₦airaland Forum

MaxInDHouse:
You see what i said?

Guy you only want attention and i've given you enough if you don't agree with what Jesus and his disciples quoted there's no need arguing further.

The person who wants attention won't come up with facts.

You're the one who has never provided a single fact to back up your claim.

I repeat, Emphatic Diaglott and Kingdom interlinear (Both Watchtower works) don't have the name Jehovah in any NT.

See screenshot below how Rom 10:13 was translated, what did you see? Lord not YHWH or Jehovah.

And to crown it all, Watchtower made it clear that the use of the name isn't IMPORTANT as God doesn't see the need to preserve the PRONUNCIATION.

You can't eat your cake and also have it.

We are JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES!

You can call yourself anything but the truth remains the truth as the saying goes "You use scripture to form doctrines but you can't use doctrines to form the scripture."

MaxInDHouse:
Even if i do you will not accept it because you're bent on discrediting God's personal name!

If your evidence is solid, of course I will.

I'm not follower of Satan who will see fact and reject it.

And everyone who calls on the name of JEHOVAH will be saved.”’ Act 2:21

For “everyone who calls on the name of JEHOVAH will be saved.” Romans 10:13

Here Peter and Paul quoted the prophet Joel:

And everyone who calls on the name of JEHOVAH will be saved; For on Mount Zion and in Jerusalem there will be those who escape, just as JEHOVAH has said, The survivors whom JEHOVAH calls.” Joel 2:32

I'm glad you said IT'S A QUOTE and I've given you more than enough evidence why no one will UTTER THAT NAME during the time of Jesus not even when both Jesus and His disciples were under the watch of the Pharisees to find little thing to accuse them for.

Also, your quotation came from NWT only, yet you mention another translation below for comparison. Why?

Lastly, both Peter and Paul were talking about Jesus Christ so applying OT to Jesus isn't new. Only a dishonest person will say otherwise.

Check your KJV you will notice that the LORD there is in capital but trinitarians changed all to seem as if there's no difference between the two persons David referred to at Psalms 110:1

JEHOVAH declared to my Lord: “Sit at my right hand Until I place your enemies as a stool for your feet.” Psalms 110:1

This is also quotation.

I'm expecting you to provide the NT manuscripts that was discovered to support your claim.

YHWH never appeared in the NT, how many times will this be hammer into your head.

Emphatic Dialogue and Kingdom interlinear never used JEHOVAH in any place in the NT.

You can only proof me wrong be providing the manuscripts that contain the name.

The divine name is spelt out so whether we know it's original pronunciation or not God has a PERSONAL NAME!

So, how will you make use of the name YOU DON'T KNOW HOW TO PRONOUNCE?

That's impossible.

Meanwhile, USAGE IS DIFFERENT FROM Quote

Compare this with what you quoted above:

Acts 9:15 "But the Lord said to him: "Be on your way, because this man is a chosen vessel to me to bear my name to the nations as well as to kings and the sons of Israel."

Acts 1:8 "YOU will be witnesses of me (Jesus) both in Jerusalem and in all Ju·de´a and Sa·mar´i·a and to the most distant part of the earth."

Revelation 12:17 "So the dragon became enraged at the woman and went off to wage war with the remaining ones of her offspring, who observe the commandments of God and have the work of bearing witness concerning Jesus."

Mark 9:38-39 "John said to him: "Teacher, we saw a certain man expelling demons by the use of your name and we tried to prevent him, because he was not accompanying us." But Jesus said: "Do not try to prevent him, for there is no one that will do a powerful work on the basis of my name that will quickly be able to revile me;"

1 Corin 1:2 "I am writing to God’s church in Corinth, to you who have been called by God to be his own holy people. He made you holy by means of Christ Jesus, just as he did for all people everywhere who call on the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, their Lord and ours."

These are direct usage of Jesus name because it's the ONLY NAME for us today and Jesus is the one we need to witness to.

