₦airaland Forum

Please, I will advise all Catholics to read the link provided by Gozizi. It’s really nice. I have been reading it. You will see everything you need there. . The Link http://www.scripturecatholic.com/ The below is lifted from the link

I. The Word of God is Transferred Orally

Mark 13:31 - heaven and earth will pass away, but Jesus' Word will not pass away. But Jesus never says anything about His Word being entirely committed to a book. Also, it took 400 years to compile the Bible, and another 1,000 years to invent the printing press. How was the Word of God communicated? Orally, by the bishops of the Church, with the guidance and protection of the Holy Spirit.

Mark 16:15 - Jesus commands the apostles to preach the Gospel to every creature. But Jesus did not want this preaching to stop after the apostles died, and yet the Bible was not compiled until four centuries later. The word of God was transferred orally.

Mark 3:14; 16:15 - Jesus commands the apostles to preach (not write) the gospel to the world. Jesus gives no commandment to the apostles to write, and gives them no indication that the oral apostolic word he commanded them to communicate would later die in the fourth century. If Jesus wanted Christianity to be limited to a book (which would be finalized four centuries later), wouldn't He have said a word about it?

Luke 10:16 - He who hears you (not "who reads your writings", hears me. The oral word passes from Jesus to the apostles to their successors by the gracious gifts of the Holy Spirit. This succession has been preserved in the Holy Catholic Church.

Luke 24:47 - Jesus explains that repentance and forgiveness of sins must be preached (not written) in Christ's name to all nations. For Protestants to argue that the word of God is now limited to a book (subject to thousands of different interpretations) is to not only ignore Scripture, but introduce a radical theory about how God spreads His word which would have been unbelievable to the people at the time of Jesus.

Acts 2:3-4 - the Holy Spirit came to the apostles in the form of "tongues" of fire so that they would "speak" (not just write) the Word.

Acts 15:27 - Judas and Silas, successors to the apostles, were sent to bring God's infallible Word by "word of mouth."

Rom. 10:8 - the Word is near you, on your lips and in your heart, which is the word of faith which is preached (not just written).

Rom. 10:17 - faith comes by what is "heard" (not just read) which is the Word that is "preached" (not read). This word comes from the oral tradition of the apostles. Those in countries where the Scriptures are not available can still come to faith in Jesus Christ.

1 Cor. 15:1,11 - faith comes from what is "preached" (not read). For non-Catholics to argue that oral tradition once existed but exists no longer, they must prove this from Scripture. But no where does Scripture say oral tradition died with the apostles. To the contrary, Scripture says the oral word abides forever.
Gal. 1:11-12 - the Gospel which is "preached" (not read) to me is not a man's Gospel, but the Revelation of Jesus Christ.
Eph. 1:13 - hearing (not reading) the Word of truth is the gospel of our salvation. This is the living word in the Church's living tradition.
Col. 1:5 - of this you have "heard" (not read) before in the word of truth, the Gospel which has come to you.
1 Thess. 2:13 - the Word of God is what you have "heard" (not read). The orally communicated word of God lasts forever, and this word is preserved within the Church by the Holy Spirit.

2 Tim. 1:13 - oral communications are protected by the Spirit. They abide forever. Oral authority does not die with the apostles.

2 Tim. 4:2,6-7 - Paul, at the end of his life, charges Timothy to preach (not write) the Word. Oral teaching does not die with Paul.

