoul:
Wow, see opinion masquerading as fact.
Well this is what you believe and your entitled to whatever rocks your boat brotha. But I ask again since christianity is such a delusion, why don't you just leave us to persist in our hallucinations? we're quite happy to be narrow-minded about the Lordship and Godship of our master Jesus Christ. Infact all of us servants, doctors, scientists, bricklayers, housemaids, senators that dare to believe in Jesus are entranced in a fantasy that we beg not to be awoken from.
Time will soon point out with unmistakable precision and accuracy which lot of us was truly deluded  .

Would you leave a mad man in the streets to persist in his hallucinations? (I almost forgot, they do that a lot in Nigeria or even lynch and kill them when they talk rubbish in their deluded state).

davidylan:
I have no problem with your deductions, i just wonder why if christianity is full of "unverified beliefs", "confusion" and "varying expert analysis" you bother so so much with it.

I will answer your question even though this forum is not about me but since you choose to make it personal I will indulge you in this instance provided you never ask me this question again.
I bother so much about it because I come from a society where it is the mainstream belief and I see a lot of its effects on individuals and the society at large.
Do you get it now or are you too thick headed to get it?
That was an innocent question by the way, so there is no need wearing out your dentures becos of it.

@Bindex

It is refreshing to see that gems do somehow come from the murkiest of cesspools, you don't fit the image of the typical Nigerian but you are definitely the image of what the typical Nigerian should be (if we are to have any modicum of development and peace in that country), I mean well travelled about the country, open minded about religion e.t.c.

I really hope you're able to achieve your dream of moving outside the country to get first hand experience of other cultures for a while after you are through with your NYSC, you do deserve the best Time and chance have to offer you in my opinion.

davidylan:
I have often said . . . being a "christian" is not a term . . . it is a way of life.

christianity is lifestyle of exclusivity unfortunately. these people are confused beyond measure. The bible says NO MAN COMETH TO THE FATHER BUT BY ME.

I agree with you totally on this david, christianity is a way of life which stems from unverified beliefs hence the reason why each one is creating his own God.

I agree with you that these people are confused but I must also say that christianity as a whole is some kind of mad house and you are possibly even more confused than they are, that quotation from the bible could mean so many things things even when taking in its literal English translation how much more when hebrew experts start analyzing all the possible meanings it could have in its original hebrew form.

JeSoul:
yes[u] true [/u] christians sometimes disagree on lesser matters such as speaking in tongues, women pastors etc . . .

BUT

for bedrock and foundation elements of the faith such as
John 3:16 "For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten son, that whosoever believes in Him will not perish but have eternal life" and
"I am the way, the truth, the life, no one comes to the Father except by me."
there is no disagreement here as to what these mean. This is the basic belief for all christians. So when you have someone claiming to believe in Jesus yet they don't believe in what Jesus himself taught . . . this is an oxymoron and this is not a christian. Simple.
Look the way I see it is this: Nobody is being forced or coerced to believe in the bible as it is written. So if you want to call yourself a christian, you must walk by the teachings of the bible.
Now if you want to form your own beliefs, then cease and desist from using the term "christian" cos then you're muddying the waters and misleading others.

So what right did Jesus have to "question" the religious leaders? the bible teaches He is God in the flesh - that's where His right came from. Now if you don't believe Jesus is God, then why be bothered with the bible in the first place? why be bothered with Jesus at all?

Well, maybe they are increasingly losing confidence in the bible and its various contradictions and about turns but still afraid of living in the uncertainty of not knowing what the future holds.

Please note that the bible teaches nothing, rather it is people who make up whatever they want from the bible which is nothing more than an historic account of the emergence of the jewish people (an account whose validity is increasingly being questioned) and the musings of those you could term their philosophers and thinkers. The bible does not teach that Jesus is God in flesh, Jesus and his disciples did that.

@bigrovar and texazzpete

No need chewing each other out, it is possible bigrovar ran an alpha/beta version with some sort of debugging code running the general news out there (even from some anti-MS sites) is that Windows 7 is very resource efficient.
Should be trying it out soon myself.

@Poster

You do realise that a lot of things once termed supernatural have turned out to be natural phenomenon yet to be explained at the time. The helmet disappearance story is a rumor which has never been confirmed and cannot be verified to have occured in anyway.

The supernatural as we know it nowadays is often confirmed only to the realms of delusion and beliefs but if you come up with a verifiable one, then we can better adequately analyze it.

JeSoul:
Indeed it is. But this should come as no suprise to anyone who's ever read the bible.
One problem I do have with the article is in its definition of a christian.
A person is a christian only if they fit the biblical description and definition of one. A person is NOT a christian just becos they say so.

Once you adjust and modify this in the study, the true percentages of "biblical christians" creating their own god will be equal to zero.

Unfortunately, you are not saying much JeSoul as there is no agreed consensus on what some critical part of the bible's teachings and injunctions means if there was, there wouldn't be so much confusion and denominations.

I would even argue with you that Jesus was creating his own God in a way, I mean what right had he to disagree with what the religious leaders of his time interpreted to be the meaning of the Torah?

