₦airaland Forum

4Qbitch:
I think hell fire is designed specifically for African Christians becos most of them r so daft.

How can we be so religious and our churches filled with multitudes, yet not even up to 0.0000000001 percent of us practice what Jesus instructed?

How can a pastor swim in luxury in a third world country where millions of children (including his congregation) cannot feed up to 2 times a day?

How can we ve billionaire pastors in Nigeria and white men would b d ones vaccinating our kids against polio, feeding our displaced brethren in the NE and giving scholarships?Meanwhile most of our churches build schools that poor members ve no access to attend... What's d point?

So why are referring to them as Christians? U said it urself they are practicing what Jesus Christ preached.

So what makes them Christians, is it so u can collective bash Christianity?

If I stand In a garage does that make me car?

Rapmoney:
Your conviction that animals have no souls lies in the usual religious dogmas we have all around us.

Tell me the characteristics of living things that man has which animals do not!

How do u know humans have soul.

4kings:
Huh?, ponder about what?
The Bible didn't give a solution, it just stated rewards and punishment.
*******
Times then, were worse filled with much wars, oppression and so on with hardly any consequence and order like we have now, as we know from history. So times now has been a bit better.

Your premise lacks knowledge or is purposely derailing, either I don't do such "arguments". Quote me when you have learned otherwise.

4kings:
Huh?, ponder about what?
The Bible didn't give a solution, it just stated rewards and punishment.
*******
Times then, were worse filled with much wars, oppression and so on with hardly any consequence and order like we have now, as we know from history. So times now has been a bit better.

Your premise is lacks knowledge or is purposely derailing, either I don't do such "arguments". Quote me when you have learned otherwise.

4kings:
Huh?, ponder about what?
The Bible didn't give a solution, it just stated rewards and punishment.
*******
Times then, were worse filled with much wars, oppression and so on with hardly any consequence and order like we have now, as we know from history. So times now has been a bit better.

Your premise is lacks knowledge or is purposely derailing, either I don't do such "arguments".

Rapmoney:
So you believe animals do not have souls?

Am trying to help u answer your question,how do u know animals have souls.

Rapmoney:
This is one question I have been pondering on. In Nigeria, it's very easy to label someone as an atheist, making it very clear that many Nigerians don't even know the meaning of the word 'atheist' or 'atheism'. It's a common thing in this part of the world to see people as atheists when they try to question some religious dogmas that we have been made to believe for so long. Before you read further, it should be noted clearly that I'm not an atheist.

Different religious ideas abound in the world that give diverse descriptions of how humans started and how humans will end their journey. This has given me that personal conviction that the 'Supreme Force', who many see as a man with white beards, sitting above the clouds, does NOT even recognize any religion! The 'soul' is one vital aspect of the various religious ideas which is believed by many to leave the body at death. While some think the soul will face judgement thereafter, others think this same soul will continue to hover around.

If man knows where he's going to when he dies, how come he still doesn't know where the souls of animals go to when they stop breathing? To argue that animals do not have souls is just too crappy to accept. To ever nurse the feeling that the souls of animals die with them when they stop breathing is just too hypocritical to consider, when it's very clear that humans are animals too. Respiration, Reproduction, Feeding, Movement, etc are all common traits among humans and 'animals'. If we want to say the Supreme Being created man specially with the powers to think and create, and for that reason, should be entitled to a soul alone, animals think and create too! Look at the birds; can you weave the nests they make? Not even with your hands that can hold things like the prehensile tails of monkeys!

It seems man doesn't really know what becomes of him after death because if man knew, he would have used his knowledge to discover what happens to the 'souls' of animals that we all can see exhibiting life and emotions as we do in their various ways.

Readers' opinions are welcomed.

From where you knew animals have a soul ask where they go after death,pretty simple.

4kings:
Everything said in that verse, has been happening centuries before the Bible was put together.
So its not a sign, but just a statement of the obvious.

Going forth one would imagine we would value live and.nature more and make the world a better place but that's not the case,this isn't just a sign,it should have u ponder over what the Bible really has the offer.

Weah96:
My hypothesis is grounded in common sense. And I don't go around parading it as the ultimate truth.

