₦airaland Forum

See the hypocrisy of christianity on display yet again, this pastor will be telling lies on the pulpit every week but his wife has psychiatric problems which has not been healed by the God he preaches. Reminds me of the time Mrs. Oyedepo had a stroke. He might even be conducting deliverance for other people.
The poor woman should be allowed to go for her treatment, it is unfortunate there are a lot of people with mental health problems in Nigeria but people don't know that they are becos they aren't naked in the streets yet.

JeSoul:
and I do, 100% without any reservations. I believe the bible is a complex book that cannot be understood by human understanding. We need the spirit of God to reveal the difficult and sometimes confusing things in it.

That 100% is not true in anyway, do yu do everything it says? have yu sold all your possessions to follow Jesus? now that I think of it, maybe those guys on Social welfare are the true christians as they generally don't have much possesions. I have never met a 100% christian before.

JeSoul:
and my dear Dudu is[b] God to blame for [/b] the actions of men? Isn't it us who make our surroundings peaceful or war-zones? Don't we have the freewill to do as we please?
God has given the earth to man, it is now up to us to do evil or good with our power. Why do we then turn around and blame God when we do evil?

I am not blamin him for the evil, rather I'm saying he can't be good since he doesn't give all babies born into this world equal opportunity. While some of us are guaranteed our daily bread some are not.

JeSoul:
lol . . . it happens all the time. But temptation will always lose

I hope so, for your sake.

JeSoul:
So how do we differentiate who's wrong and who's right? Well the bible teaches each christian to study and discern (with the help of the holy spirit) to figure it out. So we come back to where I said each man has to search and account for themselves, I cannot confirm or deny for you which way you should go, you find out from God.
We're back to faith sweetie I only 'know' with assurance and confidence becos I've chosen to believe the bible above and before anything else.

Translation: Each man is to search for this non-existent entity called God and when he/she doesn't find him, he should create one to fit in with the Jones's and in your case rather than create your own unique God, you've decided to adopt that which was created by the Jewish people, redefined by Jesus Christ, adapted for non-jews by Apostle Paul, made the religion of the Roman Empire by Emperor Constantine and brought to us by our colonial masters.

@Karmamod

What goes around comes around, what goes up must come down,

aping Alicia.

RichyBlacK:
Did you see where the retard insulted me?

Alagba Richy, e ma binu, e don do. I promise you 72 virgins on earth here if you stop the slugfest with Karma. I never liked the thing anyway, my hard on goes down quick at the first sight of blood.

Rubbish and nonsense on this forum, imagine someone describing Bimbo Akintola as an epitome of Feminine african beauty, that almost made me puke. Thank God the person who made that statement is female cos it really showed that men come from pluto and women from saturn.

Right idea but wrong implementation, can't imagine Miss Virginity getting any large endorsement deals like winners of other beauty contests intended to send men's pulses racing and giving old men heart attacks, the contest should be renamed Mother Theresa or Joan of Arc award and those girls are definitely not serious lookers who will have heads turning in their wake.
Besides, being medically certified as a virgin does not confirm chastity as I have heard of a case of a pregnant virgin with an intact hymen (seems Jesus was always coming to the temple and never entering Jerusalem but some of his sermons penetrated to the deep recesses he never knew they could)

Pennywise:
This behaviour is a recognized pattern on NL. It is unproductive and its a waste of time. I believe the OP had much more useful information to share until he was blackmailed out of this thread.Those laying claim to superior wisdom fail to see that nobody on NL is a toddler waiting to be spoonfed. Jon o jon and tkb, you have done this small community of Nigerians a lot of disservice.

I think not Pennywise, the post smirked of the typical Nigerian bad belle mentality of someone who has lost out in power stakes or someone caught with his hand in the cookie jar pointing out that someone else had a good helping b4 he was found out.

This guy obviously has sympathies for Mary Bassie and feels she has been hard done by despite her loyalty to BankPHB but he has failed to show proof of any calculated attempt to pin some misdeed on her to get her fired. FA might not be clean in this matter but it remains to be seen.

This murk reminds me of the Bunmi Oni issue at Cadbury when executives go into grey areas in trying to have good financial records/performance then turning around to allege the knowledge of the board in their shady dealings when the cat is let out of the bag.

The line between fraud and financial dexterity is very thin and if we have debacles like Maddoff's pyramid in "God's own country", what then do we actually expect in a country steeped in corruption like ours?

As Idi-Amin said "When there is a change in power in Africa, heads must roll", you can adapt that to say "When the 11th commandment is broken in Nigerian financial circles, heads must roll" it is unfortunate it has to be people the poster knows in this instance.

Nevertheless, he is a despicable coward having no honour whatsoever. He is not deserving of still being in the employment of BankPHB.

The twist I heard to the tall tale was that the Nigerian goalkeeper after conceeding so many goals decided to do a Samson on one of the lions coming at him when they kicked the ball only to discover afterwards that he had torn the ball into two.
Different variations of the same Urban legend, but we are quite gullible in Nigeria and this is one of the reasons why stories like animals becoming human and people disappearing after putting on motorcycle helmets are still widely beleived.

@Moderator

What is this doing in the religious forum?

@Poster
I'm only interested in knowin if you have a designer God for sale.

JeSoul:
hehe but you know say na the same bible wey you nor like I go dey preach from

I've never said I didn't like the bible, I just don't beleive it is God speaking and all those balderdash charismatic pastors gyrate over while fibbing people out of their money.

JeSoul:
My dear my daily bread is "guaranteed" becos its in the hands of God. He promised to supply all our needs and in my short life I have not seen that promise fail once.

There's a prayer in the bible that goes like this:
Proverbs 30:8
Keep falsehood and lies far from me;
give me neither poverty nor riches
but give me only my daily bread.