Culled from http://news.yahoo.com/s/csm/20090114/ts_csm/atheology;_ylt=AnObekVGmjJigUofpgscAkxg.3QA

Most US Christians define own theology
     
Digg Facebook Newsvine del.icio.us Reddit StumbleUpon Technorati Yahoo! Bookmarks Print By Jane Lampman Jane Lampman – Wed Jan 14, 3:00 am ETAmerican individualism has made its imprint on Christianity.

A sizable majority of the country's faithful no longer hew closely to orthodox teachings, and look more to themselves than to churches or denominations to define their religious convictions, according to two recent surveys. More than half of all Christians also believe that some non-Christians can get into heaven.

"Growing numbers of people now serve as their own theologian-in-residence," said George Barna, president of Barna Group, on releasing findings of one of the polls on Jan. 12.

In the Barna survey, 71 percent of American adults say they are more likely to develop their own set of religious beliefs than to accept a defined set of teachings from a particular church. Even among born-again Christians, 61 percent pick and choose from the beliefs of different denominations. For people under the age of 25, the number rises to 82 percent.

Many "cafeteria Christians" go beyond the teachings of Christian denominations to embrace parts of other world religions.

Half of Americans also believe that Christianity is now just one of many faith options people can choose from (44 percent disagree with that perception). Residents of the Northeast and West were more likely than those in the South and Midwest to say Christianity has lost its status as the favored American religion.

Christians expressed a variety of unorthodox beliefs in the poll. Nearly half of those interviewed do not believe in the existence of Satan, one-third believe Jesus sinned while on earth, and two-fifths say they don't have a responsibility to share their faith with others.

The most striking divergence from orthodoxy, however, was first revealed in the 2007 US Religious Landscape Survey by the Pew Forum on Religion & Public Life. That comprehensive survey of 35,000 Americans found a majority of Christians saying that people of other religions can find salvation and eternal life.

The results stirred controversy among some Christian leaders for whom Jesus as the only path to salvation is a paramount teaching. Some questioned whether those surveyed about "other religions" might have been thinking of Christian denominations or traditions – such as Protestants referring to Roman Catholicism – rather than non-Christian faiths.

Pew undertook a follow-up survey, which it released in late December. That poll found 65 percent of American Christians (including 47 percent of Evangelicals) do indeed think that many different religions can lead to eternal life. Among these Christians, 80 percent cited one non-Christian faith as a route to salvation; 61 percent named two or more.

The survey also asked about views on how one obtains eternal life. Among all adults with a religious affiliation, 30 percent say correct beliefs are what counts, 29 percent say salvation depends on one's actions during life, while 10 percent say both are essential. Those who emphasize the impact of actions are more inclined to believe that practitioners of non-Christian faiths can achieve eternal life. Most of those who emphasize beliefs say non-Christian paths do not lead to heaven.

The poll confirms a broad rejection of religious exclusivity. Among all religious adults interviewed, 65 percent say many religions lead to eternal life and only 29 percent say theirs is the one true faith. Sixty-nine percent of all non-Jews say Judaism can lead to eternal life and 52 percent of non-Muslims say that of Islam.

Forty-two percent of religious Americans also say atheists are able to find eternal life.

While some people hail these findings as heartening for American pluralism, others see them as a wake-up call. R. Albert Mohler Jr., president of the Southern Baptist Theological Seminary writes on his blog about biblical Christianity's role in countering such inclusive views and helping people find the true Christian way. Others point to the power of egalitarian American culture.

"It's just part of a 200-year working out of ideas about personal autonomy and equality that are sort of built into the American experience," says Alan Wolfe, director of the Boisi Center for Religion and American Public Life at Boston College. "The notion that someone is going to burn in hell because they have their own beliefs is just not resonant within our larger political ideals."

Interesting read this is, largely explains why the US can cope with its religious diversity.

This is really interesting, I never knew that christians also do "Royal Rumble" and "King of the Ring" as they do in the WWE.

arramyjay:
I have never heard of pastor Olutanmole,what a name.

I think the name is supposed to imply that he is the one who brings light to the earth or something of the sort, as if we all didn't know the sun was responsible for that. Don't mind the joker.

Pastor AIO:
Hey, when did you see me preaching fables. If you are not careful I will sue you for fraudulent libel.

In common usage of the word probable (not the mathematical jargon) when someone says that something is probably the case they mean that it is highly likely. of course where do you draw the line of a likelihood that is high and that which is low.

Anyway, if Carlsberg can get away with being probably the best lager in the world then I suppose they will get away too.

Why are you denying your name now? I beleive that in every possible use of the word (not only in common usage), a pastor is someone who preaches or should I sue you for impersonating a pastor and deceiving us all on the forum?

Probability in any way you use it does introduces an element of uncertainty which of course is why people lie (in attempting to convince others of their point of view for all types of gain yu can think of). If you're implying in any way that these guys should be sanctioned for this message, then all manstream religious figures should be in jail or even in some circumstances be taken out and shot.

Martian:
Did he see cupid, the naked little angel that shoot love arrows.

