₦airaland Forum

DoctorAlien:
This is GOD's view of the dead, not OT view. You know that Moses is the only person we're told GOD resurrected and took to Heaven.

WRONG AGAIN... IT WAS JOBS VIEW... NOT GOD... the whole episode started In Job 13:20...

The new testament contains the fullness of revelation and it is GOD'S VIEW...

lie... Where does it say God resurrected Moses and took him to heaven?

DoctorAlien:
easymancfc, the Bible passage in question is 1 Peter 3:18-20. The preaching was done "by the Spirit" (verse 18) in Noah's day--to people who were then living (verses 19, 20). The "spirits in prison" refers to people whose lives were in bondage to Satan. (See Psalms 142:7; Isaiah 42:6, 7; 61:1; and Luke 4:18.)

now you're trying to twist scripture... it clearly says Jesus "preached to" and where there is a preacher... there is a listener... of course it was done in the spirit because it didn't happen on earth... the point Is... THEY WERE CONSCIOUS PERIOD
.

DoctorAlien:
I don't understand: did Eccl. 9:10 stop being true in the NT?
The Bible says there is no knowledge of any sort in the grave.

My friend 1 Peter 3 refutes everything you say here...
better drop this Adventist teaching because it doesn't match up with the fullness of the new testament

DoctorAlien:
"So man lieth down, and riseth not: till the heavens be no more, they shall not awake, nor be raised out of their sleep." Job 14:12

easymancfc, this disproves your claim that some people like the OT heroes some how rose up to go to Heaven.

going by this again therefore, there should be no resurrection "till the heaven be no more"
BUT ELIJAH RESURRECTED THE SON OF A WIDOW, JESUS RESSURECTED JAIRUS'S DAUGHTER, LAZARUS, WIDOW OF ZERAPHAT'S SON, ETC AND EVEN HIMSELF AND THE LASR TIME I CHECKED HEAVEN ( WHETHER SKY OR THE MAIN NEVER CEASE TO EXIST )...

DoctorAlien:
"So man lieth down, and riseth not: till the heavens be no more, they shall not awake, nor be raised out of their sleep." Job 14:12

easymancfc, this disproves your claim that some people like the OT heroes some how rose up to go to Heaven.

I DON SEE SOMETHING TODAY.. A PERSON USING OLD TESTAMENT VIEW OF DEAD TO DISPROVE NEW TESTAMENT...
THE POINT IS JOB DIDN'T HAVE THE REVELATION THAT THE AUTHOR OF HEBREWS, OR MATHEW OR PETER HAD PERIOD...
again I emphasize
Moses was conscious, the cloud of witnesses are conscious, the 24 elders are conscious etc

DoctorAlien:
"Whatsoever thy hand findeth to do, do it with thy might; for there is no work, nor device, nor knowledge, nor wisdom, in the grave, whither thou goest." Eccl. 9:10

easymancfc, there is no knowledge in the grave, GOD tells us. Paul himself tells us the manner in which we will be with the Lord(see 1 Thess. 4:16-17). How can that statement "and so shall we ever be with the Lord" make sense if Paul has been with the Lord before His second coming? The problem lies in the version from which you quoted, which twisted what Paul was really saying in Phil. 1:21-24.

Moreover, Christ said that He will come again to take His people to Himself, so that they can be where He is. Christ does not say that His people will go to Him at death. Paul agrees too in 1 Thess. 4:16-17.

point 1: Ecclesiastes 9:10 is the old testament which happened before the resurrection...
point 2: Ecclesiastes 9:6-12 talks about them not being aware of what happens "under the sun" not that they have no consciousness...
1 Peter 3 disproves that because it says Jesus went to the Souls in Prison which were of the old testament also... if they had no consciousness how could they listen to Christ's preaching...

Ephesians 4 continues the story
Ephesians 4: 8 Therefore it is said,

“When he ascended on high he led a host of captives,
and he gave gifts to men.”

9 (In saying, “He ascended,” what does it mean but that he had also descended into the lower parts of the earth?10 He who descended is he who also ascended far above all the heavens, that he might fill all things.) 