Jehovah isn't important that why God didn't bother to preserve its pronunciation.

MaxInDHouse:
Ọmọ you can't change the truth the Hebrew names changed to Joseph or Benjamin today is not the original pronunciation in that language because there was no letter "J" in the original Hebrew language so if they don't want the translations JEHOVAH then they shouldn't have named their most cherished city "JERUSALEM" and funny enough their president is named "BENJAMIN"

You still don't get.

This isn't about Translation.

AYO in Yoruba is JOY in English

Both aren't the same in pronunciation.

Hebrew Yeshua can't be written as Yeshua in English because they're of two different languages.

Do you now see the reason why nobody can rightly condemned the name JEHOVAH or JESUS in Israel?

Problem with Jehovah is that it was WRONGLY FORMED while Jesus was TRANSLATED just as AYO will be translated as JOY.

So nobody is talking about TRANSLATION HERE.

Secondly, the name Jehovah isn't IMPORTANT for us to use because if it does, the pronunciation wouldn't have lost. Watchtower agreed with this.

So, evidence throughout the NT is that the name Jesus (because we're discussing in English if our discussion is in Yoruba I'll use JESU or in Hebrew I'll use Yeshua) is the ONLY NAME GIVEN UNDER HEAVEN THAT MAN MUST BE SAVED.

The same name is what Jesus said people will be witnessing and people will be persecuted on.

So, just provide single place where the NAME JEHOVAH was used by early Christians for anything. That's the challenge you still couldn't take up since.

So if it's important that we stick to the original pronunciation then there's no reason for translation of those names!

Just like I said, without correct pronunciation you can't pass any message successfully.

For instance, if AYO in Yoruba is pronounced as AJO an English might not know you're talking about JOY.

So if the name is so important God wouldn't have allowed the pronunciation to be lost.

That is the fact.

---

It's evident you don't understand the POV on this thread but let me make simpler for you.

1. Nobody is arguing about letter 'J' being used
2. The discussion isn't about translation

The discussion is centred on:
1. The usage of it, as there's no any known NT manuscripts with name we have today.
2. Jehovah is even a wrong formulation Yahweh is more accurate.
3. The name isn't important as Watchtower explained.
4. Throughout the NT the ONLY NAME used is JESUS.

Hope I've come down to your level this time?

MaxInDHouse:
You're missing the point in what you're quoting!

The quotation is straight forward English.

The name isn't IMPORTANT if not God would've preserved the pronunciation.

What is the ORIGINAL PRONUNCIATION of the name Jesus?

If you asked any Hebrew man, you'll get the pronunciation.

If it's important that we stick to it's original pronunciation then there's no reason why we should translate or transliterate it.

Olodo....we translate because we switched from one Lang to another if you are a native speaker of Greek or Hebrew, you will pronounce the original.

I am Akeem if i travel to Brazil and i happen to have a friend he can't think of translating my name nah he must pronounce it exactly as i told him.

Firstly, this shows that you know the PRONUNCIATION of your name. You can't tell someone what you don't know in the first place. Pronunciation is key in communication because you can say something that will lead you to trouble by pronouncing it wrongly.

In fact, like Yoruba lang signs are used to differentiate two words that have the same spelling. Why? To pass the accurate message.

Secondly, even given that you know the pronunciation, you're just telling the Brazilian your name not that you want to pass a message to the Brazilian in his/her native language.

Lastly, If you want to pass any information you must TRANSLATE to the native language.

Or in NWT Yoruba version did it retain the English Jehovah?

You're just dancing around because watchtower also informed that "...and Bible names generally have been translated rather than transliterated." Awake! 1973 March 22 p.27

You can keep dancing around but truth shall set your free.

That's the import of the comment you kept quoting!

It's not!

"Thus it is evident that the original pronunciation of God's name is no longer known. Nor is it really important. If it were, then God Himself would have made sure that it was preserved for us to use..."

