₦airaland Forum

Hi Pilgrim,

* co-mediatrix
* co-redemptrix
* Queen of Heaven
* Mother of God

You posted the above, and I will address them accordingly.

Pilgrim listen, I have gone through the portions you posted. The portions conversed about mediator. I also understand that Mary was not the Saviour who redeemed us according to the portions. Catholic have never argued it.

Mary as Co-mediatrix - So, when a Pastor prays for you, what is he doing? Mediating or interceding? Remember, we have One Mediator or Intercessor who is Christ, and Catholic and Protestants believe it, and so Mary and the Saints are not supposed to co-mediate as you claim. But I tell you that the Angels and the Saints in Heaven are very much alive and they also pray, nothing like necromancy. Mary is one of the Saints. There will be joy in heaven over one sinner that repents. This show the Saints in heaven knows what is happening on earth. Rev. 8 1-5 also made mention of the angels and the saints praying in heaven with Incense. Also Rev. 6 Vs 10-11 the Saints in Heaven crying with a loud voice O Lord, holy and true, until You judge and avenge our blood on those who dwell on the earth. This is a prayer and it shows they can still pray on our behalf.

Mary as Co-redemptrix – Now, think what would have been our fate today if Mary had doubted or rejected the words of Angel Gabriel. In the OT, when it was said that Sarah would conceive and bear a child, she laughed – an indication of her doubt. When it was told that Elizabeth would conceive and bear a child – Zechariah doubted. You know the consequence. But when Angel Gabriel told Mary that the Power of the Holy Spirit would overshadow her and she would conceive and bear a son who would be the Messiah of the world. Mary humbly believed the words of the Angel Gabriel. What a great faith?

I know if you were Mary, you would have asked Angel Gabriel to show you where it was in the scripture that someone conceived by the power of the Holy Spirit before or to mention one name in the history of Israel who conceived without having intercourse. Generations upon generations would have been victims of your show me in the scripture where someone conceived by the power of the Holy Spirit. Do you think that Mary’s faith did not contribute to redeem mankind? She really contributed because her faith made it possible for us to have the long awaiting Messiah.

Mary as the Queen of Heaven - Revelation Chapter 12. Though, we (Catholics) believe the woman clothed with the sun, with the moon under her feet, and on her head a garland of twelve stars is Mary. If you doubt it, then who is this woman? It is not enough to doubt without stating alternative.

Now, ebos interpretation of Rev. 12. (Quote ebos for now, and not Catholic) shebi you hear?

Verse 4 of it says - the dragon stood before the woman who was ready to give birth and to devour the child but didn’t succeed - Explanation, this dragon was Satan who used Herod to kill the child Jesus but Herod did failed to succeed.

Verse 5 - the woman bore a male child who was to rule all nations and her Child was caught up to God and His throne – Explanation, Mary gave birth to Jesus the King of Kings who rule all over the nations and God gave Him all authority.

Verse 6 – the woman fled into the wilderness, where she has a place prepared by God to avoid the dragon– Explanation,[/i] Mary fled to Egypt with Jesus to avoid Herod killing the Child Jesus.

Verse 13 and 14 – the dragon (Satan) saw he was defeated, he went to persecute the woman who gave birth to the male Child, but the woman was given two wings of a great eagle that she might fly into the wilderness to her place, where she is nourished – Explanation,[i] Catholics believe the assumption of Mary into heaven, her place. Remember, the bible did not talk about the death and burial of Mary, could that be a mistake for a mother of God or the Apostles couldn’t explain what happened to Mary? The portions made the teaching of the assumption of Mary come true.

Verse 17 – the dragon was enraged with the woman, and went to make war with the rest of her children, who keep the commandments of God and have the testimony of Jesus Christ. Explanation, [/i]Catholics believe that Mary is their Mother, while the dragon (Satan) has been using false Pastors and their unaware followers to attack Catholics (who are the children of the “Woman” Mary), who keep the commandments of God and have testimony of Jesus Christ. Catholic Church is the only Church founded by Christ Himself and it dates to the time of the Apostles and can give every account of what happened to Jesus both written and the message passed orally, no other Church can claim this.