In fact, I'm even willing to concede ignorance and say that I don't know. Keep in mind that ignorance doesn't imply gullibility. That someone doesn't know something doesn't mean that he will accept ANY answer.

Sorry for late answer,

You can't even explain a quarter of science using common sense and here you are using it to search for the creator of the universe.

All I can say is Goodluck.

Tunababa8v:
To point out first, I am not an atheist and l dont
plan becoming one. But there are questions that have been giving me sleepless night since l became aware of the words of the bible.
I had painstakenly read the whole bible from genesis through to revelation,but there are two questions l have been wanting answers to,which most preachers and christians have not been able to answer to my satisfaction.
Why l am putting it on this forum today is to read people's view on the matter,and perhaps,l can get genuine and unbias answers.
These are the questions
1) The bible made mention of the fact that,at the end time,the trumpet shall be blown and the son of God would come back to pick his obedient followers.
We all know we are at an advanced technology age where astronauts now visit moon,mars,venus,and the rest.What would happen to me if per adventure l am on one of these planets when the trumpet would be sounded?,Will l also hear the trumpet? and if yes,are you saying moon,venus,mars are part of the world the bible reffered?
2)The bible said at the coming of christ,the heaven shall be torn up and the whole world would see the son of man(Jesus christ) coming with a host of angels.
Now how possible is this? because looking up to the sky,l can only see a fraction of the whole sky,how possible would it be for someone in canada to see Jesus coming from the sky at the same time as someone in Nigeria? or is it possible that he would appear in multiple places in the sky at the same time?
please answer

I have to say and surprised, really more like disappointed, you read the bible through and through,several instances where Jesus resurrected the dead, God created everything out of nothing and this is what puzzled you?

How did you believe everything else the bible wrote?

Weah96:
Life can only bring forth life. So tell me, is your god a non living thing? If not, then where did he get his own life from? LOL

Am not in disapproval or support of the op, that said tell me why you strongly believe your hypothesis of the origin of creation is no doubt the right one, even when I didn't know God I wasn't this careless with my words.

APCsupporter:
Good morning everyone. I have a little money that I really want to invest. After thinking for so long, I have decided to build my own church because I also want to have my own private jet and Range Rover. I will be the pastor.


As a pastor, how do I make my members to believe EVERYTHING that I tell them whether it makes sense or not? Like what do I need to do to make them believe that I can help an amputee to grow a new limb?

How much does it cost to hire people who will be giving testimonials to the church members?

I also intend to make my own version of the bible. How do I go about it?

For the first time, members are not to pay tithe. They are to pay trithe I.e, 30% of their monthly income.

Do I need to poor chemicals on my water to make them believe that it is holy?

How much does it cost to hire people who would vibrate while I cast out demons off them? Alternatively, how much do I need to hire people who would pretend to be deaf so that I would "heal" them?



Thank you for your anticipated answer.

The price is your salvation.

urchcoded:
Hey peeps, I've never posted anything on NL but reading my bible open mindedly yesterday i came across the account of creation in Genesis... My question now is how come there was an evening and morning from day 1.... Since the sun, moon and stars were created only on the fourth day... ##confused##

Without disproving or approving of your assertion lets try to think this through in a very simple way.

Say, after he created the sun, moon and stars, he had to command them and and basically tell them.when to "operate", they didn't have knowledge on their own. Essentially 24 hours isn't what the sun says it is but God put it there to aid humans.

Time isn't dependent on your watch, regardless of whether you have a watch or not time still moves but this example relates with man. Same way God has no need of sun and moon to tell time, he had a sense of time and "programmed" them to fit it.

Hope it's clear.

Reiyvinn:
Pra-pra-praise the Lord!
Ha-ha-halleluia!

Allahu Akbar!

That's how you get swayed from your region of common sense into an aura beyond your scope of thinking; into a realm of absolute bewilderment cum wonder and stupidity cum faith right there from your TV screen.

With several kilometres of distance and in totally oblivion to your very own existence, they still command some measure of admiration, obeisance, adoration and of course financial loyalty on your part toward them with full authority. How are they doing it for crying out loud?!

