₦airaland Forum

A cunning attempt to dodge the 2 simple questions I asked, why are yu trying to muddle up the issue sending me to read some link, let me try to rephrase this. After having read through the link you gave me yourself, can you please answer the two questions I asked instead of asking me to attempt becoming an encyclopedia of useless knowledge.

Bastage:
Read up before you go throwing accusations around, Huxley.

You'll find that Christianity was not founded on the notion of Original Sin - in fact, the Orthodox Church, doesn't recognise Original Sin at all. It wasn't until 300 years after Christ that Irenaeus first came up with the idea and it was formulated as a weapon to be used to tighten Rome's strength over Christianity. And it wasn't for another couple of hundred years after that when the idea really took off with Augustine of Hippo pushing it on.
Look it up - you'll find Catholics still retain Augustine's doctrine but the majority of Protestants have watered it down, and like I said, they believe that Christ's death atoned for it.
Then go and check up on other groups like the Mormons, the Restoration Movement Churches, etc, who don't believe in it at all.
Original Sin as in the context of this thread is almost exclusive to the Catholic Church.

Read up on the subject and then you can come back here and tell me I'm talking crap.

Alright, we hear you though I doubt if anyone except themselves include the Mormons as christians anyway but even if we agree with what you say could you still expatiate further on

1. What those "churches" have to say about the Garden of Eden story (perhaps they don't even have it in their bibles becos everyone writes his own bible this days, even murderers such as Rev. King)?

and

2. What the coming of Jesus was supposed to achieve according to those christian sects?

Oh my God!!! They killed Democracy, those f$%^kin bastards.

Barca wins the cup, but the Gooners will be back next year.

The Alpha male in the Nigerian Jungle has triumphed yet again, the challenger hopefully lives to fight another day.

mikeansy:
I am sorry that is a bit disrespectful.

If she is comfortable with her pics on the internet, so be it. . . . . .just deal with it.

I think she is pretty . . . . .lol

Well, if yu say so, did I ever mention I was uncomfortable with her pics? I like the pics and that is why I want her to follow me to my room nah if na wowo girl I for ask? no disrespect meant at all but the pic na advertisement anyway. It is definitely not advisable for her to have her pics online though for so many reasons I can think of.

^ or Neurotic bloke probably has a bad case of nerves.

@Jagunlabi

I wonder o "Highly Intelligent beings" but no knowledge of good and evil sounds like a contradiction in terms. I wonder if Image123 intelligent? or is it religion making a monkey out of otherwise reasonable and rational human beings again?

yicob:
@ Ope, must u post ur pics ?

I tire o, e be like say Ope dey sell something. Okay Ope, I wan buy would you mind following me to my room?

Bastage:
Original sin is a Catholic thing.
Most non-Catholics don't believe in it - those that do adhere to it in some form, believe that Christ wiped the Sin away with his Crucifixion and Ressurection.

This is an "untruth" (trying to be civil), it is the bed rock of the christian faith, some of them only claim it as a metaphor for all sorts of jargons in a bid to wriggle out of its stupidity when taken literally. Can you please answer this simple question, If there was no original sin, wetin Jesus come do?

Damn incompetent god aint he? The whole Eden story looks sort of like one big bully god setting up two innocent puny beings and unleashing a cunning devil on them. There is no way in which you look at it that god gets any credit from this debacle. Well, it does fit in somehow with the creation for his pleasure story sort of like the kid creature at the end of the "Men In Black" movie tossing the universe around like some kind of play ball.

On second thots, maybe the Universe was actually created by god's father who then handed the earth over to his son as a plaything.
I could start a religion based on that I guess.

@mazaje

I find this particularly intriguing and a bit disturbing.

[Quote]creation was for HIS pleasure.[/quote]in response to yur statement about god being perfect. WTF is this stuff about his pleasure? pleasure

Is he implying that human beings were created in a wanking fit from God? what a despicable God if this is what he considers pleasure, psychopath does not even begin to describe him.