The importance are:
1. God original pronunciation is lost
2. If the pronunciation can be lost
3. Then it means it's not important for us to USE.
4. If not God would've preserved it.

This isn't a big grammar just plain English.

MaxInDHouse:
Even a Jew was shocked after reading those verses because it's clearly stated that there is a divine name so if you don't want it we know why!

Liar!

Let me refresh your memory again:

"Thus it is evident that the original pronunciation of God's name is no longer known. Nor is it really important. If it were, then God Himself would have made sure that it was preserved for us to use..."

Direct from the horse mouth

MaxInDHouse:
Exodus 6:3 NAME of the Almighty God.
Psalms 83:18 NAME of the most high God.

God that there's no DIVINE NAME there you just added to it.

You can't deny that there is no name in those verses you can only pretend to continue arguing because you don't want to admit that there is a DIVINE NAME!

Like I said, there no DIVINE NAME, it's just your own delusion.

So, just like your organisation says if the name is so IMPORTANT God would have PRESERVED the pronunciation.

You're the one who is looking for what is not.

The New Testament is so clear on THE NAME Christian should operate under.

That's why you can't provide just a single verse where something was done with the name Jehovah.

It never even appears in the first place.

MaxInDHouse:
Exodus 6:3; Psalms 83:18

"I appeared to Abraham, to Isaac, and to Jacob as El-Shaddai—‘God Almighty’[a]—but I did not reveal my name, Yahweh, to them." Exo 6:3

"Then they will learn that you alone are called the Lord, that you alone are the Most High, supreme over all the earth." Ps 83:18

Can you point out where you see Divine NAME in the two verses even from your NWT?

MaxInDHouse:
So there is a divine name which Jesus said he made known in his time! John 17:6, 26

Who called it DIVINE NAME?

MaxInDHouse:
So there is a DIVINE name that we need to know but it's pronunciation is what caused the argument shey?

Who called it Divine name?

Watchtower has answered you "Thus it is evident that the original pronunciation of God's name is no longer known. Nor is it really important. If it were, then God Himself would have made sure that it was preserved for us to use..."

Then the name Jesus also has issues since it's not what his contemporaries called him!

That means your ONE LINE OF THOUGHT has dashed rock because Watchtower disagree with you @color: "'Yahweh' is obviously a transliteration, whereas "Jehovah" is a translation, and Bible names generally have been translated rather than transliterated." Awake! 1973 March 22 p.27

Remember, I tutored you yesterday on this just that you're a dull student

Well, Watchtower is wrong to say Jehovah is a translation the same lie you put forth yesterday Jehovah is also a transliteration but formed by inserting the vowel of Adonai into the Tetragrammaton.

MaxInDHouse:
Now you're making a lot of sense!

That's it!

Let me drop the Watchtower statement since you're afraid to mention what went wrong about the name Yahweh that Jesus didn't use.

"Thus it is evident that the original pronunciation of God's name is no longer known. Nor is it really important. If it were, then God Himself would have made sure that it was preserved for us to use. The important thing is to use God's name according to its conventional pronunciation in our own language." The Divine Name That Will Endure Forever p.7

Here Watchtower is telling you to your face that the Divine Name isn't necessary today.

That is why the only name used throughout the NT is the Name Jesus, that is why:

1. It's on the basis of Jesus name that people will receive remission of sins.

2. It's on the basis of Jesus name True Christian will be persecuted.

3. It's on the basis of Jesus name people were healed.

4. It's on the basis of Jesus name we are to BE HIS WITNESS.

because salvation is found in no one else and there is no name given under heaven that men will be saved. Acts 4:12

So anyone doing anything outside Christ name

MaxInDHouse:
So who is the father that Jesus was praying to?

Is it a less mighty god?

The Father is Almighty God

Jesus is Almighty God

Holy Spirit is Almighty God.

Which means the Three are ALMIGHTY GOD.