Otherwise, I may have too much and disown you
and say, 'Who is the LORD ?'
Or I may become poor and steal,
and so dishonor the name of my God.

This is and has always been my prayer to God.

good, mine has also been mostly guaranteed during my life time but rather than attribute it to God, I attribute it to Time and chance. If I was born in Somalia or any of the hotspots then it might not be guaranteed whereas if I was born as a member of the Royal family, I would have to watch a documentary to even understand that people could be in such situations where their daily bread is not guaranteed.
If I accept your statement attributing your provision to God then I must say that he is a very evil God to send some babies to peaceful countries and others to trouble spots. Surely, such a God can't be good.

JeSoul:
look at this mischievious boy tell temptation to come and find me by himself

Be careful what you ask for, they have a way of happening.

JeSoul:
awww thank you, gracias, ese gan I did hear that one of the lagos stations were playing one of my other songs few months ago, I forget which one now.

Good, now yu're makin me home sick missin cool fm, rhythm, raypower e.t.c. I do wonder if Prime time is still on. Oh my home, when shall I see my home? very soon I hope.

UNLEASHED:
I pray my Chikala will never know the way to Nairaland! Amen!

You be ostrich wey dey hide head for inside sand, maybe she dey read yur comment now dey laff you.

Funny thing is I mentioned this to someone on the religious forum who was asking if God permits men to marry virgins but I didn't even know it was close to becoming a mainstream surgical procedure.
But sha, this life gets more complicated, it will soon become possible to have a tenth hand virgin self. Just imagine shaggin someone and the whole kini falls apart like Michael Jackson's nose.
That would be too gross.

JeSoul:
lol without a doubt brotha, without a doubt, I will not deny that . . . and who on the face of the planet is not susceptible to temptation? It is by the grace of God almighty that we overcome them.

Impressive, nice to meet a sincere christian for a change. You might actually be more christ like than Pastor Adeboye and if you start a church, I would bring my family there rather than any of those business outfits called churches in Nigeria.

JeSoul:
It may for some folks, but not for moi. Money is not now nor has ever been a motivation for me, long as I have my daily bread I'm straight.

I hope so, the love of money is truly the root of many evils but in reality who doesn't love money? and what if your daily bread isn't really guaranteed?

JeSoul:
Now you're speaking my language brotha. And you neither being pro or anti semitic is the right position! We should aim to be fair and equal to all peoples. Its just too bad many people are falling for the media bias that always seeks to blame Isreal regardless.

Never been on that band wagon, I beleive in self preservation (only the living have tales to tell) the dead only trigger philosophical discussions by people like me and Mad_Max.
The Europeans have fallen into the same sense of false security that preceeded the 2nd world war, they are so stuck up and beleive they have achived a higher state of civillization than other continents (even the US with its technological advancement and economic power is still considered to be full of uncivillized and ignorant folks by them) whereas living among them shows you they are still subject to the basic primal instincts everyone else has.

JeSoul:
I'm sure you don't need directions Dudu, as one NLders signature said once "Don't lead me into temptation, I can find it on my own"

No vex, I was actually trying to drag you along

JeSoul:
Oga I am familiar with Village headmaster . . . but as for specifics and details, I am at a loss but thanks for schooling me . And I'm glad you liked the track, I have a knack for taking classics and giving them an urban twist.

You would remember Chief Zebrudaya from the Elephant blue detergent advert (he was the first nigerian comic I know who regularly butchered the English Language.)
Nice work, hope yu achieve mainstream acceptance and I get to hear your music on radio one of these days.

So sorry I didn't see this earlier Mad_Max

[quote author=Mad_Max link=topic=224782.msg3414645#msg3414645 date=1233577834]As for NDEs being the brain being mischevous, you might be a little surprised to find most researchers don't attribute it to some mysterious part of the brain they don't understand.They understand the process all right; they know the exact chemical processes involved at death, and they have sought to duplicate NDEs and the planes experienced,without success. And those who have experienced it call it 'impossible' and 'unbelievable' but 'real'. On a scale of one to ten, reality-wise,dreams are a 1, our physical senses rated a 5 and [b]the other plane rated a ten![/b]That was how real it was.It's most intriguing[/quote]That stuff in bold there has some wow factor, but I still wouldn't put it past the brain, remember researchers know about thoughts and relate it to electrical activity in the brain but no one can explain exactly how our memory really works as well as how logic is applied in the brain or the processes by which thought occurs. I wonder how anybody could try to duplicate NDEs when no one can even duplicate thought.

[quote author=Mad_Max link=topic=224782.msg3414645#msg3414645 date=1233577834]You know one of the reasons I suspect there's something out there? Human nature itself. We're so corrupt, and there's no real good to be found in us. Anarchy is the natural state of man,in that it allows the beast within him free ad true expression.Why else are war and conflict the background to horrific,inhumane acts?History is written in blood, in tears,in darkness. Civilization would tame the beast,leaving it some masquerade to hide behind, but can you count how many times the true nature of things has stipped away that frail pretext? How may evil men go free, who have chosen to indulge their vilest instincts? A man tears other men from their families, kills children, rapes wives,murders brothers. The news are filled with the base things civilised man to do each other. Isn't there something in us that demands these men render account for their actions? If we think men should give account of themselves,why should God,if indeed he exists and issued men the free will that is so evident,not demand accountability from us? Is our inherent sense of justice perhaps part of the 'image of God'? Or whatever it is that exists and is confronted in those ten-scale reality spirit planes?[/quote]It is food for thought Mad_Max, but I wouldn't rule any possibilities out (which is why I choose to be Agnostic) atimes I define myself as a man of all Religions and yet a man of no religion (an oxymoron isn't it?) but isn't reality itself a bit of an oxymoron? (How does something come out of nothing?). Science definitely hasn't found an answer but religion tells us lies after lies.
The only part of your writing I don't agree with is God demanding accountability from us, no one ever asked to be created but all we hear is that we have a free will but in reality, does a lunatic or genetically defective baby have a free will or does an impoverished person have the same free will as a Rich and contented person? I owe God no accountability (if he exists) he seems to have no control at all over his creation (something even a scientist or an engineer should be ashamed of).