Mother of God – If Elizabeth who was filled with the Holy Spirit could address Mary as the Mother of God, who can argue it? To argue it is a clear blasphemy. No long story on this one.

Now My Case with you (stated below)

If you doubt this explanation that Mary is the Queen of Heaven, then narrate your own explanation and tell us who is this woman clothed with sun in Heaven.

Once more, I ask, what is the Pastor doing when he prays for you? Interceding or what?

Was St Elizabeth hallucinating when she called Mary the Mother of God or she was filled or inspired by the Holy Spirit? If she was filled with the Holy Spirit, is it wise to take a queue of someone filled with the Holy Spirit or not?[i]


However, I’m of the view that it might be unnecessary to continue this discussion if you fail to address the three questions. (Very much appreciate you). No harsh words from me, and I’m not used to it. Enjoy!

The interceding or mediating is now a Case Study. I will go through my bible later in the day. So, tomorrow I will engage you again. For tomorrow, we will concentrate on intercessor or mediator. No deviation until the issue is cleared. You can’t wriggle yourself out. I understand the game you playing, instead of you to answer yes or no if the two words are similar in meaning – you are now asking me questions and referring me to my bible just to divert attention from the main issue. No way for you on this. I'm much interested on this than every other thing for now. It must be addressed before we go further

Let's get one thing straight: asking someone to pray or intercede on your behalf is not the same thing as PRAYING TO that person. I never PRAY TO my Pastor or any other person, for my prayers are addressed to God and to Him alone through the precious Name of His Son Jesus Christ.”

The above post by you is a confirmation that while Jesus is the only Intercessor or Mediator, someone can still intercede on your behalf. You just contradicted your argument that nothing like Co-Mediator. Don’t try to evade the main point now because you are trapped. We are talking about mediating or interceding for now, and not PRAY TO. Let us address the issue of Interceding or mediating first. So, what do have to say about the contradiction of your argument? Nevertheless, I don’t have bible here to go through the bible portions you pointed. I will go through it later.

However, Listen Pilgrim “You for don post wetin go make us reflect deeply.” Don’t only hold on for now, you better hold on till thy kingdom come. Please, don’t post anything that will upset me and I will reciprocate by not doing so. Anything you want to post may be the making of the Protestants and does not reflect the true Catholic teaching.

Pilgrim, you said there is a difference between when a Pastor intercede for you and when Catholics pray to Mary. Now, with your statement, you eventually confirmed that a Pastor can intercede for other people. I then asked if a Pastor can intercede, what is the difference between interceding and mediating? I believe there is no difference between the two words. My point, since there is no difference, why must your Pastors intercede for people hence we have Only (One) Mediator which is Christ as maintained by both Catholic and Protestants. Check back your post(s) to get your acknowledgement.

Pilgrim, less than 10 years – Story that still cause confusion. 1 or 2 or 3 etc is the best answer. But not frantic to know it.

Cgift – I have no business to think of her telling me lies because what I don’t know and ask for information – then I have to accept any information provided by her. How can argue whatever thing she tells me hence she has sole (lone) information.

Hello Pilgrim,

There is nothing like making it a personal issue on a simple question I asked, even as I see nothing wrong with it – if it has to be personal for me to get what I need. I’m even amazed that a simple question of ‘when were you converted?’ that need only a simple answer of ‘Two Words’ could be stretched with over 100 words. I believe you would have saved that energy if you had gone straight to the answer.

We discuss together, and as friends I need to ask you a question to get my mind free and you too can ask. Not just satisfied with your answer.

However, you said there is a difference when a Pastor Intercede for you and when we pray to Mary. And you stated that we have only One Mediator which is Jesus. I agree with you. But I will like to know if there is any difference between Interceding and mediating, hence you claim it is only Jesus that can mediate. Again, Catholics worship only God but honour Mary.

Do give answers to my questions because I see nothing strange in it

Pilgrim, answer my question. Ok, it is off topic. When were you converted? You promised to answer me, but went ahead to ask me a question in return. I want to put some certain side by side to appraise you.

@Laudate

Don’t mind some people here. For the fact that we had to put up the annoyance of good attitude to make our points, does not mean we are enemies. We are still friends. But at times, human beings have to change mood even we disagree in our various homes.