HOW CAN CHRIST LEAD UNCONSCIOUS DEAD PEOPLE IN THE GRAVE... LIKE PETER 3 SAYS UNLESS THEY ARE THE SOULS IN PRISON... AND WHERE DID HE DROP THEM WHEN HE ASCENDED... BECAUSE IT CLEARLY SAYS HE LEAD THEM WHEN HE ASCENDED...

there's no problem with the translation...

Philippians 1:22-24 King James Version
(KJV)
But if I live in the flesh, this is the fruit of
my labour: yet what I shall choose I wot not.
For I am in a strait betwixt two, having a
desire to depart, and to be with Christ;
which is far better:
Nevertheless to abide in the flesh is more
needful for you.


NIV
22 If I am to go on living in the body,
this will mean fruitful labor for me. Yet
what shall I choose? I do not know!
23 I am torn between the two: I
desire to depart and be with Christ,
which is better by far; 24 but it is
more necessary for you that I remain in
the body.

All of which say same thing... DEPART FROM THIS LIFE IS INDEED TO BE WITH CHRIST

DoctorAlien:
You must find another interpretation for the verses in Revelation, because Jesus said He would COME AGAIN to take His people to Himself, so that they will be where He is, and not that His people go to Him, maybe at death. You have not shown me where the Bible says that souls leave the body when a person dies.

So the 24 elders are not his people, the old testament heroes are not his people? the spirits of just men made perfect are not his people?

Rev 6:9 When he opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of those who had been slain for the word of God and for the witness they had borne; 10 they cried out with a loud voice, “O Sovereign Lord, holy and true, how long before thou wilt judge and avenge our blood on those who dwell upon the earth?” 11 THEN THEY WERE EACH GIVEN a WHITE ROBE and told to REST a LITTLE LONGER, until the number of their fellow servants and their brethren should be complete, WHO WERE TO BE KILLED as they themselves had been.

It's pretty clear... their souls are in heaven under God's altar, after their bodies were slain.. and from the capitalized it is also Clear that while their soul was in heaven and they were given white robes.. their counterparts on earth were preparing for their own death.. proving your interpretation wrong also

as to where Soul lives the body ... it is evident in all the passages where peoples souls are seen apart from their bodies.. rev 6 above, Hebrews 12:23, mat 17 .. Paul gave a hint to that Also In

2 Corinthians 5:6-8
"Therefore, being always of good courage, and knowing that while we are at home in the body we are absent from the Lord-- for we walk by faith, not by sight-- we are of good courage, I say... and prefer rather to be absent from the body and to be at home with the Lord."

He clearly says we can be 'absent from the body'. Therefore, we are not an inseperable body+breath= 'living soul' which has no existence after life ceases.

Philippians 1:21-24
"For to me, to live is Christ, and to die is gain. But if I am to live on in the flesh, this will mean fruitful labor for me; and I don't know which to choose. But I am hard-pressed from both directions, having the desire to depart and be with Christ, for that is very much better; yet to remain on in the flesh is more necessary for your sake."
If Paul knew he would not be conscious again until the second coming, why would he desire to 'depart and be with Christ'? An early death will not hasten the second comming, and how could unconsciousness be 'better' than remaining and completing his work?

DoctorAlien:
Why didn't you quote the whole of John 14:3? Jesus told His disciples that He was going to prepare a place for them. He then told them "I WILL COME AGAIN AND RECEIVE YOU UNTO ME, THAT WHERE I AM, THERE YE MAY BE ALSO." In the light of this, how can anyone claim that Mary is in Heaven? Has Jesus come again?

When Jesus resurrected, He told Mary that He had not yet ascended to His Father(John 20:17). How can this statement be true if Jesus went to Heaven with the thief?

I don't deny the General resurrection at the end.. but I reconcile all the passages together.. at the end of time our souls will be united with our bodies when Jesus comes... that I believe... but to believe in the Soul sleep when we clearly session activities of Souls of dead people like those mentioned in Hebrews 12:1, or spirits in heaven In Hebrews 12:23 or the 24.elders in rev 5:3 or Moses in math 17 or the martyrs in Rev 6 or the great multitude of rev 7:9

DoctorAlien:
Jesus assured the people of His day, “...thou shalt be recompensed at the resurrection of the just” (Luke 14:14). Again, He said, “For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works” (Matthew 16:27). There is no equivocation here. In simple, direct language Jesus declared that no one would be rewarded until the resurrection takes place at His second coming. This means that none of the righteous dead have gone to heaven so far. All are waiting in their graves for the judgment and the end of the world. Almost the last words of the Bible confirm this fact. “And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his works shall be” (Revelation 22:12).