[quote author=Mad_Max link=topic=224782.msg3414645#msg3414645 date=1233577834]Professor Ayer,an Oxford scholar and avowed atheist,flatlined at an hospital. He was in this plane, he said, and was in the presence of a light that somehow made him cognizant of the fact that it ruled the universe. Communication was not by talking,he said. When he was revived four minutes later,he called the experience 'unbelievable'and said he now knew death was not the end. But he didn't say anything about whether he now thought 'God' was real.If atheists agree a spiritual plane is possible, shouldn't it be cause for deeper personal investigation? Don't you have a right to have ALL the facts,so that you may arrive at your own informed conclusions?[/quote]The problem is firstly how to get the facts and then how to be sure that you've gotten all the facts. None of which seems to be possible in a life time. I try to operate by a simple principle, "Do as you would be done by" and if I die and do end up standing before God I would simply tell him he never showed me who he was and that I tried to live my life as best as I could in sharing the earth with my fellow man (if he allows me to speak that is cos most of the religions have him throwing you into a quite uncomfortable environment if you don't beleive in the God they preach).
The spiritual plane is a distinct possibility but until it becomes a clear and present existence (to me), I see no reason to bother with it.

[quote author=~Lady~ link=topic=225454.msg3432129#msg3432129 date=1233880877]Dude it is a fact, that the Bible consists of the Old Testament and the New Testament. It is a fact that the Old Testament contains prophecies about the salvation of the world (the New Testament). It is a fact that the Old Testament contains information about the legal system of the Jewish people. It is a fact that there were only 10 laws that were oversimplified into 600andsomething laws.
It is not an assumption, it is a fact. This isn't about belief, this is what any historian or researcher or anyone who combs carefully through the Bible will see. Geez this is what you said too.[/quote]I was referring to this assertion. "Now buried in the Old Testament are all of mankind's salvation", because it mostly focused on the Jewish people and how they were the chosen ones and all that blah blah.

[quote author=~Lady~ link=topic=225454.msg3432129#msg3432129 date=1233880877]True, there are those clergy who abuse their power. The office is to serve the laity not abuse them, fortunately there are Catholic laity like myself, who will be quick to remind them that they are servants and not gods. You'll be amazed how many Catholics do that, especially after the sex scandals, we took control after that.
I do thank God for my Priest though. And I pray for him, and do pray for laborers in the field, no one can appoint themselves, they have to be chosen by God, unfortunately few are not heeding that call.
God help us all.[/quote]Herein lies one of the problems with the imaginary God, inconsistency. How exactly does God choose people? and why should anyone beleive that someone is chosen by God? Mostly mass delusion and other charismatic stuff.

[quote author=~Lady~ link=topic=225454.msg3432129#msg3432129 date=1233880877]Lol, you have quite an imagination. The garden of eden isn't an actual physical place, but a state of mind or spirituality if you wish to call it that. The forbidden fruit is knowledge, it is not an apple or mango or orange, I am trying to see the best way of explaining it, so bear with me. Ok I'll try using the devil's words to explain it (lol).
The devil talking to the woman tells her that if she eats of the tree she will have knowledge like gods, knowledge of what is good and what is bad. The woman wanting to eat the fruit desired wisdom, this fruit was going to give her wisdom, and she wanted it. Immediately they ate it their eyes became open and then they realised they were naked, they could now tell wrong from right, and they were no longer pure as they were made to be. They no longer trusted God as they were created to do.
When God came to converse with them they hid and God asked them why they were hiding, and they told him and he asked them how they knew, everything points to the knowledge of them, knowledge, knowledge, knowledge. Unfortunately they already had perfect knowledge, what they thought would be knowledge ended up being destruction, instead of knowledge they gained pain and death. So the wisdom they were looking for wasn't actually wisdom it was foolishness and they didn't know it until they got it.[/quote]Okay, that eliminates God directing the first Indecency flick but he still holds the distinction of starting up the first nudist resort anyway (can't get over the idea of Adam and Eve frolickin around in the garden in their birthday suits). I know about this knowledge angle but in reality what is wrong in having knowledge that you are naked? the closest I can come to understanding the state Adam and Eve were before eating the forbidden fruit is lunacy (being naked and being totally unaware of it or being naked in public and not caring a hoot about it) anyways, I guess one can reach such a state after spending some time in a nudist camp or on the Big Brother show.
Besides, how can one make a decision between two choices without already having "knowledge" of the two choices? or can we then liken Adam and Eve's choice to chance?

[quote author=~Lady~ link=topic=225454.msg3432129#msg3432129 date=1233880877]And sex is not a bad thing, infact it is very good. It is one of the most beautiful gifts we have, imagine being able to give life, and to bring life into th world, I mean that is just beyond great. Do you know how precious that is?
The problem is that it is abused, it is a beautiful gift that has been tainted. It has become pornography, masturbation, homosexual acts, pedophilia, prostitution, and fornication.
It is a beautiful gift that should be shared with one person, how can you give the same gift to plenty of people? It is no longer a gift, it no longer has any worth.
So don't believe all those people that say sex is bad, it is actually good, and it is beautiful, beauty shouldn't be abused.[/quote]I know that sex is definitely a good thing, (anything that gives people such amounts of pleasure surely can't be wrong), the other aspects of sex such as pornography, masturbation e.t.c you obviously have some distaste for surely aren't all bad too (once you get over the intial akwardness that is). I'm not likely to be jumping on the homosexual bandwagon anytime soon but if it makes some blokes feel happy, it surely can't be all wrong only problem is that I now have to worry about getting raped as a man (WTF is the world coming to?)