TenQ:
Do you concur that a Working Interconnection of several Systems is a reasonable proof of an Intelligent mind behind the controlling program of the systems where the controlling program is Non-Tangible?

I'm interested in this particular question.

Janosky:
Emusan Shame on you LYING miscreant.

Still waiting for your screenshot as usual.

Janosky:
Emusan go & learn the context of the usage of those Greek words in your Bible.

Provide evidence you are not a dunce for once.

If it sure for JaNosense he'd have provided screenshot as usual but for now, he has nothing to provide

Janosky:
Greek Eschatos is different from Alpha & omega.

The context of their usage is different.

Emusan capping your GIBBERISH.

Whenever they want to lie you read something like @color part

Provide the meaning of Alpha and Omega here.

Janosky:
Emusan Go & learn the difference between those Greek words- Eschatos, Alpha, omega.
Stop capping rubbish.

You can't provide the meaning here

Janosky:
Greek eschatos is different from Alpha & omega.

Dunce

So what is the meaning of Alpha and Omega?

JaNosense

Janosky:
Emusan LYING miscreant.
Mark 12:29 Aramaic Bible & The Passion Translation, NWT.
Emusan LYING miscreant,go and confirm.

When you read John 17:26, would Christ say LORD at Mark 12:29?

John knows that Christ NEVER said LORD @ Mark 12:29.

Christ will say whatever was written in the book He grew up with.

So it's Yahweh Jesus says and not Jehovah

Janosky:
1. Nobody used the name 'Jesus' while he was on earth.

They can't use it because Jesus is an English word

Everyone used God's name YHWH while his only begotten son walked on earth.

Lying liar!

2. Yahweh is NOT more accurate.
Emusan Stop capping your GIBBERISH.
Nobody knows the correct pronunciation of YHWH.

Yahweh is MORE accurate than Jehovah.

Watchtower attested to this.

3/4 There is no complete Bible manuscript dating back to before the 1st century.
However, there are fragments of New testament manuscripts with the tetragrammaton YHWH dating back to 1st/2nd century.
This is evidence that God's name was actually in the New Testament manuscripts but was removed by copyists for obvious reasons.

Lying again like your father the Devil.

No known NT manuscripts dating back to third century that have the Name not to talk of 1st/2nd centuries.

5. John 17:3 & Roman 10:13 (copied from Joel chapter 2) is in your Bible. Put it in your brain. Christ, Paul & John believed that.

It's not COPIED oponu.

It's quoted and APPLIED to Jesus.

The challenge for you is to provide where Jesus used the name JEHOVAH and where the name Jehovah was used by the early Christians for anything.

MaxInDHouse:
The only thing that went wrong is with people who want to claim that the son was actually praying to himself but deceiving his audience that he was talking to someone else whom he referred to as the father.

At this level, you still don't know that Jesus actually prayed to the Father.

JEHOVAH is different from JESUS!

The Father is different from Jesus! That has been established years before Russell will even come into the scene.

As it is now, as established so far on this subject:

1. Jesus didn't use the name Jehovah.
2. Yahweh is more accurate than Jehovah.
3. NT writers never used the name YHWH based on the manuscripts in our possession today.
4. Any translation that use the Tetragrammaton in the NT made mistake.
5. The only name given by which men will be saved is Jesus Acts 4:12, Rom 10:13, Phil 2:9-10

Afamsi:
The essence of the post is to stir up hate against Israel... You have failed. Christians love everybody but hate crime which you and your religion together with other hamas sympathizers promote and take delight on

Me Hamas sympathizer

How does my post relate to this your reply?

Afamsi:
No true Christian will ever hate Israel

As a true Christian you're not even to hate anybody including your enemies.

MaxInDHouse:
Of course it surely appeared if Jesus quoted Moses using the name {Deuteronomy 6:4; Mark 12:29} then something is wrong somewhere!

Now you agreed something is wrong somewhere.

So what are the possibly things that went wrong?