God pleasuring himself, what a laugh.

JeSoul:
You answered your own point. A famous saying goes, "Going to church doesn't make you a christian anymore than standing in a garage makes you a cadillac". Anyone can claim anything, what we should be looking for are those who are walking the walk quietly helping and affecting peoples lives, without asking for and receiving no recognition for it.

That is a different matter entirely, a cadillac is clearly defined and well known but god isn't. He is basically as malleable as your imagination. Damn slippery character he is
I do appreciate those who help people and are affecting lives even if their beliefs are misguided as the same can be said for any other religion you can think of. Reminds me of one of my favorite verses in the bible.

James 1:25-27 If anyone thinks he is religious and does not bridle his tongue but deceives his heart, this person's religion is worthless. Religion that is pure and undefiled before God, the Father, is this: to visit orphans and widows in their affliction, and to keep oneself unstained from the world.

I tell you that I accept the instructions in that verse but I don't do it for an unseen God the father but I do it for the inherent truth in it (coming from an introspective philosophical mind). The writer's beliefs might be misguided through his being indoctrinated in the religion of his people but the truth in that verse transcends even the bible itself, this is what life really should be about rather than the lies being peddled about these days.

Noetic sure can babble rubbish, even a nursery school pupil can do better than this. A question please, does this guy have any tertiary education at all? I am quite disappointed at the last post, damn waste of space making no sense whatsoever. I'll list just a few howlers from this guy.

How can an educated person say this?

[Quote]
Solomon was the wisest man in his time, and he was giving his opinion on the constant changes that define life. His statement aint a biblical fact about the earth's movement. I believe u can do better.[/quote]If Solomon's statement isn't biblical fact, I wonder what is, perhaps Noetic's statements?

Another statement I can't even begin to fathom is

[Quote]
God has never been used to fill the gap for the things we dont know.[/quote]made in repsonse to this statement

[Quote]
events in the observable world can generally be accounted for without introducing a god as an explanation. as i pointed out in my previous post thunderstorms, earthquakes,  lighting, plagues, eclipses, the variety of natural species, and even the origins of life itself all have detailed natural explanations(some of which i don't really agree with), notwithstanding the fact that they were once thought to be the immediate work of god[/quote]Word of advise noetic, if you have nothing to say please keep quiet. People might start wondering if you're educated at all. On second thoughts, what is your discipline? I'm just a bit curious.

@mazaje

3 gbosas for you, I like the cruise missiles yu are launching at this guy while he is still shooting arrows that the hebrews shot a long time ago (while waiting for his god to rain down fire and brimstone on you). I hope the guy realises the deficiencies in his argument before he becomes a total hypocrite like our resident "Artful Liar".

@Tasma
Some people have to beleive because they just cannot bear to have a void in their understanding of how everything ties together and that is understandable. What I can't stomach is the hypocrisy that accompanies such a mindset in some people. There is a very big difference between believing because you don't have all the answers and perpetuating lies in the name of belief.
I know very intelligent and knowledgeable people who have belief but they accept the obvious inconsistencies in the "God concept" and are just afraid of what the world would become if people don't beleive in God anymore, to them it is more like opting for the best of 2 evils. Folks like Davidylan and Noetic are a whole different breed entirely, I find it hard to even refer to them as christians atimes cos they descend to despicable depths atimes to dodge the obvious inconsistencies in their god concept I do wonder if they are actually defending god or their own bloated egos.

@Lady

I agree wholeheartedly with your first statement but the second amounts to a very bad lie. I think you possibly mean something else totally different from what you've written.

@^

Not necessarily, it is a good testimony for the new God named "Surgery". All hail the great Surgery.

JeSoul:
It will never ever make sense to you Dudu, until you realize that the bible's main purpose is not to be made sense of but to be believed and accepted by faith. There are many many things I still don't understand about the bible, but I accept and believe it by faith, because I believe in God and God reveals Himself to me in a personal way. This in turn makes me trust His word - the bible even though sometimes I don't understand it.