[quote author=~Lady~ link=topic=225454.msg3432129#msg3432129 date=1233880877]Lol, he didn't make us stubborn o, we chose to be stubborn. We can use our free will to do good u know. You can do good for the rest of your life, free will isn't exercised because we do bad. Free will is exercised in a decision making process, a person can do good all his life and that would be free will.[/quote]I agree, stubborness can be a good or a bad thing and depends on individual perception but the existence of free will makes stubborness a possibility. You can't be stubborn without a free will can you?

[quote author=~Lady~ link=topic=225454.msg3432129#msg3432129 date=1233880877]Ah no o, me i dey suffer, but I don't work as much, so i enjoy life more. I am still a student. I don't believe in watching calories, I believe in eating amala with okro ad stew all day and night. Seriously, I just make it to the gym every morning, I am not one of those girls who desire to be skinny, I choose to be healthy, and toned up. I do admit I am not as toned as I used to be, after my accident I couldn't do as much as I used to so my body pretty much isn't the same, but I am getting there again. Don't worry they figure 8 is still there, it just needs some toning that's all. But who cares my baby loves me this way, and I love myself, and my mama loves me.[/quote]Eh ya, never knew yu had an accident, but its good to see yu're still waxing strong despite that (did yu have a NDE?) and also nice too that you have an healthy self image (unlike all these oyibo girls with their bulimia and anorexia Nervosa) stupid idiots see Posh Spice as the quintessential woman where better women (wey carry "eru" dey).
I can see there are good Afro shops in your vicinity too since yu can continue eating Amala and ewedu all day, don't really like Amala much but I do miss my Iyan (pounded yam) like anything.

Glad to know that yu're not annoyed and I do like that you support your reasons with statistics. Those statistics are interesting indeed but you have not indicated the controls used in the study(ies) that generated those figures.

For example taking a look at this quote,
[Quote]
To understand the significant relationship between the rate of crime in a community and family background, one need only look at the evidence. For example, Robert Sampson, professor of sociology at the University of Chicago, found that the divorce rate predicted the rate of robbery in any given area, regardless of economic and racial composition. Sampson studied 171 U.S. cities with populations of more than 100,000. In these communities, he found that the lower the rates of divorce, the higher the formal and informal social controls (such as the supervision of children) and the lower the crime rate.[/quote]The first statement might be true for all I know but a closer examination of the second statement points out where the problem actually lies showing distinctly why divorce in itself is not the problem. Good premise but wrong conclusion or what do you think? To further reinforce my point, Dr Benjamin Carson (of Gifted hands fame) was brought up by a single mother showing that divorce is not the problem rather it is the lack of children supervision by parents.

As to your statement about marriage being for the matured, what fair method can you come up with for ascertaining maturity? no offense meant, but do you realise that even yourself will be considered immature in some other people's estimation?

I only pointed out the issue of physical abuse as an example of why divorce should be permitted but there are a thousand and one reasons why it should be funny thing is that it was even permitted in the bible and Quran as well as other religious books (I know of) though of course, they mostly tilted towards favouring the male side due to the economic and societal realities of those times. By the way, why do you have a problem with people divorcing in order to have a better sexual life? I would rather have that than have a husband beheading an unfaithful wife or bathing her in acid or a wife poisoning her husband so that she can remarry after his death.

Divorce is simply one of the many reminders we have that human beings are not perfect.

princekevo:
Wht a contradictory statement? You jst asked a question wht is my business of wht other though with lives and you go down to ask "how can a woman who is being beaten everyday not go for a divorce, Forgetting that it takes only takes men who does not think of other people's feelling or wht people think of him to panel beat his wife, Check a man who panel beats his wife well you might discover he must have grown up from a broken home where he never witness sweet and cordial relationship that exist between father and mother, Point of correction i don't interfere in people's life or wht they do with their life, but i still think wht you call the free will of individuals can be call to order when it turns to constitute public nuisance, That is exactly why such a question was raised up here, ,

Please don't be annoyed when I say that you aren't thinking much.

Firstly, there is a big difference between what you do with your life and what others do with your life. I have no problem with someone who self flagellates (beats his or herself) but someone who is beaten by another I have a problem with (as such scenarios usually lead to untimely deaths e.t.c and is also a public nuisance as you've said)

Secondly, there are many reasons that may lead to a man beating his wife but your analysis of broken home is totally wrong, the type of broken home that affects children in the way you've suggested is that in which the woman initially refuses to leave despite physical abuse from her husband, there is basically not much difference between a woman who is divorced and a widow and FYI two of my best friends were brought up by mothers who never remarried after losing their husbands and they are the finest examples of Gentlemen I could ever think of.

I quite agree with you that the exercise of free will should not be in a manner as to constitute a public nuisance but I fail to see how divorce equates to a public nuisance while I am well aware of the high possibility of public nuisances inherent in a marriage of strange bedfellows which is better averted by a divorce.

princekevo:
Believe it or leave it marriage is never, has never been and will never be a cloth that u can jst wear anytime and remove when you think it's no more good for you, If marriage was seen as thing of test and run i think they wouldn't be tht word courtship, Those who are wiser than us forsaw all these about marriage and adviced to go on courtship b4 marriage, But wht do we see today?People rush into marriage and rush out when they think they its no more working out as they thought, Ok Lets forget about seeing divorce in a religious way, Wht about the effects to our society today? Have you ever tried to find out?