So Mary is not in Heaven now, because the resurrection of the just has not happened.

Rev 5:8 directly contradicts your interpretation of this verse because it's says 24 elders are already in heaven offering to God the prayers of the saints

Hebrews 21:1 and 23 Also contradict your interpretation because the spirits of just men made perfect and God's first born are already there

Ubenedictus:
The thread has finally been derailed

Na them derail am.. jumping from one argument to the other when they discover it doesn't hold water

DoctorAlien:
Jesus said that the hour was coming when those in the grave will hear His voice, and will come out, some to resurrection of life, and some to resurrection of damnation. How does Jesus saying this before resurrection have any impact on the meaning of His statement?

Where does the Bible teach this?

To your first question.. Jesus is the one who gives eternal life or at least he is the way to eternal life... see John 14... and he said to his disciples that he is going to prepare a place for them... see see John 14:2-3... so when he ascended that's when heaven was made open and like 1 Peter 3 says he went to preach to the souls in prison...

don't forget the good thief.. Jesus said... today you will be with me in paradise ... or Stephen who saw heaven opened at his death...

DoctorAlien:
Gen. 2:7 KJV defines "soul" as a combination of body and breath of life. Therefore SOUL = BODY + BREATH.

Just like GOD said the blood of Abel was crying unto Him out of the ground, the things which these men suffered demand justice.

that doesn't work...
reason 1: Hebrews 12:23 says spirit of just men also...

Hebrews 12:1 talks about old testament heroes as cloud of witnesses Not waiting in the grave .. Abraham, Abel, Noah, Rahab, Gideon, etc as Mentioned in Hebrews 11... whose resurrection the Bible doesn't tell us about

Reason 2: The Bible talks about people on earth and People in heaven interceding for those on earth directly so following your analogy.. that can't be possible...
Rev 5:8 And when he had taken the scroll, the four living creatures and the twenty-four ELDER'S fell down before the Lamb, each holding a harp, and with golden bowls full of incense, which are the PRAYERS of the SAINTS;

THE ELDERS ARE DEFINITELY HUMANS IN HEAVEN.. BODY OR SOUL DOESN'T MATTER.. POINT IS.. THEY ARE NOT ON THE GRAVE WAITING... AND THEY ARE OFFERING THE PRAYERS OF THE SAINTS WHO AM SURE YOU WOULD SAY ARE PEOPLE ON EARTH

DoctorAlien:
Jesus said, “Marvel not at this, for the hour is coming in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation” (John 5:28, 29).

easymancfc, how can the righteous be in Heaven now when Jesus says that those who have done good would resurrect "from their graves" to eternal life?

Reason 1: this was before the resurrection... so technically.. heaven was not open yet.. secondly you assume that the body and soul need to be together before it can be resurrected....

when a person dies we know the soul is not in the body anymore..

Like I pointed out in Mathew 17..MOSES'S SOUL WAS NOT IN HIS BODY IN THE GRAVE... HIS SOUL WAS WITH JESUS ON THE MOUNTAIN...

reason 2: Jesus went to the SOULS IN PRISON TAKE NOTE OF THE SOULS to preach to them when he descended according to your logic of 1 Thessalonians those souls should be with their bodies in the grave .. and am sure he didn't live them there...

1 Peter 3:18 For Christ also died for sins once for all, the righteous for the unrighteous, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh but made alive in the spirit; 19 in which he went and preached to the spirits in prison,

DoctorAlien:
Paul in 1 Thess. 4:16-17 describes without any limitation the way and means by which we go to be with the Lord. Don’t overlook the word “so” in his statement. It means “in this way.” By that little word Paul precluded every other way of being with the Lord. When he described the coming of Jesus and the resurrection of the saints as being the manner and means of being with the Lord, he automatically excluded all other means of doing it. Then he admonishes us to “comfort one another with these words.”

Resurrection of the body like I have said to you.. doesn't preclude or exclude anything... if you still insist.. then explain...
Hebrews 12:23, Hebrews 12:1 and this
Rev 6:9 When he opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of those who had been slain for the word of God and for the witness they had borne; 10 they cried out with a loud voice, “O Sovereign Lord, holy and true, how long before thou wilt judge and avenge our blood on those who dwell upon the earth?”