Pilgrim, I never prayed that God should take away your life or that of the Protestants. I can’t pray such. I only said may God take the lives of our Protestants – that is a way of transforming it for better knowledge. However, Cgift and Pilgrim, Catholic never taught that Mary is the way. I asked before, and I still ask, when your Pastors pray for you, are they not mediating or interceding? If you answer is no, then mention in one word the action of what they are doing. I don’t want to hear Prayer.

Catholics believe that Jesus Christ is the Only Mediator between God and man, but Mary can still pray for us through Jesus Christ. The first thing to consider here is this, the link between Jesus and Mary, did it end here on earth or did it continue beyond the earth? Can Jesus (be able to) recognize the spiritual voice of the mother anywhere it is? If the link between Jesus and Mary did not end on earth and if Jesus is able to recognize His mother’s voice anywhere then it is appropriate for one to make prayers through Mary to get Jesus. When one prays through Mary, what happened in Cana of Galilee in a marriage feast could happen again. At Mary’s intervention or request, Jesus changed water into wine (Jon2:2-11). There was no argument between the marriage celebrants and Jesus. Mary simply talked to Jesus and the celebrants had better wine at their disposal. The celebrant were in a precarious condition – how to satisfy their guests, but when Jesus through Mary came into the scene, their condition changed automatically. The only Great Madam. Just Shout Alleluia! Just make Mary intervene for you, and you will be singing a new song. Mary is a saint, she is righteous.

However, this does not mean that if you pray straight to God, he would not answer you. He would answer you, but under one condition, “if you are able to get his code number,” but Mary knows His code number anytime. This code number is the state of righteousness and grace. “The prayer of the righteous is powerful and effective.: James 5:16.

The blessed Virgin Mary had already been confirmed righteous by God through Angel Gabriel. The Saints who are also in the presence of God have been confirmed righteous, therefore we can pray through them to Jesus. They intercede for us. The Saints pray in heaven (Rev. 8:3). Mary is among the Saints. We can still pray for one another just as Saint Paul asked his fellow Christians to pray for them (2Thess. 3:1 and Rom. 15:30)

Pilgrim listen, Catholic DON’T WORSHIP MARY. It is only the Living GOD we worship. You are becoming intractable, Pilgrim? When Catholic say Pray to Mary – we simply mean ask, implore, beg or Request Mary to pray for us. Let the word PRAY not confuse you. I know that is where you have problem.

boysgofolo:
honestly, i need to know. this is my first time. someone introduced me to this site,saying it is HOT! and i've finally come. is this how you discuss politics? by throwing insults at one another? is this what he meant by heat?

ok tell me. what have you gained? what have you achieved? what's the point of discussing if u refuse to listen to what your opponent is saying?
try to listen between the lines. hear what he's saying, and what he's not saying. build bridges, not battlements. work to gether. Nigeria is the point, not any tribe.


by the way, i don't believe in marginalization, and i believe the igbo people have a very clear road to development, in and of themselves.

Old member getting a new username, registered just yesterday to deceive who?. Na wah for this nairaland.

Pilgrim of all these women you mentioned and compared with Mary, it’s a known fact that no Angel of God or Prophets addressed or greeted them as being Hail and favoured one, FULL of Grace. I hope you understand the word FULL. It simply means complete, that is every part of Mary from Head to Toe was filled with grace of God. That’s Mary Special. My Mother, she entices me so much and I love her and will continue to do so.

Pilgrim, just try answer me this question. Which year were you converted? Hope you will answer me.

Jesus, the Bread of Life,
taken, blessed, broken, and given away
so that all might be healed and have LIFE.

Father, TAKE the lives of our Protestants who have been led astray by their Pastors

We offer them to You with open hands.
Through the example of Jesus,
teach them to surrender their lives fully to You and listen to the True Catholic Church.
BLESS them with the knowledge that they are Your beloved ones
and that they truly belong to a community of love and mercy.
BREAK open their hearts
so that the seed of the Word and the power of the Eucharist
can be planted in fertile ground, take root and transform their lives.

GIVE these Protestants to the world
with the power of the Holy Spirit to witness to the love of Jesus
and serve Him in each person they meet.