You have unwittingly created for yourself an untouchable god-like being, almost infallible and possessing all veto powers of an Almighty God; sitting on the very throne he claims to serve; smiling to the bank each and everyday of his life as a result of a well planned out investment yielding in colossal returns.

Oh Humanity, when wilst thou awaken?

I shake my head pitifully whenever I recall some personal experiences with certain personalities I'd prefer not to identify for security reasons but at the long run, I wish to slap some measure of brain juice into the heads a many millions out there who are wallowing in the quick sand set right before them by all these wolves in sheep clothing.


Televangelists have found a new stock in trade that pays. An investment that capitalizes on the fact that you were born and brought up a blockhead void of common sense and rational thinking in order to fill their stations and pockets will wags of cash yet make you feel good about it. They have discovered that it pays better for man to remain stuupid than to give him education.


My Dad who's now late happened to have been friends with one of the now-famous Televangelists [name withheld] many years back when he was next to a nobody. He started a ministry at Iyana Ipaja back then and even his brother who was a civil servant then had told him to stop wasting his time and look for a job.

One thing spectacular about this man, as my Father said, was the fact that he was a strong willed atheist but still believed in setting up a ministry that would eventually make him see wealth because frustration was already setting in as his certificate was laying waste at home (my Dad knew him to that extent). Jeez! Funny isn't it?


He didn't have the slightest faith in the "God" he was preaching to these poor souls but he believed that by making this God appear to these broken-spirited persons through him, he would chunk in millions into his account. Guess what, it worked.

Ranging from coincidental occurrences often mistaken for miracles to psychological placebo effect "healing" thus playing tricks with the congregations' belief system, he has successfully become the man you now know him to be. Whenever a situation arose where a problem persists even after "deliverance", such a case never got to see the light of the day before being swept under the carpet. It wasn't until the tactics changed again and it became alarming that my Dad who was already old by then opened up to me and told me all he knew about that man. Staging "miracles" with people who pretend to have one ailment, problem or another, announcing fake testimonies, ad infinitum and paying them for it just to sway the entire populace into further deception became a working strategy that speedily multiplied his growth by thousands, and it is still very effective as we speak.

When one speaks bad about such a man, he is at the point of being lynched for "blasphemy against the man of God" and subdued to silence.

The man of God can never lie, no. He can never commit fornication, no. He is right all the time, so whoever that dares to bring an allegation before him is wrong, a devil and a hater.

What then is the state of the people, you may ask?

They are so deep into these foolishness that whoever tries to show them their foolishness looks foolish to them...

It is indeed true that it is easier to deceive a man than to convince him that he has been deceived.

Today I could make multi-millions by concocting a story of my miraculous Paul-like transformation from a vile and demonic seven-headed dragon atheist into a sheep-in-the-fold Christian or Muslim under different pseudonyms and I will be best-seller in two weeks!!! I guarantee it!

The likes of Creflo Dollar, TD Jakes, Oyedepo, Adeboye, Zakir Naik, e.t.c could be doing that, would you know? Hell no! But you would have bought for them enough Private jets, Universities, Estates with your hard-earned money while you wallow in abject poverty and stupidity and they at the other end give less than half of a tenth of a rat arse about your lives, your beliefs and your God!


Receive sense oh Earthlings, in the name of whatever you deem cool, amen!

An advice, speak in terms of condemning fraudsters who capitalize the gullibility of some folks which include atheists, Muslims, etc. People don't need religion before they scam people, they never did they never will.

"Oh humanity,when whilst though awaken", this is kinda funny to me, awaken to what exactly?

HCpaul:
You are taking things personal.
The impact of Google to mankind cannot be denied but that of God is only a documented one.
Well, if you go for God gud for you but within your inner mind you know that Google count the most.

Let us try to handle issues here in a lenient way.

"Taking things personal","let's us try to handle issues here in a lenient way" are these statements referred to me?

Why say this if you scared to mention names? No place in this world for cowards except behind their computers.

HCpaul:
There are some things that are not just necessary. I don't expect Google to know my thought because many of them may not be sane. I just need it to give me informations about knowledge.