DoctorAlien:
1 Thess. 4:16-17 tells us that Mary will resurrect to meet the LORD when He comes back to this earth. So, she is not in Heaven now, and you're deceiving yourself praying to whom you don't know.

I thess 4:16.. doesn't tell you that... it only says bodies will be resurrected.. this soul of the dead in Christ are in heaven... So 1 thess 4:16 doesn't disprove anything...

Hebrews 12:1Therefore, since we are surrounded by so great a CLOUD of WITNESSES, let us also lay aside every weight, and sin which clings so closely, and let us run with perseverance the race that is set before us,

THESE ARE ALL THE OLD TESTAMENT HEROES IN HEAVEN MENTIONED IN HEBREWS 11.. they are not in the grave

Hebrews 12: 22 But you have come to Mount Zion and to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to innumerable angels in festal gathering, 23 and to the ASSEMBLY OF THE FIRST-BORN who are enrolled in heaven, and to a judge who is God of all, and to the SPIRITS of JUST MEN made perfect,

THIS NEW JERUSALEM IS NOT THE GRAVE...

Mat 17: 3 And behold, there appeared to them Moses and Eli′jah, talking with him.

Mountain of transfiguration... AND MOSES A DEAD MAN NOT IN THE GRAVE WAITING FOR THE 2ND COMING

I can go on

DoctorAlien:
easymancfc, if you read your Bible, you would know that praying to Mary is unbiblical.

First of all, Mary doesn't even know that you're praying to her, neither is she in Heaven right now, nor does she intercede for anybody!

Let's live the part about her hearing us first...

DO YOU REALIZE THAT YOU JUST SAID MARY IS NOT IN HEAVEN?? BY WHAT AUTHORITY DO YOU SAY THAT.. DOES THE BIBLE TELL YOU THAT??

I KNOW YOU HATE CATHOLICS BUT DON'T SAY WHAT COULD POTENTIALLY BE BLASPHEMY BECAUSE YOU HAVE NO RIGHT TO SAY WHO IS IN HEAVEN OR HELL MUCH LESS PRONOUNCE JUDGEMENT AGAINST JESUS'S MOTHER...

shadeyinka:
I hear you.

Interestingly, Protestants don't call themselves that: the term Protestant was coined by the so called Roman Catholics

Good night Bro!

Actually they do.. Original protestants do.. like the Lutherans, some Presbyterians and Methodists

Splinz:
Mature and old harvest... immature harvest ni?

---

They claimed that they don't worship Mary but only honor her. And I asked: “Can we also say that those traditionalists bowing down to their own statues are also honoring their god and not worshiping them”? Now, if these people are called “idol worshipers”, then the Catholics are chiefs among them!

You see, Jael is actually the “most blessed of women (Judges 5:24)”, while Mary is “blessed among women”. Here's how the Bible describes her: “Blessed above women shall Jael the wife of Heber the Kenite be, blessed shall she be above women in the tent”.

According to this passage, Jael is even blessed more than Mary. But then, Catholics don't worship or honor her. Do you by any chance know the reason for this selective honor?

So, the blessedness of Jael dismisses any thought of giving special status to Mary! She was simply one of those blessed among women!

point 1 like italo pointed out... Mary was not in the tent.. Deborah called Jael greatest of the tent women... For killing (crushing this skull of Sisera) with a tent peg.

point 2.. DEBORAH called Jael blessed among women... while THE ANGEL GABRIEL and THE HOLY SPIRIT THROUGH ELIZABETH called Mary blessed among women.. (Luke 1:28, 1:42)
I believe the Angel and Holy Spirit have more power to proclaim than Deborah

point 3.. Jael didn't give birth to Jesus Christ.. the Saviour of the World.. Mary did.. So by virtue of what each did.. Mary is greater

point 4.. Mary Is according to Elizabeth under the Holy Spirit's influence called "MOTHER OF MY LORD" (Luke 1:43) and she calls herself HANDMAIDEN OF THE LORD (Luke 1:38)
Jael is but a tent woman albeit a great one

point 5: Jael is in the OLD TESTAMENT all of which is fulfilled or perfected in the NEW TESTAMENT of which Mary forms a good part...