Fair enough, maybe when he reveals himself to me in a personal way then I'll agree with you. You can be sure however that one of the first things I'll tell him is that he's probably gotten weary and should step aside.

JeSoul:
Putting the bible in the hands of a person without the spirit of God to reveal it is like placing a laptop in the hands of a monkey - it cannot comphrehend what it sees not matter how hard it tries.

Maybe yu're right, but a lot of those who claim to have the spirit of God often act even more stupid than monkeys. A good example is the guy who challenged the lion at UI zoo to a wrestlemania bout.

JeSoul:
lol . . . people who are travelers are usually people who are seeking something they have not yet found. Are you such a soul my dear Dudu?
Australia I hear is the desire of a lotta people's hearts these days. Easy lifestyle, safe environment etc . . . I hope to visit someday soon.

Yep, I'm sure seeking for something aren't we all? heard the same about Australia and one of my goals is to travel to all the continents in my lifetime.

JeSoul:
The beauty of the bible and christianity is that there is really only one very simple theme - to know God. Its not about wisdom and knowledge and dechiphering the hidden codes and mysteries of the universe- no. It is simply to know God and to walk with Him.

They don't do quite a good job of revealing God as I can think of a thousand and one ways God could have made himself known without all the controversies the bible and christianity has generated (if he exists that is) and he is supposed to be all powerful and all knowing aint he. I'd most likely do a better job as God I guess (I hope I'm not painting a Bruce Almighty scenario here).
I think when you create an entity supposed to account for everything you don't understand in the present, you end up with a bundle of contradictions as the world is full of at present and when you sincerely navigate the haze of confusion and contradictions, you come to the only logical conclusion and realisation that there was never any such thing.

JeSoul:
Scotland seems like an odd choice . . . but I guess odd is ur stlye . I remember one episode of the Simpsons where they were in Ireland and making fun of how the economy and life there had dwindled down . . . i guess it was more than just comedy huh? lol.

Its not totally by choice but I couldn't leave the UK axis as moving to Canada would be too big a change for me at present (though I still intend to experience a bit of the North American way of living due to my wanderlust) and the Simpson episode was definitely more than comedy. I can count off-hand up to 5 friends initially based in Ireland I know who have moved back to pakistan, Brazil and India or relocated to Australia. Besides, the polish euro immigrants are leaving in droves.

JeSoul:
1Cor 2:14 The man without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him, and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually discerned.

sawwrry dear, I couldn't resist either

Maybe because there is really nothing to understand or discern and its just some people trying to dominate or subjugate others (remember the Wizard of Oz?), I'm sure that you know so called higher knowledge and spiritual discernment is always the foundation of cults and fanaticsm

JeSoul:
Its going well oh my brotha, thanks for asking hows life in Leprechaun country?

Ooops, need to update my profile I'm in Scotland at present trying to settle in after relocating and taking a break from my studies till september (hope to continue part-time as the credit crunch is biting hard). The Leprechauns are still getting into all types of mischief I guess, they prolly have to face the gloom of their country becoming a ghost of itself once again as there is some sort of mass emigration at the moment.

JeSoul:
I see Duduspace is up to his usual mudslinging at a God that doesn't exist

@topic, while there have been some incredible natural phenomena in the past, this one is obviously fake, nuthin more than an illusion.

M'dear, yu know I can't resist the urge to poke some fun at things I find ridiculous. Hows the muzik going anyways?

Well done m_nwankwo, don't mind the religious fanatics giving you grief. I am yet to see a peer reviewed article on creationism, all we have is a 7 day creation story from a book of fantasy.

Freakish stuff, why was God fluttering his/her eyelids? making a pass at someone on the ground I guess. Hmmm, that must be Zeus and not the God of the bible or Allah as none of them are known to be Lecherous.

noetic:
@ mazaje.

lots of the same old stuffs.

will reply in detail in due course. . . . . .busy at the moment.