Between Google and your God, which one has supply intellectual information to mankind.

The Bible is 50 percent history, 30 percent story and 20 percent fiction. It is nothing but a multifaceted novel.

Indulge me if you want,
What have you soo greatly done with this knowledge from almighty google.

0ubenji:
ADAM & EVE

Contrary to popular belief, Adam and Eve were expelled
from Eden not because they ate the forbidden fruit of the
tree of knowledge of good and evil, but in order to prevent
them from eating from the tree of life (both forbidden trees
are in Genesis 2:9) which would have made them eternal.
God doesn’t like competition! Here is the verse (Genesis
3:22-23): “And he said: Behold Adam is become as one of us,
knowing good and evil: now, therefore, lest perhaps he put
forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and
live for ever. [23] And the Lord God sent him out of the
paradise of pleasure, to till the earth from which he was
taken.”

----------------------

JONAH WAS NOT SWALLOWED UP BY A WHALE


We all know the tale of Jonah and the whale(since we were kids)… but how well
do we know it?
Well enough to know that he wasn’t eaten by
a whale? It was no mammal that ate Jonah – it was a huge
fish – though its type is not mentioned. Of course, I am
presuming that any smart xtian reading this list would wanna question my assertion.

Well, here is the eye opener: the book of jonah recorded it was a fish(tho of an unmentioned type). This confusing "whale" term came from the book of Matthew 12 vs 40 where it was used with reference to that story. The bone of contention here is the translation errors involved.

Yet again, I know some religious fanatic reading this( the types that would refuse to fault the bible for anything) would still disagree, in an attempt to debate that both bible references mean the same thing.
Just chill, Sir/Ma, A whale is not a fish. #Q.E.D

----------------

THERE's NO SUCH THING AS RAPTURE

The “Rapture” is not in the Bible! Despite being believed by a
large number of christians (many of whom also believe
that only that , which is in the Bible can be true; Yea rite! "Rapture" aint in the bible.)

it was actually invented in the 1600s by one Cotton Mather –
otherwise famous for murdering women by strangling them
to death (by hanging) in the Salem witch trials. The term in
the Bible commonly mistranslated to the word “rapture”
actually comes from the Greek ἁρπάζω (harpazo) which
actually means “caught up” or “taken away” and it refers to
one person only (Philip).

----------------

P.S: Opposing views are welcomed. Atleast open your bible and read thoroughly(and understand in context) before coming forward with a debate.

Everything I state here is not in confirmation with your "theories"

So Adam and Eve got sacked from Eden to prevent them from whatever....
how does that help me worship God more?

Jonah was shallower by a whale,dolphin, tilapia? How does help, I would to know like to know that too.

Rapture, shouldnt we be concerned about serving God and humanity to the best of our abilities? Jesus rarely talked about Judgement and rapture and the likes, he was preview to all the info from the beginning of the world, that should tell us all something.

Let's get our priorities right and stop creating more needless divisions

Joshuabase:
Isn't it convenient that evidence for his existence was allegedly burnt?

I know Josephus and Tacitus mentioned a Jesus character in their works, but the account wasn't of first hand experience.

Who are the others that mentioned Jesus in history? And lived around the time he was allegedly Alive?

If someone really wanted to push the Christain agenda the "human way" don't you think they could just as easily as they wrote the bible also write setup some fake accounts and propagated it just to satisfy your likes? After all "they" wrote the bible, it's not too far fetched to assume they could have easily predicted doubters at some point in time.

Even if you obtained an "eye witness" account of the matter it still would prove nothing and the onus would lie on you to believe it or not,after all no one is alive from 2000 years ago to really validate that account and it could have easily been fabricated. How would you know?

That's the reason why the bible beseech us to worship God in faith.

You may be thinking but am afraid you are not applying wisdom, you have a lot to learn boy/guy.

HCpaul:
Am totally in support of her decision. I just wonder if religionists in Africa will be smart enough to start worshipping Google because it is more than a central hub for information repository, it is a deity.