Point 6 the prophecy of Gen 3:15 finds it perfect fulfillment in Mary.. As her seed.. JESUS CHRIST crushes the (skull)head of the Devil... using his cross..
which is only partly fulfilled by Jael using tent pegs to crush the Head of sisera...

Mcowubaba:
U say I get small Brain, my own better.

You are a brainwashed Sycophant and an Idol worshipper.

I keep giving you logical explanations, u keep dodging and blabbing up and down.

You keep making incoherent points and arguments.
So all those prayers (hail holy queen, memorare, holy rosary etc) were created by me, it's not in your yeye doctrine, nd no be your yeye Church leaders/founders write the doctrine

All those statues and sculptures of Mary was bought by me, no be your Reverend Fathers and Bishops dey buy them, put for a their various parishes.

You can only keep deluding yourself.
It would be stupid for me to keep arguing with you.
I'm done replying you... Go fuvk yourself

Proverbs 26:4
New Living Translation
Don't answer the foolish arguments of fools, or you will become as foolish as they are
I don't want to become a fool. So bye bye

Yes we pray the Rosary which is JESUS CENTRED...

Incase you don't know hail Mary, was not invented by the Catholic Church.. it is biblical, the Angel Gabriel's greeting to her...
Blessed are you among women was from Elizabeth's greeting when she was filled with the Holy Spirit to Mary Also..

Luke 1:28And the ANGEL being come in, said unto her:
Hail, full of grace, the Lord is with thee:
blessed art thou among women.

Luke 1:41b and ELIZABETH was FILLED WITH THE HOLY SPIRIT 42 AND SHE exclaimed with a loud cry, “Blessed are you among women, and blessed is the fruit of your womb!

SO BY YOUR THINKING.. THE ANGEL AND THE HOLY SPIRIT THROUGH ELIZABETH WHERE WORSHIPPING MARY...

the pray for us part is simply asking for her intercession... Which is definitely not wrong.. because we are too intercede which means "PRAY FOR" each other...

Jesus tells us
mat 5: 44 But I say to you, Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you,

Paul said
1 Tim 2:1 First of all, then, I urge that supplications, prayers, intercessions, and thanksgivings be made for all men, 2 for kings and all who are in high positions, that we may lead a quiet and peaceable life, godly and respectful in every way.3 This is good, and it is acceptable in the sight of God our Savior, 4 who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth

rom 1:9 For God is my witness, whom I serve with my spirit in the gospel of his Son, that without ceasing I mention you always in my prayers,

2 cor 1:11 You also must help us by prayer, so that many will give thanks on our behalf for the blessing granted us in answer to many prayers.

Concerning the Rosary and all those prayers you mention... All points to Jesus..
The Rosary mysteries are about Jesus's life.. not to forget the Glory be... the Our Father...
the Hail holy queen ends with show unto us the blessed fruit of your womb JESUS... amongst others...

KNOWING REV FR OR BROTHER OR SISTER DOESN'T MEAN YOU KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT THE CATHOLIC FAITH... I REPEAT.. SHOW ME THE PROOF FROM THE CATECHISM....

Any interview invites for Abuja candidates yet

shadeyinka:
How many Popes do you think the Orthodox Christians have. If they broke of from the Catholics then, you must share the same train of Popes up to your breakup

shade I think you have a misconception about the orthodox and Catholic Churches....
here is the fact... the orthodox church separated from the Catholic Church and not the Catholic Church from the orthodox church...
this is called the great schism or the East-West split.. Which happened in 1054... prior to that.. they were the same church which was CATHOLIC... they separated because of certain disagreements Prominent among these were the issues of the source of the Holy Spirit , whether leavened or unleavened bread should be used in the Eucharist , the
Bishop of Rome's claim to universal
jurisdiction, and the place of the See of
Constantinople in relation to the Pentarchy...