As Christ gave you thanks and fed many,
may we give You thanks for granting these people knowledge
and ask You to multiply it and nurture its growth for your glory.
Amen.

Having prayed for you people. I want you to point any portion of the bible where the Angels or the Apostles ridiculed Mary the way you (Protestants) do.

I'm crying and crying for you - Pilgrim. Join the true Church. I just hope my prayer will make impact. Cheers!

My brother went to Winner Chapel - the Pastor their was telling them to wave their offerings to God. I mean, it was bad. They were trying to see how much you wanted to contribute. So, people are forced to donate more by using this tactics. They should be preaching more of salvation than miracle and material things. They have not impressed a good number of people. I love them, but their Pastors remain to be called anointed men of God. That is my humble but strong advise. Let the truth be told always. Cheers!

Leah said daughters will call her blessed but not all generations (only daughters, men excluded). Now, to answer your question, Mary’s blessed entice me more. However, I thank God that you now acknowledge that Pastors becomes co-mediatrix when they pray for you. That is my only joy for today. Pilgrim, have agreed with me. Thank God, there is hope. Again, Pastors don’t need to be called all those names we give our Mother Mary because they are not worthy to be called such. Mirror of Justice, House of Gold, Tower of Ivory, Spiritual Vessel, Vessel of Honour, Mediatrix of all Graces, Morning Start, Mother of Divine Grace, Ark of the Covenant etc. Haba! which Pastor deserves even one of these names?

I can’t understand if a Pastor is not mediating each time he prays for you. That makes him Co-mediatriz.

But Mary prophesized that she would be called blessed, besides, being privileged to be the mother of your saviour makes her special. Pilgrim, you think of it. If God had favoured her, who are we to ridicule her? Oh, you think Jesus will be happy if you dishonour her mother? - Pilgrim, you will one day discover the truth we have in catholic Church

Pilgrim, I hope you no dey jeje now Abeg, soft pedal.

My brother read Luke Chapter 1 vs 9, the Priest Zechariah was burning incense when Angel Gabriel visited him. Again, Revelation Chapter 8 verses 1-5, the angels in heaven were burning Incense while praying to God. Go and read them well.

Pilgrim more songs for the true Church

The Catechism, I was among the Seminarians few years back. I didn’t teach that, and nobody taught me that too. Even Limbo, we mean a place where the souls of the just who died before Christ where kept. Talking of Abraham, Issaac, Jacob. The just men in the Old Testament. Now, Limbo don’t exist hence Christ has released them and open the gate of heaven for them, but we point them out to our Catechumen till date. So, it’s not like they dropped it. Get your facts well.

Unbaptised Infant going to purgatory dropped? My own Catholic is deep. We never taught that in Catholic Church. Bring any Catechism or Link written by an approved Catholic author to prove it. Stop saying what you don't know.

Any Protestants that read the last Chapter of John don’t need to ask Catholics if this or that is in the bible. It is written, not everything Christ did was written down. The world itself cannot contain it. The bible recorded the few things the Apostles did, but after the Apostles – their successors were still men of God, but what they did were not written in the bible. They passed them orally to their followers (Catholics) to practice. So, bible is just a guide, to assist us because of our ignorance. No portion in the bible that says you should practice only what you see in the bible. Though, Catholic gave them the bible, without us, there would not have been any bible today.

So, my Catholic friends, keep on identifying your model Saint(s), Catholic remain strong despite every criticism. An evidence that the gate of hell cannot prevail against it.

I went for Pope Sylvester II because he was bold enough to address the abuses in Episcopal Office. He had to flee, yet he remained strong.

kellorah

Which of the St. Peters? tell us one particular thing - why you went for him.

Crying and crying

Catholics are happy to be the very generation(s) prophesized by Mary to call her Blessed. I’m a staunch Catholic – for life. So, I want all Catholics in this forum to proudly identify themselves and their model Saint(s). Mine is Pope Sylvester, his life on earth enticed me, and that is why I’m Sylvester today.

Pilgrim, Cgift, are not part of the generation that will call Mary blessed. It’s a pity that my friends are not part of us. I will cont inue to cry for them until they join us. I have never seen any Angel deriding Mary – the Holy Mother of Jesus.