Titus 1:3 - God's word is manifested "through preaching" (not writing). This "preaching" is the tradition that comes from the apostles.
1 Peter 1:25 - the Word of the Lord abides forever and that Word is the good news that was "preached" (not read) to you. Because the Word is preached by the apostles and it lasts forever, it must be preserved by the apostles' successors, or this could not be possible. Also, because the oral word abides forever, oral apostolic tradition could not have died in the fourth century with all teachings being committed to Scripture.
2 Peter 1:12, 15 - Peter says that he will leave a "means to recall these things in mind." But since this was his last canonical epistle, this "means to recall" must therefore be the apostolic tradition and teaching authority of his office that he left behind.
2 John 1:12; 3 John 13 - John prefers to speak and not to write. Throughout history, the Word of God was always transferred orally and Jesus did not change this. To do so would have been a radical departure from the Judaic tradition.
Deut. 31:9-12 - Moses had the law read only every seven years. Was the word of God absent during the seven year interval? Of course not. The Word of God has always been given orally by God's appointed ones, and was never limited to Scripture.
Isa. 40:8 - the grass withers, the flower fades, but the Word of our God (not necessarily written) will stand forever.
Isa. 59:21 - Isaiah prophesies the promise of a living voice to hand on the Word of God to generations by mouth, not by a book. This is either a false prophecy, or it has been fulfilled by the Catholic Church.
Joel 1:3 - tell your children of the Word of the Lord, and they tell their children, and their children tell another generation.
Mal. 2:7 - the lips of a priest guard knowledge, and we should seek instruction from his mouth. Protestants want to argue all oral tradition was committed to Scripture? But no where does Scripture say this.

Matt. 15:3 - Jesus condemns human traditions that void God's word. Some Protestants use this verse to condemn all tradition. But this verse has nothing to do with the tradition we must obey that was handed down to us from the apostles. (Here, the Pharisees, in their human tradition, gave goods to the temple to avoid taking care of their parents, and this voids God's law of honoring one's father and mother.)

Mark 7:9 - this is the same as Matt. 15:3 - there is a distinction between human tradition (that we should reject) and apostolic tradition (that we must accept).
[
b]Gal. 1:14; Col. 2:22 – [/b] Paul also writes about “the traditions of my fathers” and “human precepts and doctrines” which regarded the laws of Judaism. These traditions are no longer necessary.

Acts 2:42 - the members obeyed apostolic tradition (doctrine, prayers, and the breaking of bread). Their obedience was not to the Scriptures alone. Tradition (in Greek, "paradosis" means "to hand on" teaching.

Acts 20:7 - this verse gives us a glimpse of Christian worship on Sunday, but changing the Lord's day from Saturday to

Sunday is understood primarily from oral apostolic tradition.
John 17:20 - Jesus prays for all who believe in Him through the oral word of the apostles. Jesus protects oral apostolic teaching.

1 Cor. 11:2 - Paul commends the faithful for maintaining the apostolic tradition that they have received. The oral word is preserved and protected by the Spirit.

1Timothy 5 vs 17 – Let the elders who rule well be counted worthy of double honour, especially those who labour in the Word and Doctrine.

1Timothy 5 vs 17 – Let the elders who rule well be counted worthy of double honour, especially those who labour in the Word and Doctrine.

Hello Catholics

Let us consider these Chapters and reflect on them and be careful with false teachers who condemn what they don’t understand just like Balaam.[i][/i]

1 Timothy 6:1 – Let as many bondservants as are under the yoke count their own masters worthy of all honour, so that the name of God and His doctrine may not be blasphemed.

Verses3-6 of it says – If anyone teaches otherwise and does not consent to wholesome words, even the Words of our Lord Jesus Christ, and to the Doctrine which accords with godliness. He is proud, knowing nothing, but is obsessed with disputes and arguments over words, from which come envy, strife reviling, evil suspicious. Useless wrangling of men of corrupt minds and destitute of the truth, who suppose that godliness is a means of gain. From such withdraw yourself.

1 Timothy 6 vs 9-11 – But those who desire to be rich fall into temptation and a snare, and unto many foolish and harmful lusts which drown men in destruction and perdition. For the love of money is a root of all kinds of evil, for which some strayed from the faith in their greediness, and pierced themselves through with many sorrows.

But you, O man of God, flee these things and pursue righteousness, godliness, faith, love, patience, gentleness.

My fellow Catholics, we don’t preach wealth and riches in Catholic. We all know those who are guilty and have rejected the doctrine due to greed. Please, withdraw yourself from such people.

Hello Catholics

Let us consider these Chapters and reflect on them and be careful with false teachers who condemn what they don’t understand just like Balaam.[i][/i]

1 Timothy 6:1 – Let as many bondservants as are under the yoke count their own masters worthy of all honour, so that the name of God and His doctrine may not be blasphemed.