THE POINT IS THEY WERE ONE CHURCH BEFORE THEN AND WERE ALL UNDER THE SEE OF THE BISHOP OF ROME BEFORE 1054... AND POPE URBAN TRYING TO UNITE THEM CALLED FOR THE CRUSADES IN 1055 TO HELP WIN BACK CHRISTIAN TERRITORIES OF SPAIN, JERUSALEM ETC AND THE UNIFICATION OF BOTH EAST AND WEST.. WHICH UNFORTUNATELY DIDN'T HAPPEN

TO ANSWER YOUR IMMEDIATE QUESTION... THE LAST POPE THEY RECOGNIZED WAS POPE LEO IX.. DURING WHOSE PAPACY THE SCHISM OR SEPARATION OCCURRED

here's a link
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/East–West_Schism

Mcowubaba:

Someone may establish something, but it may deviate from the original concept and idealogy, especially when the founder is no longer available (physically or otherwise) .

In simpler terms, Jesus Christ establish Christianity, many denomination have come from it, Catholic just happened to be amongst first denominations that came into existence from Christianity.

UAC, created the gala concept and idea, but today many other companies have created their own type of gala (biggie, rite etc), it all originated from the concept of UAC.
Another example
Seun created Nairaland, if for some reason he is no longer physically available to pilot the affairs of Nairaland, the person who will take over, may change many things about Nairaland, which was never in Seun's plan or idea, and S.eun where ever he will be, will not be happy about this

Same applies to Christianity, Jesus Christ created Christianity, but many other individuals have created their OWN concept of Christianity.

Almost all denominations in Nigeria are guilty of this, Catholic inclusive.

Something being old or ancient Don't make it Right or Legitimate!!!!! ...

Catholics have been adoring and praising Mary since centuries, nd bowing down to sculptures, but that is not RIGHT

JESUS CHRIST did not create Catholic Church, rather some early Christians created Catholic Church using the Christian concept.

Show me any evidence that a Jesus Christ is a Catholic or he created Catholic Church denomination..
Jesus Christ rightly said, I'm the way the truth and the life, no one cometh to the Father except through me...

I don't know where Catholics saw Mary in the text, I never heard when Jesus Christ said people should ask Mary to intercede for them to the father or to him..
You guys will always say at the wedding at Cana , Mary begged Jesus Christ for a Miracle

The Holy trinity is God the Father, God the son, God the Holy Spirit... Mary name no dey diaaa

Catholics like many other Denominations are Brainwashed people deluding themselves. Making mockery of Christianity (Pun intended).

I'm a lapsed Catholic, I know almost everything about the Catholic Church, Catholic Church is Far from Christianity

Oh.. So you know everything.. Please give the Part of the Catechism where the Catholic Church teaches that its followers should ADORE MARY...
please I need the Paragraph number... am curious... prove it using the Catechism which contains all Catholic teachings

08132442936... please add me to the group

has any Abuja candidate received interview invite??

jswagg4:
Just received Interview Invite for Fidelity bank at Enugu. Who knows any idea of what's next?

what was your test score and when did you write please

on the scripture part, the scriptures was made by the church and for the church... not the other Way around... the church came first before new testament scriptures were compiled...
one thing of note is that the letter to the Corinthians was primarily for the Corinthians and the letter to the Colossians was primarily to the Colossians and the letter Thessalonians was primarily to the Thessalonians to address all the problems they were facing.... One more thing Worthy of note is that they were all waiting for Jesus to return, they didn't even think the world will last to this time...

This guy has been taught poorly, or he has a poor understanding... He has closed himself to what he missed.. and he thinks he has the full revelation now so I rest my case.. am tired of going to and fro with him...


All the best to him..

luckyCO:
Catholic in general prefer meat(roman dogma and her teachings) and drink(roman interpretation of scripture plus tradition and their understanding) (physical) than righteousness,peace and joy in the Holy Ghost(spiritual).

You have a caricature of Catholicism..
Yes Catholics prefer Catholic teaching to what one self-acclaimed "MAN OF GOD" says or teaches just like non Catholics believe in their own doctrine and interpretation of scripture and hold fast to it compared to what others teach or believe ... it's only right to follow your teachers ..... you seem to make yourself the judge over what is righteous and who has the Holy Spirit .... again I will quote the Romans 14 you insist to wrongly use out of context against Catholicism
Romans 14:3 Let not him who eats despise him who abstains, and let not him who abstains pass judgment on him who eats; for God has welcomed him. 4 Who are you to pass judgment on the servant of another? It is before his own master that he stands or falls. And he will be upheld, for the Master is able to make him stand.