I have a Watchtower statement I'll drop after you answer that question

MaxInDHouse:
Jesus prayed to his father {John 17:6} whose name is JEHOVAH! Mark 12:31 compared to Deuteronomy 6:4

Another evidence that Jesus never used the name and that the name isn't important for us Christian today.

The only Name given by which man can be saved is the name Jesus. Acts 4:12; ROM 10:13, Phil 2:9-10

He never prayed to TRINITY!

Nobody is talking about Trinity here.

The name YHWH never appeared in the NT.

MaxInDHouse:
There's no need for any if you're sincere to yourself as long as the both aren't what was used by the people back in Bible times!

Smile...

Now you know that there's different.

Well, for now YHWH never appeared in any known OLDEST NT manuscripts in our possession today.

So how can Jesus used it?
If the name is so special, why will it be omitted?
If God actually inspired the NT writer and the name is so important, God would have ensured the presence of the name.

MaxInDHouse:
Of what essence is manuscript when we have found the solution?

To know how God used the writers to pen down His words.

If the manuscripts we have today spells out directly that Jesus is Yahweh even you won't contest it.

The purpose for which God inspired the writers of the book is for his worshipers to form a global family of peace loving worshipers {Isaiah 2:2-4; Micah 4:1-3} the letter doesn't have any value if you're not able to fulfill what the scriptures promised! 2Corinthians 3:6

With the NWT God's promise of a global family of peace loving worshipers has come true!

Out of context as usual.

You can't lies against God.

If the name doesn't appear in the NT, claiming it appears there is lying against God no matter how angelic you portrait your organisation.

MaxInDHouse:
Now you're talking the name Jesus was coined out

No! Was TRANSLATED.

just as Jehovah that's the point.

Jehovah was coined because the Four Tetragrammaton can't be pronounced.

So you can't kick against one and leave the other!

Only if you understand that there's different between TRANSLATION and FORMULATION.

Jesus is a translation

Jehovah is a formulation/coined.

Learn learn

Aemmyjah:
Is it proper to use the KJV as reference when it comes to whether God's name should be in certain places of the Bible?

No! You use MANUSCRIPTS.

KJV is just a TRANSLATION just as NWT.

MaxInDHouse:
Neither did any of his disciples called him by the name Jesus!

Yes! because they aren't English speaking but they called Him Yeshua/lēsous

If our conversation is in Hebrew or Greek you can't read Jesus anywhere.

MaxInDHouse:
Since you're not answering

Is dishonesty to say I'm not answering.

then my own Jesus called my God by the name JEHOVAH! Mark 12:29 NWT

Well, that's according to perverted NWT no other translation has that.

Jesus can't pronounce a name COINED by A Catholic Mork thousands of years later

Aemmyjah:
Tyndale version
Wycliffe
...

So what is your point exactly?

because I don't understand where you're coming from

MaxInDHouse:
The NWT uses the divine name where it correlates to what is inspired in the Hebrews Scriptures

This is where the manipulation comes in.

First you have to proof that New Testament writers used the Tetragrammaton.

But as we know today, no known oldest NT manuscripts have the name but Lord or God.

so there is a careful approach in the translation work to verify where Jehovah applies

It you're being careful then it means you're injecting your own manipulation.

That is why Watchtower came out to state the criteria they use but under scrutinized it's evident Watchtower was biased as they didn't follow their own rules.

but since you think Jehovah is the same as Jesus how can you figure out such errors in the old translations?

I didn't think so I only clarified your statement.

As you claimed "Anywhere LORD appears in the scriptures is YHEWH that should be there" then you shouldn't argue Jesus being Jehovah.

First of all there must be an agreement that the father totally differs from the son if you're not interested in that then your research will hit the wall!

That has already been established even before Russell was born.

The points are:

1. Was the name YHWH used in the NT?
2. Jesus didn't make use of YHWH anytime.
3. Did any English versions that insert Jehovah or Yahweh in the NT made mistake?