@Laudate

I can understand, just because the Link criticized Igbos, so, it must be hastily posted, and backed with a sham caution. After, they will indict ebos of reading meaning to it.

The author of that article is not an Igbo man, even if he is Igbo, he is a paid Agent. Narrating what happened recently by a paid Agent without pointing out the remote cause (the gang against Igbos during 1967 – 1970). Nigerians ganged against Igbos, fought and killed them, and you expect Igbo man to have complete trust for such people any longer.

The Igbos should apologize to whom? Minorities? For joining forces against Igbos during the war? For declaring their properties abandoned? Rubbish!

I have said it before, that those who always point out that Igbos lack visions or not united, completely lack knowledge and are not interested to let the truth be told. There was a yeye Conference in 2005, and all Igbo delegates demanded for additional one state, but what happened after everything? Lack of unity and vision killed it, abi? No, Airports, few LGAs, No Refineries – Igbos lack of vision is the cause, abi? We have heard it enough.

Igbos are truly marginalized – lets put our facts together to convince anyone who care to believe.

STATES IN ALL THE REGIONS

South East 5 States
South West 6 States
South South 6 States
North East 6 States
North West 7 States – stealing our own state
North Central 6 States + FCT – Old boy na 7, because Lagos has been a State even when it was the capital. Open your eyes and see the game of development there. To your tents Oh Israel!, then Abuja belong to who now?.

As for Local Govt Areas, the South East has less than 100 Local Govts, while the other Regions have over 125 LGAs each. Now the entire States in Igbo with 95 LGAs, while only three States in the North have over 115 LGAs, yet some people believe that Igbos are not marginalized, and always point unfounded reason of Igbos not united. We know the more States and LGAs, the more employment opportunities and developments.

There is no Int’l Airport in Igboland, but other Regions have one or more Int’l Airport(s). Again, Igbos have two oil producing States and Anambra State making it three now, yet no single Refinery or Liquefied Natural Gas (Plant) i.e. (LNG) in Igboland. But South South has two Refineries, Port Harcourt and Warri – they also have two Liquefied Natural Gas (Plant), Bonny LNG and Brass LNG which is going on in Bayelsa State. The North also has Refinery in Kaduna while South West has Olokola LNG going on in Ogun and Ondo States. We all know that each Refinery or LNG generates over 1,500 employment opportunities (Skilled, Semi-Skilled and Unskilled). However, considering the Nigeria system – the Host Communities, States and Regions are given preference in job opportunities. Where is South East?

We have forgotten the unlawful detention of Uwazurike to date, while his counterparts outside Igboland have been released. Onovo (Igbo man) was the most Senior Police Officer and would have been the Inspector General of Police, but was denied that position, and we were told later that since he would be retiring next two years, no need of giving him the position. Rubbish! Tafa Balagun was the Inspector General of Police from 2003 – 2005 and Sunday Ehindero 2005 – 2007, even their predecessors Smith and Co. So, what would be wrong if Onovo had succeeded Ehindero and be in that position for two years?

Finally, let me not mention the poor social amenities in Igboland before I commit suicide here.

+osisi:
get thee behind me

One thing you don’t understand. – when Satan gets behind you, it will be tragically ruinous. He will push you from behind and you cannot control the fall. It is better Satan remain in front of you, you will be positioned to know when he will attack or push you. So, leave Winners chapel now, they have failed to impress God.

Just forbear, pilgrim. We will be comfortable and feel happy if you only encourage us with your song. However, your being rascally never outweighed your civility, and will never have your slight shift in mind. You were a Muslim, and I guess you were just converted. Probably, less than two years? So, feel fine always.

Because we carry papa dem go win the cup, na him make u dey compare the coaches - wey the least person for our Golden Eaglet is 22 years. Dem play with small boys. Watch out, before 10 years now, our boys go tire, but the oyibo dem go still dey wax stronger for pitch. E go take more 10 years before most oyibo players go reach the age(s) of most of our Eaglet wey play dem.

My brother worship with Winners church and they have not been fair enough in their demand. I think, God is not happy with them.