1 cor 4:3 But with me it is a very small thing that I should be judged by you or by any human court. I do not even judge myself. 4 I am not aware of anything against myself, but I am not thereby acquitted. It is the Lord who judges me. 5 Therefore do not pronounce judgment before the time, before the Lord comes, who will bring to light the things now hidden in darkness and will disclose the purposes of the heart. Then every man will receive his commendation from God.
Don't judge let God who sees the heart and knows our intentions judge

luckyCO:
Catholic in general prefer meat(roman dogma and her teachings) and drink(roman interpretation of scripture plus tradition and their understanding) (physical) than righteousness,peace and joy in the Holy Ghost(spiritual).

You have a caricature of Catholicism..
Yes Catholics prefer Catholic teaching to what one self-acclaimed "MAN OF GOD" just like non Catholics believe in their own doctrine and interpretation of scripture... it's only right..... you seem to make yourself the judge over what is righteous and who has the Holy Spirit .... again I will quote the Romans 14 you insist to wrongly use out of context against Catholicism
Romans 14:3 Let not him who eats despise him who abstains, and let not him who abstains pass judgment on him who eats; for God has welcomed him. 4 Who are you to pass judgment on the servant of another? It is before his own master that he stands or falls. And he will be upheld, for the Master is able to make him stand.

1 cor 4:3 But with me it is a very small thing that I should be judged by you or by any human court. I do not even judge myself. 4 I am not aware of anything against myself, but I am not thereby acquitted. It is the Lord who judges me. 5 Therefore do not pronounce judgment before the time, before the Lord comes, who will bring to light the things now hidden in darkness and will disclose the purposes of the heart. Then every man will receive his commendation from God.
Don't judge let God who sees the heart and knows our intentions judge

luckyCO:
The bible said in matt 23:8, that we all are equal before God no hierachy.
Whatever gift God has given to you you profit withal. Once you are acting by the Holy Ghost,the only person that can challenge you is children of the bond women.

We are asked to make deceiples of all nation that is what you see apostle paul doing.
The presense of Holy Ghost brings humility no believer ever sees another believe as inferiour but you do your works according to the grace God has given you,no string attached.

Titus never went and set up braches and name them paul ministry neither did he save every sunday offering and send to apostle paul nor become pauls slave after have recieved salvation. We are all co-workers in the vineyard of God.

Again you quote the Bible out of context...
Mat 23:8 doesn't mean there's no hierarchy in the church, YES ALL MEN ARE EQUAL BEFORE GOD BUT THAT DOESN'T TAKE AWAY FROM CHURCH HIERARCHY...

ALL THE APOSTLES ACKNOWLEDGED THEIR HIERARCHY OVER THEIR FLOCK IN SCRIPTURES...

PAUL..
1 cor 4:15 For though you have countless guides in Christ, you do not have many FATHERS. For I became your FATHER in Christ Jesus through the gospel. 16 I urge you, then, be IMITATORS of ME.

PAUL TO TIMOTHY
1 Tim 1:2 To Timothy, my true child in the faith:
1 Tim 4:6 If you put these INSTRUCTIONS before the brethren, you will be a GOOD MINISTER of Christ Jesus,
11 Command and teach these things. 12 Let no one despise your youth, but set the believers an example in speech and conduct, in love, in faith, in purit

PAUL TO TITUS
Titus 1: 4 To Titus, my true child in a common faith:
5 This is why I left you in Crete, that you might AMEND WHAT WAS DEFECTIVE, and APPOINT ELDERS in every town as I directed you,
Titus 2:1 But as for you, teach what befits sound doctrine. 2 Bid the older men be temperate, serious, sensible, sound in faith, in love, and in steadfastness. 3 Bid the older women likewise to be reverent in behavior, not to be slanderers or slaves to drink; they are to teach what is good
PETER
1 Peter 5:5 So I exhort the ELDERS among you, AS A FELLOW ELDER and a witness of the sufferings of Christ as well as a partaker in the glory that is to
be revealed
1 Peter 1:1 Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ,..


others
Hebrews 13:7 Remember your leaders, those who spoke to you of God; consider the outcome of their life, and imitate their faith.
James 3:1Let not many of you become teachers, my brethren, for you know that we who teach shall be judged with greater strictness
1 Tim 5:17 Let the ELDERS who rule well be considered worthy of DOUBLE HONOR, especially those who labor in preaching and teaching;