Google is mankind saviour in the age of information. Most religious fanatics aren't happy about this intricate fact since they know that information will open the eyes of people and make them to know how they've been deeply scammed by religion.

Once again, Google is a saviour to mankind.

Go google!
Now tell me how this google helped or is helping you.

AnonyNymous:
As you read in my opening post, virtually EVERY church I've been to has one image of 'Jesus' or the other. When I visit my Christian friends' houses, I see portraits of this man in their homes along with some inspirational quote or whatever. If you want to pretend as if that image of 'Jesus' is not used by Christians worldwide then keep pretending.

Whoever you are referring to, they are not Christians prove otherwise or drop this, it's almost like you have nothing to say.

AnonyNymous:
Are you confused?

Any bible verse to consolidate what you saying about "Christians" putting up portraits of "Jesus"?

If not why are you calling them Christians?,so you can create this thread and denigrate Christianity right?

I maybe wrong so enlighten me.

nairabacks:
I'm doing this not for myself alone. I'm doing this also 4 generations after me. I believe some old and foolish ones will learn something too.

Ecclesiates says there's a time for everything. The time has come now

Now you are quoting scripture left and right to suit your purpose hope I can remind you that the scriptures say vengeance is of the Lord.

ifenes:
The Old Testament law? Ain't you a New Testament follower who lives under grace? You wanna use the Old Testament to justify your wicked intentions. Typical Christian.

Preach.

Seun:
Pastor Adeboye's recent fatwa on "whoever introduces tribalism to RCCG", which is confusing because their list of leaders shows that tribalism has already been introduced to the church, reminded me of my concerns about the morality of the Ananias and Sapphira tale.

According to Acts 20:32 - Acts 5:11, "there were no needy persons among [the Christians]. For from time to time those who owned land or houses sold them, brought the money from the sales and put it at the apostles’ feet, and it was distributed to anyone who had need." This was obviously not a sustainable way to do things because eventually, all the rich people in the church would have been reduced to poverty.

Anyway, "a man named Ananias, with the consent of his wife Sapphira, sold a piece of property; with his wife’s knowledge, he kept back some of the proceeds, and brought only a part and laid it at the apostles’ feet" Now there's a lot to like about this couple. First, that they were willing to lose their property to help the needy in the church. Secondly, that they consulted with each other at every step of the way, and acted as one.

But this couple retained a sense of financial responsibility, so they decided to be keep some of the proceeds of the sale for themselves, to take care of their kids, etc. However, God (or someone who knew what happened), told Peter what they had done, and Peter shamed them before the church by revealing their secret. So they cried, repented, were forgiven, and brought the rest of the money to the apostles that evening.

Haha. Just kidding. Peter, the guy who denied Jesus three times and was forgiven, had them killed by the power of the Holy Spirit of God, who is love. First he killed Ananias, and somehow nobody told his wife about his death. Then he killed Sapphira for backing up her husband.

Imagine the sorrow of the parents who brought up Ananias and Sapphira and instilled in them the values that made them successful enough to own property and pious enough to embrace Christianity. Imagine the inconsolable wailing of their kids who would now have to rely on the charity of the same church that killed both of their parents, in order to survive. Consider the eternal burning in hell that awaited the couple.

How can anyone read this story and not be horrified by it? How can you open your mouth and say "God is love" after reading this chilling tale?

You thought hard probably and came up with this, I patronize nairaland......

I wonder what it says of me.

4kings:
So u agree that hell exists?

What do you think.

4kings:
Hmmm
So u don't believe in the doctrine of hell

Fear is an absolutely bad method of any form of permanent indoctrination. Whenever people outgrow their fears the results are usually catastrophic and irreversible.

Sure hell was mentioned a couple of times here and there but it isn't a doctrine and that's not what I preach nor should any Christian.

4kings:
Hmmm
So u don't believe in the doctrine of hell

Fear is an absolutely bad method of any form of permanent indoctrination. Whenever people outgrow their fears the results are usually catastrophic and irreversible.