Nothing to say? maybe becos the same old stuffs are true?

@Mazaje
Abeg well done, the poor bloke has to go and refresh his brain washing. Him liver dey fail am.

qft

noetic:
do u believe in the existence of "feli-ban-gbaski"? yes or no

Stop asking questions like this, do you think only in binary?

Pastor AIO:
Nothing I said involves an alternate timeline. Rather, I refer to No Time at all. Nothing I said involves parallel universes either.

Point noted, I now understand its more like "existence without time" but I must point out yu're beginning to sound somehow like my favorite looney on this forum "Kuns" (now where is that bloke, interesting reading his write-ups were)

Pastor AIO:
You obviously have a great fondness for science fiction etc and there's no harm there, but you don't have to force it into my posts and read it where it is not there.

Yes I do, and I beleive you do too. The Matrix is one of my favorites, shows someone can know the truth but choose to accept make belief because it is much easier to live in false hope and the comfort of accepted falsehood than to face the enormous task of digging out the truth. I'll recommend it for you, some preachers have actually used it as a theme for their sermon.
I'm not forcing it into your posts, even yu must admit that a term like "existence without time" would do well for a movie tag line.

Pastor AIO:
I am talking about existence without time. Are you saying that this is impossible? Or Gooblydook without proof etc? Is that what you are saying?

Existence without time? Now that is a new one, care to expatiate further?

impossible? I find it hard to say that word, but are yu implying that it is a possible explanation or stating it as fact?

Gooblydook without proof? yes that is what I'm saying, care to put forward the proofs?

noetic:
that's my problem with u. why should u disapprove something when u have no alternative.

This is a fallacy and I will prove it,

I might not know what 567495576365675565757 multiplied by 66757464749696767679 is but I know it is not 3 and can disprove it if someone says it is 3 (working in base 10 that is).

I might not know or prove where you are, but I can disprove someone who claims that you are in my house.

should I go on?

A simple but apt demonstration of the flaw in your thinking or what do you think?

noetic:
did u make any point?

Yu don't need to tell me its food for thot, yu are even at a loss of words to say. Come off your high horse, yu're one unnecessarily egoistical fellow, a true Davidylan disciple (as opposed to Jesus disciple). 

noetic:
the day atheists start defending their beliefs, they will earn my respect.

You obviously don't think much, have you ever considered the fact that the answer to a question is not always yes or no? what if I tell you I have no belief? yu are the one who says you have a belief and the burden of proof lies with you. Did any atheist or agnostic here ever ask for your respect?

When Faraday postulated his principles of electromagnetic induction, the burden of proving it was with him which he did with experiments with consistent results which have stood the test of time. Faraday never asked those who questioned him to even come up with alternative explanations. If Faraday, a man could do that why can't your so called omni-everything god do that? why does he need half-baked lackeys like you to do his dirty job of muddling everything up?

Instead of shouting yourself hoarse, perhaps you need to listen to what those you've lumped together as atheists are saying while being honest to agree in instances where your logic is wrong (as has been shown severally in this thread and in others) rather than resorting to grand standing, lies and insults. If you do this, I assure you would become a much better person with a clearer definition and insight into what you beleive.

Pastor AIO:
Is that your criticism?

fair enough, . . . I guess?

Yup its convoluted, has no evidence and cannot be proven, don't make much sense and sounds sort of like an escape into fantasy for want of a better explanation.
I must however applaud the fertile imagination of the person who came up with such an explanation (your good self or someone else).

Pastor AIO:
I thought that I'd already addressed this issue here:
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-265654.0.html#msg3796280

I was expecting a response.

Yu mean your alternate timeline and parallel universes gooblydook? sorry, I'll stick with the Sci-Fi channel when I want to indulge in fantasies as they do a much better job and don't claim to be saviours of the world.