AGAIN IN TRYING TO PROVE YOUR POINT YOU DENY WHAT SCRIPTURE SAYS... I URGE YOU AGAIN TO TAKE ALL SCRIPTURE INTO ACCOUNT...
2 Tim 3: 16 All scripture is inspired by God andprofitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness, 17 that the man of God may be complete, equipped for every good work.

luckyCO:
At what point is someone added to the body Christ is building? You must have recieved the baptism of the Holy Ghost before you become part of that body.
Book of Ezekiel outlines step/process through which someome must pass through before he/she is added: ezekiel 36:24,25,26 then 27 before you are added.

The issue is that catholic church waters salvation to the point they have placed it under man's care. Such lies still exist in pieta like "say rosary everyday you will die by predestination,mary will ensure you will not goto hell"

What happened at pentecost is a call to the body of Christ which is spiritual. It take Holy Ghost for someone to repent and forsake Jewish religion for Christ at the risk of your life.
Yes you see 3000 people physically but the church building is spiritual. God prepares us through many trials such that we will be qualified to be part of that building (his body) which is not physical but spiritual for safe keeping.

If you say that the building christ is building is physical tell me the location and address physically and I will believe you?

there you go again... We Catholics believe and agree with Ezekiel 36... which Peter also emphasizes in Acts 2:38... So I don't know what you are talking about... We believe in baptism and according to Ezekiel and acts 2:38 the Holy Spirit comes after baptism, when it comes to your "baptism of the Holy Spirit", if you are talking about manifesting gift... then you Should know that everyone has different gifts see 1 cor 12:4 Now there are varieties of gifts, but the same Spirit; 5 and there are varieties of service, but the same Lord; 6 and there are varieties of working, but it is the same God who inspires them all in every one. 7 To each is given the manifestation of the Spirit for the common good. 8 To one is given through the Spirit the utterance of wisdom, and to another the utterance of knowledge according to the same Spirit, 9 to another faith by the same Spirit, to another gifts of healing by the one Spirit, 10 to another the working of miracles, to another prophecy, to another the ability to distinguish between spirits, to another various kinds of tongues, to another the interpretation of tongues. 11 All these are inspired by one and the same Spirit, who apportions to each one individually4 Now there are varieties of gifts, but the same Spirit; 5 and there are varieties of service, but the same Lord; 6 and there are varieties of working, but it is the same God who inspires them all in every one. 7 To each is given the manifestation of the Spirit for the common good. 8 To one is given through the Spirit the utterance of wisdom, and to another the utterance of knowledge according to the same Spirit, 9 to another faith by the same Spirit, to another gifts of healing by the one Spirit, 10 to another the working of miracles, to another prophecy, to another the ability to distinguish between spirits, to another various kinds of tongues, to another the interpretation of tongues. 11 All these are inspired by one and the same Spirit, who apportions to each one individually as he wills. as he wills.

SO UNLIKE WHAT HAPPENS IN PENTECOSTAL CHURCHES WHERE ONE PERSON CAN HAVE ALL THE GIFTS, IN THE CATHOLIC CHURCH GIFTS ARE SPREAD AS THE SPIRIT SEES FIT...

Again I emphasize your ignoring what the Bible says about the physical body.
.

luckyCO:
No matter what your analysis intends,anything done outside Holy Spirit is not accepted by God that why Christ died such that he will purchase us as member of God's household. Gal 2:20,it is no longer I but Christ living His life in me.
If you recieve Holy Ghost,the spirit of Christ,your whole being will change such to enable you do what pleases the Father.
God decides how he gives you Holy Ghost,it can be by anything He wants which does not matter.

With all due respect to you friend, you are the one choosing what to believe in scripture and deny others, your belief system is twisted, there's no analysis here, just what scripture says,
Verse singling of gal 2:20 doesn't help you.... the fact that Paul made that statement doesn't take away from the hierarchy of the physical Church after all he himself instructed Timothy and Titus to ordain church leaders in every town...
Or help your lies that we are spirits only...

TAKE ALL SCRIPTURE AS A WHOLE, STOP DOING VERSE SINGLING AND PICK WHAT FITS YOUR BELIEF SYSTEM