Verses3-6 of it says – If anyone teaches otherwise and does not consent to wholesome words, even the Words of our Lord Jesus Christ, and to the Doctrine which accords with godliness. He is proud, knowing nothing, but is obsessed with disputes and arguments over words, from which come envy, strife reviling, evil suspicious. Useless wrangling of men of corrupt minds and destitute of the truth, who suppose that godliness is a means of gain. From such withdraw yourself.

1 Timothy 6 vs 9-11 – But those who desire to be rich fall into temptation and a snare, and unto many foolish and harmful lusts which drown men in destruction and perdition. For the love of money is a root of all kinds of evil, for which some strayed from the faith in their greediness, and pierced themselves through with many sorrows.

But you, O man of God, flee these things and pursue righteousness, godliness, faith, love, patience, gentleness.

My fellow Catholics, we don’t preach wealth and riches in Catholic. We all know those who are guilty and have rejected the doctrine due to greed. Please, withdraw yourself from such people.

Pilgrim,

I'm fine and you are fine hopefully.

Catholics - we are lucky, only Catholics knows and understand what they have

Glory to Jesus, and Honour to Mary. I have not been able to make use of my PC since morning due to Server problem. I hope I will join today's Devotion.

@Oby1,

Now, they have made their intention(s) known - I will henceforth ignore them. Pilgrim and Cgift are so fast to the extent of asking Lawyer if he would be ready to receive mails from them. This is Protestants way They can't go where it matters to preach. Let them go and preach to the Talibans, Burundi, Rewanda etc. As you said, we will ignore now - it does not stop them from being our friends. It is a STOP right now. There are other threads we can discuss with them and not Catholic Church. They better not waste their time again because they will not get any response. As for pilgrim, all the Catholics that visited or discussed in all Catholic threads cannot be more than 15 - 20. So, how come over 70 Catholics writing you? Don't make that claims. Another strategy to discourage people. Though, that strategy cannot work when you are dealing with any strong Catholic.

Oby1:
@Ebos, Carlosein, vies, orobo 50cl and others.

I think is high time we stop all these with these people. If they are not for us, then they are against us.

They are still our friends, but please lets stop replying any of their post. I have stopped reading anything they post, just pretend u did not see anything, because i can see the pictures clear.

Please lets tell others to stop replying any of their post.

All their post is full of hatred and this does not encourage us or any other Catholic faithfuls.

If we can't talk about our faith, i'm sorry i have to sign out from this thread.

What is your comment. (or tell Seun to close every catholic thread)

Oby1, You are right. Pilgrim and Cgift have one intention - to discourage some people in Catholic Church, but millions of them cannot move me. It's better to leave them alone. They think they are working for God. They are making statements that boil my mind here.

@Pilgrim and Cgift,

Check out yourselfs – you compared Lawyer who is still a Catholic with Saul. You said Saul was converted to Christianity, now Lawyer has been converted too? So all Catholics are not Christians and we need to be converted? Pilgrim, Is that the method? Hum!

Listen, don’t even think Lawyer has left Catholic Church, to think so is to make mockery of everything. As for those you claimed to have written you, that is for them. I know Protestants Ocean to fish has been in Catholic Church and they are much afraid to go where Christ wants His real followers to fish. But Catholic oceans to fish have been Muslims, Hindus, pagans etc. Pilgrim, if your intention is to turn my mind against Catholic doctrines, you better not waste your time and energy.

Right now, there are two girls from Christ Embassy who have been wasting their time coming to my house to preach to me for over a month, applying all strategies they could to get me out of Catholic Church. I know it is easier for me to influence and make them Catholics than they making me a Christ Embassy member. The funny part of it is that each time they come; I change the topic to another thing, and the main issue will be forgotten. There was a day I tried to let them know my position and I was mad at them because of a comment they made against Catholic Church. They now reported to their Pastors who have been wasting his time too coming to my house. Just yesterday, the Pastor and the two ladies came to my house and the Pastor requested that I should pay them a visit to their Church. Though, they have been making in vain such request in the past. They have given me over 10 free books written by their founder (Christ Oyakholomo) but I have not read a page and cannot even know where I kept some of the books. One thing, I told the Pastor whatever thing he wants to discuss, he should not say anything against Catholic Church. Honestly, the day he will say anything against Catholic Church – I will politely work him out.