You are aptly illustrating the problem with most people whose reason for holding a particular opinion is wholly religious, it is this same line of thought that shapes the pro-life and pro-choice debate.

No one is pushing for all marriages to end in divorce, my position is simply that it might be the best choice in some instances or even unavoidable in other instances.

You also cannot show in anyway that having courtship before marriage solves the problem (in all circumstances) there are many examples of those who went through courtship and still divorced as well as those who did not and never got divorced.

As to its effects on society, I would say that it has no effect whatsoever on society at large but it has quite some effect on most of the children who are from such marriages (mostly because they see themselves as different from other children who have whole families) also they might miss out on certain aspects of gender conditioning which having a parent of each gender would have enabled them have.

princekevo:
Please wht an answer do u expect for such a simple question "why do people get married", lol

You don't really have to answer all questions (since some are rhetorical such as this one) but a simple answer I could think of is this, "Because they want to".

nuzo:
Osun and environs. One of the environs is ekiti (den of assassins).
Back to topic: Violence Erupts In Ekiti Again

So you graze reach our side? and yu still get liver to come dey bad mouth us here? That our grass wey you chew go purge you well well.

Who are these "omo ko ni iran" people bad mouthing my state? dem tell yu say na the professors dey riot?
@Sweet T, yu seem to have something against Ekiti people abi an Ekiti person jilted you in the past? where are you from by the way? let me guess, is it Ogun State?

@Nuzo is obviously misguided having spent too much of his time in the company of goats, (show me your companions, and all that blah blah), he is also peddling falsehood abi who hasn't heard of Ife-Modakeke crisis (quintessential example of genocide in Nigeria) or the Oyinlola/Aregbesola show in Osun state.

JESUS ONLY ALLOW DIVORCE, IF DOING SO WILL STOP FORNICATION. THAT IS IF THE WOMAN OR MAN YOU MARRY IS NOT YOUR RIGHTFUL HUSBAND OR WIFE. marriage takes place at virginity in God's sight. So let's say your wife was deflowered by someone else, and you thought she merely sinned, you are dead wrong because you are committing fornication with another man's wife. she is not yours, but belong to the man who deflowered her. so Jesus allow separation only in this case to stop the fornication, you are committing with she who is not really your wife. see what Jesus told the Samaritan woman,

This is sick and very dumb, so a virgin who was raped also belongs to the rapist abi? or what exactly are you saying?

princekevo:
You statement is jst one of the major reasons people divorce, sometime human seems to abuse that free will giving by nature in making harse and wrong decision,

Harsh and wrong in your view, what business is it of yours what others do with their lives? True enough some divorces may be wrong but I can assure you some are totally right or how can you tell me that a woman who is being panel beaten everyday should not divorce the abusive husband? some of those who stupidly followed your mantra of marriage at all costs ended up in early graves.

princekevo:
Becoz you parents got married that is why u were u born,

You seem to have a very simplistic view to life, he was born because his parents had sex and not because they got married except if you are saying dogs and goats get married too.

There is no single reason, but it all boils down to the fact that human nature is complex and we mostly have free wills to make our decisions.

JeSoul:
my dear Dudu, you don't know me at all brotha I'm fervent about God and the bible, I just don't believe in stuffing and screaming and shoving that 'fervence' down the throats of others who may believe otherwise. I allow them to make up their own minds. But don't mistake me for a fence dweller brotha there is no mountain, no valley, no trial, no temptation, no handsome romeo who can shake my belief in God and Jesus Christ.

I agree with you about the mountain, valley and trial (tribulations generally push people towards religion) but I disagree about the handsome romeo, the fact that you qualified the term Romeo shows yur heart is susceptible to temptation in that regards (why not just romeo or even ugly romeo?), I'm also of the opinion that sufficient wads of the greenback may also do the trick (not callin you a gold digger but then who doesn't want a little more of the comfort money can bring?) remember, you can always rationalize things by remembering to pay your tithe.

JeSoul:
Art thou anti-semite? Isreal is far from "foolhardiness", if you shoot at me, I will defend myself and shoot you back. There is no country on the planet who will not do what Isreal did.

I'm definitely not anti-semitic neither am I pro-semitic (that chosen ones attitude can get very annoying and often puts the jews in trouble) but I'm actually with them on this and I was referring to the foolhardiness of the islamic loonies. Don't mind the hypocrite europeans and their peace at all costs mantra, I wonder if France would keep quiet without any millitary action if anyone was lobbing rockets into Paris.

JeSoul:
lol . . . you're funny. And NL is very far from "PG-13" just stray outside the religion section . . . and which one be Alias 4:30?

On the whole Nairaland is still quite a benign site as it has no hardcore section (I've scoured and havent found one anyway) but if you could direct me would much appreciate

You don't know Alias 4:30? the one and only Chief Zebrudaya of Village headmaster fame (one of the earliest comics in Nigeria) seems you didn't grow up much in Nigeria?
Listened to your track (is that really you leading on the track?) and it was cool (had a lot of Nigerian flava) but the composition wasn't totally original (also helps me understand why you are sold on this religion thing )

JeSoul:
lol yeah some religious ppl can put forth 'contradictory statements' . . . no more than our non-religious ppl themselves put forth

Nice way to dance out of it, "contradictory position" is different from "contradictory statements" but I can see from your previous post that you are not a fanatic per se, you are very much enroute to become an agnostic when you allow yourself to question your "belief" and realise that it does not necessarily lead to a loss of morality or your firm psychological stability, verily verily I say unto you,  you shall soon break out of the matrix of religion.