I wonder if he saw Chronos with his missing testicles that Zeus cut out too.

davidylan:
conscience is the problem. That's why they are forever heckling christians . . . they really arent sure if they are the right path.
If they knew assuredly that God didnt exist they wont even bother with christians at all.

[quote author=A_K_O link=topic=216971.msg3332122#msg3332122 date=1231793522]"There's probably no God "

Why can't they just say it affirmatively? Aren't they sure? [/quote]They are only saying the truth the way it is, it is a fallacy to say for certain that there is no God, if what you mean by God is a sentient being responsible for the creation of the Universe, but whether he does for a fact exist and is the God of the Quran, the Allah of the bible , Buddah, Krishna or any other God you can come up with in the confines of your house is a different matter entirely.
Some peeps stupidly beleive that when people question the existence of God, they are only referring to the God of the bible.

Pastor AIO:
'Probably' suggests to me that a statistical calculation has been made. I wonder what the criteria for this calculation was. What is the probability in percentage terms that they arrived at? Can the advertisers be sued for using wrong facts because of their probability calculations.

Pastor, why don't all the people you preach your fables to sue you for being fraudulent? if you are well conversant with probability theory you would know that a certainty in probability is represented by 1 and an impossibility is represented by 0. Anything which lies between 1 and 0 has a probability which in this case is not given because it is an unknown.

If you are considering suing the advertisers, the burden of proof will lie with you to prove either the impossibility or certainty of God's existence, a feat which both Atheists and Theists alike have been unable to achieve so far. This Advert in reality is not Atheistic but Agnostic in its message.

I remember seeing an advert on TV about him when I was much younger, seems he is claiming to be God descended to earth and had his base somewhere in Ondo State.
Another charlartan out to deceive people again I'm sure.

sammyzacks:
Physical virgins have undefiled bodies and are free from a lot of spiritual problems associated with sex.

A recycled virgin is one that is not a physical virgin but has repented by faith in Jesus and have been forgiven by God. God is able to restore her physical wholeness depending on her faith.

A non-virgin should be a prostitute that has refused to repent. Such a woman will lead you to the grave, run away from her.

You don't need God for this one, I'm sure if yu're ready to drop coins plastic surgeons will be able to come up with a surgically reconstructed hymen and some do actually naturally close up if the woman no longer engages in penetrative sex.

Besides, I don't know what difference it makes anyway the point is that another dick don enter the place and I'm sure she wasn't silent when that was happening. You either live with those images in your head and bear it or just forget about it and go and look for your own virgin while hoping yu are still able to keep your thing up by the time you find one.

[quote author=~Lady~ link=topic=214649.msg3308175#msg3308175 date=1231223254]I am not by any means trying to derail the topic, I just want duduspace to rationalize before typing. He mentioned that religion or believers is one of the main reasons why Nigeria is in the state it is in, and I am asking how so when the US is also very much as religious and not in the state Nigeria is in.
People want to blame religion for anything because it is an easy target.

It baffles me when so called rationalists can't rationalize[/quote]I see hackles are raised for yet another argument m'dear

Is the US really as religious as Nigeria? I seriously doubt that but we can agree to disagree until someone can produce a statistical breakdown of weekly/daily place of worship attendance in comparison to Nigeria. You might also want to check out this report in yahoo about religious beliefs in the US.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/csm/20090114/ts_csm/atheology;_ylt=AnObekVGmjJigUofpgscAkxg.3QA
in summary, I would say that it implies that each person is now creating and defining their own God after serious flaws have appeared in mainstream christianity.

I find this statement very interesting "More than half of all Christians also believe that some non-Christians can get into heaven." as this really can't be true if the God of the bible exists.


Besides, we all see the damage which Dubya's religion rhetorical undertones have done to the world view of the US hence one of the things that made Obama a much preferred choice to the conservative elements in McCain's campaign.

One more thing, I didn't say it was the only reason but it is definitely one of the main reasons, what you have not considered is that an attribute which could be helpful in some instances could in other instances be very harmful. Despite the obvious failings of religion, there wouldn't be much problems if everyone in the whole world was of one religion would there?

The States I know used to be predominantly christian and most of the initial immigrants were mostly persecuted or in some kind of distress where they came from and wouldn't generally want to cause trouble in the safe haven they found. The mass influx of people of other religions has however led to the increasing separation of church and state.

I agree with manmustwac, it is not easy to openly proclaim oneself as an atheist in Nigeria or to even broach the possibility that God does not exist, Bindex, Riff-Raff and Ascony; you guys must be quite courageous and we do need more people like you in Nigeria if the country is to rise from its present greed/religion induced comatose state.

Why not? she is only trying to keep all her bases covered , she might also want to add Buddhism, Krishna, et al in the near future.

She is only erring on the side of caution as opposed to typical Agnostics, the dear soul is simply confirming by her action that she can't really decide which is real out of God and Allah.

I expect to see more of this as people face up to the reality of things and not get brainwashed into a narrow mindset about religion and it is a good thing cos it might help solve some of the problems religion has caused in the world.