Before I forget, How was the weeked? I hope the weekend was ok for all of us

pilgrim.1:
@ebos,

How body? I was quite occupied all morning; but a few quick comments to some of the things you stated:

Certainly, warnings about people coming after the apostles to misinterpret and change God's WORD abound in Scripture - and that is why the apostles constantly urged believers to "watch" (cf. Acts 20:31 - 'therefore watch and remember').

It's easy to accuse Protestants of an inability to discern the true interpretation of Scripture; whereas the irony of it all is that Catholics have the trademark of DISAVOWING it! How many times have Catholics themselves (including you, ebos) made clear that you do not believe all truth is in Scripture? That is at the micro level; but at the macro level, it is on record that the Vatican officially held the postion of no longer swearing by the truth of the Bible!

See, my dear friend, we understand that the RCC has the penchant of anathemising non-Catholics; and it does not surprise us that you're dyed in the same colour of trying to diplomatically denounce Protestants. Bottomline is that we've come so close to seeing how you guys prefer "Catholicism" above "Biblical Christianity" - and you've proven the distinctions many times already! Between us, Protestants have not sought to argue 'traditions' as much as Catholics have severally tried to slave themselves on "Catholicism".

Please have recourse to the Bible - there's no harm in settling your thoughts on God's sure WORD. It is the diehard attitude of disavowing Scripture that silences Catholics when we discuss Christianity in any thread.

Shalom.

@pilgrim,

Check out all our posts you will discover the bolded statements apply best on Protestants. I have not been decorated any colour because such allegation against Catholics is false and unnecessary. I believe both Catholics and Protestants are worshipping the same Living God but my problem with you guys is the Protestants holier-than-thou-attitude. There is no doubt that more Catholics will make heaven than you guys. Though, my prayer is for everybody to make heaven.

You have a little knowledge of the scripture - interpretation is your problem. I also believe you were converted newly and that is how any new convert behaves. You will get tired very soon and then you will begin to see Catholics as real Christians. I have seen your kind before. This is why I prefer to be delicate with you because my conscious tells me you are certainly a new convert. That was why I tried to know when you were converted in the other thread.

Cheers!

@Cgift,

Jesus Christ teachings on what you just posted were they parables or he meant it literaly to the Pharisees? If Jesus meant it literally and directed it to the Pharisses, why now do you liken the same Pharisees who were not Christians and never believed in Jesus with Catholics who are Christians and believed in Jesus, who even brought Christianity to you? Do you now want to teach a Church (Catholic) that brought you out from your idol worship to Christianity? It is amazing.

@Pilgrim,

If there is any portion of the bible that preaches against Infant baptism, please show it. Again, please tell us how harmful is infant baptism to Christianity or let us know any of the apostles that condemned infant baptism. Please, we want to see it, please show it.

@Orobo,

Lawyer is still a Catholic. However, Orobo, I repeat, no matter whatever thing Pilgrim has posted, please stop calling her witch. It is not Catholic way. Pilgrim, pease just ignore him and I believe he will stop it. Probably, he's not happy reading Lawyer's post.

All the same, Orobo, I don't think it's prpoper to behave such way. I understand we are not teenagers and as such we don't have to behave like them.

Cheers

What keeps surprising me is the problem Infant Baptism pose for Christians. The Protestants just like to disobey the Word of God for the reasons I cannot just explain. To baptism infants, what is the problem or the negative effect it has for Christians that Protestants have continued in vain to oppose? May God have mercy on you people – seriously. The only unfounded reason is that “a child cannot reason, so we have to wait for the child to grow and make decision for himself.” Why not wait for your child to grow and make decision to go school for himself? So, you know what is good for your child? The same way, Catholics knows what is good for their children? Heaven is good for them.

Cgift

Your bible interpretation is the one you saw the word “Except” and quickly quoted it to back your point, but on the other hand, you turned a blind eye to another “Except” used by Jesus in John 3:5. Does the word except not enough to baptize a child hence Christ did not say except a Man and Woman are baptized of Water and Spirit they cannot enter the kingdom of God. If Christ had said so, we would have known that infants are exempted from His Command. But He said NO ONE- so, No One include infants.