JeSoul:
Tussles are not my thing boy
& Hamas is and has always been deluded let them try firing rockets at Isreali school buses and hospitals again . . . I don't mind coming outta recess

Your recess is almost over, they have already started and it remains to be seen how long Israel will suffer their foolhardiness.

JeSoul:
How you take know wetin be the rock and wetin be the hard place? lol now the interesting question should be what your 'vivid imagination' came up with in the first place, right? I already know you're mischevious

You are now the one being mischevious, don't you know Nairaland is rated PG-13? or you want Seun to descend on me? All I know is that whether na "hard place" abi na "hard thing" the difference is the same (a la Alias 4:30)

bindex:
@Kola oloye

Here is the rest of the verse

Mat 24:15 "So when you see standing in the holy place 'the abomination that causes desolation,' [fn] spoken of through the prophet Daniel-let the reader understand-


Mat 24:16 then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains.


Mat 24:17 Let no one on the roof of his house go down to take anything out of the house.


Mat 24:18 Let no one in the field go back to get his cloak.


Mat 24:19 How dreadful it will be in those days for pregnant women and nursing mothers!


Mat 24:20 Pray that your flight will not take place in winter or on the Sabbath.


Mat 24:21 For then there will be great distress, unequaled from the beginning of the world until now-and never to be equaled again.


Mat 24:22 If those days had not been cut short, no one would survive, but for the sake of the elect those days will be shortened.


Mat 24:23 At that time if anyone says to you, 'Look, here is the Christ!' or, 'There he is!' do not believe it.


Mat 24:24 For false Christs and false prophets will appear and perform great signs and miracles to deceive even the elect-if that were possible.


Mat 24:25 See, I have told you ahead of time.


Mat 24:26 "So if anyone tells you, 'There he is, out in the desert,' do not go out; or, 'Here he is, in the inner rooms,' do not believe it.


Mat 24:27 For as lightning that comes from the east is visible even in the west, so will be the coming of the Son of Man.


Mat 24:28 Wherever there is a carcass, there the vultures will gather.


Mat 24:29 "Immediately after the distress of those days " 'the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from the sky, and the heavenly bodies will be shaken.' [fn]


Mat 24:30 "At that time the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky, and all the nations of the earth will mourn. They will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of the sky, with power and great glory.


Mat 24:31 And he will send his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other.


Mat 24:32 "Now learn this lesson from the fig tree: As soon as its twigs get tender and its leaves come out, you know that summer is near.


Mat 24:33 Even so, when you see all these things, you know that it [fn]is near, right at the door.


Mat 24:34 I tell you the truth, this generation will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened.

It seems that Jesus cleary does not know what he was saying. There are so many places where Jesus particularly told people that they will see him come from the clouds in his kingdom in other verses and those predictions are all a giant Fail. People always forget why the bible was written and what the authors had in mind, most of them taught that the legend that is Jesus was going to come during their life time or generation that was why they included all those lines and predictions.

Sheesh, why did he have to say all that much just to tell us that he is coming back? If he was really serious, all he need to say was "I'll be back"

[quote author=~Lady~ link=topic=225454.msg3403118#msg3403118 date=1233292545]Now there are two parts of the Bible, there's the Old Testament which is the actual historical account of the Jewish people. It records their interaction with God and their laws and their mistakes as well as prophecies and all that. Now buried in the Old Testament are all of mankind's salvation (the jews don't see it that way though even though it is explicitly expressed), those are what are called the prophecies. The New Testament is the accomplishment of those prophecies located in the Old Testament. But majority of the Old Testament is the historical account of the Jewish people and that's not meant for all people. But our salvation is also buried in there so we won't get rid of it, the New Testament is meant for all people. That's why you see the change from all these strict dietary laws and jewish culture and customs to acceptance of all people and their cultures. Originally that is how it was always supposed to be, but because of the stubbornness of man (Genesis 3), they restricted the salvation to just the Israelites when it was not meant to be so.

They misinterpreted the 10 Commandments and that's how they ended up with 613 or so laws, it wasn't meant to be so. It was very simple, they made it complicated. God permitted them to do certain things, because they needed to fall on their faces and learn hard lessons just like the rest of us, they were a stubborn people.[/quote]You are sounding very authoritative with your assertions but your basic premise for these assertions is belief and not fact and that is the issue with them, it is also unfortunate that the line between belief and fanatism is a very thin one.

[quote author=~Lady~ link=topic=225454.msg3403118#msg3403118 date=1233292545]Now as for it being the Word of God. It is our belief that we can't do anything without God. Even me writing this is not by my grace, but by God's grace. So even though it is written by men, it contains information that we can all learn from. It is our belief that it is by the inspiration of the Holy Spirit that these men put these stories or narratives into writing. Just enough was written down, everything wasn't written down or accepted as inpsired, but exactly what was needed was put down. That's why we call it the Word of God. Not that he actually wrote it or actually spoke those exact words, but just for the mere fact that these writers were inspired by God himself to write these things down, we call it the Word of God.[/quote]Belief is fine if not fanatical, but leave that room for the possibility of it being untrue (wholly or in part). I will still allow my kids to read the bible and bring them up on bible stories (would even allow them to go to church with the wifey who will be a christian) it is good for building up their characters but as they grow older we will sit together as a family and think things through.

quote author=~Lady~ link=topic=225454.msg3403118#msg3403118 date=1233292545]