Sure hell was mentioned a couple of times here and there but it isn't a doctrine and that's not what I preach nor should any Christain.

bootstrap:
Driving out of church today (dunamis abuja) long traffic out, and i stopped for few secs for people to cross the road and the lady behind me, who also just left church started honking loudly and screaming at me. Was on the virge of screaming back when i just decided not to fall to her level. Took me real effort to not just park and give her a piece of my mind.

Whats my point? churches preach so much about loving God.. Yada yada yada... And almost nothing about loving ur neighbor no more. Disagree with me all u will, but we nigerian Christian suck in morals. It doesn't take an Einstein to knw this.

Patience, tolerance, honesty, truthfulness, meekness, kindness. If right after chruch smone cannot give a lift to a fellow church member going same way, how much more a total, non Christian stranger on a week day

Question: how can we Christians (nigerians in general) drop our useless, face value, empty spirituality and for once just be moral. If smone tries to cheat u... And so what? If everyone is jumping the queue, or beating traffic, and so what, must we too? (ps: i really really get pissed when people, Christian with a big a.s.s sticker in a hold up just drive off the queue/road just to beat everyone else tho)

Here is my proposal, (suggestions are highly welcomed). Starting a movement #JUST DO RIGHT!!

Ps: this also goes for Muslims and traditionalists, just that Christianity is my immediate constituency

# lalasticala, seun

Why are you still conferring on them the name "Christians"? Does standing in a garage make someone a car?

raphieMontella:
The fear of hell..jst it..once they are able to conquer that fear and ask questions..they wud begin to see much more clearly..
I wonder why an eternal burning hell as punishment for the wicked never showed up in the old testament...
They noticed this and knew a place of eternal suffering wud cajole pple into their fable and instill fear if one was to err..

Jesus didn't dwell on hell and punishment of sinners,he advocated for love and peace amongst people. Not a single case of discrimination whatsoever. All these "preachers" who preach hell and eternal damnation are not Christians, because that is not what Christ preached and that's not the Gospel. Funny enough anytime someone wants to make a "point" they don't refer to what Jesus did and how he lived, but how some self proclaimed Christians are twisting the word.

Makes me wonder what their end game is.....

HardMirror:
I am shocked at the hypocrisy and lack of faith of Christians!

I have discovered beyond doubt that Christians actually don't Believe in God!

A girl had leukemia and the dad refused to follow the doctors recommendation, instead he kept his daughter at home and was believing God's report that his daughter was healed. The daughter died and everyone came for his head. Even Christians said he was a fool.

A fool for what? For believing God?
For trusting God?

A pastor dies and his pastor brother and family starts praying for his resurrection. Christians on nairaland called them fools, said he is dead and can't return. What?! Can't God raise the Dead? Did the dead bones of Elisha not raise a dead man? How much more the name of the Living Jesus Christ! Can't it raise the dead?

A man was bitten by a snake in Idu-Osun, Osun state some 10years ago. He insisted on staying in Church and praying. He died after about 6 hours in the church. I recall how everyone, including me (I was a christian then) called the man a fool. Said he was testing God?
So trusting God has become testing God?

Why do we call people fools for trusting God?
Does it mean we don't believe God can do the miraculous again?

What would be a pastors reaction if a BEHEADED person is brought to his church and he is asked to pray for the dead person to come to life?

Do we truely believe God or just playing along just in case God exists?

Makes me wonder...

There was a centurion whose servant was sick and possibly at the brink of death, Jesus was amazed at his faith because the centurion asked Him to just say the word and he believed it would heal his servant. His servant would have been heal regardless because he exercised some faith first of all but this was even different he saved Jesus from walking or riding to the place to lay hands,the servant was heal "quicker".

God made plants and put the ability to heal in them, unbelievers eat them and obtain healing whether they have faith or not because God has already put it there,same way rain shines on the good and bad. Some believers turn to these same herbs and thrusting God's word that they would heal them. Some believe that they don't even need herbs,they just pray and they are healed. Others have faith they won't fall sick at all. God doesn't judge people with lesser faith but he rewards those who have taken time to grow in it.

Lastly note that saying you won't get sick with your mouth isn't what faith is about, you can trick man but God can see your faith.

raphieMontella:
t wud prove what religion and the bible claim to be true

Tell me how it would prove the bible is true.