The word except you quoted to back your point has a different meaning from the one I quoted? That is the kind of bible interpretation your Pastors are parading. Good guy!

seeu:
Hi all

Each time I remember my life in Christ, I remember my own Church and also sob for some denominations that have led many astray through the way they interpret the scripture. I’m quite sure that Christ will not be happy seeing what is going on among Christians because many have disappointed HIM, and others brainwashed by false teachers. I have carefully gone through the posts and I would rather say some contributions are quite interesting, but one thing that makes me shake head is the narrow knowledge of the scripture so many have, yet we believe we have it all.

Again, my appeal to everybody is to pray for the Holy Spirit to enlighten us when reading the scripture. A lot of things have gone wrong among Christians. All the same, by the Power of the Holy Spirit who teaches us the way, I therefore put all the problems in Christianity squarely on Protestant Churches who have continued to allow themselves be led away by evil inspired teachings from their ignorant Pastors who claim to know the bible more than the Holy Spirit. It is sad that a lot of people have ceaselessly been spreading false teachings, and Jesus must certainly be unhappy to seeing all this happening.

I know that God is a merciful God, and He gives all these Pastors and those that believe in their teachings more chance to repent or be destroyed. The truth is in Catholic Church, and only in Catholic, and not even any of the Protestant Churches can lay claim of close to possessing the truth.

All Catholics should continue with what you have and you cannot get half of the grace of God any other place except in Catholic Church, and only in Catholic you can have a lot of Angels and Saints of God as friends. We have taken them as friends, but the Protestants have other friends hence their behaviour shows that these Saints and Agents of the Living God are strangers to them, and it’s a taboo for Protestants to mention the Angels and Saints of God in their lives as Christians.

May our Mother Mary, all you Saints of God, the Legion of Angels, Pray for us all who believe in their Powerful prayers.

Finally, May God have mercy on who are in darkness but still believe they have the light.

Christianity is governed by our viewpoint by many? The interpretation of the scripture is seen differently by different people and also the change is brought about by time. I know the change will come but quite a longer time and with prayer it will be shortened. At a particular moment of time the meanings of what was earlier stated to be the truth by false preachers change altogether. That change is the essence and we cannot avoid it but adjust to it and be happy because the truth is now known.
In truth, worse than not seeing at all is seeing but not being touched by what we see. Certainly, interpretations and people change to suit themselves by their level of understanding – but the Protestants have no chance of recognizing real change – if they cannot recognize and accept their inability to discern the true interpretation of the scripture. Obviously, problem they will continue to create for themselves and not Christianity itself.

May God Have Mercy on us all

@ Seun,

Please check out this Backslider of a guy, he has come with all his insult against a Holy Man of God (Pope) and Billions of Catholics worldwide. I believe he should be banned immediately. This thread is not for us to come here and insult any person. Please, try and do something about Backslider, he is known for this.

We are not teenagers and who yarn anyhow.

@ Catholics and Protestants

If we go through the statements or utterances of both Catholics and Protestants in all the threads, we will discover that Protestants are more prone to invective languages. Place it side by side, you will be able to discern the kind of products each denomination produces as Christians. This only shows which church is founded by Christ Himself.

Another thing, losers always like to come against winners. Between Jesus and Satan, who like to criticize and attack? Between Christians and Muslims, who like to come against, criticize and attack? Between Israel and Egypt or Babylon etc who like to come against, criticize and attack? Between a Champ (winner) and (defeatist) Challenger, who like to come against, criticize and Challenge? Between Israelites (David) and Philistines (Goliath)who came criticized and ridiculed? Between Catholic and Protestants who like to come against, criticize and attack? It’s on record that losers always prowl and plot the downfall of the winners.

So, my message is clear. Losers always come against winners to criticize and attack. They find it difficult to stay on their own. Now, Protestants identify where you belong.