You are right that the Church in the old days did not encourage the members to read the Bible, but the part about the priests are supposed to be the only ones to be able to understand it, is your own personal opinion. That was never by the Church. You deduced that from the fact that they never encouraged it. However, the Bible was read everyday, so it wasn't like the members never heard the scriptures. The same way it was read then, it is read now. I learnt more about the Bible by attending mass, than I did reading it when I was a protestant. So it wasn't like the people were unaware of what the Bible contained, infact the whole year they read the Bible. The readings at mass are arranged that by the time we go through the liturgical year we've gone through the whole Bible. So if you attend mass as you should, you would have read the entire Bible by the end of the liturgical year, and then start all over again. So the Bible wasn't foreign to them. Also keep in mind that it was very expensive to own a Bible, only the extrememly rich could as we didn't have the printing press as we have today. The Church was more concerned with making sure that these people knew their beliefs and that they were living it, we are actually working on our salvation, I guess that's why we don't have mega churches with mega stereos that disturb civilisation and we don't jump up in molue and start calling everyone a sinner or start threads on nairaland bashing everyone for not believing what we believe. We think the way we live our lives should be preaching. Actions do speak louder than words even on the internet, don't you think.

[/quote]Hmmm, sorry I made that wild accusation (possibly a relic of my past pentecostal affiliations), you did give a genuine enough explanation of why the early catholic church appeared not to encourage the reading of the bible by the laity though I must say that as a result, it must have given quite some power to the church clergy to control other people. Some major power those guys had, they must have actually felt like God most times as they even knew the innermost secrets of people's minds and knew the gory details of what was going on with their church members very easy to become tyrannical with such power don't you think?

[quote author=~Lady~ link=topic=225454.msg3403118#msg3403118 date=1233292545]You'll be amazed, there really is only one meaning, and it has nothing to do with sex or fruit. And there is no garden of eden, it will never be located. These people were good with symbols you know. But as you say we'll leave it.

I would like to hear your view of what the forbidden fruit in the garden meant, though I doubt if it was completely symbolic cos of the reference to the Euphrates river which implied some sort of physical location. The sex angle is quite plausible with all the nudity and stuff, seems God ended up directing the first Indecency flick or started up the first nudist resort.

[quote author=~Lady~ link=topic=225454.msg3403118#msg3403118 date=1233292545]That's how the world was supposed to be in the first place but Genesis 3 happened, everything was fine until Genesis 3. Humph man, have to go an ruin everything. I could be sipping mojitos and margaritas in the carribean by now not worrying about a thing. geez.[/quote]Wouldn't we all, rather than having to watch all those bombs falling in Gaza or some looneys blowing themselves up with a lot of bystanders all in the name of an imaginary entity no one has ever seen.
Man usually messes up everything anyway and (according to you) God did make us stubborn when he gave us a free will, what is the purpose of giving a free will if it is not exercised?


[quote author=~Lady~ link=topic=225454.msg3403118#msg3403118 date=1233292545]Hahahaha ROTFLMBAO AGAIN!!!!
DUDE THERE IS NO GARDEN!!!
Ok duduspace, bindex, everyone, I am off for a vacay, so won't post until I get back. I'll try to though. Smooches.[/quote]Babe, yu must be living the life taking a vacay in the midst of all these job redundancies. Take it easy though and watch your calories, don't want that exquisite figure 8 balloon out into a figure 30.

Who are these animals in human skin giving my proud state such a bad name? what really is the problem here?

Sounds like something from "The Simpsons" pray, is Davidylan Homer's dumber brother?

JeSoul:
I see someone is still carrying some saltiness from the previous thread huh? I think Tasma and Bindex got the gist of the statements I made, so it seems to me Dudu is up to mischief on this one. You're looking for a tussle and Boston is not going to give you one

Yup, if only you could see the glint in my eye when I was typing that but I'm sure you do see the contradictory position religion puts people.

But why don't you want to give me a tussle? all my favorite spitfires have suddenly gone coy on me while I was away for exams (even Lady is now more ladylike than any member of the royal family), is it because you've finally gotten out of that F-16 of yours (mind you, Hamas is declaring victory and your recess might be short lived).

Haba, what is this stuff about you being between a rock and a hard place? at least try to get on a bed first before doing the wild thing, don't want you cracking any vertebrae. I know most of my friends are of the opinion that I have a vivid imagination but the visions that signature of yours conjure up in my mind do no justice to my perception of you.

@Mad max,

I guess we all (theists and atheists alike) agree that there is so much to this world and to mankind that we don't know, in fact most of the problem in the world arise when some people start to think that they know all there is to know which is why I came to my definition of God as a placeholder for the limits of human knowledge, we usually redefine him/her/it (all religions alike) as our understanding of our world and ourselves increases.

You can however not exclude the possibility of NDEs having to do with the brain, in fact it is the most likely responsible organ as it is an organ in man that is largely unknown and unexplored, I beleive you realise that there is no other part of the body that a man cannot survive without or at least be transplanted with but no one dare tamper with the brain as man cannot survive without it, the fact that these various other world NDEs are usually "personalized" to the individuals and their experiences also suggests a link to their existing memories for example, why did this so called Atheist not see streets of Gold or 72 virgins? and mind you, the fact that he claimed to be an atheist does not preclude an upbringing based on a belief in God which could easily have been triggered when he was in the coma/NDE. I distinctly remember someone telling me sometime ago that there was an area of the brain that when subjected to some form of electrical stimuli would cause you to recall everything that has ever happened to you from when you were a baby and I'm sure yu are conversant with the use of hypnotism to bring out repressed memories.

It is hard to conduct experiments on the brain as you could easily end up damaging a person permanently, most of what is known about the brain now was achieved by the German scientists who conducted all sorts of inhuman experiments on the Jews during the second world war. No one can do that now because it is immoral, unethical and is bound to raise a lot of dust in international circles.

To catch your attention, I will point out to you that there are some buddhist monks who have been studied and confirmed to be able to regulate their body temperature through meditation. I have also had the opportunity to meet a Deaf mute who seemed to have the power to control his micro environment (though I'm not sure it wasn't some magical tricks he was up to) he specifically seemed to have some form of control over water and would cause rain to fall on your windscreen if he begged you for money and you didn't give him. A Latvian friend has also told me of a man he knew who could kill flies by simply concentrating enough to kill them (this friend of mine also does not beleive in God).

Not all claims of supernatural phenomenon are true and it is well within the realm of probability that some of them are true but until they become mainstream/ubiquitous enough to become a source of worry or rejoicing, I think we should leave them in the realm of research and personal experiences (Please note that I said "experiences" and not "beliefs".

[quote author=~Lady~ link=topic=225454.msg3402918#msg3402918 date=1233281164]Don't be so stupid to make such an ignorant assumption. I know about these energies because Exxonmobil has an ad running about these energies, turn on your t.v. you'll see it too. It is also called science duh.[/quote]I sincerely hope this is not typical Davidylanish behavior seeing as it is that I made bold the statement I was referring to which was (for clarity's sake) your authoritative statement that we are the thoughts of God.

[quote author=~Lady~ link=topic=225454.msg3402918#msg3402918 date=1233281164]Funny enough when I read it, I don't see the contradiction. Could it be that you have a one sided view of it and fail to see how and why this book came about? Or maybe you just want to read what you want to it. Or maybe you haven't studied the Bible and the history of the people writing it. Maybe you need to know what they were trying to convey, for example, the story of Cain and Abel isn't really about two literal brothers but about Israel and their surrounding nations. Want to know more about that?[/quote]Are you affirming my belief that the bible is predominantly an historical (but possibly not completely factual) account of the origins of the Jewish people? if you are then I have no contrary opinion but if you are saying it is the word of God meant for the whole of mankind then time has shown that it is grossly inadequate just as the Yoruba tales of Ogun, Sango, Oya and Igbo's Amadioha are historical but not factual relics of the various Nigerian cultures or the various Gods in Greek and other ancient mythologies.

[quote author=~Lady~ link=topic=225454.msg3402918#msg3402918 date=1233281164]My point is just because it isn't seen doesn't mean it isn't real. Maybe you should have read what the person whom I was replying to said, before you jumped into my post to spill crap.
Dude said, God isn't real because he cannot be seen, I put a hole in his argument stating that space, time air, and such cannot be seen but they are very much real. Where am I leading to? I want so called intelligent people to stop being elementary in their postings.

Well then bindex must be a fool, because according to him, if it cannot be seen then it isn't real. Seriously follow the posts before you start spilling nonsense.

That way you get to know why a person is reply the way he/she is replying and exactly what he/she is replying to, instead of doing amaebo work.

Are you even sure you know what point you're supposed to be making?[/quote]I don't think Bindex has ever implied that only visual proofs are authentic, atimes in attempting not to wax lyrical, people summarise their posts and some of the meaning is lost. You're welcomed to insult me anytime though it doesn't do any justice to my idea of a Lady. 

[quote author=~Lady~ link=topic=225454.msg3402918#msg3402918 date=1233281164]I'm sorry what? I don't get you, what strict separation? First you don't understand the Bible and you seriously think you can dabble into the mystics of it?[/quote]I was pointing out the historical fact that the old roman catholic church did not encourage members of the laity to read the bible as it was supposed to be only understood by priests and other members of the clergy hence one of the reasons for Martin Luther's rebellion (revolutionary dude the guy was, I'm sure if he was born in these days he wouldn't be a christian at all)

[quote author=~Lady~ link=topic=225454.msg3402918#msg3402918 date=1233281164]First of all, God did not create anyone that way, man chose that to become that way. That is what everyone is missing. When you read the Pentateuch you all miss one very important part of it that explains why things were the way they were. There is a sharp contrast between the Old Testament and the New Testament isn't it? You guys can't complain about the principles in the New Testament, actually you live by it. There is a reason why Christ had to come and it's right there in Genesis 3. When you guys understand that particular Chapter you will understand why everything turned out to be this way.[/quote]That account of the origin of sin is fraught with contradictions in itself, I will leave it to Bindex and Chris to trash that out with you because I'm sure once we start, you will start to point out a thousand and one differenct meanings of the forbidden fruit (plain old shaggin explains it for me everytime as it does seem like eating a forbidden fruit at the first time with all the anticipation and anxiety at being caught in the act).
I do like the New Testament and beleive the world would be a better place if more people could be like Jesus, the dear old soul always stressed the important things in life and in my opionion never even intended to start a religion per se, it is unfortunate we don't have a book he really wrote as I personally beleive he was mostly misunderstood in his sayings.

[quote author=~Lady~ link=topic=225454.msg3402918#msg3402918 date=1233281164]That is where I was trying to get to with Bindex until the lot of you started adding your own jara to the discussion.[/quote]No vex, I love giving you an hissy fit (makes my day everytime when you flare up and become totally unladylike, it is rather a pity you are not giving me much of the satisfaction today). And you do tend to run away from our discussions but now yu're in a corner since you started this thread so I have an opportunity to beat you black and blue. 

[quote author=~Lady~ link=topic=225454.msg3402918#msg3402918 date=1233281164]Man is the greatest author of confusion, go and read Genesis 3 and tell me what you get from it.[/quote]I disagree totally Lady, it is unfair to make a villain out of the victim (assuming the story were true)God is still not absolved of responsibility as to why he chose to put the forbidden fruit in a Garden with two innocent kiddies while ensuring the grounds of the garden were insecure enough to allow the serpent's entry. For a supposedly perfect being, he did a thoroughly shoddy job, Adam and Eve should be suing for damages at being the butt of a bad joke by a very cruel mind.