Cheers to all.

gozizi:
@ lawyer,
puh-leze!! I know your type. Coming here to claim that human exchange has destroyed your faith!! You never start!! Christianity is not for the faint-hearted. Catholicism is for the very brave-hearted, the true soldiers of Christ at the battle front! You've been sitting on the fence all this while so at least your experience here has forced u to take a stand. My advice?? Stand for something, or u'll fall for everything - like u just did on this thread!!

Glory to Jesus, Honour to Mary - Full Steam Ahead!!!!!!!!!

My brother just help and tell him. I have told him and Oby1 said the same.

Oby1

You are updating our knowledge everyday with the Saint(s) of the day(s). That’s so nice.

@viee.

I believe your last prayer came at the right time. It’s a prayer for all of us, especially to Lawyer. It seems you composed the prayer having foreknowledge of what Lawyer was up to. My advice to Lawyer is to recite the prayer everyday – all inclusive. It befits lawyer’s decision at this point.

cgift:
Make una tell gozzi say na english them take write bible no be arabic or latin. So bible no suppose hard am to understand. Jesus said "I AM THE WAY THE TRUTH & THE LIFE, NOBODY COMES TO THE FATHER EXCEPT [/b]BY ME". Anything hard for that one? Jesus use the word "[b]EXCEPT" and he has not given room to ambuity as to whether you can go through another route. So make hin no say bible they difficult to understand. This is 2007 not 538BC

@ Cgift – though, not to debate with you but to call your attention to one particular word you used “EXCEPT”

I think Jesus said 'except' by me and you understand the word except very well. That’s fine and it shows how you (Protestants) interpret the bible. Though, I agree with you that no one comes to the father except through Jesus.

Now, why are you against Infant baptism? The same Jesus Christ said no one can enter the Kingdom of God 'except' (unless) you are born with water and spirit. It is the same except. My brother, you (Protestants) should be careful, your Pastors have brainwashed you guys. So, this except Jesus used in John 3:5 is different from your own except? Some bibles used the word 'Unless' while others used 'except' - but they mean the same thing.

Anyway, I still want to applaud your message to Lawyer. Why saying it has not been your intention to draw people out from the Catholic Church –however, you did welcome Lawyer’s decision to be able to see things clear outside Catholic Church. Sorrow joyful mind of Cgift.

@Lawyer,
When the troubles and trials of this world would come – those without faith would deviate from their true beliefs in Christ Jesus. If you can go ahead with your decision, it simply means how little you know the Word of God. Probably, you have not read anything yet against Catholic Church. I have read more irritating things than what we have been seeing in this forum. However, I know the truth, and you cannot get it outside Catholic Church. My brother forget the crap our friends having been posting here. Million of the craps cannot have any negative atom to my Catholic faith which is rooted in Christ.

Pilgrim ask Cgift, why him go marry before ebos. She na beans? Na de answer wey I get be dat.

As long as the scripture didn't say ONLY bible contain the truth. If you guys can show any portion - then Catholic will believe you people. But last chapter of John says many things Jesus did but were not recorded. Some people listened to the oral messages which were not written down. Why not ask, what might be these oral traditions? No one want to ask.

Cgift,

I don read for one of the threads say de time wey you go marry your wife – na him their people begin list everything wey you go buy, even de money wey dem carry pay him school fees. As de thing come plenty, na him you come vex leave your wife waka with your people. The following day, the lady pack him things run come meet you. Cgift, I no blame you my brother, na so me I go still do when de expenses don plenty pass explanation. After all, no be buy you dey buy de girl, na marriage

@Pilgrim

Abi, you never hear say Cgift go marry while ebos never marry? Why you no wan ask am where e dey for Bible - say Cgift go marry before ebos? But you no wan tell me wetin Pope do you. Ok, I don volunteer, I go apologize on behalf of Pope. Please, Pilgrim forgive Pope, abeg you.

So, if he shoot with AK47, Pilgrim fire back with Machine gun. If he use rocket, Pilgrim go launch Nuclear bomb

Why you married before me, Cgift?

Cgift,

Answer my question - why you married before me. You come dey tell me say you be banker. No be dat one I ask you. Some people don even resign for banking services before

The way you guys dey yab the successor of St Peter – I mean Pope. The Pastors there are honoured but…,

the bible foretold it.

@Cgift
I never marry, you come first me mary? You must explain why?